Friday, January 07, 2011
La Verdad Oculta EP78 01/06/2011 – Kramer vs. Victoria & Limón
*Fausto firmly protests against David’s idea of telling everything to Gaby because he can’t risk the love of his daughters. He’ll do it but please give him more time. However, David is afraid that if keeps holding back the truth he may lose Gabriela’s trust.
* While Leonardo is at work Julieta takes care of Paula. He’d like to spend the day with Juli, too, and the lovebirds share an extremely long and sweet goodbye kiss at the doorstep. In the Ávila condo Adolfo gives Édgar money for his services then he asks him to put poor, dying Mario out of his misery.
*At AFI’s Juan José finally confesses to Leonardo about the blackmail, the video tape and the helicopter that proves it was Javier Garnica who stole 10 million pesos from him. *Viewerville: Leo, that’s a cute shirt… err, JJ, what was you talking about?*Medina and Elsa are also discussing Garnica’s strange disappear, they have to find him or look for another invest. While Elsa is looking for Zaida’s phone number Leonardo arrives at the architect studio to ask a few questions about Garnica and he tells Medina about the blackmail.
*Yolanda calls Gabriela to ask her about Susana but her nice words are interrupted by Gaby, who’s completely fed up with hypocrite liars who help criminals. David, who heard the entire conversation, is very proud of his girl. In the neighbouring house JJ and Asunción try to find a solution for their custody problem. JJ’s newest Nobel prized idea is taking Caramelo out from school and she’ll be tutored at home by private teachers. And if the social worker shows up again they’ll tell her a relative of Caramelo took the girl away. *Viewerville: headdesk*
*Julieta and Paulita talk about their love life. Paula has a boyfriend, and what about Juli? Well, she has one but she won’t tell her his name. When Leo arrives at home Paula immediately tells her daddy the news. Oh, really? It’s kissing time again. In JJ’s house he tearfully tells Caramelo she can’t return to school, however, she’ll be tutored at home and it’ll be great fun. Cara hates the idea.
*In the hospital the English Patient’s is in the same condition. The nurse shows the doctor Susana’s stuff. She has no identity card, but look, here’s a pair of shoes and the photo of a woman! Alejandra visits Juan José and learns from angry Caramelo about JJ’s cunning plan. She tells pumpkinhead he’s about to commit a crime, Asunción will lose the child and he’ll end up in jail again! Be reasonable and let the lawyer do his job.
* Back in the design studio troubled Alejandra tells Mina about Garnica’s blackmail and Caramelo’s problem. When Mina asks her why doesn’t she adopt the kid she gets freaks out at the thought. She wants to raise her own children, and anyway, maybe it would be the best if Elsa adopted her. Leonardo visit FaustiMario to talk about Julieta. Julieta? What happened to her?! I’d like to… WHAT? I’d like too… TALK ALREADY! He’d like to ask Fausto’s permission to court her. Well, okay.
* Carlos visits Freud himself, I mean, a psychologist to talk about his good old daddy issues and his low self-esteem. Does he have any idea why his father hates him so much? What’s his relationship like with his mother? He never knew her and he was never allowed to ask questions about her. After realizing that his plan was stupid Juan José is ready to give Caramelo to Elsa and he asks Asunción to call her. At the psychologist Carlos keeps talking about his father and his job he loves much. His job is the only thing that makes him happy, it makes him feel respectable. After sharing his thoughts on trust and life the psychologist has one question left: does Carlos love his father?
*In her lovely bedroom Caramelo and Elsa talk about their future. Naturally they won’t lose each other, they’ll meet regularly. However, Caramelo wants everything, she wants Elsa to be her mother. Doorbell. It’s the social worker who tells Asunción it’s high time to legalize Cara’s situation. Juan José admits Asunción’s never attended school, and he… he has criminal records. The social worker is sorry but the child can’t stay in the house. Everyone cries, the boys in the living room, Caramelo and Elsa in her bedroom. Asunción won’t survive the loss of the child and asks JJ to flee with the girl. No, it’s impossible. More crying.
Elsa shows up in the living room and learns about the social worker. The girl will be spent to an orphanage. No way! She’ll adopt her! No, YOU won’t, shouts JJ. *Viewerville: dude, ten minutes ago you wanted her to adopt her* While Asunción is crying on the couch the kids quarrel (as usual) and insult each other (as usual), but eventually they agree that Elsa may take the child. Caramelo loves the idea. You’ll be my mother? Really? Really!
*With Édgar’s help Adolfo sneaks into Mario’s where he confronts David. Mark his words, he won’t break the contract because the Genovéses have no proof against him. Adolfo pushes David on the floor and he kicks the defenseless boy several times to make him understand: nobody can threaten Adolfo Ávila. Nobody!
Aribeth
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Thank you in advance, Aribeth! Looking forward to the ep, except that Juan José looks pretty depressed.
Here are the You Tube links for Episode 78:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Here are the You Tube links for Episode 78:
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Oh my goodness. This whole episode had wonderful highs (Leo and Juli) and depressing lows (JJ and Limon), but that last scene was particularly disturbing.
Looking forward to the recap and discussion!
Looking forward to the recap and discussion!
xlnt- Ditto everything you said. Poor David!
I was so mad at JJ for how hateful he was towards Elsa, who was only trying to do what makes sense for Caramelo. Hire someone to adopt her???? WTF? Not cool. Caramelo was so happy to be with HER mommy (aka Tia Elsa).
And Elsa is the only one among them who actually has lived in an orphanage (after Marcos killed their stepdad and went to jail), and does NOT want that for Caramelo. I find her back story fascinating. At first glance she looks like this sweet sheltered girl, but Elsa has lived a hard life. But she never harps on it the way JJ is always harping on how life has been unjust to him. I like her more and more. Loved her comment to JJ that he NEVER really knew her if he thinks she is the kind of person who would treat Caramelo differently once she has her own bio children or keep Caramelo from them. While JJ has been surly about letting Elsa come to the house to see Caramelo, Elsa immediately told Cara that Limon and JJ could see her ANYTIME she wants when she comes to live with Elsa.
I am really liking Juli and Leo. She brings out a playfulness in him, like Paulita does. Great kisses too!
Each of the couples are really different and have their own unique energy. No two are the same in the way they interact with each other. No carbon copy romances. But each rings true in their own way, and each has their particular issues to work through. David&Gabi; JJ&Ale; Mau&Elsa; Leo&Juli; even Carlos&Bertha.
Last comment before rushing off to an early meeting in Baltimore. Did wardrobe put one of Bertha's skirts on Elsa accidentally??? That's what it looked like to me. A skirt that would be short on anyone else, but on tall Elsa... Lol! :)
Can't wait for the recap and discussion of last night's events.
I was so mad at JJ for how hateful he was towards Elsa, who was only trying to do what makes sense for Caramelo. Hire someone to adopt her???? WTF? Not cool. Caramelo was so happy to be with HER mommy (aka Tia Elsa).
And Elsa is the only one among them who actually has lived in an orphanage (after Marcos killed their stepdad and went to jail), and does NOT want that for Caramelo. I find her back story fascinating. At first glance she looks like this sweet sheltered girl, but Elsa has lived a hard life. But she never harps on it the way JJ is always harping on how life has been unjust to him. I like her more and more. Loved her comment to JJ that he NEVER really knew her if he thinks she is the kind of person who would treat Caramelo differently once she has her own bio children or keep Caramelo from them. While JJ has been surly about letting Elsa come to the house to see Caramelo, Elsa immediately told Cara that Limon and JJ could see her ANYTIME she wants when she comes to live with Elsa.
I am really liking Juli and Leo. She brings out a playfulness in him, like Paulita does. Great kisses too!
Each of the couples are really different and have their own unique energy. No two are the same in the way they interact with each other. No carbon copy romances. But each rings true in their own way, and each has their particular issues to work through. David&Gabi; JJ&Ale; Mau&Elsa; Leo&Juli; even Carlos&Bertha.
Last comment before rushing off to an early meeting in Baltimore. Did wardrobe put one of Bertha's skirts on Elsa accidentally??? That's what it looked like to me. A skirt that would be short on anyone else, but on tall Elsa... Lol! :)
Can't wait for the recap and discussion of last night's events.
This is the best solution right now: Elsa and Caramelo love each other and at least she won't end up in an orphanage. But I firmly in Team Caramelo Should Stay With The Men. I hope this won't be permanent.
the only one among them who actually has lived in an orphanage
We have no proof of that - her mother died later and I always guessed she was taken care of by her relatives.
Hire someone to adopt her???? WTF? Not cool.
Or maybe ask David and Gaby? Leonardo? Fausto? Abelardo? She didn't even give him time to find a reasonable solution. I would've preferred her to say "Look, guys, I'll adopt Caramelo because her future is at stake and when you manage to solve your problems we'll discuss the custody again. If she wants me she'll stay with me if she wants you she'll stay with you. Or we could ask for shared custody. Just don't panick, everything will be fine." But not, she looked at the desperate, crying men and practically said "I'll take Caramelo forever because you suck and JJ and his girlfriend don't deserve her."
Bravo, great sense of diplomacy. It reminded me of her early quarrels with JJ when she didn't say "Come on, man, don't be so irrational. If you don't want to be my boyfriend then please don't be so jealous. You have your own life, too. Yes, you heard well, I said boyfriend. I love you, you idiot. I. LOVE. YOU. Understood? LOVE YOU!!!" But every time they quarreled she just kept bickering about that vieja Alejandra. And naturally pumpkinhead JJ, who has no sense for subtlety, could never understand her feelings.
What JJ said her was hurtful and unjust but he was desperate, angry and he didn't use his brain. And she deserved it for her previous comment. Yeah, Elsa can insult Alejandra and she can say that she surely wouldn't love an adopted child but nobody is allowed to say the same about her because she's the role model of mothers. Sorry, Elsita, your hate against Alejandra is almost as stupid as JJ's hate against Medina. (Or as my contempt against Elsa. :) The fact that she's a good girl and I should like them makes it worse. Every time I see that mosca muerta I'd like to slap her... Or the writer for creating such a lifeless character.)
aribeth.maybe@takes.this.show.too.seriously.com :))
the only one among them who actually has lived in an orphanage
We have no proof of that - her mother died later and I always guessed she was taken care of by her relatives.
Hire someone to adopt her???? WTF? Not cool.
Or maybe ask David and Gaby? Leonardo? Fausto? Abelardo? She didn't even give him time to find a reasonable solution. I would've preferred her to say "Look, guys, I'll adopt Caramelo because her future is at stake and when you manage to solve your problems we'll discuss the custody again. If she wants me she'll stay with me if she wants you she'll stay with you. Or we could ask for shared custody. Just don't panick, everything will be fine." But not, she looked at the desperate, crying men and practically said "I'll take Caramelo forever because you suck and JJ and his girlfriend don't deserve her."
Bravo, great sense of diplomacy. It reminded me of her early quarrels with JJ when she didn't say "Come on, man, don't be so irrational. If you don't want to be my boyfriend then please don't be so jealous. You have your own life, too. Yes, you heard well, I said boyfriend. I love you, you idiot. I. LOVE. YOU. Understood? LOVE YOU!!!" But every time they quarreled she just kept bickering about that vieja Alejandra. And naturally pumpkinhead JJ, who has no sense for subtlety, could never understand her feelings.
What JJ said her was hurtful and unjust but he was desperate, angry and he didn't use his brain. And she deserved it for her previous comment. Yeah, Elsa can insult Alejandra and she can say that she surely wouldn't love an adopted child but nobody is allowed to say the same about her because she's the role model of mothers. Sorry, Elsita, your hate against Alejandra is almost as stupid as JJ's hate against Medina. (Or as my contempt against Elsa. :) The fact that she's a good girl and I should like them makes it worse. Every time I see that mosca muerta I'd like to slap her... Or the writer for creating such a lifeless character.)
aribeth.maybe@takes.this.show.too.seriously.com :))
But she never harps on it the way JJ is always harping on how life has been unjust to him.
Because she's a secondary character with five lines in every third episode while JJ is the protagonist and his imprisonment is one of the most important elements of the script. :)
Because she's a secondary character with five lines in every third episode while JJ is the protagonist and his imprisonment is one of the most important elements of the script. :)
Jeri, thanks for the links.
The title? Amazing.
I must sheepishly admit that it appears I dozed off for the critical scenes of what transpired regarding Caramelo.
xint, Leo and Juli were so sweet and loving! Simply lovely to watch.
I read both of your insightful comments Vivi and Aribeth. Your arguments are compelling. Solid, heartfelt reasoning with differing conclusions.
Isn't it marvelous that this show has provoked such passionate feelings?? We love these characters and the bottom line is that we want them to be happy even though we might not agree on how things will turn out.
I can't wait to read your summary Aribeth. I'm with you - I'm taking this perhaps a tad too seriously myself but it's simply a tribute to how well written and engaging this is.
Happy Friday all!
Diana
The title? Amazing.
I must sheepishly admit that it appears I dozed off for the critical scenes of what transpired regarding Caramelo.
xint, Leo and Juli were so sweet and loving! Simply lovely to watch.
I read both of your insightful comments Vivi and Aribeth. Your arguments are compelling. Solid, heartfelt reasoning with differing conclusions.
Isn't it marvelous that this show has provoked such passionate feelings?? We love these characters and the bottom line is that we want them to be happy even though we might not agree on how things will turn out.
I can't wait to read your summary Aribeth. I'm with you - I'm taking this perhaps a tad too seriously myself but it's simply a tribute to how well written and engaging this is.
Happy Friday all!
Diana
Permalink posted by 
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 8:32:00 AM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 8:32:00 AM EST
Yes, that last scene. Terrible!
I say we reserve Adolfo the hottest suite in hell :) Blech.
Diana
I say we reserve Adolfo the hottest suite in hell :) Blech.
Diana
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 9:16:00 AM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 9:16:00 AM EST
Jeri, thanks for posting a header for our comments, and the youtube links. I just recently rewatched Kramer vs Kramer, incredible movie. Aribeth, we await your recap.
Yesterday I commended Ale for making a good suggestion in a custody situation, hire a lawyer, but I stopped short of saying that she was beginning to care for Caramelo in a motherly way, she doesn't. JJ's big, loud accusation of Elsa was that she would love a biological child more than Caramelo. Elsa was very hurt and angry because that's simply not true and was mean spirited as well. JJ is in a bind right now. Ale, the love of his life(mostly physical!), states out loud that she only wants biological children and we see that she has little maternal interest in Caramelo. If loving Caramelo is so important to JJ, what will Ale's true feelings do to their relationship. Ale is not very good at hiding her emotions.
Wow, that was some telenovela episode.
Yesterday I commended Ale for making a good suggestion in a custody situation, hire a lawyer, but I stopped short of saying that she was beginning to care for Caramelo in a motherly way, she doesn't. JJ's big, loud accusation of Elsa was that she would love a biological child more than Caramelo. Elsa was very hurt and angry because that's simply not true and was mean spirited as well. JJ is in a bind right now. Ale, the love of his life(mostly physical!), states out loud that she only wants biological children and we see that she has little maternal interest in Caramelo. If loving Caramelo is so important to JJ, what will Ale's true feelings do to their relationship. Ale is not very good at hiding her emotions.
Wow, that was some telenovela episode.
Gawd, I felt so sorry for David; what in the world made Adolfo so evil? His own father?
Caramelo seems really happy to go live with Elsa; glad about that.
Caramelo seems really happy to go live with Elsa; glad about that.
Thank for the comments! :) 70% is done.
Vivi:
While JJ has been surly about letting Elsa come to the house to see Caramelo
But he never forbid Elsa to meet Caramelo, he just felt uncomfortable in her presence. I bet Elsa will be just as surly when JJ will show up at her flat every second day. A day before her engagement she looked at hugging-giggling JJ and Alejandra so desperately that I'm not sure she's over him yet. And I bet after a few quarrels JJ will lose his non existing parental rights. For the sake of the kid, of course.
Did wardrobe put one of Bertha's skirts on Elsa accidentally???
LOL, I was wondering about that, too! :) But it looked fabulous on Silvia.
Speaking of wardrobes, I like Dora's new outfit. However, please someone force that woman to tell the truth. "I'm afraid of Adolfo, I'm afraid of Adolfo, I let him imprison an innocent man and now I don't help that wretched guy because I'm afraid of Adolfo!" Geez.
The Paula/Juli scene was so cute. Loved when Paulita sang yo si sé quien es (I do know who he is) and pointed at Leo. Or when she sang yo si sé cómo se llama (I know what's his name) - to which Julieta responded tu no sabes nada (you don't know anything).
Come on, Alejandra, don't be stupid. You've learnt how to accept and appreciate Asunción, you could learn how to raise a kid who isn't yours, too. As for accusations - what Elsa was cruel, too. She said Ale is unable to love an adopted kid? Why? Because she stole JJ from her, I mean, because "she's an arrogant ice queen". But I think Alejandra is simply afraid of the thought. She spent her life building her career and it's clear she isn't ready for having kids yet. Either adopted or biological ones. She has to learn a few more lessons of life.
And why would she love Cara in a motherly way? She hardly even knows that kid, they've spent maybe for hours together. Elsa didn't fall in love with her at the first day, either.
Vivi:
While JJ has been surly about letting Elsa come to the house to see Caramelo
But he never forbid Elsa to meet Caramelo, he just felt uncomfortable in her presence. I bet Elsa will be just as surly when JJ will show up at her flat every second day. A day before her engagement she looked at hugging-giggling JJ and Alejandra so desperately that I'm not sure she's over him yet. And I bet after a few quarrels JJ will lose his non existing parental rights. For the sake of the kid, of course.
Did wardrobe put one of Bertha's skirts on Elsa accidentally???
LOL, I was wondering about that, too! :) But it looked fabulous on Silvia.
Speaking of wardrobes, I like Dora's new outfit. However, please someone force that woman to tell the truth. "I'm afraid of Adolfo, I'm afraid of Adolfo, I let him imprison an innocent man and now I don't help that wretched guy because I'm afraid of Adolfo!" Geez.
The Paula/Juli scene was so cute. Loved when Paulita sang yo si sé quien es (I do know who he is) and pointed at Leo. Or when she sang yo si sé cómo se llama (I know what's his name) - to which Julieta responded tu no sabes nada (you don't know anything).
Come on, Alejandra, don't be stupid. You've learnt how to accept and appreciate Asunción, you could learn how to raise a kid who isn't yours, too. As for accusations - what Elsa was cruel, too. She said Ale is unable to love an adopted kid? Why? Because she stole JJ from her, I mean, because "she's an arrogant ice queen". But I think Alejandra is simply afraid of the thought. She spent her life building her career and it's clear she isn't ready for having kids yet. Either adopted or biological ones. She has to learn a few more lessons of life.
And why would she love Cara in a motherly way? She hardly even knows that kid, they've spent maybe for hours together. Elsa didn't fall in love with her at the first day, either.
Thank you Jeri for the links.
Good episode. At least Caramelo will be with Elsa whom she sees as a mother figure. As I have said before, I just don't want to see a scene where Caramelo is taken away by the social worker crying and screaming. I want to spared that. If Elsa adopts Caramelo, why can't she move in with JJ and Limon. Poor Asuncion he will really feel Caramelo's absence in the house.
I wonder if it will ever be revealed who Caramelo's real parents are?
What did the psych ask/say to Carlos about Adolfo that made him tear up?
Horrible scene with Adolfo and David. Really low.
Margaret
Good episode. At least Caramelo will be with Elsa whom she sees as a mother figure. As I have said before, I just don't want to see a scene where Caramelo is taken away by the social worker crying and screaming. I want to spared that. If Elsa adopts Caramelo, why can't she move in with JJ and Limon. Poor Asuncion he will really feel Caramelo's absence in the house.
I wonder if it will ever be revealed who Caramelo's real parents are?
What did the psych ask/say to Carlos about Adolfo that made him tear up?
Horrible scene with Adolfo and David. Really low.
Margaret
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 10:32:00 AM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 10:32:00 AM EST
Margaret, I also wonder who Caramelo's parents are.
And I wonder how Elsa would be an improvement legally over the men: she's single. Why would social services find that acceptable?
They haven't got that far yet, but Elsa is going to have to marry Mauricio before social services lets her adopt.
And that will blow the top of Juan José's head right off, with his unreasoning possessiveness.
Last night when he was seriously considering what would obviously be kidnapping, I had to shake my head. Is there no end to this man's stupidity?
Does anybody but me find Juan José's lack of smarts unattractive? When Alejandra had to yell at him not to commit that crime and wind up back in jail, I could only wonder why she finds him attractive, despite his physique.
I may like them, but ultimately stupid men do not appeal to me. They are nothing but trouble. Gawd, I was so angry at him for being an idiot. Help me, please.
And I wonder how Elsa would be an improvement legally over the men: she's single. Why would social services find that acceptable?
They haven't got that far yet, but Elsa is going to have to marry Mauricio before social services lets her adopt.
And that will blow the top of Juan José's head right off, with his unreasoning possessiveness.
Last night when he was seriously considering what would obviously be kidnapping, I had to shake my head. Is there no end to this man's stupidity?
Does anybody but me find Juan José's lack of smarts unattractive? When Alejandra had to yell at him not to commit that crime and wind up back in jail, I could only wonder why she finds him attractive, despite his physique.
I may like them, but ultimately stupid men do not appeal to me. They are nothing but trouble. Gawd, I was so angry at him for being an idiot. Help me, please.
Aribeth, on our LVO custody "battle," oddly enough, like a professional debater, I think I could argue either side, JJ or Elsa. If I had my preference, like someone posted the other day, sometimes a good mother can be a man, I'd pick Limon and therefore JJ and Ale. These are just my casual observations on the two women..... Elsa, while she isn't as animated and fun as Ale, is more maternalistic. If you push a baby in a stroller through a park, some people stop and goo goo and others push by. Elsa would stop and Ale would push by. I agree with you, Ale needs to learn, she is basically a kind person. I think we see the relationship between JJ and Elsa differently. He seems more aggressively mean to me. I erased my tape of the episode, I'll use Jeri's youtube links later today to re-watch, I want to see their fight again, maybe I'm wrong. I thought Elsa took the higher road, especially when she told Cara that she could see both JJ and Limon, smoothing over the fight. No matter, at least the whole situation is real not ridiculous novela pablum.
Jeri, I'm with you on JJ and posted early on that he was the dimmest bulb in the LVO chandelier. He needs to start immediately with humongous doses of ginkgo-biloba, maybe that would help!!!!! I quit FELS, but didn't EY play a dumb guy in that too?
Margaret, I agree with you, horrible scene with Adolfo and David.
Margaret, I agree with you, horrible scene with Adolfo and David.
Ready! :)
Jeri:
I don't know, at the beginning he was much smarter. I was so happy to see EY in a nice role after DA, FELS, CS and Te amaré en silencio - his complete telenovela filmography from the last decade, but the writer turn him into a possessive manchild. Again, again and again. In the '80s and '90s he had hundred times better roles.
However, JJ had to do something and was in an awful trap. That was the first idea that came into his mond and who knows if he would've been able to fulfill it.
Sandy:
n our LVO custody "battle," oddly enough, like a professional debater, I think I could argue either side, JJ or Elsa
Oh yes. :) If I wasn't fed up with Elsa I also could argue on her side, because in this case everyone is right. JJ and Limón want to keep the kid, Elsa want to give her a home and wants to fulfill Caramelo's wish. They all love her and want the best for her.
I also agree that JJ's behaviour is very rude and agressive, but I can't honestly side with Elsa either (though normally that's what I'd do), because she has a passive-agressive way that I don't like. She always manage to end up as the victim who did everything to smooth the situation but no matter what she does evil people always hurt her. Pff.
Jeri:
I don't know, at the beginning he was much smarter. I was so happy to see EY in a nice role after DA, FELS, CS and Te amaré en silencio - his complete telenovela filmography from the last decade, but the writer turn him into a possessive manchild. Again, again and again. In the '80s and '90s he had hundred times better roles.
However, JJ had to do something and was in an awful trap. That was the first idea that came into his mond and who knows if he would've been able to fulfill it.
Sandy:
n our LVO custody "battle," oddly enough, like a professional debater, I think I could argue either side, JJ or Elsa
Oh yes. :) If I wasn't fed up with Elsa I also could argue on her side, because in this case everyone is right. JJ and Limón want to keep the kid, Elsa want to give her a home and wants to fulfill Caramelo's wish. They all love her and want the best for her.
I also agree that JJ's behaviour is very rude and agressive, but I can't honestly side with Elsa either (though normally that's what I'd do), because she has a passive-agressive way that I don't like. She always manage to end up as the victim who did everything to smooth the situation but no matter what she does evil people always hurt her. Pff.
Back from Baltimore. Great discussion!
Aribeth- In the conversation ont he couch Elsa actually says I won't let them put Cara in an orphanage like they did to ME. It was very quick, so you might not have caught it and it was in the heat of the argument. At the end of the day, Cara wants to be with Elsa. That's what counts. And there is not time for JJ and Ale to dvelop their relationship to the point of deciding if they want to get married, have bio kids and/or adopt. They just aren't there yet in their relationship and I don't think it would be fair to Ale and anyone else to ask them to do that at this stage. But Elsa is willing, able, and has a preestablished relationship with Cara. There is no time to waste here on what ifs and whens.
The social worker didn't seem to have a problem with JJ or Limon being single, so I don't see why Elsa can't be single and adopt. The problem with Limon was a lack of education and the proper paperwork and certificates to prove that. The problem with JJ was his priors. Either one of them could have been an option if not for those issues. But that's how things are. Now they need to go to the best plan- Plan B, which is Elsa. They need to suck it up and stop thinking about these crazy schemes that could make them both end up in jail and Caramelo in an orphanage.
Aribeth- In the conversation ont he couch Elsa actually says I won't let them put Cara in an orphanage like they did to ME. It was very quick, so you might not have caught it and it was in the heat of the argument. At the end of the day, Cara wants to be with Elsa. That's what counts. And there is not time for JJ and Ale to dvelop their relationship to the point of deciding if they want to get married, have bio kids and/or adopt. They just aren't there yet in their relationship and I don't think it would be fair to Ale and anyone else to ask them to do that at this stage. But Elsa is willing, able, and has a preestablished relationship with Cara. There is no time to waste here on what ifs and whens.
The social worker didn't seem to have a problem with JJ or Limon being single, so I don't see why Elsa can't be single and adopt. The problem with Limon was a lack of education and the proper paperwork and certificates to prove that. The problem with JJ was his priors. Either one of them could have been an option if not for those issues. But that's how things are. Now they need to go to the best plan- Plan B, which is Elsa. They need to suck it up and stop thinking about these crazy schemes that could make them both end up in jail and Caramelo in an orphanage.
OK, last post for awhile, I have to get some stuff done!!!
Aribeth, yes, Elsa has a strong passive-aggressive way about her. It is something about her facial expressions and body language as well as her personality. Is it the character or the actress or both? It is hard to tell. Aribeth, I wish you had been with Caray during Sorti, we had death-defying discussions on the "evils" of passive aggression. (MJ's father!) Ha!
Aribeth, yes, Elsa has a strong passive-aggressive way about her. It is something about her facial expressions and body language as well as her personality. Is it the character or the actress or both? It is hard to tell. Aribeth, I wish you had been with Caray during Sorti, we had death-defying discussions on the "evils" of passive aggression. (MJ's father!) Ha!
Jeri: Wonderful recap of a very intense episode.
I can see both sides from the Elsa and JJ fight too. I don't think either of them are perfect and both have a mean side sometimes but they are both good people. And yes, Elsa didn't think of another way to go about the situation than adopting Caramelo and that was hurtful for the guys but she was just informed of a desperate situation and she became desperate too so I can cut her some slack for her hurtful words like I will cut JJ slack for his hurtful words.
However, I do think Caramelo staying with Elsa is the best thing for right now, at least to avoid Caramelo having been sent to an orphanage. Jeri there's not a problem with Elsa being signle as long as she can prove that she earns enough to sustain her.
On a side note, it's interesting to me that JJ did his military service apparently since it has been speculated that he was 19 when he was framed of the maid's murder. That means that he had to stay the whole year he was 18 in Veracruz and spent only a few months in DF before being sent to ail. How didn't he get lost when he got out? How did he find Elsa's appartment so easily? I feel like Mexico City is endless.
I also like the development of Leo and Julieta's romance and I like that his daughter likes Juli. I think this novela has the sweetest kids ever.
Jarocha
I can see both sides from the Elsa and JJ fight too. I don't think either of them are perfect and both have a mean side sometimes but they are both good people. And yes, Elsa didn't think of another way to go about the situation than adopting Caramelo and that was hurtful for the guys but she was just informed of a desperate situation and she became desperate too so I can cut her some slack for her hurtful words like I will cut JJ slack for his hurtful words.
However, I do think Caramelo staying with Elsa is the best thing for right now, at least to avoid Caramelo having been sent to an orphanage. Jeri there's not a problem with Elsa being signle as long as she can prove that she earns enough to sustain her.
On a side note, it's interesting to me that JJ did his military service apparently since it has been speculated that he was 19 when he was framed of the maid's murder. That means that he had to stay the whole year he was 18 in Veracruz and spent only a few months in DF before being sent to ail. How didn't he get lost when he got out? How did he find Elsa's appartment so easily? I feel like Mexico City is endless.
I also like the development of Leo and Julieta's romance and I like that his daughter likes Juli. I think this novela has the sweetest kids ever.
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 11:38:00 AM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 11:38:00 AM EST
Jeri: Yes, I posted too late and I didn't think you read my comment.
I'm about to check out Aribeth's summary but I'll come back later in the day. Hopefully not too late today too.
Jarocha
I'm about to check out Aribeth's summary but I'll come back later in the day. Hopefully not too late today too.
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 12:01:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 12:01:00 PM EST
P.S. Sandy: "...humongous doses of ginkgo-biloba..." LOL! Thanks; appreciate the sympathy.
Ok, I thought I remembered from LFMB that it was something new that a single person could adopt a child and only in difficult circumstances. Is that not true any more?
Ok, I thought I remembered from LFMB that it was something new that a single person could adopt a child and only in difficult circumstances. Is that not true any more?
P.P.S: Ok, thanks, Jarocha.
Just for (anyone's) info, I still have all the LVO comments sections on e-mail notify.
So if anyone posts a question or comment even from Episode 001, it will reach me, thanks to the magic of blog software. ;-)
Just for (anyone's) info, I still have all the LVO comments sections on e-mail notify.
So if anyone posts a question or comment even from Episode 001, it will reach me, thanks to the magic of blog software. ;-)
Aribeth- I love that you captured that proud look on David's face as he watched Gabi tell off Yolanda on the phone. He was loving every fiesty moment. Leo also admired Juli's fiestiness when she said to wouldn't let it stop her if her dad didn't approve of their relationship. It was funny watching Leo be the nervous, stuttering one, for once, as he aksed Faustiago for permission to court Juli. I loved your description of that moment. :)
I think Leo will now be able to make the link between Garnica and Adolfo as Ramon confirmed he was the lawyer for the guys caught with the smuggling ring.
I think Leo will now be able to make the link between Garnica and Adolfo as Ramon confirmed he was the lawyer for the guys caught with the smuggling ring.
Thanks, Jeri!
The e-mail notify is the best thing on blogspot. However, I commented on STUD a few times and forgot to turn off the subscription... Every time I logged into my mailbox and saw I got new letters from Caray I thought "oh great, another comment on CS/LVO" I had to realize "oh no, it's about STUD and Fernando's ultimate hotness again". :)
I was also so proud at Gaby when she told Yolanda where to go with her fairytales. :) And what about the first meeting of Leonardo and Medina? Definitely too much gorgeousness to bear.
Jarocha - from yesterday:
I'm sad JJ won't keep his beach look in DF. EY has an odd head shape and the way his hair is naturally fits him much better than the gel he uses.
I completely agree. He should never gel his hair.
Sandy:
It is something about her facial expressions and body language as well as her personality. Is it the character or the actress or both?
The actress seems to be the same in every telenovela so I say it's both. Those lines combined with Silvia's voice and facial expressions = Aribeth turns into a berserker and her head explodes. :) I imagined a scenario in which Bibelot Mansur (Mina) played Elsa and Silvia played Mina and I liked it. Ooor, imagine Margarita Magana (Bertha) and her hundred wild faces as Elsa. It'd be legendary.
The e-mail notify is the best thing on blogspot. However, I commented on STUD a few times and forgot to turn off the subscription... Every time I logged into my mailbox and saw I got new letters from Caray I thought "oh great, another comment on CS/LVO" I had to realize "oh no, it's about STUD and Fernando's ultimate hotness again". :)
I was also so proud at Gaby when she told Yolanda where to go with her fairytales. :) And what about the first meeting of Leonardo and Medina? Definitely too much gorgeousness to bear.
Jarocha - from yesterday:
I'm sad JJ won't keep his beach look in DF. EY has an odd head shape and the way his hair is naturally fits him much better than the gel he uses.
I completely agree. He should never gel his hair.
Sandy:
It is something about her facial expressions and body language as well as her personality. Is it the character or the actress or both?
The actress seems to be the same in every telenovela so I say it's both. Those lines combined with Silvia's voice and facial expressions = Aribeth turns into a berserker and her head explodes. :) I imagined a scenario in which Bibelot Mansur (Mina) played Elsa and Silvia played Mina and I liked it. Ooor, imagine Margarita Magana (Bertha) and her hundred wild faces as Elsa. It'd be legendary.
Aribeth: This was completely enveloping and gripping. Your recap was sensational as were the pictures.
You wrote this from your head but even more so from your heart. An excellent, passionate recap. Thank you.
Despite the serious and heartbreaking nature of this episode I laughed at: "JJ’s newest Nobel prized idea" and "pumpkinhead".
I'm souring on almost everyone who has potential custody rights. Selfish, hurtful, immature, the list goes on and on. Sandy, I think you nailed the relationship between Ale and Juan: "Ale, the love of his life(mostly physical!)". Yes. The fact that she can't open her heart up to Caramelo is disturbing. But, in terms of complete honesty, I'm not an Ale fan. I think Elsa (despite her issues with Juan) is more nurturing and loving. So, I think the best place for her is with Elsa. But just for now. Despite Caramelo's love for the men in her life, children ache and yearn for their mothers.
Jeri: "Does anybody but me find Juan José's lack of smarts unattractive?" Yes, yes, yes. I think this is my least favorite character I've ever seen him play. Handsome, dashing - yes, but that will only get you so far.
Ahh David. I hope your therapy progresses quickly so you can put a powerful lot of whup ass on Adolfo.
Diana
You wrote this from your head but even more so from your heart. An excellent, passionate recap. Thank you.
Despite the serious and heartbreaking nature of this episode I laughed at: "JJ’s newest Nobel prized idea" and "pumpkinhead".
I'm souring on almost everyone who has potential custody rights. Selfish, hurtful, immature, the list goes on and on. Sandy, I think you nailed the relationship between Ale and Juan: "Ale, the love of his life(mostly physical!)". Yes. The fact that she can't open her heart up to Caramelo is disturbing. But, in terms of complete honesty, I'm not an Ale fan. I think Elsa (despite her issues with Juan) is more nurturing and loving. So, I think the best place for her is with Elsa. But just for now. Despite Caramelo's love for the men in her life, children ache and yearn for their mothers.
Jeri: "Does anybody but me find Juan José's lack of smarts unattractive?" Yes, yes, yes. I think this is my least favorite character I've ever seen him play. Handsome, dashing - yes, but that will only get you so far.
Ahh David. I hope your therapy progresses quickly so you can put a powerful lot of whup ass on Adolfo.
Diana
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 12:34:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 12:34:00 PM EST
Vivi:
In the conversation ont he couch Elsa actually says I won't let them put Cara in an orphanage like they did to ME.
Oh, thanks! :)
There's one more thing I don't understand. In one scene JJ said okay, Elsa could adopt the kid. It was his own idea, if I remember well nobody had said him "hey, JuanJo, give Cara to Elsa". But in the next scene he was so outraged at the idea as if he heard it for the first time.
Que?
Excuse me, dear writers. I love you work - both Rendón's original Mario - Fausto - Gaby - David and whathisname's new Elsa - Alejandra - Juan José - Caramelo - Asunción storylines but sometimes you pull an Abud.
In the conversation ont he couch Elsa actually says I won't let them put Cara in an orphanage like they did to ME.
Oh, thanks! :)
There's one more thing I don't understand. In one scene JJ said okay, Elsa could adopt the kid. It was his own idea, if I remember well nobody had said him "hey, JuanJo, give Cara to Elsa". But in the next scene he was so outraged at the idea as if he heard it for the first time.
Que?
Excuse me, dear writers. I love you work - both Rendón's original Mario - Fausto - Gaby - David and whathisname's new Elsa - Alejandra - Juan José - Caramelo - Asunción storylines but sometimes you pull an Abud.
Excellent recap Aribeth. So for now JJ and Asuncion have to loose custody of Caramelo. I wish JJ and Elsa could be more civil to each other. Now that she's engaged to Mauricio, Elsa shouldn't still be jealous of Alex.
I'm really curious how the letter situation will be resolved that can help clear JJ's name and now Asuncion will have to learn how to read.
Adolfo is evil. Now he's placed another hit on Mario and then literally kicks David while he's down. I hope they let Leo know that happened. Maybe Zaida will spill about the murder of Garnica. That is of course if Adolfo doesn't decide to have her silenced as well.
I'm really curious how the letter situation will be resolved that can help clear JJ's name and now Asuncion will have to learn how to read.
Adolfo is evil. Now he's placed another hit on Mario and then literally kicks David while he's down. I hope they let Leo know that happened. Maybe Zaida will spill about the murder of Garnica. That is of course if Adolfo doesn't decide to have her silenced as well.
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 1:11:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 1:11:00 PM EST
Oh I forgot to mention. Loved Leo formally asking Fausto if he could court Juli. That's rare nowadays.
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 1:12:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 1:12:00 PM EST
Aribeth- I know. That was so weird. That's why it seemed to me like it was just automatic reflex to react negatively to anything Elsa says. He came up with the idea first (although no one told Elsa). But as soon as Elsa makes that exact same suggestion...BOOM, negative reaction. I think the two of them need to see a relationship shrink together to get past these negative feeling they have for each other and to learn how to treat each other and each other's significant other.
So can anyone guess what Carlos' answer to the question is? Does he love his father? It seems to me he does, otherwise his father's rejection and low opinion of him wouldn't matter to him.
For example.
Oh, btw, I keep meaning to mention: there's a rumor that Destilando Amor will replay after LVO.
LVO is scheduled to go off about Monday, March 7.
Oh, btw, I keep meaning to mention: there's a rumor that Destilando Amor will replay after LVO.
LVO is scheduled to go off about Monday, March 7.
Vivi, those situation seem to me to be love/hate. They want to love them but are too hurt. I remember (Miss America) Marilyn Van Derbur said first she loved her dad, then she hated him, after 13 years of incest.
But that was so cool and unexpected to see Carlos go to a therapist. This show just amazes me. I like that character anyway, so I will be looking forward to what he says.
I just realized this morning that Marco Méndez reminds me of Jeffrey Hunter.
But that was so cool and unexpected to see Carlos go to a therapist. This show just amazes me. I like that character anyway, so I will be looking forward to what he says.
I just realized this morning that Marco Méndez reminds me of Jeffrey Hunter.
Carlos, scoot over on that couch because I know two people who need therapy more than you do. Couples therapy for Juan and Elsa to solve whatever undercurrent feelings are causing so much rancor which is unhealthy for Caramelo and J J for intensive therapy to solve his venganza. And, maybe, trust issues since he rejected Mauricio, Leo and the lawyer who can help with Caramelo's case who are all honest and competent people. And J J needs help with his impulsive behavior which makes him rash and rude.
My too cents...if we are considering Caramelo's welfare, nuturing Elsa is the one. Hopefully, Mauricio will understand that Limon should be allowed to live with them. Elsa can continue to work with Mauricio and Limon can continue to care for Cara. Mauricio's an architect, he can add a mother-in-law suite to the house. Then J J and Ale will have the whole hpuse to themselves. At least, Ale was honest with herself and Mina in knowing she isn't willing to adopt Caramelo. It's up to Juan to decide if he finds this acceptable for their relationship or not. Love all the different insights and points of view as in most aspects of life.
GinCA
My too cents...if we are considering Caramelo's welfare, nuturing Elsa is the one. Hopefully, Mauricio will understand that Limon should be allowed to live with them. Elsa can continue to work with Mauricio and Limon can continue to care for Cara. Mauricio's an architect, he can add a mother-in-law suite to the house. Then J J and Ale will have the whole hpuse to themselves. At least, Ale was honest with herself and Mina in knowing she isn't willing to adopt Caramelo. It's up to Juan to decide if he finds this acceptable for their relationship or not. Love all the different insights and points of view as in most aspects of life.
GinCA
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 2:11:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 2:11:00 PM EST
Good discussion everyone. Just my .02, but I think there are two ways of looking at the custody - what is in the best interests of the child and what the *social workers* think is in the best interests of the child. They are not always one and the same.
Caramelo would best be served by staying where she is with JJ and Limon *and* Elsa. But since Pumpkinhead and Elsa can't be in the same room together, that's not going to happen. JJ and Ale isn't possible either; Ale has already said she isn't interested and trying to force the issue will only cause resentment and bad feelings. Their relationship hasn't always been stable either. A social worker would notice that.
Caramelo loves Elsa and wants to be with her. Elsa has demonstrated that she loves Caramelo and more importantly she has shown responsibility for her. Remember the times JJ called Elsa to come to the hotel, then promptly left to be with Ale? JJ is still a kid himself and is very self-centered.
I think Elsa and Mauricio have a very good relationship. Mauricio loves Caramelo too and she would be better off with them.
As far as Elsa denying JJ visitation, I honestly think if Caramelo went with Elsa and Mauricio, JJ would be the one who would avoid going to see her because he still resents Mauricio.
I can imagine Adolfo's assault on David will only make Dora more afraid to come forward for JJ.
Adolfo better hope Gabi doesn't come after him. She'll kick. his. ass.
Caramelo would best be served by staying where she is with JJ and Limon *and* Elsa. But since Pumpkinhead and Elsa can't be in the same room together, that's not going to happen. JJ and Ale isn't possible either; Ale has already said she isn't interested and trying to force the issue will only cause resentment and bad feelings. Their relationship hasn't always been stable either. A social worker would notice that.
Caramelo loves Elsa and wants to be with her. Elsa has demonstrated that she loves Caramelo and more importantly she has shown responsibility for her. Remember the times JJ called Elsa to come to the hotel, then promptly left to be with Ale? JJ is still a kid himself and is very self-centered.
I think Elsa and Mauricio have a very good relationship. Mauricio loves Caramelo too and she would be better off with them.
As far as Elsa denying JJ visitation, I honestly think if Caramelo went with Elsa and Mauricio, JJ would be the one who would avoid going to see her because he still resents Mauricio.
I can imagine Adolfo's assault on David will only make Dora more afraid to come forward for JJ.
Adolfo better hope Gabi doesn't come after him. She'll kick. his. ass.
Lord, two no too...polishing nails and typing.
GinCa
GinCa
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 2:20:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 2:20:00 PM EST
Caramelo had me in tears in her scene with Elsa when she was crying and wondering why Elsa and JJ can't be novios, and why Elsa can't be her mommy. You know, in another novela we wouldn't be so worried about this. Although the little kid would be heartbroken at the moment and so desperately want the galan and the girl to be together, we would all know that eventually they WOULD be together. But JJ and Elsa are never going to be together, and so for Caramelo's sake they will eventually both have to compromise. I can't even imagine what the final scenario will look like. There are so many options. But whatever it is will require JJ and Elsa to both grow. (not in height because they are both tall enough) :)
Lord again, how rude to not thank Aribeth for her wonderful recap and Jeri for the links. I think I'm too excited by all the comments. Thanks again.
GinCA
GinCA
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 2:34:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 2:34:00 PM EST
Aribeth - Thanks again for your
awesome summary and passionate debate! I loved the parallel pictures of Elsa and Caramelo and JJ & Limón. Still, I stand by
Elsa all the way. She too is human
(novela-wise)like everyone else and has endured much with her home situation and her brother's compounded problems.
I agree that the situation between her and JJ is a frustrating estrangement. He attempted to resolve it with the note he sent to Elsa and the meeting, but both of them seem paralyzed to resurrect
something new and improved.
RE - Adolfo - that scenario with David was positively brutal. As far as I can see, Adolfo has committed only a few decent acts in his life - one it seems was his rescuing of Yolanda from a horrible fate about which I have
been speculating but will withhold
my divinations.
I was stunned to see Carlos take the initiative to visit a psychiatrist; his confessions and self analyis were extremely painful
especially with the part of having no friends nor anyone to lean on.
I thought he might bring up Yolanda
but he did not. He truly feels
isolated, and his job is his only rock. He is struggling to survive.
I would like to know what adoption laws exist in Mexico for domestic adoptions. Of course, we are dealing with novela land where things can happen instantly. In
Cuidado, I believe a married couple
adopted an infant in about 2 days -
Bingo! Re foreign adoptions, it takes many months if not much longer. In 2008 I traveled to Ethiopia with a single daughter who adopted 2 sisters. That process took about 10 months, and that was very short. She needed to make only one trip over. Now
their process has been changed to 2 trips, and couples may (I'm not sure) get preferential treatment. In the US,there is usually a temporary foster care situation (not necessarily with the adoptive parent) before adoption. I would think Elsa might qualify as a foster mother as a first step.
Oh, well, this is not all real,
but the writers have done a great
job in getting us emotionally hooked.
I really need someone to give me details on the conversations with
JJ and Elsa and earlier when JJ asked Limón to call Elsa. I know he said that he did not want to talk to her. I played the video back, but could not get the key words. At the end Elsa lamented about something being thrown in the trash - was it a reference to where Caramelo was found and she vowed that she would not let her end up there again or did it refer
to the quality of the relationship between her and JJ, or what?
Many thanks.
Remember also that Elsa had just come away from the meeting where many of you thought that Ale had been arrogant, so this was still fresh in her mind when she referred to Ale as such. It was
an emergency situation; temperaments were flaring, and Elsa
did the quickest thing and probably most viable thing that came to mind to rectify the dilemma. And above all, Caramelo truly loves Elsa...that's a given.
It certainly is complicated.
Jeri,
I'm with you and others about
dumb men. I don't see JJ as a
fully grown man - just an overgrown
kid and not too bright at that.
He has money but is powerless with regard to wise decision making.
He definitely has a good heart with regard to Limón and Caramelo,
and loves them both dearly, but if
I were Ale, I would want a man
I could admire intellectually.
The money could not buy my love
and respect. WOW! Enough said!
Enjoyed tremendously all comments.
awesome summary and passionate debate! I loved the parallel pictures of Elsa and Caramelo and JJ & Limón. Still, I stand by
Elsa all the way. She too is human
(novela-wise)like everyone else and has endured much with her home situation and her brother's compounded problems.
I agree that the situation between her and JJ is a frustrating estrangement. He attempted to resolve it with the note he sent to Elsa and the meeting, but both of them seem paralyzed to resurrect
something new and improved.
RE - Adolfo - that scenario with David was positively brutal. As far as I can see, Adolfo has committed only a few decent acts in his life - one it seems was his rescuing of Yolanda from a horrible fate about which I have
been speculating but will withhold
my divinations.
I was stunned to see Carlos take the initiative to visit a psychiatrist; his confessions and self analyis were extremely painful
especially with the part of having no friends nor anyone to lean on.
I thought he might bring up Yolanda
but he did not. He truly feels
isolated, and his job is his only rock. He is struggling to survive.
I would like to know what adoption laws exist in Mexico for domestic adoptions. Of course, we are dealing with novela land where things can happen instantly. In
Cuidado, I believe a married couple
adopted an infant in about 2 days -
Bingo! Re foreign adoptions, it takes many months if not much longer. In 2008 I traveled to Ethiopia with a single daughter who adopted 2 sisters. That process took about 10 months, and that was very short. She needed to make only one trip over. Now
their process has been changed to 2 trips, and couples may (I'm not sure) get preferential treatment. In the US,there is usually a temporary foster care situation (not necessarily with the adoptive parent) before adoption. I would think Elsa might qualify as a foster mother as a first step.
Oh, well, this is not all real,
but the writers have done a great
job in getting us emotionally hooked.
I really need someone to give me details on the conversations with
JJ and Elsa and earlier when JJ asked Limón to call Elsa. I know he said that he did not want to talk to her. I played the video back, but could not get the key words. At the end Elsa lamented about something being thrown in the trash - was it a reference to where Caramelo was found and she vowed that she would not let her end up there again or did it refer
to the quality of the relationship between her and JJ, or what?
Many thanks.
Remember also that Elsa had just come away from the meeting where many of you thought that Ale had been arrogant, so this was still fresh in her mind when she referred to Ale as such. It was
an emergency situation; temperaments were flaring, and Elsa
did the quickest thing and probably most viable thing that came to mind to rectify the dilemma. And above all, Caramelo truly loves Elsa...that's a given.
It certainly is complicated.
Jeri,
I'm with you and others about
dumb men. I don't see JJ as a
fully grown man - just an overgrown
kid and not too bright at that.
He has money but is powerless with regard to wise decision making.
He definitely has a good heart with regard to Limón and Caramelo,
and loves them both dearly, but if
I were Ale, I would want a man
I could admire intellectually.
The money could not buy my love
and respect. WOW! Enough said!
Enjoyed tremendously all comments.
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 2:40:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 2:40:00 PM EST
Thank you Aribeth for the great recap.
So that's what the psych asked Carlos, if he loved his father. Oh dear, what a question. I think Carlos does love his father no matter how horrible Adolfo treats him.
I am also one that thinks that JJ comes accross as dopey and I don't find that attractive. He was different when in prison and more attractive to me. I have said this before but he reminds me of the Jethro character from Beverley Hillbillies. I think Ale is perfectly suited for him. She will be the brains in the family coz JJ sure won't be, lol. Sandy, laughed at your "he needs to start immediately with humongous doses of gingko-biloba". I personally think he is a lost cause in the brains department.
Sandy, I agree with your observations about Ale and Elsa. "Elsa would stop and goo goo and Ale would push by". There is nothing wrong with that, Ale is just not ready to be maternal as yet. When the time comes for her to have children I am sure she would be a great mother.
Vivi, thank you for clarifying that Elsa was is an orphanage and she doesn't want Caramelo to end up in one either.
Margaret
So that's what the psych asked Carlos, if he loved his father. Oh dear, what a question. I think Carlos does love his father no matter how horrible Adolfo treats him.
I am also one that thinks that JJ comes accross as dopey and I don't find that attractive. He was different when in prison and more attractive to me. I have said this before but he reminds me of the Jethro character from Beverley Hillbillies. I think Ale is perfectly suited for him. She will be the brains in the family coz JJ sure won't be, lol. Sandy, laughed at your "he needs to start immediately with humongous doses of gingko-biloba". I personally think he is a lost cause in the brains department.
Sandy, I agree with your observations about Ale and Elsa. "Elsa would stop and goo goo and Ale would push by". There is nothing wrong with that, Ale is just not ready to be maternal as yet. When the time comes for her to have children I am sure she would be a great mother.
Vivi, thank you for clarifying that Elsa was is an orphanage and she doesn't want Caramelo to end up in one either.
Margaret
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 2:42:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 2:42:00 PM EST
Vivi, in answer to your question: Yes, I think Carlos does love his father (only heaven knows why). God bless him, I think that's his reason for going to therapy. To analyze why and most importantly, how to survive and save himself in spite of it.
Diana
Diana
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 3:04:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 3:04:00 PM EST
Margaret- Your comment about JJ lacking in the brains department just brought this image of the Wizard of Oz to mind:
Caramelo= Dorothy in search of her home
Elsa= Glenda the Good Witch
JJ= Scarecrow in need of a brain
Limon= Lion in need of courage
Ale= Tin (Wo)Man in need of a heart
Social Worker= The Wicked Witch
:)
Caramelo= Dorothy in search of her home
Elsa= Glenda the Good Witch
JJ= Scarecrow in need of a brain
Limon= Lion in need of courage
Ale= Tin (Wo)Man in need of a heart
Social Worker= The Wicked Witch
:)
Vivi, the Wizard of Oz! Too funny (and true!).
I'm wondering if the sessions Carlos is having with the psychologist will bring up whatever Yolanda knows about Adolfo. I'll bet it's something Carlos saw as a child.
I'm wondering if the sessions Carlos is having with the psychologist will bring up whatever Yolanda knows about Adolfo. I'll bet it's something Carlos saw as a child.
Aribeth, great recap, “pumpkinhead” is a kinder, gentler way to describe our beloved galan, JJ! Your photos are incredible, Julie and Leo, Gabi and David, Carlos and the best ever....JJ vs Elsa, you nailed them all. Thanks so much!
Vivi, sweet and amazing comparison of the Wizard of Oz to LVO. I hope that after our much commented on and analyzed custody “battle” is solved, we see our little Dorothy, AKA Caramelo, sit up in bed and say, “There’s no place like home!” OK, that was a little corny, but I had to say it!!!!
I hate people who talk in superlatives, but, THIS WAS THE BEST COMMENT DAY EVER!
Vivi, sweet and amazing comparison of the Wizard of Oz to LVO. I hope that after our much commented on and analyzed custody “battle” is solved, we see our little Dorothy, AKA Caramelo, sit up in bed and say, “There’s no place like home!” OK, that was a little corny, but I had to say it!!!!
I hate people who talk in superlatives, but, THIS WAS THE BEST COMMENT DAY EVER!
Yeah, it was a strong episode. :)
Floridia:
At the end Elsa lamented about something being thrown in the trash
Elsa was talking about JJ's character and she said "el que ha cambiado eres tu, o alguien te ha llenado de basura el alma". You are the one who changed - or someone filled your heart/soul with trash.
Vivi: LOL!!!
Carlos surely loves his father.
Sandy:
“pumpkinhead” is a kinder, gentler way to describe our beloved galan
Well, normally I would've used the word asshole but since it's a decent blog I don't dare swear (much) in the recaps. ;)
His change was disappointing but I don't find him much worse or stupider than other TN galáns. Most of them were complete idiots/or smart BUT obsessed, jealous and insecure, et cetera, et cetera. Not many of them managed to win my complete respect - like Santo Juan del Fangirl Dreams from Corazón salvaje 1993 and Alejandro from El manantial did.
Floridia:
At the end Elsa lamented about something being thrown in the trash
Elsa was talking about JJ's character and she said "el que ha cambiado eres tu, o alguien te ha llenado de basura el alma". You are the one who changed - or someone filled your heart/soul with trash.
Vivi: LOL!!!
Carlos surely loves his father.
Sandy:
“pumpkinhead” is a kinder, gentler way to describe our beloved galan
Well, normally I would've used the word asshole but since it's a decent blog I don't dare swear (much) in the recaps. ;)
His change was disappointing but I don't find him much worse or stupider than other TN galáns. Most of them were complete idiots/or smart BUT obsessed, jealous and insecure, et cetera, et cetera. Not many of them managed to win my complete respect - like Santo Juan del Fangirl Dreams from Corazón salvaje 1993 and Alejandro from El manantial did.
Thanks, Aribeth for translating
the trash reference. I also did not get the comment that JJ said to Elsa about when she had her own children. How did he word it? Also,
how did you come to know Spanish so well?
Thanks, again
the trash reference. I also did not get the comment that JJ said to Elsa about when she had her own children. How did he word it? Also,
how did you come to know Spanish so well?
Thanks, again
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 8:33:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 8:33:00 PM EST
Great recap Aribeth! I'm glad you brought up Juan's position on Elsa adopting Caramelo and how it changed between scenes. I wonder if that was a mistake by the writer of if he indeed thought that was a reaction JJ might have with Elsa being the one proposing to adopt Caramelo. Sort of like a kid who won't make the bed because he was told to even though he thought about doing it before.
I love the pictures you added, they help illustrate the episode too. I love the last ones of JJ and Elsa and Adolfo and David. I'm sad for Carlos but I'm glad he is looking for help, my guess on why he didn't include Yolanda as someone he could trust is that unfortunately Yolanda has too close of a relationship with his father.
Jarocha
I love the pictures you added, they help illustrate the episode too. I love the last ones of JJ and Elsa and Adolfo and David. I'm sad for Carlos but I'm glad he is looking for help, my guess on why he didn't include Yolanda as someone he could trust is that unfortunately Yolanda has too close of a relationship with his father.
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 8:36:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 8:36:00 PM EST
Floridia- Here is the whole argument translated:
(Elsa enters room and asks why the boys are upset)
JJ: The social worker came and said we can’t adopt Cara.
Elsa: Because of the priors?
JJ: Yes. Because of the priors. They told me they’re going to put her in an orphanage (casa de hogar).
Elsa: No, no. No way. I’ll adopt her.
JJ: NO!
E: Why not?!
JJ: Because I don’t want it!! I don’t want “la nena” (the little one) taken from this house.
E: Either way she’s going to be taken from this house and put in an orphanage. It’s preferable that she go with me.
J: But don’t you already live with someone?! Don’t you have a boyfriend?!
E: That doesn’t have anything to do with Caramelo?!
J: How could it not?!
E: The little one loves me, and I love her too!
Limon: You’re going to take her from me?
E: No Asuncion. I’m not going to take her from you. You can see her as much as you want.
Limon: But, she’s always lived with me.
E: I know Asuncion. But what else can we do? Do you want to see the little one in an orphanage (internado), like where they took me?
JJ: We’ll do everything necessary, except YOU taking her. I’m going to pay someone to come live here to adopt the little one. I’ll do whatever it takes Limon. I promise you.
Limon: Who hermanito?
JJ: I don’t know. Alejandra! I’m willing to marry her right away so that we can adopt the little one.
E: But the issue here is the happiness of Caramelo! Alejandra is an arrogant young woman who doesn’t love the little one. Who knows if she’s going to marry you. And if she does, she’s going to want her own children. I’m sure she’s not going to want to adopt Caramelo!
JJ: And the same may be the case with you, or no?!! You’re not going to have kids with that other guy?! Eh!? And then what?! You’ll forget about the little one, right!
Elsa: Now I realize that you NEVER knew who I am. I wouldn’t do that. I am completely taken with the little one. Understand that! I love her as much as she loves me! The one that’s changed it you! Or someone’s filled your soul with garbage.
(Caramelo interrupts)
(Elsa enters room and asks why the boys are upset)
JJ: The social worker came and said we can’t adopt Cara.
Elsa: Because of the priors?
JJ: Yes. Because of the priors. They told me they’re going to put her in an orphanage (casa de hogar).
Elsa: No, no. No way. I’ll adopt her.
JJ: NO!
E: Why not?!
JJ: Because I don’t want it!! I don’t want “la nena” (the little one) taken from this house.
E: Either way she’s going to be taken from this house and put in an orphanage. It’s preferable that she go with me.
J: But don’t you already live with someone?! Don’t you have a boyfriend?!
E: That doesn’t have anything to do with Caramelo?!
J: How could it not?!
E: The little one loves me, and I love her too!
Limon: You’re going to take her from me?
E: No Asuncion. I’m not going to take her from you. You can see her as much as you want.
Limon: But, she’s always lived with me.
E: I know Asuncion. But what else can we do? Do you want to see the little one in an orphanage (internado), like where they took me?
JJ: We’ll do everything necessary, except YOU taking her. I’m going to pay someone to come live here to adopt the little one. I’ll do whatever it takes Limon. I promise you.
Limon: Who hermanito?
JJ: I don’t know. Alejandra! I’m willing to marry her right away so that we can adopt the little one.
E: But the issue here is the happiness of Caramelo! Alejandra is an arrogant young woman who doesn’t love the little one. Who knows if she’s going to marry you. And if she does, she’s going to want her own children. I’m sure she’s not going to want to adopt Caramelo!
JJ: And the same may be the case with you, or no?!! You’re not going to have kids with that other guy?! Eh!? And then what?! You’ll forget about the little one, right!
Elsa: Now I realize that you NEVER knew who I am. I wouldn’t do that. I am completely taken with the little one. Understand that! I love her as much as she loves me! The one that’s changed it you! Or someone’s filled your soul with garbage.
(Caramelo interrupts)
Vocab lesson: The difference between casa de hogar, huerfanato, and internado is very slight and they can be used interchangably. Saying casa de hogar is like saying putting someone in a "home". Orfanato has the direct link to the English word orphanage. But while a home or an orphange may or may not also have the orphans attending school on site, the internado (which can also mean boarding school) definitely also educates the orphans on site.
Vivi: fantastic translation!
Too bad Elsa didn't have the same experience in her orphanage that María Desamparada had in hers.
Jarocha
Too bad Elsa didn't have the same experience in her orphanage that María Desamparada had in hers.
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 11:02:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 11:02:00 PM EST
LOL Jarocha! Yes, Maria D. had the typical fairy tale experience in her internado with the nuns, just like all other novela heroines. Elsa didn't seem to have the same luck. :)
I guess that's what Elsa gets for not being a protagonist. My mom went to a private boarding school run by nuns during high school she says she wishes it would have been as nice as María Desamparada's internado.
Jarocha
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Friday, January 7, 2011 at 11:55:00 PM EST
: Friday, January 7, 2011 at 11:55:00 PM EST
Just in time, Vivi, before the next episode. Thank you so much!
That helps a great deal. You are a dream woman.
That helps a great deal. You are a dream woman.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 12:06:00 AM EST
: Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 12:06:00 AM EST
I think it's all about Mauricio. Juan José is such a jerk.
His first and best instinct was to rely on Elsa -- until he had time to think about her living with Mauricio.
That's what that sudden switch was about.
Then it looked like Mauricio was taking something ELSE that supposedly belonged to him. It's pure self interest.
I hate to say that, but what's left of Juan José. When he was in prison he had fewer alternatives and was being wronged.
It was natural to root for the underdog; but since he's been out, like Elsa said, it's clear his spirit's no more noble than most anybody else's.
His first and best instinct was to rely on Elsa -- until he had time to think about her living with Mauricio.
That's what that sudden switch was about.
Then it looked like Mauricio was taking something ELSE that supposedly belonged to him. It's pure self interest.
I hate to say that, but what's left of Juan José. When he was in prison he had fewer alternatives and was being wronged.
It was natural to root for the underdog; but since he's been out, like Elsa said, it's clear his spirit's no more noble than most anybody else's.
Jeri,
Very interesting analysis.
Do we know that Elsa moved in with Mauricio? JJ referred to that, but
he also glommed on that as soon as Caramelo slept over?
Post a Comment
Very interesting analysis.
Do we know that Elsa moved in with Mauricio? JJ referred to that, but
he also glommed on that as soon as Caramelo slept over?
Permalink posted by : Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 10:49:00 AM EST
: Saturday, January 8, 2011 at 10:49:00 AM EST
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