Saturday, March 29, 2014
Weekend Discussion: Are Novelas Getting More Violent?
We've referenced this before, but with the recent incidents in Lo Que La Vida Me Robo, Mentir Para Vivir, and even the attempted rape in De Que Te Quiero Te Quiero we can't help but wonder whether novelas in general are going down a slippery slope that can't be tilted back.
In a previous discussion on this issue we seem to have come to the consensus that the rise of the narco stories came from the networks' desire to get more male viewers. I don't know whether that's been working for them, but edgier has been the order of the day in all television and we need to ask ourselves whether there should be a limit. In the US there is an irrational fear of sexual content in ad-supported television which until relatively recently hasn't affected the Spanish-language networks very much. We're complaining here -- and justifiably -- when we become aware of hot love scenes being censored because they are censoring mostly scenes that show couples who actually love each other and actors who have the right chemistry to do scenes like that. Why are television networks so afraid of the conservative moral watchdogs who -- if they were truly what they say they are -- aren't even watching these programs and theoretically shouldn't care about them? These people don't control all the money in this country although they are trying hard. We should not allow them to get a foothold into our private lives.
Why instead are they not censoring violence? Violence is the real obscenity in modern society and the constant exposure to it takes away much of its shock value. The occasional violent scene with bruises, bloodshed, etc., can be powerful; too many such and people will begin to shrug it off. Is this some unconscious Darwinian element nobody has identified?
Villains are also becoming more perverse as we continue down this path. Porque el Amor Manda gave us a female villain who emotionally abused her own child (as in 5 years old in the opening of the story), Amor Bravio had a male villain who raped his own niece, even planning it so that it happened just as she became mayor de edad, and a sexual blackmailer forcing the heroine into her Tosca moment (as an opera fan I sometimes wish she would have taken the same action). LQLVMR and PSMA are currently giving us villains of such extreme sociopathy they're making our flesh crawl. Not an episode goes by on this blog that someone doesn't comment on that.
At the moment in a series like LQLVMR violence is the price tag we're paying for the otherwise good writing and the chemistry of the two leads. I'm not ready to walk away from such a situation, but if Televisa reads this blog, this is to let them know that there is only so much violence we should be able to tolerate in the name of ratings.
Sound off, amigos.
Labels: bravio, Manda, mentir, robo, te-quiero, telenovelas, weekend
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I haven't watched novelas that long but their is a trend to over the top graphic violence in the media generally. In the last couple of seasons, network prime time tv has become incredibly violent. For example, torture has now become a mainstay activity on many of these shows. Prime time network tv torture is something I never thought I would have to see or turn off. In your face violence has been in your face for years on cable or at the movies. As a fan of horror and suspense genres, I find less explicit portrayals of violence to be more effective and far less disgusting. In LQLVMR, they could have easily deleted the beating scenes. They could have shown us the menacing before and the results afterwards without having to play it out blow be blow. I am not a fan of this trend and find myself watching less dramas and looking for more comedies. I am so glad QPTR (such a delightful comedy) comes on after LQLVMR.
Jarifa
Jarifa
Permalink posted by 
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 9:59:00 AM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 9:59:00 AM EDT
Correction : "their" should be "there.
Jarifa
Jarifa
Permalink posted by : Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 10:01:00 AM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 10:01:00 AM EDT
I have to ask how did you tolerate En Nombre Del Amor then,?it was an extremely dark telenovela with suspendeous amounts of psychological torture,murder and extortion
I think that novelas have more violence just like American movies and TV shows. We are going down a depressing, slippery slope. I do not appreciate watching violence, blood, and gore. It is upsetting .
Permalink posted by : Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 10:53:00 AM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 10:53:00 AM EDT
Wondering about possible tie-ins between violent video games and violent TV programs, giving rise to expectations or acceptance of explicit violence? (Probably more true of male viewers than female?)
Oh, YES!!! Much more violent!!! I can't find fairy tales stories any more. Even if there is no violence on the screen, there are a lot of negative characters. For example, like in CI. I guess, it was only because they had early slot. Novelas in prime became sooo criminal. And it's sad. Because young people wiil try to repeat all this in real life. Now I can see it in Ukraine and Russia, because criminal characters from novelas were heros here. It's awful, that man with the gun became hero for teens. In Mexico now it's normal, when protagonist even rapes his love interest.
This world is mad.
Alegria
This world is mad.
Alegria
Permalink posted by : Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 12:17:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 12:17:00 PM EDT
And the villians seem to get crazier and crazier,Hernan was extremely obsessed,we had Isadora,Leoncio ugh.Most villians i cannot tolerate are villians like Leoncio,i will never forget the Tongue cutting scene and when Leoncio tortures Isadora back yuck it makes my skin crawl. If anyone watched Algien Te Mira you should understand
I totally agree about the violence, but totally disagree
about the sex and resent the put down of conservatives.
If you are who you say you are , why do you watch the
violence? All we need is MORE sex on tv to sexualize
our children even more. Surely you must realize that
there are conservative fans of these programs as well as
conservatives, such as myself, who read Caray Caray.
It's not bad enough that I have to endure the coarse
language, now my belief system is being attacked. Why can't we just enjoy these programs as entertainment and find another forum to debate the
moral issues? (If we CHOOSE to)
about the sex and resent the put down of conservatives.
If you are who you say you are , why do you watch the
violence? All we need is MORE sex on tv to sexualize
our children even more. Surely you must realize that
there are conservative fans of these programs as well as
conservatives, such as myself, who read Caray Caray.
It's not bad enough that I have to endure the coarse
language, now my belief system is being attacked. Why can't we just enjoy these programs as entertainment and find another forum to debate the
moral issues? (If we CHOOSE to)
Permalink posted by : Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 12:40:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 12:40:00 PM EDT
Here is the list of videos of Algien Te Mira by the way:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5r-UPuKy5qA
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4_3FV4IfO_I
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5r-UPuKy5qA
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4_3FV4IfO_I
Or is anyone watched La Case El Lado.. It is a super violent telenovela as well..Throwing your brother out of the windows is extremely cruel..
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PTch6OIji4w
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PTch6OIji4w
My first TN was Ramona 14 yrs ago and it was more graphically violent than anything I've watched lately, with more brutality and sheer number of folks killed (an entire Indian village viciously massacred), plus the main galan hanged, and the main villain (Sergio Sendel) horribly burned. Some pretty steamy romantic scenes as well.
As for censorship of sexual stuff, it seems rather haphazard and almost capricious to me. It's almost like someone is given scissors and instructed to cut out a certain percentage of stuff to give the impression that an effort is being made to protect the audience.
Carlos
As for censorship of sexual stuff, it seems rather haphazard and almost capricious to me. It's almost like someone is given scissors and instructed to cut out a certain percentage of stuff to give the impression that an effort is being made to protect the audience.
Carlos
I was able to watch ENDA because the villainy was more psychological than physical. The shooting at the wedding was a major shocker. Carlota was a real nut case in her horrid treatment of Paloma but it was played so brilliantly we didn't have to see Carolota's face as she murdered that poor little dog: The second we saw her remove him from the child's bed we knew he was a goner.
Carlos, I didn't see the more horrendous stuff in Ramona because that program got switched to daytime from prime time here before the worst of the violence happened. As to the murder of Alejandro it was in the book and couldn't be changed without compromising the integrity of the story.
Your take on the scissors may be because Univision puts more ads in and takes stuff out to make more room for them, as you can't add more minutes to an hour.
I have wondered whether the broadcast hour of PSMA in Mexico (4:15PM) is the reason for its low ratings there, as this program isn't suitable for that hour. It belongs at 8 or 9PM.
As to sexual content and children, my answer is always the same: If you're a parent, you can control what your children watch. Parents who cop out on that have only themselves to blame.
Carlos, I didn't see the more horrendous stuff in Ramona because that program got switched to daytime from prime time here before the worst of the violence happened. As to the murder of Alejandro it was in the book and couldn't be changed without compromising the integrity of the story.
Your take on the scissors may be because Univision puts more ads in and takes stuff out to make more room for them, as you can't add more minutes to an hour.
I have wondered whether the broadcast hour of PSMA in Mexico (4:15PM) is the reason for its low ratings there, as this program isn't suitable for that hour. It belongs at 8 or 9PM.
As to sexual content and children, my answer is always the same: If you're a parent, you can control what your children watch. Parents who cop out on that have only themselves to blame.
I remember in PEAM when Veronica slapped Valentina twice and the second one was so painful. It's a good thing Veronica got what was coming to her and fell off the cliff she allegedly was going to chuck her daughter off of and ending with the ultimate swirly in prison.
She definitely deserved that. As did Carlota of ENDA when she ended up in a wheelchair doing life without parole.
and Isadora in Amor Bravio being completely defenseless in prison. No hands or gun-tongue to fend off the lesbian prisoners means she would probably die an intense death in a jail fight. A dark and perfect fate for the woman who cut a tongue, killed the "son" she was a mother figure to and seduced the husband of an unsuspecting woman.
Good topic, UA.
I personally, suspend all disbelief when it comes to watching TV/movies; it simply is for entertainment value. IMHO, it is easier to watch violence cuz we generally don't see it around us, therefore, doesn't seem real.
The sex/love scenes are acceptable, esp if tastefully done, and should not be censored, if violence is not. Parents should be in charge of censoring what their children can or cannot watch.
I personally, suspend all disbelief when it comes to watching TV/movies; it simply is for entertainment value. IMHO, it is easier to watch violence cuz we generally don't see it around us, therefore, doesn't seem real.
The sex/love scenes are acceptable, esp if tastefully done, and should not be censored, if violence is not. Parents should be in charge of censoring what their children can or cannot watch.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 4:59:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 4:59:00 PM EDT
I don't have time to write everything I want to say on this topic right now, so I will just ask a couple of questions:
What separates a "hot love scene" from a "hot soft porn" scene? Is one okay and the other not okay? Where/what is the line between them?
What separates a "hot love scene" from a "hot soft porn" scene? Is one okay and the other not okay? Where/what is the line between them?
Yes it seems to me that our tolerance for graphic violence has increased. Even children cartoons are replete with fake violence. The Road runner falls off a cliff cue the laughing track. La Mentira was my first novela and I don't remember such graphic violence. I am tired of rapes, murder and other mayhem the news reports have enough. Novelas are an escape, no?
Romy
Romy
Roomy...I agree completely. Novelas are no longer an escape for me when so much violence is being shown. I prefer the love triangles and family dynamics and people overcoming problems and working toward the lives they want to have.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 7:09:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 7:09:00 PM EDT
Sorry Romy...Ipad changed your name !!!!
Permalink posted by : Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 7:11:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 7:11:00 PM EDT
I don't think there's more violence today, I think some novelas are more violent than others and sometimes there is more and sometimes there is less. I think novelas got more violent here in Mexico towards the end of the 90's and the begining of the 00's, then they stopped when the networks made the agreement of not showing too much blood due to the excessive violence in the news with the war on drugs. Recently, there's been more but is not on the same level yet.
Rape has always been present in telenovelas, unfortunately, so that's not new. In fact, the galán raping the protagonist happened a few decades back day commonly than today: Leonela, Guadalupe, La Indomable, Alma Rebelde, etc. The last time I saw it before LQLVMR was in Amor Real, so hopefully televisa got enough bad feedback for that that they will stop portraying their galán like that.
I do think that the narconovela is a new genre that has gotten popular in the last ten years and it takes some time getting used to. But again, that's the genre and it's easy to avoid them since you know what to expect.
Jarocha
Rape has always been present in telenovelas, unfortunately, so that's not new. In fact, the galán raping the protagonist happened a few decades back day commonly than today: Leonela, Guadalupe, La Indomable, Alma Rebelde, etc. The last time I saw it before LQLVMR was in Amor Real, so hopefully televisa got enough bad feedback for that that they will stop portraying their galán like that.
I do think that the narconovela is a new genre that has gotten popular in the last ten years and it takes some time getting used to. But again, that's the genre and it's easy to avoid them since you know what to expect.
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 7:20:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 7:20:00 PM EDT
Thanks for the topic UA as this has been an on-going discussion on several threats.
In addition to the horrible villains, the galan as rapist (in Robo), while not common thank goodness, is horrible. Moreover, the martial rape has never really been dealt with and the galan still has serious anger issues. And recently, the third wheel, Jose Luis, has been acting like a villain as well.
What makes Robo even more disturbing to me is the violence men do to women, how its naturalized, and how the female villains are made to seem more reprehensible than the male villains. Though Pedro is beyond the pale, the actor who plays EZ makes his character possibly redeemable whereas no one thinks Gracie or Maria (expect for Carlos) can be saved. And the audience is supposed to forgive the galan for his bad behavior. Bottom line its seems very bad behavior for men (even galans) is OK but the same is not true for women.
In addition to the horrible villains, the galan as rapist (in Robo), while not common thank goodness, is horrible. Moreover, the martial rape has never really been dealt with and the galan still has serious anger issues. And recently, the third wheel, Jose Luis, has been acting like a villain as well.
What makes Robo even more disturbing to me is the violence men do to women, how its naturalized, and how the female villains are made to seem more reprehensible than the male villains. Though Pedro is beyond the pale, the actor who plays EZ makes his character possibly redeemable whereas no one thinks Gracie or Maria (expect for Carlos) can be saved. And the audience is supposed to forgive the galan for his bad behavior. Bottom line its seems very bad behavior for men (even galans) is OK but the same is not true for women.
I think Jarocha hit on it: knowing what to expect. I avoid narconovelas because of the violence. If I'm watching a show, it's a little frustrating when violence rears it's ugly head and I am not expecting it.
And someone further up the thread also made a good point--sometimes less is more. In Cachito we only saw the victim dragged to a van and then being released from the van with bruises and tears. It was very clear what had happened and coupled with Esmeralda Pimentel's performance it was very powerful.
Same goes with sex/love scenes. I have seen some smokin' hot scenes in Korean dramas that were far shorter and involved fully clothed actors.
And someone further up the thread also made a good point--sometimes less is more. In Cachito we only saw the victim dragged to a van and then being released from the van with bruises and tears. It was very clear what had happened and coupled with Esmeralda Pimentel's performance it was very powerful.
Same goes with sex/love scenes. I have seen some smokin' hot scenes in Korean dramas that were far shorter and involved fully clothed actors.
I think some of the novelas with over the top villians that do over the top violent crimes, that seem never to get caught until the 125th episode are the most annoying. The violence is bad enought, but there is no real retribution and the good guys take so long to catch is absurd. For example in Corazon Valiente, don't know why I watched it until the end it go more and more riduculus and the main villianess seemed to revel in performing blood spattering killings. Anyway no more of that kind of novela for me.
Interesting topic and comments.
Interesting topic and comments.
The double standard is alive and well south AND north of the border.
Jarifa
Jarifa
Permalink posted by : Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 9:15:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 9:15:00 PM EDT
I think it's a bit hypocritical to complain about violence in novelas and then shake off concerns about sex as puritanicalism, especially when so many here complain about violence being unnecessary. Well, most times sex svenes are unnecessary in most tv shows. When combined with the complaint that parents should monitor their kids with sex scenes since you personally don't want those cut it sounds extra hypocritical. If you don't like the violence, write letters or stop watching.
That being said, I don't watch narconovelas b/c I don't want to promote that genre. I also don't like novelas with lurid sex scenes either. My favorite novelas 'Cuna de Lobos' and 'El Manantial' had none and I loved them because the stories are great. If you have to resort to lurid violence or sex to make a TN work, you're doing a bad job period.
In 'El Manantial' Adela Noriega and Mauricio Islas had smoking chemistry but they never had a sex scene, and you didn't realize it because the story was so good, you didn't lack for chemistry. Plus the fact that Adela's character had been sexually traumatized by another character prevented her from being with the galan character was part of the story as well.
That being said, I don't watch narconovelas b/c I don't want to promote that genre. I also don't like novelas with lurid sex scenes either. My favorite novelas 'Cuna de Lobos' and 'El Manantial' had none and I loved them because the stories are great. If you have to resort to lurid violence or sex to make a TN work, you're doing a bad job period.
In 'El Manantial' Adela Noriega and Mauricio Islas had smoking chemistry but they never had a sex scene, and you didn't realize it because the story was so good, you didn't lack for chemistry. Plus the fact that Adela's character had been sexually traumatized by another character prevented her from being with the galan character was part of the story as well.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 9:58:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 9:58:00 PM EDT
I guess what I'm saying is, if a novela does too much of something that offends you, don't watch whether sex or violence. TV execs give us what we want and shutting stuff off is the best way to express your concerns.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 10:01:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, March 29, 2014 at 10:01:00 PM EDT
I think the telenovelas are just fine as they are. There is some violence, but it's been been present in telenovelas, other tv shows and cartoons for many, many years. Road Runner is not a new cartoon. Mickey Mouse, Popeye, Rocky and Bullwinkle, all had lots of violence. Every generation, kids and teenagers enjoy the violence. Does it hurt their development? That's debatable. Then they grow up, and complain about all the violence on tv. The older they get, the more they complain.
As for sex, telenovelas, even the ones in Mexico that are "uncensored" are super tame by today's standards. They're basically PG, everything is left to the imagination. While some viewers want to see more, the producers have to please the general audience, which includes many who do not want to see more. So they hint at things. And that's fine. If you want to see more explicit sex scenes, there are many Spanish movies that can satisfy such craving.
In sum, I don't think telenovelas have changed much, and I like them the way they are.
As for sex, telenovelas, even the ones in Mexico that are "uncensored" are super tame by today's standards. They're basically PG, everything is left to the imagination. While some viewers want to see more, the producers have to please the general audience, which includes many who do not want to see more. So they hint at things. And that's fine. If you want to see more explicit sex scenes, there are many Spanish movies that can satisfy such craving.
In sum, I don't think telenovelas have changed much, and I like them the way they are.
In some novelas, they've shown lots of body parts during steamy sex scenes.
They almost showed Ximena Navarrette's breasts as she was getting knocked up by William Levy.
They almost showed Ximena Navarrette's breasts as she was getting knocked up by William Levy.
Karen, thank you so much for addressing the double standard. I hate it when male villains can get redemption when female villains can't. I remember in La Tempestad That when Fulgencio died in defense of his son he was forgiven but when Estercita, whose evilness Fulgencio basically created, died she was still evil.
I am glad they don't typically do the "galan raping the heroine" that much. It's actually the reason I stopped watching Lo Que La Vida Me Robo. I can't support an abusive rapist as a protagonist. I think novelas can sometimes get a little violent, but it varies. I'm worried more about how rape scenes an storylines are being handled. Some are truly disturbing. I'm recalling that one in Pasion when Liseta is in the carriage. That was truly haunting and longer than neccesary. Rape should be handled much better since it is such serious issue. I agree Sara, it is handled much better when it is implied.
Cassandra G.
I am glad they don't typically do the "galan raping the heroine" that much. It's actually the reason I stopped watching Lo Que La Vida Me Robo. I can't support an abusive rapist as a protagonist. I think novelas can sometimes get a little violent, but it varies. I'm worried more about how rape scenes an storylines are being handled. Some are truly disturbing. I'm recalling that one in Pasion when Liseta is in the carriage. That was truly haunting and longer than neccesary. Rape should be handled much better since it is such serious issue. I agree Sara, it is handled much better when it is implied.
Cassandra G.
Permalink posted by : Sunday, March 30, 2014 at 4:40:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, March 30, 2014 at 4:40:00 PM EDT
I have to point out one thing about cartoon violence: The Road Runner, Bugs Bunny, and Woody Woodpecker were originally meant for adult audiences. Boomer kids watched them on TV in later years, but I think had a decent perspective on violence and its real-world consequences.
The kind of violence in today's movies, however, is appalling.
LQLVMR hasn't gone into torture porn and I doubt it will. The decapitation in Pasion was historically correct. I don't remember seeing that scene, but I doubt that it was played inappropriately.
The kind of violence in today's movies, however, is appalling.
LQLVMR hasn't gone into torture porn and I doubt it will. The decapitation in Pasion was historically correct. I don't remember seeing that scene, but I doubt that it was played inappropriately.
I haven't been down the novela road as long as some of you but I have seen quite a few. Are the novelas more violent today as in the past? I can't say for sure as I am not a novela historian but for me---I could go with less violence. It seems to me like they are trying to reach the limit and there is no need for that. So my vote is to cut it back, slow it down. You can be bad but let's have a little more decency/civility.
Sex in the cinema---If someone wants or must have sex to look at, there is always soft porn or
the xxx version. As for novelas or
let's say the movies in general---
remember in the "good old days" when sex was only implied? No one was complaining back then and no, there wasn't a rape scene in nearly every movie/novela either.
So I say again---tone it down and the novelas will still turn out just fine.
the gringo
Sex in the cinema---If someone wants or must have sex to look at, there is always soft porn or
the xxx version. As for novelas or
let's say the movies in general---
remember in the "good old days" when sex was only implied? No one was complaining back then and no, there wasn't a rape scene in nearly every movie/novela either.
So I say again---tone it down and the novelas will still turn out just fine.
the gringo
Permalink posted by : Sunday, March 30, 2014 at 11:40:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, March 30, 2014 at 11:40:00 PM EDT
Urban:
Thanks for raising this topic for weekend discussion.
Hombre de Misterio:
How nice to see you, Hombre! I have not noticed telenovelas becoming more sexual.Romance has always been key in melodrama.
Hi, gringo: Great to see you too.
What I HAVE noticed is that the violence that has always been implicit in melodramatic plotting is now SHOWN in a much more GRAPHIC way. It seems that back in the day bad, violent actions took place, but most of the explicit action of, say a man beating a woman, took place off camera. Recapping LQLVMR I have caught a number of epi's recently that were very dark, and especially bloody.
I also feel that the shows used to have a few more 'action' good guys who moved the plot forward.
It seems that now we get whole cabals of bad guys who never seem to be given worthy opponents.
And the good guys spend a lot of time in jails or wringing their hands.
EJ
Thanks for raising this topic for weekend discussion.
Hombre de Misterio:
How nice to see you, Hombre! I have not noticed telenovelas becoming more sexual.Romance has always been key in melodrama.
Hi, gringo: Great to see you too.
What I HAVE noticed is that the violence that has always been implicit in melodramatic plotting is now SHOWN in a much more GRAPHIC way. It seems that back in the day bad, violent actions took place, but most of the explicit action of, say a man beating a woman, took place off camera. Recapping LQLVMR I have caught a number of epi's recently that were very dark, and especially bloody.
I also feel that the shows used to have a few more 'action' good guys who moved the plot forward.
It seems that now we get whole cabals of bad guys who never seem to be given worthy opponents.
And the good guys spend a lot of time in jails or wringing their hands.
EJ
La Paloma:
I think your thought about the OTT violence in video games influencing telenovelas is a good one.
I have no hard data to support a 'yes' on that subject, but it sure resonates with me as intuitively correct.
Surely somebody is studying these things, No?
Urban, what institutions or think tanks are doing good scholarly work on these subjects?
Karen, do you know of media studies being done now to link video gamimg with violence in young men?
EJ
I think your thought about the OTT violence in video games influencing telenovelas is a good one.
I have no hard data to support a 'yes' on that subject, but it sure resonates with me as intuitively correct.
Surely somebody is studying these things, No?
Urban, what institutions or think tanks are doing good scholarly work on these subjects?
Karen, do you know of media studies being done now to link video gamimg with violence in young men?
EJ
I don't know if they are more graphic either. It would be interesting to see a study, I think there is some added cruelty in the villains but the scenes today look less "natural" in their violence than the ones of yesterday. The villanous characters are more like caricatures sometimes (like Tía Carlota in ENDA), so maybe I take them less seriously.
Like, the scene where Carlota in ENDA kills Macarena by throwing her off the balcony and you get that big OTT fall full of special effects that I just couldn't take seriously, while Carlota looked down on her with this cold and evil face. In Cadenas de Amargura the Macarina (named Natalia there) character had such a long and drown out dead scene, she was a diabetic and she was lying in bed slightly blind begging her sister to help her because she felt so bad and Evangelina (Carlota) kills her with an insuline overdose, afraid that just moments before her sister had discovered some of her evil deeds and had promised to leave her alone, after Evangelina realizes that she had just killed her sister and before she actually died you see her suffering having realized what she had just done. I guess you could say the fall is more violent but the insuline overdose and long and painful death of a lovely, good hearted character was just more gutting and it felt more violent.
And just to compare, this scene was made in 1996 *warning: it's bloody*:Fausto's death in Cañaveral de Pasiones
And this is the same scene in 2012: Augusto's death in Abismo de Pasión.
I personally prefer the Cañaveral scene, even if it is more graphic, because I felt it's just overall better made and it set the point of no return for the Dinorah character, who was a three dimentional villain you cared for as a viewer. In contrast, the Carmina character had already killed, she was less sympathetic and she wasn't tormented by her own actions.
So I guess what I personally noticed in these remakes was that the evil characters are just less human, they do more evil deeds and their evilness feels more overwrought but the actual scenes don't seem more graphically violent to me. Not when back in the late 90's you could see decapitations, dismemberments and and very bloody images in some novelas (especially in the historical ones and ones that dealt with drug crimes).
Jarocha
Like, the scene where Carlota in ENDA kills Macarena by throwing her off the balcony and you get that big OTT fall full of special effects that I just couldn't take seriously, while Carlota looked down on her with this cold and evil face. In Cadenas de Amargura the Macarina (named Natalia there) character had such a long and drown out dead scene, she was a diabetic and she was lying in bed slightly blind begging her sister to help her because she felt so bad and Evangelina (Carlota) kills her with an insuline overdose, afraid that just moments before her sister had discovered some of her evil deeds and had promised to leave her alone, after Evangelina realizes that she had just killed her sister and before she actually died you see her suffering having realized what she had just done. I guess you could say the fall is more violent but the insuline overdose and long and painful death of a lovely, good hearted character was just more gutting and it felt more violent.
And just to compare, this scene was made in 1996 *warning: it's bloody*:Fausto's death in Cañaveral de Pasiones
And this is the same scene in 2012: Augusto's death in Abismo de Pasión.
I personally prefer the Cañaveral scene, even if it is more graphic, because I felt it's just overall better made and it set the point of no return for the Dinorah character, who was a three dimentional villain you cared for as a viewer. In contrast, the Carmina character had already killed, she was less sympathetic and she wasn't tormented by her own actions.
So I guess what I personally noticed in these remakes was that the evil characters are just less human, they do more evil deeds and their evilness feels more overwrought but the actual scenes don't seem more graphically violent to me. Not when back in the late 90's you could see decapitations, dismemberments and and very bloody images in some novelas (especially in the historical ones and ones that dealt with drug crimes).
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Monday, March 31, 2014 at 2:16:00 AM EDT
: Monday, March 31, 2014 at 2:16:00 AM EDT
I don't know what think tanks are working on this. I would like to think that there are independent groups of psychologists doing this to further their profession's understanding so that they would know what prevention is required, but that might be contrary to their be$t intere$t$, if you get my drift.
Governments would have their own agendas in looking for this information, as would religious institutions.
As an advertising professional I can tell you that most statistics can be spun to say anything you want them to.
There was a Law & Order episode that dealt with the issue of television violence during a trial and a witness who compared television violence by decade. The conclusion was that the violence in television programs of the 60s had a moral context and showed that "crime doesn't pay." Lots of fictional violence these days seems to pay so that it becomes glamorized. You also wouldn't have seen torture porn back then.
To someone else's earlier comment about female villains suffering worse punishment I think this is probably true in the case of toxic parents. Mothers have the potential to inflict more lasting damage on their children that plays through their adult lives. Most toxic fathers in novelas have limited weapons, their victims are already adults over whom they are feeling loss of control, and their weapons are mostly purse strings, keys, and locks. Mothers inflict psychological damage starting much earlier. That means that many toxic fathers have greater redemption potential. However, I think that peer villains are pretty equal at Karmageddon.
Governments would have their own agendas in looking for this information, as would religious institutions.
As an advertising professional I can tell you that most statistics can be spun to say anything you want them to.
There was a Law & Order episode that dealt with the issue of television violence during a trial and a witness who compared television violence by decade. The conclusion was that the violence in television programs of the 60s had a moral context and showed that "crime doesn't pay." Lots of fictional violence these days seems to pay so that it becomes glamorized. You also wouldn't have seen torture porn back then.
To someone else's earlier comment about female villains suffering worse punishment I think this is probably true in the case of toxic parents. Mothers have the potential to inflict more lasting damage on their children that plays through their adult lives. Most toxic fathers in novelas have limited weapons, their victims are already adults over whom they are feeling loss of control, and their weapons are mostly purse strings, keys, and locks. Mothers inflict psychological damage starting much earlier. That means that many toxic fathers have greater redemption potential. However, I think that peer villains are pretty equal at Karmageddon.
You know, I was watching a lot of UFCS online and I came across Pina's TRAGIC car accident where she was a bloodied mess and due to Vicente no less! She came out kicking out and wasn't affected whatsoever right?
In my opinion the issues of sex and violence are related
since the relaxed view of sex, especially among unmarried young people, has led to an increasing number of children being born into situations in which
they are improperly trained and unsupervised and get into a life of crime, drugs, and violence.
since the relaxed view of sex, especially among unmarried young people, has led to an increasing number of children being born into situations in which
they are improperly trained and unsupervised and get into a life of crime, drugs, and violence.
Permalink posted by : Monday, March 31, 2014 at 10:49:00 AM EDT
: Monday, March 31, 2014 at 10:49:00 AM EDT
If kids get carried into violence its their parents fault for not keeping a close eye on them. Many people turn a blind eye to what is happening with their kids and that is very wrong.For them to be a some new generation who will surpass the old one,proper education and raising is essential otherwise they signed a death warrant. in highschool i have met many immature people ,they act like they are in the market and its all because the parents took a blind eye and because the kids have more rights then obligations ,for every wrong word said by the teachers the bad parents would demand a lawyer and they always say " My son would never do that,you are mistaken,My daughter is very kind and sweet she would never do drugs in school!
The world is spiraling into a wrong direction and we are keeping a blind eye to everything and this wont end well
The world is spiraling into a wrong direction and we are keeping a blind eye to everything and this wont end well
Great comments, Demetrios. Of course it's the parents
fault, but I feel that we all need to do our small part to
improve the situation.l
fault, but I feel that we all need to do our small part to
improve the situation.l
Permalink posted by : Monday, March 31, 2014 at 11:29:00 AM EDT
: Monday, March 31, 2014 at 11:29:00 AM EDT
Great topic UA. It is in the best interest of producers to dial down the violence. Ratings always drop when the violence gets out of control. At the start of LQLVMR, the writing was superb and the violence was tolerable. We couldn't wait to comment. The greed of Mama Graciela was not too bad. Medina was our own in house constipated mayor, but now the violence are turning off viewers. If for the sake of the story violence is called for, must it be so graphic? One can't always blame parents for what their kids are exposed to. Your family values are not always respected in schools on tv and at homes of their friends. We can keep them in caves or teach them our values and hope for the best. violence has permeated every fiber of our society and all we are saying to the tv execs is less is more.
Hanna
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Hanna
Permalink posted by : Monday, March 31, 2014 at 4:51:00 PM EDT
: Monday, March 31, 2014 at 4:51:00 PM EDT
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