Saturday, May 23, 2009
MEPS, 05/22/09: Franco Santoro, Man of Mystery or…I Haven’t Got a Clue—Have You?
Capítulo 69
As we begin at Las Animas, it is some time in the morning. Eduardo and Padre Bosco are still arguing the merits of the Mexican caste system. Eduardo, having been schooled in America and having achieved yuppiedom, is facing the fact that he’s on the losing end of the stick now that he’s back in ol’ Méjico. Padre Bosco reminds him that Fernanda is, and forever will be, off limits for the likes of an indigenous upstart like him. Yes, Gonzo Elizalde, and those like him (though the padre heartily disagrees), would never accept a liason between their daughter and the son of a poor cook. (Ha! That means Augie and Dolly are going to have a major fecal fit when Err plays guess who’s coming to dinner with Fr/Eddie.) Better an absconded criminal with a lineage for Gonzo’s little girl than an indigenous cook’s kid.
Over at Vlad’s, Damian is giving Vlad final instructions on how to nail the interview with Vlad’s nemesis, Anibal Elizalde. Vlad is rankling at the very thought of having to meet with the guy. Dam reminds him that everything has its price and this is his for protecting Pris. So, when he goes for the interview Vlad must tell AB that for the past two years he’s been working for Prolasa, Pris’ family’s business and Grupo’s major rival. Naïve Vlad has to be clued in that Dam has purposely “enhanced” his resume with a supposed stint there as it’s the only way Any Balls will ever consider hiring him.
Nobody will bother to check this out, says Dam, because the Alvear’s and the Elizalde’s detest each other [odiar a muerte]. All Vlad has to do is say that he left Prolasa because he loathes Rolando Alvear. Vlad asks who Rolando Alvear is. “Well, if all goes well he’ll be your brother-in-law.” Dam advises him to make sure he gets in good with Florecita, too, the president’s receptionist. That will be key if their plan is going to succeed.
Meanwhile, Padre Bosco counsels Eduardo that it’s no use looking back. His rage, justified as it might be, will only paralyze him and Ed has a mission to complete. Still, Eddie asks Bosco if he knows if his mother might have hidden Fernanda’s letters somewhere, but the padre tells him that that part of his past life is now closed. Only when Eddie has accomplished his goal, he tells him, will he find the peace he deserves. Eddie suffers a sudden, shocking moment of self-doubt (through which, I might add, the whole of female Viewerville would love to console him). With a crack in his voice Ed admits he feels terribly alone. Bosco tries to reassure him. He tells Eduardo that he does not agree with this false identity business and wants no part of it, but with everything that’s happened the two of them do need one another, even though it’s best they avoid seeing one another again. However, Bosco adds, he is very aware that the enemy they have to defeat is powerful, so if Eddie needs him he should come get him.
Lucio, meanwhile, is thrown into a jail cell and finds out the hard way that BOW has double-crossed him. One of the policemen tells him that she has brought charges against him “for theft and several other crimes.” Lucio, it seems, is out of options.
Padre Bosco asks Jacinto and Margarita to go back to Sole's house with him. Since he already reported the crime he now wants to see what’s going to happen with the dead man's body. Eddie agrees.
In town at Mud Wrasslers Cantina, Jairo has apparently been on an all night bender [empinando el codo= propping up the bar, bending an elbow]. The bar girls razz him about it so he heads outside and gets buttonholed by two guys in Roto-Rooter uniforms (what supposedly passes for certain cops’ uniforms in Mexico). It’s Aremtio Bravo’s men, Carpio and Nestor, in disguise. They force him into their truck and demand to know what Manzanares found out about Franco Santoro when the guy searched his house.
Cinto, Margarita and Padre Bosco finally arrive at Sole’s old house just as the really real police are driving up. Bosco tells the two to let him handle things and then proceeds to tell a little white lie to the cops. He tells the detective that he got an anonymous phone call from a parishioner saying there was a dead man there. Cinto and Margo, he adds, simply offered to walk with him to the house. (At least this priest knows when to tell a decent fib in the battle between Good and Eeevil.) Everyone heads over to the grave but they find that it’s completely empty. Manzanares’ body is gone! Wide-eyed impactado all ‘round.
Jairo denies to Artemio Bravo’s strong-arming tag-team that he knows anything and he insists that Manzanares told him he hadn’t found anything there. Neither one believes him so Nestor chokes Jairo to make the point while Viewerville cheers at the local bully in chief getting a taste of his own medicine. Bravo’s heavies want answers! Carpio gives Jairo 12 hours to get the information they want and then throws him out of the truck.
Bosco tells the detectives that he figures the person who called must have been nutty. Margo whispers to Cinto meanwhile, that she’s worried whoever took the body will be coming after Denia, too. Cinto reminds her that Tomasa said Lucio had split already. Margo says, sure, but Jairo Roca is involved and he’s capable of anything. Cinto tries to comfort her and promises to turn the tables on Roca before he ever has a chance to try anything with Denia.
Back at Las Animas, Eddie questions Denia as to whether either Jairo or Lucio really didn’t know about his true identity. Denia doesn’t think either one knew anything. She admits to Eddie that she feels guilty about nearly spilling the frijoles to Lucio [despepitar = literally “to spit out seeds” ] but she was terrified that he was going to kill her.
In town, Berguer hands over the necklace to Bitch-Barbie who is now very pleased with herself at the smooth way she got rid of that louse, Lucio. She gets ready to drive off but has to take another call from Artemio Bravo first. He informs her that Manzanares' body has been taken care of, then orders her to find a way to get into Fr/Eduardo's place to find some clue about whatever it was the man found out about Santoro. The Barbinator starts planning her next move.
Vlad shows up at Grupo Lactos for his interview. He flirts a bit with Flor who is apparently taken with Vlad’s good looks. (Vlad may not be leading man material, but he ain’t exactly shabby in the shagging department, either.) Even though there is no appointment written down in the book for him, flustered Flo’ decides there must be a mistake and manages to get AB to see him. (Chalk one up for the Vladster.)
Across the hall, Fernanda and Gonzo discuss the visit she and Santoro made to the old warehouse and her suggestion about putting in little artisan studios. He asks what Fr/Ed thought about the site. Fer stops to remember Fr/Ed’s hunkalicious smile and the way his stare made her (and any of us females with blood still running in our veins) tingle. She tells her daddy that he loved it and is ready to begin construction. She adds she feels it could be a way to get past all the damage that Dam had done to the family. Gonzo decides to tell her about Babs' doubts and says that he is considering cancelling the entire negotiation with Franco Santoro. Babs has always had such a sharp business sense that now he’s having second thoughts. Fer is fit-to-be-tied impactada.
Back at Las Animas again, Eddie tells Denia he doesn’t fault her for anything because he knows her life was at risk. (¡Qué considerado!) He asks if by any chance she happened to overhear who might have sent Manzanares to dig up something on him. Denia says no, but after a minute to consider, says she thinks it had to be Cadmilo Elizalde. Just then Jacinto shows up at the door to tell Ed that Manzanares’ body is missing from the grave. More looks de impactado.
Fer gets angry at Gonzo’s 2nd-guessing. After everything it has cost her in time and trouble to get this deal finalized, she argues, there is no reason to turn everything on its head for some silly notion of Babs’. Besides, she adds, Barbara has nothing solid to base it on and the company’s salvation depends upon this agreement going through. Gonzo counters and says he doesn’t know what has caused Babs to feel this way, but her 6th sense in business is always on target. The thoroughly pussy-whipped Gonzo insists that his wife’s opinion should be taken into account. Fer digs in her high-heels and says that as far as she’s concerned Franco Santoro inspires absolute trust in her; that her sixth sense is just as accurate and it tells her that she can trust Franco completely.
We beam back to Las Animas where Eddie now tells Cinto and Denia that whoever hired Manzanares is the same person that had his body carried off. (Do ya think?) Cinto agrees with Denia that perhaps it was Cadmilo Elizalde. Denia goes to open the front door then to let in Estev. Ed quickly whispers to Cinto that they cannot risk Denia’s safety any longer and says he’s going to take some drastic measures to prevent it.
Duckworth has picked up some of Eduardo’s personal things sent to him from Ed’s old apartment in the States. He also got a portable safe to store everything that might give away Eduardo's true identity in case anybody starts nosing around uninvited again. Estev adds that Jacinto had filled him in on what had been going on the last day or two around there. They’re going to have to think of a very good hidey-hole for it says Ed. He mentions to Dewey that they think Cad might be responsible for what’s going on, but even so, somebody else would have been directing him and he believes that person has to be their “mysterious enemy.”
At Grupo Lactos, Vlad lies to Any Balls about having worked at Prolasa and says things went badly there for him, so no, he won’t be getting any decent references from the place. Rolando Alvear didn’t exactly treat him fairly and Vlad left on bad terms. AB says that’s enough to convince him not to hire him, because if he dislikes the Alvear family so much, then why would Vlad be so anxious to take care of Prissy’s finances? Vlad says that Prissy was the only one who supported him there and so he feels obligated to return the favor. AB thinks to himself now that his air-head wife has picked a real loser to audit her money.
Anibal brags to Vlad that Grupo Lactos is a stronger competitor in the market than Prolasa. Vlad flatters AB by saying that’s pretty much why he wanted to come work for them, to learn from the best. This gets AB thinking that Vlad wouldn’t be such a threat to him and the company after all. He hires him on the spot. (Chalk another one up for the Vladster.)
Santiago and Aurora arrive back home. They see Pris on the stairs and Rory tells Pris that she has bought some yarn to knit a little jacket and booties for her baby. The nuns (of course) taught her how….. Pris gets very excited at the idea and asks Rory to teach her how to knit. (What gives with all the knitting references in these scenes? First Martina and Lili, now Rory and Pris? I guess Uni must have snagged a couple major yarn manufacturers to help underwrite this novela. Of course, I prefer to crochet, but what the hey.) Rory asks her what AB wants to name the baby. Pris says AB isn’t really interested in anything to do with the baby. Santi’s hungry so they go merrily off to the kitchen for a snack. FF>>
In Puebla Purificacion meanwhile, Dominga The Drunk is pouring the last of her remaining rot-gut when she gets a surprise phone call from Artemio Bravo. She is forced to admit to him that Rory has escaped from her. He is furious and orders Dominga to find her. Until she does, he says, don’t bother going to the telegraph office to pick up any more money-grams. Bummer for our besotted Dominga.
Fer now runs into Vlad in the reception area at Grupo Grand Central. She is surprised to find out he works there. He says he was working at Prolasa. Fer says she thought he worked for an insurance company and that Dam never told her he’d ever worked for Prolasa. (Ruh-roh!) Vlad stumbles a bit with his faux pas, but recovers quickly enough. He “explains” that the Alvear’s were his clients for a short time. She invites him into her office for coffee and a chat then whispers a question to him about whether he’s seen Damian lately. Vlad swallows hard and searches for a safe response. (We won’t hold our breath.)
At the same time Ursula is visiting Sonny Boy. Damn says he can’t call Fernanda because the cops would trace the call right back to him and put him in jail. She says that Fer really wants to speak with him and warns him that if she doesn’t hear from him soon she will divorce him. Damn stops to consider the implications.
Back at Grupo Lactos, Fer explains to Vlad that it was Any Balls who launched the media blitz against Dam and swears that neither she nor her daddy consented to it. She hopes he understands how important it is for her to speak with Damian and find out exactly what happened. She asks Vlad to let Dam know this if he happens to speak to him. He nervously agrees and then asks what exactly her job is there. Fer describes something that sounds like it’s Public Relations. She asks if he’s there to take Damian’s job. Vlad says no, he’s just there as an auditor.
Back at the apartment, Damn tells his mama that he is certain that Fer loves him (oh so wrong, Arrogant One) and will go back to him again once he proves his innocence. (If she does, it won’t be for love. That’s for darn sure.) Mama wants him to save their good name and even more, their current income level. She can’t stand the thought of anybody looking down on them. Dam says that the Elizalde's will find out what a serious mistake they’ve made and then they’ll be on their knees begging him to be forgiven. (I guess bad intentions don’t count here. The fact he was a louse who had actually intended to abscond with the $3 million which Babs cleverly bilked him out of is a minor detail and one easily forgotten.)
Once again at Grupo Lactos: Any Balls hands Prissy’s financial information over to Vlad and tells him not to bother Pris with anything. They will handle it all between the two of them, especially now that Pris is pregnant. Vlad plays dumb (not a reach for him, I admit) about the pregnancy. He agrees to keep her finances just between the two of them. Then Vlad dutifully listens while AB puts on airs and gives him a line about “nothing being more important to me than the welfare of my future child or my wife’s peace of mind.” Vlad, to his credit, manages to keep from spitting in the guy’s face.
Back at the hacienda, Babs finds Cad putting his horse through the paces. She confides to him that she doesn't trust Franco Santoro and needs his help with something. He admits that he doesn't trust the man either and explains that’s the reason he entered Santoro’s house the other day and searched it. How else, he brags, could he have known that the guy came there to find himself a rich woman to marry? Babs asks him to sneak in again.
Across the way at Las Animas: Estev says he has a plan to get Eddie back with Fer. He and Ed agree that she’s very different from her two brothers and would welcome anything that would allow her to reconcile with her “new friend.” That friend, of course, is Fr/Ed. Since she is very interested in the association between Powhere Meelk and Grupo Lactos, Dewey suggests that Eddie should “give her an opportunity” to straighten out whatever Cad is spoiling through all his meddling.
Babs tells Cad now that what she needs is for him to find out all the intimate details of Franco Santoro’s life: his past, his friendships, the women in his life, the places he has worked, absolutely everything. She warns him that not a single other soul is to be involved in this, either. Cad is definitely up for it.
Vlad meets Pris for lunch in the city. He has the files with him. Pris wants to know how the interview went, whether AB asked him any questions, and if he offered Vlad the job. Vlad says her hubby was very friendly and that he didn’t ask him a thing. He just gave him her files and had him start that very day. Pris shuts up to process.
Babs continues discussing her plan with Cad. This time, she says, he has got to be much more careful and avoid making a fool of himself in front of Jacinto or Gardenia. Cad says sure, sure, and cackles a bit about it being their “Mission Impossible.” Barbie allows herself a frown. Cad asks her what happens if something goes wrong. Babs tells him in that case, she will assume all the responsibility. (Yeah. R-i-i-i-ght. We’ve seen this broad in action before.) Cad chuckles conspiratorially. Babs, though, isn’t smiling.
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Awwww, Florecita is so cute and shy when there's a new man around! I hope she meets someone nice.
I had to laugh at Gonzo's claim that Babs has such a great sixth sense about business. Where does he think that sixth sense was when they lost all their money?
Anyway, when you average out her alleged sixth sense and his no sense, you only get like three senses which isn't enough to make good business decisions!
I had to laugh at Gonzo's claim that Babs has such a great sixth sense about business. Where does he think that sixth sense was when they lost all their money?
Anyway, when you average out her alleged sixth sense and his no sense, you only get like three senses which isn't enough to make good business decisions!
Jardinera, once again, thank you for the hilarious recap. I especially liked the image of Fernanda digging in her high heels!
Actually, it's amazing Fer is holding up as well as she is. There's hardly anyone she can trust, or who is on her side (as far as she knows), with the exception of Santiago. Her Dad is now sort of opposed to her, Babs is not helping, Anibal and Camilo aren't very concerned about her, Erika is now her rival, Damian left, Jacinto and Margarita have been evasive, and that darn Franco Santoro was just a little too forward with her (all this from her point of view). Ursula is hiding something, Vladimir is hiding something, I really don't see how she can maintain her composure as well as she does. Even Liliana isn't confiding in Fer. I really like her.
Actually, it's amazing Fer is holding up as well as she is. There's hardly anyone she can trust, or who is on her side (as far as she knows), with the exception of Santiago. Her Dad is now sort of opposed to her, Babs is not helping, Anibal and Camilo aren't very concerned about her, Erika is now her rival, Damian left, Jacinto and Margarita have been evasive, and that darn Franco Santoro was just a little too forward with her (all this from her point of view). Ursula is hiding something, Vladimir is hiding something, I really don't see how she can maintain her composure as well as she does. Even Liliana isn't confiding in Fer. I really like her.
Wow, again very well done Jardinera, though I think I'm starting to spot hints of sarcasm and cynicism in your work. I also felt a tinge of deja vu with one of your paragraphs(maybe my Alzheimer's). I love Vlad, I now have absolutely no doubt rhat he is one of the good, albeit dim,guys. I beamed with almost paternal pride, when he looked at Damian with shocked innocence and said,"Eso es una mentira, yo no digo mentiras." and I was equally gratified by D's look of disbelieving exasperation. Those guys are great together. A perfect matching of innocence and guile. Carlos
Jardinera, thanks for the clever and very funny recap.
Our boy Vlad is getting more involved in the action. Is he strong enough to carry the load?
Speaking of weak links, Barbi is drawing the two Elizalde brothers into her web and her plans. Last week she was flattering Anyballs, now it's Cadmilho. Maybe it's just her opportunity to take them down.
Dominga just cracks me up. She could be a bad example for Gardenia. As in, see what your future might be if you keep shooting off your mouth and keep loving not wisely but too well?
Fr/Ed's moment of self-doubt was quite poignant.
La Paloma
Our boy Vlad is getting more involved in the action. Is he strong enough to carry the load?
Speaking of weak links, Barbi is drawing the two Elizalde brothers into her web and her plans. Last week she was flattering Anyballs, now it's Cadmilho. Maybe it's just her opportunity to take them down.
Dominga just cracks me up. She could be a bad example for Gardenia. As in, see what your future might be if you keep shooting off your mouth and keep loving not wisely but too well?
Fr/Ed's moment of self-doubt was quite poignant.
La Paloma
Permalink posted by 
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 2:11:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 2:11:00 PM EDT
And the lovely Dominga hada great line and I swear she could not keep from smiling as she held up her bottte and wailed,"¡Ayy, pos ya se me acabo mi combustible!" If they keep feeding her lines like that, I say let her stick around. Carlos
Florecita does not do anything for me...
Id like to see Babs get rid of Camilo.
Ibarramedia
Id like to see Babs get rid of Camilo.
Ibarramedia
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 2:41:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 2:41:00 PM EDT
Hombre: All I can say is that the next time Fr/Ed makes an ill-timed pass a Fer, he better make sure she's not wearing those strappy spikes!
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La Paloma: Yup! Vlad is proving to be our sweet little idiot savant. I'm so glad to see he is not in league with The Dark Side after all, but only Damian's useful idiot. There is something sexy in his sincerity and he is definitely Any Balls' character foil in this thing. I wanted to hug the hell out of him when he kept his cool in AB's office during the interview, and later when he was so complimentary to Pris when they discussed him.
========
La Paloma: Yup! Vlad is proving to be our sweet little idiot savant. I'm so glad to see he is not in league with The Dark Side after all, but only Damian's useful idiot. There is something sexy in his sincerity and he is definitely Any Balls' character foil in this thing. I wanted to hug the hell out of him when he kept his cool in AB's office during the interview, and later when he was so complimentary to Pris when they discussed him.
Jardinera, I loved the recap and the comments are too funny as well. I am really enjoying this telenovela but I am laughing more than anything else when I watch it. It is more a comedy than a drama though they is a lot of suspense involved.
I was afraid Fr/Ed was going to give us one of those high pitched wails when he told Padre Bosco he was soo alone. Hey, hasn't he put poor Jacinto, Margarita, Gardenia, Martina Padre Bosco in danger risk. He's not receiving too much sympathy from me. GinCA
I was afraid Fr/Ed was going to give us one of those high pitched wails when he told Padre Bosco he was soo alone. Hey, hasn't he put poor Jacinto, Margarita, Gardenia, Martina Padre Bosco in danger risk. He's not receiving too much sympathy from me. GinCA
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 3:10:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 3:10:00 PM EDT
Wow, too many errors in my post. Sorry. GinCA
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 3:13:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 3:13:00 PM EDT
Carlos: Sarcasm and cynicism? Say it ain't so, Joe. Two sides of a response to the same ironic happenstance, I'd say. Sometimes I just throw things at my veritable easil to see what sticks --just for the Hell of it all. You do intrigue me once again, however. What stood out in particular? If you're referring to the discussion about the caste system in Mexico, it's a major theme of this telenovela per the synopsis if nothing else. I thought I was simply interpreting the discussion between Ed and the good padre. I never meant to sound judgmental in any way.
Oh, and docs never suffer from Alzheimer's. They just have unusually long and vacuous delays in response.
! 8 ? >
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GinCA: Please, Gawd, No! Not another wailing bout!
Oh, and docs never suffer from Alzheimer's. They just have unusually long and vacuous delays in response.
! 8 ? >
===========
GinCA: Please, Gawd, No! Not another wailing bout!
Jardinera, oh, now I feel awful. Sarcasm and cynicism, I meant that in only the nicest and complementary way. Perhaps snark and satire describe what I was referring to. I truly am sorry if you thought I was being critical. Of course we Drs.are so thick skinned that nothing ever hurts our feelings. As for the Alzheimer's, I would have sworn that I was reading the same paragraph twice, but when I looked back it was gone. Are you toying with this old quack's mind? Maybe I should check myself into ol' Doc O's place. Susanlynn once mistook me for Ciro, maybe I could have his old room. Carlos
Jardinera, I was however, serious in expressing my admiration for Vlad when he in all sincerity said," That is a lie (or should that be lay?). I don't tell lies."(a trait that would suit us all.) Carlos
Carlos, Carlos, Carlos...you are going to work that lie/lay forever, aren't you! Wretch.
Jardinera, thanks as always for a very readable, witty recap. I knew when I read Carlos' "hints of cynicism and sarcasm" he was giving you high praise indeed...as well he should.
And I too am falling in love with Vlad just because he IS such a beguiling" dim bulb." Somehow the hair brushed forward and de-greased has changed him from a slimy, extra-marital seducer into a charming pawn.
I truly worried about him when Damian jerked the tie knot loose and reknotted it....(surely the equivalent of a phone toss that harsh re-tie!) but he held up well, dazzled Florecita (not hard, admittedly) and weaseled his way in. Now if he can just melt Priscilla's heart of stone.
However, your mentioning his playing dumb as not being much of a stretch may have led, in part, to Carlos' sly praise.
Well done, amiga...always look forward to Saturday's roundup of the Friday episode...and to the cascade of comments I know will come. Much fun.
Jardinera, thanks as always for a very readable, witty recap. I knew when I read Carlos' "hints of cynicism and sarcasm" he was giving you high praise indeed...as well he should.
And I too am falling in love with Vlad just because he IS such a beguiling" dim bulb." Somehow the hair brushed forward and de-greased has changed him from a slimy, extra-marital seducer into a charming pawn.
I truly worried about him when Damian jerked the tie knot loose and reknotted it....(surely the equivalent of a phone toss that harsh re-tie!) but he held up well, dazzled Florecita (not hard, admittedly) and weaseled his way in. Now if he can just melt Priscilla's heart of stone.
However, your mentioning his playing dumb as not being much of a stretch may have led, in part, to Carlos' sly praise.
Well done, amiga...always look forward to Saturday's roundup of the Friday episode...and to the cascade of comments I know will come. Much fun.
Sorry, Judy, but as you know one must play the cards one is dealt. The writers of of this show are veey generous dealers. Carlos
Jardinera another witty recap, thanks.
Carlos, I too saw the double paragraph but only because of different fonts - so yes, she is playing with us. I knew what you were talking about!
rsk
Carlos, I too saw the double paragraph but only because of different fonts - so yes, she is playing with us. I knew what you were talking about!
rsk
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 4:47:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 4:47:00 PM EDT
Carlos: Eeeek!! No. No. No. I raced off due to a prior committment and realized I'd forgotten to add that you are neither delayed in your much appreciated responses, nor are they ever vacuous!! Why would they intrigue me so, otherwise? My apologies for rushing off in haste and appearing flip. As for the missing paragraph, you were correct! I was having problems with the blog's editing program and it screwed things up for me for a while.
Jardinera--Dios mio, I love your recaps. So clever, insightful, and thorough. Clearly you pone la alma into it. I especially liked the analysis of Eddie's pedigree and how despciable it would be for the Mexican Rockefellers to see their precious Nanda casada con el rif-raff.
I'm ready for Ed to change sweaters now, or at least lose the striped one.
Muchisimas gracias for your insight as well as your phenomenal humor.
Dona Gringuita
I'm ready for Ed to change sweaters now, or at least lose the striped one.
Muchisimas gracias for your insight as well as your phenomenal humor.
Dona Gringuita
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 5:14:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 5:14:00 PM EDT
JudyB: speaking of grammar, I got a kick out of those discussions. I only wish I'd had Susanlynn or Paula H as my English grammar teacher somewhere along the line. Who knew how simple transitive and intransitive verbs could be? I had to wince in between giggles when you mentioned how you say you have a habit of ending phrases with a preposition. Obviously I do to, and although I know it's a hideously unforgivable offense in formal writing, I refuse to do otherwise when recapping. I say God created the vernacular, aka, "substandard?" English, for a reason. For a minute or two I thought to try writing this recap using my prepositions correctly, just as a lark--but only for a minute or two.... I sound stilted enough as it is!!
p.s., I was feeling guilty for adding a critical aside at Eddie telling Denia he forgave her. That, at second glance, had me thinking unnecessarily "cynical" on my part and I don't really consider Ed as being the insincere type. Should have saved it for AB or something.....just a thought.
; ? )
p.s., I was feeling guilty for adding a critical aside at Eddie telling Denia he forgave her. That, at second glance, had me thinking unnecessarily "cynical" on my part and I don't really consider Ed as being the insincere type. Should have saved it for AB or something.....just a thought.
; ? )
Jardinera, think nothing of it. I chalked it up to a little more sarcasm and cynicism. Actually, vacuous is one of my more confidence inspiring expressions. Carlos
rsk - sorry for the foul-up with the posting. I have a problem trying to do second and third and fourth edits once I post. This time it bit me in the backside. Glad you figured it out.
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Doña g.: Welcome to my weekend round-up! "...how despciable it would be for the Mexican Rockefellers to see their precious Nanda casada con el rif-raff." Nifty take on the topic at hand.
=========
Doña g.: Welcome to my weekend round-up! "...how despciable it would be for the Mexican Rockefellers to see their precious Nanda casada con el rif-raff." Nifty take on the topic at hand.
Thank you Jardinera. Doing housework, taking a break, haven't finished recap but love "fecal fit"! Hee Hee. When Eddie was questioning Gardenia and she started looking thoughtful, I thought she was going to remember that phone number she wrote down way back in the first week of the show. . .but, I guess that's too far away and is one of those dropped details.
Still thinking Ciggie got Barbie preggie and ABoreA is the result.
And a Babs/Cad partnership. Just what I would expect. That jerk, his mouth looks like an a$$hole! Ugh!
Khalilah
Still thinking Ciggie got Barbie preggie and ABoreA is the result.
And a Babs/Cad partnership. Just what I would expect. That jerk, his mouth looks like an a$$hole! Ugh!
Khalilah
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 5:26:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 5:26:00 PM EDT
Jardinera, not to worry, I just thought it was a Saturday pop quiz on comprehension since yesterday's quiz was on grammar.
rsk
rsk
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 5:33:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 5:33:00 PM EDT
Jardinera654,
Great recap as usual.
Don't worry about ending sentences with a preposition.
Remember when Winston Churchill was being ragged for doing that he said " This is something up with which I will not put."
Great recap as usual.
Don't worry about ending sentences with a preposition.
Remember when Winston Churchill was being ragged for doing that he said " This is something up with which I will not put."
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 5:40:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 5:40:00 PM EDT
Thanks for the recap, Jardinera! Well done and nice snark.
Who else noticed that Fernanda was wearing yellow and white? She's done with the black mourning stuff. A new post-kiss etapa.
"This is something up with which I will not put." But ... that is Yoda-speak! Works it does for me.
Khalilah - ITA and I'll bet Babs thinks Aurora died at birth, doesn't know she's alive.
Who else noticed that Fernanda was wearing yellow and white? She's done with the black mourning stuff. A new post-kiss etapa.
"This is something up with which I will not put." But ... that is Yoda-speak! Works it does for me.
Khalilah - ITA and I'll bet Babs thinks Aurora died at birth, doesn't know she's alive.
Yah, Doris, doesn't that sound really probable in novelaland? Could finding out she's got a daughter actually touch her heart? Maybe Ciggie told Babs her parents did away with her baby and so she did away with them...or maybe he did and blamed her like she did to Lillie. . .hmmm.
Khalilah
Khalilah
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 6:27:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 6:27:00 PM EDT
Kahlilah,While Eddie was grilling(probably too harsh a word)her about the possibility of the baddies having discovered his secret, Gardenia's reply was cute, poignant, and sincerely regretful. She said, "Eduardo, cuando el infeliz de Lucio me tenia encañonada apunto de mandarme pal otro barrio, casilo suelto quién era en era realidad Franco Santoro." Although I'm working on it I'm not certain I can offer a translation to do her justice and I've sworn off (for the moment) on grammar. Carlos
And of course I botched the quote. "Eduardo, cuando el infeliz de Lucio me tenia encañonada a punto de mandarme pal otro barrio, casi lo suelto quién era en realidad Franco Santoro." Carlos struggling with technology
Kahlilah and Doris,I like it and ir certainly obeys TN rules. Now if Artie indeed is Gonzo's brother, it will take a little time to draw the family tree and will throw a wrench into at least one budding romance. Carlos, reeling from he revelations
Yo, Carlos. Lets see. . .ewwww, Artemio and Gonzo would both have done Babs and ABoreA, Gonzo's niece would be marrying Santi, her first cousin! (I know, I know,m not a problem in many cultures!)But it could fit in with my conviction that Santi and ABoreA will never marry, but I based that on ABoreA's mom being the one that dispatched Santi's mom to the other barrio. . .or wherever Rich people go. Nevermind. We went down that road last week!
Khalilah
Khalilah
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 7:36:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 7:36:00 PM EDT
Thanks, Jardinera , for that excellent and detailed recap. So now Vlad looks like a Beatle....not as goodlooking as my fav Paul ....with a little of my second fav Beatle Ringo thrown in. And I'm sure that the tune in his head is ''She loves me...yeah...yeah...yeah..'' [No, she doesn't, but if you can expose Any's theft and restore her cash,,,she just might.] I've also wondered if Art is Aurora's dad , and if he took the baby away from Babs or told her that she died. There has to be a reason Babs hates Art so much [besides his poor taste in art.] I think we need some love scenes between Fr'ed and Fern...well, speaking for myself...I need some loving between Fr'ed and Fern. Those lips are just going to waste...que lastima.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 7:43:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 7:43:00 PM EDT
A high class bankrupt family would not want their lovely daughter to have anything to do with a wealthy, educated son of a servant. Monserrat, Camilo & Anibal maybe, however Anibal still wants the $3mil.
You want to talk about wigs, Vlad's is the worse, I've gotten used to Santiago's.
A safe that fits in a box? Well maybe they can't open it but they can take it & run over it later with a car. Dios mio, they take ATM's.
I'd like to see anyone get rid of Camilo, but I guess he's necessary for more misdeads.
Padre Bosco can lie to the police, help fake someones death, but he can't reveal the confessions of someone that is now dead even though it's a matter of life or death to others???????? Yo sé, yo sé.
Forget the beanie, I need a tight fitting sombrero.
Great recap, I missed a lot of small points.
You want to talk about wigs, Vlad's is the worse, I've gotten used to Santiago's.
A safe that fits in a box? Well maybe they can't open it but they can take it & run over it later with a car. Dios mio, they take ATM's.
I'd like to see anyone get rid of Camilo, but I guess he's necessary for more misdeads.
Padre Bosco can lie to the police, help fake someones death, but he can't reveal the confessions of someone that is now dead even though it's a matter of life or death to others???????? Yo sé, yo sé.
Forget the beanie, I need a tight fitting sombrero.
Great recap, I missed a lot of small points.
Jardinera, great recap as always. I wonder if Padre Bosco will become Tadeo like..... Looks like we are seeing more and more of him. Even if Flor was not goofy, I can't see her as uber sexy. Just my humble opinion. Fernanda and Babs on the other hand can melt ice cubes... Sizzling. Gardenia too. Those are my top 3 in this novela.
How many of you prefer Fernanda over Sofia from Fels? Just curious...
I remember from past discussions that Sortilegio is supposed to replace MEPS once its run is over. Well here is a sneak preview. I think you all said it is a Carla Estrada project. It is not a period one though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB7sEIVL09o
Ibarramedia
How many of you prefer Fernanda over Sofia from Fels? Just curious...
I remember from past discussions that Sortilegio is supposed to replace MEPS once its run is over. Well here is a sneak preview. I think you all said it is a Carla Estrada project. It is not a period one though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB7sEIVL09o
Ibarramedia
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 7:58:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 7:58:00 PM EDT
Ibarramedia - The trailer looks good. Manzanares lives!! LOL
MEPS has gotten me hooked on these novelas and am already looking fowrard to the next one. LOL
~Caborita
MEPS has gotten me hooked on these novelas and am already looking fowrard to the next one. LOL
~Caborita
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 8:09:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 8:09:00 PM EDT
Looks like Manzanares is in everything. Recognized Victoria, the really bad person in Alborado & of course Wm Levy, Pasión & Cuidado.
Thanks for the recap Jardinera. Now you see, what happens is that Cad sneaks into Las Animas to spy on Ed and then Art's two goons break in, find Cad, think he's Franco and beat the crap out of him! Hey, one can dream!! LOL
I don't think there are any plans to make Flor uber sexy. Yes, she has a cuteness going. Not quite sure why Vlad would have to get in good with her. I would think all he would have to do is come in look mean and bluster and get anything from her that way. But, I guess the other way is to be nice to her. She gets flustered if you act either way, giving here a big Ed (or Vlad) smile or else coming in and dominating her.
JeffMN
I don't think there are any plans to make Flor uber sexy. Yes, she has a cuteness going. Not quite sure why Vlad would have to get in good with her. I would think all he would have to do is come in look mean and bluster and get anything from her that way. But, I guess the other way is to be nice to her. She gets flustered if you act either way, giving here a big Ed (or Vlad) smile or else coming in and dominating her.
JeffMN
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 8:52:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 8:52:00 PM EDT
Caborita, if MEPS is getting you hooked on novelas, both Tontas and Cuidado are finishing. Both might be in Ultimo Capitulos. So, a couple of new ones will be starting up in about another month or so. You can start in on those at the beginning and spend all evening watching TNs. :)
Sortilegio looks interesting, be awhile before it is on though. It has Candy (Tontas) in it. Saw Minnie from Destilando, Ascanio from Pasion, Isidro from Mariana de la Noche.
JeffMN
Sortilegio looks interesting, be awhile before it is on though. It has Candy (Tontas) in it. Saw Minnie from Destilando, Ascanio from Pasion, Isidro from Mariana de la Noche.
JeffMN
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 8:59:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 8:59:00 PM EDT
Thanks JeffMN. I can just see myself spending evenings watching novelas, mornings reading recaps and afternoon waiting for the evening.
~Caborita
~Caborita
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 9:08:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 9:08:00 PM EDT
Oooh, Ascanio from Pasion? Yum.
I liked Vlad's hair better before his little makeover.
Few grammar books and style guides prohibit ending a sentence with a preposition, though many people still believe that it's a legitimate rule. It isn't true. The "preposition" may be functioning as an adverbial particle, which is quite legal even at the end of the sentence. It does not require an object.
I liked Vlad's hair better before his little makeover.
Few grammar books and style guides prohibit ending a sentence with a preposition, though many people still believe that it's a legitimate rule. It isn't true. The "preposition" may be functioning as an adverbial particle, which is quite legal even at the end of the sentence. It does not require an object.
I believe Sortilegio is scheduled for right after MEPS is finished. It will start about 3 months sooner in Mexico.
You guys are great tonight, some really clever stuff. Looks like we may be in for some icky stuff. The phone is certainly a useful prop. I loved the way Dominga was handling and tallking to her phone as though it were a living organism. Now onto grammar. Perhaps my favorite transgressions against the English language is ...somebody stop me here...( sorry Judy, sorry Susanlynn, sorry Paula) danglng my participles. Carlos hanging his head in shame
Holy Moly, Julie! I've never even heard of an adverbial particle. Had to look it up here:
http://www.odlt.org/
Google AND Gates have got to be the 8th and 9th wonders of the world.
http://www.odlt.org/
Google AND Gates have got to be the 8th and 9th wonders of the world.
thank you 4 the recap.... i understand what is being said to a degree but when i read the recap it becomes very clear..... reading the comments from the last couple of days....has made me a little unsure about making any comments....i know i failed english in high school...and i do not want you to tear me apart..... all and all it is still a great place to be.
I think that denia will be locked away someplace in order to keep her safe u know she will be the next to get picked up by AB's guys.... and do u think they are wearing wigs...their hair looks really natural to me...maybe esteve's is ...Denia may have extentions and Fernanda too.... but the others hair appears to be real.....(my observations).....my thoughts on AB being Barbies dad....No....what if he had an affair with monserrat, (the mom) and loved her so much that he wanted all the other Elizalde's dead in order to punish his brother, Gonzo....he is his 1/2 brother.....possible.....I still think he may of fathered Fr/Ed with Soledad and is pissed at Gonzo
for keeping her down as a cook....
we will see............
I think that denia will be locked away someplace in order to keep her safe u know she will be the next to get picked up by AB's guys.... and do u think they are wearing wigs...their hair looks really natural to me...maybe esteve's is ...Denia may have extentions and Fernanda too.... but the others hair appears to be real.....(my observations).....my thoughts on AB being Barbies dad....No....what if he had an affair with monserrat, (the mom) and loved her so much that he wanted all the other Elizalde's dead in order to punish his brother, Gonzo....he is his 1/2 brother.....possible.....I still think he may of fathered Fr/Ed with Soledad and is pissed at Gonzo
for keeping her down as a cook....
we will see............
Permalink posted by : Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 11:46:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, May 23, 2009 at 11:46:00 PM EDT
Carlos: They always told me growing up (note the adverbial particle there) that those who were great in the sciences were generally lousy at spelling and writing skills.....Yes, yes, I know that many here prove to be the exception to that silly rule. Jus' sayin'-- It was meant to console those like me who always sucked at math and chemistry. It was small comfort as I recall. Still is.
Off-Topic
I saw Sin Nombre today at a mainstream theatre here in US.
I highly recommend watching it for all Americans.
It's the story of a family trying to get from Honduras to the US by walking, begging, and riding the rails. This plot is then super-imposed with a plot involving the brutality of Mexican street gangs.
It is shocking and brings home how good we have it here and bad life is in many other parts of the world. It is kind of a "Slumdog Millionaire", but no millionaire and none of the good parts of SD M.
It is quite violent, so if anyone has problems with violence... use your own judgment about whether to go.
________________
Seeing an example of a Latino film such as this being shown in American Main-stream theatres (Spanish audio, English subtitles) raises the question of how it can continue to be justified to show the simplistic pablum of soap operas all day and all night on latino television.
Certainly this last week of MEPS doesn't go much further in artistic merit than the old cereals done in Hollywood in the 1930's - and then, in contrast, a latino production puts out such an outstanding movie as Sin Nombre.
The Silverfox....
I saw Sin Nombre today at a mainstream theatre here in US.
I highly recommend watching it for all Americans.
It's the story of a family trying to get from Honduras to the US by walking, begging, and riding the rails. This plot is then super-imposed with a plot involving the brutality of Mexican street gangs.
It is shocking and brings home how good we have it here and bad life is in many other parts of the world. It is kind of a "Slumdog Millionaire", but no millionaire and none of the good parts of SD M.
It is quite violent, so if anyone has problems with violence... use your own judgment about whether to go.
________________
Seeing an example of a Latino film such as this being shown in American Main-stream theatres (Spanish audio, English subtitles) raises the question of how it can continue to be justified to show the simplistic pablum of soap operas all day and all night on latino television.
Certainly this last week of MEPS doesn't go much further in artistic merit than the old cereals done in Hollywood in the 1930's - and then, in contrast, a latino production puts out such an outstanding movie as Sin Nombre.
The Silverfox....
Anon. 11:46 pm - Welcome! Jump in. The water's fine. Don't worry about the rest of it. No need to feel intimidated. As long as you can be understood, we can communicate, ¿verdad? You've made some excellent and valid observations. Don't be a stranger.
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Variopinta: a tight-fitting sombrero? Now that gives a great visual.... LOL!
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Khalilah: "Still thinking Ciggie got Barbie preggie and ABoreA is the result." Me, too.
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Alice O/doris: I wouldn't quibble with either Churchill or Yoda! They were both masters. Check out this below for an eye-opener regarding the finer points of Yoda's sentence structure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_Subject_Verb
============
JeffMN: I think yours is as good a scenario as any. Cad needs to have the snot in his snotty 'tude kicked the hell out of him by somebody...anybody.
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Variopinta: a tight-fitting sombrero? Now that gives a great visual.... LOL!
========
Khalilah: "Still thinking Ciggie got Barbie preggie and ABoreA is the result." Me, too.
========
Alice O/doris: I wouldn't quibble with either Churchill or Yoda! They were both masters. Check out this below for an eye-opener regarding the finer points of Yoda's sentence structure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_Subject_Verb
============
JeffMN: I think yours is as good a scenario as any. Cad needs to have the snot in his snotty 'tude kicked the hell out of him by somebody...anybody.
Silverfox: I'd love to see the film. I understand that Mexico's southern border is just a porous as ours, but the Mexican government and its citizenry are not as "lenient" about it.
Jardinera~~~ESL students have a lot of trouble with verb and preposition combinations [ referred to in ESL instruction as two word verbs] . The preposition gives the verb a special meaning [ex. fill in, fill out, fill up, throw away, put away, put out, believe in ,pick up, laugh with, laugh at etc.] English has loads of these verb/preposition combinations. I had a Russian student who worked at Wendy's and got in trouble because he got mixed up [hey, ''mix up'' is another two word verb!!] between ''throw away'' and ''put away''. He threw away something he was told to put away and put away something that he was told to throw away. Also, I have a question~~~ When using infinitives, my Spanishspeaking students often use ''for'' plus the verb instead of ''to'' plus the verb . [Ex. I like to swim.] Anybody have an idea why they get confudsed about this form ??? How do you form the infinitive in Spanish ????
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 1:25:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 1:25:00 AM EDT
Anon, hey, I say welcome. I believe that all opinions offered here are valid until the writers of the show deem otherwise. They after all are the final arbiters(much the pity). I have several unconventinal theories adanglin' nakedly out there. Por ejemplo, I contend that Soledad is Lil's real mom. Now if as some think, that Artie and Gonzo are twins, then I hit the filial jackpot. Eddie and Lil are full (genetically speaking)brother and sister. I'm giddy at the prospect. As for the real hair/wig matter,N a similar vein, I'm confident that Lil's bubis are original issue.Every one here is loving, even protective and nurturing unless you wiolate the prime directive and let drop a deadly SPOILER,then may heaven help you. Carlos
Yippee! Sortilegio (whatever that means) with Marcelo Cordoba, who played Ascanio from Pasion, I can hardly wait and I hope he has a big role as a romantic lead. GinCA
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 2:17:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 2:17:00 AM EDT
Carlos, you just better not tanga her assets!
Jardinera, what you really should wish is that you had F. Fahrenbach for your grammar teacher. It's been 35 years since he was my English teacher. I can't tell you how many times I've blessed his name because the grammar he drummed into our heads has served me well in countless situations. He was flakey, claro que sí, but boy howdy, did we learn!
Anon, don't worry about your grammar. We don't pick on each other. Most of our grammar chatter is due to trying to decipher Spanish.
Is an adverbial particle the same as a phrasal verbs? The phrasal verbs are what Susanlynn referred to as two-word verbs: sit down, hold on, give up, etc. The second word seems like a preposition, but it's not. There's no object of the prep. In most cases, when someone is trying to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition, the culprit is a phrasal verb, not a preposition. Susanlynn is right, they are the nemisis of English learners.
But my weakness is starting sentences with conjunctions. And I know it's not illegal. But it's not desirable. Nor does it read well. Yet I continue to do it.
Jardinera, what you really should wish is that you had F. Fahrenbach for your grammar teacher. It's been 35 years since he was my English teacher. I can't tell you how many times I've blessed his name because the grammar he drummed into our heads has served me well in countless situations. He was flakey, claro que sí, but boy howdy, did we learn!
Anon, don't worry about your grammar. We don't pick on each other. Most of our grammar chatter is due to trying to decipher Spanish.
Is an adverbial particle the same as a phrasal verbs? The phrasal verbs are what Susanlynn referred to as two-word verbs: sit down, hold on, give up, etc. The second word seems like a preposition, but it's not. There's no object of the prep. In most cases, when someone is trying to avoid ending a sentence with a preposition, the culprit is a phrasal verb, not a preposition. Susanlynn is right, they are the nemisis of English learners.
But my weakness is starting sentences with conjunctions. And I know it's not illegal. But it's not desirable. Nor does it read well. Yet I continue to do it.
PaulaH/Susanlynn: Ruh-roh! Now I'm going to be proof-reading my stuff till the cows come in...back...er...home!
Paula/Susanlynn/Julie: Okiedok. I went back to the ODLT dictionary
http://www.odlt.org/ballast/adverbial_particle.html
"phrasal verb" and "adverbial particle"
I'm skating on thin ice here and putting my limited and very distant experience with grammatical structures on display. So.....the particle is the preposition that is the part of the phrasal verb that makes it phrasal I assume and which modifies that two-word verb. --From the very minimal formal Spanish grammar I've studied, Spanish seems to have its own version of the same thing since many of their verbs' meanings change depending upon the use of "de", "a" or "con" after each. Then again, maybe not. Anyway, although it is fascinating, I think my eyes are beginning to cross from all of this scholarly minutia. It's like I've uncovered a hidden box of chocolates and eaten a few too many. >; ? }
http://www.odlt.org/ballast/adverbial_particle.html
"phrasal verb" and "adverbial particle"
I'm skating on thin ice here and putting my limited and very distant experience with grammatical structures on display. So.....the particle is the preposition that is the part of the phrasal verb that makes it phrasal I assume and which modifies that two-word verb. --From the very minimal formal Spanish grammar I've studied, Spanish seems to have its own version of the same thing since many of their verbs' meanings change depending upon the use of "de", "a" or "con" after each. Then again, maybe not. Anyway, although it is fascinating, I think my eyes are beginning to cross from all of this scholarly minutia. It's like I've uncovered a hidden box of chocolates and eaten a few too many. >; ? }
Paula, I had my very own Mr. Fahrenbach. She was a tall, thin, austere solteron of indeterminate age. Agnes Anne McKinley. She wore a red wig that Raquel of FELS would have worn proudly. It was rumored that she sported a wooden leg. For 3 consecutive years she taught me English. Same classroom, 2nd period, same students, even the same desk. Mitzi H sat right in front of me(a truly magnificent view). Timothy O(my impossible love) sat right to my left. It was heaven on earth. Miss McK's lovelife consisted of cavorting with the greats of English and American literature with the occasinal dalliance with a French author to spice it up. For 6 weeks each year drilled us in grammar, sort of a protracted hellweek. The rest of the year we reveled in literature and endless compostion. It was the only class she taught each year. The rest of the time she was girl's counselor. She hated exclamation marks and as Damian was typing that Email to Babs, Iremembered and chuckled to myself. Miss McK would be apoplectic!!!!!!! Carlos
Susanlynn: Of course, the infinitive in Spanish is easy, it's just one word, such as
comer=to eat
nadar=to swim
I like to swim would be me gusta nadar.
Maybe since your students aren't used to having the extra word "to", they're thinking something like "I want for us to swim" sort of overthinking it. Hopefully, once you tell them that all our infinitives use the word "to", they'll get it straight. Of course, we also say "I like swimming", which in Spanish would STILL be me gusta nadar, so you may have some more explaining to do.
comer=to eat
nadar=to swim
I like to swim would be me gusta nadar.
Maybe since your students aren't used to having the extra word "to", they're thinking something like "I want for us to swim" sort of overthinking it. Hopefully, once you tell them that all our infinitives use the word "to", they'll get it straight. Of course, we also say "I like swimming", which in Spanish would STILL be me gusta nadar, so you may have some more explaining to do.
ayy, solterona not solteron. My communication device is convenient and useful, but makes proofreading virtually impossible. Carlos
Susanlynn: Other Topic - Did I see in one of your posts that you "hulu"? If so, I just discovered it a couple of weeks ago and love it for the older classic B&W flicks. I only wish it had a section for Spanish films and such.
AYYYY---I'm supposed to be cleaning and doing the dishes while Hub plants some hens and chicks by the rhodie next to the patio, but I made the mistake of dropping in here to read any new comments. Gee... You folks are a bad influence on my addictive personality. Anyhoo, after reading about the grammar teachers who inflenced our Carlos and Paula so much , I had to give a shout out to Miss Grace Moore . Miss Moore taught me literature, grammar, French, and Latin in my small rural high school . [I had 88 in my graduating class, and most of us had been together since first grade. Therefore, dating was almost incestuous . ] Miss Moore was the stereotypical old maid . She was tiny and plain with dark, curly hair and wirerimmed glasses. She wore matronly dresses, and I can still see her grinning and standing with her hands gripped at her waist after smoothing on hand lotion. The boys in my class were always making fun of her . [Kippy, Larry, Bobby, Lee...I am talking about you guys. ] Once, Freddy B. went inside her coat closet at the front of the room and knocked on the wall. Miss Moore went to the classroom door to see who was there. This went on for quite awhile before she discovered a grinning , snickering Freddy inside her closet. My teen beaus found it very amusing when they discovered that she occasionally dated the timid librarian whom they referred to as The Possum because , in reality, he did look exactly like a possum in a suit and bowtie. If I ever write a children's book , I plan on featuring Mr. W. and Miss Moore [perhaps I'll portray her as a little field mouse or a fussy robin] . At any rate, Miss Moore taught French the way she taught Latin, so we didn't do much speaking and listening. We mostly learned little poems and songs. [I can still sing ''Sur la Pont d'Avignon'' and ''Adeste Fidelis.'' After having a bad accident when I was 16, I realized that in her quiet way , Miss Moore thought of me as the daughter she never had. She always read my sacchrine poems outloud to the class and picked me for the main parts in plays. [I remember being Emily in ''Our Town.'' At 16, I didn't really get that play, but when I read it with my own 16-year-old daughter , I cried and cried...partly for the angst of the play and partly for Miss Moore. Thank goodness ,I sent her a thank you note after I graduated. She died a few months later. Miss Moore, gentle soul and master grammarian . I think of her often when I am standing in front of a class teaching grammar. Merci, Miss Moore. I thiank you, Carlos and Paula for starting me on a walk down Memory Lane .
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 2:11:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 2:11:00 PM EDT
Jardinera~~~I mentionned ''hulu'' as a place to watch the old Highlander the tv Series. I haven't checked it out in awhile. I read somewhere that this site may be in danger. I guess people hate to see viewers getting something free.
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 2:14:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 2:14:00 PM EDT
Hombe~~~Thanks. That's what I suspected. Robar= to steal . And, besides struggling with infinitives [to+verb], my students must also learn gerunds [verb +ing]. Infinitives and gerunds are noun forms used any place you can use a noun ...subject, object, or object of a preposition. Students get crazy about a verb turning into a noun. If Spanish has only one way of turning a verb into a noun , I can see why they get gerunds and infinitives confused. In addition, some verbs use both gerunds and infinitives [I like to swim. I like swimming]. Some use only infinitives .[I want to swim.] Some use only gerunds . [I enjoy swimming.]
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 2:21:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 2:21:00 PM EDT
I've noticed that my Spanishspeaking students often say ''for'' instead of ''to'' when trying to use the infinitive.
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 3:13:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 3:13:00 PM EDT
Loved those stories Susanlynn and Carlos. You did both your teachers proud with your memoirs. I'll remember those stories. Thanks.
I regularly proofread the English writing of two native Spanish speaking co-workers. One thing they both do is use the infinitive instead of the gerund. It's not exactly wrong, but it sounds sort of stilted, "foreign" English. Example: Included in our proposal will be to clean, to grout, to clear away all debris. At least to me it sounds better to say: Included in our proposal will be cleaning, grouting and clearing away all debris.
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 4:13:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 4:13:00 PM EDT
We saw a picture of Eduardo's father in Soledad's house. Un hombre muy guapo, but of course he was, he was Ed's papá. I believe he died when Ed was about 7. I guess it's possible his dad isn't really dead but that seems to be stretching it even for novelaland.
Anon 4:13
When in doubt hablando español, they say to use the infinitive, it will be understood. That is really the point, being understood, but wouldn't it be nice not to sound like a gringo?
When in doubt hablando español, they say to use the infinitive, it will be understood. That is really the point, being understood, but wouldn't it be nice not to sound like a gringo?
Silver fox – We don’t want our soaps & telenovelas to resemble life too much. For me, it is escape from reality. I can get gritty realism with the nightly news. Maybe Latinos feel the same way.
Jardinera – thanks for the OSV link. When I took 2 quarters of German, ten years ago, I thought the sentence structure was similar. Most English speakers struggle with German sentence composition.
susanlynn “I've noticed that my Spanishspeaking students often say ''for'' instead of ''to'' when trying to use the infinitive. I’m only in the Adult Ed ESL class one day a week, but I don’t notice our Spanish speakers doing this. Perhaps the difference is in curriculum & materials? I don't know...
Jardinera – thanks for the OSV link. When I took 2 quarters of German, ten years ago, I thought the sentence structure was similar. Most English speakers struggle with German sentence composition.
susanlynn “I've noticed that my Spanishspeaking students often say ''for'' instead of ''to'' when trying to use the infinitive. I’m only in the Adult Ed ESL class one day a week, but I don’t notice our Spanish speakers doing this. Perhaps the difference is in curriculum & materials? I don't know...
ibarramedia - as woman, I definitely like Fernanda better than Sofia. she's a much better heroine and she cries much better and more believably than Sofia as well. so far, besides remaining in love with her childhood best friend for 15 years despite the fact that he never contacted her, she hasn't done anything really stupid. in fact, of the five who have been carrying these 15 years (Fer, Fr/Ed, Denia, Err and Santi), she's the only one who had actually made an attempt to give it up and get on with her life by marrying Damian.
on the hair issue, I think Vlad's is his own and it looks like they let Santiago take off the early curly wig - the current locks look real to me. makes me wonder why they ever put the phony-tail cap on him in the first place.
on the hair issue, I think Vlad's is his own and it looks like they let Santiago take off the early curly wig - the current locks look real to me. makes me wonder why they ever put the phony-tail cap on him in the first place.
Oops, sorry, I meant to answer the question yesterday about Sofia vs. Fernanda. For me, there's no contest. It's Fernanda, hands-down. Except for a few welcome bursts of insight and independence, Sofia tended to make the same kinds of mistakes again and again, and letting people manipulate her who had already proven to be very dangerous. That's a surefire way to annoy me!
It's great to be loyal and want to help, but hurrying through the Rape Forest to "help" someone when you don't have a plan, a clue, or any aptitude for combat tends to make things worse, not better.
Fernanda does not strike me as the sort of woman who would walk alone through the Rape Forest. Maybe she'd do it once, in an emergency, but I bet she'd take a big stick with her. And after that she'd try to fund a lighted, paved walkway. ;-)
It's great to be loyal and want to help, but hurrying through the Rape Forest to "help" someone when you don't have a plan, a clue, or any aptitude for combat tends to make things worse, not better.
Fernanda does not strike me as the sort of woman who would walk alone through the Rape Forest. Maybe she'd do it once, in an emergency, but I bet she'd take a big stick with her. And after that she'd try to fund a lighted, paved walkway. ;-)
Paula, I have that "starting sentences with conjunctions" compulsion too. I have to make a conscious effort not to do it!
Thanks for that link to the ODLT, Jardinera. It also explains "postposition," which I suppose is the real source of contention when it comes to ending sentences with prepositions, i.e. "That's what I was talking about" where "about" is a "postposition," i.e. a preposition that comes after its object ("what").
I wonder if a person who finds pospositions objectionable at the end of a sentence also finds them objectionable when they show up earlier in the sentence (i.e. "that's what I was talking about yesterday").
That's as obscure and trivial as I can stand to get when it comes to grammar. I would much rather eat the hidden box of chocolates.
Thanks for that link to the ODLT, Jardinera. It also explains "postposition," which I suppose is the real source of contention when it comes to ending sentences with prepositions, i.e. "That's what I was talking about" where "about" is a "postposition," i.e. a preposition that comes after its object ("what").
I wonder if a person who finds pospositions objectionable at the end of a sentence also finds them objectionable when they show up earlier in the sentence (i.e. "that's what I was talking about yesterday").
That's as obscure and trivial as I can stand to get when it comes to grammar. I would much rather eat the hidden box of chocolates.
I think I agree with Renee about Vlad's and Santi's hair. Vlad's looks real to me - he's just combing it different now. And Santi's looked like a ratty wig before but now it looks like it's growing out of his head.
As to why Santi was wearing a wig before, he was probably wrapping up another telenovela (Tontas, maybe?) when he started doing MEPS and needed to keep his original hairstyle for a while (or needed time to grow it out to where it is now). That was the explanation for the horrible wig Susana Gonzales wore at the beginning of Pasión, anyway...
As to why Santi was wearing a wig before, he was probably wrapping up another telenovela (Tontas, maybe?) when he started doing MEPS and needed to keep his original hairstyle for a while (or needed time to grow it out to where it is now). That was the explanation for the horrible wig Susana Gonzales wore at the beginning of Pasión, anyway...
I suppose there must be some who prefer "silly" women like Sofia, but I prefer Fernanda's smarts and practicality. (I also appreciated Gaviota's.) Sure she has to show a little righteous indignation but she seems to know when it's misplaced and when it's not. The telenovela gods may prove me wrong, though.
Concerning two word verbs, they are usually informal , and there is often a more formal verb that can be used. For example, instead of saying ''talk about'' , you could say ''discuss'' . Likewise, ''put out'' = ''extinguish'', ''laugh at = ''ridicule'' ''throw away''= ''discard''. There are so many two word [and three word] verbs in English that they can't be memorized in the same way that students can memorize irregular verbs or irregular plurals. They just have to be exposed to them through lots of reading and speaking. Doris~~~What level adult ESL are you teaching ? I usually teach intermediate and advanced students. These students have to produce longer essays with more complicated forms. Maybe that's the reason I've noticed them struggling with infinitives and gerunds. And then, in English, we also use present participles as adjectives [the laughing girl] and past participles as adjectives [the broken glass]. It's a lot to learn. Paula~~~I agree with you about stareting sentences with conjunctions . Conjunctions are supposed to join things. However, I've noticed grammar standards declining over the years. Remember diagrammimg ? Well, some English teachers are trying to bring it back. My daughter teaches 9th grade English, but she has no idea how to diagram a sentence.
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 7:32:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 7:32:00 PM EDT
Susanlynn: I for one am glad to hear that diagramming is returning. ---And, I have always wondered how in an ESL class you manage to take students who come from diverse language backgrounds and funnel them into understanding your instruction/s in a single language. It's like reversing the aftermath of Babel.
Hi, Jardinera~~~How's your Memorial weekend going ? Odd thing about grammar. Two of my best friends used to teach high school English before going off to other jobs. They both attended the same college I attended and neither had any advanced Grammar classes in college. My late brother-in-law who was also a high school English teacher did have grammar in college, but he was 10 years older than I . Diagramming lets you visually deconstruct the sentence. It's like looking at a blueprint of a building . We'll see if it returns. I had to teach my own kids grammar because in this area something called process writing took hold of the schools when they were in elementary school. This concept more or less downplays formal grammar and spelling instruction in favor of just ''expressing oneself freely. Self expression is great , but I think that they threw the baby out with the bath water. Also, spell and grammar checks on the computer are also something new under the sun. I'll always be grateful for my traditional education.
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 8:28:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 8:28:00 PM EDT
Jardinera~~~Oh, about ESL, I've found that speaking slowly and clearly and writing on the board and providing lots of graphic organizers helps a lot. I try to address all their senses . Also, my job is to make my students feel positive and confident and relaxed. I find that once they start smiling and laughing , they start learning by leaps and bounds. I try to make each lesson interesting and fun. I love to teach , and I think that makes them love to learn. Each semester, I feel as if I am starting a new adventure with new companions along for the ride. I've met so many wonderful people from all over the world from the ages of 16 to 80. I love my job.I love to see my students interacting , and they seem to enjoy learning about other cultures as much as learning English. By the end of each semester, we have become very close and have lots of inside jokes to share and memories to keep. I just said goodbye to a lovely young woman who brought her new daughter to see me before they return to Japan.
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 8:38:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 8:38:00 PM EDT
Thanks Jardinera for a great recap. I must say that you are really dedicated. It must take a lot of time to write out the recap and then respond to all of the comments that the recap generates. It's no secret how you spend your weekends (smile). Out of the 40 comments I'll bet almost all are yours. You love to encourage and make sure everyone is having a good time and that requires giving us your utmost attention. Anyway, thanks for sharing your talent and time with us throughout each weekend. I hope you are going to spend some time away from the blog and enjoy your holiday :) Trish
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 8:50:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 8:50:00 PM EDT
oops, make that out of 80 comments so far, not 40 as I mistakenly said.
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 8:54:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 8:54:00 PM EDT
OK, Let me try one more time. Out of 80 comments so far, I'll bet almost half (40 are yours). (Meant as a compliment of course)!
Permalink posted by : Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 8:56:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, May 24, 2009 at 8:56:00 PM EDT
Su - Declining grammar standards. Don't get me started!
Do I remember diagramming? Was Moses Jewish? I wrote the book! No, actually, I didn't. I wrote the web page. I considered writing the book but discarded the idea. If you read that page you'll see why I'm a big believer in diagramming for most students. The practice is very popular among homeschoolers (HSers). Probably half of independent HSers use diagramming for grammar instruction. (They also tend to teach phonics and Latin/Greek roots, and they memorize times tables - effective methods most schools abandoned years ago.)
Su, it's interesting. In your examples of phrasal verbs and the corresponding simple (one-word)verb, all your phrasal verbs have Anglo-Saxon (AS) origins and all your simple verbs have Latin origins. In fact, all the phrasal verbs I can think of have AS origins. I wonder. Does German have phrasal verbs?
What is it about great grammar teacers being.., um.. eccentric (yeah, that's a good word for it)? Franklin Fahrenbach certainly fit that description. The sad thing was, we came out of Jr Hi with an exceptional foundation in grammar, but the Sr Hi English teachers (whom I respect too) never incorporated our grammar foundation into our composition instruction. It wasn't until I started homeschooling that I learned grammar-based guidelines for writing good sentences. Sad.
Do I remember diagramming? Was Moses Jewish? I wrote the book! No, actually, I didn't. I wrote the web page. I considered writing the book but discarded the idea. If you read that page you'll see why I'm a big believer in diagramming for most students. The practice is very popular among homeschoolers (HSers). Probably half of independent HSers use diagramming for grammar instruction. (They also tend to teach phonics and Latin/Greek roots, and they memorize times tables - effective methods most schools abandoned years ago.)
Su, it's interesting. In your examples of phrasal verbs and the corresponding simple (one-word)verb, all your phrasal verbs have Anglo-Saxon (AS) origins and all your simple verbs have Latin origins. In fact, all the phrasal verbs I can think of have AS origins. I wonder. Does German have phrasal verbs?
What is it about great grammar teacers being.., um.. eccentric (yeah, that's a good word for it)? Franklin Fahrenbach certainly fit that description. The sad thing was, we came out of Jr Hi with an exceptional foundation in grammar, but the Sr Hi English teachers (whom I respect too) never incorporated our grammar foundation into our composition instruction. It wasn't until I started homeschooling that I learned grammar-based guidelines for writing good sentences. Sad.
Trish: Welcome! Thank you! I am amazed at all the folks out in Viewerville who read us here and grateful to all of you who take the time to express your appreciation.
To tell you the truth I don't really mind it at all since the folks on this blog are a sort of extended family, and I enjoy the challenge. I understand these things can take the recappers anywhere from 6-9 hours on average --longer for me cuz when it comes right down to it, I'm not exactly Quick-Draw McGraw. (Must've been something my mother ate regularly when I was still in the womb.) I have to ruminate and hope something comes to the surface. If not I must bribe my muse. --As long as it's coherent, generally enjoyable, and gives a reader what they need in the way of the progression of the storyline, I'd say all of us who do these things feel like they've done what they set out to do.
To tell you the truth I don't really mind it at all since the folks on this blog are a sort of extended family, and I enjoy the challenge. I understand these things can take the recappers anywhere from 6-9 hours on average --longer for me cuz when it comes right down to it, I'm not exactly Quick-Draw McGraw. (Must've been something my mother ate regularly when I was still in the womb.) I have to ruminate and hope something comes to the surface. If not I must bribe my muse. --As long as it's coherent, generally enjoyable, and gives a reader what they need in the way of the progression of the storyline, I'd say all of us who do these things feel like they've done what they set out to do.
Doris, if you consider diagramming fun (I can relate), you must, must, MUST read Sister Bernadette's Barking Dog by Florey. Many libraries have it. It's not an instruction book; it's a book about her love of diagramming. See this essay to get an idea of the delights of Florey's writing.
Oh Susanlynn! I hear ya'! As I mentioned to PaulaH a while back, I believe whole-heartedly in the value of diagramming sentences as it is the true building block of decent, intelligible writing. It also is an essential, IMO, for learning any of the romance languages. --I suppose I should say "any language," but I am only familiar with those.
I had to teach both my children, who are in the same age range as yours, how to diagram and outline as well. They were lost until then because the "free-style" methods essentially left them funtionally illiterate when it came to coherent thought and articulate, lucid expression when putting pen to paper. It made me extremely angry and I felt like the teachers should have been paying me instead of the other way 'round. Ah well, better to breathe deep and think calming thoughts after remembering all that.....
As for PaulaH's web page, it is another yummy large box of chocolates, the multi-layered kind; and I do recommend it for a look-see to anybody who prefers classical/traditional education.
I'm tuckered, so pardon the lapses here.
I had to teach both my children, who are in the same age range as yours, how to diagram and outline as well. They were lost until then because the "free-style" methods essentially left them funtionally illiterate when it came to coherent thought and articulate, lucid expression when putting pen to paper. It made me extremely angry and I felt like the teachers should have been paying me instead of the other way 'round. Ah well, better to breathe deep and think calming thoughts after remembering all that.....
As for PaulaH's web page, it is another yummy large box of chocolates, the multi-layered kind; and I do recommend it for a look-see to anybody who prefers classical/traditional education.
I'm tuckered, so pardon the lapses here.
PaulaH - Oh thank you for those links! The ESL teacher for whom I volunteer (is that correct grammar?) and I were talking about sentence diagramming, a month or two ago. I'm going to share those links with her. Most of our students are Korean and Japanese corporate and doctors' wives, and would probably enjoy diagramming.
Jardinera - Wouldn't it be nice if the schools taught all they should? Unfortunately, it's not always the teachers' fault. I fault the school systems, which nowadays are more and more about curriculums that achieve good scores on NCLB type tests (que basura!) than actually educating them to be literate, etc.
Jardinera - Wouldn't it be nice if the schools taught all they should? Unfortunately, it's not always the teachers' fault. I fault the school systems, which nowadays are more and more about curriculums that achieve good scores on NCLB type tests (que basura!) than actually educating them to be literate, etc.
I can't say I ever loved diagramming sentences, but I learned a lot during the short time we diagrammed in school. Normally, grammar exercises asked us to identify subject/predicate, OR prepositional phrases, OR adverbs, etc. and the rest of the sentence is there for decoration. But if you really want to understand grammar (important if you're going to learn other languages, or edit/proofread), those exercises are just kid stuff.
With diagramming, it's less about parts of speech and more about the actual function of every single word within the sentence. You get a real appreciation for adjectives that look like nouns, nouns that look like verbs, etc. and the different kinds of phrases and clauses - things that my teachers did not spend much time on (and seemed to dread, due to mass student confusion/boredom) in class.
With diagramming, it's less about parts of speech and more about the actual function of every single word within the sentence. You get a real appreciation for adjectives that look like nouns, nouns that look like verbs, etc. and the different kinds of phrases and clauses - things that my teachers did not spend much time on (and seemed to dread, due to mass student confusion/boredom) in class.
I'd love to claim that I deliberately include at least one grammar/punctuation/spelling error in every comment to see if people are paying attention, but I'd be lying.
As for Spanish, I know just enough to understand what a character is trying to say, but not enough to know how he/she should have said it.
I assume that it's usually right, but just as in English-language programming, some of the less-educated characters must be speaking substandard Spanish. I wonder if that's why I find folksy servant characters, gangsters, etc. hard to understand. I hadn't thought of that before. I know it's partly a vocabulary problem because I don't know all the slang and regional/archaic words, but there could be a grammar issue too.
As for Spanish, I know just enough to understand what a character is trying to say, but not enough to know how he/she should have said it.
I assume that it's usually right, but just as in English-language programming, some of the less-educated characters must be speaking substandard Spanish. I wonder if that's why I find folksy servant characters, gangsters, etc. hard to understand. I hadn't thought of that before. I know it's partly a vocabulary problem because I don't know all the slang and regional/archaic words, but there could be a grammar issue too.
Paula, Jardinera, Doris, Julie~~~We all seem to be singing in the same chorus. Besides Miss Moore , I had los of other English teachers who stressed grammar in elementary and high school. [I went to a very small rural school. There were 500 students in grades 7 to 12 , and we were all in one building which was just a few steps up and over from the elementary. ] We had handy little grammar books that we used every day. We all graduated knowing how to write a good sentence...a good paragraph...a good essay. [When I turtored American students a few years ago at the college, I was surprised at how many had graduated from High school without knowing how to write a good sentence. They also struggled with reading . ] We could also spell and read. In fact, my creative writing teacher accused me of plagarism , and then he went on to duplicate my essays to use as examples for the next year. When my girls went to the same school hub and I attended, I was amazed to hear about process writing. [Hub was more interested in baseball and wrestling, so I'm still trying to teach him grammar....for example , good vs well . I think I'm going to give up on that soon. ] What happened to all those great little grammar books . Both my daughters became good writers , but I taught them grammar and what to look for when proofreding. I've always liked grammar and writing, but when I started teaching ESL, I learned how to pull apart the sentence and see how everything fit together. You have to do that when you teach somebody sopmething. It's like taking apart a clock and putting it back together again to truly understand what makes it tick. Paula~~Were you home schooled , or did you home school your children ? Even though I'm a teacher, I did not take on that challenge of teaching my own children except informally in the evenings to help them and summers in Bible school. Doris~~We have some lovely Japanese women students whose husbands work at Olympus . My Asian [Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese] students usually have very strong study skills and a great work ethic. They know how to memorize and are very organized. However, we have students from many countries, Ecuador, Colombia, Brazil, Syria, Egypt, India,Nigeria, Turkey, Puerto Rico. It's always an interesting mix of cultures, ages, econonmic levels, personalities. What level are your students -beginning, intermediate, or advanced ?
Permalink posted by : Monday, May 25, 2009 at 11:13:00 AM EDT
: Monday, May 25, 2009 at 11:13:00 AM EDT
Doris: I don't doubt it at all.
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Julie: I guess I always revered my teachers and thought all of them would know how to teach diagramming. I'm wondering if a preponderence of those in charge of mass curriculum at the time and who were making the decision dumped it because they couldn't figure it out themselves. Jus' sayin' it's possible.....
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Susanlynn: "my creative writing teacher accused me of plagarism" OMG! I had a lit/writing teacher in college who accused me too. I got angry and dug in my platforms. After reading a few more of my essays she finally admitted she was wrong. Kind of an odd experience, I must say.
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Julie: I guess I always revered my teachers and thought all of them would know how to teach diagramming. I'm wondering if a preponderence of those in charge of mass curriculum at the time and who were making the decision dumped it because they couldn't figure it out themselves. Jus' sayin' it's possible.....
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Susanlynn: "my creative writing teacher accused me of plagarism" OMG! I had a lit/writing teacher in college who accused me too. I got angry and dug in my platforms. After reading a few more of my essays she finally admitted she was wrong. Kind of an odd experience, I must say.
OK! Who thinks that Damian will play mind games with Fer eventually and sweet-talk her into accepting him back after she loses her virginity to Fr/Ed? And, if so, that she does it out of a misplaced sense of duty?
Jardinera~~~That prediction works for me. By the way, I must confess that my h.s. creative writing teacher kept my original essays and gave me the duplicates after I begged for them . I actually reworked a couple of them for a freshman writing class that I had with the stuffy, quirky dean of women.[I prefrred my prim and proper Miss Moore... at least she was always grinning. ] Well, back to the patio. After days of rainy grayness, we are having a perfect sunny day. Hope everyone is enjoying their Memorial Day.
Permalink posted by : Monday, May 25, 2009 at 12:26:00 PM EDT
: Monday, May 25, 2009 at 12:26:00 PM EDT
Susanlynn - I help the teacher in the Advanced level class and teach the Conversational English class in the afternoon by myself. We heard that Adv. level will be eliminated in the fall, due to budget shortages (the economy). My teacher will be teaching the next level down, Intermediate, in the Fall. I'll continue my Conversation class as an arc of her class.
I know the Koreans learn by rote memorization; that became apparent after tutoring two different pharmacists in conversational English. The Japanese probably learn in the same method and we don’t get enough Chinese here for me to determine their learning style.
It has been interesting to note the differences between the Koreans and the Japanese, both in cultural behavior and learning styles and how one affects the other. The Koreans are usually more aggressive, asking lots of questions, not shy about asking the whys and wherefores for English, and the Japanese tend to be more reserved. Many Japanese do come out of their shell by the second semester, and that makes the experience so much richer.
The Japanese are more afraid of making a mistake while speaking and suffering public embarrassment. They’ve told me this. Koreans appear to be more ‘confrontational’ as a culture and in relationships, etc. (quick to confront & argue),, so they aren’t too intimidated by making a mistake. This is my observation. Both countries, as you know by know, place a lot of pressure on academics on their children, back home. In Korea, the kids who go to public schools are often with a private (paid) tutor all evening. It’s a way of life, and I think that is why most Koreans love it here, and love our K-12 schools. Their kids can have a life after 3:00 p.m.
We see other nationalities in the classes and the lower levels are more mixed. We have Iranians from time to time, and the occasional person from South & Central America, Russia, Slovakia, Sudan, Afghanistan Ukranian, Turkey, Pakistan, India, you-name-it, etc. We are in a “commuter” suburb county, adjacent to a metropolitan city, so the classes there are probably more diverse. The Spanish speakers who are here to stay ‘indefinitely’ usually are out working by the time they have the basics of English under their belt. Having to work and the lack of child care reduce their attendance at the Advanced level.
I love this type volunteer work. It is so rewarding to teach a Japanese lady how to call a golf course and make a tee time, so she doesn't have to bother her husband to do it, and Michiko was so proud of herself when she came to class the next week and told me she did it! Another Japanese lady and her husband were invited to a wedding of her DH's co-worker. She wanted to know about gift-giving customs here, which are quite different from Japan. I explained about bridal gift registries, which they think is genius. (well... it is, IMO) They don't have them over there. I showed them some online gift registries, how they work, and Miyuki was so proud of herself to report back the following week that she had used one to purchase the wedding gift.
They learn not just how to speak, but about the culture in my class. This year's group kept me on my toes, when they wanted to know what St. Patrick's Day is all about, the shamrock, etc. Then along came Good Friday and they wanted to know what was so good about that day, since the main character was killed. Then they wanted to know if they could visit a Christian church, would they be welcome to, etc. It was quite a brain strain to explain it all in a neutral manner.
I know the Koreans learn by rote memorization; that became apparent after tutoring two different pharmacists in conversational English. The Japanese probably learn in the same method and we don’t get enough Chinese here for me to determine their learning style.
It has been interesting to note the differences between the Koreans and the Japanese, both in cultural behavior and learning styles and how one affects the other. The Koreans are usually more aggressive, asking lots of questions, not shy about asking the whys and wherefores for English, and the Japanese tend to be more reserved. Many Japanese do come out of their shell by the second semester, and that makes the experience so much richer.
The Japanese are more afraid of making a mistake while speaking and suffering public embarrassment. They’ve told me this. Koreans appear to be more ‘confrontational’ as a culture and in relationships, etc. (quick to confront & argue),, so they aren’t too intimidated by making a mistake. This is my observation. Both countries, as you know by know, place a lot of pressure on academics on their children, back home. In Korea, the kids who go to public schools are often with a private (paid) tutor all evening. It’s a way of life, and I think that is why most Koreans love it here, and love our K-12 schools. Their kids can have a life after 3:00 p.m.
We see other nationalities in the classes and the lower levels are more mixed. We have Iranians from time to time, and the occasional person from South & Central America, Russia, Slovakia, Sudan, Afghanistan Ukranian, Turkey, Pakistan, India, you-name-it, etc. We are in a “commuter” suburb county, adjacent to a metropolitan city, so the classes there are probably more diverse. The Spanish speakers who are here to stay ‘indefinitely’ usually are out working by the time they have the basics of English under their belt. Having to work and the lack of child care reduce their attendance at the Advanced level.
I love this type volunteer work. It is so rewarding to teach a Japanese lady how to call a golf course and make a tee time, so she doesn't have to bother her husband to do it, and Michiko was so proud of herself when she came to class the next week and told me she did it! Another Japanese lady and her husband were invited to a wedding of her DH's co-worker. She wanted to know about gift-giving customs here, which are quite different from Japan. I explained about bridal gift registries, which they think is genius. (well... it is, IMO) They don't have them over there. I showed them some online gift registries, how they work, and Miyuki was so proud of herself to report back the following week that she had used one to purchase the wedding gift.
They learn not just how to speak, but about the culture in my class. This year's group kept me on my toes, when they wanted to know what St. Patrick's Day is all about, the shamrock, etc. Then along came Good Friday and they wanted to know what was so good about that day, since the main character was killed. Then they wanted to know if they could visit a Christian church, would they be welcome to, etc. It was quite a brain strain to explain it all in a neutral manner.
Paula~~That is an interesting site. I want to go back and look at it more closely when I have more time. My dear late brother-in-law was an English teacher who loved teaching and loved diagramming. Any discussion about diagramming makes me smile and remember him. Actually, a big buzzword in ESL today is ''graphic organizers'' . They are basically charts used to make concepts easy to learn. Diagramming is really the original graphic organizer. Educators like to come up with new jargon. [HMMM...''come up with'' is a 3-word verb = ''invent'' or ''create.''] Your comment about the words with several syllables was interesting. They often come from Latin , whereas the short words in English are Germanic. My Spanishspeaking students sometimes do not know these short words, but if I can give them a synonym with three or four syllables....BINGO. [Example
: true = authentic] Anyway if diagramming returns, it will probably be called something else. New and different isn't always better. Sometimes the old tried and true devices are the best. After years of turning their backs on phonics, teachers are returning to it to teach reading. Luckily, my kids had older teachers in elementary who kept teaching phonics . They are both avid readers.
: true = authentic] Anyway if diagramming returns, it will probably be called something else. New and different isn't always better. Sometimes the old tried and true devices are the best. After years of turning their backs on phonics, teachers are returning to it to teach reading. Luckily, my kids had older teachers in elementary who kept teaching phonics . They are both avid readers.
Permalink posted by : Monday, May 25, 2009 at 12:41:00 PM EDT
: Monday, May 25, 2009 at 12:41:00 PM EDT
Doris~~I can tell that you love teaching ESL, too. The courses that I teach are at a community college and are designed to prepare ther students to take college classes. Therefore, the speaking classes that I teach are not conversational. I must teach them how to listen to lectures in English and take notes . The students must learn how to give formal speeches, and I also try to help them with pronunciation. [My boss teaches an accent reduction class that only focuses on pronunciation , stress, etc.] Some students [especially the Japanese and Koreans] struggle more with listening and comprehending than they do with speaking. I've noticed that my Spanishspeaking and Arabic students are usually more laidback and less organized than the Asian students. My younger daughter teaches 9th grade English, and a few years ago when sje was teaching 7th grade English , she went to Japan on a Fulbright Scholarship with 200 other American teachers. She toured several schools and saw the students doing lots of memorizing. She was also surprised at how rowdy the students were. She found out that Japanese teachers can't stay at one school for more than 5 years or so. Then , they are transferred to a differeent school. This past semester, I had a Japanese woman who had been a kindergarten teacher, and she confirmed this fact. My daughter said that the Japanese are very concerned that their older population is growing while the birth rate has fallen.
Permalink posted by : Monday, May 25, 2009 at 12:55:00 PM EDT
: Monday, May 25, 2009 at 12:55:00 PM EDT
Kat, aka 5ft Latina: No takers yet. It would be great if you could do the 3rd Thursday. Contact me and/or Melinama at geles011@gmail.com (that's me). Thanks.
Thanks for the recap Jardinera. Also thanks for your comments.
I'm bummed I missed the conversation about Highlander. I discovered it in grad school and am always tickled when I find others who enjoy the program - the number of people on this blog who like the show is interesting. One day I should do a poll.
Grammar. I actually wish I had diagramming though I was taught the basics. I want to learn more and thanks for the website Paula. As a college professor, Susanlynn's comments about students not being able to write are still true. I am constantly shocked and saddened at the level of writing I encounter.
I'm bummed I missed the conversation about Highlander. I discovered it in grad school and am always tickled when I find others who enjoy the program - the number of people on this blog who like the show is interesting. One day I should do a poll.
Grammar. I actually wish I had diagramming though I was taught the basics. I want to learn more and thanks for the website Paula. As a college professor, Susanlynn's comments about students not being able to write are still true. I am constantly shocked and saddened at the level of writing I encounter.
Hi, Karen~~~Do you have the Highlander videos , or do you watch episodes on Hulu ??? I can see the connection between Highlander and the telenovelas,so I figured that folks here might also have been fans of that series. I miss Highlander. The quality of that production was high. I loved everything about it...the characters, the plotlines, the music, the period costumes, the settings, and the incredibly hunky Duncan. I also enjoyed traveling back in time in different places...Spain, England, France, the Middle East, China. I thought that it was a very philosophical show that dealt with the big issues..life, love, death. I surfed into the first episode right after my older daughter left the nest to start college and my dad passed away the same week after suffering for two years with a debilitating illness. I was depressed and lost. Strangely, Highlander helped to divery me while at the same time allowing me to do some soul searching .It actually helped me to get on with life again. I agree that kids are graduating high school and entering college without reading and writing skills. Schools have been forced to teach for the standardized testing with tragic results. Time to turn back to basics while still embracing all the technological advances of the last few years.
Permalink posted by : Monday, May 25, 2009 at 2:18:00 PM EDT
: Monday, May 25, 2009 at 2:18:00 PM EDT
Renee: "in fact, of the five who have been carrying these 15 years (Fer, Fr/Ed, Denia, Err and Santi), she's the only one who had actually made an attempt to give it up and get on with her life by marrying Damian."
You have really made a good point. I hadn't stopped to think about it before!
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Karen: Always glad to see you here.
You have really made a good point. I hadn't stopped to think about it before!
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Karen: Always glad to see you here.
GinCA:
"Yippee! Sortilegio (whatever that means)"
Sortilegio per Word Reference.com
sortilegio sustantivo masculino (embrujo) spell, charm;
(brujería) sorcery;
(adivinación) fortune-telling
also "witchcraft"
If it's a Carla Estrada production it should be pretty darned good --if the cast can carry it off.
"Yippee! Sortilegio (whatever that means)"
Sortilegio per Word Reference.com
sortilegio sustantivo masculino (embrujo) spell, charm;
(brujería) sorcery;
(adivinación) fortune-telling
also "witchcraft"
If it's a Carla Estrada production it should be pretty darned good --if the cast can carry it off.
A class full of Japanese and Koreans. Must be interesting. They're like cats and dogs, you know? Not just because they are natural rivals - no love lost, especially from the Koreans. But because their cultures are so stunningly opposite. The Koreans are the rollicking dogs and the Japanese are the quiet, guarded cats.
I lived in Korea for 18 months. I love the culture. Just like the Mexicans, particularly Norteño culture, they do everything in a big way. They celebrate big, they grieve big. When there is a funeral, you can hear the wailing throughout the village. It's common to see men shouting at each other on the street. Market day is a feast of interactions!
In the 70's, Christianity spread like wildfire in Korea. One person would become a Christian, and couldn't wait to tell 20 friends. Many of those 20 would take hold of it (wholeheartedly) and tell 20 more. On the other hand, it's not uncommon to see parents striking children, or sergeants striking privates (soldiers are everywhere) out on the street. Even their clothing is bigger-than-life! You'd see a man in an orange checkered shirt with blue striped pants. They live big.
I was there in the 70s, when the memories of the Japanese occupation were still relatively fresh. As I said, no love lost. Once a Korean soldier was trying to pick me up, and nothing I said could get him to leave me alone (remember, they do everything big). We were talking in a pidgen common in American-Korean conversations, and the pidgen has several Japanese words. So I said, "You say skoshi, taksan, honcho.. you know MANY Japanese words!" His face got red, he turned around, and walked off.
I lived in Korea for 18 months. I love the culture. Just like the Mexicans, particularly Norteño culture, they do everything in a big way. They celebrate big, they grieve big. When there is a funeral, you can hear the wailing throughout the village. It's common to see men shouting at each other on the street. Market day is a feast of interactions!
In the 70's, Christianity spread like wildfire in Korea. One person would become a Christian, and couldn't wait to tell 20 friends. Many of those 20 would take hold of it (wholeheartedly) and tell 20 more. On the other hand, it's not uncommon to see parents striking children, or sergeants striking privates (soldiers are everywhere) out on the street. Even their clothing is bigger-than-life! You'd see a man in an orange checkered shirt with blue striped pants. They live big.
I was there in the 70s, when the memories of the Japanese occupation were still relatively fresh. As I said, no love lost. Once a Korean soldier was trying to pick me up, and nothing I said could get him to leave me alone (remember, they do everything big). We were talking in a pidgen common in American-Korean conversations, and the pidgen has several Japanese words. So I said, "You say skoshi, taksan, honcho.. you know MANY Japanese words!" His face got red, he turned around, and walked off.
Julie, it's interesting that you mentioned postpositions. Korean has them instead of prepositions. e.g. "in the house" becomes a single word, house-in. Your comment about diagramming - teaching clauses would be much easier with diagramming than with mark-up grammar. No wonder I never really understood clauses until I learned diagramming as an adult. And a grasp of clauses is at the core of how I tackle a sentence.
Jardinera, I talked to an English department head who said that teachers are graduating with English degrees without knowing direct and indirect objects. My favorite textbook teaches that in 7th grade, por amor a diós!
Susanlynn, if you can find a Latin-based word in English, your Spanish speakers will almost always understand it, especially if they see it in writing. How do you know if an English word is Latin-based? Look for those prefixes Latin loves so much - re-, dis-, ex-, in-, com/con-, etc. If it has one of those, it's almost always Latin-based.
Karen, are you serious about wanting to learn diagramming? I've taught it to many adults. Take a look at my diagramming page, check the link to "Guide to Grammar and Writing," and then e-mail me your questions, paulah88@hotmail.com . I'll be happy to help (I wouldn't offer if I didn't mean it).
Jardinera, I talked to an English department head who said that teachers are graduating with English degrees without knowing direct and indirect objects. My favorite textbook teaches that in 7th grade, por amor a diós!
Susanlynn, if you can find a Latin-based word in English, your Spanish speakers will almost always understand it, especially if they see it in writing. How do you know if an English word is Latin-based? Look for those prefixes Latin loves so much - re-, dis-, ex-, in-, com/con-, etc. If it has one of those, it's almost always Latin-based.
Karen, are you serious about wanting to learn diagramming? I've taught it to many adults. Take a look at my diagramming page, check the link to "Guide to Grammar and Writing," and then e-mail me your questions, paulah88@hotmail.com . I'll be happy to help (I wouldn't offer if I didn't mean it).
Oops. Forgot to mention. About the show (I guess that's why we're supposed to be here, huh?).
Might Damian come back into Fernanda's life? I say that he has to. In the telenovela formula, you must have two people competing for one person's affections. Usually two men romancing one woman, but not always. The memory of Damian is certainly not enough to keep Fern away from Ed. And Ed won't fall for Erika, Gardenia, or anyone else. So it has to be Damian and Ed competing for Fern.
Besides, how long can the writers keep Damian at Vlad's? I don't mean that he'll wear out his welcome. It's just, how much plot can you write for a character who never leaves the apartment and never talks to anyone other than Vlad and his mama?
Now, will Damian return before or after Ed and Fern do the deed? I don't know. But one thing's certain. He'll be back.
Might Damian come back into Fernanda's life? I say that he has to. In the telenovela formula, you must have two people competing for one person's affections. Usually two men romancing one woman, but not always. The memory of Damian is certainly not enough to keep Fern away from Ed. And Ed won't fall for Erika, Gardenia, or anyone else. So it has to be Damian and Ed competing for Fern.
Besides, how long can the writers keep Damian at Vlad's? I don't mean that he'll wear out his welcome. It's just, how much plot can you write for a character who never leaves the apartment and never talks to anyone other than Vlad and his mama?
Now, will Damian return before or after Ed and Fern do the deed? I don't know. But one thing's certain. He'll be back.
I don't see how Damian can possibly come back to woo Fernanda as long as he's being blamed for the theft of the Grupo Lactos funds. If we want to see him out of hiding and actively competing for Fernanda, the blame has to fall onto someone else. Who else can plausibly be blamed? Who else had motive, means, and opportunity, besides Barbara? It seems way too early for her to get caught.
Paula H - I did not know about Korean culture's "living large"! The ladies we see are dressed very normally, behavior is conservative, perhaps because they remember they are a guest in this country and representatives of their own.
I knew about the Japanese invasion of Korea, enslaving them, no love lost, etc. The two nations get along well in our small class, but then we get along with the Japanese after Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima. Water under the bridge, ancestors were responsible for it, etc.
This is interesting: One day last year, the teacher had the students talking about their families, ancestors, etc. (she does that often along with journaling) and one of the Korean women talked about the Japanese invasion, enslavement, etc., and how it affected the direction of her family. There was an lovely, educated Japanese woman (Tamoko), whose age would be late 30s or early 40s, who had no idea of this aspect of her country's history. She could not believe it, but the teacher verified that it was true. Tamoko broke down in tears out of shame and embarrassment, and left class very upset. Not sure if she was upset about what her country had done, or because she did not know the history. Nonetheless, it was not taught to her in school.
A funny story.... one day the phrase "take a cold shower" came up when we were discussing Hollywood hunks like Brad Pitt, etc. The students didn't know what it meant, so we had to explain. (remember, this is NOT a community college, just a local Literacy Council/United Way funded agency and the classes are free.) Often we'll ask the students if there is an equivalent idiom in their country, and how does it translate. The Korean women all looked at each other, started giggling, and pounding their fist on to the top of their legs. THEIR turn to explain to us. In Korea, idiom is that the widows, divorcees, etc., stab their thigh with a fork to achieve the same effect as a cold shower. We were hysterical with laughter. For days.
;-D
I knew about the Japanese invasion of Korea, enslaving them, no love lost, etc. The two nations get along well in our small class, but then we get along with the Japanese after Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima. Water under the bridge, ancestors were responsible for it, etc.
This is interesting: One day last year, the teacher had the students talking about their families, ancestors, etc. (she does that often along with journaling) and one of the Korean women talked about the Japanese invasion, enslavement, etc., and how it affected the direction of her family. There was an lovely, educated Japanese woman (Tamoko), whose age would be late 30s or early 40s, who had no idea of this aspect of her country's history. She could not believe it, but the teacher verified that it was true. Tamoko broke down in tears out of shame and embarrassment, and left class very upset. Not sure if she was upset about what her country had done, or because she did not know the history. Nonetheless, it was not taught to her in school.
A funny story.... one day the phrase "take a cold shower" came up when we were discussing Hollywood hunks like Brad Pitt, etc. The students didn't know what it meant, so we had to explain. (remember, this is NOT a community college, just a local Literacy Council/United Way funded agency and the classes are free.) Often we'll ask the students if there is an equivalent idiom in their country, and how does it translate. The Korean women all looked at each other, started giggling, and pounding their fist on to the top of their legs. THEIR turn to explain to us. In Korea, idiom is that the widows, divorcees, etc., stab their thigh with a fork to achieve the same effect as a cold shower. We were hysterical with laughter. For days.
;-D
Hi Susanlynn - yes I have a few episodes taped (on VHS) with Methos. I loved both him and Duncan. The mythology on the show was really interesting. I'm sorry about losing your father but happy that show helped during your grieving process. Perhaps our educational system will start to move away from the testing model and teach in a more well rounded manner.
Paula - Thanks for the offer. I'll e-mail you if I have any questions. Also your theory on Damian is interesting. While I agree he's probably not going away any time soon, I don't see how he is going to come back without unmasking Barb.
Paula - Thanks for the offer. I'll e-mail you if I have any questions. Also your theory on Damian is interesting. While I agree he's probably not going away any time soon, I don't see how he is going to come back without unmasking Barb.
PaulaH: Nifty story about being hit on by a Korean soldier. My sis-in-law was a Peace Corps volunteer who taught English in 1970's Korea. Then she became a Lutheran Missionary in Taiwan for a couple of years.
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Anyone want to guess who Estev will finally fall in love with? My guess is Err because Santi's taken, Eddie's taken, Damian's a villain who's shameful idea to ditch Nanda for $3 million bucks and cheated on her with her step-mother will eventually come out, and Denia is a servant. I don't see a wealthy NYC and Hamptons type marrying his best buddie's housekeeper.
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Anyone want to guess who Estev will finally fall in love with? My guess is Err because Santi's taken, Eddie's taken, Damian's a villain who's shameful idea to ditch Nanda for $3 million bucks and cheated on her with her step-mother will eventually come out, and Denia is a servant. I don't see a wealthy NYC and Hamptons type marrying his best buddie's housekeeper.
My guess is that Fr/ed and Fern will do the bunny hop^hop^hop before Dam reappears. Thus, leaving Fern with the dilemma : do I go with the only guy I've ever hopped with, or do I go with my till death-do-we partner??? We all know the answer to that question, but Fern will agonize over it for many episodes.
Permalink posted by : Monday, May 25, 2009 at 5:56:00 PM EDT
: Monday, May 25, 2009 at 5:56:00 PM EDT
p.s. I should say re: Estev, I know it's been mentioned before, so at this point in the story.
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I figure Fer and Eddie will get busy before Damn gets back into the picture for whatever reason, and she still will not sleep with Damian because Babs is still hot for his bod despite double-crossing him and will maneuver against it and because Nanda, having done the deed with Fr/Ed would never be allowed to be unfaithful.
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I figure Fer and Eddie will get busy before Damn gets back into the picture for whatever reason, and she still will not sleep with Damian because Babs is still hot for his bod despite double-crossing him and will maneuver against it and because Nanda, having done the deed with Fr/Ed would never be allowed to be unfaithful.
Well, I'm going to have to be Devil's Advocate and argue just the opposite. Esteve will fall for Gardenia because most telenovelas follow the Cinderella principle. Low-born but pretty, feisty gal wins the heart of highborn, seemingly unattainable galán. He finds her spontaneity and energy beguiling, not to mention her generous physical attributes.
Ericka has nothing going for her. She's a vapid, delusional debutante. Far more boring than the much maligned Aurora whom I find rather appealing in her vulnerability. Erika is just annoying. Which is too bad because I really like the actress and wish she had landed a more sympathetic part.
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Ericka has nothing going for her. She's a vapid, delusional debutante. Far more boring than the much maligned Aurora whom I find rather appealing in her vulnerability. Erika is just annoying. Which is too bad because I really like the actress and wish she had landed a more sympathetic part.
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