Caray, Caray!

Melinama - I think your "censorship" is great. I wish you could go one step further and make this a blog for people who enjoy the show (La Fea is the one I'm talking about). It's just a fun, silly soap about some nice people who are sometimes annoying, sometimes lovable, mostly improbable. How can it inspire so much hate from some of the commenters? And why, with so much entertainment to choose from, do people continue watching the show when they feel so negatively about it?
Reading the first few comments about Friday's recap I see that others do enjoy the mostly negative remarks. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I miss the "old days" of this (LFMB) blog when it seemed like we were all enjoying it.
Thanks again for all your work,
Ann
 

Ann, thanks, I definitely agree with you that it was more fun when people were light-hearted about La Fea rather than making such virulent comments about unloved cast members. It's interesting that people take this show so personally. The ugly tone is what made me decide to give away my blogging spot on La Fea ... (I have a GREAT replacement I hasten to add!)
 

Gotta love that last statement about the show not being shown on TV, it pretty much reveals the naked emperor hiding behind the anonymous nasty comment.

#1. I for one am completely on board with the non-spoiler policies. There are MANY other sites where people can read plot spoilers, read gossip about their favorite stars' personal lives, etc. We just don't do that here, it's not part of the blog's culture. Of course not everyone will agree with this because we cannot please everyone, but whether you agree or not, please respect the policy.

#2. If you find it impossible to respect the above policy, please stop whining about it; go away and bombast some other blog. Better yet start your own where you can have your own set of guidelines. It's easy, it just takes a brain and HOURS of work per week.

#3. Ann, thank you for commenting. I don't watch La Fea but I will use Duelo as a comparison. After several months of watching our beloved characters make the same old mistakes over and over we become weary and sometimes feel the need to vent about their stupidities. One of our commenters made a similar statement (it wasn't you was it?) and that's when Ferro coined our tagline phrase "We love to mock here, don't mistake it for real hate." Anyway, since the comment I have tried to be less negative, so I really appreciate it when commenters like you share your feelings because it helps me stay on track.

#4. Keep up the good work Melinama, and thank you for handling this issue!!
 

We have some wonderful,passionate,funny recappers and commentators here @ LFMB & Destilando Amor. I only object to one thing--the use of the word "hate", whether by recappers or those posting comments..It denotes negativity to the core. There are creative people here. Sometimes I feel that their passion and love for the show may be a little to the extreme,but I love to read all remarks agree or disagree.The uniqueness of each person posting or commenting is what makes all very "special"..
 

Melinama,

I agree with you absolutely.

Anonymous comments were out of line.
 

Melinama, I agree with what you said and your policies. As stated, there are many other places for people to visit if they don't care for the content here. That's using your freedom.
True, we may get carried away as we express our frustration. The long extension of LFMB may have clogged our brains and feelings. Just know that your dedication in maintaining this blog is greatly appreciated, as is the work of the wonderful recappers. The mix of minds that visit and comment makes this a fun place to be.
 

I think some people just don't get the idea of what a blog is. It's not USENET. It's not a public space, although it may seem that way. If you want an unmoderated public space, try a newsgroup or setup your own blog. There, you can enjoy all the unfiltered comments you want.
 

Sylvia - No, 'twasn't me. La Fea is my only novela indulgence.
Ann
 

PS - I do understand and sympathize with some of the negative feelings and angst over LFMB. What I don't understand is when the things that happen on the show upset people personally to the point where they can't stop thinking about it.

I do remember one episode that upset me a lot, but it was because there was a kid playing Lety as a little girl and it looked like she thought she was being teased for real. I don't think that's quite the same as getting upset over fictional events, but I was worried about that. But after re-watching, I could tell that the girl was older than she looked, and I felt better. :)
 

Thanks Melinama, I completely agree. I'm one of those who hate spoilers, it defeats the whole purpose of watching for me, so I'm glad there are none here. I also don't care for political arguments, I have to deal with those all day in real life (I work for a state agency). I also like not seeing the f-bomb dropped all the time. I cuss myself quite frequently, but I just feel like it defeats the whole tone of this blog. In fact I like the tone the way you have it set up, and I appreciate the work you do to keep it fun. As a fan of Aldo's, I have to say that I've been saddened to read the constant put downs his character, and the actor, has received lately, but except for defending him on occasion, I haven't said anything, figuring everyone feels how they feel. But really people, so what if Juan Soler endorses feminine products? Not everyone in the world has the uptight, prudish, puritan viewpoints on women's issues that American's have. Cut the guy some slack. As always, I appreciate this blog more than I can express, since without you I would have no clue as to what's going on. Keep up the great work!!!
Kim P.
 

Thank you, Melinama, for setting the ground rules. I consider this blog a club of people united for a common purpose; to stay caught up on telenovelas, possibly to test our understanding of Spanish, and in general, to have fun. It is not a place to be hijacked by someone trying to to pit our presumably happy group against one another.

As I've stated before, I'm sure many of our fans have lives that rival the Sturm und Drang of the characters on the telenovelas. This should be a safe place to retreat, have some fun, and perhaps even a laugh. Negativity about some of the actions of the characters is one thing. True nastiness is another.

I don't want to read spoilers or personal political agendas/attacks. Feel free to edit away. You created this blog and I've never lost sight of that. You're our "Blog Mom" and you can delete if you want to!

If we don't like the show, we can turn off the TV and read a book. If we don't like the politics, we'll start our own blog or join another chatroom.

Enough said.
 

Melinama, I agree with what you are doing. I stopped watching La Fea because I had too many novelas to keep up with! I am very thankful for this site because not only is it fun to read the recaps, but I love the humor added to certain novelas(Duelo). I agree with Sylvia's #2 comment. Keep up the good work, Melinama! -Becky T.
 

Melinama: I just want to say that I appreciate the time that you take in maintaining this blogg, it shows that you are a responsible and caring person, and since it is yours, you have the right to edit and delete as you wish, that said, I agree with Ferro when he said that we love to mock here and it wasn't real hate. I think that the fact that this are fictional characters and that we understand this, makes us feel that we can judge their life and reactions (after all we can see most of the motivations for their actions). We feel free to criticize and bad mouth them because we know THEY ARE NOT REAL, their feelings are not hurt, and their reputation don’t get damage (I'm talking about the characters) I don't think that the regulars here are a bunch of hateful people on the contraire I think that we all are caring people that share the love for the Spanish speaking soaps. However a few days ago I wanted to make a comment about a new character that was introduced in destilando amor, the context was that this black guy (don't remember his name) was impressed with Daniela (Rod's sister)I wanted to comment that If Daniela and this guy ended up together her grandma was going to have a fit (because grandma is that kind of character, racist) However I did not post this because I remember what happened with Ferro and did not wanted people to think I was the racist. See??? This is not good; I censured myself because I was afraid to be misunderstood. I think we should keep a balance. Like my grandmother used to say “ni tanto que queme al santo, ni tanto que no lo alumbre” (Do not place the candle so close to the Icon so it burns it, but neither place it so far that it can’t even illuminate it….mmmm…..It sounds better in Spanish)
Thank you for letting me state my feelings
Maricruz
 

Hi Maricruz, it was one of our visitors who criticized Ferro's remark. I admit it's hard to know what's going to pass and what's going to get jumped on! I don't want to be too heavy-handed with the "delete" key but I also don't want you to have to worry about censoring yourself. What do you suggest?
 

This website is precious to those who are here regularly. Anonymous posters can go elsewhere to critique how the website is handled by the one who spends so much time tenderly caring for it. We who love this place deeply appreciate Melinama's efforts and applaud the rules.

Jeanne (in Atlanta, on the way back from the megatrip)
 

Melinama, you go girl. I love the way you handled the situation of the disgruntled Anon with the freedom of speech issue. I really love this blog and what it stands for. I would hate to think that the negative comments of some Anon could change that in any way. If a person doesn't like a particular show, that's what remote controls are for. This blog is for an audience who love the novelas that are recapped here.
 

Can't find fault with the policy you set up for the blog. I always look at it as if I was talking to a friend who was watching the same show and laughing about the stupidity of some of the characters actions or enjoying the fun of others. I'll admit that I've said I detest a character usually based on some continued behavior but I always know they are fictional people. I do the same thing with GH but left those blogs because real hate often came across and the fun of talking about the show was lost. At this point since LFMB went off the rails with the extension it is harder, but not impossible, to enjoy it as much as in the beginning. In any event the end is near and many of us will miss our nightly get togethers with these characters and our daily rehash, complete with sarcastic comments on the blog. I don't mind an occasional political comment when it applies to a show, like the horrific and unnecessary violence against women on Duelo but comments thaqt these shows don't belong on our TV goes beyond the pale. Keep up the good work.
 

I agree with the comments that lend support to our blog mom. Thanks Melinama. Freedom of speech does not give us the right to make negative or offensive remarks about anything or anyone we choose. The results of one's speech has consequenses which are not always pleasant. Race, religion and politics are examples of comments known to set the stage for controversy. So, along those lines, let me say thanks to Anon 02:48 for not elaborating on the perceived attraction of a Black man to Daniela. Although you attributed it to abuela's way of thinking, I haven't seen a racist side of her. Her views seem to be more about class than race. So thanks again for not making a racist issue out of that innocent scene.
 

Gosh Melinama, you're nice. I would've just continued to delete the comments, no explanation or apology necessary. After all, it is your blog. The fact the you spend your free time organizing this blog and bloggers is greatly appreciated by me and judging from the hit count many others. Thanks for all your efforts.

I want to share this unsolicited advice I learned from a boss when I was just entering the workforce. We had some controversy inwhich we were in the papers every day - I don't remember the details - but my boss told me if you want something to go away, quit talking about it. Meaning don't respond, resist the urge to defend yourself and your company. Many times people that perpetuate these scandals do it for attention. Don't give it to them and they go away. I've always remembered that little piece of advice and never reqretted practicing it.

Thanks again for this wonderful blog.

Rhonda in TX
 

Wow, controversy…interesting. : )

I’d like to offer an impartial perspective about this member’s “negative” comments, given that you’ve offered us the opportunity to do so by stating: -- “Comments on my comment policy are welcome.”

I don’t want to get into the middle of a squabble, but as a member/reader, I believe (maybe I’m wrong) that I should be able to do so. Given your position about this member’s comments, I don’t think my comments will ever see the light of day, but at least I can share them with you.

I enjoy your site and visit it when I’ve missed episodes in order to catch up on things. It’s a good site and kudos to all of you for all the work you do. However, regardless of what you might believe, your site IS a public site for two reasons.

1). The site does not force members to log in to read or post comments, but rather it’s available to anyone and everyone that stumbles upon the site, hence “public”.

2). The site allows for “anonymous” comments, which all of in itself, makes it public as well.

As for who owns the site, that’s a gray area. If your position, form what I gather, is that those who contribute positive comments to the site are its owners, then what constitutes a positive comment? In the past, I’ve read where member articulate negativity about one thing or another, so what makes this different?

Personally, I had read this member’s posting and quite frankly, not all that she articulated was negative – or untrue for that matter. She simply has an opinion about what she’s been viewing, much like other members have opinion about storylines, wardrobe, and how cute an actor might or might not be. Where do you draw the line as to what is negative and what is argumentative?

I agree that you, as the moderator, have the absolute right to delete comments that are vulgar or offensive to other reader, such as material with sexually charged language or profanity, etc. However, what you’ve done by deleting this member’s comment is to deprive her right to express her opinions – the same right you - allow - others that agree with you. In essence, you’ve become the “though police” and are in essence censoring her for her comments. – You can’t have it both ways and say you’re being fair!

You mention policy in your headline post. Where are these policies posted? In all fairness to the “negative commenter”, as you’ve coined her, does your site advise a member of these polices before they post a comment or at anytime while they’re on your site?

I know you may not like my position, and I’m sure you’ll delete this post as well, before other have a chance read it, but in a true open forum, which is what I think this member may have thought this was (quite frankly, I so did I), everyone’s comments are allowed to remain in their entirety. You and other member can and should disagree, and should engage her in dialogue to voice your opinions openly, but as soon as you begin to delete comments, you enter into the realm of censorship. If you think this is a private site you need to post that up front and advise those that visit or wish to participate, of your policies – before – they post a comment.

Also, in regard to “not” posting comments under the “anonymous” signature, that’s not her fault it’s yours. If you don’t want members to post anonymously, then don’t make it an option – period you can’t have it both ways. Otherwise, advise them that only comments that agree with your viewpoint and pass your “thought policing” policies will be allowed to post anonymously.

As for me, I’m out of this. After witnessing the positions herein, I think I’ll just “live without”, when I miss an episode.
 

Melinama, I think you are already doing a wonderful job, that’s why I said you have the right to delete wherever doesn't go with your policy. And you see I was right there is people that doesn't give you the benefit of the doubt. It is MY opinion grandma is racist. The whole class thing in Mexico has to do with the fact that the lower class is usually of what is called "indian" origen. If you are white and w/blue eyes most people (Of the high society of Mexico) won't care if you are poor, however if you are brown (like me) you have to proof your worth. So bi-racial, no, I was not starting a race controversy, I was innocently stating what I thought was going to happen en "La Novela", and I’m not anonymous I’m Maricruz, I always sign my comments (I just haven’t gotten the hold of having my own name thingy... called lazyness if you must :)). Once again thank you for everything you do Melinama

Maricruz
 

Melinama, I love this blog and I feel comfortable with where you've drawn the line of civility. I've learned an incredible amount of spanish and feel a real spirit of friendship and fun. We love to mock...characters...
jb
 

Melinama, as I see it the blog is yours, you started it and you run it. Therefore you have the right to set the standards and to delete what you think is inappropriate.
I for one am glad there is a standard and you sometimes use the delete button.
I don't want to visit a site where everything is allowed and the violent, obscene or political is a constant message.
If your site allowed all of that I wouldn't be here.
Thank you for all you and the others do, and keep up the good work!

Carrie L.
 

Melinama - thank you for your efforts to make your blog a safe space. I am sorry you have to deal with people who appear to want to cause dissention but know that many of those who read this blog (and remain anon b/c I don't want a have set up another account) like it here as your have planned it.

Maricruz, I understand your apprehension about commenting about race especially in a Latin American context. I'm glad you mentioned it here though as its usually a good place for us to post our opinions. I've been watching novelas for a few years and long for the day when casting will be more reflective of Latin American (as Melinama mentioned during the beauty contest during La Fea).

Karen
 

I'm so pleased that many people are weighing in, thanks to all of you for your opinions!
 

I think that Anon 04:10 PM just might be the the negative poster in disguise. Just as the person who commits a crime always returns to the scene of the crime, it's funny that this the first post that sounds really defensive in favor of the negative poster. My apologies if you are not the original poster of the negative comments. In any case you made a comment that everyone’s comments should be allowed to remain in their entirety and that other member can and should disagree, and should engage her in dialogue. I disagree. That's not what this blog is for. By the way, how did you know the person was a "she"?
 

I applaud amd agree with melinama's "censorship". She deserves the right to delete whatever she sees fit. She created the blog so it's her baby.

Anybody who gets angry for whatever they feel is censorship are free to create their own blog and monitor it whatever way they want.

Muchos kudos to this blog and am very glad I found it.
 

When I was growing up, long before P.C. jumped from the former Soviet Union to the States in its current form, the key word was "TACT". That word comes without strings and when used to express an unpopular opinion, avoids the need for being deleted outright. If you can back up your objections to any stated opinion in a reasoned and "polite" (as opposed to "political") manner, then disagree with me all day long. That is legitimate debate. However, I say just use a little common sense. I am big enough to appreciate that there are numerous shades of gray.

There is, however, no need for an anonymous interloper to harangue us simply because we tactfully state a view somebody else is uncomfortable with. To paraphrase what a judge once said, you have the right to free speech, but you don't have the right to yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater and thus incite to riot.

I want to hear bi-racial's and Maricruz's input as well as Kim P's and the prudish puritans out there. Everybody brings something of value to the discussion and expands the available spectrum and gives us something to consider. How dull the world would be otherwise.

On the other hand, every website has a moderator with the ultimate power of censoring what they consider to be "inappropriate" posts. Since Melinama pays for the site and maintains it, the ultimate decision must be hers. She has offered to allow us as much leeway as possible and we have to trust that she will. If we cannot live with her decisions and cannot persuade her privately of our need for something to be better tolerated, then the only choice is to have a little self-respect, pick up your toys and go home. Start your own blog and make your own rules and develop your own membership. This is called "freedom of association". Live it. Love it. Learn it.
 

Ok, having tuned out for a while and calling up the site today to find this, wow. What happened?

Look, off the bat, I assure you, I am not the phantom anonymous "negative" poster, but I have to agree with anon 4:10 in this way.

I don't ever believe in people not being allowed to say what they are thinking, good or bad. I may disagree with how it is communicated, but not what it is and that it is said.

Hell, if you are a racist and going to say a racist comment then go for it. Otherwise, how do I know you are a racist and someone I want to keep my distance from?

If you are silent, or only patronizing, I don't learn that side of you, and I go on thinking you agree and ally with me. I am deceived, which is worse to me than being offended. What's more, I might be endangered. Many Jews were lead to the gas chambers by people they trusted because these people never mentioned their opinions.

Besides this, if you don't say something disagreeable or dislikable to me, when do I have the opportunity to teach you why I believe in my position and think you ought to as well? Maybe you don't fully realize you are racist or how hurtful something said is to another until you are critiqued. Maybe you will never understand the complexity of an issue if you don't feel free to say things and have someone challenging your thought.

Flip that over, and maybe I'm the one to learn a new perspective. I understand there are pretty popularly accepted social ways that people be treated, etc., but maybe on other points there is something I can learn from someone's "negativity."


I don't know I don't get it. It seems to me that people who are afraid of hearing what other people have to say against them, are in actuality afraid of themselves and how they themselves will deal with not liking the situation when it comes up.

Honestly, as a reader, when this stuff happens and I can't refer back to the source of the apparent strife, I must admit I am a bit bothered that I'm not allowed to judge for myself.

But, all that being said, I understand and respect the blog owner's right to do with her site as she wishes. If she's not in the mood to deal with this commenter and just wants to erase him or her, that's fine too. I gather that she wants this to be a "happy" place, and really doesn't care to have to deal with things she perceives as unpleasant. Frankly, nor should she.

If she didn't want to deal with this stuff anymore she could easily shut it down, and where would we all be? Without our beloved forum, so we should be grateful that she deals with even the little that is already here.

I think it is important to recognize though, that that is really it. It's not the commenter so much as it is not feeling like reading that viewpoint over and over again.

And really all this having been said, I agree with Maricruz. THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT REAL!!! THIS SHOW IS NOT REAL!!!! Hence I agree it is sort of safe to say anything about these characters, and that we should keep our open minds to all opinions.

Hell, I want to know if someone doesn't like them as much as I want to know that someone loves them to death!!! And gawd, just because people say things here doesn't mean they would say the same about real people or even think so!

The magic of the internet is the detachment and allowing anonymous comments really gives people an opportunity to fully express ideas without fear of personal retribution. You know that same incredibly powerful concept behind our entire voting system? It's not BS.

So on that note, I will proudly leave this post anonymous, not out of cowardice, but so that you focus on the sentiment and the words and not on who said them.

Thank you for reading!
 

OOOoooo, that ended up being really long, sorry, but wanted to make sure I said all I wanted to and worded it coherently.
 

Wow I just read the comments...Sorry if my recap offended..I do try to spread the comments evenly..I do not consider mocking...hate. Cause I can do hate and no I don't consider this hate...(I checked and I didn't use hate)..it mostly comes from the absurdity of it all. Seriously maybe living in Oklahoma I am sheltered..is stalking a commonly accepted practice in the rest of the country? Do people have complete alter-egos, where they are a complete 180 from their normal personality (well I have seen that on Dr. Phil, but it wasn't good)..I am a grade A slacker at my job, but in comparison to LFMB..I work myself to death. I've worked with people who were dating & I have never seen people making out at work...well not since that first job at Wendy's and the making out in the freezer...crap that was me..I have never worked with a company president that discussed their personal life with me or anyone else in the bathrooms..but hey maybe I just don't get out enough...
 

Ok, this is my last comment for the night. First let me apologize to Maricruz for elaborating on her comment. I admit that I'm sensitive about the subject of rascism because of the negative impact it has had on my life. I believe your comment was sincere so I apologize for singling out that phrase for comment. Unlike some people I'm not going to infer that I have a right to say whatever I want to say and you in turn must like it. I'm really not that type of person.
Now, one last comment to those who think that freedom of speech means that you have the right to say whatever you want about any subject or anyone that you want in any settig that you choose. Sometimes you'll get away with it but many times there will be repercussions. So, whenever you exercise your right to free speech, just remember that all of the responses that you get in return are the other persons right to free speech. In other words, it's a two way street. Good night and God Bless. I hope we can we put this subject behind us and move on.
 

bi-racial, I appreciate your sensitivity because my grandchildren are also bi-racial, and their father is from a Muslim background, a native of Western Africa. This has broadened our horizons considerably as my husband grew up in Alabama during the Great Depression and lived through the segregation and Civil Rights times. It creates some fascinating discussions between us from time to time. Where my grandchildren live in Maryland, there is such a mixed community that no one bats an eye at the diversity. Now, in the vast Midwest, I miss that because the attitudes are still very discriminatory, but subtly so and it's hard to nail down.

You are the future. Diversity is a wonderful thing and I miss the diversity we experienced in Hawaii and with our family (who live over 1K miles away). Sensitivity is human. Still, we need to have the conversations on all levels. I recommend the book "Courageous Conversations," by Glenn Singleton. Someone recommended it to me and I read it as one of my "choice" books for a course (two required, two our choice) this spring. I met the man last week and heard him speak. He grew up in Baltimore and his work is fascinating. He wants us as a society to have Courageous Conversations about race with sincerity and a hope to transform the sociological future one person at a time. This is what it will take for us all. (I got an A in the course and told him that; he just grinned ear to ear. What a humble, confident, and extraordinary person he is!)

As for censorship, etc., all the comments in favor of moderating a discussion to ensure it stays civil. Melinama has every right to set the tone and rules for her own blog. No individual's blog is public property unless he/she say so, and civility is to be embraced rather than criticized in the name of free speech.

For those of you who endorse "Free Speech" as in what our forefathers in America endorsed, go back and read a bit. The era dictated who could talk to whom, who could say what to whom, and whether they could make eye contact based on social class when they said it. women were property and so were black people (and some white people if they were indentured, but they had a way of buying out of it if they worked long and hard enough and survived). "Free Speech" meant you could say what you wanted as long as you observed the very precise elements of propriety dictated by society of the day when that was written. We have lost so many of those elements of propriety. Some were just nonsense in our modern way of thinking, and some were for very good reasons.

Look at history. The US Constitution is a wonderful document, one of a kind. It sets the stage to allow us to say so much in public that a relatively small number of people on the earth have the privilege of saying in public. But, in my opinion, it also imposes on us a responsibility to use that freedom maturely, and wisely, or else we are a bunch of caterwauling, immature little kids from the playground, flaming each other in the name of saying what we have a right to say. Freedom imposes responsibility to use it correctly and influence our fellow man by reasonable and gentle persuasion, not by hammering them.

Jeanne
 

bi-racial, one more thing: my grandchildren are the most beautiful kids on earth and the smartest. The older girl, not yet 7, has been given a placement in the gifted and talented class in her school for fall.

Jeanne (proud Grandma)
 

To 9:52 who compared Melinama's occasional moderating of comments to Nazi Germany: You are not entitled to know all that is in someone's heart, including whatever sexist or racist or other disagreeable material might be in there. Especially if you refuse to sign your own name. It's not that I care who you are. It's the irony of you demanding your right to know every person's thought, without revealing who you are yourself.

BTW, you remind me a lot of the person some time ago who started a protracted debate about the alleged lack of a backseat in a Mercedes, then tried to defend it by raising the spectre of Jews getting led into gas chambers..

If you ever do need to say something important to prevent another genocide, then you might want to consider whether someone else's telenovela blog is the place to do it. And if you want to find a place that's completely unmoderated, where it's a free-for-all for everyone at all times, then again I urge you to explore USENET or start a newsgroup/blog/group of your own. That's what it's for.
 

Wow Melinama, you set off a fascinating discussion of free speech which I think is great. As a writer I am sensitive to censorship in any form but agree that a negative opinion can be expressed thoughtfully and with, as someone pointed out, tact. Endless ranting and constant repetition of the same theme over and over has no place on a blog set up for entertainment purposes. Nor does the F bomb and a few 13 letter words.

I belong to writer's organization that has several members only lists and they are moderated and when a subject gets too heated or off course the post is removed and the postee warned that they can be expelled if they continue breaking the rules. So you are well within your rights to keep the group civil if not bland.

I was born and raised in San Francisco and there is surely no place on earth where free speech is more practiced and valued but as has been pointed out with free speech comes responsibility. I usually reread everything I post both here and on my other lists and blogs to try and avoid making flip off the cuff remarks that can be misunderstood or attacking of another person's opinions. They have a right to theirs as I do mine. If I find a post insulting or offensive i can just scroll on by and ignore that person's posts in the future.

Now back to LFMB
 

I first want to say, I love this site. I also know I am respectable of others views.
If you do not want to sign up you can click on other and put your name there. I have signed up but it will not let me use the name I post with because someone has already posted with that name so I just use other and put my name. That is because I posted with that name and do not ant to change it so people will know who I am. My Grandfather once told me that if you want to be heard they must know you. If you are posting anon than noone will kno who you are and you are not heard anyway in a sense. I believe you must take credit for what you say and do. I know alot of people psost anon but sign their name that is a good idea, and that is why I posted on how to use a name and not sign up. I hope that helps everyone.
I agree that this is her site and she has the right to say what is allowed and not allowed. It is not public she pays for it. She build it and put it here for people that loves the novellas just like her. Thank you I love your site.
I do not like to come to this site and see people getting mad because a recap is not up yet or saying negative things about other commenters, the actors and the recappers. I do agree that some people vent their frustration about the characters and I am fine with that. As long as it is not about the people that play them and in a very bad way.
As for Freedom of Speech, that is true but people should kn ow what is right to say and rong. Learn to respect that is all. You may have your opinion and may not agree with someone else, there is a right way to go about it and a wrong.
I wwanted to say to who was unsure aout commenting about Dani and the blacjk guy on Destilando. I commend you for thinking of others feelings and do not belive you were being racist at all, only commenting on what the situation might be with Granny Pilar. There is a big fine line when it comes to that stuff and understand why you did not post it. I am so far from being racist and love people of all color and want to say something to people that do post offensive racist comments on here or any site....
The first is this may be a mexican soap opera, and some people may assume that other races do not watch it. There are alot of people that watch the novella and do not understand much spanish at all, there are people of diffrent races that watch this novella also. So when you are posting comments keep that in mind. If you are racist keep it ti your self. I do commend those who have wanted to post things about people on the novellas who are not of Hispanic origin like say James on Desti or the black guy on there who looks at Daniela all the time. I do not take those as racist comments and it is sad that people are scared to say certain things because people might be upset. Do not be afraid to say something about them if it is not a comment that is racist commenting on a characters feelings of other races and such do not seem racist to me. I hope other people would not be offended on that either.
I am an American woman. I am half Native American-Shawnee Indian and half Irish. So when someone make scomments saying that Americans are a certain way and made the comment about Not everyone in the world has the uptight, prudish, puritan viewpoints on women's issues that American's have, well that was wrong to say, again in my opinion something that should have been kept to theirself. Maybe this poster did not intend to upset anyone but I am sure she has. I believe that people are diffrent and not all Americans or any race has the views of someone else. You cannot say all americans feel a certain way because the do not. We are all diffrent. I am not uptight or prudish but I bet there are people from all races that could be like that.
I really hope people will stop tring to seperate people into races and just get over it. That is the beauty of this world. America is a land of many races and cultures and I think it is beautiful. I just wish more people did. I guess alll I am saying is classing people by race is wrong and I hope I did not offend anyone with this. I am trying to help people understand the diffrence of a bad and good racial comment. To Kim P whom I used her comments about americans- I am not ttrying to offend you and maybe uyou did not realize that comment could offens someone but it could.
I love this site and love the coments and diffrent views on here as long as they are not in context of things that are condsidered rude or disrespectable. Race and politics are to things that seem to get people going and the topics must be stepped on carefully. There are ways to talk about both sujects that will not be offensive though just be careful thats all. As my Grandpa always told me treat others how you would want to be treated. Noone would like to here bad comments or clasifications aout their race. Thank you all for reading this
Happy posting to all and to all my Duelo friends see you over at Duelo. Also please all be respectable of Melinama this site is here because of her and all the recappers who give is such funny and onderful recaps, and also tthe commenters who also make it great with such great and diffrent comments.
 

OK, this discussion is getting a bit intense, which is good I suppose, but not really why I come to this blog either, so I completely understand Melinama's approach, but, I feel like I just need to clear up one thing for Julie.

I haven't read the comments about the mercedes so I'm not sure exactly what the reference is there, nor if I understand completely your point, but I'm feeling like I was misunderstood, so I want to offer additional info because I feel like I've been attacked and singled out by you differently than other commenters who have pretty much expressed the same sentiment I did. I find that a bit peculiar and can't quite understand why. Maybe it has more to do with whatever the Mercedes thing was? I guess I'll see if I can find it.

I wasn't intending to compare blog comment moderating to Nazi Germany. Holy moly. Not really even close I don't think. Just an example I picked to sort of illustrate a false sense of comfort because I'm reading some material and recalling family stories about how often times people's neighbor's whom they thought they could trust and they thought were "Jew friendly" ratted them out to the SS so they got rounded up and sent off.

Maybe it was a bad example, I mean it's obviously a much more complex situation, and one historically charged with a lot of emotion behind it, but if my neighbor called me a "dirty Jew", (I get goose bumps even typing that, blegh) I'd pretty much know he didn't like me and I should watch out not to trust him. But if he thought he was being socially polite or acceptable by not saying anything, even though he still thought I was that, well, I'd rather he say it so I know. That's all.

I definitely agree with you that I am not entitled to know everything what is in people's hearts and I don't think I said that I did exactly, but, in any case that's not what I meant. I have been subject to plenty of racism from people who have held their tongue
during conversations because they fear getting in trouble for not being “PC” but I later find out or figure out what is really up, what they really think, that they don’t like me because of my race. I just think it’s hypocritical and would rather you tell me than feel like you should have to hide it so as not to get in trouble with the “social police.”

My real point is that shutting people up doesn’t change them, it only changes what you hear or perceive from them. I think real change is occurs by people sharing their real views, getting it out in the open and available for discussion. Otherwise, to me, those unshared perceptions loom in the dark corners of people’s souls never to get examined. If you don’t examine something, you can never understand it, and never learn from it. That’s basically where I was coming from.
 

In a perfect world hatred and violence would not go hand in hand. People would sit down and talk out their prejudices face to face. Once aired, healing and love would begin. You'd know who you could trust and who you couldn't. Organizations like the klu klux klan and the white supremacy advocates would sit at the head of the table to kick things off. 911 would have never happened. Sadly, in the real world that's not exactly true. Hatred runs deep when one group of people feels superior to another because of the other group's racial features or ethnic background. True racists would just as soon not share the planet with inferior people. Therefore, it's not to their advantage to sit down and work things out. After all they are not the underdogs so why should they relinguish any of their perceived power? I respect the opinion of folks who feel otherwise but personally, if someone hates me because of my race or my ethnic background, I don't have the professional expertise (or desire) to sit down with them. I'd just as soon avoid them as try to convert them. I'll let people who are professionally trained in diplomacy handle that. I can't help but feel that it's the person who has the nerve to admit that he's a racist that I'm distrustful of. I'd prefer he keep his racist opinions to himself and not use me for a sounding board to vent hatred and intolerance. I'm not likely to respond with "hey, good point.. glad you told me, let's talk about that".
 

I love the blog and have no problem with Melinama deleting comments as she sees fit. I don’t see this as censorship. In fact, I would say that, given the fact that Melinama has stated she does not like the tone of a lot of the LFMB comments, but leaves our snarky comments in tact, proves she is not into censorship.
Lots of interesting, impassioned and looonngg comments here.
I just read parts of some of the longer ones.
Sat. 4:10 Anon, I am thinking you are a lawyer or someone who likes reading up on law. : ) Tammie, I did happen to read what you said about Kim P’s comment that ended with “puritan viewpoints on women's issues that American's have”. I would not say I was offended by the comment. But I certainly don’t think anyone who thinks it is in bad taste for Juan S. or any man to endorse feminine products is puritanical. I feel if a man is going to choose to endorse pads, he is opening himself up to be made fun of. If there should ever come a day when a man knows what it is like to have a period, then I would cut that guy slack for endorsing feminine products.

Teresa
 

Teresa I am laughing about the feminine pad comment. That is true. I hope people feel better after venting on here and all can go back to what we are really here for.. to read and comment on the great recaps on our fav novellas.
 

The best thing about this extended debate is the depth and thoughtfulness of the resulting discussion...the increased sharing about various blogger's personal situations and viewpoints and a real sense of the wide range of perspectives blending into this site, sometimes harmoniously...sometimes not. But ALWAYS interesting. When I set out to learn Spanish and depend mostly on telenovelas to do so, I had no idea what an interesting world I was stepping into...Thanks Melinama and all you wonderful recappers, watchers, readers and bloggers...Judy B.
 

Anon 8:53, You said you'd just as soon avoid them as convert them among other things. I agree I don't think real racists can ever be converted (that's kind of what makes them racist.) But, how can you even avoid them if you don't have an inkling that they are racist because they haven't said anything in your presence or they pretend? Just curious...because that is kind of my point.
 

Wow. I just encountered this huge controversy and I guess I missed whatever sparked it. I think most of the people who recap and comment here are insanely clever and bring a lot of interesting life experiences and education to their writing. The only thing odd about that is that we are writing about TV shows that are about as sophisticated as a paperback romance novel. The only real challenge is that for most of us, they are in a language that is not our mother tounge.

That being said, We are all adults here. I would say the violence and implied sex scenes (even with hats on) make these shows pretty much adult fare. The comment about "Jim Jones with a grill" definitely could come across as a either wickedly funny or dreadful, depending on whether one is of a delicate disposition. I'm not and I get the sense that most of the regulars here aren't either.

I would feel sorry if we couldn't discuss a little of the sociological aspects--we've hashed out how utterly misogynistic the plot of Duelo is. Nearly every woman on the show has been physically abused in some way. To not point that out would be hard for most of us.

I think like Chris said elsewhere that there is a line between mocking and hating. Those of us watching Duelo know that in the last few weeks the show has come perilously close to crossing that line for a lot of us. The show has been by turns, frustrating (more so than most shows) and full of unrelenting ugliness. We feel like we are being tortured along with the main characters. It's hard to to mock when you feel like the writers and deliberately messing with the audience, with no real payoff. In the last few weeks I feel like I belong to a Duelo support group rather than a recapping group. I enjoy the show,not for the story but for the challenge of translating and because I know my frustrations will be shared by the other people who read the blog.

I didn't recap Heridas but I watched and read this blog. I'd have to say that it was a fundamentally different experience and overall a more positive one. I am hoping that after Duelo ends I can watch a show that is centered on a more engaging theme.
 

There seems to have been lots of controversy since I've been away for a few days. I guess I might as well add my 2 cents. First, this is Melinama's house, so she gets to make the rules. She has graciously opened the door and invited us all in to chat and laugh together for awhile. I discovered the site when I discovered Alborada last summer. I felt like I had wandered into a really great place . I loved Melinama's wonderful recaps full of humor and knowledge. When she created Caray!Caray! to recap other telenovelas as a group project, all these creative, clever people began giving their own unique spins on the shows. Discussions became livlier and funnier. I visit everyday because I love the humor, insight, and hyperbole. Real life is really real for me ,soit was nice to find a place where I could relax and just escape into a world of fantasy and good humor. Thanks, Melinama and all you recappers and commentors. I look forward to spending time with all of you each day. I'm going to take my shoes off and grab a cuppa tea...and I call dibs on the comfy sofa with the big, soft pillows by the sunny window. I like your place, Melinama...I feel at home here.
 

Well, after reading EVERY WORD down through Margaret and Susanlynn's comments, one good old-fashioned phrase comes to mind:
"a sense of humor"

The more complaints about things on this site that I hear being expressed the less I believe those complaining have of a good old-fashioned sense of humor or the ability to laugh at oneself and the overall human condition. Laughter is the best and healthiest release and cure for what ails. We are not here to correct. We are here to enjoy learning another language and about another culture. Certain universal truths of the human condition abound (positive and negative) and we are here to note these, but within the framework of "humor" be it wry and witty or sarcastic, dry, dark, or whatever form it takes. We discuss and we commiserate; we do not condemn. I think that is why those who do continue to flock to this site do so.
 

Jardinera, you are so right about the sense of humor! That is one of the reasons I love this site so much.

Some of the novelas can get a little ridiculous at times, but the recappers make them funny and enjoyable. And our Spanish is improving thanks to the phrases and vocabulary translations!

What I enjoy most about novelas is that they always END!!! Not so the English ones that have gone on and on ............And the great thing is that we can always look forward to a new novela starting and hopefully seeing our favorite actors (Fernando C.,included) again!

Thank you, Melinama and all the recappers and regular commentators for making this a fun site!
 

Margaret, Susanlynn, Jardinera and Becky T., your words were insightful and echoed what I have thought about this controversy and the reasons I am a dedicated Caray! Caray! reader. We have a home here, a sense of community, and apparently a mutual understanding of each other's senses of humor. Taking any of this television world too seriously puts us at risk of losing sight of what is really important in life on a daily basis.

Thank you for punctuating this discussion with your wisdom. Thanks also for all the recapping and commenting you four do.

Jeanne
 

I love all the light and sarcastic/witty comments and recaps on this blog. We are all different and bring different life experiences to the table. Let's just live and let live. If we don't share someone's opinion, that's ok, too. They probably won't share some of our opinions. Please recappers and bloggers, keep throwing your witty and sarcastic comments our way and don't be afraid of offending. They are too funny and I love reading all of them.
 

BRAVA Melinama! Thank you for caring enough to monitor this site (& of course, creating it)and telling us what and why you delete.

I appreciate the comments about tact, being polite, having a sense of humor. I aspire to all of those traits, am master (mistress?) of none.

We hit rough spots, but overall, this is a great place to talk about novelas, without the gossip about the actors' private lives, attacks on each other, and nasty negativity that some other foros have.

Melinama, you have created a jewel. Muchas gracias.
 

Thank you for this web site. I have never written a response but wanted to tell you how much I appreciate Spanish speakers recapping this in English. I would hate for one anonymous person to ruin this for the rest of us! Your site is great for me b/c I am still learning Spanish and if I do not catch something I can run to your site and find out what happened. It must be a lot of hard work to do all the recaps but I for one wanted to tell this group thanks.

Also be very careful with this web site b/c it can contain plenty of spoilers (esp. the you-tube parts of it)!! htttp://todaslasfeas.com/forum/index.php

Thanks again!
 

Wow what an interesting discussion. I feel the need to point out something as I understand it, Melinama just deleted someone's second comment which was a repeat of an earlier comment, so where is the censorship in that? The original is still hanging out there to be read. Again, she is the blog mother and it is her right to do as she sees fit.

I have to admit, I now want to go back and look for said original comment because I'm also a person who slows down to look at an accident (is that human nature or am I just weird?) and want to see what kicked off this whole controversy. I think there are enough clues in the comments for me to figure it out ;-)

As for my weighing in on censorship as a whole: I'm a teacher and I really try not to dictate what my students chose to write about, I'm just happy to get them writing. However, there are times when I feel like putting the cabosh on some of the more graphically violent writings a few of them produce. I don't however, because I view them as being evidence to show their parents during conferences.

Our words, as well as our actions, reveal our real character. So we should choose our words wisely....and if someone says something that you believe is out of line, call them on it. Perhaps they are just uneducated and need enlightenment, or they could just be closed-minded and unwilling to hear from a different perspective. It is a risk we take in speaking up, but we can always learn from it---whether it results in something positive or if it remains a negative encounter.

Melinama spoke up, she let this person know how she felt, and look at the intense discussion that was the result. So, kudos to you Melinama and thanks again for creating this forum for us to discuss everything from novelas to censorship and everything in between.
 

A lot has been said here during the past couple of days about the right to free speech, censorship and who has the right to do what – too much in fact. Regardless, that's all very nice, but it’s also all very speculative and highly opinionated. At the end of the day, what’s really going to count is how the legal system interprets matters such as these (at least in the US). You all might be interested (maybe even a bit shocked) to learn how a US court interpreted a blogger’s right to blog…in case you are read on, otherwise disregard.

...source: BARRETT v. ROSENTHAL.

[...The trial court's conclusion that respondent's allegedly libelous statements were protected by the anti-SLAPP statute explicitly rested on subdivisions (e)(3) and (e)(4) of section 425.16, which declare that " ' an act in furtherance of a person's right of petition or free speech under the United States or California Constitution in connection with a public issue' includes ... (3) any written or oral statement or writing made in a place open to the public or a public forum in connection with an issue of public interest;...]

The legal tests here are what constitute a “statement”, and what constitutes an “issue of public interest.”

Let take the latter first:

(i) LFMB - definitely a public issue and from the mere presence of this site, clearly of public interest, so therefore the statute applies thus far.

(ii) A Statement can be defined as: a communication or declaration in speech or writing, setting forth facts, particulars, or opinions – therefore a blogger’s post clearly constitutes a “statement.”

Hence we can see (regardless of all the wishful thinking) that any comments posted on this or any blog (i.e. a public place open to the public as defined in (e)(3) above) are protected under said statute. Inasmuch, any comments made by a blogger, whether negative or otherwise, - are – protected as that blogger’s “right to free speech”. We further learn from the court's ruling, that even "libelous" statements were afforded the same protection. Therefore, any claim that a post, or an opinion, is “negative” falls well short of the test to exempt that comment from the scope of this statute or from the scope of a public forum.

Therefore Melinama, as for your “right to censor” - it actually violated this statute and your blogger’s “rights” to post on your forum otherwise know as a “public place open to the public.” Moreover, there’s no such thing as “private” on the internet – unless -- you specifically and through electronic/programmatic means restrict access onto a site to authorized account holders only, post warnings regarding unauthorized access, and enforce “pre-establish” polices (none of which were done herein).

Melinama, do the right thing, apologize to the blogger, admit you were wrong, republish their post(s), and let’s move, as all the kissing-up is becoming rather nauseating.

The only questions that haunt me about this entire discussion are:

- Why did you allow other bloggers to post dozens of comments containing all sorts of social commentary, not related to novellas, while censoring this particular blogger, because they simply said something - you didn’t like - about one of the shows?
- Also, how many other times have you censored comments in the past and your actions have gone unforeseen?

hhmmm ????
 

It's late at night and I have just happened upon this site in search of clips and notes of Dest. Amor. I've skimmed through the comments and the thoughts I'd like to share is that sure the internet is not private, and perhaps Melinama doesn't have the right (legally and technically) to censor or delete or whatever, I can't do it from where I'm sitting so she obviously has some pull. The site seems to have been going well for quite sometime with numerous people coming together to provide recaps and comments. I agree with what someone said about making your self known if a person wants to be included and make comments make yourself known mingle with the regulars don't just dip in a perfectly lovely arrangement with just negative feedback. Sometimes people don't deserve what they get but sometimes their asking for it. Why post a comment like that then check back to see what was done or said about it that shows that there was just pure negativity behind it. Its not important who knows the biggest words or who's the smartest, or knows court cases that's what's "wrong with our society" soemone wanting to be Mr. or Mrs. Smarty Pants Come out on Top. I think that this blog is really nice I will return hope to get to know some of you here, can we all just please enjoy the shows. That's what their for. Thanks Danielle Woods de Vargas
 

I'm actually in shock that this post's comments continues (with me adding to it now). Wow I woulda thought it would have been a done deal already.

I too want to see where is the original topic that started this to begin with (just out curiousity).
 

OK, here is the link to the original comment which was posted on May 5 to the recap of 4/25:
http://caraycaray.blogspot.com/2007/04/la-fea-mas-bella-4-25-proposal-pizza.html#3316133770283014410

It was only four days later when the anonymous commenter posted the identical comment again. I deleted the second instance but, as you see, the first one is still there.
 

Yikes - that is very scary! (The comment from 4-25) I'm speechless.
Ann
 

Here's a link to an article called "How To Keep Hostile Jerks From Taking Over Your Online Community" - http://informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=ZYBM0XTQABISOQSNDLPSKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=199600005
there is a comment stream for the article here:
http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2007/05/preventing_jerk.html
 

M, I read the original post and I have to say it’s opinionated. However, let’s just let this go. OK, the person has an opinion, I don’t agree with them, you don either, but all in all, they just stated an opinion, strong as it may be they are just words. Let’s get back to our telenovels, and if no one comments on this anymore (hint) maybe the person will not say things like this again.
 

melinama -- you are doing wonderful with your blog; thanks for handling this issue! at first i didn't think actor's personal lives were spoilers, but i respected your thoughts, and after reading your reasons, i totally understood your point. i don't understand why anyone would get offended by it; you are just doing the best you can and your opinion is backed by a point. plus:
1) this is your blog, and you have the right to protect it in whatever way you think is best
2) everyone is free to visit it and accept it, or not visit if they don't accept.

the reason why i loved this blog from the beginning is because in it, i found a mature audience who exchanged opinions and thoughts on a telenovela, with respect to each other. we are talking about novelas; there is no need to take each other personal!

melinama, thanks for your hard work. i love your blog!


tash
 

2 things, and I'm feeling like a dork for not having mentioned them sooner.

1: "free speech" is a compact an individual has with the government, not with other individuals. We have the right to speak our minds without being prosecuted by the US gov't. We don't have the right to say whatever we want without having other people object and/or take action.

2: the court case cited above by anonymous has no bearing on this either. It has to do with whether a blog or website owner is responsible for what other people say on his/her blog or website. Anonymous alleges that M has violated individuals' rights to "free speech" by deleting comments, which is patently impossible, given that M is not the US government.

And shame on me for not actually looking this stuff up sooner and being dazzled by some quasi-legal tap dancing.
 

I'm pretty sure no one's going to see this except Melinama, but I'd like to point something out.

When we compose a comment directly in the Comments form, anything we put in quotes has straight quotation marks (aka "inch marks").

I've noticed that certain very long-winded comments that expressed a certain point of view (some of them authored by a person who denied having posted the other comments) all have something in common: they were all composed in Word and then pasted into the Comments form.

How can I tell? Because they have "smart" quotes. That doesn't happen when you compose a message directly in the Comments window.

It's technically possible to create "smart" quotes directly from your keyboard, but most people find this to be far more trouble than it's worth, especially when attempting to create a flamewar.

So, while I was already pretty sure there was just that one troll to begin with (consistent writing style, long-windedness, pompously self-important tone, etc.), the curly quotes are pretty much what nail it, in my opinion.
 

I notice that other posts include curly quotes too, so that it itself doesn't prove anything; I've sometimes composed outside the browser, myself.

OTOH when you add that the curly quotes to the other stuff and the frequent use of terms like "thought police" I think the picture becomes clearer.