Caray, Caray!

The thing with Cayetano's roving eye is that he is falling into an emotional crap with Hissss. She is not just a piece of carne to him; he feels like her protector.
 

That title sounds intriguing. I hope it's not true though.
 

Haha! Emotional TRAP!
 

Like they say, "There's no fool like an old fool."

Ann-NYC

 

Yes, Rosemary, I agree. He's acting like he's ready for action. All he needs is a quiet place with no interruptions. Especially after she tells him her secret, not that he seems to need an excuse.

Also, I left my thoughts on the motive for murder on that last recap.
 

Thanks, J. As always, I look forward to your recap.

Just thinking about a past novela with Cesar and Leticia, one in which they were both good guys (and much younger!) It was 1999's Laberinto's de pasion. El salsero from AV, Francisco Gattorno, was Leticia's other love interest and generally a good guy, too. I think I recall her finally getting together with Cesar. I enjoyed it, but I must say that their latter-day efforts at villainy are pretty darn well done.


I guess there will be a wedding set up, if for no other reason than Bratgirl's goal of embarrassing Yago! I assume that Isadora will drop her bombshell on Cayetano immediately before or after. We'll see whether the wedding actually takes place. So much in play on all front. That's just one I'd love to see resolved in Luzma's and Pablo's favor.

And apparently our good-doer without the priestly vestment Aron will be providing literacy lessons for Leo. Interesting.
 

Remember when we talked about what US television series we'd like to see on Univision? I couldn't listen to Bratgirl because I was thinking how great Rodolfo would be as a Law and Order cop. DUN DUN (L&O sound).

I had some more relevant comment but I can't remember what it is now. Rodolfo in a nice suit is blocking the thought.

Kelly
 

ALL the little workers look good in their suits of tight pants. Gawd, I miss the 70s. These loose jeans most of the guys wear now look like they have a full diaper.
 

Since it is looking like the wedding is in the near future I hope they arent setting up Maria Elena to be a temptation for AFTER Pablo and Luz are married.
 

I was very surprised at Hissadora not becoming suspicious at Rosario not taking the money. While no figure was mentioned I'm sure it was more than enough for Rosario to get out of Dodge, change her name, and start over elsewhere.

Sorry I've flaked on a weekend topic this week; I was sick through the holidays and my sleep schedule thrown off. I'll be back with one next week.
 

Cathyx, you obviously picked up on the title. I'm a bit slow at interpreting "Swansong". Is it referencing his death?
 

A swansong is like a final gesture.
 

The avances were also very intriguing. It showed Rosario holding a large envelope at the burial.
 

Cathyx - I'm thinking the large envelope may be a document asserting that Chayo is his real mother and therefore the real heiress, which she'll then sign over to Camila.
 

Marta in NY - i don't know about the therefore part. I'm pretty sure you have to name the exact person you're leaving things to in your will rather than just say "my mother," especially because of situations like this with bio-moms vs. legal moms.

RLO: Noooo!!! Don't even think that! If Pablito did that to Luzma, I would be devestated!
 

I liked the little getting ready for bed scene. Such a normal, everyday kind of thing a couple does. Plus, I love that sheet/blanket set.

Looks like from the avances, Rosario has a document in her hands. Al’s new will with her as beneficiary? Or Cam?

I liked the scene with Vivi and Rafa. Couldn’t understand it, but it seemed to go well.

I’m actually liking the Ileana/Rodolfo plot that’s going on.

So, doesn’t seem like of us speculated that it would Iago who would overhear something he shouldn’t. He’s so jealous of Pablo, that I wouldn’t put it past him to use it against them. He’s not evil bad, and he loves his family, but his jealousy may overshadow that.

What I’m not liking is just one scene with characters in one ep. I wish they would just sprinkle scenes with these people throughout the ep, even if they’re small scenes or not have them in it at all. There was the just, one scene with Pablo and NG, one with Rodolfo and Ileana, one with Vivi and Rafa.

RlaO: the further along the pregnancy advances, I think the more upset/conflicted Luz will be and that will certainly affect their relationship. If they are married, that might push Pablo to seek refuge with someone else. I hope you’re wrong.

As soon as the recap is up and I read it to see what, if anything to add to the HPLP list, I’ll post it.

Nanette
 

I'm with you on the document in Rosario's hands. Well, I'm hoping.....
 

Maybe the large envelope is the same one that Comendante Cop left by Al's bedside. When Becerra asked him about it, didn't he say he he hadn't seen it? I'm hoping that Al 'signed' those papers with Rosario as a witness and entrusted them to her so Isa wouldn't grab them once he was gone. Problem solved for Dan-n-Cam.

It seems to me that writing a new will or something like that would be beyond what Al and Rosie could have done by themselves in that time frame, in a hospital room.
 

What Yago overheard was them talking about Cayetano and Isadora and Rocio's concern about them. He didn't overhear them talking about Pablo being Dan's son. Although with those loud smoker voices they have, it's a wonder they didn't overhear them talking at Malquerida.

Rafa asked Viv if she wanted to continue working with him on his books. She said of course, even though she hasn't sorted out her feelings yet, she still would want to be friends and continue working with him.
 

RdlO - I rather like the expression 'emotional crap' especially since you're talking about Hissadora. 'Emotional crap trap' also has a nice ring to it. :)
 

Since Al can not use or move his arms and hands, he couldn't have signed anything. I don't know what they do in that situation, maybe record him saying what he wants in his will or that he wants to sign the deed back over to Dan.
 

Good point, Carolina. Whatever they did, I just hope the outcome is that Cami ends up the rights to the property! That would go a long way in somewhat vindicating Alonso and perhaps conjure up some fond memories of him. I know I'm reaching, but I felt really bad for him at the end.
 

cathyx, I thought that was discussed, not in this episode but maybe in the last one. Maybe it was Becerra explaining to the Cop or to Dan how it worked? Al can indicate his wishes in the presence of a witness in place of signing. Or something like that. I couldn't catch all the details.

*sits and waits for Vivi to come along with all the facts*
 

Cathyx: thanks for clearing some things up for me.

Al did say he was going to prove his love to Cam with deeds, not words. The only thing could be the ranch.
 

Afterall, those documents that the Cop left there that would revoke the handing over of the MQ were left there to be 'signed'. And B was on his way there to facilitate that 'signing'. At least, that's how I understood things.
 

I sure hope Al told somebody before he died about that recording he made when in the hotel room with Isa threatening him and holding a gun to his head. He emailed it to himself before the crash. That could be pretty incriminating for Isa I would hope.

Nanette, I love Cam's sheets, too. They look like that Otomi style of embroidery that is from that region of Mexico.
 

Carolina - I love when I do an unintentional funny like crap trap. Hey, who knows how many other lovers she's had. She may be The Crap Clap Trap.

Yes, *where is Our Vivi*?

HellaShell - I agree it would be devastating! But dramatic.
 

Rosemary, por favor. If you are going to mention things like Isadora's Crap Clap Trap you are going to have to pass me the brain bleach. iPronto!
 

Unless he was referring to the mercy killing, there has to be something dangerous about what Al asked Rosario to do. He asked her if she would still do "it" even though it may cost her her own life.
 

RlaO: Didn't realize All said that about it might cost Rosario her life. Anything Rosario does against Isa, puts her in danger
 

He could have meant that, or he could have meant she'd go to prison if she got caught pulling a Kevorkian. Or I could have misunderstood!
 

Hi Carolina,

I'm obviously not Vivi, but I think Bercerra said that in such cases they can use a fingerprint or, as is more appropriate in Al's case, he would have had to declare his wishes before Bercerra (or any lawyer, I guess) and two witnesses.

Are we allowed to post our thoughts about the eppy before the summary goes up or do we have to wait so that there are no spoilers for those who haven't seen/read it yet?
 

RlaO: I didn't think about her going to prison because I so don't want her going to prison.
 

HS - that sounds right. I knew I wasn't remembering everything. So now the question would be if they could have somehow pulled that off? Because otherwise I am not seeing a clear way for the MQ to get back to Dan-n-Cam anytime soon.
 

Rosemary, I took it to mean that she would be willing to euthanize him, because if it were found out, she would be considered a murderer. But we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

HellaShelle, as long as the episode has aired on TV, we are free to discuss it. That's why Jardinera puts up the header. That way we don't have to wait until she can provide the recap.
 

Nanette - what is your profile picture?
 

HelleShelle, now that you mention fingerprint, I remember Osvaldo mentioning that when he was talking to the comandante in his room. I didn't understand what he was talking about when he mentioned fingerprint, but that must have been it. But I don't remember the witnesses part, but that would make sense since otherwise, someone could just grab his hand and make the fingerprint without his consent. But if he did do that, who were the witnesses?
 

Yes, the scene I was thinking of was when Dan was talking to Bercerra on the phone at Camila's cabana.

Hmm, I have a lot to say about this episode so I'm going to post. Forgive me my many comments.
 

Rosemary, speaking of avatars, I expanded yours to see it better and I laughed so hard. I showed it to my daughter and I had to explain it to her.
 

Erg, I deleted a weird part of my post

Cathyx - yes, someone could just grab his hand, so I think he would've had to go with the second option. I'm not sure why the first option exists, unless it's there for someone in say Tio Cerdo's position.
 

Okay here goes:

It looks like the writers found legit reasons to keep Aaron and Rafa around for a good long while, which is nice. Viviana’s comment that Rafa was in love with Camila only a little while ago was a good point. It highlighted to me that he’s coming on a bit strong, as someone else was pointing out before (also, bringing bread as a gift?..interesting choice. I like it.) Plus, given Dan’s quick turn around between Miriam and Camila, it provides a point of understanding between the two friends, esp if M’s still alive.

Poor Chayo! I feel so bad for her! It only just occurred to me how suspicious it will look if she was his nurse and he left everything to her and Hissa accuses her of murder…

I know yesterday I was with most other people about Al’s plan, now I’m wondering why he would make it so complicated. If he’s going to change his will, why not just leave everything to Camila or the ranch to Cam and everything else to his mom?

Ok, Pablo’s head seems screwed on straight and Chippie’s off my naughty list. Their talk def made me think we are heading for a Yago/Maria Elena connection. Speaking of Yago, after last night’s comments I almost thought Ana would be hiding around that corner. I had not considered Yago and his discovering the Hissa/Caytano affair. That was a twist I was not expecting but I like a lot! I’m curious to see how his learning his dad might be cheating will affect his treatment of women and his relationship with Nat (and especially Chippie, if it comes to that). PS: I wish Pablo and Dan would stand up straight, with their shoulders back!

Seems like no one cares about Al’s velorio. I mean, the scumbag FX had no problem showing up to chantejar a Hissadora! I would expect it of him, but I was a little surprised that the comandante showed up to tell Hissa about Alonso’s accusation. He didn’t explicitly warn her about leaving the country/area did he? I guess they did about the same with Ximena though. I am surprised that FX drew a line between Hissadora after Camila’s kidnapping/Alonso’s death. I was hoping that when Caye asked the police officer how he could take Al’s word strongly enough to bother Hissa the comandante would say social standing doesn’t come before fairness or something.

Dio’s in for quite a surprise…

Net girl: I watched that montage scene a second time and totally saw what you meant by Isa and Xi looking alike! I hope you’re mistaken about Rudolfo and Illy though; I would really rather see him with Nat.

Carolina/LXV: I can agree aout Gussie, I feel bad for her too. I can’t imagine how she feels knowing that her marriage isn’t going to work a third time around and Dio is cruel. The fact that everything she says or does it met with ridicule is too much. However, Rocio just makes me mad. I see where she’s coming from with being scared her secret gets out and I agree with Cathyx that that would have been better served by not freaking out about it. But as you said Carolina, she’s never even met Luzma beyond the nonhandshake and especially given her background, she’s being extremely judgemental. You’d think she was pure as the driven snow in all of her actions rather than that she had an affair and has been lying to her entire family since. At least meet the girl before you reject her, geez…
 

When CdlF was on Dancing With the Stars, the judges really got after him about his posture and he did a lot better after the first week or two. Bad posture does NOT cut it in the world of ballroom dancing. I've noticed that it seems to come and go for him on AB. At times it's really bad.
 

Carolina - Darn it! I didn't even know he was on that show! I don't watch it often, but I did kick myself for not doing so after finding out that William Levy was on one season.

Nanette- ITA on the bed scene. I just recently realized that the reason I love this couple so much more than others from TNs is that they have these adorable scenes where we get to see them in "real" life and I don't think I've seen another couple like that because I don't think I've seen another couple live together as a couple before being married.
 

I'm ok with Rafa bringing bread. I'd much rather have a nice, crusty baguette than a bunch of flowers or candy. Good luck, Rafa!

But I just can't bring myself to feel much sympathy for Augustina. For her loss of Ximena, yes, of course. But even Ximena called her out on putting whatever man was in her life before her daughters when they were young. Maybe Xi was just being selfish (not against type), but she probably got this one right. Augie needs to quit making her life only about the man she's with and get a hobby or a job. A real job, not a fake, steal from people because her current husband said it was ok kind of job. Sell knitting on Etsy maybe.

Kelly
 

LOL Kelly that would be a perfect job for her. Too bad I don't think she can use a computer. I think Carolina and LXV were right to point out the generational issues though. I don't think Augustina's ever had to work, so she doesn't know what to do with herself without someone to take care of and God knows Ximena and Camila are too independent for that (barring moments of physical/mental devastation).
 

RlaO: It’s “The Execution of Lady Jane Grey” by Paul Delaroche. The subject matter is a bit gruesome, but I love the beauty of the painting.

HS: “I wish Pablo and Dan would stand up straight, with their shoulders back!”—- I’ve been thinking about that re: Dan since day one! I have to admit I’ve not noticed it in Pablo.

I like the statue of Mary that Rosario was praying to.

Kelly "Sell knitting on Etsy maybe."--too funny.
 

I bought a knitted nose warmer from someone on Etsy. It's a penguin. So I look quite fetching when I go to bed with my penquin nose warmer and my 1960s retro looking eye mask.
 

I like to think that Rafa brought Viv bread because he knows it's her favorite kind and it's not always available and so therefore it shows he's thinking of her.

I'm with Kelly, I don't feel sorry for Aggie past the fact that her daughter has died. I said before that it's always sad to lose a child, no matter how awful they are as a grownup because they more than likely weren't awful as a child and you loved them unconditionally then and you never really get past that. But I don't feel sorry for her or Rocio because it's their own fault that they are separating themselves from their family by their bigotry and snobbiness. It doesn't matter to me that it was acceptable in their day to feel superior to the help. Slavery was acceptable too back in the day, and we can all agree that it's not acceptable at all now. These ladies need to evolve.
 

Cathyx: HEAR!!! HEAR!!!
 

Hi everyone. Quick thing about bringing bread ... when I lived in or stayed in areas of the spanish-speaking world, giving bread was a great gift because it was freshly baked daily. I'm outside of the US now and have been promised a gift of fresh 'pan' for Three Kings Day.

Univision is different where I am and our shows are in a different order, so I appreciate the recaps since I won't be back on your schedule until I come back to the states. Thanks for a great part 1 Jardinera! Looking forward to part 2!
 

Nanette- it really is a pretty picture.

Cathyx - glad you and your daughter got a kick out of mine! My Bubba is lucky I'm not doing that to him.

I see the recap is up. Off to read...
 

Great recap, Jardinera. I choked on my Dos XX when I read:

"...their poor, miserable, frog-faced pal, Al, just croaked."

Venomous...but hilarious.

After watching last night, I"m intrigued by New Girl. Is she even in the right show?

Has anyone else tried to visualize an upcoming bedroom scene between Isadora and Cayetano? Yikes!

Carlos
 

Thanks for the recap! I thought I set it to record last night but it did not. Luckily, I had downloaded more episodes than I needed when I was in FL. Without subtitles, though, I was waiting for the recap before I watched.

I was messing with the potential couples here. I wish Teresa would be able to return. She seems the logical partner for Aaron, since both work for people who are worse off. However, I wonder who or if there is someone for Dante.

Assuming everyone has to have a partner.

Cindy
 

Loved the first part, Jardinera. Your nicknames continue to amuse me. And you really called the action just as it was. Crocodile tears, doc not doing grieving mothers well, clueless teacher and wondering warden. So true.
 

Carlos, you nailed it on new girl. It does seem like she's in the wrong show. She seems out of place here.
 

Oh wow! You guys have been having quite the conversation today while I was out. Glad to see someone was able to answer the fingerprint in place of a signature question.

Jardinera- Thanks for Part 1. You're really bringing on the snark today. Does death bring it out in you? :)

Cindy- I posted the listing of singles ther other day. I'll go back, copy and paste it here in a bit. Then you can mix and match Dante with whomever you please.

I hope Chayo doesn’t chicken out with whatever the rest of “the Plan” is. She’s barely holding it together.

I liked the gift of bread. I LOVE freshly baked bread! And they do it so well in other countries. U.S. bread just doesn't compare.

Rafa told Vivi that his editor wants him to continue with his first book-- the non-fiction book about bull ranching-- now that the romance novel is done. That's the book he was originally working with Vivi on, where she was responsible for all the photos in the book. So now he has a reason to see her and work with her regularly again. Smart boy.

 

Cindy- Here is the list of Pairs & Spares. Mix and match at your will.

Current couples we like for the long run: Cami-Dan; Luzma-Pablo; Amanda-Osvaldo; Dorotea-Eluterio (their flirting is cute); Piedad-Hipolito (also some cute flirting)

Couples we want to see broken up: Nat-Yago; Gussy*-Dio

Men available for coupling: Mariano; Yago (after he ends it with Nat); Rodolfo; Rafa; Aaron; Dante; Tolentino

Women available for coupling: Vivi; Natalia; Teresa; Iliana; Maria Elena; Irene; Miriam (if she's alive)

Seven free women, for seven free men!

*Gussy does not get added to the list of available women due to the three strikes, you're out rule. She needs to remain single and do some soul searching.

 

RlaO- Emotional Crap is right. Cayetonto has walked into a big old trap full of crap. I feel a bit bad for him now that he's being more reasonable about Pablo marrying Luzma, but both he and Rocio need something that will shake them up and wake them up, and Isa sure as heck is capable of that...if she also doesn't end up killing one or both of them in the process.
 

I'm with you Vivi! I love bread as a gift. I even wish every year someone will bring me fruit cake for Christmas but nobody ever does.

Jar- lol to "Al's only remaining movable part" and screaming-meemie Mami in her inappropriate dress.
 

That dress was extremely inappropriate wasn't it? It looked good on her though. I thought it was funny the way Cami and Dan stared at her like she was some kind of alien creature when they came upon her weeping her crocodile tears in the hospital waiting area.
 

I have to tell ya, I know we made fun of Isa in those tight black pants, but when my daughter suggested I find a motivational picture of someone whose body I'd like to strive to look like (annual New Year weight loss resolution), Leticia Calderon is exactly who I thought of.
 

Ok, from the Top:

RLO--I like the idea of Cayetano falling into emotional crap. Is it green, slimy, smelly?
 

Vivi, love your 3 strikes you're out rule. But I thought we all agreed that Dan and Cathyx were a couple. No?

I actually liked Isa's dress, although maybe not for your son is in the hospital wear. But I would wear it to a picnic with my man Dan.
 

About that dress... I thought that Alonso's Dr. might take a moment to behold her as she bent forward trembling in her grief... but... nopis... "The doc doesn’t do grieving mothers..."

I enjoyed the funeral home scene where Isadora continues to rag on Alonsa even as he lies in his coffin. Then Frank gives the box a few irreverent pats to emphasize his points. Poor Alonzo... no respect... even after he's dead. I sure hope his postmortem plans go better than things did before he died.

Carlos
 

Ooop, Jar--I didn't mean to skip over part I. Brilliant as usual. The best so far are

Aloco-destined-for-Limbo-lonso heaves his smeary-eyed last and heads for “lo más allá”

and

Rosario is left to sob the only genuine tears of grief and to cover up Al’s only remaining movable part.

I also thought Issa was inappropriately dressed for the hospital--but then, she's there for show, since they won't let her in to see her Golden Goose.

Coinkydink indeed--so lame (did like il-literacy class. Aaron, being a good-hearted sport will probably be the one to actually teach him to read and write. I remember in one early episode, Leosinlengua laboriously copies down a phone number on Julian's cell with a message from Dio. So at least he's one step closer literacy, he knows how to copy.

Oh, I did see the yellow manila envelope on the table where the Comandante had left it in Al's room, but then it was covered up by Nurse #2's metal clipboard, so I couldn't tell if it was left there accidentally (by film crew) or whether it is significant. Sounds like we don't have long to wait.

When Rosario slipped and said she did it for Amor and Issa was a little taken aback by the term amor, she quickly recovered and said it was the amor any mother would have for her child--throwing off the idea that she was the one with the amor for Al.

More after I go through the next 50 comments!! That may be tomorrow.


 

OK, Carolina--sorry to be dittoing againg. I'm going to apologize right now for having the same independent emotional crappy thoughts as others as I move down the comments. SORRY.
 

Anita - lol- no problema. It's like low hanging fruit!

HS & cathyx – I do understand your points about Rocio. But just to be clear, I said I could understand Rocio and Gussy because I am close in age to them (I am actually more like Isa’s age), but it was Agnes/LXV who mentioned generational issues, not me. I think that Rocio’s snobbery really doesn’t have much to do with her age nor is it outdated. Mexico does not a classless society like we have in the US (more or less); it is still today a very rigidly class-ordered society. Maybe these days in the US if a very wealthy person from a family with ‘old’ money were to marry someone from a working poor background would not be a huge deal, but maybe it would be. However, in Mexico it would be a huge deal. To judge Rocio’s - or anyone’s - behavior by our cultural norms and not by hers is something I would never do.

My main point, however, was that her motives are not evil. She is acting out of love to protect her family, as she sees it. I have sympathy for her because of that, even though I wouldn’t try to defend all of her behavior.

Also, I said all along that Rocio would be better off not freaking out so much about the possibility of her secret getting spilled by contact with Camila. But freaking she be doing, sadly.

 

Carolina, if that's the case about Mexico and classism, then shame on them. I don't care if its acceptable there, it's not right. Mariano and Camila don't care about that, and I'm not ever going to feel sorry for those old biddies and their prejudices. I have no problem judging them over their cultural norms. Making judgements about that is the only way it changes.
 

Carolina: I don't think Rocio's acting out of love for her family is her only motive. It seems to me to be more about not wanting her indiscretion to cause Cayetano to leave her and her reputation to be in shreds. I really do believe she's more concerned about herself in this. But, since I do not understand Spanish very well, I may be missing something.
 

And regarding Rafa's novel. How long did he work on it? A week?! I think even a short, strict formula type romance like a Harlequin would take longer.
 

Carolina, we are not a classless society in the US; we're just in denial about it.

My college buddy graduated with honors but would never have gotten into the executive suite at IBM because he didn't go to an Ivy League school.

The great love of my life was descended from Mayflower arrivals which didn't matter to him but it mattered to his mother although her name wasn't Rocio. Thanks to her machinations he ended up married to her best friend's daughter. I was not regarded as good enough for him and I'm not even descended from servants.

It's not always about money, but we do have a class system here.

Back to the episode, I had to think that Hissadora's highly inappropriate dress was to come on to the doctor if she felt it necessary. And there is always Cayetano.

Iago will certainly investigate what he's overheard.
 

UA - Well, now I'm mad at that Mayflower Madam. Is she crazy? Who wouldn't want you as their D-I-L? I bet his wife is a bore. Poor guy feeling the need to do what his mother wants. Shall we call him Alonso?


 

He was much better looking than Alonssso... and didn't have his other problem either!
 

Week of December 31, 2012:

Highpoints:

Daniel kicks FX off the ranch.
Luz asking Dan to walk her down the aisle.
Luz thinking of Dan as a big brother and he thinking of her as a little sister.
Al thinking of Xi (I like the montages of her. She was bad, but not evil.)
Cayetano relents about the baptismal document.
Piedad for once doesn’t make it worse for Luz re: pregnancy by putting her foot in her mouth and calms her down during wedding dress shopping.
Conversations between characters we don’t hear so that we have something to stress about/look forward to (so could also be low point—I like that they do it, though).
Dan and Dante connect.
Dante is working with Teresa (hmmmmm).
Shout out to telenovelas.
Loved Cam’s shout to Rafa when he calls (though the news ends up being bad).
HIPOLITO SITING.
Luz askes Irene to be a bridesmaid. The forgiveness is complete.
Pablo apologizes to his mother (continuing to show his maturity).
The montage before Al dies—I like how they edited it, mixed up the good and bad.
Vivi and Rafa have a nice convo.
There’s one point when Francisco is talking to Isa, I thought I caught a fleeting look of worry on her face.

Low Points:

FX talks nasty about D’s mother.
Ileana gets moded by Iago because . . .
. . . Cayetano and Rocio’s attitude about men/women relationships suck. Go to it, Isa--they get what they deserve.
Chemistry between Pablo and New Girl. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
Ileana’s pimp of a mother’s hypocritical message for her daughter to not get hurt.
Rocio is clueless. “Take a different tack, Emma” (referencing Murphy’s Romance).
Cam: Mariano’s secret is none of your business. So, you asked for it.
Luz upset about her wedding dress tummy.
Os is stabbed!
Dio’s hostel spy is getting on my nerves.
Rodolfo and Nat have a not very nice convo.
Agustina continuing on that slippery slope called delusion.
Practically half this TN takes place in the hospital.
Amanda won’t tell the Scoobies what’s up with Dio.
Agustina’s continued snarky attitude to Dan.
Dio’s complete disrespect for Ag (though she kind of deserves it).
Rocio.
Iago’s whining about Pablo being the favorite. Is it any wonder?!
Alonso’s heartbreaking plea to Cam.
Rocio—Pablo is a bad example for Iago?! Are you insane?!
Alonso dies. He was bad, not evil, and did not deserve this end.
Isa about to drop a bomb that could interfere with the Pablo/Luz wedding.

 

cathyx...yes, yes, and YES re your comments about the boring, idiotic fool known as Gussie.

THANK YOU!

 

All that happened in 1 week ? Thanks for the list, Nanette. I like that Hipolito rates CAPITALS.

UA- so you are saying he was more like Dan, our favorite hunchback, or should we refer to him as a hunkback? Hopefully your guy had better posture.
 

RlaO: If Hipolito is anything like Laz (CME), he'll always rate capitals!
 

Nanette- A nose warmer? That's a thing? Are you in Alaska? But I'm sure Augustina could whip one of those out. Maybe an eagle instead of a penguin though. More Mexican.

Happy Three Kings Day (the 6th) everyone! Hope the Kings bring you all the toys that Santa forgot. Or at least enjoy a rosca cake. If you get the plastic doll hidden it, you'll be throwing the Caray party in February. Accidently swallowing the doll doesn't get you out of it either.

kelly
 

Jardinera thanks for the recap. I didn't realize Isa is about the wreck Rocio's world. The writers really scored well w/Iago being the one to hear Refugio and Rocio.

Nanette - thanks for the list! It is exciting to reflect on how much happens in a week.

UA - Sorry to hear about your very explicit examples of how class still really does exist.

Though I enjoy Dan and Pablo, they should stand up straighter.


 

Jardinera, thanks for the excellent recap. Too many laughs!

UA, I said that we were a classless society more or less. I couldn’t agree with you more that we most certainly have classes and that most Americans deny that. Amen to that. And I’m sorry about your Mayflower meanie experience. It certainly goes on. However, compared to someplace like Mexico, we are relatively free of the restrictions of class that rules their lives in ways that most Americans can’t even comprehend.

Nanette, no I don’t think Rocio’s love for her family is her only motive. ITA that she also wants to protect herself and, by extension, spare her family from going through all that would happen if her secret was exposed. In my mind, though, I don’t think either motive is evil.

cathyx, with all due respect, I do not think that judging other cultures from the stance that we are morally superior to them and that they need to change to satisfy our ideals is ever the right approach. Listening, compassion, and trying to see things from their perspective is much more important to me. It’s a different culture. Not better, not worse, just different.

 

Kelly: Don't laugh, but I live in the LA area. It gets cold here (relatively speaking)during the winter. Compared to what my family has been going through in Indiana, however, it's like a tropical island. :)

Carolina: I don't think Rocio is evil. I do think she's selfish. I really don't think that sparing her family is uppermost in her mind. Not that she doesn't love her family. I just feel like it's more self-preservation.


 

Karen: Thanks for the heads up. I thought to put Yago eavesdropping in and forgot! Situation corrected.
 

Thanks, amig@s for stopping by and adding to the great discussions this weekend! Happy to see I landed a few giggles as well again, considering comedy isn't my thing necessarily, just description.....
 

Rosemary, he had been in the Marine Corps and was an excellent swordsman. He also looked like something out of an Alexandre Dumas novel. No posture problem.

Back to Rocio, she is going to pay for her attitude and her attempt to keep her family away from La Malquerida. I'm not yet prepared to predict whether she loses Cayetano or not, but she will (at least temporarily) lose her sons' respect. I feel bad for little Ana, who doesn't need that kind of family stress right now.
 

I love the second part too. And I could not agree with you more about Iliana and Rodolfo. It's out of place for this TN. It's like they had a guest writer from Amores Verdaderos come in and invent that part of the story. Stoopid and boring and senseless.

I hope Juarez is more on the ball than the usual TN police investigator. I would love for him to find the evidence that is there and put it together.
 

It feels to me like the writers want the Iliana-Rodolfo relationship to feel forced and awkward. I mean, look at Rodolfo's face. He's going against his principals, and he's not even really turned on by Ili. Basically, he is getting no benefit out of this. But he is so desperate to 1) get Nat away from a man he thinks will hurt her; and 2) will Nat over, that he's going against his own instincts and principals and playing Ili's games. Rodolfo is so NOT a game player. I did think it was interesting that he was so quick to react and say that Nat is NOT having sex with Yago, when that's probably all that Nat and Yago do when they get alone together (since he's not taking her for movies, dinners, etc.). Will it change Rod's feelings for her when he finds out she's not his sweet, innocent Nat anymore?
 

That's, win Nat over, not will her over. Although, with the way things are going, it's going to take a great deal of will to make that happen.
 

If Yago is just using Nat, she will eventually get the picture. I think he can only string her along for so long. If she gets pregnant, then that's another story. But I doubt Yago would stand up for her in that case either, and maybe Rodolfo would. I hate this story line though. It's idiotic to think that Iliana can sway any Albaran with this. Yes, I know she wants revenge on Yago, but this is ridiculous.

Isa mentioned there were letters along with the picture. I wonder if the letters mention Pablo being Don Dan's son.
 

Cathyx-
Ili's plan will fail like all her others. She's horrible at planning and plotting. But Rod doesn't know that.

If the letter mentioned that Pablo was his son, Don Daniel would have done something about it. So I don't think so.
 

Good point about the mention about the son. Duh. But they probably talked about their torrid love affair.
 

Jardinera -- As much fun as the episode, though the visuals, including Isadora in her various loud and inappropriate if fetching outfits, are worth the price of admission.

I love your remarks about the Ileana/Rodolfo scenes were just great. What the heck is she after? Does pobre de Rofolfo really think that Natalia hasn't done the deed? And, I guess, we have another chippy in the mix. Iago sure does seem to be cut from different material than Pablo and Mariano.

I always enjoy it when the rogue character, FX, gets the laughs and the appreciation of a grateful audience. Someone has to rattle Isadora's cage, and FX does it so well. He's like a gnat who buzzes in and out irritating people who need to be irritated.

As for Rocio, whatever her motives, when Pablo's parentage comes out, the surprise will be brief. He looks just like Camila! (And, they are occasionally wearing the same black vest!) I actually love their scenes together, knowing that their easy relationship will soon have another dimension. Camila could use a good sibling.
 

It seems to me that Yago would be the son from a different father. I think that Pablo and Mariano are very much alike, in looks and in personality. Poor Yago has textbook middle child syndrome.
 

I hesitate to jump into this discussion on classicism (which is often tied to racism) in our country and in Mexico and Latin America. Classicism and racism exist everywhere. I think we absolutely have the right to criticize it wherever we see it (home and abroad), but we cannot/should not pass judgment on one country being superior to another because of it. That’s what I try to keep in mind when I travel. I think critically about what has made a culture the way it is, and why they have or haven’t hung on to certain practices or beliefs. It continues to disappoint me, whenever I travel to Latin America, how they continue to hang on to these outdated ideas of class and race. Particularly because the U.S. and the LatAm countries are around the same age, and we share similar histories and timelines (conquest, colonization, slavery, revolution, emancipation, democracy). It’s beyond time for there to be some real changes on this front in LatAm, but the change has been painfully slow.
 

Thanks, Jardinera, for the great recap, and Nanette, for your fabulous list.

Nanette, love your line re: Cami getting what she asked for in hounding Mariano to tell her his secret (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

I didn't find the exchanges between Rafa and Vivi to be a yawn fest. I think it makes sense she takes it slowly given his recent "love" for Cami, which he's now not calling love. I too like bread as a gift, and as for the giver of the gift, I think he's el mas guapo on the show, including CDF. Just goes to show it's all in the eyes of the beholder:)


 

Nanette- Forgive me. I did mean to thank you for your list. All of that happened in 4 episodes, huh? You've got to hand it to these writers when there is a MAJOR plot turn each week (this week Os's stabbing and Al's death and plotting with Chayo), while the audience can still feel like there are slower/boring (?) (I say time for character development) moments.

I would add Cami and Dan at the breakfast table for their first family breakfast as a highlight, while at the same time the way Gussy treated Dan at the table was a low point.
 

I think Rocio is more in it for herself than her family. She doesn't care about her boys' happiness, only about how it looks to others. She does have a cute hairdo though (except for the day she had it curled under instead of out).

Nanette! LOL A nose warmer and you live in SoCal! I love it! When I was just in Anaheim during Thanksgiving we drove past the Univision building. (I played my Cuando ringtone for everyone in the van as we drove past.) Why can't you and Flaco run in there and ask them when/if they are going to re-run CME? I'm scared it will play late at night and we'll not know it. I emailed them, but they didn't respond.

UA-yes, you already mentioned that unlike Al your guy was an excellent swordsman. Oh, THAT kind of swordsman. Have you kept in touch? I wonder if he's happy. Really, amiga, you are better hanging with people who adore you for the fun, intelligent, witty gal who goes to fun parties that we can live vicariously through, that you are. It's oversaid, but sometimes things do work out for the best, even with the ache.
 

Nanette: Yes, thank you for the reportage of another stem winder week! You always bring up things I've filed away and totally forgotten and it is such a good way to review with a laugh or two!
============
Traveling Lady: "Someone has to rattle Isadora's cage, and FX does it so well. He's like a gnat who buzzes in and out irritating people who need to be irritated." LOL! I couldn't have said it any better than that and you've really nailed this character. IMO you could add Gussie to the cage-rattling needy on FX's list.
 

Rosemary, I have not. It would have been too painful for both of us. I should add that this same woman broke up her daughter's first marriage with her nasty comments and other games. The daughter ultimately married an older man she met through work and has since become a widow... with an inheritance.

Ahora me gusta mucho ser solterona con dos gatos guapos.
 

Jard, just loved your recap. It was so funny and I enjoyed it so much!! You have a real gift.

Ann-NYC
 

Just to stick my nose in again--

Rocio is all about Rocio and her reputation. She knows there will be a scandal if the news gets out to all the other "respectable" ganaderos-rancho owners' wives and she will be toast in the local society.

I don't think she's contemplated any farther than that. But certainly part of the toast crumbs will be Cayetano on his high horse leaving her (well that would be hard to do since he owns la Buenaventura). OTOH, he's in a good place to cast Scarlet Lettered Rocio out, since he has a chippie who's needy and already sliming all over him--he won't lack for any nookie, which hopefully we won't have to watch. Smooching will be bad enough.

I wonder if Rocio will catch *him* first, before the secret gets out. Hissydominatrix had better talk quick if she wants to stay around him. We'll probably have to endure muchos episodios while she denies, denies and finally has to give in to a DNA test.

Thank goodness they live in an age of modern Mexican medicine--DNA tests and huge preemie babies!!!!

 

Seeing our main pareja in old couple mode (turning down the sheets and neatly placing the decorative pillows at the foot of the bed before climbing in to cuddle in their pjs), prompted me to go back and look at some of the scenes when their romance was just getting started. We've gone from Dan hating Cami, while stalking her; to Dan and Cami fighting their mutual attraction; to Cam fighting her attraction while Dan gets his flirt on; to mutual flirtation and admission of love; to secret lovers mode; then major breakup and major makeup; and now public relationship/old married couple mode.

Their first kiss is still one of my fave moments, as Dan was in heavy flirt mode and Camila was in full on fight mode. The kiss scene (Min 1:40) is followed by some good flirting/fighting (Min 5:40): http://bit.ly/XzvdLM
 

Glad you guyrs are enjoying the list. I enjoy compiling it.

Vivi: “I think critically about what has made a culture the way it is, and why they have or haven’t hung on to certain practices or beliefs.”—I agree. I always hesitate signing online petitions that are about issues happening in other countries, unless it’s a basic human rights issue. Also, though I do find some of the episodes moving slowly, building up to the next wave of action, I don’t find them boring. I don’t think I’ve FF’d through this TN at all. As a matter of fact, I think StuD was the only one I FF’d through. I think the reason I didn’t put Cam/Dan at the breakfast table in the HP list is because he felt so uncomfortable about being treated like the patron. I think Cam needs to back off of insisting he act like the dueno. I know that he is (though at that moment it was legally Al), but he’s not comfortable in that role, he feels like Cam is the duena and she really needs for him to get used to the idea (because we know Cam is more stubborn than Dan and in the long run, he will be the dueno). Thanks for the timeline of Cam and Dan’s relationship. I always like to revisit the romantic progression, even though Cam and Dan are not my fav TN couple.

Marta: I know most people were against Mariano saying anything to her, and I can see their point, but I didn’t like that Cam pushed him and I’m still like that Mariano is being honest about his feelings for her.

RlaO: I’m going to get Cuando for my ringtone, too. Since I don’t use my phone as a phone (more like checking e-mails, mobile internet), I haven’t been able to justify the cost---yet. I’m weakening, though. I search SN on my DVR every few days looking for her in Cuando since Flaco missed it the first time around and I keep telling him he needs to see it. I’ll let you know as soon as it appears on the list for her.

 

I agree with those who say Rocio is really not thinking of her family with her snobbish attitude. Her whole demeanor and all her conversations with Refugio in this regard are all about "el qué dirán" as it refers to HER. Her nasty attitude is even more hateful when we consider that, as Refugio has previously mentioned, she herself came from nothing. When she responded that "at least she had 'class'," her lack of absolute understanding of what "class" really is is glaringly obvious. Just having money doesn't give you class. As Brandi on the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills says, it just gives you money!
 

I just had a thought: Cam and Dan might insist that Pablo take over the ranch, since he's Don Daniel's son. If that happens, I wonder if they will stay around and help run it or move some place else at the end of the TN.

Vivi: I can't remember when it was--though I'm sure you can--but I remember liking the first time Dan called Cam "Camila"
 

Well done, Jar--I'm working my way through part II. Terrific read--while I wait for the Redskins-Seahawks match up.

>Cayetonto gets on his gálan and demands an explanation.< Loved this image. It's sort of like a suit of clothing he can put on or take off, depending on the occasion.

Similar to Hissy and her crocodile tears. She turns them on and turns them off depending on the occasion. Obvio it was intentional the number of times she was shedding tears for an audience but didn't have to wipe any away. The studio sure saved on glycerin drops with her role (maybe CdL went over-budget).
 

Anon 1:53: I like what that Brandi person said. It's so true. I've also never understood how children of rich people feel they are so entitled because they're rich when it was their parents who made the money and they've done nothing to earn it.
 

Nanette - Like you, I respect Mariano for being honest about his feelings. It's just that Camila pushing him into saying it one more time (of course, she didn't know what he'd say) was hard to watch. I hope Mariano finds happiness with a lucky lady sometime soon.
 

Hey, our Vivi--speaking of the romance between Cam 'n Dan as it heated up--I was about to post on Operation Shine the Light, all the most romantic episodes and our recappers's interpretations--very abreviated. (I hesitate to say great minds think alike, cause no-body is in your league.

Anon207, your HPLP will also be added. This is so much fun. I'm still so uneasy about where the writers are going to take us from here. Cam 'n Dan are just too content right now.


Jar, another gem of yours: The old fart puffs up and prunes. Whether you meant preens or prunes, he *is* a shrivelled up old prune puffing.
 

Nanette, I agree with you about the entitled children of the rich. That's why I admire Warren Buffett, who plans to leave 99% of his fortune to charities and once commented, "I want to give my kids just enough so that they would feel that they could do anything, but not so much that they would feel like doing nothing". Imagine if they did this in TNs. Where would Rocio be then? She couldn't have married into money!
 

Anita- Oooh! I can't wait for you to add the most romantic moments. My favorite parts!

Nanette- I think the first time he dared to call her Camila to her face was the first kiss episode. But I could be wrong. Then there's the time after he beat the crap out of Leon, when they were in secret lover mode, that he was tuteando-ing her in front of everyone, but Xi was the only one who picked up on it.
 

Nanette
Geeze, I apologize, Nanette--Of course, they are your HighPoints and LowPoints. I'm out of touch with current slang, I guess. In the second line of your lowpoints, what is Iliana gets "moded" by Iago?
 

Nanette/Vivi--I was actually watching the first beso episode again. Dan does, indeed, call her Camila under the trees when she takes off, and he's tuteando her. I'm sure it's the first time he calls her by name. When she stops her horse and he says we have to talk, he calls her senora, again. Then in the courtyard he uses the tu again--that's when she tells him to stop tuteando her.
 

Gracias Jardinera, another wonderful weekend, sipping at your rollicking prose. I actually enjoy how you dole it out in doses.

As for the classism controversy, all I can say is I ain't no Christian, but I seem to recall a saying which goes: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone". We all have our own peccadillos, based on unique personality superimposed on the culture into which we were born. I think this TN has some of the most nuanced character development I've seen in the genre. Each person's individual psychology is so well-developed it makes for fascinating watching and speculating. How do we know that the writers aren't setting us up for Rocio to make a complete 180°. She's pathetic and yet sympathetic at the same time. I think her motivation is the shame of discovery and terror of losing the love of her children. Not so sure about the old geezer. She seems a bit at war with him and surely the old wounds that rent their relationship in the past may have reopened a bit. I cannot deny that classism exists as a strong motivator for behavior we might like to condemn, but we must look to ourselves first when making judgements. You have to walk in another's shoes really to know who they are. End of sermon

On the other hand, we have iconic evil in the persons of Hiss and Di. But even they have subtle shades. F'rinstance, does Di have any real parental feeling for Nati, or is it all just "mine, mine, mine"? Does Hiss have even an iota of redeemablity? She must have had some hideously abused childhood to turn her heart to stone.

I'm going to be away again for a couple of weeks and won't be able to watch, but hope to catch up by reading these fascinating recaps & comments. I know I won't be disappointed. —Agnes
 

The US is a VERY class based society and there are classes based on race and classes within the races. Craziness.

Here's the interesting thing about Rocio & Agustina's classicism: neither one of them is from the manor born. Both of them are probably from decent middle class families, but not on the level of the Monterdes & Albarrans.

Camila, Pablo & Mariano ARE to the manor born, and none of those three are class concious.

IMO Rocio & Agustina use their classicism to justify their positions in the world they live in. Without the men they're married to, who are they?

Augustina has a double strike against her because she is a very poor judge of character. That's because she thinks sizzle = good character while steak = zzzzzzzzzzz. Don Daniel (womanizer), FX (drunken scammer) & Dionisio (con man) all had the sizzle of money, good times (and in FX's case, good sex). Meanwhile Osvaldo was just the steak, but Augustina dismissed him, like "why would I want to be with you?"

Rocio's trying not to be publically shamed and tossed out of the Albarran world with the revelation of Pablo's paternity. He's not a little boy anymore so she can't even collect child support. Cayetano would toss her out so fast it would make Alonso's head spin if he could move it.


 

A few of my thoughts on C.A. and S.A. lagging behind the U.S. in matters of class distinctions--here are my 2cents.

The immigrant ancestors of our neighbors to the south came predominantly from countries where machismo was still the order of the day, even in the late 1800s, when our revolutions were basically over (and theirs weren't). Their male-dominated society wrote into their constitutions and practiced the kind of class distinctions we are seeing in tns (exaggerated, of course) and racial distinctions, too--between descendents of original inhabitants and those of Spanish or Portuguese descent.

The ancestors of early U.S. immigrant populations, although they eventually arrived from all different parts of the world, were primarily from England, and northern Europe. They were fortunate to have had the great minds of our founding fathers' enlightenment philosophy and to have written into our Constitution most of the liberties we still enjoy. Our fault was in the unwritten attitudes and institutions that were made manifest and took several amendments to correct. Prejudice and class distinctions were very much alive in the southern sector of the country into the 20th Century (not just the former slave populations, but also the Chinese on the West Coast, Hispanics in the Southwest and native Americans in the far Northwest and Alaska and the Japanese).

It is still a struggle for women and minorities to change dominant attitudes, although we are making progress--just look at New Hampshire and their all-female elected officials.
 

I appreciate hearing the different points of view about Rocio and all of the characters. I agree that she is not terribly sympathetic, but she is more complex to me than just someone who is muy mala and I should automatically hate. After all, hating someone for being rich/upper class doesn’t seem any more fair to me than hating someone for being poor/lower class. Walk a mile in her shoes, indeed.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned a reason for Rocio to be dealt some poetic justice that I think would leap out at the Mexican audience - that is that she is a married woman who cheated on her husband. While personally I don’t care one bit if someone chooses to do that sort of thing, and there is a double standard there that I don’t like at all, I think the writers of this TN mean to punish her for that as much as for anything.

Neither Rocio or Gussy defines themselves beyond their husbands. They are classic cases for the feminist argument that women need to be able to have their own identity, to be educated, to pursue their own interests, to to have a room of their own, so to speak. I do like how modern Camila is in this TN and what a positive role model she is.

Vivi, thank you for your comments about respecting other cultures. It sounds like we have similar approaches. When I travel I usually am pretty careful about giving my opinions about other cultures unless I am asked to do so. It’s not that I don’t think about things and form opinions; it’s that it is very easy to offend when criticizing someone else’s culture, so I prefer to focus on listening and learning.

The topic of Latin American history and society is vast to say the least, but I’ll just say that I think that the timelines and histories of the US and Latin America are not really very similar, and I think the differences are what explain why they have so much stronger social classes than we do. For example, in addition to Anita’s excellent points, Mexico was a colony for much longer than we were (started earlier and ended later), had nearly all their immigrants come from the same country, had a long period of warfare, invasion and instability that we have never had, and fought their last revolution only a hundred years ago.

 

Anita: according to the slang dictionary moded means to embarrass. I meant it as having the tables turned (Iliana was hoping to get Iago in trouble and got herself in trouble instead). It's slang from the 90s, I think, so not really current. I'm outdated. I also am trying to find something to replace "whatever" because the word really says it all to me--in certain circumstances and it has been considered the most overused and despised word for a few years now. :)
 

One further observation on Rocio –

Mariano and Yago got behind Pablo when they saw that the puppy love was true luuuuurv.

Cayetano saw that the battle was lost and decided it was best to cease fire and sign a truce.

Rocio is clutching the cyanide tablets and heading for the bunker. Her obstinacy is perhaps her greatest character flaw.

 

I didn't mean to say that North America and Latin America are exactly the same in timelines and histories. But in the bigger picture, when comparing them to Europe, or East Asia, or North Africa/Middle East, there are far more similarities in timeline and historal milestones than with other regions. In the context of history 100+ or minus years of colonalization or independence isn't that great. The fact that in the Americas we see it that way shows just how young the nations of North and South America are.

Social and racial constructs are created for a reason-- to hold society together in a certain way. These constructs have far outgrown the circumstances that created them in LatAm, but they continue to hold on to them very tightly. I hope the Facebook generation can finally begin to make some real changes on that front.
 

Amidst all these serious points for discussion...

Operation Shine the Light has been updated. Please feel free to comment on the posting itself. If you all want an expanded version of the falling in love section, I have it all down in one place.

You recappers will or should recognize your contributions, however truncated they may be---Ay papi!! - Te doy mi alma...
 

Thanks for the updates on the OSL. It's amazing how most of the confusing family tree stuff has come and gone. Now all that's left is for Pablo and Natalia to find out who their daddies are. I'm not sure how either of them will react to the news.
 

The thanks were for Anita of course. Also looking back, we've had quite a few deaths too.

Luis- Dies as a result of car accident with Cami at the wheel
Agatha- Dies from cancer
Miriam* (and baby)- Gets shot by Julian in attempt on Dan's life engineered by Dio
Don Dan- Dies of heart attack as a result of learning about Al's and Dio's plot against Cami
Padre B- Attempted murder by Leon; murdered by Isa
Julian- Murdered by Leon to shut him up about his murder of Fidencio 19 yrs ago
Bruno- Killed by stampede of Albarran bulls
Ximena- Killed by Isa being shoved over cliff with Al
Al- Euthanized by Chayo at his own request

*Many of us believe that Miriam is not dead. I won’t believe it until we see a flashback of her actually dying.

 

Jardinera. Thanks for once again satisfying my weekend tn addiction and especially for the FF>> sparing us the details of bratgirls screen time.

Although Alonzo wasn’t the worse villain, he certainly was the most mockable. Once we find out if and how he handled signing over the ranch I’m hoping viewerville will let the poor guy RIP.

Carolina, in reference to countries with overt class systems, you said” It’s a different culture. Not better, not worse, just different”. If that’s true I wonder why there are so many people from other cultures (both the “haves” and the “have nots”) leaving their cultures in droves in pursuit of “The American Dream”.
 

Great comments everybody! I wish I wasn't at work and using my phone keypad so I could add to the discussion.

Lol to Anita and "Hissydominatrix".
 

And Vivi,

Don't forget that Isadora perfected the use of potasio as a young wife by utilizing it to off Alonzo's daddy. Though technically it wasn't a death on our watch, we did get to see a replay and it demonstrated that she had deadly proclivities early on.

Seemed to be a lot of deaths during that prison break as well. I don't recall, but could Daniel possibly be facing charges for the deaths of some prison guards back in Chile?

Carlos

 

Carlos- Ah yes. We got flashbacks of both Isa and Leon's deadly proclivities-- Old Man Lazcano and Fidencio.

I don't remember any guards dying. But the guards sure did shoot a lot of the escapees, including the real Andres Duarte.
 

Hi Foxy, I would say that about every culture, not just with those that have strict class systems. I frequently say that to people from other cultures who are here in the US. Every culture is a product of its history, values, context, and probably many other things. Every culture I've ever been around does some things better than ours and some things worse, but it works best for me to be as open-minded as I can and to try to see it as a whole and understand it without judging.

By far most immigrants who come to the US are here for economic opportunity and, in my experience, they almost all miss their home cultures profoundly. The ones that do best here are the ones who can manage to be open-minded and not judgmental towards our culture, though everyone struggles with that at times.
 

I was surprised that when Alonso went into cardiac arrest, and the nurse was there next to him, that the doctors didn't look at her suspiciously. I think that if a patient's heart had stopped beating that the nurse standing right there would be doing CPR and at the same time calling for help. But all Rosario did was stand there and cry. So as the doctor did come in, they just pushed her aside and start defibrillation.


 

Since we try to glean what we can from the opening credits, I am curious as to what funeral Dan seemed to be sitting at for a brief flash. Not sure if that is still playing as I FF through this. Could it have been his mother's? Alonso's is tomorrow, so maybe that's it. Or could it be someone else in the near future.

Coming from Utah, one sees being, or not being, of the dominant religion is basis for classification. I've seen it in children's birthday party invitations, I've seen it in hiring, I've seen it on campaign signs. I'm sure people of like religions stick together wherever, but I find it funny that these people here even divide heaven into 3 levels.

Vivi-did any people die when the glass cracked at Dan's wedding? Seems there was a lot of blood.
 

RlaO- I think the funeral where Dan is weeping in the opening credits is his mom's. Miriam was the most hurt in the pool accident and she survived that.
 

Vivi, this novela doesn't feel like the bloodbath that it apparently has been. That's quite a death list.

Nanette- You must have a very sensitive nose. I'm a couple hours south of you and I've never needed a hand-knit nose warmer, not even on a sunrise solstice hike. (But then, getting up that early and being outside in the cold and dark probably won't happen again either).

I'll be interested to see what happens with Rocio when the Big Pablo Reveal happens. Will we find out more about HER past? She didn't have a lot of money according to her and Nana's conversations. It might be nice to give her a little more depth so she's not just the shrew of a mother (and mother-in-law to Luzma who deserves better).

Kelly
 

Kelly: I guess I am a little sensitive to the cold. I hate it when my nose is cold and I wear socks all year round--except on extremely hot (100s) days. Last summer was the first summer I drank iced tea instead of hot tea. I bought this really cool ice tea/fruit infuser pitcher from CBTL.Trader Joe's Mango Black tea makes an excellent iced tea. Yum!

I'm also curious to see what happens to Rocio once the big reveal happens.
 

I don't know if there is much more depth to Rocio. She, Isa, and Iliana were all in the same boat. Attractive young women from families with high social standing, but no cash. Rocio was the luckiest-- she found a rich man who married her for love and then gave her a stable life of means.

What we don't know is what caused their marital crisis all those years ago when she then had her affair. But really, there are many things that can cause a marriage to have low moments. Obviously, the love on Cayetano's side was strong enough for them to give their marriage another go for another 20+ years.

Isa was sold as a child bride by her family to the highest bidder- an old despot. A family capable of that probably raised her with all kinds of twisted values.

Iliana is a very willing participant in her parents' plan to marry her to money, but she's running up against a lack of real husband options. Plus, she is surrounded by women who all want to pull themselves up based on their work, intelligence, and talent. In many ways she would fit in better in another time-- Rocio or Isa's era. She looks foolish, immature, and useless next to Camila, Luzma, Nat, and Vivi.

 

Vivi - ITA on Iliana.

We may be giving Rocio more character than is due, but it's a tribute to the story that it leaves space for such speculations.

Between their reaction to Yago and their current situation with Issa, I think Cayetano's strayed in the past. I think that led to the marital crisis and an infatuation with Don Dan. Once she acted on it (and/or realized she was preggers), I think she reevaluated the situation and went back to/forgave Cayetano.

I remember in the first episodes with Don Dan, he and some other guy were talking about his affair(s) when discussing that Agatha was his only true love. Does anyone remember what they said?
 

(Our)Vivi, I love your analysis. And speaking of class-ism, I'm getting all set to watch Downton Abbey tonight. Not quite a telenovela, but pretty good TV drama.

What interests me most is the commonalities among cultures from a psychological standpoint. When I worked in the field, I was dealing mostly with people of my own color, class and general level of education. The US was much more homogeneous 40 years ago. I have a younger brother who, admittedly, has suffered from severe psych instability in the past, now living in Russia for nearly 20 years, where he seems to fit in well with their culture. I have not a clue in H--l how Russians practice psychiatry and all my notions are completely prejudiced by horror stories from the Stalin era (e.g. Bulgakov, Solzhenitsyn, etc.). Likewise, not knowing personally many Islamic women—although my city is full of immigrants from that part of the world—I have no real grasp of how they perceive issues of equality and personal rights & responsibilities.

So, I take a watch and wait attitude when engaging with people from cultures foreign to me. I believe we share more in common than not, but learning the particulars is vital to good relationships. I am so glad I live in NYC. —Agnes
 

Agnes- New Once Upon a Time and new Downton Abbey tonight. Score!
 

I definitely think that Miriam is alive. Bro is hiding her or protecting her, or something like that. There are too many episodes ahead for Daniel and Camila to have smooth sailing, and I hope they don't get attacked or kidnapped again because they've done that enough times for me in the first 98 episodes.

Also, now it's time for the bad guys and gals to shake, imo. Why not drag that out for awhile? I love watching payback. I want it to be slow and painful.
 

And Biggest Loser starts tonight! Jillian is baaaaaack.
 

I'll be watching Downton Abbey tonight. It is a lot like a telenovela but with less libido and better anger management. Can't wait!
 

I've been reading NTC's Dictionary of Mexican Cultural Code Words by Boye Lafayette De Mente. In the introduction, a brief history of Mexico, he talks about the detailed caste system established by the Spanish overlords. He lists 16 caste classifications. These are the first:

1. Mestizo: Spanish father and Indian mother
2. Castizo: Spanish father and Mestizo mother
3. Espomolo: Spanish mother and Castizo father
4. Mulatto: Spanish and black African
5. Moor: Spanish and Mulatto
6. Albino: Spanish father and Moor mother

And the list goes on!

I think you can tell what is important to a culture by the number of words to describe it, like the Inuit with their dozens of words for the different types of snow.

In Spanish, we have all those verbs for eating: desayunar, almorzar, cenar, and merendar.

Aleta
 

I loved the "ewe" that Isadora gave Francisco when she was brushing him off (right before the Cam-Dan old-married-couple-in-bed scene). She looked and sounded just like Lucille Ball tasting the Vitameatavegemin in the old "I Love Lucy" series. Isa is the villain I love to hate.

Aleta
 

I forgot to mention this earlier, but does anyone else think that Daniel and Camila need a bigger bed?

I'm going to have to look for more of those class lists. I wonder what they would call me (other than American).
 

Jardinera - Thanks for all the detail, and vocab too. My favorite: "The doc doesn't do grieving mothers, we note. He turns arround and walks off with Nurse #2."

Enjoyed reading all the comments. On Rocio, she's never seemed to be close to any of her sons and to simply be self-centered. Since she had Pablo at near-menopause and it saved her marriage, you'd think she would've doted on him but I don't get that feeling. Poor soon- to-be-Hissadora-dead-meat Cayetano seems to be closer to the kids.

Though Gussie was selfish and put having a man above her daughters, she has been connected to them and was close to them in her way. She tried to get Ximena to come to the ranch after Camila's accident but she wouldn't. She's call Ximena, Ximena would hang up. I do feel sorry for Gussie. Dio takes too much pleasure in humiliating her and deep down she knows he ain't into her, but poor thing was raised to be deferential to men and feels like too much an idiot now to admit she made a mistake.

Glad Francisco is sticking around. Maybe he can help Dan and goad Gussie into using her brain.

I miss Al. I hope a DVD of him laying it out to Hissadora is in that envelope along with whatever papers.
 

Urban- Dan does make that bed look small, but they don't seem to mind.

Good episode of Downton tonight. It felt a bit like AB with all the talk of wills, distant heirs inheriting property, and uncertainty about the future of a family estate. We even got some cute in bed time with our main couple who are finally married. The only thing it lacked, which AB has, are murderous villains. :)
 

Would you really mind a smaller bed knowing who you'd get to snuggle with? Pretty sure I could handle it.

Kelly
 

Re: Dictionary of Mexican Cultural Code Words. Great book! It was published in the mid-to-late 90s so I wonder if it has been updated.
 

I haven't had a chance to comment but want to quickly thank Jardinera for the recap. I can't believe the woman who brings us "Aloco-destined-for-Limbo-lonso" and other great laughs can say comedy isn't really her thing. Wow, if these recaps are what you just throw out there, you must be pretty formidable to anything you really put your clever mind to do.

I don't have time to go into all the reasons now, but IMHO I think the Gussie bashers are too hard on her.

After watching Al's doc handle the resuscitation effort and Hissdora's "grieving", I'm pretty envious of his time management skills. No time to dilly-dally.
 

Jardinera, I love the number of and choice of words you handle in just one recap! I keep learning from your expertise.

I know I am late to respond after sooo many comments on the story, on topics of class and class bias. Whew, busy weekend for comments.

I wonder what a sampling of a cross-section of the Caray Caray followers would look like? I would imagine we represent many countries,ethnicities, types of education and such. We might even be our own "TN - UN" !

Thanks again Jardinera
 

Barbara--According to a snippet I heard on the radio, the optimum time for a doctor to see a patient (for insurance purposes) is 7.5 minutes per patient. Poor Alonssooogonenow didn't get even a full 5.

One of the reasons we're so hard on Gussy is that at this "altura" of her life she should know better. But she's ditzy. She behaves like a teenager in love when the prospect of an eligible man presents itself and that is what she did with FX and Dio (nice plain steak like Os, notwithstanding).

Also--once she has a bee in her bonnet about somebody, her opinion never changes. Remember all the terrible things she called Daniel when she'd never even met him--and they all ended with *bastardo.* (She was probably angrier at Big Don Dan when she spit those words out because he had the audacity to have an affair with Agatha, but would never even look her way.) Her opinion didn't change after she knew who he was, even though as D'Andres, the chauffeur, she liked him a lot. (Of course I have to admit she didn't approve of Camila having any kind of personal relationship with this chauffeur.)

For this and many other reasons we tend to pick on her weak spots. She *wasn't* that good a mother to Xi, but OTOH, Xi was not a very good daughter. Although Cam & Guss had their differences, there was always love and caring coming from Camila, even when Guss told her to her face that if she had to choose between Dio and Cam, she would choose Dio. What mother tells her daughter that? Guess I'm filled with foreboding for what the next 70 episodes are going to bring. I think Gussie is with us for the long haul. Camila can't afford to lose another family member in this tn.

>>For some reason MS won't let me post--it just wants to know if I want to stay or leave this page, then it does nothing.
 

Well, this time it worked.

Mena--If you want to see where Caray readers are from, you can get an idea (predominantly U.S.), by scrolling down the side bar on the front page until you get to >>Live Traffic Feed, then hit the pink bar at the bottom >>Real Time View - Menu. It's fun to watch people come and go (yea, I know I'm retired, whatevva).
 

Gussie-bashers ARE hard on her, but she deserves it. On the one hand, she becomes a mother tiger when her cub is in danger (as she practically physically removed Alonso when he was manhandling Cam), then goes completely in the opposite direction when a man is involved (when she told Camila that she would choose Dio over her) - even at the expense of said cub. Go figure.
 

I'm sure we'll have to wait a long time for anything like this, but what will Augustina do when she catches El Diablo trying to seduce or rape Camila? Because that is what it will take for her to finally see him for what he is.
 

UA: unless she blames Cam for leading him on.

Is this the same doctor that announced to the world that Al had a "little problem"?
 

Anita: Thanks so much!!! That is very cool.
 

Anita, Very interesting indeed! I am not retired, but just love data!
 

OT: recording FC's "Abrazame muy Fuerte" today. Just to check it out. Won a TVYNovela award for it.
 

Thanks J, you're a gem. I'm also late in putting in my 2 cents because I was watching Monday's tns. I agree with Agnes about the social class and I will surely look for that book on Mexican social class system. Years ago I travelled to Mexico City and at the Museum I read about the "Caste" systems that are still observed in Mexican Culture. This is what exactly I was noticing about the telenovelas, they are all the attitudes about what or who is who in the social class. There was a dialogue between Romulo and Patricio regarding their positions (Corona de Lagrimas) that says it all. I hate this tn but I still watch it to have something to hate during it's time showing. Anyway, I too am watching DA tonight.