Caray, Caray!

Jardinera, I can't wait for your brew. You are always full of snark. Hated this episode with that damned whip.
 

Yep, Rohell is at his freakiest here. This was a DARK episode. Dark dark dark. Looking forward to the recap with lots of snark!
 

Gonna be hard to redeem this fellow. But the tension about how that does or does not happen will keep us guessing and involved.
 

Ok, this time I won't think you are making coffee.
 

I'm anxiously awaiting your recap which I know will be good Jardinera. What a ugly finish to a ugly week. Someone needs to hide that whip so that Rog can never brandish it again. I'm glad Efrain stepped in between Rog and Cinthia or else she would have gotten the brunt of that whipping which it was intended for. I think if that had happened, then Rog would have crossed the point of being irredeemable. That final scene was so disturbing on so many levels that I have to keep reminding myself that hopefully this dark period won't last long or else I would have already jumped off the ship.
 

I'm with everyone else. This episode was dark. This whole period is dark. I am so disgusted with it all right now. The avances with Cupcake kissing Guscake made me want to hurl, but I don't want her with Rohell either because he was such a jackwagon douchebag all week. I didn't like anybody this week.

* I can't like the Gus character. Too innocent, naive, googley-eyed and blech for me.

* Cin showed her true spoiled brat self.

* Vainy showed her true spoiled brat self. I don't care what she says, she never loved Rohell. In her youth she loved his money...but not enough to put up with his paralysis. Now she's just pissed that he likes someone better.

* Tia is manipulative, selfish and greedy.

* Bruno is manipulative, selfish and greedy.

* Miguel is a drunk dipsh*t.

* Mercedes is a controlling, whiny busybody.

* Effer is just as ass.

* Conned is sad, but I don't feel any sympathy for her.

Ana Pau and Dany need to grab Maria and get the hell out of Chiapas and make better lives for themselves.

It's hard to like a show when I hate this many characters.

It *better* get better!

Whew. Glad I got that off my chest.
 

Sara-
Tell us how you really feel,lol.
 

Sorry 'bout that. I went to bed in a huff last night and I'm still annoyed.
*justashowjustashowjustashow*
 

Sara-
Don't apologize for expressing your opinion. I agreed with every single item.
 

I personally think Sinthia went too far slapping Rogelio when she was trying to get a rise out of him about Ana Paula. We all know she is completely off base about her and since she knows Rogelio's temper she was almost asking for this.

Which doesn't justify his reaction, but Sinthia should have known better.

Since he's not thinking clearly at this point I would not be surprised if it takes at least ten episodes for the meaning of Sinthia's tears to sink in for Rogelio.

We're now going through the same stuff with Rogelio that we did with Victoria in TdA. No surprise, but we have to hope it doesn't last as long.

Sara: To your point about Vainessa, there is no way in the world she could ever have talked him into living in the city even before his accident. Had the accident never happened they would be divorced by now due to irreconcilable differences.

Tia MentiRosa won't -- but should -- fess up at this point if she really wants Ana Paula back with Rogelio. I wonder whether she will contact him (or he her). I'll be finding out later as I try to get a jump on Monday.
 

"I personally think Sinthia went too far slapping Rogelio when she was trying to get a rise out of him about Ana Paula."
---
I'm right there with you. Sin *wanted* to anger Rohell. It's the only reason she was slapping him. She was being manipulative. I didn't like when AP slapped Rohell earlier this week, but I could completely understand the frustration and desperation. Sin was just being abusive--physically and mentally.
 

I hope somebody understood the conversation with David about the construction project. While that's a lot less important than everything else that happened in this episode I think it will mean something later.
 

David needs a loan which Rohell will gladly give if there are some shenanigans IRT the company truck. I didn't get it all but it seems Rohell is scheming to get Miguel back in la carcel.
 

If the avances showing the two cakes kissing isn't someone's fantasy, then it looks like those two get together. I was really pulling for Rog too, even after all that he's done.
 

I don't agree about Sin's slap. She did it cause she was embarrassed. She brought her friend and her potential boyfriend to the Hell Fuerte and then Rohell was screaming and having a cow. Then they left to stay in town. I think Sin thought he would be on his best behavior since there were guests, but she misjudged him. The hate for the Cupcake was thrown in there too when she slapped the crap out of him. I think Sin thought he would never hit her with that damned whip. Boy was she wrong, and once again Effer gets it.
 

I don't think that Sinthia should have expected anything different from Rogelio in view of her absence during the beginning of his redemption. There was major tension on the wedding day and she wasn't around to see anything beyond that.

And when did they last have houseguests, anyway?

And Vainessa showing up in the middle of all this is the last thing anybody needs.
 

I think it's because he never does his whipping in public. He may have carried that whip in town but as far as we know he has never used it. That is what I was getting at. Fed was also staying there. I don't know if he has ever used that whip around Vainy either.
 

I just watched the episode today. I don't know, Gus may be a cream puff, but Rohell is starting to make the husband in "Sleeping With the Enemy" look like a lamb. Those bars were going a bit far, no?? Not sure Rohell can be redeemed, especially if he plays a significant role in getting Miguel jailed again.
 

I've pretty much had it with Rohell. Disgusting! For viewers who thought he wasn't that serious about revenge at AP - how did you like his demand that David again press stolen vehicle charges against Miguel? He's not acting like a man who will be quick to forgive, and I can't stand his attitude of right to abuse everyone. This is now about property rights and seeing AP as chattel, nothing else.

Thanks for giving us a place to "talk amongst ourselves", Jardinera. It's really nice while waiting for the "main course" of a recap. Specially when you have to get some frustration off your chest.

Audrey
 

And what the heck was going on with Cinthia slapping Rohell. That made NO SENSE!!! She's supposed to be afraid of him.

Audrey
 

I agree that Cinthia probably slapped Rogelio because she hates Cupcake. Cupcake's disappearance ruined her guests visiting. And she wanted to maximize Rohell's feelings of humiliation for being left. I guess she was dying to say "I told you so" but she did more than that - she told Rohell to look at how stupid he was! And I suppose she also hates Rohell for a million reasons including her own failings.

But why Cinthia hates Cupcake so much overall I don't begin to understand. Is it only because Cinthia despises the lower classes (though she'll gladly consent to a roll in the hay - hey that's expected service!) and Cupcake got above her station? She already despised Cupcake before Vanessa was dumped although obviously that incident charged the hate.

Cupcakes represents something to Cinthia that I don't begin to understand. And her class prejudice goes way beyond something.

The line has been crossed for me. I don't see how the writers can redeem Rohell. I doubt I'll buy whatever they come up with. I'd much rather see Cupcake with Guscake now. Who cares if he is boring - so is AP.

Audrey
 

He is just bitter and since he didn't manage to prove his innocence to her, he will try to convince her to come back. I don't take his threats seriously, he just tries to force her hand. And those whips reminded me of the way he hit Bruno, more or less for the same reason, because he was genuinely concerned for her safety.

And Cinthia was obviously just teasing him and viciously making fun of his condition. Those slaps and words were meant to hurt Rogelio. Her problem was with him, not with AP.

Again, I found it very cheap how Efrain rescued Cinthia. I hate how they are trying to redeem jerks so easily. He was a swine with Consuelo the other episode and now they want to erase all that and transform him in Cinthia's hero.

I believe Rogelio is genuinely worried about her...I mean, who wouldn't be? With all his sometimes bad attitude, he loves her. She just left without anything except a horse and Margarito.

And frankly, that avance is disgusting. I will never forgive her for that. Ok, you hate your husband at the moment, but you are MARRIED to him and you have to respect the vows you made, even if it's just for a year. It's a matter of dignity. That avance smells like adultery to me and despite their big "3-days love", they have no excuse for doing that. I can't believe that she jumps on Gus, as if she never felt ANYTHING for her husband. I am gobsmacked by how easily she goes from one man to the other, like a heartless BEEP! Hello? Some remorse, please? Doubts, maybe? Sorry hahaha I am just very very pissed at what it's happening. She seems to entertain herself, while Rogelio is at home, worried and crying for her safety.
 

But is Sinthia truly afraid of him? I don't think he has ever actually abused her physically. But he has contributed to abusing her emotionally, which is actually worse.

We know not the origin of her indolence. Was she always lazy and self-indulgent or is she a self-fulfilled prophesy originating in her father's sexist attitudes? we know that Rogelio doesn't completely share those attitudes, but he firmly believes this of Sinthia. Would she have flourished if her father had allowed her to go to college? Perhaps. I don't think she's been given a chance to find her own path in life so everyone around her is convinced she is incapable.

Considering she doesn't see that Vainessa would be the worst possible wife for her brother I am almost inclined to agree.

Audrey, I just read your post. I think her hatred of Cupcake is based to some extent in envy: She educated herself and can move up in the world without a man. And she can marry up because she is pretty and smart. She has room to move up. Sinthia doesn't unless she moves to D.F. or some equivalent city out of the country.
 

[i]Cupcakes represents something to Cinthia that I don't begin to understand. And her class prejudice goes way beyond something.[/i]

You know, just my two cents, but I think that she hates Ana Paula because she managed to do what she didn't all these years with Rogelio: bring him back to what he was before. She envies her because she conquered Rogelio's heart and knew how to make him a softy again. She managed to make him laugh, to make him positive and showed us all his true self. Of course, Cinthia couldn't do all that because her lazy ass was never interested in doing something useful. She probably is also afraid that AP could cost her her fortune, thinking that Rogelio is so bewitched by AP, that he would be capable of giving her all his money and properties.

I know I might be alone in this, but Rogelio hasn't crossed the line yet. He's a douche right now, but I give him mitigating circumstances for the whole situation he's in. If he would know that AP is OK, he wouldn't be like that, but all this uncertainty and accusations make him go ballistic. He probably needs some anger management sessions, but in my eyes, he's still redeemable.
 

" I found it very cheap how Efrain rescued Cinthia. I hate how they are trying to redeem jerks so easily. "

I think Efraín stepping in to receive the whipping for Cinthia was also done for Rogelio. Just imagine the reaction from the audience to that sight...

And I do believe Efraín loves Cinthia and would try to protect her, so I didn't feel the scene was unbelievable. But the person he has hurt the most is Consuelo, so I don't think this particular action redeems him of that anyway.

Jarocha
 

"And I do believe Efraín loves Cinthia and would try to protect her, so I didn't feel the scene was unbelievable. But the person he has hurt the most is Consuelo, so I don't think this particular action redeems him of that anyway."

I believe that too. He might be a mujeriego, but his true love is Cinthia; he would marry her in a heartbeat if she would say 'yes'. I didn't say it was unbelievable, but cheap. To me, it DID seem that it was put there in an attempt to redeem him for what he did to Consu.
 

They pushed Rohell to the very, very EDGE there with him almost whipping Sin. I agree, had one tip of that lash hit Sin, it would be all over and there would be no redemption for Rohell.

I thought Sin was so horrible to taunt him like that. He's not all that stable anyway—she has to know that he's very hurt, very upset about Cupcake leaving, and then to taunt him and HIT him? Let's for a second forget that he's a complete jackass and douchebag—nobody should do that to a guy whose wife has just left him.

I also don't get the whole whipping Effer-instead-of-Sin thing. I know we're supposed to see how far down Rohell has sunk, and how on the edge he is (and he is!) but I don't get the logistics. I'm not even for sure positive that he would have whipped Sin, had not Effer jumped in the way. (We'll never know.) It's not like he couldn't see that it was Effer he was whipping. But anyway.

Sin is slapping him around, taunting him, and when he finally breaks and has enough, he snaps his whip his side. She jumps back—uh oh, I've pissed off my douchebag brother a little too much. She's already out of the way of his whip. All she has to do is move quick and she's safe. He won't whip her—he won't be able to reach her. It isn't like what he did with poor Hugo (which I STILL haven't got over—poor Hugo!), where he hits him IN THE FACE with NO WARNING. Sin had plenty of warning, and she had time to move out of the way and get out of his face, which is all that he wanted. So why Effer had to jump in there and stick around to take a beating is just weird. What the heck? The guy's in a wheelchair. Just move out of the way. He can't chase you down while still whipping that thing. Good grief. I need my beanie tightened.

As for AP going back with Gus—I have a completely different take on it from you, Alexandra, which is kind of funny because we're both such Rogelianas! LOL.

I knew that there would be a love triangle, there has to be for the plot to drag out. I knew that at some point Cupcake would have some meaningful exchange with Gus again. The only way I could accept it was if Cupcake absolutely is convinced that her "marriage" with Rohell is done and dead and he deserves no husbandly consideration. Which is where she is at now. How much worse can her opinion be of him than to think he tried to kill her novio so he could have her for himself? So Rohell is, in essence, dead to her. Under those circumstances, I can see her rushing into Gus's arms.

Plus, you know, he's behaving like a complete and total douche.

It will be later, when the truth comes out and she realizes that Rohell had nothing to do with Gus's beating that she'll be going, "uh oh." And then she'll remember how many times he tried and tried to explain to her, tried to get her to listen, and she wouldn't.

But on the other hand, he was a complete douche at times too. He lost his cool and waved his whip at her. Who wants to stick around for THAT? I love Rohell, but seriously, that's just too much douchiness.

To be continued . . . (LOL, I am long-winded for this one!)
 

(continued . . .)


I agree, though, that I hate seeing Cupcake with Gus because you know it's going to complicate things more and cause pain for everyone in the long run. But I can't fault her for it—she is convinced that her husband is a violent douche capable of hiring someone to get her novio "out of the way." She's convinced of this in part because she's so stubborn and hard-headed, but still, that's where she is at the moment. She feels no obligation to be "faithful" to a douchebag like that. (Though in truth, if he were that much of a douchebag, the best course of action might be to carefully and quietly put in the year with him and then get the hell outta there. But that's a lot to ask from anyone, especially someone like Cupcake. Plus, who knows, a true douche might find a way to make her stick around longer. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.)
 

All these years those Summer's Eve commercials made it look like a douche is a pleasant refreshing thing...

Who knew?

Carlos
 

I also agree, that Rohell's distress and freakout is in part that Cupcake left him for some incomprehensible reason that he can't get. And it's also that she's in real danger. She left in such an unplanned, lame-brained way. He can't know if it'll be months before they'll find her body washed up by the river, or fallen down some ditch somewhere, or whatever. For all his douchiness and possessiveness, he does love her, and that's fueling the freakout.
 

Thanks for your thoughts folks.

Cinthia's problem with AP is envy - I'm inclined to agree. That makes sense to me.

And UA I'm with you. Cinthia is so absolutely blind to the obvious truths around her that I'm inclined to believe her failings are as much nature as nurture. She has absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Sorry, in my eyes Rohell has gone WAY beyond frustrated anger or anger management problems. He's just downright mean and vengeful. He's happy to cause other people to suffer if it means he gets what he wants. He coerced the marriage. AP owes him nothing in terms of being a loyal wife or love partner. She would have never married him if she thought Gus were alive.

Audrey
 

Thank you Elvira! I agree with most things you said, although for me, AP is the one who isn't redeemable. I can't understand how she has zero doubts, how she can throw Rogelio to the trashcan so easily, without even the slightest feeling or hope that she might be terribly mistaken in her judgment. If she and Gus would love each other so much, they would be able to wait a year until that contract finishes.

She would have never married him if she thought Gus were alive.

Probably, BUT...Gus himself told her that she should return to the hacienda and because of their financial status, she would have gone back to him. I am almost sure that with Gus alive or that, she would have continued nursing Rogelio. And spending so much time with Rogelio could have led to...love, maybe? Sure, she was in love with Gus at that point, but there is no reason why we shouldn't believe that Rogelio could have won her heart even with Gus "alive". After all, she gave hints of having feelings for Rogelio from early on.
 

Audrey wrote: "AP owes him nothing in terms of being a loyal wife or love partner. She would have never married him if she thought Gus were alive."

I agree with this in essence, but I think things changed for the marriage (for both of them) once Cupcake agreed to give the marriage a chance to be "real." She was kissing Rohell, she was talking about the kids they'd adopt, and so forth and so on. The relationship had moved on beyond the "fake marriage for show for a year." But at the same time, this was all agreed to on her part because she thought Gus was dead.

Let's say that Bruno hadn't interfered and put Gus's things in Rohell's office, and that Cupcake and Rohell were still getting along and getting closer. So Cupcake didn't run away and Gus came to the Hacienda. I don't think Cupcake would have rushed into Gus's arms, and I think she would have been wrong had she done so (because she had the contract to fulfill and the year wasn't up). She would have been terribly conflicted, but she wouldn't have run off with him or anything. But I also think she never would have let things go further with Rohell. She would have probably told Rohell, look, I tried but it's not going to work out, sorry about that, I'll put in the year and then it's over.

Had she not been convinced that Rohell tried to kill Gus, she would have "owed" Rohell the pretense of a marriage for a year, and that would have included not taking up with another guy during that year. But after that, all bets would have been off, and it would have been bye bye Rohell, nice knowing you.
 

I meant *Gus alive or not, bummer!

And I forgot, thankfully a friend reminded me that Cinthia was also pissed that Rogelio turned her hacienda date with Gus into an awkward moment, so she probably blames him for looking bad in Gus's eyes. However, what she did to Rogelio was cruel and heartless.


Seriously, I can't take his threats seriously. It's like being angry with someone and telling him to BEEP off...but you don't really mean that. I doubt anything else will happen to Miguel, unless he does something incredibly stupid again. Don't forget that he was never accused of stealing the truck. He went to jail because he killed two people. Before demanding him for robbing it, he was already out THANKS TO Rogelio. Besides, he could use some jail time, he's a moron.
 

Alexandra, some good points you brought up and I think you have a point. Had Gus not been beat up and had Cupcake gone to work for Rohell for a year, who knows what would have happened. It's not like she was indifferent to Rohell, and maybe (had he kept his douchebag side suppressed) he would have won her over in that year. (Let's face it, when he's not being a douche, he's much more interesting to Gus—well at least to me he is! Though I do admire Gus's eyelashes! LOL.) And who knows, had not Bruno interfered and convinced AP that Rohell tried to kill Gus, maybe during her year contract, Rohell could have won her over, even after she knew Gus was alive.

This is all assuming that Rohell could keep his cool and not lose it and behave like a douche. LOL.

I think both characters are redeemable, but it's going to be a complicated road they'll take! LOL.
 

If you're wondering what made Rohell cross the line in my eyes - there are two things.

1. Whipping loyal Hugo across the face - because Hugo didn't manage to keep AP on a leash.

2. Ordering David to press charges against Miguel for stealing the truck so that Miguel would be sent back to jail. This to coerce AP again. This was not the act of a man horrified over his wife's failure to appear or some flash of anger. This was cold and calculated and heartless. This was about ownership and control of another human being. I'm not sure how the writers ever convince me he didn't really mean it or that he was overcome with grief.

Rohell could take the second one back. But I won't be sure of it - you can't trust a man with those kinds of instincts.

Audrey
 

For me, crossing the line means killing someone, trying to kill someone or beating someone till almost dead. Rogelio hasn't done any of these things and even now, everything he does is not because that's the way he is, but because he's bitter/sad/angry/worried/depressed/in love. It's not something he usually does, he was just pushed too far.

I understand why many of you would stop supporting him, but let's not forget how unreasonable and crazy AP was all these episodes.
 

Audrey, yeah, I know, trying to get Miguel put in jail again is such a control freak, douchey thing to do. It's the act of a petulant jerk who is having a tantrum. He needs to GROW UP and that will be a long process.

At least the pressing charges thing is something that can be undone, and in the back of Rohell's mind, I suspect he knows this. I think he did it because he's so filled with douchey bitterness and it "felt" good to do it at the time, but he knows it can be undone, so it gives him a feeling of satisfaction, but with the option of backing out later. (This is just my take on it.)

I still am very angry about the Hugo thing. Of all his douchiness, that is the one that bothers me the most.
 

"I know I might be alone in this, but Rogelio hasn't crossed the line yet."

I agree with you Alexandra. As bad as Friday's episode was with the whipping, Rog hasn't crossed the line that he can't change. He has to want to change for himself and not for anybody else including AP.

Speaking of which, I too was disgusted by the previews too of her and Gus sucking face. She's cheating on Rog even if she doesn't like him for the moment. She seemed the type to at least respect her marriage vows but she's willing to break them just to have nothing else to do with Rog. Just my opinion of course.
 

Alexandra,

"...but let's not forget how unreasonable and crazy AP was all these episodes."

Dang! I'm sorry... I must have missed those.

Carlos
 

Alexandra, yes I agree that "unredeemable" means killing someone or maiming someone or something really un-undoable like that.

This is a TN where we wear our beanies, so we can cut someone some slack and see how things pan out, because there's no risk to us. That's the fun of it! They push a character to the edge and we see how far they'll go, and then we sit around and see if the writers can convince us that the character can be redeemed.

Had Rohell been a real person that I knew, I wouldn't cut him very much slack. Enough is enough. I'd insist that he get therapy and if he didn't IMMEDIATELY, I'd cut all ties to him. He's just too difficult as he is right now. (And that is an understatement!)
 

LOL @Carlos for the douche comment.
 

Dang! I'm sorry... I must have missed those.

Oh Carlos, come on! Hitting and slapping Rogelio, calling him ASESINO ASESINO, brainwashing a child's mind making him think the worst of Rogelio, escaping the hacienda with a child and a horse, with no money, clothes or food, being obsessed with her boring love of 2-3 days, not wanting to believe at least a bit that she might be in fact wrong, organizing a funeral for a necklace and so on...

Don't say you missed all these things.
 

He knows that Miguel was almost killed last time he was in jail. He knows that is what AP would be most terrorized about.

Audrey
 

To be fair, of the two characters, Rohell is far, far more unreasonable.

I can sympathize with Cupcake to an extent with the belief that Rohell is a murderer. It must have been a complete shock for her to find Gus's things in Rohell's office. But still, she was so unyielding, even when Dani and Miguel were starting to wonder a bit and were trying to get her to calm down.

As for her love for Gus, that's how she feels, she's entitled to mourn him even though their love was sort of half-baked. She doesn't "owe" Rohell or anyone else her love, and if she never wants to get over Gus for the rest of her life, well, it's stupid and a waste, but that's her choice to make.

I do think that once she agreed to give Rohell a chance and got his hopes up, that she should have tried to calm down and listen to him regarding finding Gus's stuff in his office. But she didn't—she ran off half-cocked on a horse with no food and during bad weather. She's young, she's a bit dim-witted, and she is so all-fired sure that she's right.

But that's nothing compared to some of the douchebaggery that Rohell has done! At the same time, like I keep on saying, Rohell is the way he is because he needs to grow up, and also because life has sucked for him (and not all of it has been his fault). He can improve and be better, but it'll be a gradual process.
 

@Carlos Or wait...were you jokingly defending AP?

@Pirate Babe
The previews are indeed disgusting. This was the worst part of the whole telenovela for me and I never quite managed to forgive AP for what she does in these episodes. For someone who claims to be as dignified as AP, she crosses some lines of her own right there. Marriage is marriage...even if initially it wasn't supposed to be something more than a contract, she still promised to behave like a wife. Eventually, she admitted having feelings for Rogelio, so I can't believe that she does that with Gus, without having second thoughts, without thinking that she might be wrong, without giving Rogelio the benefit of the doubt. If she wouldn't pretend to be such a woman of virtue, I wouldn't mind it that much, but respecting her promise is the most honorable thing to do.

Sure, she might say she did it because she thought he was a murderer or a failed murderer, since her dear Gussy is still alive. Still, I can't believe that you would start kissing someone who you were starting to forget because of someone else without ANY hesitation. But no, she quickly erases everything she went through with Roger. Three episodes ago she was in bed with Roger and now she kisses her ex, while Rogelio is sad as hell. I don't know how anyone could have such a quick change of heart even in her circumstances. Yuck!

Is it so hard to wait a year to do this kind of stuff?
 

I never once hated Rogelio's character and probably because he always admitted to having flaws - to himself or to AP/Maria. He knew he wasn't doing things right all the time and even if he wasn't saying it out loud, his face was betraying him.

My problem with AP is that she claims she is not stupid, that she is not a fool, that she has faith in people and dignity, that she won't love ever again and so on and so forth, yet when she has to make important decisions and prove what she really is made of, she fails miserably and chooses the worst option possible. Instead of saying: Well, I might be wrong, she says: I know I am right. Know based on what? Assumptions? And this comes from someone who said she believes in everyone, yet she doesn't even let Rogelio speak.
 

I don't hate Rog either. I can't hate him in spite of the things he's done. He's angry and lashing out because AP left him after accusing him of killing her boyfriend. She never gave him a chance to defend himself before she railed against him. So now he's taken the attitude of who gives a BLEEP when deep down he does care.

I suppose I will need to keep the Pepto Bismol handy to stomach another week of this. We Rogelianas have to muddle through somehow.
 

You do make a good point, Alexandra—when someone sets themselves up as someone who is always fair, or always trying to do the right thing, we expect more from them.

Cupcake's problem is that she's very young and she can't see some of her double-standards and hypocrisy for what it is. She didn't think it was "fair" when Mersnotty assumed she was a gold-digger, she was very upset when Mersnotty wouldn't even let her try to explain. But here she does the same with Rohell!

Of course, Rohell has behaved like a douche, but some of the things she said to him were COLD.

When Rohell gives himself TIME to think, he will be more apt to do the "right" thing. His first instinct is to lash out and do some petulant, douchebaggy thing. But then Maria will talk to him and he'll rethink some of the douchebaggery. A lot of this talk of vengeance he has been swearing to is all talk and hot air. He lashes out like a petulant child, but then tries to undo it later. If he can just learn better impulse control, he'll be well on his way to being a recovering douchebag, rather than a relapsed douchebag! LOL.
 

True, Elvira. Both AP and Rogelio are impulsive, but he always listens to the persons he trusts (Maria) and calms down eventually, to think things more calmly. But in AP's case, even with Dany and Miguel who tell her that she should listen to Rogelio, she discards their advice. I just hate that "I AM right and you are all wrong" attitude. Dany is a Rogeliana at heart lol.
 

@Pirate Babe and Elvira
Give me your hands. Let's make a circle...yeah I know, we are only 3...never mind, we have to stay together. Brace yourselves, hard times are coming for us, but if we stay together, it will be easier to endure all this BS.
 

@Alexlandra. I'm clinging onto your hand for dear life.
 

Sorry for the typo. Arrgh.
 

LOL! I think we have more Rogelianas in our midst!

Sara's right, it's just a show, it's just a show! LOL.

When I first saw this (from downloadable episodes) I didn't catch all the dialog and therefore missed some of Rohell's douchebaggery. I could see the whipping, got what Sin was saying to Rohell (goading him) but missed the part about Rohell trying to plot to get the charges pushed against Miguel. So I didn't "digest" all of Rohell's douchebagginess the first time around. Made it all a little easier to take! LOL.

Now I see the full breadth and depth of his douchebagginess. Had I understood that when I first watched, it would have been reeeeaaaly hard to digest this "dark" period. But it's too late, I already am a Rogeliana!

All I can say is that we wear our beanies for a reason. You have to stick it out, it gets better. Rogelio can't keep on this path of extreme douchebaggery forever, and still have the rather fervent and rabid fan base that he has. So something has to give eventually.
 

Pirate Babe, Sara, and all the other Rogelianas, just cling to our hands and stick it out!

I recall having to cling to the hope that things got better when I was first watching. The fellow Rogelianas on YouTube helped a lot with that. LOL!
 

Like Mufasa and Scar in "Lion King"? Oh no, bad example, scratch that! Give me your hand, I'll hold you!

Don't worry about the typo haha, I wrote some myself. That's because of my multitasking habits.

@Elvira I have faith in Rogelio and I hope the more the telenovela progresses, the less will I have to defend him. Yes, this can't go on like this forever.
 

But when she saw Rog, did it not ever occur to her, that Rog was telling the truth???

Ann-NYC
 

But when she saw Rog, did it not ever occur to her, that Rog was telling the truth???

Ann-NYC
 

Not.Even.Once
 

I know most of you won't agree but I am going to defend the Cupcake here a little. The Cupcake is very naive. She was raised by a money grubbing Aunt and basically sheltered. She goes to school and gets a degree, brother gets in trouble and she takes a position as a nurse for a year so she can protect her brother and get him all the legal help he can get. Can't stand the boss, tries to make the best of it. Goes for a walk with a little boy, falls in the water and is rescued by a very handsome man, falls in love. Handsome is robbed left for dead, Cupcake reads in the paper his supposed obit and idealizes said Handsome.

Then forced to marry douchbaggery man to protect brother and keep him out of jail. Finds evidence husband "killed" said Handsome. Since Cupcake now feels betrayed hurt and angry, lashes back at douchbag (didn't like they way they hit each other).He has her followed by his henchman (Hugo and the other guy) and puts bars on her windows so she has no chance for escape. Goes riding taking Margo with her, and gets lost. Decides hey will escape and douchbag can go to h-e-double hockey sticks. Cupcake is virginal. The Cupcake beleives in first love. Now she thinks her husband is a murderer. Now we know who really tried to kill Handsome, but the Cupcake doesn't. I can understand why she wouldn't listen to douchebag. Knowing all SHE knew at this point, would you listen? I know I wouldn't. I would get the heck out too. And as far as the advances go, I totally get why she would kiss Handsome. She is releived he is alive, that he always treated her well and is in love with her. Yeah I know the douche is in love with her too, but she isn't feeling it right now. All she sees is obsessiveness and she feels hate for him right now.
 

Yeah I know she was falling for douche but now she feels betrayed. I can't call him anything thing else for now but douche cause that is what he is. I really don't know if he can be redeemed.
 

Madelaine, I agree with most of what you said. I don't fault her for rushing into Gus's arms. She was so relieved that he's alive, she had idealized him. And her husband had been a douche right before she'd left (waving the whip around).

I do have a different take on few points, however, as you might expect! LOL. First, while boss was a douche, after she married him, he started to be nicer. She likes him enough to "give him a chance" and they are now smooching and talking about adopting kids if things work out. Clearly she's not thinking he's a douche anymore.

So, when Gus's things are found in his office, I don't blame her for thinking that uh-oh, I guess he was really a douche after all. At first. For a while. But when even her dipsh*t brother is wondering why she won't even listen to the guy, and when Dani is also questioning her, and asking her to calm down, you'd think that she would try to calm down. The former douche boss had been transformed into a much nicer, non-douche husband that she was really starting to care for. She should have tried to calm down and listen to him. And I think she also had feelings for him. I mean, if he was just a douche who was being nicer, fine, but without some other feelings there, some sort of attraction there, I don't see how she would have ever agreed to try to make their marriage "real."

Anyway, I do agree with you that I can understand her rushing into Gus's arms like she does. Rohell is dead to her, in essence. She (stubbornly, I think) believes he's a would-be murderer at the moment.
 

Well said, Madelaine. It sounds like you are watching the same show that I am.

An by the way, as ill-advised as her escape attempt may have been, the last time I saw her and Margarito, they were sipping cool drinks out of coconuts at Ully's and Maca's place looking none the worse for wear.

Carlos
 

I'm wondering if Miguel was trying to convince her to give Rog the benefit of the doubt because he was getting used to his new lifestyle in the Rog household???

Ann-NYC
 

Yoinks! Spend the day watching Marimar and you miss a lot! Huy! I'm responding from my iPhone so this will be short. I'll come back later for more detail. I don't see the two cakes kissing as a betrayal. It just makes me sick cause I am a Rogeliana de hueso colorado and I hate that it just delays the reconciliation... AND THERE BETTER BE A RECONCILIATION! I have spoken! Lol
 

It sounds like you and I are on the same page, Sara! LOL.
 

I also don't like her poisoning Margarito against Rog in in essence kidnapping him (even though she did say that he should go back to the hacienda). There I said it. I hope we have a Rogeliana reconciliation soon.

I see this novela is going to divide viewers the same way that Teresa did as far as taking sides. It's all good.
 

Pirate Babe: EXACTLY like Teresa. Should make for some fun and heated discussions!

You do have to wear your beanie. With Teresa and with Rog. They are different people and with different flaws and shortcomings, though. But if we knew either of these characters in real life, it would be hard to trust them, hard to forgive them. Hence the need for the beanie! LOL.

I love both Teresa and Rog, but for different reasons. I love Teresa because she was so clever, so shameless. She wasn't evil, but she didn't have that core of "shame" that I think Rohell has. I didn't "feel" that Teresa wanted to be a better person, to be loved, to improve, the way I "feel" that Rohell wants that. (I know it's hard to believe at the moment that he is that way. But I think it's true. He's just embracing his extreme douchebag lifestyle at the moment. LOL.)
 

Wow! Just got home from work a little while ago and see 68 comments and not even a recap yet!!! I haven't watched the second half of last night's show. With all the comments (which I won't read until I've watched),the last half must have been really good.....or maybe really bad.
 

Elvira- agree with some of what you said too. Lol. I agree the douche was at a turning point and that he was changing, due to Cupcake really, but then became worse than he already was. I see the douche as a man with two faces. One is a horrendous person, obsessive, don't cross me or I'll whip you, do as I say or else, don't argue cause I know it all.

The other face can be loving, generous, kind and romantic. What bothers me is we have only really seen the horrendous side, and just a glimpse of the tender side. I just wonder if he will lose the horrendous side and never return to that. It bothers me that there is so much violence in him, aimed at women especially, like the Cupcake and Sin. The only person I really think he wouldn't hit is his Nana Maria right now.

As far as Effer goes, I really think he loves Sin. I don't think he would have stepped in front of that whip unless he did. It wasn't gratutious what he did. He was afraid for her.
 

Rogelianas:

Knowing nothing other than what we have seen so far, and discounting anything yet to happen:

Help me understand what you LIKE about the character Rogelio? Not the actor, but the character. Why do you find him appealing?

I have not seen ahead and based on what I have seen the character is a rage-filled, entitled rich guy who can be charming, when he so chooses. He is VERY violent. Would you feel the same if he wasn't in a wheelchair? Does this character know the meaning of love? What if the character was played by, say, the actor playing David?

I am a very big fan of Salinas, the actor. But this character is just dreadful and very scary.

EJ
 

@EJ. There is no question that Rog has done reprehensible things and that his anger management issues are an understatement. Having said that, what I like about Rog is that underneath that hard exterior is a wounded man both physically and emotionally.

At one time, he wasn't like this. Even Maria mentioned that. What fascinates me with him is whether he can return to the person he was. It's like Beauty and the Beast and Jane Eyre rolled into one. I love his complexity. I know this doesn't exactly answer your question but that's why I like Rog so much.
 

Carlos, thank you I thought I was in the small minority who can't stomach the douche at the moment. He will have to do ALOT for me to think he can be redeemed.

UA-you mentioned the other day about this tn reminding you of Rosemary Rogers novels. To me this tn is more graphic like Kathleen Woodiwiss novels. They were quite graphic for their time and had a lot of elements of this tn in them. The Flame and the Flower being the one I am thinking of .
 

Hang onto your hats for the next capitulo, amigos, because it's a doozy.

Somebody made an excellent point about Ana Paula reacting exactly like Mercedes did before and being just as unfair. However, there's nobody to make her see that.

As to Rogelio's tender side, I don't think he'd be afraid to show that if he weren't in the wheelchair. The wheelchair is a social liability for any man; imagine what a general liability it is for a cattle rancher.

Madaleine: Remember that Brandon raped Heather in The Flame and the Flower. That would cross the line for me and I don't think that Woodiwiss did that again.

My favorite of her books was Shanna, which should have been made into a movie with Adrian Paul as the hero.
 

My background as a Rogeliana is a little different because when I first watched, I didn't how the level of douchebaggery he was into, as I didn't catch all of the dialog.

I liked him because he made me laugh—at first he was so over the top with his foul temper and crabbiness. The violence was disturbing (very) but I wanted to see how it would pan out. I could tell that he was going to be the "hero" (like the heroes in those old politically incorrect romance novels—not the ones by Rosemary Rodgers or anyone like that, as I never read them—but the arrogant billionaire douchebags that frequent Harlequin Romances). I wanted to see how he would pan out. And then Salinas (who I had never seen before, so it's not like I was a fangirl prior to this) just won me over with his fantastic acting.

There are things he does that really disturb me (like the Hugo whipping being one) and there were times I wanted to bail, but other Rogelianas gave me hope to keep on going, because it does get better and he does get better. He's a complex character, that's for sure.

As for if another actor played the part? If he was as good as Salinas was in the acting department, then sure! I'd still be sticking around, still be a Rogeliana. There was talk of having Sebastian Rulli or Fernando Colunga replace Salinas when he got so ill. Well, that was not going to work for me because by that time Salinas "owned" the part, but had they cast Rulli or Colunga in the role, I'm sure either of these guys would have made the part their own and they would have been great. Same goes for the guy who plays David.
 

Cathyx - Thanks for the reply with regard to the name, "Cupcake,"
and here I am all along thinking
that AP's breasts have the
appearance of 2 cupcakes.
That's all I can think of since I saw the nickname. I didn't realize that she was as sweeet as a cupcake.

Thanks to Cheryl for the tutorial; fabulous idea! I won't be inclined to use it, but I have been wondering how the screen capping is done. I really appreciate the time it takes to make the visuals.


Checking in from time to time to see how Jorge is doing.

All the best to all.
 

I don't think Ana Paula has that much to redeem herself for. The only thing I can really blame her is for not planning better her escape to avoid putting Margarito at risk.

Her desire to escape? I understand.
Her accusations to Rogelio? I understand.
Her preference for Gustavo and the previews? I understand.

Her marriage to Rogelio was starting to change from a business transaction to something real but by the time she left it was obvious that she changed her mind. Since that came apart from her contract, I think changing her mind is her prerrogative. To me, she owes nothing to Rogelio.

She migh be young and naive and a little high on herself but those are normal, human, flaws. I don't think she is crossing any bigger boundaries than most characters in this telenovela.

Jarocha
 

Jorge Salinas does own this role. Before this, I hadn't really watched him in anything else except for Fuego en la Sangre. I've really become a fan of his since and have been watching whatever I can get my hands on.

If you haven't seen Labios Rojos, I recommend it. He's good in it and funny too. It also stars Silvia Navarro. Back to regular discussions LOL.
 

I see the Rogelio character as EJ does.

He is abusive and controlling. Nothing in his life justifies how abusive he is. He can be charming, but when things don't go his way, the monster comes out and he gives it full reign and terrorizing everyone. Even though he is hurt, it doesn't justify his abusive mistreatment of others. That pretty much makes it impossible for me to feel any sympathy for him.

BTW - the Beast in Beauty and the Beast wasn't violent or abusive. He was just scary-ugly.

Audrey
 

Here is why I am forgiving Rogelio.
1. He is handsome as all get out. I know that's lame, but I can't help it, I'm a sucker for dark, handsome, hispanic men who have dimples.
2. It's TV, not real life, and I know it. That really does make a difference for me because in real life I wouldn't excuse it. And because he's sexy to me.
3. He's had bad luck being paralyzed and his fiance dumping him, his new wife thinks he did something he didn't do, and I feel sorry for him and I sort of don't blame him for being so angry. Did I mention the dimples?
4.His acting is so good that he could be an assassin and I would probably still melt. Mostly this is the case because I can't not be aware that it's TV and he's so handsome.
 

@Cathyx, I completely agree. He's too handsome for words and those puppy dog eyes.........
 

cathyx, I can identify with a lot of your reasons too. Especially it being TV. I feel the same way about some of those horrifically politically incorrect romance novels I grew up reading. NO WAY would any sane woman put up with that in real life, but because it's in a novel, it's not real life, and because the reader knows that "it'll all be okay in the end," she suspends disbelief and goes with it, enjoying the ridiculous ride.

I agree about the dimples. It really does help. LOL.
 

I could think of several other actors who could have done this role; Sebastian Rulli would have been good, Fernando Colunga tambien (I see some of Manuel of Amor Real in this character) and Cesar Evora if he were ten years younger.

But I also thought of Sergio Sendel, who has a longer track record as a villain and therefore could have really kept us guessing as to which he was.

Most of us will probably live to see the next version of this one, but just as the late Eduardo Palomo will always be Juan del Diablo to me, Jorge Salinas will always be Rogelio Montero.
 

UA wrote: "Fernando Colunga tambien (I see some of Manuel of Amor Real in this character)"

YES! YES YES YES! I have just started watching Amor Real and I see it too! Definitely.

And I agree, Jorge Salinas will always be Rogelio Montero to me.
 

Pirate Babe, Elvira, UA:

Thanks for your answers.

I can't get past the whip to see anything else about him. I find the violence and his short fuse to be so off-putting I can't even imagine wanting him to be paired with anybody. I keep thinking, "Would you want this man to go out with your daughter"? Gawd, no!

So maybe what people are rooting for is for Rogelio to get his act together, to be a full person, to find happiness regardless of his disabilities?

I appreciate the difficulties inherent in being in a wheelchair at a personal level. I just can't get past the violence and imagine that that behavior would change without a) Rogelio being willing and b) Serious professional and possibly peer intervention.

:)--Logic is such a hindrance in watching TN's!

Sigh.

EJ
 

I stopped watching US soaps when they made rapists into heroes (Luke of General Hospital was the beginning of that trend). That's a crime that crosses the line at Televisa and Manuel of Amor Real got dangerously close to it.

Murder, rape, kidnapping, and abuse of a child are the crimes for which there is no redemption. Rogelio is nowhere close to that.
 

elna june wrote: "I keep thinking, "Would you want this man to go out with your daughter"? Gawd, no!"

But elna june, that's the last thing you should be thinking when reading many romance novels or watching many of these telenovelas! Logic? What's THAT?

I agree totally that if this were real life, our reactions to Rohell would be completely different. cathyx nails it on the head—she and I (and I'm sure we're not unique in this) cannot divorce ourselves from the reality that it's not real, we don't have to deal with a douchebag like that in real life, we know we wouldn't deal with someone like him in real life.

If this were real life, I would be rooting for Gus all the way. And as it is now, I completely understand why Cupcake prefers Gus. Any sane woman would.
 

Elvira,

"He's a complex character, that's for sure."

I respectfully submit that he is not complex at all. He is a self-centered, privileged, rich jerk who wallows in self-pity and uses his unfortunate accident as an excuse to make everyone who comes within his sphere miserable. Nesa dumped him because she couldn't deal with his handicap. Well boohoo. He is lucky she bailed and she was wise since I don't think his marriage to her would have made much of a difference in his behavior. Just think if everyone who experienced similar adversity behaved so.

His awful manners are bad enough. Making things worse, he is cruel and violent. He thinks people can be bought and sold like animals. Unfortunately, out of love for her brother, Ana Paula sold herself. Shame on her for that.

I'm having a ball watching this show but certainly not because I see any redeemable qualities in this lunatic.

I've no doubt that Jorge Salinas would be gratified to know how much I despise Rogelio because he is acting his heart out to make Rogelio despicable.

Carlos
 

Now Carlos, you may see this character as all-bad, but just like Teresa, perhaps the complexity may lie with how varied our responses are. The same person giving the same performance is inciting so many different reactions, interpretations, and responses for so many people. If that is not complex, I don't know what is!
 

Well, I was going to answer EJ's question, but Cathyx wrote the perfect response already. LOL

I am a huge fan of Woodiwis. We do put up with a lot of crap in novels/TN's that we would never put up with in real life. Might I submit the following:

Male animals in the wild fight each other for the right to mate with the female. So somewhere deep in our DNA/Biology might be the reason females sometimes react to a$$hole male behavior. I'll have to check my theory with my daughter who is currently studying gender/sex from an anthropological perspective. I promise I'm not trying to make excuses for crappy behavior. We are definitely more evolved, yes?

I really can't understand a backlash against AP. I really don't dislike her and I can understand everything she's done.

Rohell is violent. He's an a$$. He's beat on people, but the image that keeps popping into my head is his saving baby M-grito. I keep hearing him calling Maria "Nana" and the scenes in which he's opened up to her make me think he's redeemable.

As for my daughter dating a Rohell. The Rohell of the off-key serenade of "Solamente Una Vez"--Well, I believe one of my alternate titles *was* "God help me I'd sell my daughter to Rohell, too!" lol
 

I think if years from now they do another version of this novela, there would be a outcry like what happened when CS 09 happened. Elvira isn't kidding about the rabid fanbase for Rogelio. I don't think anyone can play this role like Jorge has.
 

And this is the third incarnation of this story, isn't it? It seems to be the one folks will remember the most. I credit Jorge Salinas with most of that.

I think Jarocha has given the endings with the other two versions. After this week, I almost want Ana Paula to make the same choice as Yulissa: To be alone!
 

Sara wrote: "I really can't understand a backlash against AP. I really don't dislike her and I can understand everything she's done."

I agree with this too. (And I'm glad you feel that way too, Sara.) I do feel somewhat annoyed with how unyielding she was to Rohell when he kept on pleading with her to listen. Okay, maybe she wouldn't listen to him. Fair enough. He waved his whip at her. Can't really blame her for not being too receptive to him after that. But when she wouldn't listen to Dani and Miguel, I thought, she's just being too hard-headed. But things turned out the way they turned out. Had she not impulsively left when she did, perhaps in a few more days she would have been more disposed to listen to Dani and Miguel, and then as a consequence of that, listened to Rohell. Finally.

I don't fault her at all with running into Gus's arms. She had built him up in her mind as the "perfect" man and she'd grieved for him. Her husband is a douche. She's running away from him. Here comes Prince Charming. Of course she's going to melt into Prince Charming's arms without a thought to the troll that she ran away from. Who wouldn't? But we know that this will backfire later on.

Also agree with you about Rohell being redeemable because of helping Margarito. And how he interacts with Maria. One of the things they seem to do in this novela is show us only the worst side of Rohell first, then later reveal the underside. (The best example is how he treated Margarito—which was pretty crappy at first—but now after all this time, we see that he became paralyzed because he was trying to save Margarito. They don't put this stuff in there for nothing. It's all to point to Rohell's being redeemed eventually.)
 

Wonderful discussion, all. I think we all agree that Salinas is doing an outstanding job with this character. Carlos is right, he is acting his heart out.

Cathyx- I have read classic novels like Jane Eyre but never really read romance novels—and that is only ONE of my many deficiencies.

Jajajajajaja...

EJ
 

UA you are right. I should have said substitue the whip for the rape and it is almost the same. Brandon kept Heather prisoner too. It has been years since I read this book and your right Kathleen Woodiwiss never did that again, because it caused such an outcry at the time. My favorite of her books is Ashes of Roses.
 

And even after all the anger with AP this week, Rohell did confess to "Nana" that sometimes his mistreatment of M-grito was because of the accident.

Ok, I thought of one thing that bothered me about Ana this week. She judged Rohell and wouldn't listen to him. Didn't the same thing happen to her own brother with the accident????
 

elna june, that you haven't read romance novels explains A LOT. You haven't built up an "immunity" to this sort of stuff! I grew up on ridiculous romance novels with douchebag heroes who become pussycats at the end. This is like mother's milk to me! LOL. I have a built-in beanie and it's a really tough, industrial strength one!
 

Enjoyed all the comments. If the previews aren't deceptive and AP does kiss Gus, I don't blame her one bit. He's the love of her life (even if only for 3 days) and she thought he was dead and now he's alive. Plus she thinks her husband in unconsummated marriage ordered a hit on him, so there's no loyalty to Rogelio.

I loved the earlier scenes when Rogelio was teaching AP to ride a horse and telling her about his past. He's sunk pretty low now. For me the test of whether Rogelio's worthy of AP's love is how he fights for her against Gus. Will he pull some tricks to damage Gus or will he fight fair and square.

Enjoyed Tia trying to talk AP into returning to the Hacienda. Tia's scared of course that Gus's wallet can entrap her with Bruno, but no way is she going to let the richest man in Chiapas get away without trying something.

I love that AP's fleeing is screwing Bruno too. He can't use AP for his plan if she doesn't come back.

AP is stubborn and foolish, but I admire that she won't let Rogelio control her. Keeping a woman sequestered is not a good way to gain her trust. And when is Rogelio going to calmy start trying to figure out who has something to gain by framing him?
 

Ditto, Elvira. I am a complete sucker for romance BS. I've got a beanie just like yours.

My heavens, Rhett Butler pretty much tossed Scarlett down the stairs and then just left her standing at the front door and his character still endures. (Of course, Scarlett was a piece o' work, too...)
 

I should have said the threat of the whip.
 

100 comments and the recap isn't up yet. I love it.
 

Now if Looneyvision would go back to the 8CST time slot, I would be in heaven!
 

Yes. I hope this 10 pm timeslot isn't permanent. I read it's still doing well in the ratings though.
 

Sorry to overpost, but I've got Univision on and I just saw the Meeting of the Cakes preview for Monday.

My dislike of the Cakes storyline has more to do with the lack of chemistry than the characters. The writers did not do a good job of "selling" this romance to me. I guess the whole "release the birds" schlock was supposed to do that, but for me their three days together were just to saccharine sweet and nauseating.
 

Just for the record, Rhett did NOT toss Scarlett down the stairs! She fell when she lunged at him in anger. Someone should have tossed her somewhere in my opinion, though.

I personally do not care if AP and Rohell end up together, but the guy has control issues and needs to dominate others. It can't all be blamed on the wheelchair.
 

Carlos- Loved the comment about the douche commercials. It's all marketing lies. And if people REALLY hated him, he'd be called a maxipad.

That said, he's a total maxipad. Bars on the windows? Does he not know how big a fire danger that is? Without a way to open it from the inside, it's a total code violation. And hitting my Hugo is unforgivable.

I'm glad to see AP and Guscake together. It had to be done at some point and better sooner than later. But I did like him with Cynthia. Toned down some of the sugar. Sweet and salt really is the best combo. (do they have kettle corn in Mexico?)

Miguel shouldn't go to jail for the accident, but he should for being so dumb. He's been gone for what, a couple days?, and he's still within finding distance for Hugo, et al. Meanwhile AP has gone far enough to be somewhere that it's raining when it's not at the hacienda. Huyendo. One more thing he sucks at.

Kelly
 

Oh God, don't get me started on that abomination that should be send through a black hole and erased from the memory of everyone who heard about it or saw it. Yes, I am speaking about CS 09. You have no idea how furious I was when I found out it was in the making and that there was no way of stopping it. And pretty much everybody felt that way, people even tried to boycott the filming, not to mention the many many petitions we signed and sent.

Nothing about it sounded even remotely interesting. Not even that, but they also thought, for some reason, that it would be great to combine it with ANOTHER telenovela in which Eduardo Palomo ALSO starred, Yo Compro Esa Mujer (he was one of the villains). It was destined to be a complete mess and the end result was even worse than I expected. They said it will be an homage and it ended up being an insult to the fans of the previous version, to Caridad Bravo Adams, to the actors and to the audience in general.

"Corazon Salvaje" from 1993 is my absolute favorite telenovela of all time. It's THE telenovela, a work of art, a real diamond which not only managed to show characters with real values and integrity, but it also managed to raise the bar so high, that no other telenovela managed to even come close to it. Juan del Diablo (Eduardo Palomo) is the masculine, rough, adventurous, passionate and loving protagonist, who, just like Rogelio in some way, uses his rudeness to hide his vulnerability. Despite his disgust towards society, he is more honorable than the aristocracy who pay their luxury with the blood of the poor. He is loyal, honest and he gives the woman the respect and the position he deserves. He puts her on a pedestal, wanting her to express her opinions, thoughts - to speak out her mind, instead of treating her like an object of desire, just like all the other men were doing. I think he's the biggest feminist I've ever seen. Eduardo Palomo IS Juan del Diablo.

CS 09 had right from the start many things against it: its name, the previous version and Eduardo Palomo's death, that were still recent in the audience's memory, the mix-up with Yo Compro Esa Mujer and the uninspired casting. But in the end, if you want to do it, do it at least right. Don't make it look like a friggin' parody.

I wrote an extended critique on CS 09 and when I say extended, I mean 70 pages lol. I am analyzing the bastard version, comparing it to CS 93, to the novels, to YCEM and to telenovelian standards in general, covering pretty much all the fields, from acting to sound mixing and editing.

I am a huuuge and I mean huuuge Eduardo Palomo fan. The day when I found out about him passing away almost 9 years ago still haunts me. Still, I hated CS 09 for what it was, not for the connection with the previous version.

Sorry, I had to take this off my chest.

Now, back on-topic:

I already said why I dislike AP so much and as you all pointed out, she saw the effects of assuming something that wasn't true, when Meche blamed her for having two boyfriends. I hope she will cry for forgiveness when she'll find out the truth.

Now on to Rogelio...Jorge Salinas is absolutely dynamite and brilliant in the role. Few actors can combine tenderness with rudeness so well, so that it's impossible for you to hate the character. It's purely his...I know he even came with suggestions to improve the character and even disagreed with some routes the character followed. He deserves every credit. Plus, I find him very masculine and handsome (*dimples!!! YAY!!). Sometimes he even looks boyish and other times he has that Daniel Craig look. I think they have the same age more or less - sometimes, they look younger, other times older, but they are delicious nevertheless.
 

As for Rogelio's appeal. Girls like bad-boys. We are helplessly drawn to those conflicted individuals who are sometimes brutes, but if we push the right buttons, they can transform into teddy bears and they can stay like that. Rogelio isn't violent all the time; he just snaps some times, but what redeems him is that he knows when to stop and in my eyes, he never takes things too far. We know the origins of his bitterness. As I said earlier, it’s not about the fact that he is in a wheelchair, but because he doesn’t feel loved BECAUSE he’s in a wheelchair. This is all Vanesa’s fault for abandoning him when he needed her the most and making him believe that he lost his shot at love forever. He is in a way like Davy Jones. He loved a goddess. He thought she betrayed him. He took his heart out and stored it in a chest. So did Rogelio and AP found that chest. Having to deal with his condition all by himself, plus making the hacienda grow wasn’t easy. Yes, he became a violent man, but somehow he always wanted to be the man he was before…he just didn’t know a woman who wanted to see his better side. He saved Margarito, which is a HUGE plus for him. A man who sacrifices his own safety to save a child can’t be bad. Once he met AP, he became more indulgent, more caring, more soft. At the lagoons, not only did he try to save her, feeling extremely frustrated because he was unable to, but he also showed his shy and vulnerable side when he kissed her and apologizes afterwards. With the right care and patience – or, simply put, with LOVE, he would no longer be the beast that everyone fears. I still remember the letter he wrote to AP, where he states that he isn’t perfect, but he’s trying. Does AP really think that a man who saved a child risking his own life would be capable of taking another man’s life? Apart from that, he genuinely cares about AP’s preferences and hobbies and tries…well, tried to please her in everything. Even now, he is simply worried about her and uses Miguel as bait to make her come back.
There is a tragic dimension surrounding him and that’s why he can get away with many things and for me, he still is far away from crossing the line. He’s not Prince Charming and he knows it, assuming his mistakes more or less obviously, that’s why he doesn’t disappoint me, because I don’t have that kind of expectancies.
Gus, on the other hand…his chemistry with AP is like the one between two corpses. There is NOTHING there, just cursi cursi cursi bleah bleah cheesy cheesy Hallmark. I don’t like those hero-type characters that save the day and I can’t buy their romance. I don’t see why she would love him. Because he saved her life? Rogelio’s effort was a lot bigger. Because she gave him a necklace? Yawn, I can make better ones. Rogelio did more things than him. Sure, he had the money too, but he WANTED to do it, despite leading us to believe that he was trying to corner her. He never insisted to her to marry him. Never. He just made the proposal, then she came to ask him to marry her. Gus and AP only took care of some patients, released the palomas, walked on the beach and she fell asleep on his shoulder. That’s it. Besides, I don’t like his acting at all. Every time he speaks it’s as if he was losing his breath, suffering from asthma.
 

Sorry, those posts were really long, but this is what happens when people touch subjects of great interest to me. I apologize :(
 

Kelly, you really made me smile. Even though I'm a physician and am familiar with these things, talk about such intimate lady stuff still makes me twitchy.

Carlos
 

" Bars on the windows? Does he not know how big a fire danger that is? Without a way to open it from the inside, it's a total code violation."

Mexican houses usually have bars on the windows (and many in their doors too), I don't think we can blame Rogelio for that.

It's not really just a safety measure, like people believe, the tradition comes from the colonial era and has been kept for security against robbery. Therefore, a house with the style of Rogelio's has a bigger reason for the bars.

Jarocha
 

Jarocha- I have bars on my apartment windows and I only wish it were as nice as that hacienda. but here they are required to have a latch on the inside of the window so if there is a fire and you need to escape out the window, the bars can swing open and let you leave. Otherwise they are great for security since I can leave my windows open all summer long without worry. Until someone tries to break in and I find out they don't really work. In the meantime, mental security.

Carlos- Sorry dude. (happy face).

Kelly
 

Alexandra:

My favorite novela is Cañaveral de Pasiones. I was 11 when I watched it, so my youth had alot to do with how impressed I was, but even rewacthing it now I can still see how well made it was.

Abismo de Pasión, the remake that is currently airing in Televisa's Canal de las Estrellas in México, comes nowhere close to what Cañaveral was but at least it's well done, I think I would have made other choices in casting and music but the story is still being respected and the producer is taking things seriously and you can see she is trying to do a good job.

CS09 was pretty much a parody. Not only was Mejía unable to recreate the quality of the 93 version, he didn't even try. He basically took a well loved classic story and did all he could to make it a cartoon. Then he did the same to Triunfo del Amor (though I'm not a fan of El Privilegio de Amar but I know how well loved it was).

Now he is going to do the same to another one of my favorites. Mejía is like an homage to mediocrity.

Jarocha
 

@Jarocha

I didn't have the chance to see CdP, but Abismo de Pasion looks awful, despite of some of the names involved. Rene Casados seems to be overacting as usual, Boyer is so-and-so, Zepeda - uhmm, I don't see his appeal. I hate his voice and in the looks department, for some reason, I think he looks a bit strange without a beard. I really like Mark Tacher, but he could use a haircut lol. He was really great in La Hija del Mariachi. But at least, yes, the telenovela is trying.

With CS09 I went through different stages. First one was anger and disgust by what I was seeing, then I was just laughing at it and eventually, it became so bad that it wasn't even laughable anymore. I still can't understand why do they allow him to still work. I liked El Privilegio de Amar when I first saw it, but it didn't age that well. I had a problem with the male protagonist, who was a playboy douche, although the cast was magnificent. Carla Estrada is always impeccable, even if I sometimes have problems with her protagonists. She was the one who basically turned Fernando Colunga into a star and made him show his acting chops. And yet Carla Estrada isn't working on anything, while Mejia keeps receiving the green light.

I thought his remake of Cuna de Lobos has been canceled, but I heard that they will move forward to it. Ugh. I loved Cuna de Lobos, Catalina Creel was an amazing villain. Can't believe that Rebecca Jones, who starred in that version, is now doing Maria Rubio's role in Mejia's version. He should be banned from Televisa, he produces nothing but junk.
 

By the way, I saw an interview with Claudia Ramírez, who played Yulissa in Te Sigo Amando, and they asked her what she thought about remakes and if she thought young people were taking the place of the older generations.

She said that she was glad that new generations were given a chance with remakes and said that everybody had their place in the business, she thought that as you grow older you start looking for other types of roles (so funny, given Televisa's tendency to cast actors 15 years older than their characters). She was aware of the new version of TSA.

I loved Yulissa. And I love Claudia Ramírez, she left Televisa after TSA and got to play pretty good roles afterwards, taking a break when needed for her family, except she lost all the publicity and fame she would have kept had she stayed there.

Jarocha
 

Alexandra:

Unfortunately, Mejía is well placed and has friends in high places.

I haven't seen very little of Abismo since Boyer and Zepeda started. I might watch a bit tommorrow during the TVyNovela awards commercials. I liked the few episodes I saw with the backstory, I really liked Ludwika Paleta and I liked the direction, it had some nice shots and the scenary where they are placing the story is beautiful. It has a slow pacing but I always prefer it that way (but I know many here don't). René Casados always overacts lol, that's true. And I feel Sabine Moussier plays the same role in every telenovela, I wish Nailea Norvind had played the role instead, she is great in her small part. I also liked Blanca Guerra, Raquel Olmedo, Erik del Castillo and Eugenia Cauduro. Alejandro Camacho was overacting a little but I think he fits the role and the age difference with Ludwika was what bothered me more. I think Zepeda is too old for the role but Boyer is the right age and type. Altair Jarabo looks beautiful and Livia Brito fits her role well, Tacher too.

Jarocha
 

Sorry, I meant to say I have seen little of Abismo since Boyer and Zepeda appeared.

Jarocha
 

elna june wrote a while ago: "So maybe what people are rooting for is for Rogelio to get his act together, to be a full person, to find happiness regardless of his disabilities?"

I forgot the address this earlier. YES, YES, YES, that is a huge part of it for me. I am sucker for a redemption story. Obviously I'm not the only one. I love stories where the hopeless have hope. Especially someone with so much crap in his life—from his own doing, and from circumstances.

Jorge Salinas is the perfect guy to pull this off.

But, hey, it's a telenovela. That means ridiculous stuff that will make us tighten our beanies. I don't want to get too carried away with praise. This story has some areas that really make me want to scream with annoyance and frustration too. But so do all telenovelas. That's why they exist! LOL.
 

Slightly OT question for Mexican residents: Does Televisa have a channel that shows classic novelas?

If not, now may be the time to lobby for one so that there will be less of a perceived need for remakes. The constant remaking of films annoys me to no end: Do not ever read the IMDB message board for The Godfather unless your blood pressure is dangerously low. Younger people who don't understand what makes the film great scream that it's too slow.

I have never seen the three previous versions of CS, but I have no doubt that the 1993 version is the classic and the standard by which the others should be judged.
The 2009 version is an example of what happens when bad producers handle great material. Had Carla Estrada produced it we would have had a much better series (although the only cast member I had issues with was Aracely Arambula).

Back on topic: I agree with the assessment of insufficient chemistry between the Cupcake and Gustavo. Chalk this up to her inexperience with men and the fact that she may be the type who needs someone more complex. He might also need someone more needy than she is. A bigger emotional rescue. But my gut tells me that it won't work out between him and Lady Chatterley either.
 

UA: Yes, the channel is called TLnovelas. It's on cable.

They showed CS 93 again not long ago.

Jarocha
 

Oh Jardinera this is wonderful, and full of snark like I thought it would be. Loved your title and also Miss Mercy! lol. And all the names for the Guscake. Oh, I really hate that whip the douche keeps holding. Unless he gives that whip up, I am not calling him Rohell. Looks like Mikey is in a world of hurt. He better pray the Cupcake comes back.

Loved the Slop and Plop title lol.

I don't really think Sin can give up the Effer. She is too "connected" to him shall we say? lol.

I hope Maria can talk some sense into the douche, before he does something he really regrets. He is just exchanging one prisoner for another. As much as I think Mikey is stupid, he shouldn't go to jail on trumped up charges.

I wonder why Vainy and Davey are so chummy all of a sudden? Maybe they will hook up at some point.
 

Jardinera:

You captured every moment of this creepy capitulo. Thank you for doing such a thorough job.

Is there anyone in the hacienda who will be WITHOUT a fuete scar at the end of this TN? (Nice vocabulary lesson.)

Jardinera, I am so glad you captured this next section. It bothered me the first time through and I just got upset all over again.

"...she explains (Uni PSA #????) that a handicapped person like Rog can get very upset, even harsh, when the person they depend upon isn’t around."

So is this Uni's apologia for Rogelio's out-of-control violence?

Nonsense. The writers could REASONABLY give him a panic attack or the onset of anxiety, irritability and depression but don't try to excuse the whip behavior by saying he felt lost and sad without his nursie and therefore hit anyone who pushed him.

Dear Elvira, I know you will advise me that "reason" doesn't enter into it. This is where I will not/cannot suspend disbelief, however. The false attribution of psychological states that enable if not justify violent behavior is a bridge too far for me.

I am afraid reading the excellent recap made me upset all over again.

Arghh.

EJ
 

Good stuff, Jardinera.

Vainessa and Lord ShadyDeal are two of a kind. Both selfish, out only for themselves and uncaring about others so they would absolutely deserve each other. Imagine how astounded either would be to be duped or dumped by the other!

Miguel needs to go to a special needs school; how did he ever survive puberty? Maybe they will have those classes in la carcel?

Since Consuelo was only at querer and not yet at amar she'll get over Efrain.

Rogelio will really be upset about the horse. No more riding for the Cupcake when she is finally dragged back by her hair.

Sinthia lost quite a few IQ points when she provoked her brother. I am wondering what Rogelio will make of Efrain's defense of her.
 

Thank you for this wonderful part 2 Jardinera. It was wonderful. My favorite line was Must. See. TV.
Viewerville is making reservations already. lol.

The douche has become unbearable to me. I am with EJ here, I cannot suspend my disbielf. I know this is just a story, but for goodness sake!!!! The violence in this character scares the crap out of me. He needs some serious help. I know Vainy goaded him, which probably made it worse when Sin spoke her mind, but come on. His own sister. I really can't take that damned whip. Like I said before Effer was trying to protect her, and I'm with you UA, I wonder what the douche will make of that?

And thank you again Jardinera for lightening up this horrible dark episode.
 

We are a long way from the end so I would be very shocked if Lord Rogelio found out about Lady Chatterley's midnight activities at this stage of the tale. According to cliche he should be the last to know.

Which would be very entertaining, indeed.

As I polished up tomorrow's recap I made an experimental batch of Cheddar Bay Biscuits and I think they worked out this time. Something good had to happen this weekend.
 

Jardinera your recap was very good, thank you for your hard work.

I can't wait for:
Rohell to find out Bruno's involvement in Gus's assault and that he planted Gus's things for AP to find.
AP to find out that Tia Rosy asked Bruno to get rid of Gus.
Sin to find out Gus loves AP.
Vainessa to find out AP is her sister.
Sin and Mersnotty to realize Gus's girlfriend and Rohell's wife are the same person.
Maria finding out who Effer services.
Rohell finding out Sin and Effer's hanky panky.

Don't so much care about:
AP seeing Gus.
AP finding out who her real dad is.
AP finding out Vainessa is her sister.
Dave's resort getting built with or without environmentally sound methods.
Finding out who Margarito's real father is.
Mersnotty finding out that AP is a nice girl after all.

How many more episodes, anyway?
 

add to my I can't wait list:
what a cheddar bay biscuit tastes like.
add to my don't care list:
How Miguel will survive adulthood.
 

I think Maria suspects something about Lady Chatterley and the stablehand already. She would have to know Sinthia and Rogelio better than anyone else in the world.

I think all the characters need shrinks.

Just like at Red Lobster:

Cheddar Bay Biscuit Recipe

2 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
1 tablespoon + ½ tsp baking powder
1/4 teaspoon salt
3/4 teaspoon ground cayenne pepper or Cajun seasoning
1 teaspoon garlic powder
1/2 cup butter, softened
1 1/4 cups grated cheddar cheese
1 tsp parsley
1/2 cup sour cream
1 1/4 cups milk

Note: If using a baking mix, replace first 5 ingredients with 2 1/2 cups baking mix.

Place first 5 ingredients (or 2 1/2 cups baking mix) in a large bowl. Add cayenne pepper and garlic powder. Work in the butter with a pastry cutter. Stir in cheese then add sour cream and milk. Scoop biscuit dough out by big spoonfuls and place in a greased 9 x 13 casserole pan. (Or other type of pan with an edge to it–if you use a flat baking sheet, butter sauce will spill down into your oven. Ask me how I know that……)

Topping
3 tablespoons butter, melted
1 teaspoon garlic powder
dash of salt

Melt butter. Stir in garlic powder, parsley, and a dash of salt.

Bake at 450 degrees for 25 minutes.* At the 28-minute mark brush tops of biscuits with melted butter topping.

*Your baking time may vary! I make 20 biscuits from this recipe. If you make your biscuits smaller or larger, it will change your baking time.

They can be frozen and reheated, but are better freshly made.
 

Thanks UA for the biscuit recipe!
And I think you are right about Maria figuring it out about Effer and Sin, she's no fool, and she looked like she had a glimmer a few weeks ago about it.
 

This recap didn't disappoint Jardinera. With your descriptive writing, I could picture all the scenes again in my mind and that final scene. Yikes. Seems you have been getting the doozy episodes so far. Thanks for being a trooper in recapping this awful episode.
 

Sorry this one's sooooo long but I was captured by the conversations this time. This must be the longest single episodio recap I've ever written!
 

No worries, Jardinera! There was a lot that happened and so many of the conversations were important. Very few FF moments on Friday.
 

"Don't so much care about:
AP seeing Gus." Me neither. Actually, I don't care about the AP/Gus pairing at all. They do nothing for me and the chemistry is bland. Give me fiery Rog any day LOL.
 

Interesting choice of word; both Jorge Salinas and Jose Ron are Leos. So is the actor who plays Hugo.
 

I think an issue I am having with the show is there is very little "light" stuff. In most of the TNs I've seen there has been a lighter/comical relief for when things got to harsh. I'm not saying it's always well done, but at least there is some respite. Do we have that here? Come to think of it, didn't we mention the lack of it in LFDD as well?
 

I personally prefer a novela to be this way rather than having comic relief being mandatory in every episode. Had I produced FELS I would have had it be a straight-up melodrama -- with a definite time period -- with the occasional note of gallows humor. Comic relief in every episode feels forced to me.

This did have a few amusing moments, like Tia MentiRosa mistaking Efrain for a landowner at the wedding only to learn that he works for Rogelio. And Maria hitting Efrain with his own hat a few episodes ago.
 

Sara, that is so true. There's no lighthearted story line, it is an hour of constant agitation. Perhaps this is the new trend.
 

UA-I'm not sure that I mean comic relief every episode. That does get wearisome, but if we could have maybe a pinch more. Right now the closest we get to comic relief is product placement.

Having just finished a marathon session of Marimar, I'm kind of wishing the horses or cows had some dialogue a la Pulgoso. lol
 

Jardinera: Wonderful recap! You got an intense episode! Loved the Rancho del Fuete! Perfect name.

And I must say I did like this episode, I prefer an episode that makes me go "whaaa..." than one that takes me to sleep.

I won't lie, I loved that Efraín came to Cinthia's defense. I think he was worried about Rogelio staying mad and taking it out on Cinthia or him so that's why he allowed the beatings to go on and on.

"Had I produced FELS I would have had it be a straight-up melodrama -- with a definite time period -- with the occasional note of gallows humor"

This is the perfect description of the original version, Las Aguas Mansas. A fantastic telenovela set in Colombia in the 1940's.

Sara: Where did you watch Marimar? Ever since the other day that I posted the title sequence I've been looking through some scenes. Pulgoso's thoughts were funny. By the way, his "Pa' su mecha Marimah..." is slang from Veracruz, not Guerrero (where the story is set), Televisa always gets those accents confused.


Jarocha
 

@Jarocha- I have the DVD. I did not see the original run so I don't know how butchered the story was. For someone who had not seen it in its entirety I guess the editing was ok. That is it I knew it was edited but I didn't feel lost. The biggest problem I had with the DVD (and the Maria Merecedes DVD) was the music. It was obvious it wasn't the original score and they just added crappy music to the DVD. I did love Pulgoso... Incorrect accent or not. Lol. Corazon seemed very politically incorrect to me. Could you give me some more insight?
 

I tried watching Marimar when it aired here but I couldn't stand Thalia. The stupid little-girl voice and her whole plastic persona was enough to make me gag. Three episodes and I was out of there.

The abridged DVDs almost never have the original theme song or even songs used in the series. CS 1993 did because it was music commissioned specifically for the series from Jorge Avendano. Abrazame Muy Fuerte depended so much on the hit title song that the DVD just sounds ridiculous (in addition to being insanely short). It also left out songs done by Pablo Montero, so this was all about the video rights to the music. These are two of the things that really annoys me about the DVDs.
 

As bad as the show was I am pleased to note that the incidental music in TdA was the same on the DVD.
 

That had excellent incidental music, as did Mariana de la Noche (which you have to see if you love Jorge Salinas).

Music is such an integral part of any of these series, which is why I always comment on it.
 

Jardinera and posters -- thanks for a great recap and an interesting discussion.

I don't think these kinds of violent- male-tamed-by-love stories translate well into our current era when we are generally smarter about the roots of anger in violent people. I'm fascinated more by how this will be resolved than caught up in the characters themselves at this point.

I remember in CdeP, one of my earliest novelas and all-time favorites (and therefore won't watch remake), how amazed I was when the villainous Josefina went up to the altar to beg forgiveness of the characters played by Juan Soler and Daniela Castro. I was flabbergasted and amazed: how wonderful that this nasty woman could be saved and in his holy space. I later learned that one of the great guessing-games of novelas is who makes it to redeemable and how. I've yet to see a novela where someone as damaged as Rogelio makes it out to the other end -- a hero.

Just an observation. Vamos a ver.
 

Sara: Do you mean insight on the original? or on the remake? The story was about a man dedicated to commercial trade with his boat that had been raised without a father and had a terrible temper, he falls inlove with a woman of high class that although shares his feelings accepts to marry the man her sister loves to mantain her wealthy status because she believes him to be death/in jail (depending on the version). He comes back for her wealthy the day she gets married and that leads to a chain of events where he ends up marrying the good sister and falling in love with her. The 93 version was the best overall but all the earlier versions were pretty good as well. The 2009 was just bad. Here's the music video of the 93 version. Even though it is almost 20 years old, don't the production values look MUCH better than the 2009 version?

For incidental music I have the one from Cañaveral de Pasiones (the one at the minute 9:23 reminds me of Cinema Paradiso, although my favorite has always been the music from the opening sequence). La Dueña, Corazón Salvaje, Alondra, Alguna Vez Tendremos Alas, La Otra, Cadenas de Amargura and Desencuentro have some of the incidental music I most remember.

Jarocha
 

elna june wrote: "Dear Elvira, I know you will advise me that "reason" doesn't enter into it. This is where I will not/cannot suspend disbelief, however. The false attribution of psychological states that enable if not justify violent behavior is a bridge too far for me."

I missed the part in the episode where Mersnotty says that handicapped people can sometimes get agitated, etc. Yeah, if they want to pass that off as an "excuse" for Rog's douchebaggery, that is bizarre. I thought we all here had unanimously agreed that Rog uses the whip because he's a violent douchebag! LOL. No, that excuse wouldn't pass the smell test for me either.

It's not a matter of wanting to excuse it as it's happening. Where we may have to suspend our disbelief and tighten our beanies is when we see how he can overcome it and be redeemed in the end. In real life it would probably take more therapy and time. We'll see how he transforms from a relapsed douchebag to a recovering douchebag and how easy or difficult that process is, and we'll adjust our beanies as necessary.

Jardinera, GREAT recap, difficult episode to do! I don't envy you handling this miserable episode, but you did a wonderful job.
 

Alejandra García and Pablo Lyle just won female and male revelation respectively for UFCS.

Livia Brito won best young actress for TDA.

Delia Casanova won best older actress for La Fuerza del Destino. They cut her mid sentence. Harsh.

César Évora just won best older actor for TDA. Wow, more awards than I anticipated for TDA.

Jarocha
 

Bad productions can happen to good actors.
 

Jorge Salinas is totally loving this crazy psychedelic norteño band that is performing.

María Zarattini just won best script for LFDD.

Jarocha
 

Te Dejaré de Amar sounds great when sang by a woman, between this performance and Amorcito Corazón's there's lots of gratuitous shots of Jorge Salinas and Elizabeth Álvarez. Aw, Arath de la Torre is singing along to Un Día de Suerte.

Marisol del Olmo won best supporting actress for Esperanza del Corazón.

Ferdinando Valencia looks hot. And I don't usually fancy him.

José Ron won best supporting actor for LQNPA. He made the fangirls scream.

Jarocha
 

UFCS got best song.

Que the hell! There's a new award for the Most Watched Telenovela and TDA just won BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, who are they trying to kid? The ratings are out there.

Jarocha
 

Thanks for the updates, Jarocha!

The heck with the Oscars, I want to know who wins the TV y novelas awards! LOL. (And it BETTER be Sr. Salinas!)
 

There's something that's been bothering me in this episode—I'm not sure if it's a blooper or what. In the scene where Rohell snaps his whip at Miguel and does his freak-out bug-eyed thing, I noticed that Miguel had a mark on his cheek at the beginning of the scene (as soon as Rohell woke him up). I at first thought that the mark was from Rohell hitting him, but it can't be, because it was there before Rohell smacked him with the whip. Did anyone else see this?
 

Daniela Romo wins best villain female for TDA.

Juan Ferrara won best villain male for LFDD.


Sandra Echeverría won best actress for LFDD.

Jorge Salinas won best actor for LQNPA!

Best Telenovela: La Fuerza del Destino.

Jarocha
 

HE WON! HE WON!!! YAY!!!! (I actually squawked out loud when I read that. Which shows you how pathetic I am. LOL.)

And I'm glad about Daniela Romo. TdA was pretty bad, but she was awesome, I thought. It's the first thing I'd seen her in, and she was one of my favorites in the show.

Thank you Jarocha, for keeping us updated!
 

Felicidades to Jorge Salinas. He's nothing short of mesmerizing.

Daniela Romo was excellently over the top in TdA and very deserving.
 

The LQNPA fangirls went crazy.

I was rooting for Laisha Wilkins but I knew Romo's career would put her as the favorite among the judges.

Jarocha
 

I'm so glad that Jorge won. He deserved it. Congratulations to him.
 

Jardinera, thanks for a great recap and the vocab. My favorite snark: "Guess Rog has forgotten how to count to 10."

Jarocha, thanks for the news. Terrific for Jorge Salinas -- and Jose Ron too.
 

It was a great night for Jorge, you could tell he was having so much fun.

Jarocha
 

The whole awards were weird this year. Besides the new Most Watched Telenovela award that went to one of the least watched telenovelas of the 9 pm timeslot ever, they had a new award for the Most Popular in Social Networks Star.

As if that award wasn't crazy enough, they gave it to Maité Perroni and everybody knows the most popular person on twitter in México is Anahí. Maité is never on the list of the stars with the biggest numbers of followers like Thalía or Paulina Rubio and Anahí actually tops them.

It's like they felt the need to invent awards just so that TDA would have more wins. The funny thing is that, since those can be chosen with actual numbers instead of people's opinions, they cheated just to give them the awards.

Jarocha
 

Jardinera, thank you for the elegantly elucidated explication of the hellish events at the hacienda.

Wonderful discussions from all points of view. I must admit my Rogeliana tendencies; the puppy dog eyes and hopes for redemption win out over the anger and douchebaggery. After all, Nana Maria still loves him, doesn't she? I'll trust Ana Martin's instincts every time.

Agree with UA that Jorge was just fabulous in Mariana de la Noche, where he was the young engineer.
La Paloma
 

You girls are so talented, too bad you get to recap such sucky episodes. Even if I loathed these episodes, reading the recaps is a delight. If I will be doing this week's recap, I am afraid for what will be in stores for me. It might actually be the episode I was too disgusted to see in its entirely lol.

@Sara Someone called the Corazon Salvaje expert? I wrote an extensive essay on my version too, so I will try to remember some of the most important things. I say 'remember', because I am dead tired right now. The novel(s) written by Caridad Bravo are set in Martinique, but the writer of the telenovela wanted it to give it a more Mexican feel, so she changed the setting and the French surnames of the characters. It is set in the beginning of the XX century and those who worked on the telenovela did an extensive research to get everything right in terms of wardrobe, decorations, music and vocabulary. Because it's a fictional story, they avoided giving president names and such. However, the telenovela focuses more on the woman's position in society. She wasn't allowed to complain, to raise her voice, to choose, to decide. She was basically an accessory to the men and her place was in the kitchen. Women could have called themselves lucky finding any husband - young or old. But Juan del Diablo breaks these customs and gives the woman the place she deserves in the society, so much that Monica (the protagonist), eventually becomes so brave that she lives on her own and not only that, but she also starts working, which was something unimaginable at that time, moreover because she was a countess. The novels emphasize more on the way the aristocrats treated the poor, turning them into slaves. Their golden coins were covered in the workers' blood. This aspect of the novel is also treated to a great extend in the 1993 telenovela.


Juan and his men were "gente del pueblo", simple, yet honorable, loyal and hardworking, while the aristocracy covered its sins under expensive clothing. In the telenovela the bureaucratic machine is also criticized and even Don Noel (who is Juan's mentor and the pueblo's lawyer in this version) mentions at some point that in the entire Mexico you can feel an air of restlessness and the people are tired. We witness the abuses of the high society that claimed to have high values. In some way, Juan del Diablo was some kind of a Robin Hood. He had noble origins, but he grew up like a bastard son, rebelling himself against the society and refusing to fit into their standards. If he changes his outlooks afterwards, it's not because he is legally recognized as Andres' (Renato's) brother, but because he wants Monica to be proud of him. There are many many differences between the two telenovelas and the book, but overall, my version follows the book more closely; it's just that because of the few episodes and overall tone of the story, they had to remove the honeymoon on the boat. My telenovela improves all the characters from the book. There, Juan is more violent, more sarcastic, more bitter and more stubborn and Monica is more of a coward, while in the telenovela, Juan treats her with delicacy and tenderness and impulses her to open herself and speak up her mind.


In the book, you waited an eternity for them to confess their love, because each of them was certain that the other one was in love with someone else, while in the telenovela, they basically convince each other to open up and speak about their feelings. In the 2009 version, they completely changed the entire family tree of all the characters and making the sisters twins was a huge mistake, because both in the novel and in the previous telenovela, Aimee used to teasing her sister that she was more beautiful and desirable. Up to the point that Aracely gets married with Christian, almost everything is taken out of Yo Compro Esa Mujer.
 

There are some situations similar to those in the book, but when the dialogues weren't copied word by word from the novel, the telenovela failed miserably. Yeah, it failed all the time, but at least there were times when the dialogue was ok; however, that wasn't the telenovela writer's merit. Not to mention that Juan del Diablo never was a bipolar, neanderthal Tarzan wearing an octopus on his head. And he never ever wasn't even remotely interested in Aimee after he found out of her betrayal, sticking with his principles and dignity instead.

I could go on and on with this forever. The 1993 telenovela captures the book's essence without copying everything just like it was written there. It brings new and inventive elements, turning Juan del Diablo into the ideal feminist that we all love and making Monica a brave and admirable woman, capable of fighting against everyone to defend what she loves. Despite the differences, you can recognize the characters you saw on the screen with those you read about in the book. The 2009 version tried to be everything and it ended up being BEEP.
 

Where to begin with all the back and forth?  Well, of course I'm grateful to Jardinera for the detailed recap. It cleared up some details I didn't quite get.   

Like others, I loved One Stop Slop 'n Plop, Hacienda del Fuete as well as Fake Out! 

Cathyx, "OK, this time I won't think you are making coffee".  So funny.

Why are the One Stop Slop 'n Plop family still around?  I thought they had won a big contest and were leaving.  Or was it just a year's supply of Tostitos?

Douchebag: From Merriam-Webster's dictionary, "an unattractive or offensive person"; from Oxford's dictionary, "loathsome or contemptible person". Both had a picture of Rohell next to their definitions.

Cathyx, RE: your first 2 reasons--
"1. He is handsome as all get out. I know that's lame, but I can't help it, I'm a sucker for dark, handsome, hispanic men who have dimples.
2. It's TV, not real life, and I know it. That really does make a difference for me because in real life I wouldn't excuse it. And because he's sexy to me."
These are the only reasons that ring true to me as well for defending Rohell. And tho I feel that sex appeal too, it really IS lame that we would excuse that behavior.  LOL!

Um, lame-- no pun intended?!?

Alexandra, "I don't take his threats seriously, he just tries to force her hand. And those whips reminded me of the way he hit Bruno, more or less for the same reason, because he was genuinely concerned for her safety."
AND
 "I am gobsmacked by how easily she goes from one man to the other, like a heartless BEEP! Hello? Some remorse, please? Doubts, maybe?.......She seems to entertain herself, while Rogelio is at home, worried and crying for her safety."
The first time I read this I thought you were jokingly defending Rohell. I really mean it, I thought you were pulling our collective leg. I realize now you weren't. Egads, tho I don't agree, I really gotta admire a girl with unflinching conviction. 

Next time Hugo is called away from his AP guard duties (if there is a next time), Cupcake needs to ask to go to the kitchen first so she can pack a picnic basket. 

I hope Rio's new owner is a nice man who treats his horsies well.  
 

Congratulations to Jorge Salinas. He deserved to win.
 

Wanted to add I loved Jorge thanking the Rogelianas in his acceptance speech. They sure did go wild at that LOL. This fanbase loves Rogelio and I mean they love him fiercely.
 

Oh no, Barbara. When it comes to defending Rogelio, I am never joking. It's simply the vision I have of the character. Everybody can see him in a different light and perceive him differently and I defend him, because I think he deserves it. You might or might not agree with my views and that's fine. As the great Brian once said: We are all individual. Unfortunately, I have my tics too; I never stop defending someone I love. I just don't see him that bad as everyone else does. I hope he'll get soon the chance to show you all what a good guy he is lol.

As for crossing the line, everybody might set that line at a further or nearer distance. Yes, Rogelio is impulsive and violent, but the fact that I can justify him, even if not excuse him all the time, makes it easier for me to consider him redeemable. As a matter of fact, I am not sure if 'redeemable' is the right word, since he didn't fall in some pitfall of jerkiness. Maybe it's just me, but I understand him.

Tonight was a great night, two of my favorite actors of the year won. Jorge Salinas at the TvyNovelas and Jean Dujardin at the Oscars yeaah!
 

I am expecting someone to upload Jorge's acceptance speech on YouTube! This I gotta see! He thanks the Rogelianas? How cool is that!

I love that the fanbase is so fervent. They are a blast!
 

Congrats to Jorge for his win! :) It was well deserved.

CS93: Actually I hate the fact that the Luzbel part was left out of this (otherwise great) show. That's why I cannot sympathize with the way Juan and Mónica fall in love with each other and that's why the 1968 movie with Angélica María and Julio Alemán is my favourite. It's has quality (like the 1993 show) AND the love story is faithful to the book.

The 2009 version is a funny guilty pleasure, nothing more, nothing less. Yo compro esa mujer is The Telenovela for me, and I love it unconditionally for twenty years (just as much as others love CS93), and instead of being angry at the changes and the stupidity I enjoyed watching the crazy plot development and the old but likeable actors. :)
 

Elvira:

Jorge Salinas gana el premio como Mejor Actor
 

Aribeth, thank you for the link! I just had found it myself! SQUEEEE! I squeeed along with the fangirls in the audience when he mentioned "us" (the Rogelianas)! LOL. I am so far gone! But I think it's great that he won and he looks very healthy and fit there, which is wonderful to see.
 

@Aribeth

I am on the other page with CS93. I thought it was very brave and also very wise to leave the Luzbel part out for several reasons. The first reason was because there was no way to recreate such a long honeymoon in such a short time. CS had 80 episodes and initially, it was supposed to be even shorter than that, but because of its success, they decided to introduce the plot with Marcelo Romero Vargas. I don't think you could have made a 90% faithful adaptation of Caridad Bravo Adams' novel in only 80 episodes and still make it look believable and not rushed. Besides, there are some telenovela conventions which were required and of course the novel had to be adapted to the medium. You can't simply cut a book and paste it on the screen. At that time, CS93 not only was one of the first telenovelas to use modern cinematographic techniques, but it also showed sensuality and incredible love scenes made with very good taste. That chemistry between the leads is unmatchable.

A Juan del Diablo as rough as the one from the book would have had less appeal to the audiences, although you do find many of his traits in Eduardo Palomo's Juan.

I found it perfectly believable how the two fall in love. When the hearts are broken, the "culpables" for that are left in the past. Between Juan and Monica there was always a sexual tension, even when she was dressed like a nun, since Juan was the first man who complimented her in his devilish way and who saw her as a woman. I believed the way they constructed the romance, because they possessed enough qualities to make audiences believe that they have reasons to fall in love with each other and moreover, between Monica and Andres there was never such a strong connection as in the book, when they grow up together. In the book, she realizes quite quickly though that he fancies her sister, so she doesn't get her hopes up to become more than just friends. Here, they barely knew each other - she was in love with an illusion, so by finding a man like Juan del Diablo, it's not hard to see why she would fall for him.

And in his case, Aimee was dead for him the moment he found out she married someone else. Even when he did tell her that he wanted to escape with her, it was merely a way to test her. As a matter of fact, he would have never seen her like before and if she indeed would have succumbed, Juan would have treated her with coldness. He sees in Monica a courageous and "fighty" woman with virtues, who isn't afraid to take care of those inferior to her, who defends what she loves and who tries to take the blame and sacrifice herself in the name of love. He is envy of the fact that his brother has a woman who loves him so much (Monica), while he can't get the same kind of love where the feelings are put above the social status. Monica treats everyone equally and doesn't care about these matters. That's why they fall in love, because they see in each other these qualities. She starts to feel something for him the moment he gives her the "ciego, sordo, imbecil" line and I believe that he is torn between admiration and love when she is taking care of Azucena.
 

While CS93 doesn't copy scene by scene from the book, it has several scenes reminiscent of those which appear in the book. For example, at the beginning in the telenovela, when Monica finds out that Aimee will marry Andres and she gets severe fever reminded me of her wedding day when she suffers more or less of the same. In the book, her illness was more due to her exposure to the workers who were suffering from the disease. The characters are as integer as they are on the pages and the essence is kept. Juan del Diablo from the telenovela is an improved version of the JDD from the book, yet his basic traits are still kept intact. For me, being more faithful doesn't mean to copy and paste, but to recreate situations and to make you feel that you are watching an homage to the book, with characters that remind you of what you read.

Caridad Bravo Adams' Juan del Diablo NEVER ONCE got drunk like a swine or destroyed all the furniture. For him, dignity came always first.
 

What a fabulous recap!! I wasn't able to watch last Friday's episode, but this detailed and very good re-telling let me visualize the whole story.

Thank you. Thank you.
 

For me the essence of CBA's book is this: a man and a woman, both extremely hurt by the love quadrangle of doom, are forced to get married. They don't want each other, they don't want to live together, but they learn to respect and love each other. Beauty and the Beast, The Trap, La que no podía amar.

The book isn't perfect, and I like the second part of CS93 more than the what-happened-after-the-Luzbel scenes in the book, but in my opinion Luzbel is the most important element of the story. It represents isolation, healing, freedom, adventure, emotional bonding and the promise of a new life.

So, this is what I was expecting from CS93 when I started to watch the show. Instead I got a storyline with two young people who actually wanted to get married. And not only the wanted to be together, but to top it all Juan and Mónica fell in love with each other before the wedding in such a subtle way that it was almost unnoticeable.

I'm not a senseless blind viewer who can't detect subtlety and hints, but they're too introverted (especially Mónica) thanks to the scriptwriter. I rewatched the first part of the show many times, I read many, many analysises written by CS93 fans and I see the milestones of their journey, I sense that they like and curious about each other but I still can't feel their legendary love. There're others who had the same problem with the story so I know it's not just me.

So I had to accept that this version isn't my cup of tea. It's beautiful, I like to watch it because technically it's great, the actors are good, I love Azucena, Don Noel, Mariana and Marcelo, and once I get over the "falling in love" part I can root for M&J.

And people always talk about the "essence of the book". "Oh it doesn't matter if the show doesn't follow the book faithfully because the core of the characters/story are there", et cetera. But it's a two-edged sword: because I say the essence of the book involves the Luzbel, too. And we both are right.

(Ehh, I still don't speak English well enough otherwise I could summarize my thoughts in a much better way.)
 

Er.... I was actually talking about the character Corazon in Marimar who to my US eyes looks like a horrid Jim Crow era characiture (sp) of a plantation slave. Seeing as the show aired in 1994 I just wondered about it. Was there any reaction at the time to her?

I am so glad Jorge won but I can't believe TdA won so much. And LFDD was good but frankly not top prize good. Just my dos pesos.
 

Jardinera: Another masterpiece! Your summary was unbelievably detailed, completely involving and well written as always!

Too many favorite phrases to note them all but "one stop slop 'n plop" had me laughing out loud.

I so enjoy your recaps - they are the one bright spot in my Monday morning. Thanks you for your constatnt care and attention.

Like everyone else, I was dismayed beyond belief at Rogelio's further descent into purgatory. I would say hell, but it's apparant he is the "hero" here (be as it may) and redemption is likely inevitable.

I was very disturbed that he went after Sin. As others have noted, it was incredibly brutal. Are the real star crossed lovers Sin and Effer? I'm beginning to wonder. He would lay down his life for her and her tears seemed all too real. I still believe she views Gus as her knight in shining armor, ready to carry her far away. I think she does love Effer (as much as she may be capable of loving). While I hate what he is doing to Consuelo, there is no doubt Sin is the love of his life.

The worst is, Rohell hasn't begun to hit rock bottom. I'm really afraid of what's to come.

Thanks again Jardinera!!!

Diana
 

My biggest problem with the Effer/Sin relationship is that almost every sexual encounter starts with her saying NO and his persisting. Their lovemaking really grosses me out.
 

I mostly don't watch award shows because so few of the awards are truly given on merit. I don't think there has been a complete sweep since CS 1993, which clearly deserved it.

BTW, I agree with most of the comments here about that novela, which is one of the first I ever saw. I taped it on my VCR and I still cry when I think of how badly the DVD was cut down (although it made great video wallpaper at my first Hispanic ad agency). I've never been able, however, to get copies of any of CBA's books.

I also taped YCEM, which was Eduardo Yanez' star-maker. Neither of these needed to be remade although the combination of the two stories didn't bother me as much as it did everyone else here. What did bother me was Aracely Arambula and the constant attempts at comic relief. I have never seen Cuma de Lobos but I'm shuddering at what Mejia will do to it.

Finally, it bugs me about the novela awards is that we don't get it live here. Univision should lobby for that because the results could help ratings of stuff we haven't aired yet. It's not a high-rated program here because we already know the results before it airs.
 

UA:

I can send you the CS book.

I found the idea of mixing the stories very interesting. CS09 was made by Mejía and written by Abud, therefore it was doomed since the beginning, but some elements of it worked.
 

Aribeth: Muchas gracias. Send me an e-mail and I will send you my address. Let me know what I will owe you for it.
 

What is you e-mail address? (You can find mine is at my profile.) You don't owe me anything, it's digitalized. :) If I remember correctly, I downloaded it from a CS fansite many years ago.
 

Aribeth: I'd love a copy of it also, please!!!

======
Fabulous discussion threads! Though, I will admit to being a purist and wishing the CS2009 comparisons had been done at CS2009 when it was on air.
=======

Jarocha: Thanks for giving us the list of winners. ITA with UA that Univision/Televisa needs to put this awards night on even if it comes during the following weekend. It would boost ratings and there is a US fan base in place. !Viva Jorge!
 

Thanks to all of you for the praise for this one. Dark humor is about all one can expect, eh?

I suspect if Effer and Sin are starcrossed lovers then he will be somebody's bastard son from Bruno's family, cuz unless he wins his own lottery or the Irish Sweepstakes I don't see these two getting hitched in the end.
 

This comment has been removed by the author.
 

Hmmm.... it would certainly be interesting if Efrain were Bruno's bastard half brother. That would add a very Libran balance to the story.

Which raises mild to moderate incest issues for our Lady Chatterley. This could truly freak her out.
 

Jardinera, once again this golden. I know this was a bit of a tough one but you're the pro, so who better for this?

I've pretty well had my say about the episode already but I just wanted to express my appreciation and admiration.

Thanks,

Carlos
 

Jardinera: I think Univision will show the awards later. The problem with these shows is that they sometimes pick clips from big scenes at the end of novelas that are probably just starting to air in Univision, so they are full of spoilers.

I was glad for Jorge, as I said before, you could tell he was having a blast all night.

Sara: I wasn't aware of a negative reaction in México towards the Corazón character. She was a fan favorite but I don't know about other countries. I was a kid when I watched it, so I don't know if I may have missed something.

The black population represent less than 1% of the total of people in México and they usually live in communities in coastal towns of Guerrero, Veracruz and Oaxaca. Corazón represented that population, more than anything else, although she was indeed a bit of a caricature. But, in that telenovela, even Marimar herself was a caricature.

In Mexico, there's not as much political correctness and you'll notice this in telenovelas. Especially concerning the representation of certain sectors of the population and the way people from other countries. This is natural, given how small the percentage of immigration in the country is. Unlike the US or Canada or other developed countries with high immigration rates (and whose populations are defined by immigration) which have certain codes of respect towards every community. Besides that, especifically in the African-American community, you have a painful history that is always reminded when someone makes a careless representation of them in the media. Mexicans lack that history. So, for all those reasons, Corazón being a caricature of the black communities in Guerrero is accepted the same way as the nacos in telenovelas being caricatures of the poor communities in Mexico City or la India María being a caricature of the indigenous people. Whatever might be insulting goes right over the head of the viewers here.

Jarocha
 

Wow. Every time I see a promo for an India Maria movie I cringe.

One thing that bothers me about novelas is when there is a gringo character s/he never speaks Spanish correctly and always had a terrible accent unless the person is a corporate CEO or a genius doctor. Do people in Mexico really have such a negative view of us that this stereotype still reigns supreme? When I was on vacation in Spain (too long ago) a shopkeeper asked me if I was French because in Spanish I sound like the Televisa actors.
 

Aribeth-Thank you for the video clip of Jorge Salinas' acceptance speech. He is a very good actor. I have never seen him in anything before this. I am not a fan of the Rohell character right now, but the actor is really good. Congrats to him.
 

Aaahhhh! Jorge Salinas is suppossed to be in SD for the Latino FIlm Festival!!! I may have to prebuy tickets to Labios Rojos. I'll try to remember not to stare directly at the dimples.

Kelly
 

Well, native English speakers usually have more trouble when speaking Spanish than people from other nationalities.

I think it has to do with the sound of vowels and consonants, which is more simmilar to other languages than to English.

I work in my University's Center for European Studies and Business which is in the same building as our Center for North American Studies and I can tell you this: Students who come here from Central and Eastern Europe, especially, have less troubles with Spanish pronunciation than students coming from the US and Canada, even if the students from the US have a better grasp of the Spanish language overall and therefore have less troubles communicating with Spanish speakers (many of them already have experience communicating with Spanish speakers in the US).

I don't doubt your excellent Spanish accent UA, I've heard Vivi's and Cheryl's and theirs are great too. But many people aren't as commited to learning Spanish as well as all of you here in the blog are. And I think that's fine too. I don't believe it's necessary for anyone to work on their accent until they sound like natives. That's really hard and I've never heard anyone really reach that level, even teachers I've had who have lived in Mexico for years.

As for how the rest of the country perceives US citizens when speaking English, most Mexicans are in touch with these types of visitors: tourists and businessmen.

Businessmen, well, they are busy and most don't have the time to perfect their accents, although they get better with time.

As for tourists, the US is the nation with the biggest number of visitors coming to Mexico every year. Many come here because it's cheaper than going farther away and the time of the year with the most visitors is during spring break, when people here too visit the beaches. That's when both populations come in contact the most over here. Many spring breakers don't speak Spanish and those who do tend to have a thick accent.

In the last decade, we have had a great inflow of US retirees who come here to live comfortably with their pensions and they mostly have formed communities in places like San Miguel de Allende and Lago Chapala. English is becoming a second language there as it's very common to hear it. Many of these retirees struggle with Spanish and they feel comfortable living in these communities with each other, speaking their own language and sharing these new living environment together. Therefore their accent tends to be thick too.

So that's where the thick accented image of people from the US comes from.

Jarocha
 

Sorry, my post was in response to Urban's.

Jarocha
 

Huh? What happened to the look of this page???
 

Dear Folks--
With 188 comments and counting, I had to see what all the buzz was about. What a wonderful all-over the place discussion about everything telenovela, the backstories, writers, actors--and the bonus of the Premios. Jorge Salinas, as someone commented, OWNS this role. He was just practicing for it in Mariana de la Noche.

Thanks, Jardinera for the intensely personal recap. It was worth the wait.

I just want to add something about Mercy!!'s comment on violence as a PSA announcement. I didn't take it that obviously. Remember, she has not actually witnessed one of his beatings. She's only been privvy to his boorish behavior and all the yelling at the hacienda. Sin doesn't know her well enough yet to tell all--yet.

Mind you, I don't condone the violence--we're getting enough of it, gratuitously over at El Tal. But, come on, we viewers HAVE to be ambivalent about our central character. It strengthens our resolve to see the whole thing through. (It also helps that he's a really good-looking guy, good actor and expressive face--yeah, with dimples and puppy-dog eyes.)

According to the comments, Guscake is bland. Well, he wouldn't make a very good hacienda owner in a wheelchair barking orders, winning the love a beautiful nurse--IMOwnHOpinion, but he'd be nice, no?

And speaking of Gus--if the object of the telenovela is for Rogelio to be redeemed and win Paula back, Gus HAS to be somewhat of a decent nebbish. I think Jose Ron is playing him perfectly--we see what we're supposed to see--no real chemistry between them, not as many facial close-ups, the way we get to watch Rogelio's constantly changing visage, covering and exposing his real feelings.

The more extreme Rogelio's anger and agression is, the longer the road to being redeemed will be, the more it will mean to Paula, Margarito, Cinthia, Effraim, Maria and to Hugo.
Anita (with a capital A)
 

UA--Yikes is right. Too much white space now. I liked it nice and tight. The font has changed, too. At first I thought it was something I did, but after turning my durned machine off and on several times and it still looks white, I gave up.

Change at my age is not received as a pleasant event.
Anita
 

I was going to dump this one a few weeks ago, but forgot to delete it from my DVR line up. So I started reading the recaps and comments, then watching what scenes looked good from those. I've enjoyed Rog and AP coming together, but I've been very disturbed by what's happening now. What Rog is doing, whipping subordinates and drunken losers in the face, almost hitting his sister (and even if he wasn't really going to do that), beating another subordinate. I don't care what this guy has gone through, this behaviour is reprehensible. And it's hard for me to lump what he's doing with what AP's doing in the same category.

I'm with Audrey and Carlos on this one.

Robey
 

What in the heck happened to the page?
 

Am I 200? Wow the page is weird.