Caray, Caray!

Jean and Melinama--thanks so much for setting this up for us!

I'm not all caught up on this week's episodes, but I did want to comment on the brothers' attitudes since Juan fell in love with Norma. I've only seen a couple of Fuego episodes but I've been reading the recaps (they are so funny that I feel like I should also watch the show to get a good laugh!), and it seems like Fuego-Juan is portrayed as more vindictive than Gavilanes-Juan. Fuego-Juan seems to feel very guilty about his feelings for Sofia (Norma in Gavilanes), like he's betraying Libia and the revenge pact, whereas Gavilanes-Juan seems completely unapologetic. In Gavilanes lately, it seems like the Reyes brothers have forgotten about getting revenge, or have I missed something? For all of Oscar's complaining that Juan shouldn't be with Norma, I don't recall him saying "what about the revenge plan? What about Libia?"
 

Hi Debbie: No problem!

Since on PdG they don't have a Cave of Recrimination and Bad Acting and their oath to take revenge didn't involve thorns or blood, naturally their desire for revenge is less strong. ;-)

Seriously, PdG Juan was never that on board with Óscar's (I think) love 'em and leave 'em revenge plan. Juan's idea of revenge was to bust into the Hacienda and shoot Grabi. Juan really loves Norma though and I think he has moved beyond the revenge motive at least as far as she is concerned.

I also have some catching up to on this week's PdG but it was a hoot when the cabaña just collapsed like a house of cards!
 

Yay!

I'll probably stay away just in case there's some spoilery overlap to Fuego, but I love this idea. When Fuego's all done, I can come back and read what I missed on Galivanes.

I was so excited to get a new TV that has CC3... alas, I wasn't able to get a new cable company too. Therefore, no Telemundo. :(
 

Jean: Good point about the absence of the cave/thorns/blood (hee hee!).

Yes, I think the plan was Oscar's idea. I remember now that niether Juan nor Franco were particularly enthused about it, although until Juan fell for Norma, it seemed like there was still something simmering under the surface, like that short temper of his might lead to him inadvertently wreaking revenge. I felt sorry for him when Norma told him she was going to stay with Fernando (it's those puppy-dog-eyes, the same ones Hugo had on Tracion this week when he asked Soledad to forgive him, *sigh*). But how come he didn't ask if the baby was his?

That was funny when the house fell--and lucky for Norma, I hope.
 

Hola, mi fellow "Juanchas"! :-)

Julie, Rhonda, and any other poor souls (like me) who don't get Telemundo... I compiled playlists of the first 100 or so episodes of "PDG" on Youtube. I can email you the links if you'd like. Send you address to marie_r_1658@yahoo.com. I also own the official DVD of PDG & there are so many really great moments missing that you really owe it to yourselves to watch it on youtube, especially the 1st 50 episodes which are crucial.

When you guys get caught up with this week's episodes, let me know the last thing than happened on Friday so I can follow along with you online starting Monday, ok? Looking forward to it!
 

Howdy =)

Debbie, I think Juan hasn't asked because he's pretty sure the baby is his. Norma told him she's not knocking boots with Feonando (I stole the name from Fuego) and the fortune teller told him he's got a kid on the way. Although I'm surprised he isn't fighting for his child, I think he's taking the "I have to respect her decision even if it breaks my heart" approach.

Between PdG, LT, and Guapos, this has been a particularly teary week in the world of TNs.

Although Mario's not playing two characters in this one, I actually think this one is a better acting showcase for him as he goes from his short fused temper with his brothers to sobbing and broken hearted over Norma. I can't decide how I feel about the fact that after all the sex and making a baby together, they still address each other with the formal "usted." Maybe it's 'cause they don't usually spend their time together talking...

I gotta say, I think this one is my favorite TN at the moment.
 

Hi Margarita: There was some discussion about tú/usted thing over on TW. The consensus seemed to be that Juan would of course use usted with Norma until she told him otherwise - a class thing. She uses usted with him out of respect to not make the difference so obvious. They went to tú though in the episode where Juan shows Norma his house and the bakery.

I am totally enchulada over LT but I like PdG too.
 

Hi Marie Celeste: I'm caught up - a nice rainy weekend of watching PdG! Hey it's too wet to work in the garden.

At the end of Friday's episode, Óscar has just brought Jimena to the Casa Reyes after Grabi threw them out of the Hacienda. Juan and Quintina have hurriedy and ( obviously, from the previews) incompletely stashed Libia's stuff in the attic.

I was kind of surprised that Juan let Óscar spin his tale about how the brothers ended up building the cabana but maybe he was just amazed at the ingenuity of it and, of course, it protected Eva. I noticed that everybody forgot how Eva started her explanation by saying that it was very serious and had started several months before the brothers started working.
 

Marie Celeste,

I’m going to use this posting site but I’ll probably leave a post on LT as well. I would love to have a Youtube playlist of the PdG episodes that you mentioned you had. I assume this is just a
Word document isn’t a lot of work to forward. I emailed you yesterday afternoon but I don’t know if the email went into the dark abyss or if you haven’t checked your email. Please just post an answer either here or on LT when you get a chance and I’ll resend my email. Thanks!

Nancy
 

Nancy,
I'm so sorry; I emailed you last night but apparently something went amiss. I'll resend to you and Rhonda ASAP.
 

Marie Celeste: Thanks for the play list! (I got it early this morning) I've gone through the first eight today, so it will take me a few weeks to catch up, even if I obsessively watch. But PDG is in an entirely different class than Fuego, so I probably will be obsessively watching!

Melinama and Jean: Many thanks for this blog. My listening comprehension has really improved these past few months in large part thanks to finding out at Caray Caray about LT - it may just be my favorite telenovela ever in my limited two year experience. I don't know if Telemundo has better productions or if it's just my shameless middle-aged-married-woman- telenovela-imaginary-crush on Mario. Whatever the case, thanks to all for the information!
 

Jean: "Enchulada?" There's new one for me. I'm guessing from context it means your pretty nuts about it, huh? ;-)

Rhonda: Glad you got the 1st email, but I did send another with links to more and updated lists.
I agree that the Telemundo TN's seem to be more appealing. This could be my bias as a US, non-Latina viewer, but they seem a little less overblown, if that's the right word.

I don't know if the Televisa novelas cater to a more specifically Mexican audience (although they're world-wide successes), but I do see a difference between Mexican & Colombian productions. Could also be the difference is most obvious regarding (and possibly restricted to) remakes. The Mexican remakes I've seen, - "La Fea Mas Bella", "La Usupadora", "Fuego en la Sangre" - have all been quite over the top, perhaps because that was the only direction to take them make them stand out. Don't know..

Anyway, I do love PDG & feel it is a very well-excuted telenovela, questionable moral situations aside. Me on a soapbox here: I admit I love Juan & Norma, but I do find myself conflicted that I cheer for this couple that consists of a grown woman who entered into a loveless (albeit pressured and, yes, celibate) marriage, who pretty blithely begins an affair with the way-too tempting construction worker who (thankfully) does much better work in bed than on the building site.
Yes, Norma's marriage was a monumental error & in spirit, really isn't a marriage (no consummation), but they both pretty much ignore the legal/religious ties that bind Norma & charge full steam ahead.

I never understood why Norma agreed to marry Fernando anyway. I can't believe she had no better options. He didn't have any hold over her family that I can recall. Hateful Gabriela just thought he was the bees knees & pushed Norma into it and apparently dad Bernardo didn't have the cojones to stand up to her. (Heyyyyyy...aren't we seeing this same actor play this same character in "LT"?? Let's hear it for Germán Rojas, master thespian specializing in weak-ass father characters! ;-))

So with the combo of the bad marriage circumstance & the fact that Juan & Norma are just so darn beautiful together, we just can't help but want to see them as a couple. It's curious to me how "Fuego" has heightened all the characters' personalities to almost caricature levels - both good and bad - making the budding relationship between Sofia & Juan even that much more palatable. Does this make it more culturally acceptable? Could be. In PDG, the characters are written closer to the realm of "real" people, so it makes me think a little more analytically about what's really going on. Too bad for them everyone is doing such a good job, or I wouldn't even be bothering. ;-)
 

Marie Celeste--although I haven't been watching telenovelas for very (I started watching last Decemeber), I too think the Telemundo novelas are more appealing. Of the Televisa shows I've seen "Pasion", "Al Diablo Con Los Guapos," and a few "Fuego" episodes, and of the Columbian ones LT and PdG. Not only do the latter seem less over-the-top (well, as long as you don't count Beatriz's torture chamber), but the production quality is better. I have especially noticed this with the sound. Not being a native Spanish speaker, I already have a hard enough time understanding everything that's being said, but it's even more difficult when you have background sounds overpowering the actors. And it makes it hard to take the production seriously (e.g., the gurgling fountain and braying donkey in Fuego, although that makes for a good laugh and hilarious recaps).

Also, you mentioned "La Usupadora"--I tuned in to an episode this week out of curiosity after I heard that Mario is in it--if not for his voice I don't think I would have recognized him!

Re: this Friday's episodes, I was surprised that Juan gave Jimena such a warm welcome when Oscar brought her to the house--I wonder how long that will last? Isn't he mad about the whole Oscar and Jimena thing, because didn't Norma tell him that because of them she decided to stay with Fernando?
 

Hello fellow Juanchas =)

First, I must thank Jean and Melinama for setting up this little gem =) I've been dying to talk to someone about this one and it was getting hard to talk about it on the other ones as I've fallen way behind =(

Re: Telemundo vs Televisa - I do get the feeling that Telemundo has a little more $$ to spend on sets, etc, which definitely add to the production values. It does seem that they target a wider Spanish speaking demographic than Televisa which is targeting Mexicans in particular. Prior to Alborada, I hadn't watched TNs in over a decade (and now that I'm up to five of them for 6 hours of watching per day, I can definitely remember why!) but at the risk of sounding like a cranky old lady, I do get the sense that Televisa's stuff is not as good as it once was. Still, they do have a lot of good TNs out there (I am a big fan of "Guapos" and absolutely loved "Pasion" and "Alborada") and sometimes it's a question of what's playing at each of them at any given time. I remember brief spots of "Marina" (aired in a time slot between "Zorro" and "Dame Chocolate" towards it's end and I was always catching bits) and it was nothing to write home about. I do get the sense that Televisa has been getting carried away with the remakes over the last few years (both of foreign and Mexican TNs) and that may be part of the problem. Case in point: the "Maria" trilogy with Thalia. All three were remakes of very successful TNs and not exactly for the better. Dunno if that's their way of "not fixing what's not broken" or if they simply have run out of good ideas. I suppose time will tell. I am such a geek!!!!

Anywhoo, back to the TN at hand: Although I like the fact that the villains are easier to hate, that Libia actually had a spine, that the priest role is a larger and far more likable character, and that the new grampa is funny (though both versions of him are quite good) I definitely prefer this version to the new one. It's not just that the brothers are older, or that the guy playing Franco can't act his way out of a paper bag, or even the writing (the story has potential and the changes they made are interesting enough), maybe it's the directing? Couldn't tell you, it's just weak and doesn't quite have the same impact.

Marie Celeste: I think Gabby actually thought (and maybe even convinced useless Bernie) that having a loving, caring, husband would help Norma's emotional wounds heal faster than dealing with it on her own. Norma was probably still in shock from the rape, and was completely blindsided by mom who planned the wedding in no time at all. By the time she was able to digest what a mess she was getting into, it was too late and she was already married. You do get the sense in both versions that she's tried to get out of it, but Feonando won't grant her a divorce. As far as her jumping into bed with Juan (and man did that happen fast! I think they'd exchanged a few dozen words!) she'd pretty much given up on her marriage and knew (and didn't care) that hubby had been unfaithful. I don't condone either of them for their cheating, but Feonando was desperate to be with ANYONE, and she was desperate to actually feel desire for a man, ANY man. I think Juan feels a little guilty for taking away someone else's woman (esp when his rival tried to off himself), but Feonando's such a pill and he loves Norma so much he was willing to live with it. As for German Rojas, I remember the "discomfort" many voiced during the first two episodes of FelS when they saw the Bernie/Libia love scenes. I thought to myself, "geez, Carlos Bracho is a stud compared to the guy they cast in the Colombian version!"

Debbie: Juan may be pissed at Oscar for losing him Norma, but he still loves him and feels sorry for Jimena. In addition to falling for Norma, I think he decided to forget his PoV when he realized the Elizondos were not the pack of wolves he imagined they'd be. He realizes Jimena probably cares for Oscar and is in for some bitter disappointments.

Quick questions to the group:
1) Is it me, or do they have the same actress playing Quintina and Raquel? I was looking at a closeup of Raquel and it definitely looked like the same actress with a wig and some fake eyebrows.

2) Was "La Usurpadora" about a wealthy woman who meets another woman that looks just like her and hires her to take her place with her family so she can take a vacation from them? If so, it was originally a Mexican TN back in the early 80s starring Angelica Maria (Lety's mom in LFMB) and Juan Ferrara (Jorge in "Pasion") called "El Hogar que yo Robe" (The Home I Stole). Just curious.
 

Great commments all!

Re: Televisa and Telemundo TN's. It agree that lately the Telemundo novelas, I'm thinking of LT and Zorro had higher production values than some of the Televsisa ones. Both PdG and LT are remakes thoughs so that can't be the excuse for the difference.

Concerning Norma and Feonando, I have gathered from the PdG forum over on TW that PdG was a remake of a novela called Las Aguas Mansas that was set in Colombia in the late 1940's. The early episodes of PdG actually used the scripts of LAM. In the time and culture that LAM was set, a raped woman was damaged goods and the family would have been grateful for anyone who would marry her. The fact that Grabi can keep all her adult daughters at home also makes more sense in the time that LAM was set.

The extremely rapid relationship of Juan and Norma was sort of surprising especially when Norma appears to be willing to give Juan up to protect her mother's sanity but who knows how one would react on the receiving end of Mario's passionate stares!

Raquel is played by María Margarita Giraldo (who played Azucena, the wife of the gypsy patriarch (played by German Rojas) in Zorro). Why they put her in that awful wig, I don't know. I'm sure there are older actresses who could have played the part. I don't know who plays Quintina but it isn't the same actress.

Someone over on TW used the word "enchulada". "Chulada" is a Mexican slang word for pretty and "enchulada" is sort of made up from that I guess. I just liked the word. I am totally obsessed with LT. It is by far and away my favorite TN ever. I think about it all the time. Of course, I don't want it to end but in a way I do so I can get my life back.

I will make a new post for PdG after today's episode.
 

Marie Celeste - Just a quick thanks for the additional links. Your work on putting these lists together is very impressive. Thanks so much for sharing.
 

Margarita: I was thinking the same thing about how fast Norma and Juan got together, since they had hardly spoken to each other. And on one of the few times they actually exchanged words, at the very beginning, I think Norma was snotty to Juan and told him to stop looking at her like that. LOL!

From the "La Usupadora" summary I read on Telenovela World, it sounds like the same story you described of the novela from the '80s. I think LU was made about 10 years ago. Mario plays Luciano, and Fernando Colunga is in it too.
 

Howdy =)

Jean and Debbie, thanks for answering all my questions.

After today's episode, I am even more sure of a theory that appeared in my little head (no idea if it's got any possibilities and it certainly won't happen in FelS): Feonando ends up with Sarita! She does seem to dote on him and honestly thinks he's a good guy (though she did say something to her mom along the lines of "it's bad enough you let Fernando live in this house" after the Oscar/Jimena wedding). She seems to think that perhaps married couples should live on their own and often councils him to protect his marriage and lectures Norma about the way she treats him. Marie Celeste, I'm sure you know the answer to this, but I know you're not a "spoiler" kind of gal and we all appreciate it as it must be difficult to know what's going to happen next and not be able to say anything.

Take care my fellow Juanchas ;)
 

Hi Margarita: Sarita has been such a goody two shoes lecturing everyone about their duties that she deserves to end up with a slimeball like Feonando. They do seem to be of one mind.
 

Thanks, Jean and Melinama for indulging us!

I'm catching up on PDG - had a month's worth taped and no time to watch. Last night I skipped ahead and saw an episode from last week.

Sarita is such a prig in this - I like here character in Fuego much better. The Jimena/Franco pairing caught me by surprise, as did Franco being so willing to get Jimena to marry him - all for the vengeance game.

My heart was breaking when Juan took Norma to his house, and asked if she could love him despite his lack of education, class and money.
I loved his fierceness when he said he would use his hands, his will, to get ahead in life. Love that man! Plus, he has sexy hair.

Now that I'm caught up on "Rubi", I can start on PDG. And keep up with "Fuego" and "Victoria". "La Usurpadora" will have to wait.
It's a tough life!
 

I love this show, I love this show, I LOVE THIS SHOW!!! It's so fun to read all your reactions! Because I started watching PDG online last fall, it's true that I do have a leg up on you all so far, but at 2 hours a day, I'll have to keep busy to stay ahead because that lead will shrink in no time! ;-)

Margarita: Funny! I had the opposite reaction to the Carlos Bracho/German Rojas comparison of the Bernardo character. I saw Carlos Bracho all cuddly with Sherilyn & all I could think of was, "Eeeeeewwwww! She's doing it with Don Humberto Mendiola, and he's not wearing his glasses!!" Maybe it was the bad hair dye job, but I thought he was sooooooo unappealing. German Rojas at least has sweet eyes & a little more meat on his bones!

RE: the Norma/Juan whirlwind of passion - I know Norma had a bad marriage situation & all, but I heard Danna Garcia say in an interview that Norma was always the "good girl" and carried a heavy sense of propriety. I saw a litle of that, but not until she & Juan were already involved.

I just thought that between that and the rape, I expected her to fight against her desire for Juan a little more than she did. The kicker to me was the scene in which she finally decided to rendevous with him, where she just said to herself aloud with a kind of flippant smile, "Why not?" It just seemed too lacking in gravity for her. Then, when she gets to the hotel room, it was hang on to your hats folks!

I've rewritten that scene in my head to have Norma much more hesitant & halting, and when she finally realizes she doesn't want to run, she asks Juan for just one thing: that he not hurt her. This strikes Juan's heart deeply - that this elegant, seemingly arrogant society woman is really just wounded and lonely - that his tender side just completely takes over. (Mario conveyed that sense soooo well in their first love scene. I love that scene...(sigh)

As for Juan feeling guilty about stepping out with Fernando's wife? Not so much. There's a tense scene later where Juan tells him to his face that it never bothered him because as far as he was concerned, Norma was never married and Fernando never existed. (Not a brilliant speech at that moment because Fernando is pointing a pistol at him at the time, and he is, in fact, still her husband.) We come to recognize this as classic Juan Reyes - a heart of gold, more b*lls than brains, and all the patience of a lit fuse (except when it comes to Norma, of course).

This is why he's so warm to Jimena when she moves in after the wedding. Now that his love for Norma has cooled his own need for retribution, his deep protective sense kicks in. He knows Jimena is innocent & will be hurt if Oscar is still clinging to the Plan of Vengeance and doesn't truly love her. Later on in the bakery, he makes her promise that if Oscar ever treats her badly, she must let him know. (Awww...)

This has already been answered, but all are correct; "La Usurpadora" was a remake of "El Hogar Que Yo Robe". It's not one of Fernando Colunga's best performances, but he had improved since the days of the "Maria" trilogy. Mario Cimarro's part is pretty minimal, and yes; he definitely looks different with straight hair. Different but still very attractive. In my opinion, he still needed more length to it, so when he finally did that & then added the curls - Shazam!!! A hair legend was born.....

Here's a link from "Gente Bien", a creepy Televisa novela from 1997, and the first time I saw Mario onscreen. The hair definitely caught my eye, but the deltoids were a pleasant bonus. ;-)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JYdq6D674uI
 

It just occurred to me that I may owe an apology to people for a perceived “spoiler” that occurs in the sixth paragraph in my previous post. I didn’t consider it a spoiler as it doesn’t really give away any major story developments, but rather just served to confirm a point already been made by myself and others. I apologize for any consternation to anyone as a result of my remark, and I’ll be sure to consider future comments even more carefully.
 

PdG Juan is a total dish! The guy who plays Juan (but is called Arturo) in Tierra de Reyes is good looking and a bit less of a hick than Juan in PdG but he is not as tall and spectacular as Mario Cimarro. As for the guy who plays Samuel in TdR (the younger brother known as Franco in PdG) who on earth cast him? He is chubby and nowhere near as handsome and angelic as Franco in PdG (despite the annoying goatee). He looks as if he could lose a few pounds. TdR has had more money poured into the production and it looks the part, but also the story flows better than PdG and Fernando is an out and out psychopath villain from the very start, unlike in PdG. Although PdG is more raw and the main couple Juan/Norma (Arturo/Sofia in TdR) are sexier and have more chemistry than TdR, there are quite a few points in favour of TdR. My number one is that the older rich woman that marries Franco (Samuel) is much better treated in TdR. She is a whole character not a silly and offensive caricature. She is kind, generous and a good friend to the brothers, and they in turn have great respect for her. She is also introduced from episode 2 as one who was friends with the father of the three heroines and as having cancer and fearing remission. So much more believable as a character than Eduvina in PdG. Also, in TdR the 'reasons' for three young, wealthy women staying with their mother who excuses their rapist, despite having a child or being married seem to be a bit less hysterical and the cray cray a bit toned down.
It'll be good to see comments that compare the two versions (I have not seen Fuego, and I am not that keen on seeing it frankly) . It' d be interesting to read what people find as more interesting in PdG than TdR and vice versa, keeping in mind not so much the ten years between them but the production costs. It is obvious TdR has had much more money behind it (and it shows in the production values, the de Junco ranch in Houston looks the part, while the Elizondo one does not. Jimena and Sarita in PdG share a bedroom FPS!) .