Caray, Caray!

I'm going to be out for a long stretch tomorrow to see Parsifal, so I know there will be lots of interesting things for me to read when I get in at dinner time!
 

Rubi didn't have a happy ending, at least for the main character. She was disfigured and lost the love of everyone.

Teresa also wasn't a super happy ending for the main couple. They did end up together, but they seemed more resigned than happy.
 

No, but that's all they can ever think of. By "they", I mean the "creative" writers. Life isn't a fairytale. But since we're talking about tv novelas, of course it's gonna usually end with an ideal ending for our heroes typically involving marriage & a terrible tragedy for the villains (which actually upsets me 'cuz they're usually my favorites).

One sad ending I can think of is from Dona Barbara. Anyone heard of it? It was a Telemundo series that didn't end well for its main protagonist, being Dona Barbara: she didn't get the man & she died alone. But at least she got her revenge at the end. :)

~ posted by not-a-dan-fan
 

It seems the general rule is that good guys get happy endings after lots of suffering; bad guys get bad endings after living it up for a while; and anti-heroines like Rubi, Teresa, and Dona Barbara (and quite a few anti-heros who don't get the tn named after them, but are usually played by Marcelo Cordoba) get a mixed bag/uncertainty-- some bad, some good.

Not-a-Dan-Fan: Dona Barbara was recapped here on Caray Caray if you ever want to look back at those recaps. The good guys, Marisol and Santos, did get a happily ever after.
 

I thought Dona Barbara was an excellent series; thanks for bringing that up.

Personally, I found Marisol annoying and thought it was super-creepy that Santos got it on with both Marisol and her mother. I actually had a lot of sympathy for Barbara and was cheering her revenge against the monsters who raped her when she was an innocent young girl.

Rubi did not deserve a happy ending and I thought Teresa got off lightly at the end. I think that the most logical ending (which wasn't shown on US TV) was where she ended up alone, at a new job, preparing to seduce her new boss.
 

Wow UA, you had me with those shots from the Ring Cycle! Beautiful shots of Debbie Voight and Bryn. I don't know as much about TNs as most of you guys, but I do listen to a ton of opera and it seems all TN plots run along operatic lines. Operas have way more unhappy endings though. I don't think the general TN audience would tolerate having the protagonists die, no matter how tragically or heroically. It seems the deaths of los guapos often have more to do with an actor leaving the cast than with genuine plot trajectory. But the happy endings are hard won and often scrunched into the ultimos capitulos. Just my uneducated speculation here.
 

I think that most people want to see justice triumph even when it's only on a screen. It feels hopeful.

My theory about tragedy in opera is that it makes for much better music as well as the overarching general themes of tragedies we are meant to learn from.

I will ultimately do an essay on opera and novelas which -- I hope -- will confound those who consider novelas to be lowbrow entertainment.

BTW, here is a shot I wish were in that montage. Jay Hunter Morris is a great Siegfried, both vocally and physically.
 

I want the fairytale. That is why I watch telenovelas and Hallmark movies. There is enough drama in real life. I like the escape. I like knowing that the protagonists will win in the end, but I enjoy seeing the journey that includes the ups and downs.
 

In the late 90s novela "Desencuentro" the protagonist Luis (Ernesto LaGuardia), a fireman, dies in the line of duty. Victoria (Daniela Castro) ends up with the villain (Juan Ferrera). I heard that this novela suffered from bad ratings in Mexico and so the ending was rushed.
 

Wow, Sue455, that is interesting to know. Can you think of any other examples of heroines ending up with villains?

Juan Ferrara is another actor I added to the list for a retrospective.
 

In “Te Sigo Amando” and “Baho La Misma Piel”--the endings were not the typical—wedding, sunsets, happily ever after.

I like the journey, the romance, but an ending that's not contrived. I completely dislike novellas where the protagonists spent ¾ of the novella separate and fighting and to magically end up together at the last minute.

I find the Argentinean protagonists to be flawed individuals that we know in our everyday lives; I empathize easier to their situations than the Mexican protagonists.

Myo-


 

I think it's interesting that we often say we want our protagonists to be more human/to have flaws. But the most heated debates and most passionate cases made against tn heroines and heroes here on CarayCaray (and I suspect on other tn blogs) happen when the heroine or hero show weaknesses of character (too emotional; too weak; cowardice; fear; jealousy; anger; naiveté; stubbornness; etc). In other words, when they show that they are not perfect beings, but flawed humans.

What is it that the audience really wants? If we don't even know, I suspect the writers can many times have a tough time figuring it out. So we see them doing many different things with the characters throughout the story—some things we enjoy, other things we hate. But at least the writers feel that they can guarantee the audience one thing—a happy ending—no matter what all came before that.

 

La Pola was a gripping TN with an excruciatingly unhappy ending which of course was unavoidable since it was written by history.

India had an ending that was probably unsatisfactory to many viewers since it featured 2 perfectly hopelessly in love couples (both resulting in pregnancies and healthy births) ultimately separated by an arranged marriage and of course all sorts of extraneous forces never to be reunited.

For some reason Univision elected to air both of these on Telefutura rather than the its more widely available parent network.

Carlos
 

Carlos- I really enjoyed India because the first happily in love couples eventually find new love, despite being unfairly separated initially, and have their happily ever afters. Those protagonists were very flawed and paid the price, but also got rewarded with love at the end.
 

I'm with netgirl. I want complete fantasy/fairy tale. I watch these things to escape.

Was Dona Barbara based on the Romulo Gallegos book? I know nothing about the show. If based on the book, did it stick pretty closely to it?
 

"Desencuentro" was a hit in Mexico. Unfortunately, the ending was planned. I usually don't mind sad endings if they make sense but I didn't like it there because I was rooting for Luis and Victoria from begining to end. Juan Ferrara wasn't a villain though, he was the leading male. Juan Peláez was the villain, he ruined Victoria's father and incriminated Andrés (Ferrara). Andrés had become hardened after the death of his son and his wife's depression and attempted suicides but he wasn't evil, just a bit of a jerk sometimes. Victoria wanted vengeance and planned to seduce him and ruin him and he eventually changed due to his falling in love with her. The novela was mainly about them. Luis was a co-lead and Victoria's romantic interest, he did for her what she did for Andrés but his intentions were always sincere. They writer built both couples and since both were very popular and the audience was divided they had to pick one in the end. Victoria married Luis, he died, she had his son and eventually married Andrés, who waited for her and got to have a second chance in life. The sad part is that I Victoria would have been much happier had Luis survived.

The most tragic ending in a novela has to be Pueblo Chico, Infierno Grande. I don't think anybody there got a happy ending and half of the cast died. Possibly every side story ended tragically. The villain wasn't one of those you enjoy and love so her death was also sad. Even with all of that, it's still my favorite novela from Jose Alberto Castro (Rubí, LQNPA). The story is based on the life of his great aunt and the setting is a small town in Michoacán in the 1920's. I guess since the story is based on real life events he didn't want to change them into a happy ending. The opening sequence shows the characters in a play, with the town as their audience, this is to show that this is a tragedy that will be contemplated by the whole town. The story is made of 150 half hour episodes, so, by today's 1 hour standard it would be only 75 episodes. It's short but it doesn't need more.

Jarocha

 

Sorry, I meant to say that the villain in Pueblo Chico, Infierno Grande WAS one you enjoy AND love. One of the most memorable characters in telenovelas. Her death was very, very sad.

Jarocha
 

Thanks UA for a great topic of discussion. My vote is for happy endings, but I don't like them hurried up and sent to the altar in the last 10 min.

LXV--Interesting that although there are many parallels between opera and telenovelas, we get much more invested in a 4-5 month long, nightly telenovela and we get to know the characters intimately (sometimes more than we want--a la Dion & Hissadora) and get involved in their fates--as we would a long novel.

An opera, even with a great story line, isn't spoken, it's sung, so right from the opening scene, we have a deviation from reality. We can easily take a hero's (Manrico) or heroine's (Mimi) death, because we've only invested 2-3 hours in the story and the characters and besides, we want to hear the music, the voices, the sets, the costumes. Their deaths don't affect us as much, whereas a tn protagonista would.

I've pretty much enjoyed all the tn's I've watched. Knowing the protagonista couple would end up together helps me get through the rough parts of their separation. But being a romantic at heart, I need to see a lot of lovin' togetherness to balance the apartness. One exception was Un Refugio para el Amor. I was able to tolerate the separation, although we were all furious at Rodrigo's inability to go ahead and divorce Gala.

What I object to, and other people have commented on, are contrived and hurried endings just to get TO the End. Maria Isabel comes to mind--she did a very quick turn around and forgave Ricardo in just a few minutes and to a certain extent, Sortilegio did the same, too as Alex wooed MJ all over again and someone else shot the villain.

One tn that had an ending that disappointed and disgusted just about everyone was La Esposa Virgen, as UA pointed out. They made so much to do about the strong attraction and relationship between Jose Guadalupe (our own Rogelio) and Virginia (Adela Noriega) that when it didn't turn out that way we felt cheated. (I could say that it was a Mejia production and that's all that needs to be said. I understand he got a lot of criticism for how he ended it--despite audience feedback. I guess the original audience had stronger feelings for Sergio than Jorge).

UA-Nope--Do *not* want to see the villains win, ever. They need justice and punishment and there's no way we can mete it out. The writers have to.

Carlos--Happy to see your mention of La Pola. Life in those days was certainly unpredictable and muy, pero muy duro. Throw the church and race relations into the political mixer and no one is safe.


 

I have never seen a novela that didn't have a wedding at the end & it looks like AB is going to do the same.
It would be nice to see one end differently.

I didn't see Dona Barbara but I saw the book at the bookstore & had the mistaken idea that I could read it. I couldn't even get past page one, it even has a glossary for all the regional words.
 

Para Volver a Amar also had a mixed bag for its characters' endings. Some ended up with the love of a man, others didn't. What was important was that each of the women learned to love herself-- that was the real love story-- and they each succeeded.

Variopinta- Cuando Me Enamoro didn't end with a wedding. Since it's the same writing/directing/producing team, they might go the same route in AB.
 

I want a happy ending with the villains getting their just rewards.

Querida Enemiga was a bit different (from the other telenovelas I have seen) in that the heroine got to choose which galan she wanted rather than the one she started out with. That was fun, especially since she chose 'Chef Haut.'
 

Thanks Jarocha. It was so long ago that I saw Desencuentro that my memory of it was faulty. What I remembered was Victoria blaming Andres for her father's death so I was under the impression he was the bad guy. I totally forgot about the real bad guy! And wasn't Victoria's ex in on it too? I seem to remember someone being killed and the body being placed in the wall of a building under construction.

Anyway I also wanted Luis and Victoria to live happily ever after. I participated in a Desencuentro discussion group when it aired in the US. No one liked the ending. Y ¡pobrecita de Maru (la hija de Luis)! She lost both her mother and father.
 

Vivi- I thought PVAA had one of the best TN endings I've seen.
 

Sara C., Doña Bárbara was indeed based on the classic Venezuelan novel by Romulo Gallegos.

By an amazing coincidence they began airing the telenovela a couple of weeks before my advanced Spanish class began reading the novel for discussion in class.

There were a lot of differences. DB indeed loved Santos Luzardo in the book, but they never had sex. I loved the book and the wonderful descriptions of the llanero life in Venezuela. The "cowboys" who worked on Santos' hacienda were in the novel, but they didn't really go into their personal lives that much.

DB was raped in the book as well, but not graphically, since it was written in 1931. I don't remember her ever getting revenge on the rapists in the book.

To sum up, I loved both the book and the telenovela, but there were lots of differences.
 

Thank you, Novelera!
 

Hey there, Emilia--You are looking GOOD, girl. Is that Crema de Concha de Nacar you've been using? I like you in that beanie, too.

I forgot one other tn where the sweet young second stringer ended up alone--without Big Ed: La Verdad Oculta. Big Ed did end up with the right woman, but we were sorry that for some reason there weren't enough nice men to go around for Elsa.

Vivi--No more bodas in CME. There had already been enough of them, I guess. It was cute to see Jeronimo and Renata with a whole pack of kids stomping grapes as the camera faded out!
 

I take it back about Elsa and LVO. Elsa did have a nice man who wanted her, Mauricio the architect; but Elsa only wanted Big Ed and chose to go off and start a school or something.
 

I thought I was a sophisticated person who could handle nuance in tns. But I agree with Vivi that sometimes viewers are unsure what they want from their protagonistas and galans and argue endlessly about it. I'm watching La Patrona and honestly, despite how cowardly Alejandro was to Gabriela, I want them together in the end because of the multitude of evil that was done to separate them. I just want Alejandro to be 'Mr Rochestered', blinded, harmed or otherwise humbled,but alive, to pay for his cowardliness and unbelief in Gabriela.

I also think they have the best chemistry of any tn couple since Fernando Carrillo and Adela Noriega in 'Maria Isabel'. I'm fine felices para siempre endings because tns usually make the fps hard won.
 

Great topic, UA, and I loved the opera pictures. BTW, I was at the Met Opera Parsifal today, maybe we walked right past each other. What an amazing afternoon (almost 6 hours!)

Many of the novelas on Telemundo don't end in weddings, especially the drug related ones. And Sin Senos No Hay Paraiso had a shocking ending. The protagonist definitely made a lot of poor choices, many due to the environment in which she grew up. The end was tragic in an operatic way, and wasn't disappointing at all. Muñecas of the Mafia also had bad endings for most of the 5 girls. Again, this was fine, as they all made bad choices. So there's a lot of moralism at play. But I agree, in the traditional telenovelas, where there's a main good couple, we all like to see a happy ending.
 

I have one opinion about endings -- if the writers had done their jobs correctly, then I have no problem with the ending being a happily ever after wedding, but if the telenovela is written where a different type of ending is more justifiable, then i'm fine with that. for example - MEPS vs. Pura Sangre -- I had a really hard time with the over-the-top, budget, what budget wedding at the end, then I saw the original ending for Pura Sangre where the lead couple ends with a hug at a gravesite in the cemetery which I found was much, much better ending for the intense storyline for the novela. Then again, I was a fan of As the world turns for years. The producers and writers asked the fans what they wanted for the final episode. And they wrote it so it was a typical day in Oakdale where everyone who deserved a happy ending got one and then Bob turned out the light and said "Good night". (The soap started with Nancy saying "Good morning" so this was the best, and most respectful, way to end the soap.)
 

Hombre, what theatre did you go to? I was at the Union Square Regal.

Since my family has had to deal with drug addicts I don't watch the drug-themed novelas. I suspect they're being made to attract more male viewers, but the violence in them is such a turn-off. I also understand that those can't be expected to have the standard happy ending; that would make no sense whatsoever.
 

UA, I didn't go to a theater, I actually saw the opera at the Met Opera House in New York live. Very exciting, although of course I couldn't get the closeups you get from the theater broadcasts :)

I totally agree that the drug themed ones appeal to a different audience, and that may be why they don't always have happy endings.
 

Are you a season ticket holder? They sent out the new season info this week.
 

Every year I subscribe to a mini series of 4-5 operas. I live in New York, so I have to take the bus each time (you can see how crazy I am!) Usually my wife goes with me, and she visits our daughter who lives in Brooklyn. I wish I could subscribe to a full series, but 8 times a year is too much. I have to wait until June for the miniseries info to come out. I'm very excited about the new season, though, as James Levine will be back!
 

I meant to say I DON'T live in New York! (I live in Baltimore). When will I learn to proofread :)
 

I do a Friday series and will have to make the decision fairly soon. Whichever one I choose I will have to make an exchange or two since not all of them have all selections I want to see. Will update when I can. I will also provide the HD list when I do the novela/opera article.
 

Hombre deM: Jimmy is really coming back? Wow. I thought I had seen his last performance at Die Walküre at the Met in 2011. How exciting.

Anita: I think with operas, the supension of disbelief is part of the package despite trends towards more naturalism in acting and fewer fat sopranos. But in opera, the more you know it, the more affecting it becomes. In a TN, the thing unfolds, the suspense builds, we develop our loyalties and hatreds and then justice prevails; we get a wedding and feel great and ready to do it all over with a new story.

Operas improve and grow deeper with each seeing/hearing because of the music. It carries with it the ineffable, nonverbal emotion. In plots that make not one lick of sense (Così, for instance) the music is the plot. Wagner makes his point through leitmotif and Puccini actually uses it for narrative. I don't know how many times I've listened to Butterfly and in the final scene, Pinkerton cries the first "Butterfly" and I'm thinking, "you jerk, too little too late" And then he does it again, and I start to realize what she's really done, and by the third cry I am collapsed in a heap. It only takes a few notes to fill out the entire emotional gamut of an opera. I don't think TNs hold up to repeat exposure, although I confess, I've watched Alborada (complete) about 4 times and got emotional about the ending each time.