Wednesday, November 27, 2019
Weekend Discussion 11/27/19: Comparing Cunas
There are only two versions of this
story to my knowledge. The original Cuna de Lobos (1986)
was so hugely popular that the streets of Mexico city were dead on
the night of its finale. This was also at a time when Televisa had
no real competition and there were fewer channels to watch. The
story defied previous attempts at a remake due to many changes in
scientific research and technology, not to mention a previous attempt
by the wrong producer.
I have only seen the original up to
episode 52 (out of 85) but even without the later details I agree
with everyone that 25 episodes are not enough to tell this story.
However, the seeds of a good remake are in the current one due to
most of the following changes:
The Larios Family
The current version has most of the
family younger than their counterparts in the original. The same age
difference between Jose Carlos and Alejandro is in effect. What
appears to be different is that the business owned by Carlos in the
original is one formed several generations before him instead of by
him, so the family's money is much older. In keeping with current
trends at Televisa, their residence is more modern in the current
version.
The codicil in Carlos' will in the
current version demands a two-year deadline for the grandson, which
escalates the actions of the affected characters. In the previous
version he names a yet-unconceived first grandson as his heir (now –
and possibly then – illegal under Mexican law). In both Catalina
is trustee of the inheritance.
Catalina Creel: Maria Rubio (1986)
/ Paz Vega (2019)
Despite the shorter length of the
current version, she has more murder victims, 14 – possibly more –
vs. 7. She is also younger and beautiful, a former model and
therefore capable of using sex as a weapon. Both have a wardrobe of
eye patches with the original having one to match every outfit. They
are applied with adhesive despite the obvious wig. She has a
different list of accomplices / enablers and is also far more
sadistic. More about her below.
Jose Carlos Larios: Gonzalo Vega
(1986) / Gonzalo Garcia Vivanco
He is a gambling addict in the original
and a substance abuser at the outset of the current version. In both
he has a contentious relationship with his brother. He reconciles
with Alejandro in the current version prior to Alejandro's death. In
both versions he survives.
Alejandro Larios: Alejandro Camacho
(1986) / Diego Amozurrutia
In the original he is married to Vilma
(Rebecca Jones), a socially-appropriate woman whom he seems to love,
but who is unable to conceive. Together they concoct a plot for him
to impregnate another woman and steal the baby. In the current
version he is bisexual and involved with a man, Miguel (Juan Pablo
Minor) whom he is expected to renounce because his father's will
specified expectation of marriage to a decent woman. In both
versions he is a trusted employee in the family business although in
the current version he is kept in the dark about the illegal diamond
dealings and human trafficking. In both versions he and his
significant other are killed by his mother; a bomb planted on an
engine of the company plane (himself) and being pushed off an
unfinished construction proect (Miguel) in the current one. Jarifa
to supply information about the original.
Leonora Navarro: Diana Bracho
(1986) / Paulette Hernandez (2019)
The original Leonora is a secretary at
an engineering firm who is not financially comfortable due to having
to take care of an ailing relative. She appears to be educated
beyond the need of her job and has refined tastes, such as classical
music and opera. However, she is unaware of Alejandro being married
because she has never read the society page of the newspaper (a WTF
moment there). He deceives her into thinking he is single and in
love with her. The current one works for the newspaper and has no
one left from her dysfunctional family of origin. She is unaware of
Miguel until it's too late. The original is locked in an insane
asylum immediately after the baby is stolen from her and is stuck
there for a year. She begins seeking revenge upon her release. When
she becomes involved with Jose Carlos she does not tell him of her
history with his brother. Jarifa to supply information on whether
they are together in the finale. The current Leonora is framed for
Miguel's murder but released when Jose Carlos and Luis uncover the
appropriate evidence.
Cinematography: Far superior in
the current version due to current technologies to enable it.
Production Style: Color is
given a role in the current version. Lots of red in Catalina's
wardrobe for its obvious symbolism. Earth colors for Leonora in this
version, showing her to be the good, down-to-earth person she is.
Writing: Update was
appropriate, but we hoped for a stronger Leonora.
Music: Kudos for using the
original title music in a better arrangement and the original music
in the new series provides shades of Alfred Hitchcock, film noir, and James Bond.
On that note
=
The
writers of this version made Catalina into a James Bond villain. She
even looks like one. She is efficient, like Emilio Largo, and
upwardly mobile. She is seductive and gets off on violence, like
Xenia Onatopp, and her sadistic nature and homicidal creativity
makes her outdo Rosa Klebb. I'm surprised she didn't make weapons of
her stiletto-heeled shoes. Per the Karmageddon page she had an
impressive list of weapons.
More will follow in the comments.
Labels: cuna
Comments:
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Catalina,. is a sociopath who thinks the rules of society don't apply to her. She is also a psychopath who does not care about the feelings and emotions of others. This is a seriously dangerous combination. This is why she thinks nothing of murdering anyone who gets in the way of whatever she wants. This is also why she allowed little Edgar to cry his heart out while preventing Leonora from picking him up. That child recognized his mother.
Catalina's only emotional need is for power and control. She is incapable of love. If she remains at large and raises her grandson she will do the same or worse job with him as she did with his father.
She may not know this because she is not as self-aware as a normal person, but she likely resents normal women like Leonora: Normal women who can love and especially ones whose livelihood is not dependent on the sexual approval of men.
The original Catalina comes off to me as having grown up in privilege and therefore has not dealt well with societal "interlopers." It is possible that the "revised" Catalina came up from nothing and discovered that Leonora also did, as she became successful despite coming from a severely dysfunctional environment. Catalina said "You remind me of myself at your age" and that could have been partially true. However, most narcissists see the ability to love as evidence of weakness.
Catalina's only emotional need is for power and control. She is incapable of love. If she remains at large and raises her grandson she will do the same or worse job with him as she did with his father.
She may not know this because she is not as self-aware as a normal person, but she likely resents normal women like Leonora: Normal women who can love and especially ones whose livelihood is not dependent on the sexual approval of men.
The original Catalina comes off to me as having grown up in privilege and therefore has not dealt well with societal "interlopers." It is possible that the "revised" Catalina came up from nothing and discovered that Leonora also did, as she became successful despite coming from a severely dysfunctional environment. Catalina said "You remind me of myself at your age" and that could have been partially true. However, most narcissists see the ability to love as evidence of weakness.
The current Leonora is an independent woman of principles. That she fails to shoot Catalina not once but three times is not evidence of weakness; she is protecting her own conscience. At worst it is naivete about the existence of such evil. She wanted to move from fashion and societal photography to the crime beat and boy, did she get a taste of it. It's even more difficult when one sees it up close and personal, like this.
Jarifa will have to explain how the original Leonora got revenge on Catalina and Alejandro for using her the way they did.
Jarifa will have to explain how the original Leonora got revenge on Catalina and Alejandro for using her the way they did.
1986 Version Part One:
The over-arching unifying plot is Catalina’s loss of an eye. Truth be told, she never lost it. José Carlos who was a child accidentally hit her in the eye with it. The truth is he hit her above her eye. The doctor suggested she wear a patch for a while and she then started matching her patches to her clothes and never took it off. Okay. The truth is that she used it to her advantage and to control José Carlos and torture him with guilt. She never let him forget what he (her stepson) had done to her. He never matured emotionally craving the love of his step-mother or any mother and ended up a gambler. Even as a grown man he seems a child in her presence. This to me was the horror and depravity that I found in the character of Catalina Creel. Characters who found out the truth about Catalina’s eye, didn’t last long enough to tell the truth. Stripping this major plot line from the 2019 novela, robbed it of its essence IMHO.
At the start, Catalina’s husband tells her he has found out her “secret” and is totally disgusted. He informs her he is changing his will and then filing for divorce. That does not sit well with Catalina. He manages to update his will but his plans to file for divorce never happen because Catalina poisons his orange juice ASAP. His funeral takes place ASAP and Catalina insists there is no need for an autopsy. It hard to be a heart attack.
Alejandro shows himself to be very much his other’s son and is quite independent. He comes up with the idea of impregnating and having a fake marriage to Leonora all on his own. Even Catalina is shocked by the idea. His wife Vilma is a reluctant accomplice but never leaves him and welcomes little Edgar as her own.
Leonora is very naïve at the start and lives with her godmother who is present thought out the entire novela. She is swept away by Alejandro and his attentions. Her baby disappears after she has given birth at a private clinic. She spends time at a mental hospital. When she leaves, she is a force to be reckoned with, on a mission to reclaim her baby. She marries José Carlos and ends up in Alejandro’s and Catalina’s face where they all live together. She refuses to shrink from and give into Catalina and her threats.
The over-arching unifying plot is Catalina’s loss of an eye. Truth be told, she never lost it. José Carlos who was a child accidentally hit her in the eye with it. The truth is he hit her above her eye. The doctor suggested she wear a patch for a while and she then started matching her patches to her clothes and never took it off. Okay. The truth is that she used it to her advantage and to control José Carlos and torture him with guilt. She never let him forget what he (her stepson) had done to her. He never matured emotionally craving the love of his step-mother or any mother and ended up a gambler. Even as a grown man he seems a child in her presence. This to me was the horror and depravity that I found in the character of Catalina Creel. Characters who found out the truth about Catalina’s eye, didn’t last long enough to tell the truth. Stripping this major plot line from the 2019 novela, robbed it of its essence IMHO.
At the start, Catalina’s husband tells her he has found out her “secret” and is totally disgusted. He informs her he is changing his will and then filing for divorce. That does not sit well with Catalina. He manages to update his will but his plans to file for divorce never happen because Catalina poisons his orange juice ASAP. His funeral takes place ASAP and Catalina insists there is no need for an autopsy. It hard to be a heart attack.
Alejandro shows himself to be very much his other’s son and is quite independent. He comes up with the idea of impregnating and having a fake marriage to Leonora all on his own. Even Catalina is shocked by the idea. His wife Vilma is a reluctant accomplice but never leaves him and welcomes little Edgar as her own.
Leonora is very naïve at the start and lives with her godmother who is present thought out the entire novela. She is swept away by Alejandro and his attentions. Her baby disappears after she has given birth at a private clinic. She spends time at a mental hospital. When she leaves, she is a force to be reckoned with, on a mission to reclaim her baby. She marries José Carlos and ends up in Alejandro’s and Catalina’s face where they all live together. She refuses to shrink from and give into Catalina and her threats.
1986 Part 2
José Carlos starts to notice some troubling things about his stepmother and starts to suspect her in his father’s death. After Catalina has an accident, the doctor tells him that Catalina has TWO healthy eyes. From that point on, José Carlos is a new man. He makes sure Catalina knows that he has found out about her eye, plays mind games with her and actively works against her.
Vilma is dying from cancer and returns little Edgar to Leonora to protect him from Catalina and Alejandro. In the meantime, Catalina does not know about the transfer of the child and has planted explosives on the plane that Leonor and José Carlos are going to fly out of town. She is not aware either that Leonor and José Carlos have given up their flight so Alejandro can take Vilma to Houston for a cancer treatment. When she hears that Alejandro is dead and as the police detective waits to take her in (for the death of Inspector Suarez who she pushed in the pool and electrocuted when she threw in a running lawn mower in after him), Catalina decides to commit suicide with a cocktail of orange juice and poison. It is just like the one she prepared for her husband. The police find Catalina disguised in a blond wig , a black raincoat and full make up minus the eye patch. She had worn that disguise when up to no good several times in the novela. José Carlos tells Leonora that if Catalina had not killed herself, he would have done it for her.
Five years later:
José Carlos and Leonora are still together living at the mansion with their two sons. Little Edgar has been renamed Braulio. Catalina’s suite is kept closed up and locked. Braulio steals the key from the maid and the boys go into the suite to explore.The novela ends when Braun’s little brother calls out his name. Braulio turns around with one of Catalina’s patches on his eye and tells his little brother that he is not Braulio. He is little Edgar. We then see “Fin?” As Braulio’s face changes to a black and red graphic rendition. Very 80’s but very effective.
José Carlos starts to notice some troubling things about his stepmother and starts to suspect her in his father’s death. After Catalina has an accident, the doctor tells him that Catalina has TWO healthy eyes. From that point on, José Carlos is a new man. He makes sure Catalina knows that he has found out about her eye, plays mind games with her and actively works against her.
Vilma is dying from cancer and returns little Edgar to Leonora to protect him from Catalina and Alejandro. In the meantime, Catalina does not know about the transfer of the child and has planted explosives on the plane that Leonor and José Carlos are going to fly out of town. She is not aware either that Leonor and José Carlos have given up their flight so Alejandro can take Vilma to Houston for a cancer treatment. When she hears that Alejandro is dead and as the police detective waits to take her in (for the death of Inspector Suarez who she pushed in the pool and electrocuted when she threw in a running lawn mower in after him), Catalina decides to commit suicide with a cocktail of orange juice and poison. It is just like the one she prepared for her husband. The police find Catalina disguised in a blond wig , a black raincoat and full make up minus the eye patch. She had worn that disguise when up to no good several times in the novela. José Carlos tells Leonora that if Catalina had not killed herself, he would have done it for her.
Five years later:
José Carlos and Leonora are still together living at the mansion with their two sons. Little Edgar has been renamed Braulio. Catalina’s suite is kept closed up and locked. Braulio steals the key from the maid and the boys go into the suite to explore.The novela ends when Braun’s little brother calls out his name. Braulio turns around with one of Catalina’s patches on his eye and tells his little brother that he is not Braulio. He is little Edgar. We then see “Fin?” As Braulio’s face changes to a black and red graphic rendition. Very 80’s but very effective.
As you can tell, I enjoyed the portrayal of Leonora growing into a woman of action and not totally useless as I came to see her character in the 2019 version. The same goes for the portrayal of José Carlos.
Anyway, it was fun watching, discussing and recapping the 2019 version and if I had not seen and loved the original, I would have been much happier with this tale.
Anyway, it was fun watching, discussing and recapping the 2019 version and if I had not seen and loved the original, I would have been much happier with this tale.
Gracias, Jarifa.The one thing that bothered me about the new version is that since Catalina had been a model why would she not have had a glass eye? Obviously the idea of someone faking the loss of an eye was rejected by the writers of the new series.
When they showed the flashback to the injury I was sure the point went too high, but the writers probably wanted to give themselves wiggle room on this one.
Both do come in with the airplane explosion death for Alejandro and coming back to the death of Carlos 1986 with the poisoned orange juice and 2019 with the yacht.
When they showed the flashback to the injury I was sure the point went too high, but the writers probably wanted to give themselves wiggle room on this one.
Both do come in with the airplane explosion death for Alejandro and coming back to the death of Carlos 1986 with the poisoned orange juice and 2019 with the yacht.
Oh Jarifa, thank you so much for all the information on the original. Told as always so wonderfully!
"After Catalina has an accident, the doctor tells him that Catalina has TWO healthy eyes. From that point on, José Carlos is a new man. He makes sure Catalina knows that he has found out about her eye, plays mind games with her and actively works against her". My head is spinning.
I am puzzled as to why the fact the newer version did not carry over the fact Catalina was not blind. Actually, that would have added so much to the story, given Jose Carlos some badly needed ammunition and infinitely strengthened Leonora's character. That deceit would have made Catalina's cruel cunning even more sickening.
Having Catalina dead and Leonora and Jose Carlos together would have wrapped up things nicely.
Thank you for giving us insight into what might have been. Had some of the original plot be incorporated into this, it would have been better (IMHO). But like you, I did like the newer version, discounting all of this.
Thank you Jarifa! A very happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
Diana
"After Catalina has an accident, the doctor tells him that Catalina has TWO healthy eyes. From that point on, José Carlos is a new man. He makes sure Catalina knows that he has found out about her eye, plays mind games with her and actively works against her". My head is spinning.
I am puzzled as to why the fact the newer version did not carry over the fact Catalina was not blind. Actually, that would have added so much to the story, given Jose Carlos some badly needed ammunition and infinitely strengthened Leonora's character. That deceit would have made Catalina's cruel cunning even more sickening.
Having Catalina dead and Leonora and Jose Carlos together would have wrapped up things nicely.
Thank you for giving us insight into what might have been. Had some of the original plot be incorporated into this, it would have been better (IMHO). But like you, I did like the newer version, discounting all of this.
Thank you Jarifa! A very happy Thanksgiving to you and yours.
Diana
Permalink posted by 
: Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 2:37:00 PM EST
: Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 2:37:00 PM EST
As I've said previously you really can't shrink a story down that far. If they had reduced it to 50 episodes they could have maintained the element of this deception. They probably also thought this was too far-fetched. The idea might have been to replace it with more murders.
You know, if they had shown Catalina without her patch in the final scene that would have been okay. That is what I was expecting.
If anyone is interested in seeing the original, the 13 hr DVD edition published by Televisa is incredibly well edited. I watched it last week.
If anyone is interested in seeing the original, the 13 hr DVD edition published by Televisa is incredibly well edited. I watched it last week.
Wow, Urban and Jarifa, thank you two soooo much for all this information. I had long heard about Catalina being one of the worst villains of all time, but in the show we saw, she was just a cookie-cutter baddie, plotting to get an inheritance and ruthlessly murdering people to get it. That plot line has been done over and over again. Yeah, the eye patch is unique, but she had no back-story nor did we get any idea why she suddenly turned murderous in middle age. The single-expression interpretation of her character made her even less compelling. She sure wasn’t the scariest villain I’ve seen in telenovelas. What was the big deal?
Now I know! The original idea about her not really being blind in that eye and that she had used that for years to manipulate others – now, that’s truly unique and is a very cool story line. It’s very odd that they didn’t use it.
I stuck with this one because of some awesome performances. Otherwise, I thought it was pretty standard stuff. So thank you for letting us know what it originally was!
Now I know! The original idea about her not really being blind in that eye and that she had used that for years to manipulate others – now, that’s truly unique and is a very cool story line. It’s very odd that they didn’t use it.
I stuck with this one because of some awesome performances. Otherwise, I thought it was pretty standard stuff. So thank you for letting us know what it originally was!
Jarifa, "You know, if they had shown Catalina without her patch in the final scene that would have been okay. That is what I was expecting".
That would have been amazing! Yes, forget knowing earlier on - saving that until the last second would have been mind blowing! What a lost opportunity.
Diana
That would have been amazing! Yes, forget knowing earlier on - saving that until the last second would have been mind blowing! What a lost opportunity.
Diana
Permalink posted by : Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 7:29:00 PM EST
: Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 7:29:00 PM EST
Jarifa and UA, thank you for all the info on the original version. Wow, it does sound like an amazing story. I too wish they had carried over the fact that Catalina had two good eyes. I also would have enjoyed seeing Leonora as a much stronger woman.
Many, many thanks to both of you!
Many, many thanks to both of you!
Great collaboration, you two. I really enjoyed the comparisons and it didn't spoil anything for me because I'm still interested in seeing the original. This story was 25 hours. Urban, you say the DVD version is 13 hours--that's even less than what we got. I'm glad there wasn't as much wanton killing in the original, but still enough to make Catalina a real villain.
Comparing the two lead villains, could it be that Cat86 was deliberately not attractive, to make sure the audience had no sympathy towards her? I think Cat19 was supposed to be attractive, but started with Carlos' death, so we knew exactly where she was in the panoply of villains. I agree, they underused her attractiveness. She should have seduced a few men along the way. Instead she was saddled with Carlos' not very attractive brother. Her paramour should have been someone more attractive, I feel, to make it more interesting.
I'm glad, too, that Leo86 was a stronger personality, confronting a manipulative, powerful and rich woman. I think Leo19 was chosen for her ability to cry and show damaged emotions (as well as her uncombed hair style).
That was quite a revelation about Cat86 having two good eyes. I agree they should have kept that element--as a surprise for us. Also, the fact that in 2019, she would have been fitted with a glass eye. Peter Falk is a prime example and he had one all his life, starting in the 1930s. I always got a chuckle to see her sleeping or making love with the patch in place. I personally hate hats, bandanas, you name it around my head, so I wondered why she would wear it 24-hrs. a day.
All in all, great epilog. Thanks again.
Comparing the two lead villains, could it be that Cat86 was deliberately not attractive, to make sure the audience had no sympathy towards her? I think Cat19 was supposed to be attractive, but started with Carlos' death, so we knew exactly where she was in the panoply of villains. I agree, they underused her attractiveness. She should have seduced a few men along the way. Instead she was saddled with Carlos' not very attractive brother. Her paramour should have been someone more attractive, I feel, to make it more interesting.
I'm glad, too, that Leo86 was a stronger personality, confronting a manipulative, powerful and rich woman. I think Leo19 was chosen for her ability to cry and show damaged emotions (as well as her uncombed hair style).
That was quite a revelation about Cat86 having two good eyes. I agree they should have kept that element--as a surprise for us. Also, the fact that in 2019, she would have been fitted with a glass eye. Peter Falk is a prime example and he had one all his life, starting in the 1930s. I always got a chuckle to see her sleeping or making love with the patch in place. I personally hate hats, bandanas, you name it around my head, so I wondered why she would wear it 24-hrs. a day.
All in all, great epilog. Thanks again.
Also, I think that if a Catalina with vision in both eyes wore a patch most of the time it could give her a case of amblyopia, i.e. 2 eyes that don't work well together.
Didn't know about that SP. Maybe the writers didn't either.
They could have done something with that--like having her stumble, trip, not shoot straight when she wasn't wearing a patch. Or how about throwing off her patch and then steering her getaway yacht into a buoy.
They could have done something with that--like having her stumble, trip, not shoot straight when she wasn't wearing a patch. Or how about throwing off her patch and then steering her getaway yacht into a buoy.
Thanks UA and Jarifa for letting us about the earlier version. I am very interested in seeing that one. The character development sounds wonderful. I had missed on earlier episodes of this current version but in spite of the strong performances, the awful ending makes it so I won't be going back.
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