Tuesday, August 30, 2011

La Fuerza del Destino #19 Mon 08/29/11 Maripaz Lies, Lucrezia Lies, Carlota Lies, and Ivan Doesn’t Get Laid

Ivan and Lucia have just been left impactados at Encarnacion’s innocent query about the baby’s well-being. It’s pretty obvious she has no idea what happened to the little guy.

In Alamos, Lucrezia’s returned from the ranch and is surprised to hear Tony came to dine, without her there. And he didn’t come for the deed to the house as the guarantee for his loan either. Carlota coyly says they talked…about things. Lucrezia thinks it’s a perfect love connection! Carly’s a widow, Tony’s a widower. She’s from a good family, he’s RICH. Carly thinks that all Lucrezia thinks about is money. Hell yes, is Lucrezia’s basic reply. Carly tries a bit too late to teach Lucrezia that there are more important things in life, like the love of family and friends. Lucrezia thinks the way she shows her love is by always looking out for the best for the women folk in her family. “Uh, huh. And that’s why you chose your daughters’ boyfriends? And now you’re trying to choose mine? Is that why you turned Maripaz into your spitting image (imagen y semejanza)?” Carly continues to play hard ball. Bringing up Maripaz’s determination to seduce Ivan, the man Lucrezia least wants for her. In this, they are in agreement, because as far as Carly is concerned, Ivan deserves better!

Encarnacion has just heard the story about the baby-napping. She’s horrified, but this is a quiet town where people don’t do that kind of thing. Her husband died years ago, and she updates Lucia on how her kids are doing. They are all obviously past the age Ivan’s child would be. Ivan pushes a bit more, wanting to know if they had any more kids. Nope. Lucia asks why Encarnacion didn’t ever come back after that night. She clarifies that in fact she did, but Lucrezia paid her off and sent her on her way before she could say farewell to anyone.

Maripaz tries to convince Judith to work (oh, the horror) decorating the McGuire house. Judith pushes to find out if this Ivan is the old Ivan, but Maripaz once again denies it. Judith tries to help her brother David out by seeing if there’s any chance of reconciliation on Mari’s part. Mari basically tells her heck no.” He deceived me!” (me defraudar) The honeymoon was the test and he failed. Maybe one day he can be happy with the right person. (You know- a person with a penis.)

In Guaymas, Ivan is giving Encarnacion the shifty eyed glare. She starts to get nervous that they suspect she had some hand in the kidnapping. Ivan says no, but wonders if perhaps her husband did. Encarnacion swears they are God fearing people, and they couldn’t afford another child anyway. Ivan suggests maybe they stole the baby to sell him. Now Encarnacion becomes ticked off. They are decent people! Ask anyone. Lucia tries to smooth things over by letting her know Ivan is the father of the missing baby. Encarnacion still doesn’t think this gives him a right to make such accusations and swears on the Virgin and the lives of people she loves. She lets them see their own way out. That’s one bridge burned.

In the hallway, Ivan leans against the doorframe in despair, and Lucia clasps his hand to comfort him. Back at the hotel, Ivan starts spouting angry accusations about how the Lomeli-Curiels just let someone take off with a baby without notifying the authorities. The baby could have been taken for anything- sold, used for organs! Lucia tries in vain to justify her family’s horridness. Ivan stalks off.

Mari continues to badger Judith into doing her work for her. Judith agrees but then wants info on what Mari knows about Tony McGuire adopting an undocumented Mexican. Could this be Ivan? The same Ivan who disappeared years ago? Maripaz lies again. "I’ve told you a million times, it’s not the same person! I would know.” She calls for the check.

Later, in Casa Meandragon, the family’s all gathered for dinner except David and his wife. JJ wants Saul to work on Sunday, and wants him to get busy working on his wedding to Lucia. Saul reluctantly agrees to work Sunday, but has to break it to dear old dad that there will be no wedding. “Que? She dumped you? Well any girl can see you’re a good for nothing.” Saul tries to convince everyone that he did the dumping because she was cheating on him with some university colleague. JJ wonders how he permitted such a thing. Only a man who didn’t have enough balls (el tamaño/literally "the size”) to put a woman in her place would have this happen. JJ doesn’t know what’s worse—having a son who is a fag like David, or having a son who is an idiot like Saul. What’s this? Esther has had enough. She shouts at JJ that it’s neither Saul's nor David’s faults and leaves the table! JJ is perplexed, but blames it on Saul. He leaves the table too. Judith doesn’t believe Saul that Lucia cheated on him. He sticks to his story and Judith sticks it to him, basically cheering Lucia on. She compares Saul, and men in general, to chewing gum. The lower they are (the closer to the ground), the more they stick to your shoe (annoy the heck out of you). Saul leaves the table too. The only insult he can think of is, “Callate!” She yells back, “Chicle!” (Gum!)

In Guaymas, Ivan has calmed down enough to emerge from sulking in his room. He finds Lucia looking out at the ocean. He tries to make nice by commenting on the beauty of the ocean and asking if she’s eaten yet. She moves to sit on a bench and answers him coldly. He sits next to her and apologizes. She doesn’t want to talk about it, so he changes the subject to her upcoming marriage. She reveals she’s not getting married. He asks why and Lucia pointedly tells him because Saul was bossy (mandon) and rude (grosero). Ivan seems to get that this describes his recent behavior. Lucia continues that at first she thought it was just the bad influence of his father, but then she realized that’s just the way Saul is. They also didn’t have much in common. Ivan’s happy about it and starts listing all of Lucia’s wonderful qualities. Plus he really likes her (me gustas mucho). (In this sense, gustar means a lot more than just to like. There is a definite implication of desire.) Lucia asks, “You like me?” They slowly inch closer together on the bench.
I: Can I give I give you a kiss? (He leans in.)
L: I don’t think that would be a good idea.
I: (Starts stroking the side of her face and her hair.) Yes. It’s a good idea.

They lean their heads together and start circling each other’s lips. And then we have contact! Major snogging on the bench as the sun sets. Ivan pulls away when he sees Lucia is crying and asks her what’s up. Well, doofus, she has been in love with you almost her whole life and has dreamt many times of this moment. He calls her his love and goes in for some more major smooches.

Later, they have a romantic walk back to the hotel, hand in hand. Lucia’s ready to head to her own room to do some girly day dreaming and wants to know what time they’ll meet in the morning to head back to Alamos. Horn dog Ivan has other ideas about sleeping arrangements that night, and out of the blue asks Lucia to make love with him! He knows it’s REALLY soon, and he’s probably just having an emotional reaction to the bad news he received that day, but “te quiero.” (Not quite love. More like, I care for you so much. And also implies desire.) Lucia surprisingly does not slap him, but instead also tells him “te quiero”, but informs him of her virgin status. Ivan seems pleased, and a tiny bit frustrated, at this news. He tells her he’ll wait. They kiss one last time and she heads to her room for girly dreams, while he heads off to cool his jets in front of a fountain. He thinks about the bad news of his missing son, and of Lucia who is taking a bigger place in his heart each day. Lucia stands on her balcony and remembers declaring her love to Ivan as a teen when he declared his love for Maripaz, and then his recent sudden desire to make love to her. She looks pensive.

At Casa Galvan, Carmen is fretting about her possible new job with the McGuires and hoping that Ivan treats her well. Celia doesn’t think she should get her hopes up about a fancy job since she didn’t go to university. Camilo tells Carmen her meeting with Ivan will have to wait since he went to the coast. Celia wants them to go to mass with her to give thanks for all their recent blessings, including the return of Ivan. She also wants to put flowers on her late husband’s tomb. Carmen puts on an attitude before taking Lechita off to bed. Celia complains to Camilo about Carmen’s continued bitter, rebellious ways. It’s her own darn fault she got herself pregnant by some guy who hadn’t even committed to her. Camilo is more sympathetic. He’s sure the guy deceived her into believing he was serious. Surely Celia must know who it was. She denies it.

The next morning Ivan and Lucia leave the hotel. She wants to know what he’s going to do now. He’s going to question her mother, but he doesn’t have much hope that she’ll tell him the truth. He wonders if Maripaz knows anything, but Lucia doubts it. She also refuses to believe her grandmother had anything to do with it. Ivan doesn’t look like he’s buying it, but when Lucia firmly tells him all the ways Carlota tried to have them keep the baby and find the best solution, Ivan relents and apologizes. But he wants her understanding. He’s frustrated and hurt. Lucia tells him to have faith and hope.

At Casa Curiel, Carly’s headed to mass, and Maripaz is all abuzz about her decorating gig at the McGuires. Lucrezia wants an explanation. She doesn’t want Maripaz to have anything to do with Ivan. Mari doesn’t see what the problem is as he’s not just a servant’s son anymore, but an educated, very rich, engineer. Mari’s not buying Lucrezia’s arguments about the past and the baby and all that. She’s always wanted Mari to marry rich, well here’s her chance. Ivan is rich for realz, not like those Meandragons. And he’s a REAL man, unlike David. “Did you sleep with him again?!” (Volviste a acostar con el?) “Si! And when I get divorced I’m going to marry him.” “Never, you hear me! Never! He will never be part of this family.” Lucrezia threatens to let the cat out of the bag about Ivan being a servant’s son. Mari is unphased. Lucrezia decides to pull out the big guns. “You can’t marry him because Ivan is your first cousin!” (primo carnal) That stops Maripaz in her tracks. “Alicia was your grandfather’s illegitimate child, and if you don’t believe me, ask your grandmother.”

Ivan and Lucia arrive at their secret meeting/drop off spot in Alamos. She does not look pleased. He wants to know when they’ll next see each other. She curtly tells him that with his attitude and accusations about her family, she’s sure he doesn’t want to see her. She sees he has lots of resentment/spite (rancor) against them, so she doesn’t think their seeing each other is a good idea. “Lucia, I need you.” She asks him what he’s playing at, ‘cause she knows he’s been seeing her sister too. “You want to play games with both of us and then dump us to get even (desquitarse)?!” Ivan is busted! He can’t deny it. He tries to explain all the anger and rage he felt. He tries to explain the finer points between vengeance (what she believes he wants), and justice (what he thinks he’s after). He lists all the ways the women in her family have done him wrong. He admits to wanting to see her family beg him for his financial help, but Tony has thwarted that little “justice” plan. He lays all his cards on the table and then tries to place blame on Lucia, saying that her goodness has left him without defenses (made him let his guard down), and he should have never taken her to Guaymas. “I was honest with you, and you weren’t honest with me! Give me my suitcase!” She takes off angrily.

In Casa Curiel, Lucrezia spreads Maripaz’s lie that she slept with Ivan. She wants Carly’s help because Mari wants to marry Ivan. Carly is in agreement with Mari that Ivan is all a girl could want in a husband. “Just because he has money doesn’t mean he stops being who he is.” “Yes, the grandson of Teodoro.” Lucrezia admits this is exactly what she told Maripaz.

Ivan moves the sulking to his hotel room where Tony finds him. He tells Tony the bad news about the dead end in Guaymas and Lucrezia’s suspicious behavior. He wouldn’t put anything past that woman. He wants to see her go DOWN! (hundida/sunk) Tony’s not hearing any of this crazy talk if it means Carlota and the girls will also get hurt. What’s wrong with him? Ivan whines some more, and Tony once again accuses him of wanting vengeance. He then asks the 50 Million Dollar question. Why did Ivan take Lucia to Guaymas? Ivan looks a little embarrassed, and a lot ashamed, before he answers.

Lucrezia tries to justify her lie about the kissing cousins to Carly. Carly is not on board. Mari and Ivan are not cousins since she was knocked up by some other guy when Teodoro married her to help her out. If they’re going to reveal something, they’re going to reveal the WHOLE truth. Lucrezia tries the weepy, teary approach. Carly doesn’t understand what the big deal is since Ivan has all that both Lucrezia and Mari have always wanted—MONEY. “I hate him. He destroyed my daughter’s life.” “Just like you destroyed his.” She begs for Carly’s help some more, using the “I’m you’re only child and I know you love me” card. Carly gruffly gives in to the emotional blackmail. “Thank you mama. I love you.” Carly has had enough b.s. and leaves in disgust. Lucrezia gives us a self satisfied smirk. We have just seen how she must have manipulated Carly all these years before she turned to screeching all the time.

Lucia returns home and immediately learns from Mommy Dearest that her idiot sister wants to marry Ivan. This news hits Lucia like a ton of bricks. Meanwhile, Mari is getting the gossip from Granny on how she allowed Grandpa to have a baby with another woman, and forgave him. Carly explains how he was honest with her. That’s why she always protected Alicia and Ivan. Mari says she would have run them off. Carly points out that now it’s Mari who’s running after Ivan. La Mentirosa says it’s the other way around. Ivan is running after HER. Carly is skeptical of how serious Mari is about him. Mari’s dead serious. In addition to now having the proper wealth, Ivan’s the only true man she’s ever had in her life. Carly uses the first cousins lie being the reason they can’t marry (no one mentions that, considering they made a baby together, they already broke that taboo). Since no one but Carly and Lucrezia know, Mari doesn’t see the problem. Carly wants to get real. Is Mari really IN LOVE (enamorada) with Ivan. The word doesn’t quite compute with Mari. She likes/desires him. (me gusta) Isn’t that enough? Carly looks incredulous. She wonders if Ivan feels the same way. “All men are the same.” Mari doesn’t think any of them can resist a pretty woman. Carly warns her not to go slamming into a wall (going after a lost cause).

Tony and Ivan continue their talk. He achieved his objective with Maripaz easily—instigating her divorce and shaming her family and the Mondragon family. She was already thinking about divorce anyway, and he took her out on display publically. He also realized that he no longer has any interest in her. She’s a coldhearted liar, without feeling. Tony asks what Ivan feels for Lucia. Although she’s part of that family, she’s different- good, sincere, loving, and he can’t deny, really beautiful. He’s totally confused about what he feels for her. He likes her (gustar), and he’s attracted to her. Plus, she’s been in love with him since she was little. He loves being with her, talking with her, seeing her laugh. Tony’s not getting what the problem is. If she’s all of these wonderful things, then Ivan shouldn’t hurt her. He denies that hurting her is his intention; he cares about her. Well, if he cares about her, then he should leave her alone. Ivan is sure that it’s she who will not want to see him. He tells Tony about their argument.

Maripaz and Lucrezia keep yapping at each other. Maripaz isn’t concerned about the cousin thing. Ivan’s the only man who can take her out of this misery, and she’s SO over that whole destroying her life by getting her pregnant thing. Lucrezia won’t PERMIT it. “What are you going to do? Hit me?” Lucrezia knows she will think of something. “Butt out Mama. I know you don’t like scandal. If you meddle I will tell everyone that Grandpa had an illegitimate child who was our servant—the mother of Ivan Villagomez.” "Don’t you dare.” “Try me!” (Pon me a prueba!)

In her bedroom, Lucia is telling Gradma Carly about her hot smooches with Ivan and that she thinks he only did it as part of his vengeance scheme. “And then when we got back to the hotel, he proposed that we make love.” Carly looks like she would slap Ivan silly if her were in front of her. Lucia brushes it off as normal these days. “Maybe between novios, but not between two people just getting to know each other.” (Amen Carly.) Lucia naively says she and Ivan have known each other for years. Carly wants the goods. Lucia didn’t do it, right? “No.” Huge sigh of relief from Carly.

JJ is gazing at his favorite person, himself, as usual. David dares to enter the lion’s den. He refuses to call Maripaz, says he’s in agreement about the divorce, and dares JJ to hit him. JJ obliges. David sticks to his guns. When Esther tries to intervene, JJ raises his hand to slap her. Much to his surprise, David restrains his pimp slapping hand. He can’t believe David is defending Esther after she turned him into a fag. David defends his mother and himself, laying the blame for his problem on JJ. “Don’t come to me with that bullsh*t! If you’re not a man, that’s your problem!” He threatens his son and wife again, and gives a terrified Judith a firm, non-affectionate, pat on the cheek, before taking off. David assures Esther that everything will be alright.

Lucia continues to tell Carly about her theory of Ivan playing games with both her and Maripaz at the same time, to get even. If Maripaz thinks she and Ivan are getting married, Ivan must have done something to lead her to that conclusion. Carly’s not convinced since Mari creates fantasies that she herself starts believing all the time. Ivan’s not stupid. Lucia is pissed off and hurt because she really cares about him. Carly thinks Ivan is just confused and needs time to heal. Lucia’s not so sure. She asks Carly if she thinks there’s any way Lucrezia would have paid someone to kidnap the baby. Carly doesn’t think so… although Lucrezia IS capable of anything. Lucia says that Ivan feels the same. She wants Carly to try to get the truth out of Lucrezia.

Later, Carly calls Tony to talk about those crazy kids/grandkids. They agree to meet in front of the church tomorrow at 1. Carly finds Lucrezia in one of the bedrooms screeching about the servant’s clothes folding abilities. She immediately starts the interrogation about why Lucrezia dismissed the servant at the Guaymas house the morning after the kidnapping, without telling them she had returned. Lucrezia denies, denies, denies. Carly says Tony has been investigating in Guaymas and got in touch with Encarnacion. Carly demands to know if Lucrezia paid someone to steal the baby. She threatens to tell Tony that part of the ranch belongs to Alicia and Ivan if Lucrezia doesn’t tell her the truth. Lucrezia admits to letting them continue to think Encarnacion took the baby so that they wouldn’t insist on getting the police involved, but she had nothing to do with the baby’s disappearance. She begs Carly to believe her.

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Comments:
I'm liking Carlota mostly, but then I find out she's hiding info about Ivan owning part of the ranch and maybe about the baby, too, from Tony - so if she and Tony are going to be in love (and we know they are) How will this betrayal of his adopted son be accepted by Tony?
 

Thank you, Vivi. What a thorough and fun recap!

I'm having trouble with Carlota caving to crazy Lucrezia on the "kissing cousins" (love that) lie. She can be fiercely truthful at some times and get involved in the web of lies at other times.

Ivan was not at his best last night. Revenge doesn't become this character in the least. Maybe the fact that Tony came into his life and that he has lived with love and support as a young adult makes it hard to understand his hatefulness. Good for Lucia to demand something better from him.

I guess we'll see some betrayals of Ivan coming from Carmelo, who has heard just about enough from his mother about the sainted Ivan.

I predict that David's problem will solve itself the more he stands up to his father. Not exactly modern psychology, but perhaps telenovela psychology in action.

Lots of interesting conflicts coming up tonight!
 

Thanks for the reacap!!! Great stuff!
 

Great stuff. Methinks Judith will have a lot more spine than either of her brothers in the long term because she isn't taking any BS.

Maripaz only loves Maripaz. This is not going to change. She and her equally selfish mother will be like scorpions stinging each other up to the finale.

This opens a question: Is it egotistical for a woman to describer herself as beautiful?
 

Vivi, great recap, thank you. Fun to read and explains all the scenes, good job!
OK, did Lucrezia have something to do with stealing the baby or did Carlota? I can't imagine Lucrezia allowing it to end up with her husband, but Carlota would.
 

Vivi, I really enjoyed your recap this am. You covered all the scenes beautifully.

I especially appreciated your explanations of the distinctions between "gustar" and "querer". I was mentally picturing a "lovemeter" with the degrees of feeling. Temperatures do seem to be rising.

I find the justice/vengeance debate interesting. At what point does the desire for justice cross that line?

Sondie
 

Wonderful recap Vivi as always ...

EMarie, neither Lucrezia nor Carlotta had anything to do with the baby-napping ... Gerry acted solo ...

Myo -
 

Sheila and Traveling Lady: I agree with you about Carlota. She is a good person at heart, but many times when it comes to choosing between right and wrong, if her daughter or family is involved she’ll choose wrong, or less right. I don’t think this tn is going to give us any characters who are 100% good. So even good guy Carlota will have plenty of begging for forgiveness to do.

Traveling Lady: Ivan certainly was NOT at his best. So true. Did he really expect Lucia to say yes to his proposal? And did he expect her to still want to spend every moment with him after he basically admitted to wanting to bring her family to their knees in front of him and humiliate them? How can he expect her to believe anything he says about his feelings for her is real/truthful?

Urban: Judith may sit quietly in the background, but she’s gathering info and keeping it locked in her brain. She hasn’t yet done anything to earn her father’s wrath like her brothers and mother. I wonder how she’ll react when she actually has to confront him about something. I was proud of David and Esther though. Seems they are both reaching their breaking point with JJ. Last night showed just how similar Maripaz and Lucrezia are. They both even used the same type of blackmail threats last night to get what they want. Carlota is right that Mari is just a min Lucrezia. But whose fault is it that Lucrezia turned out the way she did? Hmmmm Carlota?

Emarie: I’m pretty sure at this point that neither Lucrezia nor Carlota had anything to do with the baby’s disappearance. However, Ivan’s not sure of that, and with good reason. What they are both guilty of is not calling the police when the baby went missing. I think that’s a pretty big legal and moral lapse on their part. Carlota eased her conscience by choosing to believe the nice maid took him. But since Lucrezia saw Encarnacion the next day, she knew that wasn’t the case but chose to cover that up. Therefore, she’s even more guilty than Carlota because she knew some stranger must have taken the baby. I don’t think any of them could imagine Gerry doing the deed.
 

Sondie-

I wish English had more nuanced words to distinguish between all these feelings like Spanish does. It's not only the words, but also the tone of voice and look in the eyes that help give the meanings of gustar, querer, amar.

Last night the conversations between Ivan-Tony, Ivan-Lucia, Lucia-Carlota, and Carlota-Maripaz covered the whole spectrum between desire, physical attraction, liking someone as a person, liking someone in a romantic way, having affection for someone, loving someone, and being IN LOVE with someone (a much deeper profound love).
 

Myo and Vivi- yes, your explanations have to be it. Ger was behind the kidnapping, and Lucrezia, was incredibly callous, covered it up by paying the maid because she was just glad the baby was gone (didn't know where or who, didn't care) and didn't want an investigation.
Between gustar, querer, or amar, Ivan clearly indicated what started out to be revenge ended with him, in his surprise, realizing Lucia is his true love. At least that is how I interpreted it. ? Anyone else see this?
 

Emarie-

The way Ivan was talking about Lucia as he described her to Tony, certainly sounds like true love. But I don't think he realizes it yet. He's super confused. He's gone from seeing Lucia as a little girl, to seeing her as an attractive woman, to admiring her goodness and the way she makes him feel, to desiring her physically, to depending on her emotionally (he even told her he needs her). I don't think he can come to terms with all of these feelings at once and what they mean (love).

Lucia, on the other hand, is having a different experience. The pure love she has always felt for Ivan, whom she put up on a pedestal, is being tainted/muddled by physical desire and baser feelings like resentment and vengeance. The initial rush and excitement she felt at his kisses is fading away as she takes into account all of the baggage Ivan is bringing into this.
 

Vivi may I say this ... your recaps are masterpiece and your commentaries on Ivan and Lucia feelings are simply poetic ... I concur ....

Myo-
 

I find the whole dynamic between Ivan and Lucia very interesting. Since he knew her as a little girl the 10-year separation was necessary for him to see her as an adult now. But I think that his desire for revenge will morph into something else.

Living well is the best revenge and he certainly can live well now.

Revenge leading to love is such a popular novela theme, isn't it? Ivan should be comparing notes with Jeronimo of CME and the Reyes brothers to get the benefit of their experiences.

Did anyone else think of Benito when Incarnation said her husband was a gardener?

Tony will not like the fact that Carlota is hiding this important detail about Ivan's life. However, Ivan won't be in the dark much longer. Maripaz can't keep her mouth shut about anything.
 

Urban-

I have been thinking about this revenge to love theme and wondering why I was so ticked off at Jero in CME for his plot, vs Ivan. I didn't see most of FELS, but I'm guessing the boys wanted revenge on the girls' mother, like Ivan here. I think what made Jero so much worse is that he believed Nata was this evil person, he isolated her, cut her off from friends and family, refused his affections, would turn to being ugly and cruel to her suddenly, and at points looked like he would turn the mental abuse into physical abuse. With Ivan, he knows Lucia is good and is aware that he's being a bit misguided. He's also tender and loving with her, even as he's voicing his anger about her family. He's even being nicer to Maripaz (the woman who used him and separated him from his child) than Jero was to Nata.

Myo- Thanks for those nice words. This blog is my guilty pleasure. I love speculating on matters of love, revenge, and redemption with such a great group of folks.
 

Vivi, the Reyes brothers blamed the Elizondo family for their sister's death. In the two previous series with this story she committed suicide, but in FELS she was brutally murdered.

It didn't take them too long to figure out that none of the three sisters could or would have done the crime, but their mother was another story. She made Lucrezia look like kid stuff. My thinking through that whole series was that their best revenge would have been to marry the three sisters, have kids, and live happily ever after right under Gabriela's nose. Although Gabriela met a fitting end this would have driven her right into the nuthouse.
 

Vivi what a fantastic recap! I love how you have identified all the nuances of the characteres.

I was right there with you and Carlota being bothered by Iván asking Lucía to be with him so soon. He is just starting to know her as a woman.

I think the Curiel dynamic is pretty interesting. They live in the north, where men like JJ tend to be the strong family leaders, unlike in the south where a strong matriarch is more common, like Rosario in Mi Pecado (shot in Chiapas). Yet, these women are all living together and they all have pretty strong characteres (and some toxic ones aswell) and have found a way to continue living together without killing each other or truly making each other miserable. Yes, Lucrecia was shoving JJ's sons to her daughters but Lucía was eventually going to break up with Saúl and Maripaz would have still divorced David.

Now, enters Iván and he is coming to change their dynamic.

Urban: Was Sherlyn the sister? And she was pregnant or something? I think I saw the begining and it's not the same as Las Aguas Mansas, you are right.

Jarocha
 

Even though Maripaz has quite the ego, you have to admit that she is beautiful when she smiles with that clueless joy as she she thinks she's getting her way. Joy at her divorce. Joy at marrying her rich cousin. Joy joy joy.

And how did Judith turn out so well? Looks like she may have a backbone after all, calling out Saul and taking a (gasp!) JOB! That design job may be the best thing for her. Thanks Maripaz (decorating joy)!
 

Thanks for your recap Vivi. I've been slowly reading past recaps and so far I enjoy this TN! And thank you for your explanations of "gustar," "querer" and "amor" The nuances of those terms are what make Spanish a romance language as opposed to the Teutonic English. Finally I really enjoyed your examination of biblical names (the book of Judith was new to me as a Protestant)!

I was happy to see Esther and David stand up to JJ. I hope they continue to do so.
 

Jarocha! How's school going in D.F.?

Thanks for the information about the dynamics of families in the North of Mexico vs. in the South (Mi Pecado was a great example). Yes, the Curiel women are fascinating. In many ways, men don't belong in that family. They seem to have found some peace after Gerry left. And now Ivan is back throwing a disturbance into the force. Perhaps Carly has learned that by giving in to Lucrezia once in a while, she helps keep things balanced in their household.
 

ViviDC: Thanks for the terrific detail--and the asides this time were spot on! Where in the heck does Ivan get the chutzpah to mention going to bed with Lucia when he only that day admitted to his attraction for her? We're talking small town Mexico here, not the D.F.! I don't understand why Lucia didn't take offense. Maybe there's something wrong with me and I've been watching these things wayyyyyy too long.
 

Hi Vivi!


School is going well, I have classes all week and on Saturdays too. I've also now changed from working with my program director as a research assistant to an assistant at our Center for European Studies and Business. It's so much fun! But I'm busier than ever because I have a steady schedule now (and an office). But I took this opportunity because it would allow me to meet more people on my field and so far its been great.

Differences from north to south are very clear to anybody who would visit, the people are very different in demeanor, they are usually more direct, and more formal and conservative. There's very little indigenous population and the ones they do have prefer to stay in their own villages. There's alot of money over there, so their living conditions are much better in general than in the south. Even the nature is different.

By the way, I don't think I've seen people mentioning but Ferdinando Valencia and Laisha Wilkins are putting a local accent. I wonder if anyone has noticed. It's not an obvious accent because this is not a comedy (where pronunciation is usually exaggerated).

Jarocha
 

I think deep down Lucia wanted to be with Ivan if the circumstances were different; her expression and her conversation later with Carlota were not of repulsion or offence; she was more surprised by the sudden desire from Ivan and the fact that would be her first time makes her think it twice.

Maripaz is so clueless and so off base about her and Ivan; it makes my head hurt ... she's all like "I have him eating out of my hands and we'll be married soon" while she's not even registered on his radar.

While Lucia pegged Ivan about his true motive in a nano second and called him on it.

Myo-
 

HA...Thanks , Vivi. You pretty much covered the whole episode in that title !
 

Very funny title, Vivi. Yes, lying is so easy for Maripaz and Lucrecia. Carlota lies for her daughter when she knows she shouldn't. Keeping Alicia and Ivan out of the loop about their inheritance is a pretty big whopper of a lie to keep.

Maybe Ivan has been celibate for 10 years and so used bad judgment in his offensive request to Luisa. Ivan, you might want to ask Luisa out out on a date first.

GinCA
 

Jarocha and UA,In Fuego en la Sangre, The Hermanos Reyes wanted to avenge their sister Libia's death. They had fire in the blood in their quest for burning revenge over the murder. Libia (Sherlyn) was pregnant with Don Bernardo's child when she was strangled by Fernando Escandon.

The 3 brothers intended to romance the 3 sisters as part of their vengeance and then dump them and break their hearts but Fate has a funny way of thwarting their plans because the 3 brothers eventually really fell in love with the 3 sisters after getting to know them and realizing the goodness they had in themselves. The 3 sisters were sequestered and isolated similar to Judith is now treated by JJ.

Ivan in our story here, intends to get his refvenge on the Lomeli-Curiel family by romancing both sisters and pitting both of them against each other whereas in FELS, it is 3 on 3. Ivan as we know was deeply in love with Maripaz and now is in love with Lucia. So, revenge will somehow be redirected towards Lucrezia in that she just hates to see Ivan with any of her daughters no matter how rich and powerful Ivsn has become.

Jarocha, it is interesting to see the differences between the northern and southern Mexican families. Zona norteno is a bit different now that you explained it. Most of us would never notice a difference.

Okay, back to the relatins between Primo Carnal. We need a Venn diagram for this. Lucrecia is carlota's daughter through some other guy. Alicia is Teodoro's daughter with some other woman while married to Carlota. Teodoro raises Lucrecia as his own. So there is no blood relationship between Ivan and Maripaz. We can see how Lucrecia could be confused because she may not have realized that she was not Teodoro's biological child.

Ibarramedia
 

Ibarramedia- Lucrezia knows she's lying to Maripaz. That's why she pressured Carlota to not tell the "whole" truth to Maripaz. Basically, not to mention that she (Lucrezia) is not the bio child of Teodoro, meaning no blood ties between Ivan and Maripaz.
 

At the end of the day there is no incestous relationship between Maripaz and Ivan since they are not blood relatives. This would not be the case if Teodora was Lucrecia's biological father. Oy, what a mess. lol. Apologies again for all my past, present and future typos. Can't edit stuff here unlike regular messageboards. BTW thanks for a great recap Vivi. :)


Ibarramedia
 

Ibarramedia- Do you have a "guy's" opinion on Ivan moving so fast with Lucia?
 

I had to reconstruct the last paragraph from my previous post since it was swallowed up and lost. I realized Vivi posted in between them.......

Yes Lucrezia knows he is lying to Maripaz.....

I think Carlota is somehow trapped or powerless to really stop Lucrecia from her crazy plans otherwise she would have done something. I don't know about her being an accomplice. I think it is more of a reluctant and powerless objector. We see from the very beginning that Lucrezia has the power and wears the pants in the family. Carlota is just a respected but voiceless and powerless "matriarch". She certainly has more say than Esther does in her family but Carlota does not have the kind of influence that Carlota does.



Ibarramedia
 

"Ibarramedia- Do you have a "guy's" opinion on Ivan moving so fast with Lucia?"

Vivi, is is lust and love combined pure and simple. Even good guys have uh, urges and desires. Does not mean we won't treat her nice and just use her.

As you guys discussed the different meanings of love and desire, Ivan has both. :D

Funny thing iin FELS there was a scene between Juan and Sofia where they both scream to each other "Te Amo" and "Te Quiero" 3 times. It think it was by the river.

Even if a guy is not filled with lust, he simply wants to express his love to Lucia, but of course the women won't buy that explanation. ***Shrugs shoulders*** What do you think Jarocha and Vivi? Do you agree or not? I don't know if Aribeth is around but she may have an interesting viewpoint in all this.

Even Ivan is allowed to ahve a little flaw and lapse of judgement in character. If he was too perfect, the he would not be so believable.



Ibarramedia
 

Ibarramedia- Love and lust combined. He was going on pure emotion and hormones. I'll buy that. It was a lapse of judgement on his part, but I can see how it wasn't creepy or him trying to take advantage of the situation.
 

I'm mixing up my novela characters...should be Lucia not Luisa from Teresa. Anyway, they are both good girls. Regarding FELS, it was so bad but fun for the snark it warranted in the recaps/comments.

GinCA
 

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