Caray, Caray!

Carlos, this is brilliant! It only reinforces the notion that Cristóbal should get out of that religious order and join the enlightenment.
 

Where those Crístobal's papers they were burning?
 

Were

boy I can't type or spell today
 

From the last post susanlynn said... "Also, I think that the little boy playing Rafael was the boy in FELS."

I'm not sure he is. That kid only has two acting credits and the first was FELS. I looked at the photo and he doesn't look the same as this little one. Plus someone else mentioned this kid is the nephew of one of the actresses. He probably doesn't have any actig credits after this tn. He was just a convenient 2 yr old.

But the litte boy that was in Amor Real was also in Pasion, he was also Javier in LLena de Amor, and was in Corazon Salvage, as well as a bunch of other tns (including Frijolito with Mauricio Ochman where he was in the starring role as Frijolito). He's obviously a popular actor. His name is Alejandro Felipe.

Looking forward to getting home to see today's episode.
 

I wish I knew what type of monk or friar Cristóbal is supposed to be. He looks a lot like St. Serapion in the painting by Zurburán. St. Serapion's dates are 400 years earlier though. He was a Mercedarian friar who fought in the third Crusade. I know the Mercedarians were in Perú, so I guess it's reasonable to suppose they could have been in Mexico as well. I would have thought Dominican except for their black outer robes.

Hah, my word verification is: friatis
 

Great screen shot, links and comments. I love it when you guys quote Monty Python.
 

Variopinta~~~I think that the brothers were burning books. The Catholic church fought against The Enlightenment and scientific advances. Luis , on the other hand, is very interested in science and new discoveries, and Cristobal has his pharmacy and tries to treat people's medical problems. As someone said, Cris has a different path to follow even though right now, he is very upset with his dismissal from the church.
 

You have to feel a little for Perla. You can tell that she's never had much by the way she was hugging those knick knacks in the little casa Luis bought her. And now, Martin knows that the little boy is Hip's. He just doesn't know that Luis is the babydaddy. I like the scene between Felipe and his wife. It's nice to see married couples who are still novios after many years together. That's always my advice to newlyweds..never stop being novios.
 

I definitely feel for Perla. I don't blame her for having fantasies about being Luis's squeeze for many years to come and now being disappointed because she has been usurped. She doesn't yet know what it is like to be someone's one and only. Hopefully if she experiences this then it will help change her perspective.

I don't like Diego's interest in Marina.

I find Martin to be much more interesting as a character this time around. Yes he is a bit petulant and immature, however his refusal to simply accept his lot in life, i.e. the status to which he was born, is a very progressive way of thinking. I'm sure his schooling in Spain, which must have been shortly after the French Revolution, had something to do with his current mindset.

Martin's relationship with Luis is complex. Yes, Luis is a progressive thinker, however he still casually throws his weight around and seems to function within the defined parameters of his class. I think Martin's insistence in not blindly obeying Luis is making it uncomfortable not only for Martin's family but also for Luis. Luis probably has viewed himself as Martin's protector or mentor and now Martin is fighting for his independence. Hipolita is the catalyst but I suspect it would only have been a matter of time before Martin, fresh from his return from the more modern Spain, started rocking the boat back in his home town.
 

Has anyone mentioned the parallels between Martin and Perla?

Just like Martin, Perla:
* has a rival that outclasses her, by a long shot.
* believes that if the rival would disappear, per beloved would come running back to her.
* loudly and wildly hurls insults about her rival.
* Owes a huge debt to Luis, but that fact has no influence on her decisions.

There are probably more parallels, but that's all I can think of at the moment.
 

Does anyone know what the papers were that the monks were burning??
 

PHOOEY AND DOUBLE PHOOEY!!!

Disk error! ARRGGG! The disk on which I recorded Cap 17 through today's has an error and refuses to play. You know, the episodes which contain all the parts of Luis breaking through with Hipolita? All gone. Waaaaaahhhhh!!!
 

Sylvia- I've been sympathetic to Martin's rebelliousness from the start, and less warm to Marcos' tow the line attitude (although I think he's hot). Fight the power Martin!

But I am less sympathetic towards Perla. She's got her freedom, her own house (most could not say that), her health, her looks, a bunch of people looking out for her, and Luis helping her get a real profession. That's a heck of a lot more she could have ever expected out of life as an orphan and prostitute. She should be content and praising the good Lord for her good luck.
 

Variopinta, It looked to me as though they were tearing pages out of books and tossing them on the fire. So those were pages, not papers. If you've ever tried to burn a book, you will see that it doesn't burn very well. It just tends to smolder and smoke until you separate it into smaller pieces.
 

Martín's plight breaks my heart.
 

Thanks for the info about the young actor, Vivi. I thought I saw a resemblance, but I have to admit that I'm not great at recognizing kids!

Asunción's simpering really seems over-the-top to me. She cringes so intensely that I can feel myself cringing involuntarily as I watch. (If I'm not mistaken, she's the same actress who was Aarón's mother in Destilando Amor - kind of an awful woman! I bet she had a lot more fun in that role! I think Felipe was Aarón's father in Destilando too, yes? And Vicente was Elvis - I'd recognize that voice even if I didn't know his face.)

Capt'n Sharkbait - I think what you are saying about Martin is that Luis sees their relationship as a patron/client deal (remember from our old Fea discussions), whereas Martin craves a peer relationship. I sympathize with him in theory; but in reality, it's quite uncommon, and not necessarily ideal, to have that kind of partnership with one's boss.
 

...however, I didn't know that (about boss relationships) when I was Martin's age, either. So I know just how he feels. Which, I guess, is why I want to smack him in the head, because I wish someone would have talked some sense into me, too!
 

Julie, Francisco is a barbarian. If I were married to him, I would simper too.
 

Paula, BUMMER about your DVR not recording. I like your comparisons between Martin and Perla.

I'm not completely supporting Martin's actions and certainly the way in which he behaves is not very proactive, realistic or sensible, however I admire those people who push boundaries because they are the ones who can eventually cause change. I, too, recall being a bit of a hothead at that age. I'm not sure it did me much good.
 

Variopinta, I watched that scene several times as I was trying to get a good photo. They were definitely burning books, tearing out the pages and throwing them on the fire, but there were also loose sheets of paper as well that were being tossed on the fire as well. No explanation was given, but I thought that it was a terrifying and powerful scene. Cristabol must have thought so as well since he paused and quietly watched for a while.

Carlos
 

Lxv - point taken, but if I were married to Francisco, I would smother him with a pillow.
 

Hee, I was thinking that if I were married to Francisco I might accidentally spike his dandelion green salad with some jimson weed or hemlock. Oopsie!
 

ACK! I just saw Diego grope Marina on his way out of the room. Jerk. I'm trying to decide what I want him to die of. A social disease seems likely, but I'm sure there will also be a waiting list of people who want to kill him in various ways long before we get to episode 89.
 

Julie, thank you for the reminder about patron/client. Luis takes his patron responsibilities to those in his care very seriously, even to the point of surrendering himself to protect Martin. And Marcos is probably his most classic client, because his first priority is supporting his patron.

In the original patron/client structure (Helenistic times), it was also the patron who arranged jobs and marriages for his clients' children. We see that here -
Juana got Asuncion's daughter into the convent.
Francisco went to (Juana or Diego?) for a job for his son.
Luis provided an education and job for Felipe's son.
Luis wants to provide Perla with a career.
 

The actress playing Asuncion is in another novela right now. I think it's Cuando . She has thick bangs and looks very different. I don't think that I've seen Perla in any other novela, but I believe that someone said that she had been a beauty pagent winner. I've seen Felipe in several novelas. I miss seeing Edgardo in novelas. Isn't he on ''Hoy'' now ?
 

Yes, the actress who play Asuncion (Olivia Bucio) is in Cuando. I feel like she's in everything I watch, she really gets around! She is a wonderful singer and was also the Mother Abbess in the fairly recent DF production of Sound of Music (La Novicia Rebelde).
 

Olivia Bucio was also the aunt in El Manantial... with Adela Noriega and Mauricio Islas.
And I dont think she is in Cuando, maybe in Teresa?

Regarding Luis and Martin, I see the patron/client point of view for Luis' side... But since Martin has fallen for Hipo and still believes he worthy of fighting for her, he is rebellious with Luis. Luis, on the other hand, feels like he needs to give Martin 'his spot on the race' even though the times would give Luis all kinds of advantages ... Hipo said it yesterday, she has fallen for Luis and besides, Luis is the one with the status, money and connections to help her get out of the hole she is in...
 

Interesting that they would burn books with no explanation, or discussion between the monks.
 

The smile Hip gave Luis when he came to see her at Cristobal's was a sure sign that she has fallen for him. The turning point was when he told her that he was having Cris and Felipe take Rafael from Las Tunas and install Ada and Rafael at Cristobal's where the little boy would be cared for and protected. Hip had just told Luis that she was very worried about Rafael because Francisco was mean. However, Hip doesn't know that Luis rescued the boy not only for Hip but because he is his son. I got a kick out of the women fussing over Rafael dressed in his fancy new powdre blue suit. Having dressed several children, I can only imagine what a job it was getting the little guy into that outfit. Also, I loved watching Luis write Rafael's name on the blackboard....so endearing and revealing of Luis's loving character. This novela is full of such charming touches.
 

Agreed, it is those little touches that make this telenovela a real gem. Nothing is random. Even the book-burning scene that seemed to come out of nowhere served a couple of purposes. It showed 1) an activity that the church was doing at the time and 2) since it is the complete antithesis of what Cristobal is all about (increased knowledge) it helped show him that maybe his place is not in the church after all. I like that they don't hit us over the head with explanations for everything. If we have to think about it then the scene has more impact.

Marta, Olivia Bucio plays Ines in CME.
 

oh yeah i forgot her... sorry.
 

It's that big old wig she wears, it covers the top half of her face, LOL!
 

I don't think of monks as chatty types. Some even take vows of silence in addition to the standard obedience poverty & chastity
 

Yeah, and if they burn books regularly, there may not be much to discuss about it.
 

Julie, you're too funny! I'm glad Cristobal got the boot, or the slipper, or whatever monks wear. Now he's free to woo and save Catalina.
 

Julie, I was quietly reading the comments since yesterday and ran smack into:

"Yeah, and if they burn books regularly, there may not be much to discuss about it."

Sometimes you really crack me up.

Carlos
 

besides, they burn people on a fairly regular basis, what's a few books here and there? ho hum.