Caray, Caray!

Wow, thanks for this heads up. I was thinking about this very subject just a few days ago but hadn't seen news about the vote.

Jeanne
 

Thank you for this. When you think about it, who among us hasn't come from immigrant families? Very few I'll bet. I used to work in a restaurant with some young folk from Mexico. They were full time high school students, worked full time, studied between their shifts, and sent money home to their families. Yep, pretty much the sort of citizens I would want.
 

This bill is just a foot in the door for more amnesty, in that it provides a pathway for legalization for young people, and then indirectly to the undocumented parents who broke our laws in coming/staying here illegally.

As much as I enjoy and sympathize with our undocumented residents, the US simply must put the brakes on illegal immigration to this country. Yes, our ancestors were mostly all immigrants. Some of mine came here before there was a nation. Others came here... LEGALLY. Amnesty as a system rewards law-breakers. Extending it to minors and young people is just an indirect way of providing it to law-breakers who happen to be their parents. And this bill does nada to prevent that happening. And it's simply WRONG... a slap in the face to every immigrant who waited, often for many years, for the opportunity to come here legally.

I'm not anti-immigrant. As a volunteer I spend many hours a week teaching ESL to Spanish-speaking students, both documented and not. The US is a prosperous country and as such attractive to people from all over the world who wish to better their opportunities. There is still a place for foreign workers and immigrants. But it MUST be controlled or we will end up just another 3d world country... we're already headed well in that direction. More amnesty, for any reason, is simply an open invitation to more illegal immigration. And people who cross our borders or extend stays here illegally, whether or not you want to hear it, are lawbreakers. Their children do not have the legal right to be here either. They HAVE countries to go back to. They simply would rather be here, rather be better off.

Our good efforts should go to helping Mexico and other immigrant source countries to better the financial and educational opportunities for their citizens.
 

I am so sick of hearing people say, "they're lawbreakers, criminals, etc."! If we have a system that takes their social security payments without question and puts them in a special fund for wrong social security numbers and we
refuse to enforce our own laws in so many other ways, how much sense does it make to blame THEM for "breaking the law" that we do not care to enforce?

We are complicit in this too. Instead of picking on PEOPLE, especially kids, why not refuse to eat the fruit and vegetables picked by these people? Refuse to buy the meat packed by them or the chickens de-boned by them! Buy all of your food at the expensive organic market.

Not that all immigrants are migrant workers by any stretch but I think it is an example of how we all participate in this capitalist system of wanting the lowest price for everything and then we want to turn around and pick on the people who give us what we wanted.

Yes, we need to start making an immigration policy that works and enforce it but, no, we don't need to pick on the people and call them criminals.

My husband came here from Cuba and got a free pass into this country because we are so crazy over the "Communist Threat" of Fidel Castro. He was airlifted into this country by Catholic Charities along with thousands of others Cuban kids!

So, Cubans are welcome, no questions asked, but our neighbors in Mexico, who are the original owners of California, New Mexico, Nevada, Texas etc. and who came to our aid during Hurricane Katrina are not welcome.

None of this makes any sense!

Our government needs to grow up and face the hard decisions necessary to govern this country and we should be harassing THEM until they do, not bullying people who are desperate to make a living.

Sorry for the rant. Disculpen amigas.
 

Thank you, Kate Perez - that was a work of art!
 

Anonymous, thank you for taking the time to state your point of view. However in my heart I just do not agree with it.

Kate Perez, you rock!
 

You go, Kate. Thanks for signing your comments. I am a volunteer tutor with ESL classes at a local high school. These wonderful students from China, Vietnam, Mexico, Guatemala, Afganistan and so many other places are the best motivated students in the school. We try to get them prepared for college level learning with English and often basic math skills. They work harder than you can believe because they know they have only this one chance to become someone worthy of their family's dreams. Sometimes we need to help them get medical care and believe me we don't ask if they have the right papers or not. These are children that need our help and love. Thanks for bringing this vote to our attention Mama Meli.
 

People who come to the U.S undocumented are lawbreakers. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. There are reasons we have laws and if that's the case why have laws at all if we're just going to let every person who entered this country illegally stay here because they feel they have a right to be here.
 

Anonymous (either of you): I agree with you the Laws are important and should be followed, but we also have to take in consideration the morality of the Law. I’m going to try to explain myself. In the German Nazi there were very strict laws about the Jews, however some citizens decided not to follow them because they considered this laws amoral. I am NOT, and I repeat, I am not comparing what happened then with this situation; this is only an illustration to make my point. We are human beings, not machines; therefore we can judge the different situations. In this case I believe that according with the Declaration of Independence “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness”. I am not very smart, but I think that what this means is that everybody has a right to look for a better life. How would you feel if you were born in a very poor family and were told you could not aspire to more? You would say why? This is America. Now tell me, wouldn’t you want to fight to obtain a better situation than what you were born into? The person that was born in a rich family is not better that you, and they can’t tell you to stay in your current situation just because is more convenient for them. The same way people that are born in different countries and are told, sorry you were born in the wrong country, you are poor and ignorant you have to stay were you are, you have no right to pursue your dreams, better luck next time, pick a better country to be born into; don’t you think that is silly? You could also say that there is a legal way to do things. Tell me, people that hardly speaks Spanish, are they going to be able to jump thru all the hoops that ICE requires to become a legal resident? I don’t know, but I think the USA is a very blessed country, and this blessing comes because all the help the USA gives around the world. There is a higher power and this higher power balances everything. I believe that the same way the Jews were chosen by God to show himself to all humankind; the USA was chosen to show his love and benevolence to all. Haven’t you seen spiderman? “With great power comes great responsibility” :-) Sorry for the tirade, these are my humble 2 cents
 

Kate and Maricruz, thanks for those perspectives.

For both of you Anon folks, I saw Archbishop Desmond Tutu speak in person yesterday. He was mesmerizing, and his entire message was one of working together and reconciliation. He exhorted us to embrace each other, stop violence, and help each other.

Let me leave you with this thought from Archbishop Tutu yesterday:

"Forgiveness is NOT for sissies."

Let's forgive, embrace and move on. TOGETHER!

Jeanne
 

Ahem, Maricruz I think you ARE very smart.
 

The immigration issue is a complex which evokes a lot of emotion but one has to be realistic about what can be done. Until Mexico and South America can improve their economies there will be illegal immigration. Its easy to cross the border.

There are millions around the world especially in Africa who would also love a better standard of living and avoid wars. Many of them are going to Europe which is also trying to cope with this issue. As a former South African, I greatly admire Tutu but the situation there was quite different. Now that they have reached a political settlement, South Africa is also having to deal with the issue of illegal immigration. Much of the present crime there is blamed on illegal immigration - see a pattern?

The practical reality is that the USA has 10 - 20 million illegal immigrants. So what is to be done about them. They cannot all be deported. The USA does not have the resources to do this. So some type of accommodation has to be reached. The problem of future illegal immigration likely cannot be resolved either while people can cross the border so easily.

Incidentally in my first life, I was a History and Latin teacher in South Africa.
 

Great! Lets give amnesty again to all the illegals.
Why have immigration laws at all?
Why have borders?
 

Hi, everyone--

One of our state Senators has an office in our town, and his staffer for this part of the state attends our local service club that I attend. At the weekly luncheon today, I asked her to convey to her boss my strong feelings in support of allowing the immigrant children who were brought to this country years ago as minors by their parents to be afforded opportunities for citizenship and college assistance. She took my business card so she’d remember to do it this afternoon. According to the staffer, the DREAM vote was regarding whether this will be a topic they take up. She seemed to think there is still time to express feelings (I was tied up yesterday and couldn’t get it done).

Jeanne
 

Wow, this is all very interesting. Anon 1 makes really good points. Kate makes really good points. Lynne from South Africa rightly points out this is not even remotely the same issue as what her country experienced. Maricruz also makes good points, and definitely acknowledges the human component to all this, but actually, the Declaration of Independence is only applicable to citizens of the US, to say nothing of its historical context and original intent.

The immigration issue is way too complicated to even address in a blog comment, I mean, if we could solve it here, do you think the whole country would have such an issue? So very briefly (though STILL long) I’ll just raise a couple of things that grab my attention.

One, I don’t believe that being against a path to citizenship for children of illegal immigrants equals saying they are inferior and not entitled to better themselves and attain the American dream. That’s a confusion of the issue. To add to that, a moral issue is not always a legal issue, and likewise a legal issue can not always have the highest moral solution, though that is, of course, generally the objective. Again, I’m just scraping the surface in my comments here, but hopefully it gives you to ponder.

Taking it to an extreme in practical terms, everyone in the world who wants a better life can not live in the United States of America. Really, imagine that. You think home prices, land prices, and water bills and groceries, etc. are expensive now? What if you were competing with 6.6 billion people for resources right here? Come on, I know this illustration sounds nuts, and we have a global economy anyway, but if everyone in the world has a moral right to be HERE, well …where do you stop? This scenario has already been playing out at an exponentially lower level to this day. If you doubt me, research the effects of population growth on regional prices, water availability, food, economic opportunities, societal pressures, violence and so forth. It’s naïve to ignore this aspect of an immigration policy.

Anyway, all this being said, the US does have the reality of approximately 500,000 (estimates vary) children of illegal immigrants attending or who have attended public K-12 schools in this country who have already been guaranteed that right to primary education by the US Supreme Court. In addition, a child coming here at one year of age, or even 12, has very little to no control over their own destiny, and their parents' actions aren't their fault; they can't exactly say, "No Mommy, you are breaking the law going to that country and I'm going to stay here by myself because I'll be without papers and someday might have to leave."

Many of these children are as American as anyone else and maybe don't even speak the language of their parents' homeland so would essentially be going back to a foreign place where they know no one if they weren't allowed to stay or gain access to a means to make a living here.

It's a tragedy for them, and a position I feel incredibly fortunate not to be in, as a child of immigrants, but in all honesty, not a tragedy created necessarily by the US government (unless you consider previous lax immigration control as a government non-action, which it could be under the theory that if you were able to keep them out in the first place, their children would not be here now in this predicament), but rather a sad consequence of the risks their parents took coming here outside of the legal channels.

The problem is that there is no good solution to the problem. I know that's a sort of cop out statement, but really it's the sad truth, everyone can not be made happy.

To me I agree it is wrong to reward illegal immigration, and I do agree this act does that by offering a path to citizenship for those brought here illegally, but on the other hand, it rewards children who had that decision made for them and are already here, between the ages of 12 and 30, who want to join our military and fight for our country, or go to college and educate themselves to contribute to society and in some sense pay back this country for it’s free primary education to them, and it has several requirements of staying out of criminal trouble during the six year provisional status, etc. If the act applies to a limited number of young people, and will not be a continuing benefit for future generations ad infinitem, then it may do little to induce more illegal immigration. I guess that remains to be seen, however, because the senate rejected the bill yesterday anyway. The issue will be back, I'm sure, along with it's host of yea and nay sayers.
 

Most of us are descendants from immigrants to this country.
If the US has a chance to educate the current population further it will only help everyone in the country--it does not matter where the person originally came from.
Does anyone wonder why this current immigrant problem has increased so much in the last 10 years? I believe the US is the cause for it--yes--NAFTA. This caused so many farmers in Mexico to be suddenly broke--their only way to survive was to head north.
No easy task to cross the desert!
I live in Tucson--so I know about
desert. Nancy
 

Her family came to this country when she was less than one year old? Dam#! Her family had 20 years to save emough money to send the kid her to college, or she could saved till she had enough, that being 20, 30, 40 or even 50 years old. I'm 65 and just started college courses. Why the heck should my taxes pay for her college? Get her a$$ off the sofa and she can work for her own college!I called my Senator and said, NO! to the Dream Act! MY Dream Act is to get the Illegals off MY back! P.S Caray! is not a place for to to push your political agenda! The DREAM ACT didn't pass, anyway. Americans aren't that dumb.
Read here the truth about The Dream Act.

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_102407/content/01125110.guest.html
 

I live in Detroit and many blame Nafta for causing harm to the auto industry by being too accommodating to Nafta. So people are pro or con it according to their agenda. Its a global market and we have to deal with it.

Neither political party is prepared to face up to the reality. 10 - 20 million illegals and likely to grow. We can't send them back - too expensive - so the problem continues and grows. Splutter, rage on either side .. no one has a plan that will be accepted .. so the problems grows ...

Incidentally I wonder if anyone realizes exactly how difficult it is to immigrate legally, how many years it takes and how expensive it can be with lawyers etc.
 

Lynne, it is difficult to immigrate legally. My son-in-law is from a small country in West Africa. It took him most of a decade, even married to my stepdaughter and with two children, to be allowed to become a citizen. Not to mention the test, which of course isn't in three of the four languages he speaks, but in his least fluent language of the four. He's a good worker, peaceful individual, good father, and only wanted a better life than in his country, which is war and graft-torn.

Difficulty for immigration is not unique to the US. I was recruited to New Zealand about twelve years ago and discovered it would be impossible. Their restrictions were huge and my husband wouldn't qualify due to his health. My brother lives in Germany, and as I understand it, he cannot become German nor can his children--one of whom was born there and not on a military base.

Many, if not most, nations have significant restrictions for immigration. It's not unique to the US, as I said.

Jeanne
 

Thanks Jeanne, I realize that it is difficult in most countries. However, many of my American friends do not realize this. Most of the immigrants who come here illegally would not qualify to immigrate. However, there is still a need for unskilled labour and that is why some other type of program is needed.
 

I say we do a trade system. Kick out all the existing citizens who loaf, either mooch off the government ot cause trouble for society, and for each one of them, allow a hardworking person who wants to do good, into the country. Net population gain 0, net quality of life gain, immeasurable.

Who cares where we send the bad ones, a ticket somewhere (say Antarctica even) is cheaper than their cost to society. I'd much rather have here the ones who value what this country has to offer and appreciate it by working hard and providing for their familes.

That would be my DREAM ACT!! Oh well. :)
 

Melinama--- Thank you so much for posting this. You rock, as the kids say. Thank you for believing in their future and in ours. It's funny, but I have learned the most about patriotism and love of our country not from those of us born here, but from those who having been born elsewhere have chosen to be here.

VV
 

Hello to all who posted comments, either pro or con, regarding the Dream Act. I was unaware of it. I appreciate reading the comments of the Destilando Amor aficionados regading the Act in this blog, and I think that using the blog as a place to raise and discuss the issue is appropriate in this case.

I first studied Espanol in la escuela secondaria publica (muchissimos anos pasados), then continued studying Spanish and Linguistics (including a bit of French, German, Sanskrit and American Sign Language in my city's local state university. I then taught English in Japan for a year and a half, and returned to study Japanese at the state university located in my state's capital. In my own city, I have taught ESL through the public school system to various adult immigrants, of hispanic, Asian and European backgrounds. I cherish the work and the time that I have spent with these students, most of whom have been highly motivated and hard-working, despite the challenges of their lives. I have taught ESL and Japanese at my local community college, and I now teach Japanese to students at a highly-regarded, private university in my area. I enjoy teaching and watching students develop real abilities using language, and also enjoy seeing how developing their linguistic abilities and cultural knowledge leads to further growth and opportunites in areas that might have been unknown or unconsidered by them.

As an person who has benefitted from a public education, I do support providing educational opportunities for all members of the human society here in the USA. I make regular (yearly)contributions to my state universities to support graduate and undergraduate education, and to special programs that provide pre-university experience to minority students who come from families without higher educational background.

Anyway, to bring my blathering to a close, I think our society benefits by providing educationl opportunites to the broad range of citizens and residents of our country. For this reason, I would support the Dream Act.

And to get back to the blog's raison d'etre, I really went gaga over Destilando Amor when I discovered in this past summer while recuperating from a broken ankle. It is funny and the situations and characters are pretty over-the-top, but lately, ay caray, Rod has definitely been going beyond nutso. Pero, es muy divertido.

La Peliroja