Caray, Caray!

This is GREAT, Urban. I was just thinking this morning that I hadn't seen a weekend discussion in a while. I think this one is particularly relevant. Now, on to reading...
 

I felt like TdA turned south, too...but it really didn't have that far to go. LOL
 

Interesting topic Urban,

Quickly browsing through,the only one I can think of was Corazon Valiente
on Telemundo; it took an atrocious turn for the worse for at least 2 months. Always enjoy your comments and recaps.
 

I thought Una Familia Con Suerte also got rather nasty towards the end. Same producer as Porque el Amor Manda. I doubt that I'll watch his next project.
 

La Tempestsd definetly,it was good at first then Univision ruined it all together.

And Tda was always rather crappy,it lacked sufficient tension,i only watched it because of Daniela Romo,Dominika and Guillermo ,nothing else to be honest.
 

And i kind of like the twist in Por Amor Manda,you cant just have an comedyvela from an beginning to the end,it kind gets kind of cheesy and lame after.
 

But PEAM was already lame and cheesy to begin with. When things started going really bad, it was then lame, cheesy, AND miserable.
 

Most of these TNs are remakes of older ones. Does anyone know enough about the originals to say if the originals did the same thing? My suspicion is that things start to go wrong when the producers stray from the original script.

It's theoretically possible that taking the story in a different direction could actually improve it, but that seldom seems to be the case.
 

Julie

I don't know if it straying so much as chasing ratings.If the rating are bad which I understand they were in LT they either bring in new characters which make no sense or start chopping to get it over with. With good ratings they want more, more, more which ends up in the same result. Either way chopping or extension the rhythm and pacing of the original story goes off the rails and we end up with a lot of WTH moments where we question our own sanity for continuing to watch. I can't think of any novela that ever benefited from being extended. Actually I was thinking the other day that when novelas were shorter 75 or so chapters they were tighter. These 175 to 200 TN's we get these days lay themselves open for bloated story telling.
 

AMEN, Decie Girl!!! I see a huge difference in TNs like LFDD, MPV and even CdC and longer TNs.
 

Haven't watched enough novelas to comment like some and I know what's bad to one person is exciting, entertaining, add you adjective. . .to others. That being said, I can also understand the studios or whomever wanting to make money. When novelas get really crazy and really bad I think it's the result of being totally out of touch with the audience, sometimes it seems like even having contempt for the audience. Maybe they get to the point that they don't care if the novella has all the appeal of a ghastly automobile accident that the viewer just can't look away from as long as ratings and money are still there. If whomever the powers that be are could stay in touch with the audience and produce something most people thought was good they'd find they can still get audience and ratings and money. Audience approval and pleasure I guess is not required and is easier.
 

Did anyone really like Abismo de Pasion? It was quite long and i havent really enjoyed it that much..It had huge 161 episodes ,making space for poor writing.
 

Thanks for the reminder, Demetrios. AdP is another great example of a show that started out really well and then got bad. Honestly I think it turned me off of Agelique. Maybe I should give LQLVMR a chance... But I can't stand any more of AB's tears.
 

On of the problems of longer novelas that are remakes of shorter ones is the story padding. Usually it contains characters that didn't previously exist in the story and that have nothing to do with the main plot. Combining two novela stories can prevent this if the right choices are made but then it's possible to screw up on writing or casting.

I liked Abismo until AB's character's IQ began dropping. I tuned in for the end because I wanted to see the Karmageddons of the villains, who could have been dealt with a lot earlier.

Why on earth are actresses expected to cry this much? Or is it our gringo upbringing with the "stiff upper lip" British influence that makes this so annoying to us? (Or should that be discussed in the weekend topic?0
 

I don't think it was the crying per se. I seem to remember there was a lot of shrieking and overacting that went along with the crying in AdP
 

In addition to the sidetracking of the story when remakes are extended beyond the original, sometimes the acting is so bad that a drama may become a(n) unintentional comedy and a comedy will veer into slapstick. Overacting, wooden acting (looking at you, Blanca Soto), screeching (Ingrid Martz) and unnecessary tears (Vic Ruffo, A Boyer) do not make the story any better or more palatable. Sometimes great acting can raise the quality (very little in some cases), but if there is an over-extended story with poor writing, directing and acting, forget it! CCEA was such a case. It had William Levy, though. :-)
 

El Refugio el para Amor. it started so beautifully. The main characters got married and whoops! downhill. Luckily it ended rather well. Decie Girl hit the nail right on the head. The networks had done enough TNs to get it right. What is their problem? It's obvious their research depts don't take viewer comments seriously. Most people watch only because of their favorite actors/actresses, not so much for the stories.
 

I read that telenovelas originally were about 60 episodes in length which seems to be a good number for completing the story arc without dragging things out in ways that make no sense.
 

I really liked Cuidado Con el Angel in the beginning. The scenery (including the actors) was so beautiful, and the characters were sympathetic, and the story was compelling enough, and there were enough side plots to keep it interesting. Then it got extended, and the original writing team quit, and it was like they were just filming without any scripts or direction for a few months. The plot completely stalled, the characters turned really stupid (Marichuy constantly blaming Juan Miguel for stuff that was not his fault, for example), a formerly nice and good character (Vicente) got turned into a conniving jerk for absolutely no good or believable reason, just to add drama. It was ridiculous. They should have just stuck with the original number of episodes and kept it good. Although it did make for some fun recapping.
 

When I was in college I got a chance to take part in a discussion with William Harrison, the author of Rollerball. Rollerball started out as a short story and was turned into a feature film starring James Caan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollerball_(1975_film)

Our class watched the film and the discussion followed. The film was terrible, just beyond awful, so when the lights came up you could hear a pin drop. Nobody knew what to say. Here's the author of this piece standing in front of you and there really is nothing anyone can say that is complementary. The first words out of Harrison's mouth were, "Pretty awful, huh?" He knew it and he made no apologies. As it turned out, the film took a terrible turn when James Caan found out he could bully the director, Norman Jewison. Harrison told us Jewison is a great director but he wasn't forceful enough to hold his own against James Caan's ego. Caan just decided he was going to do things that weren't written into the script (like wearing a rodeo belt-buckle) and not do things the script called for that he didn't want to do. Caan rode roughshod over the whole production and as a result the film was crap.

I think PEAM may have suffered from something similar. When "off-scrren conflicts" between actors were "resolved" with the axing of a major character the whole production suffered. PEAM was not that great to begin with, but the storyline took a nasty, stupid turn after Elias was banished to New York. I'll bet the original story had been written to include Elias and the writers had to scramble to change everything that followed once he was gone. Maybe a better director/producer could have held it together. Just goes to show what happens when large egos are allowed to run the show.
 

Xlntperuvian: What an excellent story about Wm Harrison. Thank you for sharing it.

PEAM really did start stinking in earnest after Jorge Aravena was written out of it. I wish they could have recast the role and gone on with the story as written, but maybe that would have made things even more awkward all around.
 

Urban, I appreciate this topic that you explained to us.
ano 4:37, I'm with you over CCEA. When I watched this, in the beginning I really liked it and so since it was an old tn, I bought the dvd. I was amazed at the chop ups they did and over on cable they extended it to silliness, that I lost interest watching it. Especially unexplained events.
I too hated Corona de Lagrimas due to its lame story about a drama mama that does nothing but cry as proof of good acting and therefore won her an award. Can you imagine someone crying over a lost/broken eyeglasses and three overgrown sons who are excessively cared for by a long suffering mom? As for PEAM, I skipped this show because I didn't think it was worth my time.I like the ranchera songs in QBA but that's about the only thing they can offer, no story to tell at all.
 

I'm going to take a huge risk here and say that while AV did not go horribly wrong, the extension did tarnish it a little bit. I don't like filler of any kind and AV had a little bit of it.

Decie Girl said it best, there really is no novela that has benefited from being extended.
 

Velo de Novia hands down. I remember once in 2009 when I was still discovering Caray Caray I came across Pratie Place which had a blog story about the bigger a villain you are, the harder your downfall will be and that novela was mentioned like this. "This started out as a great telenovela that got totally messed up when they killed everyone off in the middle and basically started with a new cast." I saw it back in 2009 in El Salvador and didn't think much of it until this year where I find it DRASTICALLY Violent. Also the infamous Mujer de Madera which (shoutout to Carlos for enticing me to it somewhat as of this morning) had switched between female leads midway LOL. Carlos-It's settled, I'm watching it soon. I guess when I;ll post about more when I think of them. Bye for now!
 

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I was really annoyed that Elias was written out of PEAM. I thought they should have told the actors to suck it up and be professional. They also could have rearranged things a bit so the two actors didn't share scenes but he remained in the story. Getting rid of him was just stupid. The character NEVER would have just up and left his daughter like that. Plus, it seemed like they just ran out of plot ideas, which was strange because there were so many plotlines they had started earlier and then just left dangling! SO UNSATISFYING!!!
 

If I remember correctly, Amor Bravio was extended. The first part was a remake and the second part original material.
 

So VR cries every episode in Corona de Lagrimas? Prepare your tissues when you are watching it!
Im glad Victoria does not star in La Malquerida..

When VR ever begins crying,braincells begin to die.
 

Thanks for your question UA. ITA that extending a tn does not improve it. Though I did enjoy LFMB, it had an insane extension; if I remember correctly the number of new episodes was more than the entire run of original for a total of 300 episodes Perhaps the edited DVD, made it more bearable.

Demetrios - my complete enjoyment of AdP was the Caray, Caray! community. The recappers and commenters were so funny I felt I had to see episodes so I could be in on the fantastic snark.

xintperuvian - thanks for sharing your story.

Susanlynn - yes 60 seems a great number to me. As Sara noted, the shorter tns and usually much better productions. Less fluff and silliness.

 

What a great topic!

And my greetings to everybody on here! I'm sorry if it seemed like, after making my first 'grand entrance', I then proceeded to 'fade from view' but, really, I've been making the grand move from Toronto (Ontario, Canada) to Ometepe Island (Nicaragua- BEAUTIFUL place, and- seriously- if ANYBODY wants to check it out, you're MORE than welcome to stay with me!! :-) ) and have been rather caught up in the basics of making a house a home (i.e.- internet, cable, home furnishings, etc...)
But, really, what a great subject!!! Without spending too much time on the previous thoughts and outputs of others, I can only honestly offer this:
CI- PERFECT example- what a promising novela!! And, really, from the start they did everything right. I really believe that not nearly enough credit has been given to Elizabeth Alvarez in her papel de Lucia. Considering the exposure (and infamy, it must be said) that Chantal Andere achieved worldwide in same part, La Alvarez had some hard shoes to fill, and I, for one, feel that she did this admirably. Perhaps I am in the minority here, but I feel that La Alvarez's Lucia FAR surpassed La Andere's Angelica in terms of overall depth of character. Without a doubt, the 'humiliation' scene was MUCH better in 'Marimar' than in CI, but that was not the fault of the actors in so much as it was the writer and directors but, in every way, La Alvarez succeeded in creating a character that was dangerously unhinged, and whose subsequent actions became all the more believable, and as such abhorrent for us, the viewers, to watch. Andere's Angelica (in 'Miramar') to me always came across as somewhat haughty- she was the new, young 'mistress of the mansion', and that was why she reacted as she did- from a snobbish desire to 'assert herself', as you will...
With Elizabeth Alvarez's Lucia, it went beyond that... you (or 'I', at least...) got the feeling that she genuinely derived PLEASURE from the evil that she was doing. Rather than feel like she NEEDED to assert herself, Alvarez's Lucia was doing what she did because she ENJOYED it. There is no question that, while the entire tragedy was unfolding, that Lucia enjoyed the results of her machinations every step of the way.... I particularly loved the BRIEF scene where she confesses to Miguel what she has done- there is not a whit of remorse, nor of explanation, just a rather gutteral, baritonal laugh before she confesses that this was, in fact, everything that she had planned. Andere's Angelica, however cold she may be, comes across as a 'Duena', some might say JUSTIFIABLY protecting her household from those that are her lessers... Alvarez's Lucia enjoys every step of the way.

 

Nowhere is this more evident in the 'Venganza' scene. Andere's loathsome princess Angelica is dispatched with mud on her face and her tail between her legs. Alvarez's Lucia does the same PROUDLY, she grits her teeth, and seethes with rage (I'm SURE her SNARL of frustration when Maricruz reveals that the papers were, indeed, photocopies could NOT have been WRITTEN into the script!!) and, basically, EVERYTHING about that scene is just so VISCERAL... and as such, so successful in a way that telenovelas hardly attain nowadays, alas...
And, alas also, is what happened to that novela since then. From the death of Lucia (which made MUCH more horrific sense (if you ask me) in the hands of La Alvarez), who died, not just unrepentant, but hideously deformed by burns and shrieking with rage (something that- to me- seemed out of place with La Andere's 'Haughty Mother' Angelica... didn't anyone else out there just feel like the reason she hated all that was going on was just because it was just such an untidy MESS in her life??? Alvarez's Lucia actively seemed to want to HATE and DESTROY her target's life MORE...), even without the amazing job that Ingrid Martz did (transforming Doris into someone that- whether it was to laugh at, decry, or despise.... but into somebody that you TRULY felt SOMETHING towards (rarely good, but that was the idea!!)... the whole Novela could be held up as being quintessential when it comes to the word "floundering".
And, indeed, as time went on, I grew to be wearied, then disappointed, then aghast, then insulted, then offended by what the writers gave us. Enough is enough, already.... and WHY should WE, the viewers, be the ones to realize this and express it to YOU, the WRITERS???? (Who, I expect, are getting paid a MILLION times more than we, and as such should have to put up with much BETTER than what you give us!!!).
Anyway... I bring this up just because it seemed to me to be the perfect example of "A humble viewer- DISAPPOINTED!!!". Will share more later, but it's way late here in Moyogalpa, and I respect you all too much to already be afraid of babbling!
As such, g'nite to all from Nicaragua... and will write more on the morrow!! :-)
 

Velo de Novia really bothered me when at the midpoint they killed off more than half the cast and replaced them. Paquita la del Barrio was one of the reasons I tuned in in the first place so I was upset that she departed the cast.

That was a real head-scratcher.

The finale of La Esposa Virgen bothered me, too. I've mentioned this many times in this blog, but the shock of that ending blew my mind. On the second viewing I saw the logic of it although if that series had been 5 weeks longer (a switch from our usual advice) it could have had the ending we all expected.
 

I did not really like Fuerza del Destino,not that i hate it or that it is terribad but the villians were kind of lackluster,i expected more from them.. When Ivan forgave Juan Jaime in the finale it made me cringe inside.
 

LFDD didn't float my boat either, but at least I wasn't annoyed and insulted when it was over. The story had a beginning, a middle and an end. Even if the story didn't grab my attention it never felt like it was all over the place.

On another note-one thing that annoys me about extensions is that they tend to make the Fin seem anticlimactic. At least to me they do. It was especially true for AdP. Elisa and and Damian's wedding was the worst I've seen. It was too early and they didn't even really want to. Or at least Elisa didn't. And that final episode felt so thrown together. Almost like the writers were trying to convince us that everyone was happy.
 

Extensions? I guess that if one likes the novela, then an expansion of the story is not a bad thing. For me, when I like what I am watching, I never want it to end even though I know that it must at some point. A extension of the story/plot means new faces, and new excitement at the fork in the road so to speak.
I guess that it can/will work in the opposite way if you are not liking the story and are hoping that it will hurry up and end.

A little off the subject but it was mentioned---crying? I have often thought why SOOOO much of it? Is there really that much difference in the Southern and Northern cultures? --- Victoria Ruffo, I can't stand her crying, Maybe it's her low voice, I don't know but her sobs really get to me. YUCK!
the gringo
 

The Gringo. Crying is good just not overcrying lol,it gets old fast,the protangoist is expected to fight all,stay strong and only cry in really dramatical moments( the boyfriend is marrying someone else,someone close is killed,hospital drama etc) .VR cried at everything. If someone was recapping Corona im sure they would run out of tissues and would die from facepalmia.
 

UA-I can't remember if it was an official discussion or an offhand comment and I can't remember if it was you or someone else, but wasn't it mentioned here once that we are seeing more extensions and higher episode counts because it's cheaper to produce a smaller number of TNs per year?
 

Sara

I didn't make the comment but it makes sort of sense. One cast, one set of writers for 10 or 12 months, versus two casts and accompanying costs for 6 months could be significanlty different. The problem with these 150 plus chapter TN's is that the producers are asking the viewers to make a significant commitment in time. As a viewer if I make that choice I want a solid story, a good acting, it isn't enough to load in popular actors, at least not for me. The story and cast have to grab me in the first couple of days or I'm gone. I also think producers like the long TN's because they don't have to work on developing younger talent, they can throw in the usuals who often bring a fan base 145 uniquip;with them even if the story is dreck.
 

As a viewer if I make that choice I want a solid story, a good acting, it isn't enough to load in popular actors, at least not for me. The story and cast have to grab me in the first couple of days or I'm gone.

I feel very much the same way, Decie. Whenever I start hearing the rumors about what TN is next I start checking out the cast. Yes, I like some of the "popular" actors, but I am drawn by the supporting cast, too. One of the reasons I wanted to watch PSMA was Sofia Castro, Pablo Lyle and Thelma Madrigal...ok, the whole cast actually and I don't think any of them are "hot" right now. (By that I mean Anqelique, Ana Brenda Contreras and Sebastian Rulli seem to be "hot" right now.) Not to mention Protags that are my age!

Than being said, the best cast in the world isn't going to make me watch if the story is crap or turns to crap.
 

I think Abismo de Pasión was good in the begining because they stuck with the original script from Cañaveral de Pasiones. Once the telenovela started its own path due to the need to fill at least 70 more episodes the writing started to fail.

I also think David Zepeda was a wrong choice for the lead. Pablo in CdP was boyish and full of life with a sweet disposition and playfull attidute. Zepeda's Damián was quiet, wounded and intense, which gave him an older, more mature image (Zepeda being in his late 30's fit that image better I guess) but that just made his mistakes all the more annoying while his good moments were much less charming.

Jarocha


 

Demetrios;
As to your question re: likeing Abismo de Pasion.

As a recapper for the show, I cannot say that I ever loved the story. It was classic melodrama, with Boyer crying endlessly and over the top eevil performances from the secondary cast. There were many things to dislike in costuming, esp. where Angelique was concerned.

I was quite troubled by what I took to be an unhealthy slant in the Father/daughter relationship. But my biggest problem with Abismo de Pasion, as Decie Girl said so well earlier, is the 'bloated storytelling'.

It is virtually impossible to maintain the dramatic tension inherent in a 'situation' drama over 120++ one hour episodes.

Viewers get what I like to call, 'The Perils of Pauline Fatigue'. We know longer feel for the imperiled heroine, we just want her to get the hell of the track.

ITA with you, Urban, in your comment about story padding.

EJ

 

I'm the one who speculated about production cost being the driver of fewer but longer series. Add to that the savings on sets for comedies because they can be more studio-bound due to their primarily taking place in the characters' offices rather than in fancy mansions. Studios can also build sets when characters live in apartments.

Also saves the cost of designing and creating period costumes and the other stuff that goes with them (antique-looking furniture, carriages, ships). There hasn't been a novela de epoca for 4 years, which I personally also mourn.
 

A few more things about comedies:

1. Due to the story structures and character interaction, they are probably easier to extend.

2. They provide more interesting roles for actors who are less than spectacular-looking.

3. However, I wonder how exportable they are because humor isn't as translatable as drama. Does anyone know how well they do internationally vs the dramas?
 

Urban, excellent weekend topic as always.

I hope that our AlejoP, who is currently posting on MPV, will drop in and give us his take on what works well in his country and those European countries who broadcast the TN.

I was thinking about the issues of translation the other day and have often wondered what gets lost in said translation. Idiomatic expressions are difficult in any language and probably the most difficult to translate.

My question is: when the TN really starts on a fast downward slide, why does no one seem to intervene to stop it and set the boat back on course again? What is happening/has happened to CI is something I cannot fathom. Why did this happen? Is no one held accountable? If not, why?

Fatima
 

Fatima Because all Uni ever cares about is money and nothing more.
 

Demitrios- It is not Univision that is responsible for the mess that is CI. It is Televisa. Uni just buys the finished product (and sometimes messes it up further).
 

Here is an European opinion about comedic tns - I mostly hate them because the comedy is really bad.
A good example of comedy is Marido en Alquiler (Telemundo), but they are starting to ruin that story, too. But that's an exception.

Take PEAM, for example: they take Fernando Colunga, who has always been a hotty galan and turn him into a mumbling fool - doesn't work for me. Nevermind the fact that Jesus should have been played by an actor 10 years younger - I watched 5 episodes and I let it go.
They say Pobres tan Ricos is good, the Mexican audience loves it, but they also loved CI.

As for extensions, they are always bad. Producers always say the tn is so succesfull, they decided to prolongue it, but I mostly think this is about cutting costs. A mind blowing exception is CI, who had huge numbers that I will never understand!
 

Demetrios and Vivi in DC, thank you for your comments. :)

Vivi in DC, why do you think Uni feels the need to "improve" upon the Televisa product?

Fatima
 

Oh, almost forgot! AlejoP from Hungary is writing up some of his thoughts on which novelas have and have not worked in his country and the reasons for their successes/failures.

We look forward to hearing from you AlejoP!

Fatima
 

How did people like La usurpadora? I heard it had an extention..
 

Great topic, UA. Don't have anything to add. My two favorite telenovelas, Amor Real and Alborada, were not padded. And they were great. I suspect I would have liked Pasion also.

The reason I continue to watch these bloated, hot mess telenovelas is to keep my Spanish ear trained and to enjoy the wonderful community on CarayCaray, of which you, UA, are a big part. Thank you, one and all.
 

Comedic telenovelas are difficult to get right. Not every actor can play comedy and many are awful in them, like Libre para Amarte which you luckyly didn't get in the US, I had no idea what that was.

I didn't like PEAM, that novela had so many issues, from behind the scenes drama to bad casting (the leads) to sudden changes in the plot and characters that didn't really fit. I left it halfway through and only looked back every now and then to check out the mess.

But some of my favorites are comedies, like Un Gancho al Corazón, which gets replayed here all the time and never fails to make me laugh. I know that one didn't translate that well in the US, since they changed its timeslot two times.

I also liked Al Diablo con los Guapos and the first part of Los Exitosos Pérez (as well as the original Argentinian Los Exitosos Pells).

I wasn't as into Hasta que el Dinero Nos Separe as many here but I did like parts of it very much. Mostly just the main couple.

I like Que Pobres tan Ricos although I do feel it's moving too slowly right now but I find all the characters likeable and the villains are great, they are stealing the show. As long as I can like all the characters I can stay with a show and see how it goes.

Jarocha
 

AlejoP, you are from Hungary? Did you know that Alegria is from Ukraine? And I'm from Romania :))

I'm a little out of touch with what airs in my home country, though, so I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on what worked and what didn't work in HU.

Wow, what a small world!!!

PS: my husband's grand-parents were from Hungary and our last name is Hungarian. How about that???
 

Fatima said:
"My question is: when the TN really starts on a fast downward slide, why does no one seem to intervene to stop it and set the boat back on course again? What is happening/has happened to CI is something I cannot fathom. Why did this happen? Is no one held accountable? If not, why?"

It's my understanding that CI had high ratings throughout. As long as ratings are high I don't think anyone cares that much about quality. But I guess your question still stands because TdA had low ratings and it never seemed to be on track.

UA-I have tried to like the comedies. I saw the end of UFCS, but I think that by then it had become more dramatic. PESE looked very intriguing, but in the end I decided not to watch. AC had comedic elements but ultimately it was your typical novela fare (but is one of my faves it was so inexplicably charming.)

OT but comedies made me think of it: If Daniel Arenas ever does a comedic role again I will watch it in a heartbeat. I still say his William Guillermo Pinzón was his best work.
 

I've never liked many of the comedies because I don't think humor necessarily translates well from one country to the next. How on earth can anyone explain Jerry Lewis' wild popularity if France.

As someone said many actors cannot do comedy. It takes a special skill set and just because you are hot or can mug for a camera doesn't mean you can do comedy. Some of our more aging actors may be giving it a shot to try and extend their range. On the other hand many comedic actors can shift into dramas and do them well.

As for Corazon Interminable who knows why it was so popular. Every English site i've been on has people saying the same thing what on earth about this mess made it popular. I can only guess that it's the cast.

I think Marido started very well but jumped the shark when the dead hubby came back and I say that even with the odious Teresa Christina whose shrieking and overacting drove me mad and eventually to quit before wasting more of my time.
 

I dont really think novelas and comedies mix together,they are like a bad combination.They are bound to have an induced drama in it. Its like if you would try putting Mr Bean in an thriller with him starring as the main antangoist,its not going to work.
Do we have any good known Spanish comedians btw?
 

SaraC, yes, we have discussed the ratings issue before which I'm sure plays a huge part in all of this, but surely someone at either Televisa or Univision HAS to see what CI has become. I know CI has its fans on the blog and I surely do respect their opinion, but my heavens, it just seems like a boat without a rudder.

I agree with the poster "Unknown" who has made some very good points re the loss of Elizabeth Alvarez' character and what it did to the course of the story.

I don't know, maybe I am just someone who likes to see someone held accountable for a mess!

Fatima
 

Fatima-I completely understand!! AdP and CI are two shows that just make me angry. I confess that I get emotionally invested when watching a TN and it makes me sad and angry when things go so wrong. I feel like I have lost a dear friend when I think about CI. When the opening credits start rolling I get such a sense of bittersweet nostalgia thinking about those golden days at the beginning. It's just not the same show any more and I am saddened by it. I had the same feelings with AdP and eventually got over it, so I suspect I will get over the hot mess that CI became but for now the wound is still fresh and I also wish some heads would roll (and yes, I realize I sound like a nut.)

 

Jarocha-I am eyeing Que Pobres tan Ricos and thinking about watching it. Thanks for the early review. I've never seen Jaime Camil, but I like his looks so I want to give it a try. PLus, I really like Natasha Dupreyon and I want to see her.

But I can't help but think its UFCS in reverse. Am I missing something?
 

Fatima asked me I wrote how TNs perform in Hungary, so perhaps I will be incoherent, but I have many thoughts.

I show you how many TN runs nowadays, and run in the past. I have a kind girlfriend, who opened a website for novelas.

www.telenovelas.hu

Here you can see 5 premiere TNs, which were showed at first (yet haven't showed) in the country (AB from NDM). Under you can see 22 another TN-s, but these are not premieres, repetitions. We have watched them before once or more times.
On the left side there is a tag 'Romantikás novellák': it shows that TNs, that showed on Zone Romantica. It was a channel for only TNs, but few years ago ZR's profile changed, and now we can see only repetitions mornings. On the left side there is the second tag "egyéb novellák". It shows those TN-s, which run on all other chanels. In Hungary we can watch more than 200 TN until today.

The first TN was Yo compro esa mujer, and now the freshest is La Tempestad. But we have already known the first new novela will be CI in 2014. Tremble, Hungary!

Successes and failures: the most successful TN's have more near 3 millions audience in the beginning (1998-2002), after was a great break near 2008, and from 2008 there are a big TN dumping, that now started to reduce. Some months ago, there are 11 premieres. Nowadays very successful audience is only above 1 million.
Gran Exitos were CCEA, Tierra de pasiones, Rubi, Eva Luna. Medium successes were Teresa, TDA, STUD, Sortilegio.
And the great failures: PEAM (the channel wanted to cease, but there are petitions, so from 4pm just they repaced to noon.) UMEM was another failure: it had only 92 episodes and over without fin. But TNs failed like MEPS or Acorralada, La otra cara del alma.
Hungarians I think don't like mexican comedies and neither I. I think we have other concepts for the mexican humor, we feel it constrained.
A big name is not a guarantee for the success: for example Gaby Spanic, Fernando Colunga, Lucero, (she was not known until 2010) William Levy. But I guess the most favourite actress is Gaby Spanic. Perhaps in 2011 she came to Hungary, fans are very happy. We could watch all TNs of Gaby, except Prisionera. Before Spanic, who came to my country were Natalia Oreiro, Thalia and Fernando Carillo (round 2000 ) here.
Many years ago people liked Brazilian novelas, but the needs are changed, so Avenida Brasil is not successful on the public service channel despite undeniable quality. We bought the most from Televisa and Telemundo novelas. But we can notice a new trend: more and more Venevision/Univision arrives: Eva Luna, Acorralada, Corazon apasionado, Natalia del mar.
What people most like in Hungary I think: novela rosas as CCEA, or Eva Luna, poor girl and rich boy.
Imagine that, Rosalinda is on the screen now, and it is the 15th occasion.
Besides argentinean novelas didn't have good ratings, so we almost didn't buy. AEC was a great failure, and I think we won't see the Mexican version AV.
And another intresting story: after the great success of CCEA, the concurrent chanel bought TDA and renamed the protagonists: Max --> Juan Miguel, Maria Desamparada --> Marichuy (and the title was: Marichuy - The triumph of Love)
Or after the great success of Rubi, the concurrent chanel bought Amor Descarado because of Barbara Mori, it failed, and they replaced the series onto a small cable channel.
And a funny title of TN: Corona de Lagrimas --> in Hungarian it weas The Queen of Tears (Vic Ruffo, haha.)

I am sure I didn't write everything, but now it was that I recalled from my memory, and if you have questions I am answering happily.
 

I started to watch QA, OPTR and LQLVMR but I finished all of them.

QA was too boring me.
QPTR, I love Ocampo since LFDD, but I don't like mexican humour. Many elements isn't funny for me.
LQLVMR: I loved Amor Real, but that was good in the 19th century, it may not good in the 21th century for me. And I don't like the writers who works for Angelli Nesma. I like Zarattini, Carillo-Garcia duo and Blanco-Pena authors.

For me Acorralada would have been a good novela with its small stupidities (mobile signals in the jungle) and cliches (blindness, twins), but the last third was terrible.
 

Dear AlejoP, you were not incoherent at all! Your English is excellent. I think it is so incredible that we have such a worldwide audience. You, Jarocha, Adriana Noel, Alegria (and others I am missing I am sure) have given us a perspective that allows for putting all of the TN pieces together.

What, in general, do you and others in your country think about the quality of Venivision novelas? Have you seen "El Talisman" there? I never commented on that novela, but "watched" it by reading the recaps and the incredibly funny and witty comments from the Viewerville folks. That novela was something else, I gotta say.

The comedies don't do much for me, in general, but I did see the repeat of "La Fella Mas Bella".I did not see it when it originally aired. My Spanish vocab went to new heights with that one! The original comments and the repeat comments on the blog were great. How was that one received in your country?

Fatima
 

SaraC, believe me, I DO understand about becoming emotionally invested in the TN. It's (for some of them) like reading a good book. You don't want to leave the characters. So, when something bad happens to the characters (in terms of poor writing, etc) I feel as you do.

Yup. I'll get over it, but when you think of the time that some of us invest in the TN (for all of our reasons), that's when I get ticked off when things go badly.

Fatima
 

AlejoP-I understood you perfectly and thank you for sharing. I love to hear about the international TN audience.

Fatima-I'm glad you understand :-)
 

Fatima:
Venevision novelas: my personal opinion is we got the weaker quality TNs from them. (I would like to watch La viuda joven or El arbol de Gabriel)
I think the following thing was in the background. I know so, when a Tv-company buy TN-s, they buy a packet, in that there are 2-3 TN-s or 3-4 TN-s. By the one of main channel (RTL Klub) the first was Acorralada. When it was promoted they tell in the promo DZ, WL and EG name. I think it was bought because of them but they bring a serious failure.
At the same time with Acorralada the concurrent TV2 bought Eva Luna, and Eva Luna wins with enormous success. I think therefore RTL Klub can buy a packet on the fair of Venevision. Two popular novelas: El talisman and Corazón apasionado. In these novelas there are the 2 protagonists of Eva Luna, and if they bought (CA and ET) they got a 3. novela: it was the Natalia del mar. These 3 novelas were showed on the smaller brother-channel. But now the CA's repetition is moved to the main channel. I think it shows CA reaches good numbers on the smaller channel. By the way Marlene Favela is well-known from Zorro. It was a very popular TN. Zorro was followed by another costume TN, La Traicion with Mario Cimarro, that failed.
It's so difficult to find what people will like.

Oh La fea mas bella: it was also unfinished novela, they cut off the last 40 episodes. A channel bought after the higly succesful Betty La fea, but it doesn't operated. Near the last presented episode it was run at dawn about 4am-5am. The only succesful comedy was the Betty, la fea and no more. That is interesting, the second part of Betty, - that was named Ecomoda - hadn't as good numbers as the first part. And now there is no channel that run the second part as repetiton, but the first part is constantly repeated. And we could also see the german version of Betty (Lisa). I don't know the german version's rating, but it could not be wrong, because it run to fin without changing date.

And lately we had more turkish novelas with very good audience.

 

In Romania I grew up watching tns from Venezuela, Peru, Argentina or Colombia. Mexico, too, but not as many as these days.
There is one channel that shows ONLY tns (and a sort of daytime/ nightime talk shows for women) and from what I know from my mom they mostly air tns from Televisa and Telemundo. They are not that far behind, though, sometimes they start airing a Televisa tn even before the US because I believe Romania is a huge market for tns makers.
Like in Hungary, turkish series are gaining popularity. I don't know how many have watched Pasion Prohibida (Telemundo), but the Turkish original was a huge hit in Ro (and Turkey, of course) - it's one of my faves, too, even if it didn't quite work for the US market.
Also, they started airing Coreean series - they are similar to tns, but due to the cultural differences, they are not quite the same (even more so than Turkish ones) - my dad HATES tns, but ADORES Coreean stories. Go figure!

 

Oh, and here, in France, they air one or two tns on basic cable - but I definitely CANNOT hear "mi amor, por favor" translated in French (no cc option, except from very few channels).
 

Adriana, did you talk about the Acasa channel, that shows only TNs. As I said it was the ZR in Hungary, but its face has been changed, unfortunately.

Turkish original PP also was a huge hit in Hungary. It has been already repeated.

Corean series are doramas. PBC showed several doramas, I think these have significant audiance.
Now Televisa might make a telenovela with Jose Ron and Esme Pimentel, that will be a remake of a corean history, that will sustitute DQTQTQ.
 

Alejo, yes, ACASA is the channel.
I didn't know about the name of the Coreean stories, thanks!
I did know about the Jose Ron new tn and the subject is pretty differentf for a tn - surogacy.

I've watched scenes from the original PP without translation (on line) and even if I couldn't understand a word they were saying, I could feel the emotion and the drama.

 

In Hungary a one-sided JCC - fan wrote honestly: the original PP was much better than remake PP. I thought I have seen it wrong.

Adriana, I believe you felt the emotion. But there are something, that I don't like in turkish series. It seems hardcore drama and so much sadness, with bitter music.
 

When I started watching TN's we used to get a lot of novelas from Venevision some of which were good some horrible, we also got some from Argentina and Chile. This goes back to the late 90's.

Many of the actors moved on to Televisa and Univision seem to just stop running them. This was also about the time that all those foreign galans like Juan Soler, Saul Lizazo, Maria Cimmaro etc were taking roles from Mexican actors which caused all kinds of unhappy feelings.

I saw one of the original La Madrasta's and the very pretty and popular Girasoles for Lucia during the afternoon and when Morelia ran in Spain and in Hungary I made a lot of TN buddies commenting on another site.

My husband and I were in Spain and someone complimented him on his excellent Spanish but noted his Mexican accent. I laughed and said mine was a mix of all those South American, Mexican and Cuban ones i heard on novels to which someone said I was trying to figure it out. LOL
 

Alejo, Jencarlos Canela is my telenovio numero 2, so I mostly watched PP for him, but the original was so much better!!
I don't like Turkish tns, they are too depressing, like you say.

Decie, I noticed how many actors moved to Mexico, too, and now to the US, also. The money is better, the production values are better, they have bigger international reach.
There are still plenty of tns being made in South America, but I think the Eastern Europe market is no longer interested, because they have package deals with Televisa and Telemundo and it works for the best for both parties.
And in this age of remakes, sooner or later a Mexican version is bound to happen, anyway - even if it's usually crappy, it still sells.
 

AlejoP and Adrianna Noel, REALLY fascinating to hear what is happening in each of your respective countries. I am thoroughly enjoying your excellent background information on the TN "machine" around the world.

Thank you both so much and thank you Urban for starting such an interesting discussion for this weekend. :))

Fatima
 

If I may add some words in defense of C.I.'s Mexican audience: When I was watching the original Mexican broadcast of C.I., I also regularly followed the official C.I. fan page on Facebook. And believe me, Mexican fans BEGGED....BEGGED....the producer and writers to fix the story when we all saw it heading downhill, especially after Lucia's death. Since it was the production's own fan page, the admin always reassured fans to hold on, that great, exciting, unexpected things were coming. So what happened? The poor fans, who were emotionally invested just like many fans here, held on against all hope. And when they saw what the producer and writers actually came up with, they unleashed their fury. People were seriously angry and made it clear in their comments. By then, of course, they had already been snookered into continuing to support C.I. - THAT, my friends, is the only reason the ratings kept up, although they did show a slight dip in these last few episodes when some fans finally realized that the producer and writers made fools of all of us who held on and watched until the very end.
 

LatinainmD thanks for clarifying...I refused to believe the Mexican viewing public were that stupid. So the production basically did a bait-and-wait on the audience-making them believe they'd change/fix things when they weren't planning to. ¡Que cínico! Mejia and Co should be run out on a rail for that.

Because of the horrible mothers link here in the thread, I'm watching Cuna de lobos. It really is good. Televisa uploaded it on YouTube and even tthe score is good. Watching the first cap, I can see why it's considered the best TN/the ur telenovela-it's just really beautifully, shot, acted and tasteful even as it deals with some heavy themes. Also, the outfits on the female characters prove that 1980s fashion wasn't all bad.
 

Oh, you are lucky not to watch russian novelas. They are 100000% warst then the worst novela of Televisa :)))
Alegria
 

Eck.... Angelique Boyer is the worst...... fake everything..... and her downturned mouth .... eck!


Bad tn/s imho: Abismo de Pasión, TdA, La Patrona.
 

oh yes..... and CI!!!
 

Just want to add that here(Baltics) the channels are also favoring Turksih novelas now and promoing them to death.
No ones ever bothered to market any good TN so the South-American Novela lovers are pissed.
And we usually get stuff from Televisa and Telemundo,oh also the hideous Venevision Miami.Corazon Apasionado and El Talisman were the worst! Not even Favela and Novoa could have saved those.
Eva Luna was a bit better but..
 

Abismo de pasion was very tiresome to watch, and thats cause of too much filler and unecessary extensions. Its sad to hear that De Te Quiero, Te Quiero has also being extended.

I would very much like to see telenovelas from Venevision-the better quality, as said- telenovelas like Natalia del mar, La viuda joven, La mujer perfecta, Valgame Dios (where there was a very entertaining villana called Maribelis) and Mi ex me tiene ganas, at least for a change.

Its sad that these telenovelas are not being bought worldwide and shown in other countries cause they are very nice, and a pleasant change from Televisa-Telemundo. Venevision International needs to start marketing such telenovelas more aggresively.


La mujer perfecta starred the late Monica Spear, and she was really great there.
 

I love you guys. Am from Kenya so I haven't watched that many TNs. I stumbled across this site a while back. I love the recapers, they make some of these stuff worth watching.Right now, Corona Lagrimas is on weekdays. What a waste of airtime! I still haven't recovered the excruciating pain of the first episode. I mean, who CRIES that much? and the storyline...what mother lets her youngest son work to help with the elder brothers' education. I thought it was the other way round(at least it is in Kenya). La Patrona is is also airing so I have something to occupy my time. It has been OK so far.Although that chick Valentina is starting to piss me off. And having Jorge Luis Pila to ogle at is a plus ;). Abismo de Passion just ended. Geez, who wrote/directed that thing? (don't answer that).I've never seen so much stupid in one place. Oh CI is on too. Of course I've already gone through the recaps here so...am not sure even where to begin on that one. The only thing that tries to save this TN is Octavio's hair.If TN writers paid attention to even a fraction of the stuff said here, they would come up with so much better material.
 

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Glad you joined us,Leeandra! And yes Abismo was just underwhelming,Corona Del Lagrimas is terrible,i swear if they ever broadcast it in my country god help them!

As for CI,nobody likes Oblivio,he does not have a functioning brain .And ugh Doris...