Monday, December 12, 2011
La Fuerza del Destino #91 Mon 12/12/11 JJ Wants to Throw Esther Under the Bus; the Ranchers Want to Throw JJ in Jail; and Everyone Wants to Throw Saul to the Wolves
It’s already 13 after the hour, the show hasn’t started yet, but the ads for La Que No Podia Amar are heating up. I hope Sharkbyte is watching, because it looks like his telenovia Ana Brenda has a juicy role, AND is flaunting her girls through the whole tn. But on to our tn.
Lucia has just had a major freak out in the park after being approached by S-s-s-aul and having to hear her rapist breath “precio-s-s-s-a” down her neck. Alex and Ivan come to the rescue and take the shell-shocked Lucia to the car.
Lucrezia has just dropped her idea of encouraging Lucia to marry Saul on Carlota. Carlota reacts like the rest of us, and she doesn’t even know Saul raped Lucia yet. She doesn’t think the Mondragon name is worth that much. Plus, Lucia’s opinion counts. Lucrezia thinks it’s just a matter of convincing her and wants Carly on her side. Just then, dazed Lucia returns flanked protectively by Ivan and Alex. Ivan tries to assure her that she’s home now and safe. He has Carly take Lucia inside and calls Benito to come pick Alex up, while trying to avoid Alex’s questions about why Lucia freaked out.
In the bedroom, Carly asks Lucia what happened. Lucia tells her what happened and that she’s sure it was Saul who raped her. She is filled with rage (rabia). In the living room, Ivan refuses to leave. He knows something is up with Saul and that’s why Lucia reacted that way. Stupid Lucrezia thinks Lucia is just down on all men in general right now.
Saul meanwhile is trying to cover his tracks and has tracked down waiter Paulito to convince him to keep his mouth shut about that money he gave him over a year ago to do him that little favor. Paulito claims to have a bad memory (I don’t remember anything), and that he doesn’t want to lose his job. Saul threatens that if he doesn’t spilt town, he’ll end up in jail.
Carly tries to convince Lucia not to be rude to Ivan and to see him. He’s worried about her. Lucrezia relates his message that he won’t leave until he sees her. Lucia agrees and then tells Carly that she’s going to do the hypnotherapy in order to fully remember. Lucia wonders how much Ivan knows about what happened to her. Considering the e-mail he sent her, Carly supposes he knows plenty. In the living room Lucrezia still spins this tale of bad feelings towards all men.
Lucia enters the living room to speak to Ivan. She doesn’t admit that she suspects it was Saul who raped her, but does admit that she is starting to have flashbacks and that it feels like the rape happened yesterday. She starts to get upset recounting the feeling of having the person on top of her. Ivan asks if she thinks it was Saul and she says she doesn’t know but admits that she’s starting to think so. Ivan thinks she should follow Bernie’s advice and go to hypnotherapy. He is sure that once she clearly sees the face of the person who did this to her, her fears will be replaced by rage. He knows she will come out of this strong because she is so brave (valiente). What that sick degenerate did to her does not erase her essence- the essence of a good woman, intelligent, pure.
Lucia brings up his forgiveness faux pas. He begs her to please forget that. He would have never thought she had been raped. He begs her forgiveness. It doesn’t matter to him who Perlita’s bio-dad is. “But it does to me.”
In Carly’s bedroom, Lucrezia has taken her rightful place as the Queen of De-nial. Carly can’t believe she would still consider that Lucia marry Saul. Lucrezia claims it's pure speculation that he raped Lucia. (Wow! Never have I felt this much of an urge to slap a character! Please Carly, do it for me.) Carly prohibits Lucrezia from bringing up the subject again. Lucrezia at least hopes that Lucia makes up with Ivan and fixes this “shameful” situation. (See my comment above.)
Ivan updates Tony at home. Ivan recounts how she recoiled from his attempted hug. He is certain it was Saul who raped her. He wants her to go to hypnotherapy. Tony wonders that if Saul turns out to be the daddy, will Lucia reject Perla. Ivan is sure she will not. She adores her daughter. But once Lucia remembers it was Saul, he will see to it that Saul rots in jail. Tony thinks they have to wait to see what Lucia decides.
Lucia is telling Carly that she believes she still loves Ivan, but can’t stand for any man to touch her right now, not even him. It’s not rejection or disgust (asco). She thinks it’s fear. Carly tries to tell her that not all men are like her attacker, and Ivan has always been a gentleman with her. She thinks Lucia should concentrate on the good memories of when they were together. Lucia points out that memories fade with time, which prompts Carly to ask if she really is still in love with Ivan. Lucia doesn’t know what’s happening to her.
Ivan and Camilo meet at the Ag Assoc and make final arrangements for the loan repayments. Then they get to talking about Lucia. Ivan tells Camilo about Lucia’s reaction to Saul, and he also concludes Saul was the rapist. Just then Antolin walks into the office and is happily surprised to find Ivan there. Ivan spills the Saul beans and Antolin is ready to rumble! Ivan and Camilo talk him down. Ivan thinks they have to approach the situation intelligently. He agrees to let Anto do some inquiries, but NO violence!
JJ tells Saul the marry Lucia plan. Saul says he doesn’t think Lucia would agree, and anyway she freaked out when she saw him. JJ is sure she now remembers and wonders if Saul was stupid enough to think she would never remember. “Well, yeah.” Saul admits that he slipped a mickey in her drink and she was unconscious when he did the deed. I guess JJ thought Lucia was just drunk when it happened because he calls Saul an infelíz and slaps him hard across the face. When Saul responds by begging JJ to help him flee the country, JJ slaps him hard again. Esther comes in wanting to know what’s happening. Saul says that he’s sure Ivan now knows and is going to put him in jail. JJ doesn’t think he deserves jail. He deserves to die! Saul is not deterred. Through teary eyes he begs JJ for money. He’s his son! JJ would rather be dead than be his father. He tells Sault to beat it. “Largate!”
Esther runs for JJ’s pills. He tells her he doesn’t ever want to see that animal again in his life. He tells Esther that Saul drugged Lucia to rape her.
The Three Musketeers (Ivan, Cam, Anto) discuss the situation over beers in a bar, while that damn “Sexy Smile” song plays in the background. Anto wants to beat the confession out of Saul. He thinks they should go to his house and drag him out. The other two urge calm. Anyway, Cam says, it’s not like that worked when they confronted him about being Lechita’s dad. Oh, well Anto showed him a lesson for that. Uhm, what? Ivan and Cam look worried now. What did Anto do? Anto just sips on his beer quietly. He only wants to help, especially since Ivan did so much to get him out of jail. Ivan doesn’t want any more talk of that. They are his only family and that’s what you do for family. Ivan thinks that the love they have for each other can conquer all the other problems they’ve had with each other. They’re brothers!
In Gordo’s new hideaway, Saul is trying to butter Gordo up into helping him. Gordo isn’t happy about being roped into Saul’s problems. He doesn’t have any money to loan Saul. His grandma does have a meager house out in the countryside where Saul could hide out. Saul is happy with that option.
MP calls Judith wanting them to go out clubbing like old times. Judith tries to beg off because she has work early in the morning. Anyway, her mom doesn’t want her hanging out with MP anymore. On cue, Esther comes into the living room wanting to know why Judith hasn’t told her about her boyfriend. Well, mainly because she doesn’t want JJ to be all in her biz, and secondly because she’s an adult and can make her own decisions. (Well, she wasn’t singing that tune just a second ago when she spoke to MP.) Esther doesn’t understand why she can’t present her boyfriend to them if he’s a good man. Judith refuses to continue the conversation and kisses her mother goodnight.
In Casa Galvan, Camilo has just told Celia about Lucia’s rape. She calls whoever did it a coward and Camilo reveals that they suspect it was Saul. Camilo just wants to hug and console her, but he knows that’s not what she wants. Celia thinks he needs to remake his life. He knows, but it’s a small town and it’s not easy to avoid her and vice versa. The biggest difference is that she continues to be important for him, but he means nothing to her.
Ivan calls Lucia to check in on her and Perlita. He would have liked to see Perlita. They make small talk about her taking Perlita to the pediatrician tomorrow, and about the car. She doesn’t have one to get around since hers is totaled. He thinks she should at least borrow that cute electric blue Beetle he got her, until she gets her new car. She continues to be stubborn about it. “As you wish. Goodnight.” Lucia’s mad that he just hung up saying goodnight, without even sending her kisses. (She's awfully confused about what she wants from this man, isn’t she?)
The next morning, Lucia is leaving the hospital and struggling with the baby to get a cab back to the ranch. Up drives Ivan’s taxi service. He pays no attention to her saying it was unnecessary for him to come, takes Perlita and puts her in the car, and asks how the appointment went. He had nothing better to do than come pick up a girl he’s known for over 20 years, who’s no longer a girl. Once they arrive at the ranch, he insists on walking her and Perlita all the way in. He coos at Perlita, calling her beautiful, and speaks about how he never knew Alex as a baby. He considers Perlita to be his baby. “But she’s not.” Ivan points out that Tony isn’t his biological father either. But they love each other and would give their lives for each other. In the same way he would give his life for Alex, Perla, or Lucia. He reminds her of their passionate love. He can’t believe she’s forgotten. He leaves her with her thoughts. After he leaves she begs him not to leave in a whisper.
Shot of the fields of healthy cartámo (safflower). Ivan and Camilo meet with the guy from the company that makes cooking oil (aceite) from cartámo. Lots of PSAs about how healthy it is, especially in the fight against diabetes. Blah, blah. Refer to my recap about the benefits of cartámo. Everyone is happy.
The next day, Cutberto’s in Camilo’s office complaining about how JJ has to pay for his recently discovered fraudulent dealings at the Ag Assoc.
Lucia and Bernie wait for Lucia to enter her hypnotherapy session. Lucia doesn’t know what’s happening to her. She loves Ivan, but when he gets close to her she feels fear and the need to reject him. Bernie is concerned. Lucia gets called into her session with the doctor. They speak about how she was drugged and can’t remember her rape.
Camilo and Anto discuss the audit the ranchers want done. Camilo speaks to Anto about all the JJ scams (tranzas) he’s already discovered. Anto tells him to forget about the promise he made to JJ to forgo the audit. Anto would be happy to see JJ behind bars. Speak of the devil! It’s JJ himself who’s come to see Camilo.
Lucia’s session begins and she’s put under. She begins to remember the rape and the doctor asks who else was there. She begins to weep. “It’s him! It’s him. It’s him.” (Whew! I needed a commercial break! Didn’t you?)
When we come back from break, JJ is hobbling into his old office and is greeted by the Brothers Galvan. JJ is surprised to find Anto there. Anto says he’s done with the crooked life and leaves. “Have a good day, if you can.” JJ assumes Anto is working at the Ag Assoc, but Cami sets him straight that Anto manages his ranch for him. They chat about the fact that JJ can’t drive himself but had to come by chauffeured driven car. (Poor baby!) “How are things, my friend Camilo?”
Lucia is trying to end the session before she can fully identify her rapist’s face. The doctor reassures her and makes an appointment for tomorrow. If she wants closure, she’s going to have to be brave enough to let herself see the face (rostro) of this man.
JJ is trying to guilt Camilo into not doing the audit. Camilo points out that it wasn’t JJ’s influence that got him the job, plus all the ranchers are calling for the audit. JJ thinks Camilo just wants to screw him over (me quieres fregar), and surely as the president he can just lie to the associates! Camilo says his duty (deber) is to show the associates the audit, and he’s just giving JJ fair warning. JJ tries to blame his accountant and Saul for the mistakes and fraud. Then he tries to use illness as an excuse. If he WERE healthy, he’d use his cane to chase Camilo out of his office. He then leaves, deftly using his cane to swing the door shut.
Bernie tries to talk Lucia into confronting her fears and allowing herself to see the face in her session tomorrow. Lucia isn’t a coward (cobarde). She needs to do it for herself and for her daughter.
Ivan asks David for Bernie’s phone number so he can find out how Lucia’s session went. Before he leaves, he actually pleasantly asks Judith how her (their) father is. He finds Camilo in Tony’s office seeking advice about the JJ audit situation. Tony thinks they can make an agreement (acuerdo) with JJ that won’t land him in jail. He’s already sick, his wife is ready to leave him, his kids are distanced from him, and he’s kicked Saul out of the house. Ivan’s ears prick up. Why did he do that, Ivan wonders?
Tony thinks it’s better to deal with the JJ situation the easiest way possible (por las buenas), and anyway, blood calls blood. Ivan is tired of hearing that nonsense. Tony is ticked at him again for being so filled with rancor and not having compassion, especially for someone who carries his own blood. Ivan still doesn’t look like he’s buying it. “Do what you want.” He walks out.
Lucrezia immediately starts pressuring Lucia to spill what she learned during her session. Lucia admits that her fear stopped her from going deeper in her memory, and ever supportive Lucrezia (NOT!) says SHE doesn’t believe Saul could have done something like this. She refuses to shut up about it, which ticks Carly off. Lucia tells them both to knock it off. She doesn’t even want to hear his name! Lucrezia STILL refuses to SHUT UP! Carly tells Lucrezia to go to JJ and tell him to forget this idea of Lucia marrying his disgrace of a son. And if Saul even comes within a meter of Lucia, he’s going to have to deal with Carly!
JJ complains to Esther about Camilo. She tries to calm him down. JJ prefers to be dead than in jail! Why did he take the money, she asks? Look around, he tells her. He did it for them. So that they could have a good life! Now look at his kids. David and Judith working for that gringo who stole his son, and Saul turned into scum (escoria), a despicable being. And he knows Esther just came back to him out of pity. He tells her to leave him alone, and she leaves looking dejected. (Honey, you already went above and beyond duty. Leave his a** again!)
Ivan visits Bernie at her place and they sit in the cage chair where she usually makes out with David. Bernie updates him on how the first session went. He relates his fears and worries about Lucia, especially how she rejects his touch. Bernie explains how she subconsciously identifies his touch with that of her rapist, and he doesn’t understand how she can feel in danger at his side. Bernie says it doesn’t matter what happened between them before. Lucia feels very vulnerable right now. She isn’t even really aware of how she’s acting right now. He needs to be patient. Ivan wonders if she’ll ever get past this. Bernie says you can’t be sure, but she believes so. Ivan wants to know what he should do; how should he behave? Observe her. Feel her out. He himself will then find the best way to help her. Ivan asks how did the memories get triggered in the first place? “It was a phone call from Saul.”
JJ meets with his lawyer. The lawyer’s worried about the audit too, JJ wants to know how they are going to get out of this. JJ reminds him that he’s up to his neck in this too, and can’t blame it all on JJ giving him orders. The lawyer agrees, but the ideas were JJ’s. Esther listens in as the lawyer suggests throwing all the blame on Saul. It won’t be easy since all the money was put in JJ’s account. Then JJ comes up with a brilliant idea. “My wife also has signatory power over that account!”
The maid nearly gives away Esther and almost interrupts, but Ester shoos her back inside the kitchen so that she can continue to listen in on the plan to frame her. The lawyer doesn’t think people will believe she was capable of such a thing. Esther goes running into Saul’s room looking for him, but realizes he’s already gone.
In her hotel, MP fixes herself a glass of mother’s little helper after a tough day of…I don’t know, filing her nails. She decides to call up Camilo and complain about him abandoning her. She is dying of boredom! He is too busy. It will have to be another time. She tells him that she’s starting to be under the impression that their “relationship” is only based on sex. (Hah!) He is surprised as the audience is that she thought it was something more than that. “You’re treating me like a whore.” (golfa) He tells her to take it as she wishes. He’ll see her tomorrow.
Lucia looks at sleeping Perla and tells her it doesn’t matter to her in what conditions she came to her. She loves her. She takes a call from Ivan. He tells her he’s not put off by her rejection. All he wants to do is care for her. She thanks him, but she doesn’t know if she can overcome this. She doesn’t want to hurt him and thinks he should forget her. He says he can’t forget her. He wants to know how he can help her. She tells him what the doctor said about confronting her fears. Only then can she once again have a relationship. “Do you want to try?” Lucia looks unsure of her answer.
Avances: Lucia tells Ivan the rapist was for sure Saul. Ivan swears to turn over every rock to find that asshole. MP threatens Camilo that if he doesn’t service her regularly, uh…take their “relationship” seriously, she’ll sing to the four winds that they started sleeping together while he was still married to Lucia and that HE seduced her. Ivan plans a romantic dinner for Lucia and they kiss.
Lucia has just had a major freak out in the park after being approached by S-s-s-aul and having to hear her rapist breath “precio-s-s-s-a” down her neck. Alex and Ivan come to the rescue and take the shell-shocked Lucia to the car.
Lucrezia has just dropped her idea of encouraging Lucia to marry Saul on Carlota. Carlota reacts like the rest of us, and she doesn’t even know Saul raped Lucia yet. She doesn’t think the Mondragon name is worth that much. Plus, Lucia’s opinion counts. Lucrezia thinks it’s just a matter of convincing her and wants Carly on her side. Just then, dazed Lucia returns flanked protectively by Ivan and Alex. Ivan tries to assure her that she’s home now and safe. He has Carly take Lucia inside and calls Benito to come pick Alex up, while trying to avoid Alex’s questions about why Lucia freaked out.
In the bedroom, Carly asks Lucia what happened. Lucia tells her what happened and that she’s sure it was Saul who raped her. She is filled with rage (rabia). In the living room, Ivan refuses to leave. He knows something is up with Saul and that’s why Lucia reacted that way. Stupid Lucrezia thinks Lucia is just down on all men in general right now.
Saul meanwhile is trying to cover his tracks and has tracked down waiter Paulito to convince him to keep his mouth shut about that money he gave him over a year ago to do him that little favor. Paulito claims to have a bad memory (I don’t remember anything), and that he doesn’t want to lose his job. Saul threatens that if he doesn’t spilt town, he’ll end up in jail.
Carly tries to convince Lucia not to be rude to Ivan and to see him. He’s worried about her. Lucrezia relates his message that he won’t leave until he sees her. Lucia agrees and then tells Carly that she’s going to do the hypnotherapy in order to fully remember. Lucia wonders how much Ivan knows about what happened to her. Considering the e-mail he sent her, Carly supposes he knows plenty. In the living room Lucrezia still spins this tale of bad feelings towards all men.
Lucia enters the living room to speak to Ivan. She doesn’t admit that she suspects it was Saul who raped her, but does admit that she is starting to have flashbacks and that it feels like the rape happened yesterday. She starts to get upset recounting the feeling of having the person on top of her. Ivan asks if she thinks it was Saul and she says she doesn’t know but admits that she’s starting to think so. Ivan thinks she should follow Bernie’s advice and go to hypnotherapy. He is sure that once she clearly sees the face of the person who did this to her, her fears will be replaced by rage. He knows she will come out of this strong because she is so brave (valiente). What that sick degenerate did to her does not erase her essence- the essence of a good woman, intelligent, pure.
Lucia brings up his forgiveness faux pas. He begs her to please forget that. He would have never thought she had been raped. He begs her forgiveness. It doesn’t matter to him who Perlita’s bio-dad is. “But it does to me.”
In Carly’s bedroom, Lucrezia has taken her rightful place as the Queen of De-nial. Carly can’t believe she would still consider that Lucia marry Saul. Lucrezia claims it's pure speculation that he raped Lucia. (Wow! Never have I felt this much of an urge to slap a character! Please Carly, do it for me.) Carly prohibits Lucrezia from bringing up the subject again. Lucrezia at least hopes that Lucia makes up with Ivan and fixes this “shameful” situation. (See my comment above.)
Ivan updates Tony at home. Ivan recounts how she recoiled from his attempted hug. He is certain it was Saul who raped her. He wants her to go to hypnotherapy. Tony wonders that if Saul turns out to be the daddy, will Lucia reject Perla. Ivan is sure she will not. She adores her daughter. But once Lucia remembers it was Saul, he will see to it that Saul rots in jail. Tony thinks they have to wait to see what Lucia decides.
Lucia is telling Carly that she believes she still loves Ivan, but can’t stand for any man to touch her right now, not even him. It’s not rejection or disgust (asco). She thinks it’s fear. Carly tries to tell her that not all men are like her attacker, and Ivan has always been a gentleman with her. She thinks Lucia should concentrate on the good memories of when they were together. Lucia points out that memories fade with time, which prompts Carly to ask if she really is still in love with Ivan. Lucia doesn’t know what’s happening to her.
Ivan and Camilo meet at the Ag Assoc and make final arrangements for the loan repayments. Then they get to talking about Lucia. Ivan tells Camilo about Lucia’s reaction to Saul, and he also concludes Saul was the rapist. Just then Antolin walks into the office and is happily surprised to find Ivan there. Ivan spills the Saul beans and Antolin is ready to rumble! Ivan and Camilo talk him down. Ivan thinks they have to approach the situation intelligently. He agrees to let Anto do some inquiries, but NO violence!
JJ tells Saul the marry Lucia plan. Saul says he doesn’t think Lucia would agree, and anyway she freaked out when she saw him. JJ is sure she now remembers and wonders if Saul was stupid enough to think she would never remember. “Well, yeah.” Saul admits that he slipped a mickey in her drink and she was unconscious when he did the deed. I guess JJ thought Lucia was just drunk when it happened because he calls Saul an infelíz and slaps him hard across the face. When Saul responds by begging JJ to help him flee the country, JJ slaps him hard again. Esther comes in wanting to know what’s happening. Saul says that he’s sure Ivan now knows and is going to put him in jail. JJ doesn’t think he deserves jail. He deserves to die! Saul is not deterred. Through teary eyes he begs JJ for money. He’s his son! JJ would rather be dead than be his father. He tells Sault to beat it. “Largate!”
Esther runs for JJ’s pills. He tells her he doesn’t ever want to see that animal again in his life. He tells Esther that Saul drugged Lucia to rape her.
The Three Musketeers (Ivan, Cam, Anto) discuss the situation over beers in a bar, while that damn “Sexy Smile” song plays in the background. Anto wants to beat the confession out of Saul. He thinks they should go to his house and drag him out. The other two urge calm. Anyway, Cam says, it’s not like that worked when they confronted him about being Lechita’s dad. Oh, well Anto showed him a lesson for that. Uhm, what? Ivan and Cam look worried now. What did Anto do? Anto just sips on his beer quietly. He only wants to help, especially since Ivan did so much to get him out of jail. Ivan doesn’t want any more talk of that. They are his only family and that’s what you do for family. Ivan thinks that the love they have for each other can conquer all the other problems they’ve had with each other. They’re brothers!
In Gordo’s new hideaway, Saul is trying to butter Gordo up into helping him. Gordo isn’t happy about being roped into Saul’s problems. He doesn’t have any money to loan Saul. His grandma does have a meager house out in the countryside where Saul could hide out. Saul is happy with that option.
MP calls Judith wanting them to go out clubbing like old times. Judith tries to beg off because she has work early in the morning. Anyway, her mom doesn’t want her hanging out with MP anymore. On cue, Esther comes into the living room wanting to know why Judith hasn’t told her about her boyfriend. Well, mainly because she doesn’t want JJ to be all in her biz, and secondly because she’s an adult and can make her own decisions. (Well, she wasn’t singing that tune just a second ago when she spoke to MP.) Esther doesn’t understand why she can’t present her boyfriend to them if he’s a good man. Judith refuses to continue the conversation and kisses her mother goodnight.
In Casa Galvan, Camilo has just told Celia about Lucia’s rape. She calls whoever did it a coward and Camilo reveals that they suspect it was Saul. Camilo just wants to hug and console her, but he knows that’s not what she wants. Celia thinks he needs to remake his life. He knows, but it’s a small town and it’s not easy to avoid her and vice versa. The biggest difference is that she continues to be important for him, but he means nothing to her.
Ivan calls Lucia to check in on her and Perlita. He would have liked to see Perlita. They make small talk about her taking Perlita to the pediatrician tomorrow, and about the car. She doesn’t have one to get around since hers is totaled. He thinks she should at least borrow that cute electric blue Beetle he got her, until she gets her new car. She continues to be stubborn about it. “As you wish. Goodnight.” Lucia’s mad that he just hung up saying goodnight, without even sending her kisses. (She's awfully confused about what she wants from this man, isn’t she?)
The next morning, Lucia is leaving the hospital and struggling with the baby to get a cab back to the ranch. Up drives Ivan’s taxi service. He pays no attention to her saying it was unnecessary for him to come, takes Perlita and puts her in the car, and asks how the appointment went. He had nothing better to do than come pick up a girl he’s known for over 20 years, who’s no longer a girl. Once they arrive at the ranch, he insists on walking her and Perlita all the way in. He coos at Perlita, calling her beautiful, and speaks about how he never knew Alex as a baby. He considers Perlita to be his baby. “But she’s not.” Ivan points out that Tony isn’t his biological father either. But they love each other and would give their lives for each other. In the same way he would give his life for Alex, Perla, or Lucia. He reminds her of their passionate love. He can’t believe she’s forgotten. He leaves her with her thoughts. After he leaves she begs him not to leave in a whisper.
Shot of the fields of healthy cartámo (safflower). Ivan and Camilo meet with the guy from the company that makes cooking oil (aceite) from cartámo. Lots of PSAs about how healthy it is, especially in the fight against diabetes. Blah, blah. Refer to my recap about the benefits of cartámo. Everyone is happy.
The next day, Cutberto’s in Camilo’s office complaining about how JJ has to pay for his recently discovered fraudulent dealings at the Ag Assoc.
Lucia and Bernie wait for Lucia to enter her hypnotherapy session. Lucia doesn’t know what’s happening to her. She loves Ivan, but when he gets close to her she feels fear and the need to reject him. Bernie is concerned. Lucia gets called into her session with the doctor. They speak about how she was drugged and can’t remember her rape.
Camilo and Anto discuss the audit the ranchers want done. Camilo speaks to Anto about all the JJ scams (tranzas) he’s already discovered. Anto tells him to forget about the promise he made to JJ to forgo the audit. Anto would be happy to see JJ behind bars. Speak of the devil! It’s JJ himself who’s come to see Camilo.
Lucia’s session begins and she’s put under. She begins to remember the rape and the doctor asks who else was there. She begins to weep. “It’s him! It’s him. It’s him.” (Whew! I needed a commercial break! Didn’t you?)
When we come back from break, JJ is hobbling into his old office and is greeted by the Brothers Galvan. JJ is surprised to find Anto there. Anto says he’s done with the crooked life and leaves. “Have a good day, if you can.” JJ assumes Anto is working at the Ag Assoc, but Cami sets him straight that Anto manages his ranch for him. They chat about the fact that JJ can’t drive himself but had to come by chauffeured driven car. (Poor baby!) “How are things, my friend Camilo?”
Lucia is trying to end the session before she can fully identify her rapist’s face. The doctor reassures her and makes an appointment for tomorrow. If she wants closure, she’s going to have to be brave enough to let herself see the face (rostro) of this man.
JJ is trying to guilt Camilo into not doing the audit. Camilo points out that it wasn’t JJ’s influence that got him the job, plus all the ranchers are calling for the audit. JJ thinks Camilo just wants to screw him over (me quieres fregar), and surely as the president he can just lie to the associates! Camilo says his duty (deber) is to show the associates the audit, and he’s just giving JJ fair warning. JJ tries to blame his accountant and Saul for the mistakes and fraud. Then he tries to use illness as an excuse. If he WERE healthy, he’d use his cane to chase Camilo out of his office. He then leaves, deftly using his cane to swing the door shut.
Bernie tries to talk Lucia into confronting her fears and allowing herself to see the face in her session tomorrow. Lucia isn’t a coward (cobarde). She needs to do it for herself and for her daughter.
Ivan asks David for Bernie’s phone number so he can find out how Lucia’s session went. Before he leaves, he actually pleasantly asks Judith how her (their) father is. He finds Camilo in Tony’s office seeking advice about the JJ audit situation. Tony thinks they can make an agreement (acuerdo) with JJ that won’t land him in jail. He’s already sick, his wife is ready to leave him, his kids are distanced from him, and he’s kicked Saul out of the house. Ivan’s ears prick up. Why did he do that, Ivan wonders?
Tony thinks it’s better to deal with the JJ situation the easiest way possible (por las buenas), and anyway, blood calls blood. Ivan is tired of hearing that nonsense. Tony is ticked at him again for being so filled with rancor and not having compassion, especially for someone who carries his own blood. Ivan still doesn’t look like he’s buying it. “Do what you want.” He walks out.
Lucrezia immediately starts pressuring Lucia to spill what she learned during her session. Lucia admits that her fear stopped her from going deeper in her memory, and ever supportive Lucrezia (NOT!) says SHE doesn’t believe Saul could have done something like this. She refuses to shut up about it, which ticks Carly off. Lucia tells them both to knock it off. She doesn’t even want to hear his name! Lucrezia STILL refuses to SHUT UP! Carly tells Lucrezia to go to JJ and tell him to forget this idea of Lucia marrying his disgrace of a son. And if Saul even comes within a meter of Lucia, he’s going to have to deal with Carly!
JJ complains to Esther about Camilo. She tries to calm him down. JJ prefers to be dead than in jail! Why did he take the money, she asks? Look around, he tells her. He did it for them. So that they could have a good life! Now look at his kids. David and Judith working for that gringo who stole his son, and Saul turned into scum (escoria), a despicable being. And he knows Esther just came back to him out of pity. He tells her to leave him alone, and she leaves looking dejected. (Honey, you already went above and beyond duty. Leave his a** again!)
Ivan visits Bernie at her place and they sit in the cage chair where she usually makes out with David. Bernie updates him on how the first session went. He relates his fears and worries about Lucia, especially how she rejects his touch. Bernie explains how she subconsciously identifies his touch with that of her rapist, and he doesn’t understand how she can feel in danger at his side. Bernie says it doesn’t matter what happened between them before. Lucia feels very vulnerable right now. She isn’t even really aware of how she’s acting right now. He needs to be patient. Ivan wonders if she’ll ever get past this. Bernie says you can’t be sure, but she believes so. Ivan wants to know what he should do; how should he behave? Observe her. Feel her out. He himself will then find the best way to help her. Ivan asks how did the memories get triggered in the first place? “It was a phone call from Saul.”
JJ meets with his lawyer. The lawyer’s worried about the audit too, JJ wants to know how they are going to get out of this. JJ reminds him that he’s up to his neck in this too, and can’t blame it all on JJ giving him orders. The lawyer agrees, but the ideas were JJ’s. Esther listens in as the lawyer suggests throwing all the blame on Saul. It won’t be easy since all the money was put in JJ’s account. Then JJ comes up with a brilliant idea. “My wife also has signatory power over that account!”
The maid nearly gives away Esther and almost interrupts, but Ester shoos her back inside the kitchen so that she can continue to listen in on the plan to frame her. The lawyer doesn’t think people will believe she was capable of such a thing. Esther goes running into Saul’s room looking for him, but realizes he’s already gone.
In her hotel, MP fixes herself a glass of mother’s little helper after a tough day of…I don’t know, filing her nails. She decides to call up Camilo and complain about him abandoning her. She is dying of boredom! He is too busy. It will have to be another time. She tells him that she’s starting to be under the impression that their “relationship” is only based on sex. (Hah!) He is surprised as the audience is that she thought it was something more than that. “You’re treating me like a whore.” (golfa) He tells her to take it as she wishes. He’ll see her tomorrow.
Lucia looks at sleeping Perla and tells her it doesn’t matter to her in what conditions she came to her. She loves her. She takes a call from Ivan. He tells her he’s not put off by her rejection. All he wants to do is care for her. She thanks him, but she doesn’t know if she can overcome this. She doesn’t want to hurt him and thinks he should forget her. He says he can’t forget her. He wants to know how he can help her. She tells him what the doctor said about confronting her fears. Only then can she once again have a relationship. “Do you want to try?” Lucia looks unsure of her answer.
Avances: Lucia tells Ivan the rapist was for sure Saul. Ivan swears to turn over every rock to find that asshole. MP threatens Camilo that if he doesn’t service her regularly, uh…take their “relationship” seriously, she’ll sing to the four winds that they started sleeping together while he was still married to Lucia and that HE seduced her. Ivan plans a romantic dinner for Lucia and they kiss.
Labels: Fuerza
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Thanks for the recap Vivi. I know JJ is still an idiot but he keeps going lower. To pin his thieving on Esther, is so low. She needs to (as you said) leave his sorry behind muy pronto.
And yes I will be right there with you slapping Lucrazy. I cringe every time she opens her mouth. I can't believe, as Bill C noted, she has only been slapped once. If I had my way, since the rape was revealed (and perhaps a few episodes prior) she would be slapped regularly in hopes it would juggle her brain to reason. I just need to qualify that I'm not a person that desires violence; I'm just beyond vexed that a mother could treat her daughter like this and TNs allow us to take out aggression on fictious characters.
I did love that Antolin was talked down and the 3 guys bonded over how to handle Saul. While I don't know how things will end for Saul, he and Gordo need to be in jail at least and I'm will for more punishment suggestions.
And yes I will be right there with you slapping Lucrazy. I cringe every time she opens her mouth. I can't believe, as Bill C noted, she has only been slapped once. If I had my way, since the rape was revealed (and perhaps a few episodes prior) she would be slapped regularly in hopes it would juggle her brain to reason. I just need to qualify that I'm not a person that desires violence; I'm just beyond vexed that a mother could treat her daughter like this and TNs allow us to take out aggression on fictious characters.
I did love that Antolin was talked down and the 3 guys bonded over how to handle Saul. While I don't know how things will end for Saul, he and Gordo need to be in jail at least and I'm will for more punishment suggestions.
Thank you for the recap Vivi. I loved your title. Poor Ester, run as fast as you can and never look back. There is no way he can frame her. Poor Lucia, she will continue to be replused by Ivan's touch until she deals with the rape. I glad she feels the rage. Lucrazy, may the anvil hit you hard. I love how Carlota keeps telling her to just shut up already. Carolta needs to slap her. I really thought Merry Piece had changed, but not so much.
I am glad the three amigos,Antolin, Camilo and Ivan got together and will do something about Saul the creep. Woe to Saul when they finally figure out what they are going to do. I think this past Friday Jardinera said something about Saul wanting Ivan to beg on his knees. I think that will be Saul and not Ivan. I think Saul and Gordo will get exactly what they deserve in the end especially if Antolin has something to do with it.
I am glad the three amigos,Antolin, Camilo and Ivan got together and will do something about Saul the creep. Woe to Saul when they finally figure out what they are going to do. I think this past Friday Jardinera said something about Saul wanting Ivan to beg on his knees. I think that will be Saul and not Ivan. I think Saul and Gordo will get exactly what they deserve in the end especially if Antolin has something to do with it.
Permalink posted by 
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 12:20:00 AM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 12:20:00 AM EST
That was quick, Vivi! And excellent.
JJ deserves to lose everything including his freedom. The idea of him framing Esther for the embezzlement is beyond despicable. Not to mention his blatant disregard for Lucia. What did he think would happen if he would have forced a marriage and she would remember the rape afterward? She would end up in the manicomio and Carlota would have JJ's cojones on a spit over an open pit fire.
As to proving Saul is the rapist all they need is a DNA test, which can be done without his consent: Test Perla and little Alicia. If we take for granted that Saul seduced Carmen when she was a virgin (She's young enough for that to be believable) the test would prove that Alicia and Perla have the same father. I was hoping that Ivan would have thought of this on the way to the pediatrician's office.
Lucia has to press charges, but who wants to bet that Lucrazia will try to talk her out of it? Sign me up for the Slap Lucrazia Gauntlet.
I miss Sharkbyte, so let's hope he will watch LQNPA. And sign me up for recapping that one.
JJ deserves to lose everything including his freedom. The idea of him framing Esther for the embezzlement is beyond despicable. Not to mention his blatant disregard for Lucia. What did he think would happen if he would have forced a marriage and she would remember the rape afterward? She would end up in the manicomio and Carlota would have JJ's cojones on a spit over an open pit fire.
As to proving Saul is the rapist all they need is a DNA test, which can be done without his consent: Test Perla and little Alicia. If we take for granted that Saul seduced Carmen when she was a virgin (She's young enough for that to be believable) the test would prove that Alicia and Perla have the same father. I was hoping that Ivan would have thought of this on the way to the pediatrician's office.
Lucia has to press charges, but who wants to bet that Lucrazia will try to talk her out of it? Sign me up for the Slap Lucrazia Gauntlet.
I miss Sharkbyte, so let's hope he will watch LQNPA. And sign me up for recapping that one.
We will be saying goodbye to Ivan & Co. on 12/26 and hello to Ana Brenda & the Girls on 1/2.
Neither Lucrazia nor JJ know how to love or have experienced love. Otherwise they wouldn't treat their loved ones like crap.
Maripaz, you are the town slut. Why would any man in Alamos treat you as anything BUT a whore? The one man who treated you decently (David) you crapped on because he couldn't get it up and wasn't as rich as you though.
Ester needs to leave ASAP before she ends up in the carcel.
If Saul had any brains he'd be trying to leave Mexico NOW.
I personally thought Berenice was a little too close to Ivan on that couch and hoping David wouldn't stroll in and misinterpret things.
Tonight was Carolina free.
Neither Lucrazia nor JJ know how to love or have experienced love. Otherwise they wouldn't treat their loved ones like crap.
Maripaz, you are the town slut. Why would any man in Alamos treat you as anything BUT a whore? The one man who treated you decently (David) you crapped on because he couldn't get it up and wasn't as rich as you though.
Ester needs to leave ASAP before she ends up in the carcel.
If Saul had any brains he'd be trying to leave Mexico NOW.
I personally thought Berenice was a little too close to Ivan on that couch and hoping David wouldn't stroll in and misinterpret things.
Tonight was Carolina free.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 1:42:00 AM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 1:42:00 AM EST
Vivi what a great recap. I love you calling Ivan, Cam and Anto the three muskateers. So true. Your dialogue timing is flawless.
Does anyone know when Talisman starts and what time it will be, it looks good, too.
I also hoped Sharkbyte would reappear for La que no podia amar.
I'll gladly read your recaps of any story, Urban.
Anon207-I don't think Lucrezia has the excuse of never having been loved. She has her mother Carlota; and had a loving husband whom she ridiculed. I wonder what will happen to Lucrezia. She hired someone to hurt Ivan as a teen when he got MP pregnant. The rest of her sins are only verbal. I wonder what TN justice has for her.
Saul is toast, of course. JJ I think is also toast, especially now after he is going to try to implicate Ester.
Does anyone know when Talisman starts and what time it will be, it looks good, too.
I also hoped Sharkbyte would reappear for La que no podia amar.
I'll gladly read your recaps of any story, Urban.
Anon207-I don't think Lucrezia has the excuse of never having been loved. She has her mother Carlota; and had a loving husband whom she ridiculed. I wonder what will happen to Lucrezia. She hired someone to hurt Ivan as a teen when he got MP pregnant. The rest of her sins are only verbal. I wonder what TN justice has for her.
Saul is toast, of course. JJ I think is also toast, especially now after he is going to try to implicate Ester.
Vivi, I laughed at the title - spot on. This was absolutely wonderful and the embedded vocabulary was stellar.
The narration was picture perfect. Your words are always powerful: "Lucia has just had a major freak out in the park after being approached by S-s-s-aul and having to hear her rapist breath “precio-s-s-s-a” down her neck" made me shiver (once again) to imagine what Lucia endured.
I loved the 3 amigos with Ivan (in particular) urging our beloved hothead Anto to stay cool and vengence free. I fear Anto will be hard pressed to keep his promise to be cool and collected. But then again, do we really want him to be? :)
Karen, I had thought JJ might change after his stroke, but that hope has completely dissipated. Yes, framing Esther is beyond despicable.
I loved Ivan swooping in to drive Lucia and Perlita home, his crooked smile is so sweet. Also enjoy how he revels in his brotherhood with Anto and Cam.
Gracias again Vivi.
Diana
The narration was picture perfect. Your words are always powerful: "Lucia has just had a major freak out in the park after being approached by S-s-s-aul and having to hear her rapist breath “precio-s-s-s-a” down her neck" made me shiver (once again) to imagine what Lucia endured.
I loved the 3 amigos with Ivan (in particular) urging our beloved hothead Anto to stay cool and vengence free. I fear Anto will be hard pressed to keep his promise to be cool and collected. But then again, do we really want him to be? :)
Karen, I had thought JJ might change after his stroke, but that hope has completely dissipated. Yes, framing Esther is beyond despicable.
I loved Ivan swooping in to drive Lucia and Perlita home, his crooked smile is so sweet. Also enjoy how he revels in his brotherhood with Anto and Cam.
Gracias again Vivi.
Diana
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 7:31:00 AM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 7:31:00 AM EST
Thank you, Vivi. Good recap and much needed in my case. I had countless interruptions last night while watching and missed a couple of juicy moments.
I loved the Three Musketeers reference and the guys being together. It will be interesting to see who survives and how. I'm rooting for Antolin, but fear that Camilo is the musketeer for whom the crow caws!
I loved the Three Musketeers reference and the guys being together. It will be interesting to see who survives and how. I'm rooting for Antolin, but fear that Camilo is the musketeer for whom the crow caws!
Under US law, Lucrazia could be charged with attempted murder. Would that happen in Mexico?
Pretty soon the guy from the bar will flip on Saul; Antolin will see to that.
Esther needs to run NOW. And not to her sister's place.
El Gordo is a dead man. At some point Saul will give him up or Maripaz will realize he is her father's killer.
But there is no redemption for her. She has the longest rap sheet in the story.
Finallly, as a two-time survivor of rape I have to say that it makes me boiling mad that anyone still believes that a rape victim is "damaged goods."
Pretty soon the guy from the bar will flip on Saul; Antolin will see to that.
Esther needs to run NOW. And not to her sister's place.
El Gordo is a dead man. At some point Saul will give him up or Maripaz will realize he is her father's killer.
But there is no redemption for her. She has the longest rap sheet in the story.
Finallly, as a two-time survivor of rape I have to say that it makes me boiling mad that anyone still believes that a rape victim is "damaged goods."
Thanks everyone. One of my favorite moments last night was also seeing Ivan, Camilo and Anto united. That's how it should be. I hope they all survive.
I think it's interesting that Tony keeps pushing this blood relationship thing on Ivan and he couldn't care less. He has NO interest in forming a relationship with JJ, but he would do anything for Tony (except bond with JJ). He keeps David and Judith at a friendly arm's length, but he considers the Galvans to be his true siblings. And in his mind Perla is his baby, and that's that. (She is his niece though.)
Blood family versus the family we make/choose. It's an interesting theme that also runs through CME.
Lucrezia sank to new lows yesterday. Not only did she have a loving mother and husband, she also had a loving father in Teodoro. There is just no excuse. JJ also sank to new lows. Esther needs to leave, asap! And she needs to go to the McGuires, the Ag Assoc, and the cops and tell them all she knows and heard. So what if she lands her husband/father of her kids in jail. He's trying to do it to her!
Anon207- The finale is Monday the 26th? Uh oh! I'm going to be in a car driving to Atlanta. I will try to track down the finale online. Otherwise, I might have to ask Sara or one of the other recappers to cover it for me.
I think it's interesting that Tony keeps pushing this blood relationship thing on Ivan and he couldn't care less. He has NO interest in forming a relationship with JJ, but he would do anything for Tony (except bond with JJ). He keeps David and Judith at a friendly arm's length, but he considers the Galvans to be his true siblings. And in his mind Perla is his baby, and that's that. (She is his niece though.)
Blood family versus the family we make/choose. It's an interesting theme that also runs through CME.
Lucrezia sank to new lows yesterday. Not only did she have a loving mother and husband, she also had a loving father in Teodoro. There is just no excuse. JJ also sank to new lows. Esther needs to leave, asap! And she needs to go to the McGuires, the Ag Assoc, and the cops and tell them all she knows and heard. So what if she lands her husband/father of her kids in jail. He's trying to do it to her!
Anon207- The finale is Monday the 26th? Uh oh! I'm going to be in a car driving to Atlanta. I will try to track down the finale online. Otherwise, I might have to ask Sara or one of the other recappers to cover it for me.
(Oh, UA...[hug!])
I submit that the title for the final recap must be La fuerza del schadenfreude (okay, and happy endings).
Weird as it is, this show's starting to look more and more like Alguien te mira as it rolls on with its relatively/frustratingly normal people stuck in novela situations. I think that's making me appreciate Rosa Maria Bianchi and Lucero Lander more, since they're playing opposite sides of the same thankless-character coin and both doing really well at it. Even if Lucrecia desperately needs the entire population of Alamos to line up to take turns smacking some sense into her, a la Airplane!; Esther, meanwhile, needs to slap J3 once. Just once. On her way out the door.
I submit that the title for the final recap must be La fuerza del schadenfreude (okay, and happy endings).
Weird as it is, this show's starting to look more and more like Alguien te mira as it rolls on with its relatively/frustratingly normal people stuck in novela situations. I think that's making me appreciate Rosa Maria Bianchi and Lucero Lander more, since they're playing opposite sides of the same thankless-character coin and both doing really well at it. Even if Lucrecia desperately needs the entire population of Alamos to line up to take turns smacking some sense into her, a la Airplane!; Esther, meanwhile, needs to slap J3 once. Just once. On her way out the door.
When I say Lucrazia and JJ have not experienced love, I don't mean from Carlota & them. Of course Lucrazia is loved and receives love from Teodoro, Carlota, Gerardo & Lucia (Maripaz is another one who hasn't experienced love).
Of course JJ is loved and receives love from Ester, David & Judith (I think Saul wanted to love JJ but b/c of JJ's abuse just can't).
But Lucrazia is so caught up in appearances and class differences that she cannot allow herself to enjoy the love she gets, and because it doesn't come in the package she wants she doesn't think it's love!
That's why she was so surprised that Gerry took a bullet for her, after all of her disrespect. He still cared for her, after all she was the mother of his children. But he didn't want to be around her anymore b/c of her nastiness. He wanted someone loving & caring, and that was Alicia.
And by rigidly trying to stick to appearances, she's missing out on the love from Alex and will miss out on the love from Lucia & Perla. But hey, she'll have Maripaz, who couldn't give a rat's ass about her or any of them.
JJ thinks he shows his love by giving his family material things. That's not what they want. They'd give up all the material things just for some niceness from JJ. When you're sick & in a coma, your kids shouldn't be wondering how soon they can pull the plug.
Then JJ blames Tony for "stealing" Ivan away. No, JJ, you THREW Ivan away. And now you've realized that Ivan would have been the son that would made made him the proudest man in Alamos, and continued the Mondragon dynasty and instead he's continuing the McGuire dynasty and taking care of the Curiels, and he has a sad. Sit down, JJ!
In "It's a Wonderful Life," they say George Bailey was the richest man in town, because he had friends & people who cared for him.
JJ & Lucrazia are the poorest people in town, despite their wealth, b/c they don't know how to love or receive love. The only they they love are appearances & money.
Of course JJ is loved and receives love from Ester, David & Judith (I think Saul wanted to love JJ but b/c of JJ's abuse just can't).
But Lucrazia is so caught up in appearances and class differences that she cannot allow herself to enjoy the love she gets, and because it doesn't come in the package she wants she doesn't think it's love!
That's why she was so surprised that Gerry took a bullet for her, after all of her disrespect. He still cared for her, after all she was the mother of his children. But he didn't want to be around her anymore b/c of her nastiness. He wanted someone loving & caring, and that was Alicia.
And by rigidly trying to stick to appearances, she's missing out on the love from Alex and will miss out on the love from Lucia & Perla. But hey, she'll have Maripaz, who couldn't give a rat's ass about her or any of them.
JJ thinks he shows his love by giving his family material things. That's not what they want. They'd give up all the material things just for some niceness from JJ. When you're sick & in a coma, your kids shouldn't be wondering how soon they can pull the plug.
Then JJ blames Tony for "stealing" Ivan away. No, JJ, you THREW Ivan away. And now you've realized that Ivan would have been the son that would made made him the proudest man in Alamos, and continued the Mondragon dynasty and instead he's continuing the McGuire dynasty and taking care of the Curiels, and he has a sad. Sit down, JJ!
In "It's a Wonderful Life," they say George Bailey was the richest man in town, because he had friends & people who cared for him.
JJ & Lucrazia are the poorest people in town, despite their wealth, b/c they don't know how to love or receive love. The only they they love are appearances & money.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 9:46:00 AM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 9:46:00 AM EST
Vivi in DC, the promo flashed up right before the last segment, that the Gran Final was 12/26, and then a promo came on for La Que No Podia Amar which begins Jan. 2.
I think that's how STud/TdA came on, STuD ended on the 26th (or thereabouts) and TdA came on Jan. 2nd/3rd.
I think that's how STud/TdA came on, STuD ended on the 26th (or thereabouts) and TdA came on Jan. 2nd/3rd.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 9:47:00 AM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 9:47:00 AM EST
Urban- Thanks for volunteering. Are you sure? I think it's a 2 hour final.
Anon207- Great thoughts on JJ and Lucrezia. ITA.
Anon207- Great thoughts on JJ and Lucrezia. ITA.
I can deal. If it's a 2-hour one it's even more likely that it will include Maripaz' fall.
Anon207, great observation!
Anon207, great observation!
Yep, JJ and Lucrezia are two peas in a pod! They are both stuck in a bizarro antiquated world view that requires them to contantly deny day-to-day reality with the people around them. So, of course, no close relationship develops with family members as they are incapable of appreciating what they have.
I find Tony's insistence with Ivan making further peace with his "blood" rather bizarre. Ivan visiting JJ in the hospital was enough. The Tony-Ivan relationship itself is a great example of blood not ultimately mattering. Why he is pushing on this point makes no sense to me. Ivan has already done enough for himself not to feel bad when looking back on what-might-have-beens. He has no other obligation.
That was a wonderful detailed recap, Vivi. Thanks!
Audrey
I find Tony's insistence with Ivan making further peace with his "blood" rather bizarre. Ivan visiting JJ in the hospital was enough. The Tony-Ivan relationship itself is a great example of blood not ultimately mattering. Why he is pushing on this point makes no sense to me. Ivan has already done enough for himself not to feel bad when looking back on what-might-have-beens. He has no other obligation.
That was a wonderful detailed recap, Vivi. Thanks!
Audrey
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 11:28:00 AM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 11:28:00 AM EST
Well, sign me up for some Lucrezia-smacking. And some JJ-smacking. Their downfalls had better be really satisfying. I am just itching to see that smug smirk erased from JJ's idiotic bobblehead.
Esther and Judith both need to get the heck out of Dodge. JJ's sick? Boo hoo. Esther has access to the money; she can hire a nurse for him. A really big, tough one who will keep him in line.
What exactly is Tony expecting Ivan to do regarding JJ? Ivan visited him in the hospital and is civil to him. I think that is absolutely the most that could be expected. Above and beyond, really. Does Tony think they shouldn't pursue legal action against JJ for all the fraud? Because that isn't about Ivan's issues with his DNA donor. All those ranchers JJ has been stealing from all these years (while sneering at them for being poor, and lording his (THEIR) wealth over them) should get back what he's taken. It wouldn't be fair to them to just let it go.
That cage couch is so weird. Ivan looked like he thought so, too, when he went to sit down.
Esther and Judith both need to get the heck out of Dodge. JJ's sick? Boo hoo. Esther has access to the money; she can hire a nurse for him. A really big, tough one who will keep him in line.
What exactly is Tony expecting Ivan to do regarding JJ? Ivan visited him in the hospital and is civil to him. I think that is absolutely the most that could be expected. Above and beyond, really. Does Tony think they shouldn't pursue legal action against JJ for all the fraud? Because that isn't about Ivan's issues with his DNA donor. All those ranchers JJ has been stealing from all these years (while sneering at them for being poor, and lording his (THEIR) wealth over them) should get back what he's taken. It wouldn't be fair to them to just let it go.
That cage couch is so weird. Ivan looked like he thought so, too, when he went to sit down.
Tony's preaching at Ivan about JJ is a manifestation of a creature I refer to as the Forgiveness Nazi. Mostly well-meaning, these people preach that one must always forgive the wrongs directed at him.
Poppycock and balderdash. This is usually preached by people who themselves have never been victims of such things.
Ivan doesn't have to forgive JJ. It is in his business interests to be civil to him... until he faces the law about the fraud. When JJ ends up in prison for fraud nobody has to worry about him anymore. David and Judith would probably visit him out of a sense of obligation, but Ivan doesn't have to. JJ ruined Alicia's life and he ruined his own by rejecting all his children.
It is particularly appropriate that JJ's favorite -- Saul -- was the one who asked when they could pull the plug.
Poppycock and balderdash. This is usually preached by people who themselves have never been victims of such things.
Ivan doesn't have to forgive JJ. It is in his business interests to be civil to him... until he faces the law about the fraud. When JJ ends up in prison for fraud nobody has to worry about him anymore. David and Judith would probably visit him out of a sense of obligation, but Ivan doesn't have to. JJ ruined Alicia's life and he ruined his own by rejecting all his children.
It is particularly appropriate that JJ's favorite -- Saul -- was the one who asked when they could pull the plug.
Didn't Judith also ask about pulling the plug? Judith, who is so sweet and submissive, and still feels a sense of duty and love toward her father, also had her mind go in that direction. She was less blunt about it, just wondered quietly to her mother whether they'd need to make that decision, but she was thinking about it.
Lucrezia and JJ make me so ragey. How could they even THINK that Lucia should or would marry Saul? It defies all explanation. I feel sorry for Carlota...how can one even deal with a daughter who has no capacity to be reasoned with? If I were Carlota I would have ended up in a manicomio long ago; the frustration would have driven me insane.
Lucrezia and JJ make me so ragey. How could they even THINK that Lucia should or would marry Saul? It defies all explanation. I feel sorry for Carlota...how can one even deal with a daughter who has no capacity to be reasoned with? If I were Carlota I would have ended up in a manicomio long ago; the frustration would have driven me insane.
I don't think Tony wants Ivan to forgive JJ for JJ's sake, he wants Ivan to forgive JJ for IVAN's sake. Like it or not, if it weren't for JJ's sperm donation Ivan wouldn't even be here.
BUT, Ivan doesn't need to go visit JJ to grant him forgiveness. And considering Ivan has been less rage-y towards JJ, I think he's going to be fine.
And Ivan does have the capacity to forgive, he's not holding Camilo's actions against him and he could certainly make a case for doing so.
BUT, Ivan doesn't need to go visit JJ to grant him forgiveness. And considering Ivan has been less rage-y towards JJ, I think he's going to be fine.
And Ivan does have the capacity to forgive, he's not holding Camilo's actions against him and he could certainly make a case for doing so.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 1:04:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 1:04:00 PM EST
Considering that JJ wasn't a real part of Ivan's life and couldn't inflict any real damage on him, once JJ is dead or incarcerated Ivan will be fine. JJ will have gotten his just desserts for what he did to Alicia.
I think that will allow Ivan to sleep at night.
Now if anyone were to tell Ivan he needed to forgive Saul he would be justifiably angry.
Predictions:
-- JJ and Saul will go to prison.
-- Lucrazia will end up alone because Carlota will tell her to leave the house.
-- El Gordo will die.
-- Maripaz will die.
-- David will take over the family estate.
-- Esther will move back to the estate and do volunteer work. She will be an exemplary suegra to Berenice.
-- Judith will go back for an advanced degree and announce her noviago to Carlos.
-- Camilo will die defending someone.
-- Lucia and Ivan will get married.
-- Carolina will become pregnant.
-- Carlota and Tony will get together.
-- Bruno will find a novia.
Still can't decide about Antolin or Carmen.
I think that will allow Ivan to sleep at night.
Now if anyone were to tell Ivan he needed to forgive Saul he would be justifiably angry.
Predictions:
-- JJ and Saul will go to prison.
-- Lucrazia will end up alone because Carlota will tell her to leave the house.
-- El Gordo will die.
-- Maripaz will die.
-- David will take over the family estate.
-- Esther will move back to the estate and do volunteer work. She will be an exemplary suegra to Berenice.
-- Judith will go back for an advanced degree and announce her noviago to Carlos.
-- Camilo will die defending someone.
-- Lucia and Ivan will get married.
-- Carolina will become pregnant.
-- Carlota and Tony will get together.
-- Bruno will find a novia.
Still can't decide about Antolin or Carmen.
Does anyone else think that Lucia should just leave this town and get away from all these pushy people? I know some of it is from love (Ivan, Carly), but not all (Lucrezia). She needs to find a shrink in Hermosillo or somewhere and get the heck out for a few days to get her self together. For her, it's like the rape just happened and Ivan, et al need to back off a little.
UA- Totally agree with you about the forgiveness thing. I mean, we can't stay angry all the time or we may end up like Lucrezia, but why forgive? And you definitly can't forgive something that happened to someone else (Tony to JJ). As long as Ivan is doing well and moving on, then why give JJ the peace of mind? It's not like he's even trying to change. He can just va al infierno and take Saul with him. And Gorrrrrrdo too.
Hopefully Esther is done with all the forgiving too. David needs to get her a divorce lawyer, stat! JJ is almost making Maripaz look good. They should've pulled the plug when they had the chance.
Kelly
UA- Totally agree with you about the forgiveness thing. I mean, we can't stay angry all the time or we may end up like Lucrezia, but why forgive? And you definitly can't forgive something that happened to someone else (Tony to JJ). As long as Ivan is doing well and moving on, then why give JJ the peace of mind? It's not like he's even trying to change. He can just va al infierno and take Saul with him. And Gorrrrrrdo too.
Hopefully Esther is done with all the forgiving too. David needs to get her a divorce lawyer, stat! JJ is almost making Maripaz look good. They should've pulled the plug when they had the chance.
Kelly
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 1:52:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 1:52:00 PM EST
On the plus side of forgiveness, when it's deserving, it may keep Camillo alive! If he can keep from going back to crazy, his repaired relationship with Ivan may save him. Celia gets to be happy and we get to be happy for her. ANd Camillo gets to keep walking around with his shirt off. Merry Christmas to us.
Kelly
Kelly
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 1:55:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 1:55:00 PM EST
I don't think Ivan hates JJ with the rage he did before either. Otherwise, he wouldn't have even gone to the hospital and been civil to him. He's just indifferent to him. I think that's perfectly ok, and he doesn't need to move to a spiritually higher plane of forgiveness.
He has forgiven Camilo and Antolin, because they are people who are important to him and who he doesn't want to lose. I think those are the only ones that should matter to Tony and he should praise Ivan for being able to move on so quickly with those two. Drop the JJ thing already.
He has forgiven Camilo and Antolin, because they are people who are important to him and who he doesn't want to lose. I think those are the only ones that should matter to Tony and he should praise Ivan for being able to move on so quickly with those two. Drop the JJ thing already.
"She needs to find a shrink in Hermosillo or somewhere and get the heck out for a few days to get her self together."
Kelly- I totally understand what you're saying and it is true that for Lucia, who is only now remembering, it's like the rape happened yesterday.
But I also understand how the people who love her feel and how much they just want to help her. The problem is, it's Lucia's nature to shut herself off. If she doesn't have an outside push, she just shuts down for good. I think Carly, Ivan and Bernie know this. Keep in mind that because she has been hiding out since becoming aware of the rape, she even missed the wedding of Carolina! That's major. If Lucrezia weren't around making things difficult, I think the people who really love her could actually be of real help getting her through the darkness. Carly, Alex, Ivan, Perlita, Carolina and Bernie could all help.
Kelly- I totally understand what you're saying and it is true that for Lucia, who is only now remembering, it's like the rape happened yesterday.
But I also understand how the people who love her feel and how much they just want to help her. The problem is, it's Lucia's nature to shut herself off. If she doesn't have an outside push, she just shuts down for good. I think Carly, Ivan and Bernie know this. Keep in mind that because she has been hiding out since becoming aware of the rape, she even missed the wedding of Carolina! That's major. If Lucrezia weren't around making things difficult, I think the people who really love her could actually be of real help getting her through the darkness. Carly, Alex, Ivan, Perlita, Carolina and Bernie could all help.
Viv- good point. Send Lucrezia to Hermosillo instead. And make her take MP with her. That's punishment for them both.
Kelly
Kelly
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 2:50:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 2:50:00 PM EST
I am enjoying this interesting conversation about forgiveness. I think Tony and the writers are confusing forgiveness with unrealistic expectations. Ivan does (and I believe has) need to forgive JJ but that doesn't mean he needs to be JJ's best buddy. I think too often in TNs this type of behavior akin to being a doormat to horrible people is supposed to show how good a person is. ITA w/UA in that this is "poppycock and balderdash." Forgiving a verbally abusive person, who happens to be your parent, is one thing but it is not wise to continue to put yourself in a position for s/he to continue to abuse you (and TNs do, IMO, promote this behavior/attitude). As people suggested about Lucia, forgive and move to the US.
Didn't anyone else think it was pushy and borderline creepy for Ivan to even be asking Lucia to remember their "pasion"? Why would you bring up sex to a woman who's just realized she was raped? Ivan just grosses me out.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 3:51:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 3:51:00 PM EST
Tks Vivi
Forgive JJ, why???? He is turning into a worse pedaza de mierda, frame his wife for his thievery???? Is her name on any cks? I'm sure David will save his mother.
I agree, Iván should leave pasión out of this, tender love & understanding are what Lucia needs & horrors about Iván forgiving her but that might have been when he thought she fooled around. Do not even mention sex Iván!!!!!!!!
I think we are really going to the dark side with "La que no podía amar". Hope Familia keeps up with the silliness to take the edge off.
Variopinta
Forgive JJ, why???? He is turning into a worse pedaza de mierda, frame his wife for his thievery???? Is her name on any cks? I'm sure David will save his mother.
I agree, Iván should leave pasión out of this, tender love & understanding are what Lucia needs & horrors about Iván forgiving her but that might have been when he thought she fooled around. Do not even mention sex Iván!!!!!!!!
I think we are really going to the dark side with "La que no podía amar". Hope Familia keeps up with the silliness to take the edge off.
Variopinta
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 4:29:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 4:29:00 PM EST
Anon- When Ivan spoke of their passionate love, I didn't take it as him taking about sex. He said amor apasionado, he never said hacer el amor apasionado. It was not sex he was talking about. It was love he was talking about.
I agree that Ivan was wrong to bring that up. He doesn't understand Lucia's gut-level reaction to what happened to her and how that will affect her relationship with him.
Years ago there was a British miniseries called Poldark in which a young woman fell in love with a hard-working young man who was beneath her social class. She was forced by relatives to marry a hypocritical minister who raped her every night until she became pregnant. This made her so repulsed by sex that she became touchphobic afterward. When the baby was born she threatened to kill him if her husband ever dared to touch her again. One night not long thereafter he died in a riding accident. She gladly gave the baby to her suegra and decided to seek a position as a governess. The young blacksmith found her and begged her to live with him even if they never had sex. When she protested that she was "damaged" he told her that she was still the same girl he loved and he would be content to live with her under any conditions she set.
It would have been wonderful if the writers would have put words like that in Ivan's mouth.
Years ago there was a British miniseries called Poldark in which a young woman fell in love with a hard-working young man who was beneath her social class. She was forced by relatives to marry a hypocritical minister who raped her every night until she became pregnant. This made her so repulsed by sex that she became touchphobic afterward. When the baby was born she threatened to kill him if her husband ever dared to touch her again. One night not long thereafter he died in a riding accident. She gladly gave the baby to her suegra and decided to seek a position as a governess. The young blacksmith found her and begged her to live with him even if they never had sex. When she protested that she was "damaged" he told her that she was still the same girl he loved and he would be content to live with her under any conditions she set.
It would have been wonderful if the writers would have put words like that in Ivan's mouth.
I always enjoy your recaps Vivi. I missed the last 10 minutes because I taped 1 hour and it started and ended late. I hate it when they do that. But that's what I love about this site. I don't have to miss anything.
I'm feeling more optimistic about Camilo being alive at the end. He seems to have put his jealousies in perspective and is willing to see where he has erred. Good on him. I didn't want to hate him. He shouldn't care if Maripaz spills the beans about them sleeping together. He is getting divorced, won't have custody of Perla, and it will only make Maripaz look bad when it comes out.
I'm feeling more optimistic about Camilo being alive at the end. He seems to have put his jealousies in perspective and is willing to see where he has erred. Good on him. I didn't want to hate him. He shouldn't care if Maripaz spills the beans about them sleeping together. He is getting divorced, won't have custody of Perla, and it will only make Maripaz look bad when it comes out.
UA- Did she end up in a convent? Her mother and brother had forced her to marry the horrible guy and she went back to them when the husband died? The story sounds familiar. It was disturbing. Ivan for sure needs to not mention sex. Just be supportive without being pushy, and let the woman work through this. Sheesh.
Kelly
Kelly
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 5:46:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 5:46:00 PM EST
I think MariPaz is grasping at straws. Letting that particular mangy cat out of the bag should have no effect. The people it would hurt already know. Maybe she thinks if she damaged his reputation, his position at the ag ass would be in trouble, but those ranchers put up with JJ for how many years? Maybe they're now on a witch hunt and looking to root out corruption, but I don't think as a group they'll care as much about marital fidelity in their leader as they care about theft.
I think Ivan means well but he just doesn't get what Lucia is going through. On an intellectual level he understands that she was violated and it was wrong, but he isn't seeing how creepy-crawled-freaked-out-hypersensitive-traumatized that would make her.
I think Ivan means well but he just doesn't get what Lucia is going through. On an intellectual level he understands that she was violated and it was wrong, but he isn't seeing how creepy-crawled-freaked-out-hypersensitive-traumatized that would make her.
I seem to remember in Italy back in the days of Romeo & Juliet that men, young or otherwise would climb balconies rape or have sex with girls so they would be forced to marry them.
Variopinta
Variopinta
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 6:05:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 6:05:00 PM EST
I think MariPaz is grasping at straws. Letting that particular mangy cat out of the bag should have no effect. The people it would hurt already know. Maybe she thinks if she damaged his reputation, his position at the ag ass would be in trouble, but those ranchers put up with JJ for how many years? Maybe they're now on a witch hunt and looking to root out corruption, but I don't think as a group they'll care as much about marital fidelity in their leader as they care about theft.
I think Ivan means well but he just doesn't get what Lucia is going through. On an intellectual level he understands that she was violated and it was wrong, but he isn't seeing how creepy-crawled-freaked-out-hypersensitive-traumatized that would make her.
I think Ivan means well but he just doesn't get what Lucia is going through. On an intellectual level he understands that she was violated and it was wrong, but he isn't seeing how creepy-crawled-freaked-out-hypersensitive-traumatized that would make her.
Kelly, Morwenna didn't enter a convent (that was 18th-C England and the family was not Catholic). She went with Drake. A year later she was ready to have a real marriage with him.
There may have been a novela with a girl who entered a convent after a trauma like this, but I don't think it would have been a Televisa production.
Interesting that you bring this up now because Latele Novela Network just started re-running Terra Nostra. That series has a wealthy family where one of the two daughters wants to enter a convent, but her parents actually object!
There may have been a novela with a girl who entered a convent after a trauma like this, but I don't think it would have been a Televisa production.
Interesting that you bring this up now because Latele Novela Network just started re-running Terra Nostra. That series has a wealthy family where one of the two daughters wants to enter a convent, but her parents actually object!
I must have seen something else. When I write my telenovela, no one gets raped. There may be an attempt but she fights back and beats the guy until he begs for mercy. She will not give it.
I'm pretty sure between all of us, we could come up with a story line that Televisa would buy. That'll be next year's project.
Kelly
I'm pretty sure between all of us, we could come up with a story line that Televisa would buy. That'll be next year's project.
Kelly
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 6:37:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 at 6:37:00 PM EST
I keep thinking as soon as I finish a few other projects and have more free time, I'm going to write a telenovela. I already have a setup in mind. I have no delusions that anyone would want to produce my show, but it will be fun to plot out, and translating it to Spanish will be a good learning exercise.
Have you actually written a whole show, UA, or just plotted one out? Either way I'm impressed and would love to see it appear on the screen! We already know you have amazing writing talents!
Have you actually written a whole show, UA, or just plotted one out? Either way I'm impressed and would love to see it appear on the screen! We already know you have amazing writing talents!
The only entire script I ever wrote -- which was never produced -- was a sketch based on Dark Shadows by way of Sex & the City. I read it aloud to two friends from the DS world and they liked it, but it would have required 13 actors and a complicated set.
Thank you for the welcome everyone! :) I am a 4th generation novela watcher. My bisabuela watched them, so did my abuelita, and soon my mother and I got hooked. Grandma passed away nearly 8 years ago and we are still watching them. When I was younger I was kind of embarrassed to admit I liked some TNs, but I'm totally over that.
Variopinta, you're right. I'm a history major, and have read a lot about the Middle Ages. Kidnapping and raping heiresses used to be a way for younger sons (who were poor and lacking titles due to primogeniture) to gain lands and titles because the poor victim was expected to marry her rapist. Forget 200 years ago, sometimes I think JJ is stuck in the 12th century, and in a sense it surprises me that he didn't come up with the idea of Saul raping Lucia himself. Anyway, yeah, it grosses me out and I hope JJ and Saul have huge anvils waiting for them.
My word verification btw is maten, which I can't blame Ivan, Camilo, Antolin, and David for wanting to do with Saul.
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Variopinta, you're right. I'm a history major, and have read a lot about the Middle Ages. Kidnapping and raping heiresses used to be a way for younger sons (who were poor and lacking titles due to primogeniture) to gain lands and titles because the poor victim was expected to marry her rapist. Forget 200 years ago, sometimes I think JJ is stuck in the 12th century, and in a sense it surprises me that he didn't come up with the idea of Saul raping Lucia himself. Anyway, yeah, it grosses me out and I hope JJ and Saul have huge anvils waiting for them.
My word verification btw is maten, which I can't blame Ivan, Camilo, Antolin, and David for wanting to do with Saul.
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