Tuesday, February 22, 2011
La Verdad Oculta #110: The spit hits the fan
Adolfo's beach-house goon backs off plugging terrified, gagged and tied Zaida between the eyes. At the penthouse, when Dante bullies Adolfo to let him interrogate Zaida about Garnica, Adolf stabs a gun in his face -- until he suddenly notices horrified Bertha entered behind him, stopped in her tracks by the sight.
As Bertha escapes to her room, Dante gets the drop on Adolfo and disarms him, exiting with Adolfo's pistol after promising to put a bullet in his heart one day. Upstairs terrified Bertha phones Alejandra at Mario's for help, but her sister assumes Bertha's making things up and that she had something to do with "Mario's" fall.
Alejandra hangs up on Bertha after ordering her out of their lives; and nearby David thinks that Bertha lured "Mario" to the staircase with the object of having him pushed over the rail. Alejandra wonders what could be keeping Juan Jose, while from his car Dante sets up a smuggling fall guy and orders that Elsa be sprung from jail.
Presently, Juan José appears at Mario's, reporting where he's been to Alejandra's flaring nostrils. Back in Bertha's room, she resorts to phoning and hysterically pleading with Carlos, who looks daggers even at her name on his caller ID. He scoffs that Adolfo would kill Bertha, nastily pointing out she's Adolfo's handy little pet now.
Carlos is spitefully glad she's finding out just what Adolfo's like; and he's not running over there to save her. She doesn't matter to him anymore; and what's more, Carlos jabs rudely that he's dating somebody much better and wiser, before he hangs up abruptly on Bertha's impassioned pleas.
At that moment, Adolfo enters Bertha's bedroom, locking them in, and jeers at Bertha for appealing to her Prince Charming for rescue. Adolfo roughly remonstrates with her, grabbing Bertha's arms -- and then her throat -- while she hyperventilates, grits her teeth and rivets her saucer-wide eyes on him.
She had no cause to worry; but Adolfo has trouble -- and she'd better not interfere! In Mario's office, with Alejandra suspicious and prodding, Juan José explains the situation with Zaida's letter and Elsa's release to her, David and "Mario." They all agree it was a dangerous mission, but Alejandra begrudges him a bit more.
At Bertha's, she's reduced to desperately screaming on bended knee at Adolfo's feet like a child for him to let her go. He points out regrettably that she indeed has no where to go: nobody believes her, nobody wants her. Pulling wailing Bertha to her feet, he earnestly contends she is irrevocably tied to him.
So upset she's almost drooling, Bertha desperately tries to convince Adolfo she wants nothing from him now, except to be released. But Adolfo has two options for her: she can stay with him; but if she decides to leave, she'd better go somewhere he'll never find her. Because if he does find her, he'll murder her.
Oddly regretful, Adolfo rips the phone out of the wall, grabs Bertha's cell and locks the door behind him, leaving Bertha shouting and begging on the floor within. Across town at Juan José's, Alejandra lets loose a jealous rage on Juan José that he still feels for Elsa and risked their love and everything to release Elsa from jail!
Juan José caves, moaning that he just wanted to rub something in Adolfo's face for once. But she's not forgiving him that easily and stalks upstairs in a huff. At Elsa's, Mauricio is just consoling Elsa over her horrible jail experience when Ulises enters and surprises them with news it was Zaida's letter that got her out, not the missing key.
At the internet cafe, Édgar and Valentín read in Garnica's account Adolfo's email to incognito Carmelo making an assignation with him that night at the Sagittarius. Adolfo knows he's not Garnica, but likes his gall and has a proposition. Édgar gets the bright idea to deep-six Carmelo by forwarding this double-crossing info on to Dante, naming Carmelo.
In the dining room at Mario's, David reminds Gabriela not to remark about Márta's murderer when she and Julieta go for the meeting with new sibling Carlos. Back at Elsa's, Ulises elaborates the events surrounding and contents of Zaida's letter to amazed Elsa and Mauricio.
Over at Dante's, he's just reading the damning email and planning Carmelo's demise when Juan José phones to meet at a very public place to exchange the real Zaida letter. In a restaurant, Julieta is hoping to Gabriela she won't slip the upsetting truth, when Carlos appears and plops down between his beautiful, forgiving sisters to learn all about them.
Downtown on a very public flying gangway arched over a cavernous busy commercial center, Juan José exchanges the real Zaida letter; and Dante observes Juan José is the only one ever treated him that way and lived, so there'd better not be a second occasion if Juan José knows what's good for him.
On the patio at Juan José's, Abelardo reveals Asunción's textbooks from the adult education institute to the kids, whereupon Chicles scandalizes them wondering with accompanying hand gesture if adult education means curvy adult teachers, too.
Subdued Zaida arrives at Adolfo's; and Dante phones to threaten if he doesn't get to interrogate her, too, that Adolfo will never see the authentic letter incriminating him. Back on Mario's patio, Abelardo assures Asunción the institute's materials are free and the only aim is his success, such as writing a heartfelt letter to Caramelo one day.
Elsa phones Juan José's, where snippy Alejandra facetiously congratulates her on exiting jail before passing the phone to Juan Jose, who upsets Elsa at first with news of Caramelo's latest plight; but soon she understands the situation and also thanks Juan José for using Zaida's letter.
But when she insists Juan José should turn the letter over to the police, he nastily retorts that neither she nor "that big-mouthed Mauricio" will report anything to the police, who will just censure him. He only used the letter to spring her from jail. She agrees and just wants to visit Caramelo.
Upon hanging up, Alejandra is not convinced by Juan José's assurance that Elsa is happy with "her boyfriend, Mauricio." At the penthouse, a tearful Zaida observes despite Adolfo's denial that it turns out the letter she wrote did indeed serve to spare her life.
Nevertheless, he insists she explain Garnica's death, which she does through a tearful, nightmare-like memory. Garnica cannot be alive; and after considering who could have had access to Garnica's things, they both conclude Édgar and Valentín could be behind the fake emails and blackmail. Adolfo's hiring a hacker to find the source.
Zaida is terrified to be sent to Dante's; and despite her romantic overtures, Adolfo's not in the mood and just insists he can forgive her if she feigns and convinces Dante that Garnica is still alive. Meanwhile Elsa visits Caramelo, who she observes doesn't seem to have missed her much.
But Elsa just wanted to see her anyway and know she's well; and after the current custody explanation from Asunción, sadly but generously agrees it seems to be what's best for Caramelo. At Carmelo's, he puts aside answering Juan José's difficult email requiring proof in favor of agreeing to Adolfo's invitation to meet.
At the internet cafe, the comely technical assistant helps Édgar and Valentín transfer a load of cash from Garnica's account to their "friend's" account in Houston; and she is so blown away by how rich they are that she falls all over herself making dates with them for herself and her friend -- and fails to suspect the rather dicey demeanor of the two thieves.
Unfortunately, the dates will have to wait until the next night -- because that same evening they have something better to do; a "business" appointment. That night, through the lens of someone's video camera, we see a big, black town car cruising in and out again of the Sagittarius parking deck.
Inside his office, frustrated Adolfo waits fruitlessly for "Silverio Rodriguez." Giving up, Adolfo exits to his car -- only to find a slumped Silverio in the back seat, staring forever off into space.
Labels: verdad
Comments:
<< Home
Aribeth and Vivi, your Thursday and Friday recaps were simply sensational - bravo! Amazingly written. The comments echoed your insightful, detail laden summaries. You both are the best!
I thought last night's episode was one of the saddest and most gripping to date. Once again, Jeri, your summary was pitch perfect. Cold cruelty was never better captured than: "Adolfo roughly remonstrates...grabbing Bertha's arms -- and then her throat -- while she hyperventilates, grits her teeth and rivets her saucer-wide eyes on him." Your words were the precise, mirror image of the raw fear, painful revelations and anger generated by that scene.
I also thought "Ale's flaring nostrils", "looks daggers" and "slumped Silverio in the back seat, staring forever off into space" were masterful.
Bertha and Zaida have been decimated and almost destroyed. Ahh Bertha, I could not help but be moved at your plight but Ale and Carlos feared you were only crying wolf. Zaida is among the walking dead, her trauma revealed in her glazed, desperate expression. Had Edgar not killed Susana, I would have hoped he could have escaped with Zaida so they could have gone onto a better life.
I was struck how several of our leading characters refuse to mature, continuing to act as petulant, immature children: Ale still jealous of Elsa and JJ still resentful of the marvelous Mauricio: "that big-mouthed Mauricio" - sigh. Really?
No honor among thieves and in fact now, all are against each other. Who will prevail? Polished Adolfo or Dante or street smart Édgar and Valentín? I cannot wait to find out.
Best moment was the awkward yet touching sib reunion of Gabi, Juli and Carlos. Loved when Carlos moved to the couch to sit between the girls. No one knew what to say but the hugs and kisses were genuine - a family at last. Perfectly played.
Jeri, thank you for another spectacular job. The picture of Adolfo and Bertha was so powerful.
Diana
I thought last night's episode was one of the saddest and most gripping to date. Once again, Jeri, your summary was pitch perfect. Cold cruelty was never better captured than: "Adolfo roughly remonstrates...grabbing Bertha's arms -- and then her throat -- while she hyperventilates, grits her teeth and rivets her saucer-wide eyes on him." Your words were the precise, mirror image of the raw fear, painful revelations and anger generated by that scene.
I also thought "Ale's flaring nostrils", "looks daggers" and "slumped Silverio in the back seat, staring forever off into space" were masterful.
Bertha and Zaida have been decimated and almost destroyed. Ahh Bertha, I could not help but be moved at your plight but Ale and Carlos feared you were only crying wolf. Zaida is among the walking dead, her trauma revealed in her glazed, desperate expression. Had Edgar not killed Susana, I would have hoped he could have escaped with Zaida so they could have gone onto a better life.
I was struck how several of our leading characters refuse to mature, continuing to act as petulant, immature children: Ale still jealous of Elsa and JJ still resentful of the marvelous Mauricio: "that big-mouthed Mauricio" - sigh. Really?
No honor among thieves and in fact now, all are against each other. Who will prevail? Polished Adolfo or Dante or street smart Édgar and Valentín? I cannot wait to find out.
Best moment was the awkward yet touching sib reunion of Gabi, Juli and Carlos. Loved when Carlos moved to the couch to sit between the girls. No one knew what to say but the hugs and kisses were genuine - a family at last. Perfectly played.
Jeri, thank you for another spectacular job. The picture of Adolfo and Bertha was so powerful.
Diana
Permalink posted by 
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 7:31:00 AM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 7:31:00 AM EST
Great episode and fantastic recap Jeri. Another title could have been The Girl Who cried Wolf. No one was coming to Bertha's aid this time as she has gone back to Adolfo again and again, despite all their warnings. And they don't even know she married him! It was very satisfying for me to see all those doors shut in her face. I think Adolfo also took her car keys from her purse after he snathced the cell and the wall phone. No escape for you Bertha. :)
Elsa seems to finally be moving forward, but why are Ale and JJ still showing such hostility to the Elsa/Mau pair? I thought Elsa reacted well, byt not reacting to Ale's oh so obvious sarcastic tone on the phone. Chill ot Ale. The woman just got out of prison. Be mad at JJ for doing something dangerous if you want, but Elsa never asked him to do it. Don't be mad at her. And certainly don't be jealous because JJ has never shown that he has any romantic feelings for Elsa-- in fact, until this point, he hasn't even been a very good friend to her. I want them to eventually be good friends again, and they can't do that if Ale is going to be in jealousy mode all the time. Ditto for JJ with Mau.
They should have told Cara some lie as to why Elsa wasn't around. Why was it up to Elsa to have to make something up and appologize to Cara for not informing her of her "business tip".
Loved the sibling meet up in the Starbucks.
I also really enjoyed how well they have done this PSA about literacy. It was less heavy handed and out of left field than what they did in STUD, and I thought Limon writing Cara a heartfelt letter some day was a great goal.
The spit is about to hit the fan with all the mafiosos and goons turning on each other. Carmelo underestimated Edgar. No one puts Eddie in the corner...and lives to tell about it. :)
Elsa seems to finally be moving forward, but why are Ale and JJ still showing such hostility to the Elsa/Mau pair? I thought Elsa reacted well, byt not reacting to Ale's oh so obvious sarcastic tone on the phone. Chill ot Ale. The woman just got out of prison. Be mad at JJ for doing something dangerous if you want, but Elsa never asked him to do it. Don't be mad at her. And certainly don't be jealous because JJ has never shown that he has any romantic feelings for Elsa-- in fact, until this point, he hasn't even been a very good friend to her. I want them to eventually be good friends again, and they can't do that if Ale is going to be in jealousy mode all the time. Ditto for JJ with Mau.
They should have told Cara some lie as to why Elsa wasn't around. Why was it up to Elsa to have to make something up and appologize to Cara for not informing her of her "business tip".
Loved the sibling meet up in the Starbucks.
I also really enjoyed how well they have done this PSA about literacy. It was less heavy handed and out of left field than what they did in STUD, and I thought Limon writing Cara a heartfelt letter some day was a great goal.
The spit is about to hit the fan with all the mafiosos and goons turning on each other. Carmelo underestimated Edgar. No one puts Eddie in the corner...and lives to tell about it. :)
Thanks, Jeri!
Carlos and his sister: awwwwwwwwww! So adorable!
Geeeeez, the goons killed Carmelo! I'm shocked.
So. It wasn't Mauricio or the lawyer who saved Elsa but the good old jealous, bully JJ, who actually risked his life twice to help her. The debt (= the visits in jail and helping Piedad) is paid.
He told upset Elsa very calmly she doesn't have to be worried about the child, her new legal guard is a good man, and she can meet her whenever she wants. Right now, if she wants to. His resentment towards Mau is ridiculous as always (one more quarrel and I'll shout "hidden homosexuality and unresolved sexual tension"), but he only wanted them to keep their mouth shut since he sacrificed a proof for Elsa's sake an Leo wouldn't like that.
Don't be mad at her.
Ale and Elsa have a very old history of mutual resentment, rudeness and jealousy,and its understandable that she can't stand her. She also knows how complicated Elsa's and JJ's complicated is. And I'm still waiting for an unequivocal sign of that Elsa forgot JJ at last and she loves Mau.
As for her jealousy, well, it sounds like Gaby's jealousy over Dora's calls, plot device.
They should have told Cara some lie as to why Elsa wasn't around.
Maybe Cara never asked after her. She didn't say "I missed you so much and the others didn't want to tell me were you were". Judging from the timeline Elsa spent two weeks in jail. (At the beginning of the show there were 6 months left of the contract and she was imprisoned for ten episodes.)
Carlos and his sister: awwwwwwwwww! So adorable!
Geeeeez, the goons killed Carmelo! I'm shocked.
So. It wasn't Mauricio or the lawyer who saved Elsa but the good old jealous, bully JJ, who actually risked his life twice to help her. The debt (= the visits in jail and helping Piedad) is paid.
He told upset Elsa very calmly she doesn't have to be worried about the child, her new legal guard is a good man, and she can meet her whenever she wants. Right now, if she wants to. His resentment towards Mau is ridiculous as always (one more quarrel and I'll shout "hidden homosexuality and unresolved sexual tension"), but he only wanted them to keep their mouth shut since he sacrificed a proof for Elsa's sake an Leo wouldn't like that.
Don't be mad at her.
Ale and Elsa have a very old history of mutual resentment, rudeness and jealousy,and its understandable that she can't stand her. She also knows how complicated Elsa's and JJ's complicated is. And I'm still waiting for an unequivocal sign of that Elsa forgot JJ at last and she loves Mau.
As for her jealousy, well, it sounds like Gaby's jealousy over Dora's calls, plot device.
They should have told Cara some lie as to why Elsa wasn't around.
Maybe Cara never asked after her. She didn't say "I missed you so much and the others didn't want to tell me were you were". Judging from the timeline Elsa spent two weeks in jail. (At the beginning of the show there were 6 months left of the contract and she was imprisoned for ten episodes.)
Good morning. :-) Diana, you noticed that, too eh. Alejandra and Juan José still have some issues. I can sort of get Alejandra, given she's the jealous type.
But really it was too far that she objected to him getting Elsa out of prison for pete's sake. And Juan José's issue with Mauricio is just old and stupid.
You got the right take on it: they showed Alejandra and David thinking Bertha was crying wolf -- and that they were both incorrect.
I had thought of that as a title, but it's inaccurate. When Bertha gets terrified of Adolfo, it's always real.
She just has the memory of a fish; as soon as things are ok, she believes all over again. Clueless, clueless girl.
What do you do if you're Zaida...decimated is apt. I was wondering what I would do in her place. Either Adolfo or Dante have her guarded all the time.
But really it was too far that she objected to him getting Elsa out of prison for pete's sake. And Juan José's issue with Mauricio is just old and stupid.
You got the right take on it: they showed Alejandra and David thinking Bertha was crying wolf -- and that they were both incorrect.
I had thought of that as a title, but it's inaccurate. When Bertha gets terrified of Adolfo, it's always real.
She just has the memory of a fish; as soon as things are ok, she believes all over again. Clueless, clueless girl.
What do you do if you're Zaida...decimated is apt. I was wondering what I would do in her place. Either Adolfo or Dante have her guarded all the time.
Jeri- But that's exactly the story of the boy calling wolf. When the real wolf appears, no one believes him. Adolfo really is a danger to her now, but no one believes her. She's not lying, they just don't believe.
Cara doesn't really miss anyone but Limon. Even last night, she was most concrened about Limon getting to take her to school. But I still think it's polite to tell a child why someone who has been in her life, is no longer around. It's not a huge deal, but it still shows JJ and the gang just aren't the most thoughtful sometimes.
I don't agree that YEARS of support and devotion while he was in prison are now wiped out by JJ helping Elsa get out of prison. This is not tit for tat. Elsa didn't visit him in prison, take care of his mom, and work to get him out of prison to build up some sort of debt for JJ that he would have to pay back to her. No one or two deeds can pay another person back for friendship and love. You pay it back in kind, with friendship and love, and those things aren't finite.
Cara doesn't really miss anyone but Limon. Even last night, she was most concrened about Limon getting to take her to school. But I still think it's polite to tell a child why someone who has been in her life, is no longer around. It's not a huge deal, but it still shows JJ and the gang just aren't the most thoughtful sometimes.
I don't agree that YEARS of support and devotion while he was in prison are now wiped out by JJ helping Elsa get out of prison. This is not tit for tat. Elsa didn't visit him in prison, take care of his mom, and work to get him out of prison to build up some sort of debt for JJ that he would have to pay back to her. No one or two deeds can pay another person back for friendship and love. You pay it back in kind, with friendship and love, and those things aren't finite.
Zaida is screwed. Right now she's got to play any card she's given (kudos to her for trying to seduce Adolfo), and look for any escape routes she can find. I would recommend that she contact the police and go under police protection, but I think she's being watched too closely to be able to do that. So she's going to have to look for an underhanded/sneaky way to gain her freedom.
Vivi, no,that's not the wolf story.
In the crying-wolf tale, there is no wolf the first two times; only the last time. Not the case here.
As I said, Bertha is always truly fearful of Adolfo when she runs away from him.
In the crying-wolf tale, there is no wolf the first two times; only the last time. Not the case here.
As I said, Bertha is always truly fearful of Adolfo when she runs away from him.
Jeri, your recap is wonderful as usual, and like Diana, I loved several of your great descriptions like, Bertha “rivets her saucer-wide eyes on him.” and “Ale’s flaring nostrils.” Your title was fabulous too, “The spit hits the fan.” Beautifully done again, thanks Jeri.
As I watched Elsa finish her conversation with Limon at the Genoves house I had tears in my eyes. In the TRUEST loving way, Elsa backed away from a fight that would have continued to tear apart the long ago friends. She even had the presence to say to Limon that, with Caramelo eventually being in custody of Ale and JJ, she would be back with him, whom we know loves her so and really saved her tiny life. In the spirit of Elsa’s generosity, I thought about the circle that has taken Cara from a dumpster to
Limon
JJ/Limon
Elsa
JJ/Limon/Ale
Abelardo
and it seems eventually back to JJ/Ale/Limon.
Each person has given so much to the child and while most were lacking in some way, all gave a lot of LOVE and the little girl is happy, well adjusted, healthy and most importantly alive! This has been a truly wonderful novela story. So why am teary, I don’t know!!!!
I loved it when JJ called Dante the virgincita! JJ went about it in all the wrong ways, but he has, in my way of thinking, completed his emotional obligation to Elsa. He helped when she needed him the most. I'm sure, to the end of his life, if needed, he would come to her rescue, he's proven that.
Diana, I agree certain characters seemed to move backwards maturity-wise in the episode, life is a constant struggle for most of us I guess.
Vivi, the obesity PSA by Limon was well done as well!
As I watched Elsa finish her conversation with Limon at the Genoves house I had tears in my eyes. In the TRUEST loving way, Elsa backed away from a fight that would have continued to tear apart the long ago friends. She even had the presence to say to Limon that, with Caramelo eventually being in custody of Ale and JJ, she would be back with him, whom we know loves her so and really saved her tiny life. In the spirit of Elsa’s generosity, I thought about the circle that has taken Cara from a dumpster to
Limon
JJ/Limon
Elsa
JJ/Limon/Ale
Abelardo
and it seems eventually back to JJ/Ale/Limon.
Each person has given so much to the child and while most were lacking in some way, all gave a lot of LOVE and the little girl is happy, well adjusted, healthy and most importantly alive! This has been a truly wonderful novela story. So why am teary, I don’t know!!!!
I loved it when JJ called Dante the virgincita! JJ went about it in all the wrong ways, but he has, in my way of thinking, completed his emotional obligation to Elsa. He helped when she needed him the most. I'm sure, to the end of his life, if needed, he would come to her rescue, he's proven that.
Diana, I agree certain characters seemed to move backwards maturity-wise in the episode, life is a constant struggle for most of us I guess.
Vivi, the obesity PSA by Limon was well done as well!
Vivi: "...She just has the memory of a fish; as soon as things are ok, she believes all over again. Clueless, clueless girl..."
If you've seen "Finding Nemo," you may remember Ellen DeGeneres's fish character had a memory of about five seconds -- which is actually true of fish, I hear.
Sandy, did you feel like Dante and Adolfo should have known they were being played? Or are they too on the prod to be circumspect...
If you've seen "Finding Nemo," you may remember Ellen DeGeneres's fish character had a memory of about five seconds -- which is actually true of fish, I hear.
Sandy, did you feel like Dante and Adolfo should have known they were being played? Or are they too on the prod to be circumspect...
The point is, nobody believes Bertha being afraid of Adolfo. Everyone is tired of her #$%# and they've washed their hands of her.
Throughout the show Alejandra has wanted Bertha away from Adolfo but Bertha keeps running back to him. This last stunt with Mario has made Alejandra wash her hands of Bertha. Bertha has repeatedly given information about the Genoves family (Mario's health, David's origins, Gabi's photo etc). She's turned against her family; don't expect them to come to her rescue now.
As for Carlos, she betrayed him by marrying Adolfo. Now she wants Carlos to come riding in to save the day?
No, it's like Adolfo said. Either she rides and dies with him or she needs to escape and never be found by him. And escaping would mean never seeing her family again (or at least until Adolfo is dead).
Sorry, Bertha. You made your choice. Live with it.
PS...I thought last night illustrated what a child Bertha really is.
Throughout the show Alejandra has wanted Bertha away from Adolfo but Bertha keeps running back to him. This last stunt with Mario has made Alejandra wash her hands of Bertha. Bertha has repeatedly given information about the Genoves family (Mario's health, David's origins, Gabi's photo etc). She's turned against her family; don't expect them to come to her rescue now.
As for Carlos, she betrayed him by marrying Adolfo. Now she wants Carlos to come riding in to save the day?
No, it's like Adolfo said. Either she rides and dies with him or she needs to escape and never be found by him. And escaping would mean never seeing her family again (or at least until Adolfo is dead).
Sorry, Bertha. You made your choice. Live with it.
PS...I thought last night illustrated what a child Bertha really is.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 9:53:00 AM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 9:53:00 AM EST
OK, if I think of her as the forgetful fish in Finding Nemo, I might have a tiny, itsy bit of sympathy for her. :)
"I'm sure, to the end of his life, if needed, he would come to her rescue, he's proven that."
And I'm sure that she will also do the same for him to the end of her life. That's what I'm saying. Friendship is not a debt to be repaid. It's a circle that's never eneding.
And I'm sure that she will also do the same for him to the end of her life. That's what I'm saying. Friendship is not a debt to be repaid. It's a circle that's never eneding.
Vivi, yes; hold that thought, LOL. She's incredibly forgetful and gullible.
Anon, I find Bertha a child and a moron; but they showed Alejandra and David believing something that isn't true because of their anger toward her.
She did not set Mario up to be murdered, which is what they think; clueless Bertha just thought she was going there to make up with her uncle.
Bertha was upset thinking Adolfo tried to murder Mario; and Adolfo also knew Bertha wouldn't stand for it, because he denied it immediately.
Anon, I find Bertha a child and a moron; but they showed Alejandra and David believing something that isn't true because of their anger toward her.
She did not set Mario up to be murdered, which is what they think; clueless Bertha just thought she was going there to make up with her uncle.
Bertha was upset thinking Adolfo tried to murder Mario; and Adolfo also knew Bertha wouldn't stand for it, because he denied it immediately.
And what about the great melodrama last night, eh? Great melodrama between Carlos and Bertha, which wouldn't be found between Carlos and Mina. I have said it. ;-)
Also, with the Prince Charming crack, jealousy on Adolfo's side, as well. Things moving along on track there.
Sandy, yeah, now I am jerking the chain, LOL. I honestly do not know how this will end...just having fun with it.
Hey, Mina can give him melodrama if he wants it. :) Remember haw she bawled out Elsa? She's got fire in her too. She's flirty, and by no means a goody-goody. But Bertha will probably eventually be rescued by her knight in tarnished armor Carlos.
We've toyed with the idea of Elsa being bumped off before. What if Bertha died? Would it really affect anyone much? Ale would be sad, but she would say her sister dug her own grave and move on. Ditto for Carlos. No one else would give a damn (including me). Far less people than would be upset if Elsa died.
Yeah, I've wondered about Bertha winding up dead, too; she's certainly in the right spot for it. But so far she's kinda Teflon, if you know what I mean.
Mina's not going to give Carlos that kind of melodrama; she's got other plans for that bod. He can fool around with her; I'd like to see Mina have a good time.
She might throw some sparks if Carlos steps into his armor and rides to Bertha's rescue; but on the other hand, Mina told Alejandra she was at least looking for someone to break her long dry spell.
Mina's not going to give Carlos that kind of melodrama; she's got other plans for that bod. He can fool around with her; I'd like to see Mina have a good time.
She might throw some sparks if Carlos steps into his armor and rides to Bertha's rescue; but on the other hand, Mina told Alejandra she was at least looking for someone to break her long dry spell.
"she's got other plans for that bod" LOL! Yes, indeed. I hope she's taking full advantage of this opportunity, whether or not it's only temporary. :)
Marco Mendez is so gorgeous. This portrait of Marcos gives me the sighs.
It's big -- pretty hi-res. Could be a desk top.
He's one of the few guys (i.e., Tom Selleck) who look better in a mustache, I think.
It's big -- pretty hi-res. Could be a desk top.
He's one of the few guys (i.e., Tom Selleck) who look better in a mustache, I think.
“Sandy, did you feel like Dante and Adolfo should have known they were being played?” Jeri, it was a little strange that both the bad guys, Adolfo and Dante, fell for the Garnica ruse and the good guys tested the crooks. Adolfo went so far as to wire money into Garnica’s account. Julio Aleman really brought a lot to his performance last night. He looked afraid, tired, sick, regretful, confused, agitated and most of all menacing. Kudos to the actor.
Jeri, I have been in a book club for about 25 years. I’ve been known to very lightly jerk a chain or two myself, there is nothing worse that a dull, dull, dull “meeting of the minds” conversation. The discussions here have been fantastic.
I’m going to be tying my personal rating of LVO to Bertha’s outcome. If in the end she is humiliated and doing something like selling expensive dressed to the hoity toity of Mexico City, I’m giving this novela an A+. But, if she is happy as a little clam enjoying Carlos’ “bod” I’m afraid my rating will slide to A -. After all, hasn’t stupidity and greed gotten us into the worst recession since the 1930s? Bertha’s failings are serious in my way of thinking!!! (Ok, that was a little over the top, I admit it!)
Welcome Anon 9:53.
Jeri, I have been in a book club for about 25 years. I’ve been known to very lightly jerk a chain or two myself, there is nothing worse that a dull, dull, dull “meeting of the minds” conversation. The discussions here have been fantastic.
I’m going to be tying my personal rating of LVO to Bertha’s outcome. If in the end she is humiliated and doing something like selling expensive dressed to the hoity toity of Mexico City, I’m giving this novela an A+. But, if she is happy as a little clam enjoying Carlos’ “bod” I’m afraid my rating will slide to A -. After all, hasn’t stupidity and greed gotten us into the worst recession since the 1930s? Bertha’s failings are serious in my way of thinking!!! (Ok, that was a little over the top, I admit it!)
Welcome Anon 9:53.
"but they showed Alejandra and David believing something that isn't true because of their anger toward her."
Bertha's given them no reason to believe her. Adolfo knows private things about the Genoves family (including Mario's brain tumor) BECAUSE of Bertha.
Why should Ale & David believe her?
"She did not set Mario up to be murdered, which is what they think; clueless Bertha just thought she was going there to make up with her uncle."
Which also struck Ale & David strange because why go to the hotel when she could have just come to Casa Genoves?
"Bertha was upset thinking Adolfo tried to murder Mario; and Adolfo also knew Bertha wouldn't stand for it, because he denied it immediately."
Bertha may have truly been upset, but nobody will ever believe it because she's been hateful & nasty to every single member of the Genoves family with the exception of Alejandra. Plus, she keeps hanging out with Adolfo after everyone has warned her about Adolfo. They don't even know she married Adolfo yet.
"What if Bertha died? Would it really affect anyone much? Ale would be sad, but she would say her sister dug her own grave and move on."
Bertha's death wouldn't affect anyone much except Alejandra (& JJ, on behalf of Ale). Everyone else will pause and say "What a shame," then go on about their day. Adolfo is correct: no one loves her, no one wants her.
Bertha's given them no reason to believe her. Adolfo knows private things about the Genoves family (including Mario's brain tumor) BECAUSE of Bertha.
Why should Ale & David believe her?
"She did not set Mario up to be murdered, which is what they think; clueless Bertha just thought she was going there to make up with her uncle."
Which also struck Ale & David strange because why go to the hotel when she could have just come to Casa Genoves?
"Bertha was upset thinking Adolfo tried to murder Mario; and Adolfo also knew Bertha wouldn't stand for it, because he denied it immediately."
Bertha may have truly been upset, but nobody will ever believe it because she's been hateful & nasty to every single member of the Genoves family with the exception of Alejandra. Plus, she keeps hanging out with Adolfo after everyone has warned her about Adolfo. They don't even know she married Adolfo yet.
"What if Bertha died? Would it really affect anyone much? Ale would be sad, but she would say her sister dug her own grave and move on."
Bertha's death wouldn't affect anyone much except Alejandra (& JJ, on behalf of Ale). Everyone else will pause and say "What a shame," then go on about their day. Adolfo is correct: no one loves her, no one wants her.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 11:25:00 AM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 11:25:00 AM EST
Jeri. Love. Marcos. Those. Eyes. Oh my. Thank you for that beautiful image.
Sandy, love your idea of Bertha "selling expensive dressed to the hoity toity of Mexico City". Excellent! I have also stated in previous posts that Bertha and Carlos living happily ever after would definitely diminish my joy in this novela. That said, I have no doubt this would still remain my all time favorite!
Diana
Sandy, love your idea of Bertha "selling expensive dressed to the hoity toity of Mexico City". Excellent! I have also stated in previous posts that Bertha and Carlos living happily ever after would definitely diminish my joy in this novela. That said, I have no doubt this would still remain my all time favorite!
Diana
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 11:42:00 AM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 11:42:00 AM EST
Vivi:
It isn't wiped out but if JJ would've treated her better and wouldn't have acted like an obnoxious bro since episode 30 (I think), I would say now they are equal.
In my opinion most of her kindness was paid back while JJ was in prison, because no, visiting him wasn't a sacrifice at all, it was a pleasure. He wasn't a random ugly cellmate, he was a very handsome, young and nice guy (RIP, old JJ) with a lovely mother. All Marcos gave her were resentment, guilt trips and bitterness. JJ & Piedad gave her love, they made her smile and made her forget she was lonely. And they never asked anything in return. She visited JJ because she liked to be with him and she had zero friends outside. It was still better than sitting in her flat alone. She benefited from that situation, too, she got a new aunt/future mother-in-law and a caring brother/future husband (again, RIP old JJ).
On the other hand, asking for loan was a real sacrifice. JJ paid her back every peso she got from Salomón.
Deciding to finacially support and taking care of Piedad was another sacrifice and a testament of kindness. But Piedad wasn't an incapable cripple or a child without incomings. She would've been able to shop, to cook and to pay some part of the rent. And Elsa was lonely and she was happy for having a family at last. And she also gained good points as a possible future wife.
Yes, she has a caring heart and she's selfless (the Caramelo situation proves it), but she wasn't Mother Teresa taking care of a bunch of angry, nasty slumdogs, she was a woman in love who spent her free time with the only people who cared for her.
Oh, Bertha's punishment has become. I think this's going to be spectacular. *eats popcorn*
By the way, Jeri, the "flaring nostrils" is freaking hilarious! :))
It isn't wiped out but if JJ would've treated her better and wouldn't have acted like an obnoxious bro since episode 30 (I think), I would say now they are equal.
In my opinion most of her kindness was paid back while JJ was in prison, because no, visiting him wasn't a sacrifice at all, it was a pleasure. He wasn't a random ugly cellmate, he was a very handsome, young and nice guy (RIP, old JJ) with a lovely mother. All Marcos gave her were resentment, guilt trips and bitterness. JJ & Piedad gave her love, they made her smile and made her forget she was lonely. And they never asked anything in return. She visited JJ because she liked to be with him and she had zero friends outside. It was still better than sitting in her flat alone. She benefited from that situation, too, she got a new aunt/future mother-in-law and a caring brother/future husband (again, RIP old JJ).
On the other hand, asking for loan was a real sacrifice. JJ paid her back every peso she got from Salomón.
Deciding to finacially support and taking care of Piedad was another sacrifice and a testament of kindness. But Piedad wasn't an incapable cripple or a child without incomings. She would've been able to shop, to cook and to pay some part of the rent. And Elsa was lonely and she was happy for having a family at last. And she also gained good points as a possible future wife.
Yes, she has a caring heart and she's selfless (the Caramelo situation proves it), but she wasn't Mother Teresa taking care of a bunch of angry, nasty slumdogs, she was a woman in love who spent her free time with the only people who cared for her.
Oh, Bertha's punishment has become. I think this's going to be spectacular. *eats popcorn*
By the way, Jeri, the "flaring nostrils" is freaking hilarious! :))
Jeri Great recap! I feel bad for Zaida, I hope she gets away from her kind of life somehow.
I also felt bad for Elsa because it must have hurt to finally let go completely of Caramelo. She truly loves that kid. Little Caramelo is so lucky to have so many people loving her so much. That scene made me want to give my godmother a call.
The scene between Carlos and the girls was so sweet! I want to hug him too! But not on a sisterly way hehe.
Jeri, I think Marco looks great with or without a mustache. Have you seen this video of his modeling for a TVyNovelas calendar? Gah, wait for the moment Maná's Rayando El Sol starts to play.
Jarocha
I also felt bad for Elsa because it must have hurt to finally let go completely of Caramelo. She truly loves that kid. Little Caramelo is so lucky to have so many people loving her so much. That scene made me want to give my godmother a call.
The scene between Carlos and the girls was so sweet! I want to hug him too! But not on a sisterly way hehe.
Jeri, I think Marco looks great with or without a mustache. Have you seen this video of his modeling for a TVyNovelas calendar? Gah, wait for the moment Maná's Rayando El Sol starts to play.
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 12:25:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 12:25:00 PM EST
Aribeth- But it wasn't just "asking for a loan." She had to suffer near rape and molestation at the hands of Solomon and the lawyer for that money and legal assistance, and then work her ass off to sell enough merchadise to pay them in installments so they didn't collect in other ways, until JJ got his money and could pay them off all at once. But this all goes back to tit for tat. Doing things for our friends gives us pleasure. Spending time with our friends gives us pleasure. She wasn't just going to the prison and staring at him. She was listening to his stories and heartache, sharing stories, bringing some of the outside world to him, giving him encouragement. She didn't take Piedad in thinking, better be nice to the future MIL. She was genuinely moved by this old lady who was alone and not doing very well on her own. It was a bonus that she also enjoyed Piedad's company. JJ and Elsa have shown that they can enjoy each other's company in the quiet times, like the prison visits and after he left prison. And they have BOTH shown that when the going gets tough, they are both capable of going through the fire for each other. There is NO debt. There never has been. Elsa basically said so to JJ when he visited her in prison. She just needed a friend to visit her in prison and be in her corner (like she was for him), not a debtor who felt he owed her something.
Anon, "...The point is, nobody believes Bertha being afraid of Adolfo..."
Untrue, in fact; and in an important way: the audience believes Bertha's afraid of Adolfo, and the audience has seen the way things actually unfolded.
That's the point: Bertha's stupid and ambitious; but not a killer or even an evil person at bottom.
Jarocha, thanks for that clip! I could have done without the fish gutting, though. LOL -- what is it with guys and abusing seafood as machismo. (See: CS 2009, Juan del Diablo, under "octopus")
Untrue, in fact; and in an important way: the audience believes Bertha's afraid of Adolfo, and the audience has seen the way things actually unfolded.
That's the point: Bertha's stupid and ambitious; but not a killer or even an evil person at bottom.
Jarocha, thanks for that clip! I could have done without the fish gutting, though. LOL -- what is it with guys and abusing seafood as machismo. (See: CS 2009, Juan del Diablo, under "octopus")
Aribeth, LOL re: the ovaries; I can tell you there has been some serious irritation of the glands here, too.
Bertha was not calling Viewerville for help. Bertha called her sister, who didn't believe her and then her former lover, who didn't care.
Her newfound prima isn't coming to the rescue;
Her adopted primo isn't coming to the rescue;
Her one friend Jimena isn't coming to the rescue;
Mario Genoves, real or fake, isn't/likely isn't coming to the rescue;
And Viewerville can't climb through the TV screen to rescue her. Bertha has no one, and she has no one to blame but herself.
Her newfound prima isn't coming to the rescue;
Her adopted primo isn't coming to the rescue;
Her one friend Jimena isn't coming to the rescue;
Mario Genoves, real or fake, isn't/likely isn't coming to the rescue;
And Viewerville can't climb through the TV screen to rescue her. Bertha has no one, and she has no one to blame but herself.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 12:53:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 12:53:00 PM EST
Anon, the story is for the audience, not the characters. The resolution will be for us, who know more than they do. Do you want to clarify your argument? I'm not seeing one.
Oh...maybe you think I'm somehow blaming people for thinking badly of Bertha. I'm not.
Their reaction seems logical to me; she's acting like a moron and stepped into situations over her head and likely to put her in a bad light.
Their reaction seems logical to me; she's acting like a moron and stepped into situations over her head and likely to put her in a bad light.
P.S. By people I mean characters in the show; as for viewers, they have to draw their own conclusions, but it's there for them to see.
If they don't want to be shocked that Carlos would rescue Bertha, then they should follow the breadcrumbs being dropped, is my advice.
If they don't want to be shocked that Carlos would rescue Bertha, then they should follow the breadcrumbs being dropped, is my advice.
But it wasn't just "asking for a loan."
Poor kid had to do that for the first time because her leech brother forced her, and that was a very sad and disgusting situation. But for the second time? JJ told her not to spend money on him and forget that lawyer. But she went back and asked another loan. She knew JJ asked her not to help. She suspected Salomón was a creepy monster. If she would've ended up raped, it would've been her own fault. Even if she had the best saintly intentions.
I said debt because even if Elsa doesn't care about it much, Viewerville does. And every time JJ raises his voice and says something stupid or offensive, we don't say only that "omg he's a jerk for treating a woman, a friend like that", we say "omg he's an ungrateful megajerk, the jerk of jerks because *insert Elsa's ten million real and so-called sacrifices here*". :))
And Elsa did have a friend. Her neighbor often visited her and chatted with her over coffee.
That was a deep relationship, like mine with the grocery store owner. We see them talking on phone and meeting regularly. :) I don't know what she was like when she was a child, before the family tragedy happened, but since then she's been the loneliest person ever. In my opinion Ulises was her first real friend, you know, friend-friend, without sexual tension, marriage offers and others.
Though telenovela characters usually don't have many "outsider" friends, they spend their time together.
Poor kid had to do that for the first time because her leech brother forced her, and that was a very sad and disgusting situation. But for the second time? JJ told her not to spend money on him and forget that lawyer. But she went back and asked another loan. She knew JJ asked her not to help. She suspected Salomón was a creepy monster. If she would've ended up raped, it would've been her own fault. Even if she had the best saintly intentions.
I said debt because even if Elsa doesn't care about it much, Viewerville does. And every time JJ raises his voice and says something stupid or offensive, we don't say only that "omg he's a jerk for treating a woman, a friend like that", we say "omg he's an ungrateful megajerk, the jerk of jerks because *insert Elsa's ten million real and so-called sacrifices here*". :))
And Elsa did have a friend. Her neighbor often visited her and chatted with her over coffee.
That was a deep relationship, like mine with the grocery store owner. We see them talking on phone and meeting regularly. :) I don't know what she was like when she was a child, before the family tragedy happened, but since then she's been the loneliest person ever. In my opinion Ulises was her first real friend, you know, friend-friend, without sexual tension, marriage offers and others.
Though telenovela characters usually don't have many "outsider" friends, they spend their time together.
I actually thought it was a little noteworthy that Dante carried off Adolfo's revolver.
I had a feeling he might keep it and plant Adolfo's gun at some crime scene. Or as evidence somehow.
I had a feeling he might keep it and plant Adolfo's gun at some crime scene. Or as evidence somehow.
"If she would've ended up raped, it would've been her own fault."
Just like it would have been JJ's fault if Dante and Adolfo had blown his head off when he waltzed into the condo. They both did stupid reckless things to help the other.
I think it's natural when we see someone being a jerk to someone who has proven their love/devotion/loyalty/etc to them to bring up all the things they have done. But really what we're saying is "How can so and so dare treat their friend that way?" The fact that the person may have done extraordinary things for the other person only strengthens the case and makes the outside person think there is NO EXCUSE for the other person to treat their friend that way. That person can't say, "Well I never knew how much so and so really cared about me." But at the end of the day, even if your friend hasn't suffered near rape or nearly being killed by gangsters for you, you should still treat them with respect and kindness.
Just like it would have been JJ's fault if Dante and Adolfo had blown his head off when he waltzed into the condo. They both did stupid reckless things to help the other.
I think it's natural when we see someone being a jerk to someone who has proven their love/devotion/loyalty/etc to them to bring up all the things they have done. But really what we're saying is "How can so and so dare treat their friend that way?" The fact that the person may have done extraordinary things for the other person only strengthens the case and makes the outside person think there is NO EXCUSE for the other person to treat their friend that way. That person can't say, "Well I never knew how much so and so really cared about me." But at the end of the day, even if your friend hasn't suffered near rape or nearly being killed by gangsters for you, you should still treat them with respect and kindness.
Just like it would have been JJ's fault if Dante and Adolfo had blown his head off when he waltzed into the condo. They both did stupid reckless things to help the other.
Yes, it would've been his fault, so Ale's anger was understandable. There are two differences: JJ had extremely good chances when he risked his life (to stay alive and to help Elsa) + he managed to get her out of jail.
He was lucky because he's just as naive as Elsa, so a slimebag lawyer would've tricked him, too.
OT
I just heard what happened to a female journalist in Egypt. Animals. I'm glad that your friend managed to leave the country, Vivi.
Yes, it would've been his fault, so Ale's anger was understandable. There are two differences: JJ had extremely good chances when he risked his life (to stay alive and to help Elsa) + he managed to get her out of jail.
He was lucky because he's just as naive as Elsa, so a slimebag lawyer would've tricked him, too.
OT
I just heard what happened to a female journalist in Egypt. Animals. I'm glad that your friend managed to leave the country, Vivi.
Yes, the journalist incident was terrible. It was clearly an attempt to intimidate the media and protestors. I am very happy my friend Lu is back, but she is still planning on returning soon. She and her team are monitoring the situation day by day.
Lu: lovely name. I understand her, her job is in Egypt and she had a life there, but she'll have to wait for a while.
My best friend is married to a nice Moroccan man. They haven't decided yet where to live but I hope they'll end up in Hungary or somewhere else in Europe.
My best friend is married to a nice Moroccan man. They haven't decided yet where to live but I hope they'll end up in Hungary or somewhere else in Europe.
The story may be for the audience but the characters are the ones who have to resolve the situations, and the situation at hand is Bertha is fearful of Adolfo and wants someone to rescue her. She reached out to Alejandra & Carlos and because of her past actions, no one believes her when she says she didn't set Mario up to be killed and when she says she needs rescuing from Adolfo. Therefore, no one's coming to Bertha's rescue.
Bertha the character needs to figure out how to save herself and reevaluate how she got there in the first place. She was screaming and crying on the phone and neither Alejandra nor Carlos cared.
It doesn't matter if WE the viewer care about Bertha or know that Bertha didn't set Mario up. Bertha didn't call us for help. She called her sister and former lover and neither one of them cared. Neither did her cousin or her "uncle." And nobody cares because of all the schemes and tricks she's played in the past. Everything is truly catching up to Bertha.
Bertha the character needs to figure out how to save herself and reevaluate how she got there in the first place. She was screaming and crying on the phone and neither Alejandra nor Carlos cared.
It doesn't matter if WE the viewer care about Bertha or know that Bertha didn't set Mario up. Bertha didn't call us for help. She called her sister and former lover and neither one of them cared. Neither did her cousin or her "uncle." And nobody cares because of all the schemes and tricks she's played in the past. Everything is truly catching up to Bertha.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 2:34:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 2:34:00 PM EST
Thank you Jeri.
Bertha is paying for all the bad things she did in the past. Very satisfying to see that no-one was particularly interested in coming to her rescue. Too late Bertha. Adolfo has dropped the mask and is now showing you who he really is.
I really can't stand JJ. What a stupid idiot moron. I feel sorry for Ale being married to him. He has tickets on himself because he has money and feels superior towards Elsa and Mauricio who are not as rich as he is. He was such a better person before he found the gold. I hope by the end of this novela I will finally understand why he has this antipathy towards Mauricio. It still doesn't make sense to me and I want to understand.
It was nice to see Elsa and Caramelo again together. I felt sad for Elsa having to finally accept that Caramelo was now with Limon and the others and was happy and content. No matter how short a time Caramelo was with Elsa it did impact on Elsa deeply and emotionally and I can understand her being sad.
Poor Zaida,wonder how she will get out of this one.
It was so beautiful to see Carlos with his sisters. He was so happy and affectionate.
Margaret
Bertha is paying for all the bad things she did in the past. Very satisfying to see that no-one was particularly interested in coming to her rescue. Too late Bertha. Adolfo has dropped the mask and is now showing you who he really is.
I really can't stand JJ. What a stupid idiot moron. I feel sorry for Ale being married to him. He has tickets on himself because he has money and feels superior towards Elsa and Mauricio who are not as rich as he is. He was such a better person before he found the gold. I hope by the end of this novela I will finally understand why he has this antipathy towards Mauricio. It still doesn't make sense to me and I want to understand.
It was nice to see Elsa and Caramelo again together. I felt sad for Elsa having to finally accept that Caramelo was now with Limon and the others and was happy and content. No matter how short a time Caramelo was with Elsa it did impact on Elsa deeply and emotionally and I can understand her being sad.
Poor Zaida,wonder how she will get out of this one.
It was so beautiful to see Carlos with his sisters. He was so happy and affectionate.
Margaret
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 3:06:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 3:06:00 PM EST
Jeri, I have one question for you, do you really like a lot of “melodrama” in a relationship?
Aribeth, Elsa “suspected Salomón was a creepy monster. If she would've ended up raped, it would've been her own fault.” ¿Que?
Anon, Bertha, “needs to figure out how to save herself and reevaluate how she got there in the first place.” According to some, Bertha, like a fish, has no memory, so any “re-evaluation” would be impossible! Ha! Anon, your thoughts are well-reasoned, have you been with us for a while?
Aribeth, Elsa “suspected Salomón was a creepy monster. If she would've ended up raped, it would've been her own fault.” ¿Que?
Anon, Bertha, “needs to figure out how to save herself and reevaluate how she got there in the first place.” According to some, Bertha, like a fish, has no memory, so any “re-evaluation” would be impossible! Ha! Anon, your thoughts are well-reasoned, have you been with us for a while?
"Bertha the character needs to figure out how to save herself and reevaluate how she got there in the first place."
Brilliant! That would be the only way Bertha would earn some of my respect.
Brilliant! That would be the only way Bertha would earn some of my respect.
Sandy, I meant it wasn't JJ's fault that she willingly fell into Salomón's trap. If Elsa wants to get raped while she's playing with the devil its her job. The same goes to JJ who wants to get shot while he's playing the hero. That wouldn't be Elsa's fault neither. It's so easy for a human to fall into horrible traps, then why don't we avoid the most obvious ones and look for another solution?
Actually, the rape would've been Marcos's fault first of all, he wanted her to get loan for Salomón. But for the second time she was the one who went back to a man who already harassed her sexually to get more money for JJ and to sign a crazy contract. It wasn't a situation like the one in Dirty Pretty Things where the Turkish seamstress's food, home and green card depended on her disgusting boss. Both Marcos and JJ would've been freed conditionally in a few months/in a year. Although Salomón was a creep, Elsa was relatively safe while she was nothing more but an employee, and she could've found another job. But when she asked for loan he did everything to turn her into a slave.
I know she had the purest intentions, but at the second time her naivety was painful, especially since she'd been attacked before and she was supposed to survive on her own.
Actually, the rape would've been Marcos's fault first of all, he wanted her to get loan for Salomón. But for the second time she was the one who went back to a man who already harassed her sexually to get more money for JJ and to sign a crazy contract. It wasn't a situation like the one in Dirty Pretty Things where the Turkish seamstress's food, home and green card depended on her disgusting boss. Both Marcos and JJ would've been freed conditionally in a few months/in a year. Although Salomón was a creep, Elsa was relatively safe while she was nothing more but an employee, and she could've found another job. But when she asked for loan he did everything to turn her into a slave.
I know she had the purest intentions, but at the second time her naivety was painful, especially since she'd been attacked before and she was supposed to survive on her own.
Went 24 hours without power due to a icestorm so I missed this episode. From your awesome recap Jeri, it sounds like this was a doozy. So even though JJ helped Elsa get out of jail, he's still mean to her and Alex is acting insecure. Yuck. I'm thinking JJ should've let Leo know about the letter. Somehow this will come back to bite him in the butt me thinks.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 4:39:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 4:39:00 PM EST
Nobody said Bertha would not be having an epiphany; that's part of the melodrama.
Sandy, oh, no; I like a nice steady relationship with my cuddly techno geek. We've been together a long time. Melodramas are just fun, and they have features you can track, like mysteries.
Anon, on the contrary, I can't follow your reasoning. You make no point nor argue against one that I can deduce.
Your posts are largely recaps of events. What are you objecting to? I asked before; you haven't said, and I can't guess again.
Oh, yes: what the audience knows is not only important, it's the only importance.
Sandy, oh, no; I like a nice steady relationship with my cuddly techno geek. We've been together a long time. Melodramas are just fun, and they have features you can track, like mysteries.
Anon, on the contrary, I can't follow your reasoning. You make no point nor argue against one that I can deduce.
Your posts are largely recaps of events. What are you objecting to? I asked before; you haven't said, and I can't guess again.
Oh, yes: what the audience knows is not only important, it's the only importance.
re Bertha- I don't just want her to have an epiphany. I want her to take proactive steps to get herself out of this situation(not just relying on fam/friends/lovers to get her out).
Thank you Jeri!
"I really can't stand JJ. What a stupid idiot moron...He was such a better person before he found the gold. I hope by the end of this novela I will finally understand why he has this antipathy towards Mauricio."
Margaret, ITA. If we never see JJ again for the rest of this TN it wouldn't bother me. Same for Ale. I don't feel sorry for her being married to JJ. They deserve each other.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I think it would be nice to see some joy between a couple for once. Maybe between Elsa and Mauricio or Carlos and **MINA**. I'm kind of burned out on the tension. I hope the writers don't drag this out to the bitter end and then give us 10 minutes of "and they lived happily ever after" like they did with CS. And I hope Adolfo doesn't die of some lame heart attack like Rodrigo MDO did. I want Adolfo to suffer... {evil laugh}
"I really can't stand JJ. What a stupid idiot moron...He was such a better person before he found the gold. I hope by the end of this novela I will finally understand why he has this antipathy towards Mauricio."
Margaret, ITA. If we never see JJ again for the rest of this TN it wouldn't bother me. Same for Ale. I don't feel sorry for her being married to JJ. They deserve each other.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I think it would be nice to see some joy between a couple for once. Maybe between Elsa and Mauricio or Carlos and **MINA**. I'm kind of burned out on the tension. I hope the writers don't drag this out to the bitter end and then give us 10 minutes of "and they lived happily ever after" like they did with CS. And I hope Adolfo doesn't die of some lame heart attack like Rodrigo MDO did. I want Adolfo to suffer... {evil laugh}
I have no idea what they'll have her do, but it will probably be in character. They've been pretty good about that.
xlnt- Gabi and David have been pretty happy for a while (even with the two day jealousy thing). And now they are deliriously happy with the baby on the way. Just think of them. Leo and Juli are happy too, but they never show them to us any more. They'll only focus on the couples with drama until the end.
I may be wrong, but wasn't Bertha there when Adolfo pulled a gun on Carlos. Carlos ran over when he realized Bertha had left his apartment and went looking for her. That's when she begged Carlos to leave before he was shot by his dad. Do I recall this correcty? Can't find the episode. So, her current breakdown about seeing Adolfo threatening someone with a gun is a bit hard to believe. Hope she is confined to that room for a long long time.
Jeri, the flaring nostrils line had me laughing. Ale is rightly outraged at J J for risking his life and putting Elsa's welfare over hers since he could have been killed. It was childish of Ale to be so sarcastic with Elsa who was just released from prison. But it was Elsa's fault for being naive about her new job.
Jeri, thanks for the recap since the dialog is still challenging for me. Your recap always reads beautifully. And thanks for the links.
So Eddie and Valentin killed off Carmelo or maybe Dante or his goon. I think they feel they were betrayed and want to off Carmelo.
GinCA
Jeri, the flaring nostrils line had me laughing. Ale is rightly outraged at J J for risking his life and putting Elsa's welfare over hers since he could have been killed. It was childish of Ale to be so sarcastic with Elsa who was just released from prison. But it was Elsa's fault for being naive about her new job.
Jeri, thanks for the recap since the dialog is still challenging for me. Your recap always reads beautifully. And thanks for the links.
So Eddie and Valentin killed off Carmelo or maybe Dante or his goon. I think they feel they were betrayed and want to off Carmelo.
GinCA
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 5:05:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 5:05:00 PM EST
GinCA, I was talking about Dante carrying off Adolfo's gun up earlier, and something just occurred to me.
Dante could have had his goon use Adolfo's gun to assassinate Carmelo.
Dante could have had his goon use Adolfo's gun to assassinate Carmelo.
Aribeth, we have a point of agreement, ...On Elsa, “her naivety was painful.” In a way I see your point, but in a modern world, we are trained to think that the rapist is always at fault. Much has been said about Bertha’s helpless naiveté, but Elsa’s motivation of love and her “naive” desire to return into a den of “harassment” to help JJ is a fault buffer for me. On another topic, have you seen Blue Valentine? It is EXTREMELY graphic and sad, but very, very well done.
Jeri, so good to hear that you limit melodrama to your entertainment.
Jeri, so good to hear that you limit melodrama to your entertainment.
The rapist is always at fault, we agree on that. But since human nature is very violent, I should also use my wits to evade the most dangerous situations because if I end up hurt the thought that "he was at fault" wouldn't make me happier.
but Elsa’s motivation of love and her “naive” desire to return into a den of “harassment” to help JJ is a fault buffer for me.
That's what I was referring at when I said a few weeks ago that sweet innocence could cause many problems if it lacks common sense. Imagine three siblings, a brother and two beautiful sisters who live together and lead a solid, decent, comfortable life. They aren't rich but don't need more money either. The brother is an idealistic, adorable, good-hearted, clueless boy who is in love with a girl who's imprisoned innocently. He decides to ask for loan from the mob to pay the lawyer. He gets a huge amount of money but he'll have to pay back double amount later. He can't pay it back, so the mobsters go to their flat, they took the valuable things, do horrible things to the siblings and turn the girls into prostitutes.
It is the brother's fault because he bargained with _obiously_ evil people and it wasn't the matter of life or death.
Blue Valentine: I haven't seen it yet, but I'm looking forward it! :) Oh, Ryan Gosling. I watched True Grit with my father at the weekend and the acting blew my mind. I'm so glad that Jeff Bridges still has a solid career and Matt Damon became such a cool actor.
but Elsa’s motivation of love and her “naive” desire to return into a den of “harassment” to help JJ is a fault buffer for me.
That's what I was referring at when I said a few weeks ago that sweet innocence could cause many problems if it lacks common sense. Imagine three siblings, a brother and two beautiful sisters who live together and lead a solid, decent, comfortable life. They aren't rich but don't need more money either. The brother is an idealistic, adorable, good-hearted, clueless boy who is in love with a girl who's imprisoned innocently. He decides to ask for loan from the mob to pay the lawyer. He gets a huge amount of money but he'll have to pay back double amount later. He can't pay it back, so the mobsters go to their flat, they took the valuable things, do horrible things to the siblings and turn the girls into prostitutes.
It is the brother's fault because he bargained with _obiously_ evil people and it wasn't the matter of life or death.
Blue Valentine: I haven't seen it yet, but I'm looking forward it! :) Oh, Ryan Gosling. I watched True Grit with my father at the weekend and the acting blew my mind. I'm so glad that Jeff Bridges still has a solid career and Matt Damon became such a cool actor.
Jeri, fabulous recap. Love the title.
Bertha: I never thought I'd feel sorry for Bertha when her day of reckoning came, but I do. She looked so young and vulnerable. Adolfo scared the beegeebees out of me and not many TV baddies do that to me. Jules is good. I believes there's a window in Bertha's bedroom. Maybe she can climb out. Or maybe Yolanda will show up.
Ale: Still my favorite dame in this, with her flawed self. Ale sees what we've been seeing all along: that JJ's feelings for Elsa are strong and complicated. Why else would he risk his life for her and be so hostile to Mauricio? Maybe Ale's jealousy and honesty about it will actually trigger JJ to deal with his Elsa-Mauricio issues. Otherwise, I don't see how Elsa can be active in Caramelo's life and she needs to remain her tia.
Limon studies reading at last! Oh happy day.
JJ, enough dangerous loneman stunts. Time to bring in Leo.
Bertha: I never thought I'd feel sorry for Bertha when her day of reckoning came, but I do. She looked so young and vulnerable. Adolfo scared the beegeebees out of me and not many TV baddies do that to me. Jules is good. I believes there's a window in Bertha's bedroom. Maybe she can climb out. Or maybe Yolanda will show up.
Ale: Still my favorite dame in this, with her flawed self. Ale sees what we've been seeing all along: that JJ's feelings for Elsa are strong and complicated. Why else would he risk his life for her and be so hostile to Mauricio? Maybe Ale's jealousy and honesty about it will actually trigger JJ to deal with his Elsa-Mauricio issues. Otherwise, I don't see how Elsa can be active in Caramelo's life and she needs to remain her tia.
Limon studies reading at last! Oh happy day.
JJ, enough dangerous loneman stunts. Time to bring in Leo.
Wow, 60 comments and it was a Monday night, too. Jeri, it must be you.
I think it is delicious watching Adolfo's meltdown. He looks more panicked in each episode. Great acting.
Newbie-OK
I think it is delicious watching Adolfo's meltdown. He looks more panicked in each episode. Great acting.
Newbie-OK
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 6:37:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 6:37:00 PM EST
Jeri and all, Yes, I´m in an Internet cafe with very little time; I tried to watch the links,
but they stopped every 30 seconds, so I happily read the recap which was indeed awesome an powerful.
I thoroughly enjoyed all of the comments. As always, I love Elsa and am disgusted with Ale´s
attitude. If it were not for Elsa and Mau, her beautiful bonbon´s butt would still be in the carcel.
She is a huge diappointment.
but they stopped every 30 seconds, so I happily read the recap which was indeed awesome an powerful.
I thoroughly enjoyed all of the comments. As always, I love Elsa and am disgusted with Ale´s
attitude. If it were not for Elsa and Mau, her beautiful bonbon´s butt would still be in the carcel.
She is a huge diappointment.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 7:46:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 7:46:00 PM EST
Even though I'm sorry Ale let jealously get the better of her, I have to defend her a bit. If your husband risked his life for another woman who was/is in love with him, wouldn't you wonder about his feelings for that woman? As Necie said, risking his life plus his seeming jealousy of Mau seems to show very strong feelings. I also fear that Elsa is still in love with JJ, which is most unfortunate for her. If Elsa can't just be friends with JJ, then she shouldn't be around him. I don't think anyone would think it's a good idea to have their spouse be around someone who is in love with them.
Pascal
Post a Comment
Pascal
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 9:36:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 9:36:00 PM EST
<< Home
© Caray, Caray! 2006-2022. Duplication of this material for use on any other site is strictly prohibited.
