Tuesday, February 12, 2008
02/11/08 Pasión: True Lies and The Hard Truth
Ofelia, unable to admit the cruel hard facts concerning Santiago’s crude conception even to herself, let alone to the entire town, is beside herself with angst and shame. She runs to the church for some small bit of consolation and to pray. Santi sees her running into the church looking flustered and in tears.
Ofelia is telling God she’s an arrogant sinner when the priest comes by and she ends up confessing the rape that led to Santiago’s birth. The priest tells her not to blame herself unless she provoked the incident, which she is adamant she never did. What’s killing her is that she enjoyed it, leaving us all jaw-dropping, wide-eyed impactado. (Ofelia, say it ain’t so!!) Though she loved her husband dearly, she feels that in some way she deceived him. The priest tells her not to be upset over this since the Devil tempted Christ, himself, in the desert, and this seems to be the consolation that Ofelia needed.
Ofelia admits to the priest that it was Don Jorge who raped her and that Santiago is his son. She says that Sofia knows this and wants her to tell him so that he can inherit the title because he would be a benevolent governor. The priest agrees and says the region could use a decent man to rule around there. He tells her that she cannot deny her son what rightly belongs to him. Ofelia reminds him then why Santi hates Jorge and why she fears he’ll go crazy once he learns it was his father that caused him so much grief. She’s also afraid that he’ll hate her when he realizes this entire tragedy could have been avoided if she’d only yelled out to Alberto that night that Jorge could not do this to his own son.
Meanwhile, the bodaciously bouffanted Alberto has made his way to Mexico City and has gotten his interview with Don Gaspar for clues to Ric’s identity. At first Gaspar says he doesn’t recall a Lopez de Carvajal. (Oops!) When Alberto shows him the letter that Jorge sent along for the Cardinal’s purview Gaspar makes a sloppy save, saying he’s had so many things occupying his time that he is apt to forget things. Sure, though, he knows Ricardo Lopez de Carvejal. He is his godson and a man for whom he holds great affection. For just a second or three Alberto deflates, but then our cagey and dubious Alberto asks if it’s possible the man he’s talking about could have stolen his godson’s letters of reference and is actually an impostor. Gaspar good-naturedly (and with the full power of The Church behind him) insists in knowing why Mancera and he are so interested in de Carvejal.
Alberto doesn’t know where to begin and beats around the bush a bit. Gaspar chuckles and tells him that if this is important and he’s gone to the trouble of asking for this appointment weeks in advance, he is obliged to explain everything just as if he were in confession. (I don’t think Al remembers how, it’s probably been so long since the last one he made –if ever.) Alberto explains the Lord of San Fernando has serious doubts about Ric’s identity. “We have to be cautious in a quiet little town like ours, but the man appeared suddenly with the two Salamanca women—“
Gaspar interrupts to say Ric told him he’d planned to travel there, back when they were both on La Mariana and Gaspar was involved with the “tiresome” transfer of the island to France. (Hint, hint, Buffy. Gaspar’s letting you know you’re dealing with a powerful member of the clergy and a Spanish Governmental emissary here, so tread lightly.) Alberto finishes by saying they suspect he is in fact Ricardo de Salamanca, a pirate in the service of the British. Gasp!!
Back at Cami’s place, she tells Ric how much she appreciated the terrific way he handled her father with the loss of the concession, saying just the right things. She loves him more every day. She asks Ric if he knew his father. He tells her about how he died when Ric was only eight, but how he remembers him well, that some say, he was kind, but others say he was arrogant. He always treated Ric well and taught him riding and how to fight. Then their talk turns to the children they hope to have and he tells her their mother will always have a special place in his heart. They kiss and he is momentarily pained again knowing he hasn’t told her quite everything.
Jime comes in and asks if she can move to Ric’s house with Cami because she doesn’t want to live in that house alone. They say sure and the two women go to Cami’s room to gossip. Cami says with the move she won’t have time to talk to Vasco so Jime says she will go. Cami doesn’t want her to tell him about Ric’s money being stolen because he could end up blabbing it to everybody and Ric would get really angry. Jime says Vasco should know the truth, but agrees not to tell him if she can avoid it. We all know she won’t be able to, it not being in Jimena’s nature.
Chip and Dale tell Vasco about the notification that both of the concessions are being taken away, but that Justo already knows, and that they’re on their way to take the merchandise out and bring it back there. They leave. Then Justo and Ascanio come out into the patio. Ascanio tells Vasco his father already knows the score. Justo sits down with Vasco and says the world won’t come to an end even though the business has. They’ll sell the merchandise and use the cash to buy a little land and do a bit of farming.
Justo tells Vasco then that Santi was pardoned. They discuss the wedding and Vasco says he thinks they should postpone it a while. Justo says no need and asks him to see if Santi would mind a joint celebration with Cami and Ric to celebrate their wedding as well. He goes upstairs to rest and Ascanio gets with Vasco to gripe at him over why he hasn’t gone to look for Bernabe yet.
Ascanio is upset that Vasco doesn’t seem to care that if they don’t find Bernabe his sister ends up in jail. Vasco says he has no idea where the guy is and by the way, can’t her rich husband buy back their father’s concessions. Ascanio reminds him that Ric is supposed to be responsible for his wife’s needs, but not for her family’s finances. He asks Vasco if he really has kept the letter himself, but Vasco swears he doesn’t have it. Ascanio says he’d better make sure they get it back then.
Vasco says he can’t go off looking for Bernabe now because he’s promised his father he’ll get married right away. Ascanio, frustrated with this loser, says he’ll go looking for Bernabe himself. Just give him the addresses and whatever information he needs to help him locate the guy. Before he leaves though he tells Vasco that no matter what, make sure that Cami does not spend a centavo on anything! Vasco says sure thing. Ascanio is not convinced because it’s pretty obvious by now that getting Vasco to try to do anything is like pushing spaghetti if not herding cats.
Across town Santi confronts his mother about having seen her crying in the church. He says she’s flustered and he has never seen her so out of control. Ofelia tries to deny this but the talk turns to him and Ursula and her wanting him to leave her alone. He doesn’t understand why the change when the day before she was telling him what an angel she was. He asks if GRita was complaining again, but Ofelia says no. It’s just that she now thinks that Ursula is flighty and loose and may really have improper intentions towards him.
Santi says that Ursula’s sins are in the past and she shouldn’t be judged unfairly now because of them. Anybody can suddenly repent. (Famous last words.) Perhaps since she’s lonely all she needs is a kind word. Ofelia says then let her get it from some other man, not him. He argues that he’s a grown man and has sense enough to know what he’s doing, but Ofelia gets angry and yells at him that she forbids it, reminding him that Peter denied Jesus three times, and leaves. He’s totally confused by the whole argument.
Ric takes Cami to live at his hacienda. She’s worried over what kind of reaction Lis and Fran will have when they see her there. Ric says not to worry, that they’re going to understand and even so, she’s the one who runs the house now, not them. When he presents her to the staff that Lis and Fran hired she notices that gossipy Clotilde is one of them. Cami explains who she is and why she fired her but they decide to give her a second chance anyway.
Lis and Fran come in to greet them. Fran looks like she’s just eaten a big fat bunch of sour grapes. Lis offers to show Cami around and gets her nose out of joint when Ric says he’ll show her the house himself.
Ric and Cami go through the entire house. Finally they arrive at his room. They begin to kiss and end by doing what just comes naturally.
Grita, Vasco, Ines and Ofelia discuss the wedding and that Sofia has offered to pay for it entirely. Vasco mentions that Justo asked if Cami and Ric could celebrate their wedding along with Ines and Vasco’s. GRita wonders if Sofia’s paying for Cami’s also, since she and Ric have plenty of money to pay for their own. Santi says they can do their own wedding celebration separately. He also tells them that they will be going to see Doña Sofia to pay their respects and inform her about the details, but Vasco doesn’t want to bother going. Santi gets angry and says a member of Vasco’s family must go and since Justo obviously isn’t able to then it’s Vasco’s place to do it. Vasco doesn’t argue and actually falls into line!
A while later, Ines tells Ofelia that since she has had her period, they could use Justo’s illness to postpone the wedding, or even forget it altogether. She doesn’t want to marry Vasco, since she realizes now that he does not love her (DUH!) and neither of them will be happy.(Double DUH!) Ofelia says too bad but they should have thought of that beforehand. Her daughter will not be shamed. Ines wonders why that matters since nobody knows but them. Ofelia says that God knows and that’s enough. Besides, if some scandal should befall the family then at least Ines will be safely married and any gossip can’t touch her.
Sofia comes to see about Justo, but Grita tells Sofia he’s sleeping. The two of them chat about the pregnancy and Sofia tells her to worry about the child and forget the temper tantrums.
Jimena comes looking for Vasco out in the fields picking wheat. She tells him that they need to talk about the business with the letter.
Back at Ric’s, Lis and Fran are complaining to each other about the house now being Cami’s to run. Fran says it’s no different than when she married Lis’s father. This time she’ll be giving orders and treating them like mooching relatives. She says they’ll need to look for other accommodations, but Lis refuses. “Where are we supposed to go, and to whom? And don’t tell me that I should consider Don Alberto’s offer!” “—But it’s a good idea to.” “—No! We’ll just have to put up with her until we can find a way to get her out of here.” Fran starts to say with Ric so in love it’s unlikely, but Lis stops her and says, “He’s not in love, just….er…..horny.”
Lis says that now that Ric’s plans to help them recover her father’s fortune have gone up in smoke and his money has been stolen, there is no reason for him to stick around. More than likely he’ll return to the sea to replace what’s been stolen. She wonders if his plan was to get his father’s fortune back, and that now that he’s gotten it perhaps they should leave. Then she asks Fran if she thinks Cami would ask him to settle down there in San Fernando. Fran hasn’t a clue, but thinks he’s up to something considering the men he brought with him and the mysterious meetings and trips he takes with them.
Lis says she’ll ask Pablo, the wounded man they brought there, what he knows. In the meantime they’ll go to town and meet with people they know and find out what they think about Camila’s wedding. Perhaps they’ll discover something really bad about Cami that they can tell Ric about, under the pretext of wanting to know more about Santiago. Fran asks, “What’s going on with Santiago?” “—Why, he’s in jail!” Fran just shakes her head as if to say, “White trash!”
Vasco tells Jimena what he told Ascanio about not being able to leave to go looking for Bernabe, and that they only have to insure that Cami doesn’t spend any money on things. Jimena asks if he really believes she’d pay attention to them. So Vasco says then Ric should take care of her debt, but Jime says he really doesn’t have the money. Vasco stops in his tracks and asks Jimena just what she means by that. Jime has no choice then and explains how his whole fortune was what was in the caravan that got robbed. She tells him that neither one wanted anybody to know, and she threatens that if he says one word that she will “cut off that particular part of his anatomy that he’s so proud of…..”
Vasco worries that with both Ric and Cami losing their fortunes they’re all screwed. Jimena changes the subject to Ursula and says she knows he’s been sleeping with her. She explains that doesn’t really matter to her, what does is how he gets in and out of the palace at night. (You gotta love the way this girl thinks.) He says that he has keys and she asks if she can have them for a while and then return them. Vasco wants to know first what she plans to do with those keys, and then he’ll decide to give them to her or not.
Jorge meets with his gang of bully boys to formally sign over the documents for Justo’s mill and store to them. Gonzo mentions that there is another silver caravan coming through there from Veracruz in a few days and they should rob it. Jorge says he’d rather wait till Alberto returns to do anything. Gonzo complains that Alberto doesn’t do a thing but sit and watch while he and the others do the heavy lifting and nearly get their brains knocked out while they’re at it. Jorge says that Alberto is careful and sensible and looks out for everyone’s safety. That’s why he trusts him.
Gonzo starts griping now over getting just a mill while the others got a portion from that recently jacked caravan of coins and jewels that belonged to Ric. He’s really steamed that not only was he ripped off because he was away on that stupid island doing an errand for Jorge at the time, but he was promised he could marry that rich young widow (presumably for her money to pay off his daddy’s debts), and ol’ Jorge let the pirate snatch her away and marry her himself. The only thing he gets is some crummy old mill.
Jorge warns Gonzo it isn’t good to spit in the same plate you eat from. Gonzo grumbles and says that since there’s nothing but scraps in that plate he’d rather go look for his own food and exits stage left.
Jimena arrives at Ric’s with hers and Cami’s things. The two women go to the master bedroom to put things away. Ric and Mario are in Ric’s office. Mario says he’s sent Pablo off now since he was so much better. He complains that the guys are getting anxious and are fighting amongst themselves. Even he feels like he’s in some kind of prison. They all miss the sea and need to get back there. Ric surprises him and says they’ll be sailing again soon.
Just then Jime and Cami enter. Mario and Jime flirt. “What a pleasure to see you, my lady!” “—Well if it’s that much of a pleasure why didn’t you come to visit me? You knew where I was.” “—I didn’t think you would be that happy to see me, but I’m glad to see it wasn’t that way.” “—Well, don’t think I was exactly dying to see you, but since I’m going to be living here, we might as well get along.” “—I was thinking the same thing.” He tries to kiss her hand but she jerks it away on purpose just at the last moment and runs off with Cami.
Mario says to Ric that Jimena is such a pretty girl, it’s too much for him. Ric teases his friend and asks him what he’s waiting for. She’s the perfect woman for him. Mario says he has a mind to find her room and enter it that night for a nice tumble, but Ric warns him off and says, “Hey, that’s my wife’s friend you’re talking about.” So Mario says better then for him to head to the nearest whorehouse to take care of bidnez.
The conversation turns back to why Ric is heading back to sea. He admits to missing it but he also needs to earn a lot of cash. He says this time though, they’ll be going as merchants. Mario is depressed when he hears this. “We’re in the pirate biz! “ Even with two boats, he complains, the booty they could expect as merchants would never earn enough for what they’d want even in a hundred years. Ric looks like he’s having second thoughts.
Jime and Cami are gossiping in the master bedroom. Jime says she has something important to tell Cami but Ric comes in and the conversation changes. Ric and Cami decide to eat in there and Jimena excuses herself to eat with Lis and Fran supposedly in the dining room later.
Ric in between kisses tells Cami that he has two boats, “La Salamandra”, which she is already (and once woefully) familiar with; the other he says is a newer boat “La Camila” which he named in her honor. He tells her in between more kisses and caresses that “fate made us find each other and luck united us. God willing, it will be forever.”
Lis and Fran are walking through the hallway a bit later and see the servants bringing supper to Ric’s room. Lis has a fit because Ric and Cami are eating and…whatever… in their room together that night. She refuses then to go to the dining room with Fran and rushes angrily off to her room to sulk.
Jimena and Mario end up have dinner alone together. He tells her how much he and the other men miss their life at sea. She worries that if Ric doesn’t settle down Cami will be forever worried never knowing from one day to the next whether she’ll get word that he’s died in a battle or drowned at sea during a storm. Mario wonders if she didn’t realize this before getting involved with him. Jime says sure, but he told her he was retired from the life. Mario says, no, that’s going to be a while still. Jime says Cami will never be able to stand that, but he says she’ll have to.
A bit later in the conversation, Jime asks Mario if he’ll keep a secret if she tells him. He teases her about it being gossip and she gets upset saying women don’t just gossip. They have serious things to discuss also. She gets up and says forget it and starts to walk away, but he stops her and says if it’s important then she should tell him. She says no thanks and starts to skip away. Mario quickly grabs her and, in one smooth move, draws her to him and kisses her on the mouth. The nice thing is she kisses back.
Labels: Pasion
Spineless Cami telling Jimena about Ricardo's secret is going to come back to bite her as it should. But, if Jimena managed to get the keys, she may be able to redeem herself and Cami.
Waiting for Mario's move was worth it...
jb-Iron Jack Cash
Ofelia: No, no, no, no, he isn't!
Sofia: Yes, yes, yes, he is!
Santi: What, what, why me?
Vasco: Duh!
Ric: Te amo, te amo.
Camila: Tambien.
Mario: Vamonos muchachos!
From lower Ala
They will probably just get interrupted again, but it was a great moment nonetheless. I think I shrieked a little bit. :)
You guys are all great. This show is a ton of fun & the best part is meeting up with everyone the next day for clarifications, plot theories, and laughs.
In the beginning, the whacky wigs kept distracting me but now, it's La BoufFont's incredible construction of hair...that man must spend millions on mousse & hair spray to get that thing shaped. Too bizarre!
M from CT
:-)
Ric acts as though the anvil is starting to sway over him and I still don't understand what he has to lose! She loves him. She is his wife. WHAT is at risk? What am I missing?
Cami needs a food taster. I decided that already but I'm still making a list of who could take the job. Vasco is unemployed, but he didn't even know it. And with his willingness to be supported by his new brother-in-law all Ric would need to do is tell him come on over. Vasco would float on over stay the night into weeks and need not know he has a job or what it is.
Then there's gRita. She will be available in what she estimates to be 2 or 3 months. Does she really want a child or was it just a way to cement her marriage!
Well, thats my long and short list. Maybe Camilla will only eat fresh fruit and drink water from the birdbath.
This novela is getting better and better every day! Hopefully, Jimi will spill it soon about the keys and Ric will get his treasure back.
I agree about LaFont's hair. I find myself staring at it and wondering if the front is glued on or something! Too distracting!
Susanlynn..loved your description of Whorheys friends!
Bonney Morgan - just in case you were asking seriously about the anvil, Ric has plenty to lose if that ED letter ends up in the hands of Lis or Fran. It'd be like hitting the RESET button on everything that's happened in Cami's, Jimena's, and Ascanio's lives since the day Tim died. (Yet Claudio would still be wanted for murdering his murderous uncle.) Cami would owe back every penny she's spent on freeing her friends from slavery, plus clothes, jewelry, housing, fixing her father's mill, etc. She'd end up in debtors' prison and her friends would be slaves again.
If Ric had all of his money, he could immediately buy Jimena and Ascanio out of slavery, pay off all the other debts, and get on with their lives. But he doesn't. Plus, his name still isn't cleared yet for murdering that woman, AND he's still wanted for pirating.
So I don't blame him for being a little bit nervous.
I do have an idea for who Cami's food tester could be, though. I nominate Clothilde!
Thank you Julie, and for a great applicant for food taster position too.
When Mario made his move at the end, my wife punched me in the arm. I think everyone was waiting for that moment more than any other, judging by the comments and my wife's reaction. Those two are obviously doing their jobs as actors to get that kind of reaction. They are both great actors and I hope to see more of them.
And Susanlynn I didn't know the name of those waves was Marcel, where did you learn that? I like the Dali image too for the mighty mustache. What a bunch of buffoons. I assume the third dimwit, Gonzalo is it, walking out preferring to find his own treasure means trouble down the road, probably for him most of all. Jorge was none too pleased with the rebuff.
Let my voice be added to the choral chant, oooohhh Mario. ooooohhh Jimena. Such a lovely kiss and Jimena really enjoyed it too. Speaking of enjoy, I was tickled to hear Ofelia say she enjoyed her romp with old Jorge or did she mean to imply that she got Santi out of it, so I vote for: she really did enjoy it. And just to round out the theme of enjoyment, Ric and Camila seem to be enjoying their passionate moments. I like her kind of shy blooming into a more passionate lover with each episode. And who wouldn't like to be in those scenes with Ricardo.
Barbara from Pembroke, MA
just FYI, to the fernando fans, esmas is hosting a chat with fernando colunga this friday (feb 15...just on time for valentine's day :)) in which members who sign in can have a chance to chat with fer. http://www.esmas.com/usa/pasion/noticias/
Yes, Jorhey is a clear speaker, along with the others mentioned. It makes a huge difference for me in addition to how fast they speak. Sometimes I have to rely on the captions to follow.
I should be working on my past subjunctives, but the only construction I caught was Mario making moves (MMM). We may have a replay to look forward to tonight...
jb-Iron Jack Cash
ewwwwww!!!!
M from CT
:-0
JPPumpkinV, I love Jorge's voice too, it is lovely and clear, wonder if he sings? He has those wonderful bass tones like James Earl Jones. I feel like I have had some of my best Spanish lessons listening to people like him, Fernando of course and other galáns like Eduardo Yánez who all speak rather clearly. Then there is the fun of the endearing Eduardo Santamarina on Yo Amo a Juan who speaks so fast and uses so much slang, it is a different test of your abilities.
PS: I'm sure he is going to find out the Santi is his son, but who's to say that he's going to like him or accept him. Jorge is healthy looking enough that he could be around for a long time.
An acidic rinse like vinegar (with herbs or flowers in it so it doesn't smell so bad) or lemon juice helps to get the cruddy bar soap residue out of your hair. And aloe (if they were using aloe in those days) is better than nothing for taming frizzy curls.
So they did have a few options. Still, I don't know how they could stand it. The smell isn't such an issue if everyone else smells bad too, but it doesn't take long for my scalp to get so itchy I want to scratch it off.
Unless Gonzalo does something dumb in a drunken rage. Or maybe Jorge could get sick. I think someone already suggested a social disease, but syphilis is way too slow.
I know what you mean about Jorge's clear speaking voice, though. I used to look forward to Evil Ariel's scenes when I was doing LFMB, because he always spoke proper Spanish in a clear voice, with no mumbling, and no confusing slang or folksy expressions.
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Pasofino:
"Ofelia: No, no, no, no, he isn't!
Sofia: Yes, yes, yes, he is!
Santi: What, what, why me?
Vasco: Duh!
Ric: Te amo, te amo.
Camila: Tambien.
Mario: Vamonos muchachos!"
That rocks!
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MadBess/Susanlynn: I don't know where you get it so early in the morning, but your comments just crack me up and are better than a caffeine buzz --greatly needed after a long night spent recapping. I only wish you could recap!!
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pirate babe: I am soooo looking forward to the inevitable scenes between Jimena and Clothilde once Cloe foolishly makes her move and decides to open her mouth to Lis and Aunt Fran as you know she will!!
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Welcome, JPPV! Thankyou, and everyone is welcome to say whatever they care to. One thing about telenovelas is that you become very familiar with those actors who enunciate and those who don't. You/we are above recrimination for said comments regarding their characters' abilities. They are routinely criticized or not on this blog for whatever sins their characters may commit within the purview of the novela. Have at it --and them! WE won't hold you accountable. Just, if you stick your toe into the water, make sure you can swim!! >;3)
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We could cut Vasco a break--maybe he was just checking the maturity of the wheat crop for later harvest. At harvest time, we need all the hawt guys out in the field with no shirts on.
Someone needs to remind Jimena that loose lips sink ships! She only thinks she can keep a secret.
Mario is just irresistable!
La Paloma
=/; >)
Marcel waves were made with a heated iron. Hair products were mostly oils and grease, to create a shine. Bear grease was used in North American colonial times, and probably lard as well. Hair pomade was another product in use.
La Paloma
“What’s killing her is that she enjoyed it, leaving us all jaw-dropping, wide-eyed impactado. (Ofelia, say it ain’t so!!)” We definitely were awestruck here. No wonder she’s adamant not to let it come out—that and she could have prevented it by outing the Jorge/Santi connection the night he sent his stooges for Cami.
“Gaspar makes a sloppy save, saying he’s had so many things occupying his time that he is apt to forget things.” LOL—that was the sloppiest save on record—his own GODSON? If Bouffant doesn’t pick up on that slip of the tongue, he deserves to lose everything. What am I saying? He deserves to lose everything anyway. Gaspar’s offense, to ask what he and Jorge want with Ricardo, now that was good. Maybe Bouffant will worry a little about that.
“(Hint, hint, Buffy. Gaspar’s letting you know you’re dealing with a powerful member of the clergy and a Spanish Governmental emissary here, so tread lightly.)” ROTFLLL!!!
“they suspect he is in fact Ricardo de Salamanca, a pirate in the service of the British. Gasp!!” Like he and Jorge aren’t in the service of the British? Tsk. What goes around, comes around. It’s just the British in both cases is Foreman.
“Lis has a fit because Ric and Cami are eating and…whatever… in their room together that night. She refuses then to go to the dining room with Fran and rushes angrily off to her room to sulk.” No wonder she’s so skinny. Every time she has a tantrum, she doesn’t eat. Wish it worked that way in real life.
Loved everyone’s great comments!
Jeanne
Maybe the writers didn't want to put it into the mix that Jorge violently assaulted and traumatized Santi's mother. That way the only thing he really resent him for Camila, not his mom too? Still pretty awful.
Jeanne (go ahead, do your calculations on how old I am, see if I care)
I was so ramped up last night after surviving 2 hours iceskating home in my car through 200 miles of hill and dale, that after a couple of copas and a few cheroots, I looked up and it was 6 hours later! My brain was on FF and I actually cut out a couple of choice sentences because I couldn't even read them to myself let alone out loud without crossing my eyes and giggling. That would have probably been guilding the not quite proverbial gardenia, so to speak.....
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Mad Bess/Susanlynn:
I vote that we dub those two bad boys of Jorge's "Marcel" and "Dali".
Jeanne (back from another trip and long day of meetings)
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