Thursday, August 04, 2011

La Fuerza del Destino #2 Wed 08/03/11 Arguments and their Refrains, for Emphasis during la Semana de Estreno

Recap by Urban Anthropologist
My debut isn't up to my standards, but I need to go out and didn't want to delay this until this afternoon. I don't have subtitles on my TV and my Spanish isn't perfect, so please bear with me.

Refrito: Alicia gets the warning about being too innocent, followed by her talking to Ivan about how she hopes his father will pay for his education.

Señor Juan Don't-Dare-Defy-Me is not pleased to see Ivan with Alicia, commenting on how she has to take care he doesn't become a delinquent. Ivan starts to defend himself but Juan DDDM leads Alicia inside to make his indecent proposal. He tries to force his attentions on her and Ivan runs in to stop him. He shoves him into the metal shelves, which come crashing down on Ivan.


Nuevo:

Juan Don't-Dare-Defy-Me picks up Ivan and says “Don't mess with me” in a threatening voice.

At poolside Lucrezia talks about Maripaz being 12 and that she will be sent to a boarding school in the US. “Won't you miss her?” asks Esther. “Of course it will hurt,” says Lucrezia (yeah, right), “but she will learn manners, English, etc.” I didn't get what Doña Carlota said about gringos except the possibility that Maripaz will acquire one as a novio. Lucrezia asks about Juan DDDM, and Esther responds that he's at the ranch over some problems.

Alicia goes after Ivan, telling him that she and his father haven't done anything bad, that he should have his studies so he can make a good living and be able to look after his family (that he doesn't have yet) as God dictates. Ivan wants nothing from him, stating that all he really is looking for is to debauch Alicia. She tells him “So what? He's the only man I ever knew [in the Biblical sense] in my life.” Ivan asks whether she loves his sperm donor and she tells him “No, of course not” but that he could be paying for his home, food, education. Ivan wants nothing from him and furthermore, never wants to see him again. He almost runs away, Alicia following him.

Back at the pool, Esther talks about how Juan Don't-Dare-Defy-Me is ill-tempered and insulting, that he does horrible things, and that he prefers Saul. Lucrezia offers that this is because he's the oldest and the most like him and Esther reminds her that this is the child of his first wife*. Lucrezia seems to accuse Esther of loving her own son too much; Doña Carlota says something about Juan Don't-Dare-Defy-Me being a drug addict (it was blipped out) and Esther leaves, obviously not wanting to continue the conversation. Lucrezia says something about her being a fool; Doña Carlota says that doesn't mean that Juan Don't-Dare-Defy-Me is allowed to be a beast. She jokes about how there should be a boxing ring in that house. They then argue again about Alicia and her status and how Lucrezia will never accept her as her father's daughter.

Sunset. Alicia interrupts Ivan's studies to try to explain the facts of life about poverty. She tells him that his pride scares her. This concludes with her agreeing that they will make it on their own.

The next day in school Maripaz shows a friend that she now wears a brassiere. Ivan tells Camilo about the previous night's conversation with his mother and how he will provide for her in the future.

Ivan and Camilo walk home from school through what appears to be the red-light district while Juan Don't-Dare-Defy-Me orders Alicia to leave her job because he is acquainted with the family she works for. He reminds her she could have everything paid for, but she refuses. He insists she pack her things and leave (what a tool). He wants the presidency of an association and can't afford scandal. Now, if she doesn't tell anyone how will they find out?

He's not backing down and neither is Alicia. After he leaves Ivan arrives home and he and Alicia talk about Juan DDDM. She tells him not to worry.


*Author's note: How on earth did this man manage to persuade two women to marry him?



After a few words from our sponsors, Juan Don't-Dare-Defy-Me and Lucrezia talk about business and modernization, including doing business with gringos.

Alicia and Ivan talk about how Juan DDDM wants to avoid gossip because he's looking to become president of his professional association. More of the same and Ivan goes out by the pool.

Maripaz and Lucia have an argument in front of Ivan, whom Maripaz insults by calling him the son of a servant. Lucia expresses some frustration at her sister's snobbery.

Lucrezia and Juan DDDM talk business and appear to flirt. They have history and both married for reasons other than love. Excuse me while I head to the vomitorium.

Juan DDDM and Ivan have the same conversation about money and college. Juan DDDM mocks Ivan, saying the best he can hope to be is an electrician or mechanic. Ivan lets him know what he thinks of him and Gerardo comes out to see what's going on. Juan DDDM tells him he had come to see Lucrezia and she's prettier every time.

We can't have heard that correctly.

Doña Carlota, Lucrezia, and Gerardo talk about Juan DDDM's ambition to be president of the association. Gerardo says he'd rather vote for Dr Menendez. When Lucrezia mocks Menendez as being old, the argument starts. When Lucrezia praises Juan DDDM's business skills and thinking Gerardo loses it, finally accusing her of being in love with Juan DDDM. “'Of course I'm not in love with anybody” is her verbal response. Gerardo gets the full meaning of that message and leaves the room; Doña Carlota conveys that if he has another woman soon it's Lucrezia's fault.



Commercial break over and I'm back after brushing my teeth and rinsing out with Scope.

While cleaning the stove, Alicia gets a phone call from Juan Don't-Dare-Defy-Me saying he expects her to be in front of the house in 5 minutes or else he will bother her the rest of her live. He tells her that Ivan is threatening to tell everyone he is his father. I didn't catch the comment about Gerardo, but he further orders her to leave.

Alicia confronts Ivan with the accusation; he denies it saying Juan DDDM can't order him round, hates him and is ashamed of him. We briefly see the adult Ivan saying he will kill him.

Doña Carlota and Lucrezia argue about Gerardo, whom Lucrezia has accused of stubbornness. Doña Carlota tells her she is the stubborn one and a fool for not appreciating what a good man he is for putting up with her BS for 13 years. Lucrezia says something about Gerardo being of poco character and gets reproached by her mother (details, por favor?) who tells her that one needs patience and a good disposition in marriage. Lucrezia tells her that she has no right to judge her life or offend her. Doña Carlota tells her she'll say what it pleases her to say, then notices that Gerardo is within earshot. She wishes her daughter good night.

Lucrezia apologises to Gerardo. Not. He's no tonta, saying “No te apures.”

Alicia cries about the events of the day. In the morning she explains to Ivan that they will leave to go back to live with his godmother, which pleases him. She then talks to the maid, who asks whether Lucrezia has made it difficult for her – we bet she has -- and she says no. They will leave today. Ivan heads to school, accepting Gerardo's offer for a ride. They talk about school and Ivan confides his ambition to become an engineer. Gerardo is one and the two bond.

.

Doña Carlota and her housekeeper talk about Alicia's impending departure. Doña Carlota asks whether this is about a novio, but the housekeeper believes the voice on the phone was that of Juan Don't-Dare-Defy-Me, which gets the patrona's attention.

Doña Carlota walks in as Alicia talks on the phone with Juan DDDM, having to defend Ivan from the word escuincle, finally telling him they're leaving but not with him. She has not yet told her employers. Doña Carlota enters on the tail end of this and takes the phone only to hear Juan DDDM's voice yelling at Alicia. She calmly says “Yes, Juan Jaime, it's me.” He doesn't like this; we are amused.

Doña Carlota tells Alicia she's always said that Juan DDDM is a pig. Alicia is afraid he will kill her or Ivan, but Doña Carlota tells her not to be foolish, that men will take advantage of women's fear. ”Perro que lada no muerde” (Spelling and translation, por favor) She is not to be in a hurry. Alicia tells her it's better that they leave and she can get another job. Doña Carlota asks whether she thinks it's that easy and whether she thinks another employer will accept that she has un hijo (natural? It was blipped out). At least she doesn't want a troglodyte like Juan DDDM to take away what's hers. “Don't dance to his tune,” she says. “Just stay in the kitchen till I get back.”

I like this lady.

Ivan and Camilo talk about Ivan and Alicia returning to Tampico. No matter where Alicia would work here it would be the same; Juan DDDM wants Alicia for a mistress and doesn't want her to work. Camilo's mother has a cousin in that state, but Ivan won't have it for his mother. He speaks well of Gerardo.

Alicia cries as she prays in the kitchen. Lucrezia enters and asks what's wrong. Alicia tells her “Nothing, I was cutting onions.” (which she was). Lucrezia asks about her mother's whereabouts and Alicia told her that Doña Carlota has gone out.

Doña Carlota blackmails Juan DDDM. Everyone except his wife knows he once took advantage of a servant girl on his ranch. He tells her he respects her but that she has no right to interfere in his private life. She tells him yes, but he has no right to interfere with Alicia. He should at least acknowledge Ivan but she know he doesn't want to. In exchange for him leaving Alicia and Ivan alone she and her family will keep quiet about his relationship to them. He asks “What about your daughter, son-in-law, Alica, or the boy?” She tells him she won't talk, Alicia is too afraid to, and the boy won't do this behind his mother's back. Lo siento, but I didn't get the rest.

Doña Carlota assures Alicia that all is well; she is just not to tell anyone that Juan DDDM is Ivan's father and the boy is also to say nothing. She is also not to tell of her relationship to Doña Carlota 's deceased husband. Alicia thanks her and tells her that won't be an issue. Lucrezia enters and her mother lies about where she had gone. When Alicia leaves to get the tea they talk about the secret. Lucrezia doesn't like this; that Ivan is the cousin of her daughters and has rights.

Juan Don't-Dare-Defy-Me insults Ivan's intelligence by telling him that he is offering him and his mother a decent life, but that he (Ivan) prefers to live in porqueria. That suits him; he sees that Ivan will be a delinquent. He then says something about Ivan telling people he is his son. Ivan tells him that he doesn't want to be his son and that he hates him. I didn't get the rest, but he made Ivan cry. Excuse me while I take a shower during the commercial break; this man makes me feel dirty.


FF: Señor McGuire introduces the adult Ivan to Juan Don't-Dare-Defy-Me as his son. It doesn't look as though the evil one recognizes Ivan; he says something about having a son the same age.

FB: Alicia tells the teenage Ivan Doña Carlota got Juan DDDM off their case. He is not to tell anyone that he is his father and he is to thank Doña Carlota. He goes to do so and she asks him about school. He tells her all is well. She is pleased not just because he will be successful one day but because it will be a slap in the face to his patan of a father. Lucia enters wanting to flirt with Ivan, but he exits to study. She is disappointed but Doña Carlota assures her that boys that age aren't much into girls. Someday, however...

A few days later in the park Ivan and Camilo watch Maripaz pass by as a third – slightly older -- boy joins them. They talk in general terms about girls.

Later, Lucia brings Ivan a piece of white cake while he talks to the gardener. She flirts with him, telling him that Maripaz has a novio named Fernando. But don't tell anyone! She shows interest in him and he gently teases her, as she is too young for a novio, but he feeds her a bite of the cake and hugs her in a brotherly way. She heads back to the house and tells Maripaz that she has a novio, too. Upon the revelation that it's Ivan, Maripaz comments nastily that he is a servant's child.

Ivan finds a black puppy and gently zips it inside his jacket as Maripaz approaches him with an attitude. He tells her that he isn't actually Lucia's novio but if she says anything to her mother he'll tell about Fernando. She's satisfied but sends mixed messages. She flirt-smiles at him while asking who would want him because of his poverty and bad clothes. He tells her that he's the top of his class and a good futbol player. She says well, since he's not exactly ugly he might look handsome in better clothes. She fails to notice the puppy.

Real material girl. Madonna would be proud of her. So would Aida of Teresa.

Ivan brings the puppy into the kitchen hoping to find some food for him. Despite Alicia's concerns, Gerardo gives Ivan permission to keep the dog provided that he bathes him and takes him to the vet for his shots. Also that there are no problems. Ivan thanks him and exits happily with the puppy.

Alicia tells Gerardo she doesn't want this to annoy Lucrezia. He tells her that Lucrezia gets annoyed over anything. He then tells her that Ivan is a good boy and asks “You said his father died?” Alicia awkwardly answers “Yes, he died” as she continues cooking. He comments on how it must have been hard to raise him as a single mother, but she says something about Ivan being no trouble. He tells her that if she needs anything to come to him rather than his wife. Hmmmmm......

As Alicia predicted, Lucrezia hits the ceiling over the dog, saying they're filthy and make things dirty. I think Gerardo responds that it's a pedigree dog, but didn't get the entire sentence about the garden. Besides, the boy will take care of it. Lucia is excited but Lucrezia says “no” again but Doña Carlota overrules her, saying that her husband allows this. Lucrezia caves but says that if anything goes wrong, the dog goes and the servants with it.

This does not bode well, as usual.

Lucrezia and Doña Carlota argue again about Alicia. Lucrezia describes Alicia as proof that her father betrayed her mother. Doña Carlota tells her that her husband had always treated both of them well. Lucrezia goes on about the will and how everyone would be laughing behind their backs. Doña Carlota doesn't want to talk about this anymore. She feels guilty about it, but Lucrezia doesn't. She doesn't like her mother's reminder that Ivan is the only male grandchild. Alicia is illegitimate and so is her son. Doña Carlota reminds her that the world is full of children not legally recognized and “What you can't accept is that in the veins of Alicia and Ivan is the blood of your father.” I couldn't make out Lucrezia's response.

Maripaz tells Ivan about her mother sending her to convent school in the US because she thinks the schools are better there. Maripaz isn't happy about this, being locked up with nuns and away from her friends. She'd rather be with her friends here. Ivan tells her he doesn't want her to go and kisses her, but on the cheek.

Great theme song by our leading lady and my homeboy, Mark Anthony.


Avances
The rivalry of the sisters begins. This will get ugly very fast.

-Urban Anthroplogist

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Comments:
Fantastic recap UA!!! Just great.

"Juan Dare-Don't-Defy-Me" is perfect!!! (And sort of rhymes with "Jaime" ...well played!)

I love your asides about personal hygiene. This guy really does make you feel defiled just watching him.

I think Carlota said: Perro que ladra no muerde. It's like his bark is worse than his bite. Literally the barking dog doesn't bite. (Although I think this particular dog barks AND bites.)

I also want to say that during Lucrezia and Juan DDDM's flirty conversation he playfully yet somewhat seriously suggested a little "aventura". Did I catch that right? Blech.

I am enjoying the balance of really evil (Juan DDDM), Bad to the Bone (Lucrezia, future Maripaz) and Pure of heart (Lucia, Gerardo, Alicia) and the Well-intentioned (Carlota) I'm not sure what Ivan is yet. I'm not ready to put him in the "pure of heart" category due to his anger and death threat. Any suggestions?

The dialogue blips are driving me crazy. I realize what they are saying is deemed "inappropriate" for TV audiences, but it just breaks my concentration. There seems to be a lot of them in this show.
 

UA great and wonderful recap thank you.

Juan DDDM whatever did these women see in him i know us women out number the men but still if picking were that slim. I would have remained celibate.

I liking the theme song for this too.

Slowly but surely this is getting that nasty after taste out of mouth left from TDA.
 

Urban- What a great first official recap! You got pretty much everything. Sara is right about the barking dog saying, but I agree with her that I think JJ also bites.

I really like teen Ivan and will be sad to see him go. This is the same actor that played pre-teen Juan DD in Corazon Salvage and pre-teen Julian in Mi Pecado. He's been in a ton of other tns too. He's a better actor each time I see him. He has a bright future for sure.

JJ is making a bitter enemy in the way he's treating his illegitimate son. But I could say the same for the way he is treating his youngest legit son too. Seems that he only favors his eldest son from his first marriage. I, like you, am also shocked he got two women to marry him. I think he got his lovers, like Alicia, through coercion and threats, so that's not surprising. I'm surprised he doesn't have more bastards around.

I like Carlota, but I hope she someday turns against her daughter publicly to give Ivan (we know Alicia won’t make it) what is owed to him. Surely, once Ivan is back as an adult, someone will notice the resemblance between him and Teodoro.

Secrets and who knows:
-Alicia is Teodoro’s child: Alicia, Carlota, Lucrecia
-Ivan is JJ’s child: Alicia, Ivan, JJ, Carlota, Celia and her whole family
-Teodoro left part of his land/fortune to Alicia: Carlota, Lucrecia, lawyer
-Lucrecia illegally borrowed money on land that is not all hers: Carlota, Lucrecia, Curiel family lawyer
 

UA--thank you for an entertaining and very complete recap.

I too am loving the younger actors and actresses. They are doing a super job!

I am almost breathless at the pace so far. The doldrums of Triunfo make me forget what a well-written, fast paced tn was like.

Sondie
 

Urban~~~~Thanks for that great recap. I like this show so far. The adolescent Ivan is a very good actor. Those darkframed glasses give him a Junior Superman vibe. I've noticed that he sometimes whips them off when he is telling someone [Dreadful Daddy] off. I also like Dona Carlota. You do not want to mess with this mujer. The housekeeper keeps her informed about wHat's happening. They are kind of a dynamic team . I love the actor playing Gerardo . [Felipe in Alborada.] It looks like he is attracted to the sweet, unassuming Alicia who is the polar opposite of his harpy wife. He also seems to be taking young Superivan under his wing. By the way, is the actress playing Lucrezia the same person playing the magistrate's gossipy wife in Alborada ? As for JJ getting two women to marry him...maybe he raped them and they married him because they got pregnant. Why else would any woman marry a dud like this dude ?
 

Thanks for the recap!

ITA about JJ making you feel dirty. Wow, the looks he gave in last night's episode are still giving me the heebie-jeebies. As for the two wives, Alicia thought she was in love with him 15 years ago... so I assume he is a master manipulator when he wants to be and a total A-hat when he knows he has the upper hand.

Also, I believe the older boy talking about girls with Camilo & Ivan was Camilo's older brother. He doesn't do things legitimately and I bet that comes into play later in the story.
 

Blusam-I'm afraid I am *still* hung up on the theme for TdA. Maybe this one will grow on me.

Vivi-Lucrezia is NOT Teo's blood daughter, right? Is that a secret? If she's not, I wonder if the real bio dad will figure into the story or not.

As for JJ getting two women to marry him. I say they were weak (look at Esther.) Definitely they were from good families. My guess is maybe they were the less favored daughters of some important families and Juan DDDM wanted them simply for the connection/power they offered him. Plus, as was said, he *can* be charming if he wants to be.

Carlota is so far my fave. That mujer as got spunk.

As I watch this one (and I know it's only 2 episodes) I am really pleased with the acting. Sometimes subtle, sometimes over the top....but perfect every time.
 

PS: (Sorry to flood the comments)

Last night there was a "muy pronto" for Una Familia con Suerte. What's ending soon? CME or Teresa?
 

Sara- Neither is ending soon. I have no idea where they plan on shoving Familia. The ads for that one have been sporadic for months now.

I don't think that Lucrecia not being Teo's blood child is a secret, as Carlota seems to have married him when Lucrecia was a little girl. He then adopted Lucrecia, so it's probably not a big deal and everyone considers her Teo's (only) daughter.

I do have questions in my mind about what caused Teo to cheat, when Carlota seems like a perfectly nice lady and she makes it sound like he was a good guy. Her warnings to her daughter about how to treat her husband, or else he'll stray, makes me wonder if she was hard on her hubby when he was alive. She doesn't seem like the kind of person who would have gotten a divorce way back when. I assume she was a widow when she met Teo. But who knows. Her telling Lucrecia that there are plenty of illigit children out there, also made me wonder if Lucrecia could be the same. I think Carlota is a woman of many secrets, actually. I hope we find them all out.
 

Ah, ok. I got the impression that Lucrecia's not being Teo's was a secret. I don't know how I got that impression.

Are Lucrecia and Alicia the same age? Perhaps Teo didn't cheat on Carlota so much as they weren't quite "together" yet? I get the impression, too that Alicia's mom left soon after having her. It doesn't seem like Alicia and Lucrecia grew up in the same house and Alicia had to explain herself to Carlota (though she was not surprised at the news that Teo had an illegitimate child.)

Could Carlota had made Teodoro choose and now she feel guilty? I agree, there are some secrets and I hope we find out more.
 

Since Alicia was a teen when she had Ivan, and Ivan and Maricruz are around the same age, I think Lucrecia has a few years on Alicia. Maybe even about 10 years since Alicia got pregnant at 16, and Lucrecia looks like the kind of woman who probably didn't marry until she was in her mid-late 20s.

During the conversation by the pool, Carlota took a jab at Lucrecia about why she didn't marry JJ after his first wife died. I got the impression that she somehow missed that boat when he married his wimpy 2nd wife, and so Lucrecia went ahead and married Gerry since she couldn't get who she really wanted. Carlota said it was good she didn't marry JJ, because with their personalities, their house would have been a war zone (I think UA interpreted it as how JJ's house is now, but Carlota meant how it could have been had Lu and JJ married).
 

Thank you for the recap UA!

I can't believe they are bleeping this show. I keep trying to think which worlds they might be bleeping but I don't know. I do think this is because of people of different origins in the US might find different words offensive. I have a classmate from Guatemala and she got really offended when another classmate here used the word idiota in class but that's a word comonly used here and it is not offensive if it's not directed at anyone.

I think Lucrecia not being Teodoro's child is actually a secret.

I liked the chemistry between the kids. I think they work well together. The puppy was adorable.

Jarocha
 

Thanks for dropping in Jarocha! Surely, amongst any older folk, they would know Lucrecia is not Teo's if they were around when he married Carlota. But since she and the lawyer are the only really old people around, and possibly the maid, I guess there would be no reason for them all know Lu is not Teo's bio child. This will certainly cause some problems down the line when the kids find out they are "cousins." Not like there won't be plenty of other cause for drama.

Now, does Alicia think that Lucrecia is her bio sister? That would certainly heighten her anxiety when/if she sees the growing attraction and love triangle beteen Maricruz-Ivan-Luci.
 

Just making sure I understand:

Ivan-Maripaz-Lucia are NOT blood related, but are related by marriage. (Similar to Max and Maria.)

Carlota is mother to Shrew-crecia who is step-child to Teodoro who is blood father to Alicia and blood abuelo to Ivan, but only step-abuelo to Maripaz and Lucia thus making Alicia and Shrewcrecia step sisters and the three pre-teens step-cousins.

Am I correct? I'm pretty sure it was discussed yesterday, but I wasn't ready to wrap my brain around it.

PS: The word "desamparada" was used in episode one. I laughed my little behind off.
 

PS: Yes, puppy (cachorro, yes?) was adorable and I see in "back from commercial" clip that there is a full grown dog running with grown up Ivan. I assume the puppy and Ivan will be best buds.
 

Sara- Yes, you are correct.
 

Thanks, Vivi, but I also think that any house that Lucrezia has a voice is would be a war zone!

I wonder whether Carlota and Teodoro moved to this area from somewhere else immediately after they were married. The lawyer certainly knows that Shrewcrezia (love that one!) isn't Teodoro's blood kin and that certainly counts for a lot.

Carlota and Teodoro probably went through a bad patch at some point, hence his adultery. She learned from some mistake or other.

Teen Ivan is adorable; this actor is excellent.

Juan Jaime is definitely abusive to all his children and we'll soon find out how badly he abuses Esther. Just spare us any scenes with him in bed.

Thanks to all who filled in the gaps and corrected my errors.

Word verification: "Traters"
 

UA, really, really great.

The bleeps are making me nuts, they are not in English, so how can they offend puritan ears? And I don't understand Spanish well enough to figure out what they are bleeping. Must be one of George Carlin's 7 words not allowed on TV, but he spent an hour saying worse things. Very funny if you never saw it, definitely not for puritan ears.

I say, so far, so good, love the young Iván, Carlota & Gerado.
Alejandro Tommasi (Gerado) is not a guapo, but he is so good. On Alborada (Felipe) he can really sit a horse.
 

Sara, I heard desamparada also, and almost lost it, don't tell me HER again! At least we know what it means, means, means, means.
 

UA: Terrific "estreno". I share your gagging response anytime I see Juan Jaime Don't Defy Me -- and you really do start to wonder how he convinced not one but two weak-minded women to marry him. Makes me sort of curious to know how his first wife went.
 

UA: Congratulations on your Debut!!!

Bien hecho!!!

Susanita
 

Gracias UA!

I will make it my special mission tonight to figure out QTH is getting bleeped. The first night, I could have sworn the guy was making disparaging remarks about the supposed sexual orientation of his son, but I'm not sure about last night. It's possible that that's what Carlota said last night when she got bleeped-that maybe Juan Jaime just doesn't like his son because he thinks he's a f**.
 

Is fag one of the 7 banned words, I didn't think so. But it seems that is what Juan Jaime thinks, because the kid READS. What is that kids name?
 

Oh my gosh, how I already HATE Juan Jaime (DDDM)! My skin crawls every time he is on screen.

I think he is worse than Rosendo Gavilan (Sergio Goyri) in StuD. Rosendo had a modicum of charm.
 

ok, I just found the 7 dirty words, cover your ears
fag is not among them

Shit
Piss
Fuck
Cunt
Cocksucker
Motherfucker
Tits
 

5ft Latina: Oh, I know now which word was bleeped. It was in fact the spanish version of that word, it sarts with mar*** and it doesn't end with ***ía desamparada.

Jarocaha
 

How his first wife went... I'm sure it was by suicide.
 

I love George Carlin!

Part of me wants to know what they are bleeping 'cause honestly I don't know any Spanish curse words.

Strange, I went to an immersion workshop this summer and the leader (from Mexico) and I were discussing telenovelas (she was not a fan lol.)In the course of the conversation, the word "zorra" came up. The leader was quite offended and said this is not a word that should be used....but it wasn't bleeped at all in TdA. Anyone have an explanation?
 

"it sarts with mar*** and it doesn't end with ***ía desamparada"

LOL Jarocha! I think the first night JJ got bleeped he was using slang for "fag." Not sure what Carlota got bleepd for, but I love that she got bleeped. It added to her salty old bird street cred.

I still have no idea why some word get bleeped and others don't.
 

Sara,
ja,ja,ja
Spanish curse words were the ONLY thing I knew.
 

All I can think of is maricon or mariposón
 

Sara: Zorra means something like slut in Spanish. It offends some people more than others. I wouldn't dare use it ever on someone but it's not offensive in itself because that's the name of an animal which makes it more common and natural to the ear than some other curse words.

I remember once in MA that they bleeped piruja which for me is just as strong as zorra but it is much less common and has one direct meaning (prostitute) so it jumps at you more strongly.

There are much worse curse words that won't appear in novelas (except in the ones of Cadena 3, but you don't get those) but I don't think people would dare to type them. You can rent Y Tu Mamá También though. Good movie, lots of swearing.

Vivi: Carlota got bleeped too? Now I'm left wondering what it was.

Jarocha
 

We watched several (great) movies during the workshop and I picked up a few swear words.

I hope it was understood I did not call the leader "zorra." We were just discussing the kind of er..."specialized" vocabulary one picks up in TNs (such as sueltame, largate, no me abondes, te quiero etc....None of which will help you find the Museum of National History if you are visiting Mexico lol)
 

I'll play along. I think you guys are saying the word was
maricon meaning fag. I thought Puta was prostitute and Golfa was slut. I guess Zorra means Ho or whore. BTW Zorro or Zorita means fox. If they want to go deep into curse words territory then Malhaya and Puneta are really serious. As is Hijo de Puta or when they say Tu Madre.

My apologies ladies for my dirty mouth and was just contributing to the discussion.





Ibarramedia
 

J3 is a real piece of.....work, isn't he? He and Javier from La casa de al lado would probably hit it off famously, what with the matching slime trails and all.

(Shallow note: as beautiful as she is, Leticia Calderon's botox-immobilized face distracts the hell out of me whenever Alicia is onscreen.)

And it's probably way too early to think about this, but it occurred to me that with Carlota being one of the very few people clued in to everything--particularly the Teodoro-Alicia-Ivan connection--even with her choosing to keep mum about it for the sake of her sister, er, daughter Lucrecia (honest mistake :) ), doesn't that make her a prime target for getting killed before the end of the show?
 

Don't say it Bill C. I had the *exact* same thought!!!

(Plus I really like her. The ones I really like usually die.)
 

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