Caray, Caray!

Like we couldn't predict his reaction to this news? I can't wait to cover his family's reaction to his jerkwad attitude about this.

Natalia won't be out in the cold because she has her mother, but Iago is going to face some seriously bad karma over this... from both his and Natalia's fathers.

Poor little Ana is hearing enough material for a best-seller in the midst of all this family dysfunction at both ranches.
 

I hope they don't force Yago and Natalia to marry. Yago would be the worst husband and father, especially if he's forced to do it.
 

Agreed, but I can see El Diablo insisting upon it. Followed by insisting that Iago go back to the arena.
 

Hello all -
Yes, I agree that Dio will force the issue and when he bursts in on the family breakfast -- metaphorically anyway -- he will leave my hero Osvaldo in his dust. What commercial possibilities wrapped up in paternal concern for El Diablo!

I liked what Abraham said about Miriam, so sweet and lovely but capable of great perception. But seeing Daniel on the bed, playing so affectionately with the baby, talking about his newly found sister, his long and better-lost father, must have reminded her powerfully of old times. That scene really captured for me how difficult the choice and challenge for Daniel.
 

I too would hate to see Natalia marry Iago. Having said that, I can't help savor some of the possible conflicts that could arise if Dio (and/or Cayetonto) tries to force Iago to do so. Of course, this would pit Dio against Amanda (nothing new there), but it may also affect Dio's support of Isadora's plan to take over La Buenaventura and leave all the Albarrans out on the street. Is that what Dio would want for his daughter? To be married to an impoverished desgraciado? Or does Dio think that this would serve to bring Natalia closer to him (i.e., to Dio)? I wonder how Rodolfo will figure into all of this, if at all. He's such a straight arrow, I'm not sure whether he'd step up to the plate (whew! those metaphors are crashing into each other!)
 

And how instinctively he kissed her on the head goodbye. He really should give it a chance, at the very least for Agatha. If Miriam takes the baby back to Chile, there is no telling the resentment Dan will feel towards Camila down the road.

How disappointing that the climb into bed was a dream. However, the cutest part of the whole show was Maja's tail wagging when Daniel came in the room!

Okay, amigas, which sparkled more? Isa's diamond or el chofer?
 

BTW, I think that Aaron would be PERFECT for Miriam! He has a bit of fire inside (we all saw D'aaron!) and would be a great partner. I also think that Dan would approve of him being a step-dad to Agatha.
 

This was a great episode. Yago's road rage was so powerful and scary. That scene had me on the edge of my seat.




 

oooh, good point, Juanita. Dio will want to take HIS chance of getting his hands on the ranch through his beloved hija, rather than trusting that Isa will eventually share.
 

@RlaO: Was the climb into Camila's bed a dream? I hadn't thought so. I thought that Daniel went there after Miriam fell asleep, lay down next to the sleepiing Camila, embraced her without waking her, and eventually left. Then again, I'm often fooled by dream sequences. ???
 

Juanita -

It was a dream, Camila's dream. Daniel woke up but, as I remember, only to ponder alone the mess that he's in.

As someone said yesterday, the previews have been misleading.

By the way, for all the wrong reasons, Agustina is probably correct that Daniel needs to take Miriam and Agatha elsewhere. It is so painful to imagine them all on the ranch together. I guess we'll see what this head-to-toe physical yields for Miriam and how it affects the story.
 

Well no matter what, we know Dio won't just sit quietly on the sidelines about Nat's pregnancy. This thing is about to get really messy between Nat's most real father figure Os making Yago know that he has Nat's back and to stay the neck away; Caye looking like he wants to force the issue; and whatever it is that Dio will do. I'm sure Rod won't sit on the guidelines either when he finds out Yago has insulted Nat and accused him of being the father.

Alas, Dan climbing into bed with Cam was a dream, or at least a memory. I saw the kiss on the head to Miriam as more brotherly, like what he does with Luzma or Nat, than husbandy.
 

I'm glad Dan climbing into bed with Camila was only a dream. I thought it would've been tacky for him to leave being in bed with Miriam to go straight to Camila's bed, even if they only cuddled. Miriam's been through a lot and doesn't deserve to be disrespected like that. If she can spend almost a year in a coma and having his baby, Dan and Camila can suffer through a little time apart.
 

Well she wasn't aware that she was in a coma and is blissfully ignorant of all that's going on. I think it's time for Dan and Cam to spread the misery around a bit and bring Miriam into the loop.
 

ITA that the Yago road rage scene was scary and riveting. I think he'll soon be on the other end of some male rage. Well, it's already started with Os.

Sorry for the typo above. Darn tablet.
 

It would certainly be interesting if El Diablo decided that taking La Buenaventura and turning into a theme park (or whatever) would not be in his best interests. It's about time for the beginning of the end of this unholy alliance with Hissadora.

She's more likely to murder him than he her. He has minions to do his dirty work but she doesn't because she enjoys killing, so this looks like an even match.

Daniel has another problem, which is how Abe would react to knowing that Daniel would prefer to stay with Camila.

Now, the idea of Aaron as a prospect for Miriam isn't a bad one in terms of temperament, but remember that she told Camila she is a city girl, so I still think she will end up with Dante, assuming there is no medical issue that will take her out.
 

it may also affect Dio's support of Isadora's plan to take over La Buenaventura and leave all the Albarrans out on the street. Is that what Dio would want for his daughter?

Of course, since Natalia is carrying an Albarran heir, Dio may see this as his ticket to get Buenaventura, not Isadora.

Daniel has another problem, which is how Abe would react to knowing that Daniel would prefer to stay with Camila.

Abe doesn't really want Daniel with Miriam anyway so if Daniel preferred to stay with Camila in Mexico it would be fine by him. The only reason he's bringing Daniel back into Miriam's picture is because he feels guilty about what he did and because he wants to please his sister, and Daniel pleases his sister.

so I still think she will end up with Dante, assuming there is no medical issue that will take her out.

I think Teresa will end up with Dante.

Since we know Daniel & Camila will end up together in the end, that leaves Miriam out in the cold. Miriam doesn't strike me as someone who could be vindictive so if Daniel & Camila stay in Mexico she will stay in Mexico too so Daniel can be in baby Agatha's life. Enter Mariano...Miriam is sweet, kind and intelligent...just like Camila. Plus he knows she's about family & settling down (Agatha). It would all depend on how Ana felt, though. Ana giving Teresa the X pretty much shot down Teresa's chances of getting with Mariano.
 

Dan needs to grow a pair. He keeps waiting for other people to solve his inability to make decisions. Camilla certainly took charge taking off her wedding ring and then his. Hello!!! Wake up call. Camilla was right a few episodes back when she called him "slow."

Daniel would have everyone in the world lie to cover up his "no-manhood" so he can look "protective" of others in everyone's eyes.

Anything but the truth is his mantra. Shame on you.


 

Vivi--Are you sure you meant that Miriam didn't know she was in a coma? If she was shot and was a few weeks pregnant and when she woke up she was handed a full-term baby, she can do the math. I agree that she has no clue of what happened during that time, Abe's hand in it, Dan's jail, breakout and disappearance, etc. I'm sure Abe and all the doctor's have told her, otherwise they wouldn't be so cautious about her health.

I agree that Dan is walking a thin, thin line. In order to keep Abe on his side and clear up his name in Chile, he has to make him think that it will be Miriam he chooses. Poor guy. That baby is going to make the decision very hard (tns don't make it easy). I think Rafa got it right and that was big of him to say so, knowing how he felt about Dan "moving in" on his territory (Cam) awhile back. It probably would have gone a different way if he didn't have Viv.

Interesting theory about Dio using a Yago-Nata boda to get himself into the BV picture. But, he already knows Isa has made Cayetano hand over the lands to her, so Yago & Mariano end up with nothing. If he anticipates getting part of the proceeds from Isa, he doesn't need Yago. Rather, I think he will step in to be the substitute baby-daddy, much to Amanda's chagrin.

Too bad about the Cam-Dan dream. Maja made it look so real. I agree that he thinks too much of Miriam and would not have done that. OTOH, I could see him getting up and going to the cabana and watched Camila sleeping, left her a note or a flower or something to remind her that he is steadfast in his love. I liked the earlier evening when she was out walking Maja and he was upstairs and exchanged mouthed words of love to each other.
 

I think that Dan would have a fit if Camila was with someone else, and would fantasize about her daily if he went back to Chile. On the other hand, he might just want Mirism "to be happy" and have a placebin his daughter's life. If Mir was with another man, would Dan be mad? Maybe a little, temporarily. But if Camila gets with someone else, he'll go ballistic.
 

Sipis Anita.I mean she wasn't aware while she was in the coma. Of course she knows now she was in a coma but for her it's like she was sleeping. Abe is the one who suffered through her coma all these months and Dan is the one who suffered through her death and now Cam is the one suffering through her resurrection.
 

Well put, Vivi. As to spreading the misery around, maybe it would be enough for the MQ folks to keep dropping hints about how long Dan had actually been there, what his job was, etc. They really can't keep her walled off forever. Abe is right about taking Miriam and the baby home--for protection. He and Dan would have to come up with some reason why he can't return right away. Right now, Miriam thinks that everything they talked about in bed--Ximena, FX, Al, claiming the inheritance all happened in the last couple of weeks.
 

Thanks Jardinera! Couldn't get access to the DVR and youtube is missing eppys 123 and 124, so I'm replying completely on you for this episode - you do not disappoint! Lol'd at "Abe, with the size of the anvil that’s now hanging over your head, even ol’ Wiley Coyote has absolutely nothin’ on you, dude!" Yup, that guys in the a MAJOR slap-down w/his sister when she finds out how everything went down.

Anon11:59, I agree that when Dan was lying to Camila, he needed to just pull on his big boy pants and tell her what was up. Is "protecting her from dangerous people" defense was lame. I could've given it maybe a sliver of credence if he had pointed out that Camila is such a straight shooter and so passionate, that she kinda sucks at subterfuge, especially when dealing with people she doesn't care about. She def would've gone off on Isa, Dio and Alonso and Isa would've def arranged for an untimely death post-haste. Since they didn't really make a point of that, I think you're 100% spot on with Dan's actions there.

In this situation though, I don't think Dan's slow pace is unjustified. It's been what, three days since he found out his supposedly dead wife and child are alive? I think wrapping your mind around that by itself warrants a teensy bit more time. And he did go to a doctor to confirm Abe's insistence about the reprecussions of Miriam hearing the news. He's assembling a whole team of doctors to make sure that he does this right. I think that little comment of Abe's might have made him pause and think. Yeah Abe's a dirty liar, but if Dan just came out with it and Miriam had a stroke, how would he explain that to his daughter? "Sorry, sweetie, people were telling me to grow a pair so I ignored all compassion, sensitivity and doctor's advice and bumped your mom to the curb after thinking about it for a couple of days."
 

Fabulous Part1 Jardinera!

I loved this: "dangerous, double-dealing dawg of a dad" and "disappointing dud of a dude." Yep. That sums up the men in Nat's life nicely. I see many tears ahead for her. I really don't see how all the horrible things Yago said to her in the zocalo wouldn't open up her eyes for good, but by the end of the episode she was still holding out hope that he would change his mind. I mean, the man spoke to her with absolute contempt, that had nothing to do with her being pregnant, but with how he sees her as a human being. He made it clear that he has zero respect for her.

Anita- If they keep revealing to Miriam all these things, like the plot to get MQ, the accident, Al, Xi and FX, she is bound to start realizing that there is no way all of this stuff could have happened in just "a few weeks", the supposed time Dan has been in Mexico.
 

Vivi--That's what I meant.

Jardinera--kudos to come later. Don't know how to express over the top every week and make it sound overer the topest.

I sure hope our little Florencia doesn't get typecast as the next Victoria Ruffo.
 

Anita- Florencia is apparently a villain and blonde in her current tn.
 

Anita- Well, me may not be seeing Florencia at all anymore after her current tn, La Mujer de Vendaval, ends. (I wonder if we'll get it here in the U.S.?) Read this brief article: http://mx.tv.yahoo.com/blogs/adicto-telenovelas/se-casa-y-acaba-con-su-carrera-actriz-042739242.html

 

Thanks for part 1 Jardinera, your writing style always makes me laugh. You are the nickname queen.

Dion bought Natalia jeans. I've never seen her in jeans on this show, and I can't imagine her wearing the particular ones that he bought her with the bleach holes in it.

Does Miriam know that Dan was present when all those episodes happened? Maybe she thinks much of what happened was before Dan got there.
 

Cathyx- Remember the yellow jeans she wore the day she lost her virginity and the day Yago told her to just use her dad to get all the things she wants. Those are some VERY bright jeans. But ITA, the bleached holes really aren't her style.

Miriam asked Dan if he was there when the accident happened and he said yes. Then she said she thought these things must have happened further back than a few weeks ago and got a confused look on her face. Then he went into detail about the kind of people Xi and Al were, and about meeting up with FX, so that puts him there even a little while before the accident, in order to have an opinion on the personalities of Xi and Al.


 

Cathyx- those jeans had long legs too, which Nat doesn't have even in her highest high heels.

I can't see the writers killing off Miriam just for the convenience of wrapping it all up in a nice little package. They killed off Dr. Tatas in Cuando and I don't think they would repeat that scenario.


 

If this were a real life situation and I were in Camila's place, I know that I would tell Dan to just go back to his wife and figure it out. Yes, I would be pretty sad, etc, etc, but I couldn't bear the pain of it all.

I know I would take off the ring (as my marriage wouldn't be legal anyway, right?) and go away for a month or so; work hard and try to set myself straight and let him figure it out. I just couldn't see myself fighting for something that wasn't really mine especially when the guy is so conflicted. No man is worth that kind of pain to me.

Of course, my reaction does not a good story or novela make, but I know I would be WAY too upset to even ponder my "husband" making love to his "real" wife. The pain would simply not be worth it to me.

Thank you for everyone who gave background information on those red string bracelets. Call me practical, but couldn't that string be dangerous on a baby not to mention it getting all dirty and such.

Thank you.

Fatima
 

Good work and great Part I. Love the alliteration pointing to the dastardly men in Natalia's life. No guilt trips for Iago at this point, but here's hoping his father or brothers will send him on one and not the trip he wants to join his father on.

Why would Miriam not remember Rafa? I see a possible brain tumor in her future.
 

Maybe Miriam's brain is not fully "wired", yet and this is why she didn't remember Rafa.

I have no idea what is going to happen to Miriam, but if they do plan on having her die, I hope she dies knowing what her brother did to Daniel. I don't think Abe should get off that easy. He's caused a lot of pain to two good people.

I also loved Cuando Me Enamoro, but the story line that REALLY bothered me was how that woman doctor (didn't she always wear yellow, come to think of it?) who had a one day stand on a desk top became so entwined and involved in Renata and Geronimo's lives. That realy bugged me. She was a one time affair and ended up having so much importance. I never really quite understood the point. Oh well...
 

Anon207 thank you for articulating my thoughts on the Miriam Mariano match up, that's exactly what I believe should happen. The only other way for Daniel to be with baby Agatha is for Miriam to die and I think we all agree that would not be fair.

I too was shocked by Yago's road rage scene! For a moment I thought the other guy in the car would pull out a gun and take out Nat's baby daddy leaving the path clear for Rodolfo but I was sadly disappointed lol I can't wait for Dio to find out about this situation. Excellent recap!

Lily
 

Sorry...anon at 0252 is Fatima. Sorry for the typos, too.
 

The road rage scene was disturbing. I wish Natalia could have seen that. She deserves better than this jerk.

And a better stepmother than Gussie.
 

Not a proponent of violence, but I wish the other driver in Yucko's little road rage incident had also been in a road rage,left his car, and pounded him (Yago) senseless!
 

Devil Daddy for a father, Yuseless Yago for a baby daddy and Gnashing-teeth Gussie for a stepmother ... ay,ay,ay ... pobre Natalia! Thank god for Angel Mom Amanda, Awesome Osvaldo and el galanaso de Rodrigo.
 

Wait til Rodolfo finds out that Yago isn't standing up to the plate. He might just pay him a visit and rearrange his face.
 

Rosemary la otra said "I can't see the writers killing off Miriam just for the convenience of wrapping it all up in a nice little package".

Anon 02:52 said "I have no idea what is going to happen to Miriam, but if they do plan on having her die". ....

I'm confused, why does everyone talk as though this story is still in the making? Do writers ever change the script or refilm after getting feedback from blogs like this? Or, once the script is written and the filming is over is it safe to assume we can stop hoping and wishing what the writers did for didn't do?
Otherwise, it sounds like you wouldd have written it differently. just saying. .
 

Happy Lurker, have you seen the ending already? Most of us haven't so we have no idea how it ends. And since this is a spoiler free blog, no one is allowed to reveal anything that hasn't already aired in the US.
 

Happy Lurker, some writers have changed, shortened, extended stories in response to viewer feedback like this blog. In this case, this series ended in Mexico several months ago so our discussion here affects nothing.

BTW, I don't think this is necessarily a good thing. But the phenomenon deserves its own discussion.
 

Jardinera,

Thanks for a great Part I. I loved your account of the meeting between Natalia and the ridiculous Yago, who deserved that slap soooo much.

My favorite line may be in reference to Abraham: "Viewerville wistfully awaits its dead-aim drop." The guy really can't win but he did get this set of cascading tragedies going, aided unknowingly by the unscrupulous and downright evil duo of Dio and Isa.

I've seen Florencia in other novelas where her hair is blond and has some curl to it. I don't know whether the current dark do is mostly extensions, but it doesn't flatter her. Nor do the high heels, IMHO. She's very cute, but her look here isn't the best.
 

Just read the article about Florencia that Vivi send the link for -- que pena! I like the actress and hate to see her go.

It's always interesting when actors and actresses abandon the form for other roles in film, for example, or as partners/parents. Often they return, of course. Sounds like a weekend topic: TN actors and actresses who leave the TN grueling routine for other venues, personal and professional.
 

Natalia's stupidity and lack of self-respect know no bounds. Still hoping that Yago will apologize and marry her, after the things he said! She disgusts me, she really does. She'll be a lousy mother, too. Anyone that would think that a guy like that should be in her life and in that of the child's is too clueless to raise a kid.

Karamy
 

Tks Jar for a great beginning.

If they kill off Miriam, I will be very disappointed, it will fit into all the other TN cliches. This TN has been so much better than that.

I agree about a Mariano & Miriam pairing, Dante & Miriam would be good too, but we need him for Teresa.

I'm at a loss about Yago, I don't want him dead, just a serious comeuppance, the bruising kind. Rodolfo will be there for Natalia, lucky girl.

We have the new next door neighbor to Pablo & Luzma, maybe she can deal a serious smack down to Yago.
 

I forgot to e-mail the HPLP list to myself to work on at home, so it will be posted on Monday morning (PST).
 

No one more than Angelica Rivera = Gaviota.
She is now the 1st lady of Mexico.
 

That was about tn actors taking other paths.
 

Muchas gracias, Jardinera, for a delightful Part 1. I loved Anita's remark to you: "Don't know how to express over the top every week and make it sound overer the topest." It expresses my feelings, too! (Thanks, Anita)

Every weekend, I revel in your remarkable way with words, and that was certainly true this time, too. For example, all that nasty "D" alliteration to describe Yago and Dio. I also loved your asides describing Viewerville's responses--e.g., re Yago: "(Daggers are now shooting out of the eyeballs of Viewerville's female population but falling uselessly to the ground.)"

I have little to add to what's already been said, except that I'm glad Eleuterio finally told Dan the conversation he had overheard between Dio and Hissadora.
 

Natalia is not in any way ready to be a mother. She needs to learn self-respect first. Amanda needs to initiate that because she isn't likely to get it from El Diablo.

This series could definitely make hay with PSAs about single motherhood.

It is about time Eleuterio told someone what he heard. I hope that gets to Mariano, who is the only member of that family who might be able to do anything about it, even if he has to have Cayetonto declared incompetent.
 

Jardinera, another fabulous recap. I started out copying my favorite quotables from your delightful prose, then just decided to relax and go along for the rollicking ride. But, I did so enjoy the charming cadences of "showered with chic from the most expensive Aculco boutique".

This TN rocks! Such a dilemma! Is it even believable? And yet, we're all on the edge of our seats.

As for the writers, my hunch is they barely stay ahead of each episode. They have to respond to the demands of sponsors and the influence of ratings. Hard to tell whether and how much the relatively intelligent feedback from blogs like this is factored in, particularly since these are shown in the states later than in Mexico. Shows get stretched, shrunk and rescheduled according to commercial imperatives. Variopinta gave us a link the other day describing the grueling pace of production on these things. I was struck by this sentence: "Actors often work 10-hour days and writers must churn out a 45-page script every day."

IMHO, they have set the bar high with this one. It will be a hard act to follow, and I'm already in separation anxiety as we the end.—AgnesNJ


 

UA- Wasn't that what Dan and Eleuterio were talking about out front of the hacienda in this episode? I didn't have cc's but that's what I thought they were talking about.
 

Yes. Eleuterio had heard El Diablo discussing the plan to take over La Buenaventura. He made additional comments about how previously they thought that it would be easier to take La Malquerida because it had an old man and a depressed young woman while La BV was guarded by four men. Rocio's secret helped Black Widow Hissadora get in the door.
 

Thanks for part 1 Jardinera. I so enjoyed your description of Icky Iago and "your life could soon become very difficult" Abe.

After all the horrible things Iago said, its beyond delusional that Nat wants to marry him. Aside from when he wanted to congress with her, when has he ever been nice to her? Why would she think a baby or marriage would alter this terrible treatment? ITA w/those of you who said, she needs to get some self-respect before she has a child.

And I'm with those of you who wanted Iago to endure some of that same road rage from the man he assaulted. His ickyness seems to know no bounds.
 

Jardinera - Muchas gracias for part 1. Appreciate the detail and vocab. My favorite: "There's one hell of an Anvil of Doom hanging over his head and Viewerville wistfully awaits its dead-aim drop…"

Enjoying all the comments.
 

Welcome to: Lily, Fatima, Happy Lurker, Karamy!! Any other anonymi also, but it's way easier to distinguish you if you give yourself a screen name.

So, I have to agree that Yago is another species of scum of the earth, but I don't think a guy like the one in the car would have been able to give a little tit for tat re: the Road Rage business. My idea would be driving with Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson in the front seat and letting Yago and his bullying type get a simple gander at them, then not having to worry about a punch in my nose. But, that's just me.....
======
ITA with Nat learning a little self-respect and I believe that nine months of that kind of discomfort and can eventually accomplish that for a person very nicely.





 

Thank you again, mis bloguis. HOpe you like the second part as well. I took longer because there was lots of decent, meaningful, meaty dialogue in some of these scenes that I figured some of y'all wanted to get your teeth into. (Je-je.)
 

Muchas gracias, Jardinera, I loved Part II at least as much as Part I--i.e., IMMENSELY. It was very helpful, both for what was happening and for all the Spanish you translated. And, of course, there was snarky gem after snarky gem. One of my many favorites was your aside "(Cara de Oy vey! de Viewerville.)"

You're right in saying that Amanda "doubts greatly that Yago will ever walk through that door with flowers and ask for forgiveness and then give that child his name," and that she tries to convey these doubts to Numbskull Natalia. My fear, though, is that Cayetonto (and/or Dio) may force Yago to do exactly what Amanda doubts. Blech!!!! That is definitely NOT what Natalia needs. (IMNSHO, what she needs is a brain transplant and a convenient miscarriage. And perhaps Rodolfo, but only after the brain transplant.)


 

Thanks for part 2 Jardinera. My favorite new term: Sexretary. Haha.

If this TN doesn't follow the standard rules, such as the parents of a baby always end up together, then Dan and Miriam and Nat and Yago will not be together.
Therefore, I would hope and like to see Nat and Rodolfo sigh! getting married. He's the kind of guy who won't care if the baby isn't his.
 

Jardinera - that's just what I was thinking: nine months is a good bit of time to think about how this happened.

Juanita - Cayetano's not going to delay his vacation with Hissy, but in the time he's gone, Dio has plenty of time to step in. No doubt he'll see this as the perfect opportunity to get Nat firmly on his side. And Lord knows he's so proud that if Yago rejects Nat in front of him, Dio will shut him down. That might actually be the only good thing about Dio's role in this mess: if Nat finally sees her dad say "you don't need that twit! And you shouldn't beg for his love! You deserve better because you are better" then maybe she'll finally give up this pathetic begging/justifying. If Yago were any other guy, I could forgive some hesitation in the name of shock and life changing news, but his reaction was pure Yago: low and smh wrong.

I'm surprise Cami didn't say, in the name of keeping poor Gussie's nerves from fraying in this uncomfortable situation, that she and Dio should move back to his house in the city, to keep from being so very uncomfortable. I know she wants to protect her mom, but she was willing to have her mom at Dio's before, right?

Miriam's gonna have to take her own advice...
 

oh my god, I"m sorry! It kept saying the characters weren't matching so I keep reentering them! Please delete multiples!
 

With the family now knowing that Yago got Nat pregnant, I can't wait to see how this plays out.
 

I don't want Yago forced down Nat's throat at this point, either. Amanda and Os will see to it that that doesn't happen. Dio may skin him alive, too, in the meantime.

So, Rodolfo would be the right guy for Nat, but she doesn't think she loves Rodolfo and he isn't from the right side of the social tracks, he has no money, is essentially a peone, etc. He may have finished high school, but who knows? That will somehow have to be overcome per tn rules and Nat's got to see him as her equal or better somehow.
 

Great second half, Jardinera. One minor point: It's still morning and breakfast time. Becerra went straight over to La Buenaventura after talking to Amanda.

Great snark, especially at Iago's expense. Love So, is he trying to convince himself or is he practicing his testimony in case there’s a paternity suit?

Was "sexretary" deliberate, a Freudian slip, or just a serendipitously cool typo? LOL!

One more time to Camila: Kick your metiche madre and the devil off the ranch. Her presence isn't helping you and his will hurt you.

I can see Camila offering to pay for Rodolfo to attend college. He may, however, have too much pride to accept. Either way he is a real man while Iago deserves to be gelded.
 

Yay! Part 2 was even better than the first. Thanks for taking the time to give us so much detail, and happy birthday to your grandson! I am still recovering from a friend's b-day celebration last night and singing karaoke into the wee hours. I barely have a voice now.

Amanda wins the mom prize this episode. Gussy gets a fail once again this episode. But Gussy is right that Cam puts the people she cares about before herself and for that reason she will never kick her mother out. She wants to protect her mother from Dio more than she wants to protect herself from him. She wasn't happy at all when Gussy was living at Dio's place and she also knows her mom wasn't happy.
 

Rod has a pretty good job for such a young guy. He manages a bunch of people- all the vaqueros. Maybe he could be refined and polished a bit more, but I don't see him as being a step down for Nat.
 

UA: tks! changed it.
 

The word should travel quickly about Natalia's pregnancy and Yago's response.

I'm really curious how Rodolfo will react to this news both in terms of the pregnancy, because he has placed Natalia on such a high pedestal, and Yago's treatment of Natalia regarding said pregnancy.

How do you think Rodolfo will/should react?

For the life of me, how can Natalia be so naive and blind? I guess she doesn't see/hear a demeaning insult when it is hurled at her out of the mouth of a viper.

Thank you very much for your excellent recap. I've been keeping a vocabulary notebook. The recappers really go above and beyond in helping us learning the language. Thank you very much.

Fatima


 

Jar--Rich, rich. The words just keep rolling out for us. Here are my part2 faves:
Camera fake-out alert!
Ding-ding-ding-ding-ding!! Dan’s IQ-ometer has finally hit top.
Mariano gives Ana the “el corazón no se manda” talk (which, at her age, beats the heck out of a birds and the bees talk, tho’ who knows anymore these days).
The table is minus a couple of plates of course
…says Sra. Isadora viuda negra araña de Lazcano flashing her blinding piece of bling in Rocio’s face.
Os is as aggressive as any little Jack Russell

Note to Abe: Reel in El Diablo very carefully. He can’t know he’s on your hook cause he has ways of wiggling off and making it seem like it was your fault.
Note to Amanda: You did a terrific job with your daughter trying to make her see what a jerk Yago is, but poor dear heart is still believing in the Cinderella story that her prince is charming.
Note to Camila: We know you love your mother, but she doesn’t pay any attention to you regarding staying out of your business. You and Dan have got to put your heads together soon and figure out what to do about her. About that "other" matter, it’s not enough to take off your rings, tell the folks not to spill any beans and pretend you have nothing to do with each other.
Note to Cayetano: Better take a bodyguard with you on your vinegarmoon. You are a deluded old sod, but I can’t recommend going back to Rocio, she’s a dried up old pill and probably doesn’t want to sleep with you anyway.
Note to Pablo: Keep your mind on your work and come home every day to a good meal from Refugio’s hands and a little cuddle time with Luzma.
Note to Miriam: Keep your eyes open and pick up on all the signals. Yes, something peculiar is going on all around you, starting with Dan. Honey, he’s just not as into you as he used to be and there's a reason.
Note to Dan: Please keep writing Cam love notes, leave her flowers and hang the stars back up on her ceiling. She needs to know her feelings for you are reciprocated. Keep telling her, too. You know you love her. One option might be to go ahead and Divorce Miriam, get an Annulment from the Church from Camila and start over. That way, you would hurt both of them instead of having to choose. Naah, bad idea.
 

Late to the party -- excellent rendition of the Yago & Nat situation. No matter the situation, Yago always finds a way to bring on Pablo into his fleebag world --"I'm no Pablo" Amen to that brother. I swear that Nat and Gussie are mother and daughter from another planet; both characters are identically naive and stupid about their men. ...

Myo-


 

Anita- Very wise advice to Abe. Of course since he's already working with Comandante Juarez and Dan, he's already a step ahead of Dio.
 

Rod has a pretty good job for such a young guy. He manages a bunch of people- all the vaqueros. Maybe he could be refined and polished a bit more, but I don't see him as being a step down for Nat.
*************************
And he's very, very cute, with soulful eyes, while Yago is so-so and always has a jerky look on his face. Of course the fact that Yago's guero while Rodolfo is mestizo may make Yago's looks more appealing to Natalia, in the cultural context. Unfortunately many in Latin America still have an inflated opinion of European looks.

Thanks for the welcome and the great recap, Jardinera. I actually have commented here occasionally, but not enough to be a regular.
 

Anita, I loved your advice to Cayetonto about his "vinegarmoon"!

You offered lots of other good advice as well, but I see you didn't offer any to Numbskull Natalia. And I can see why...she's beyond advice. Her eyes don't see, her ears don't hear, and her brain doesn't function. She seems much more Gullible Gussie's daughter than Camila is. If Natalia and Camila were the same age, I'd assume they were switched at birth.
 

Juanita--Switched at Birth. Good one. Another novel theme for a telenovela, no? If they run out of ideas, they could try this one on. Unfortunately for us, the Monterde & Gutierrez family trees have already been planted and watered and any offshoots or suckers have been pruned.
 

...and of course Natalia is 10 years younger than Camila, but they could figure out how to make it work!!
 

Jaridnera, what a great recap. I'm late getting around to reading all the great comments which means many viewers have taken just about all of the words out of my mouth.
I always appreciate the spanish translations and clever lines.
As much as I love Dan the man I have to agree with Anon 11:59 comment about how this lie is involving too many people.
Vivi, I agree with your comment about Yago's words to Nat. I'm still in shock and disbelief that she would want to have anything to do with Yago. It's no wonder that Amanda's words that Dio was a deadbeat dad fell on deaf ears.
It's a pathetic situation but that doesn't necessarily add up to "potential unfit mother", solution, "miscarriage or abortion". She's not a mean or evil person, IMO she has the capacity to love her baby.



 

Vivi, when I re-read my comment it sounds like I didn't make a clear distinction about what you said and what you didn't say regarding Nat & Yago. Your comment was all good/objective and I totally agree.

Comments after yours seemed a little concerned that Nat was unfit to be a mother and her best bet was to have a miscarriage.
 

Nat certainly has the capacity to love her baby, especially because she is so in love with the good-for-nothing father. However, she is also very weak-minded and hopefully will not be one of those post-partum depression mothers who will blame the baby as being the cause of Yago's leaving her. Depression does strange and sad things to normally good people.
 

Foxy- I knew that part of the comment wasn't at me. I think that time and distance will bring Nat to a better mental place, as Jardinera and HellaShelle said, in addition to the support of super mom Amanda.

Fatima- What will/should Rod do? Given that he went to break Yago's face when he found out he was secretly dating Nat, I don't think he's going to let Yago get away with this without a similar beatdown, despite the promise he made to Cam that he wouldn't do it again. Is this what he should do? Not really because it really isn't his business. But I will enjoy watching it nonetheless.
 

Natalia just simply isn't worldly and she's well- meaning. Most of us were that starry-eyed at her age and we tend to forget. As for Rodolfo, I don't think he'll forget his pledge, but I don't think he'll have to beat Yago up to get the better of him this time around, whatever the tn gods have in mind for him. Nat's the daughter of a wealthy man and now has a "family name" so I wonder if not all has been written about Rod's background. I maintain the formula doesn't permit a simple vaquero to get together with a wealthy gal in the end without his "station in life" being improved--that is, unless I've missed seeing the tn's over the years that do allow it. On the other hand, she's having a rich guy's kid and the rich guy could surprise Amanda and do a 180 before this whole thing is over. It has happened. So, we'll just have to chew on this bone till the fin plays out IMHO. =/: > )
 

BTW, it's been an interesting discussion this weekend. I really enjoyed Anita's "note to's" and eagerly await Nanette's H&L list.

 

Jar--How bout if I add this:

Note to Rodolfo: Don't be too hasty to duke it out with that imbecile. We know it's going to gall you when you find out that Nat is pregnant by Slime-Boy, but, as Jardinera implies, too many rich and/or powerful folks will be lined up against you. Cam will protect you, but she'll be put out that you went after Yago physically and maybe she'll have to demote you. Give it a little time, HANG AROUND THE HOSTEL on your day off, helping Amanda with errands, wash dishes, anything. Natti may start seeing you in a different light. She also has to get over the shame of 1. being pregnant out of wedlock and 2. being rejected by the jerk who inseminated her and 3. herself being such an ingenue to fall for Yago's bs.
 

I'm confused by all the Rod's position talk. I was under the impression that Rod and Nat were not that far off the social scale. No one on the show has given me that impression. Amanda was excited about their noviazgo and Yago and Illy seemed to think Nat/Rud are an odd couple in, just that when in competition with Alberran and...whatever-Illy's-last-name-is blood, there should be no competition. None of the other workers on MQ seem to think Nat's above Rud. Am I missing something?

Meanwhile, I can see Dio trying to force the marriage, because no one's going to leave his little girl high and dry, and maybe Caye/Rocio once they learn Dio is Nat's father. But even so, Yago's insults will soon make Dio homicidal, and since right now everyone thinks Nat's and illegitimate child, Caye/Rocio might not be in full support of the marriage and probably blame her "bad blood/Amanda" (though they'll prob want to avoid another scandal). I hope Rudolfo doesn't give up on Nat when she insists she wants Yago. Maybe he and Pablo should talk...
 

There are so many unmarried mothers in Mexico that I can't see how this can be held against their children.

Amanda is a business owner and a respected member of the community. Natalia has enough education to be an executive secretary. She could move up in the world with a little bit of work and some luck.

Rodolfo is the capetaz and he's relatively young for this position. He has a lot of responsibility, supervising all the vaqueros. Camila wouldn't have promoted him to this position if she didn't have confidence in him for it.

Which begs the question as to how Leoncerdo could have done that job for however many years when he couldn't read.

Iago might think Rodolfo is farther down because he is -- theoretically -- at the top of the social ladder in their area. However, what does Iago know about working hard? If you ask me he's just peeved because Rodolfo once cleaned his clock.
 

Helle:

IMO on these things lots is made out of social class and so when Amanda thought she was just a middle class B&B owner struggling to keep her customers happy and live a simple life, then, a respectable, clean-cut, h.s. educated young man like Rod was fine, especially since he'd been made the ranch foreman,i.e.,manager--a pretty high status job and no simple ranch hand.

The upper crust don't like to mix bloodlines as it were, so that's the reason for Yago and Iliana's snobbery and Pablo's differences and the whole scandal with him originally wanting to marry Luzma, a servant's illegitimate daughter. As for Rod and Illy's dating, that was a put up on Illy's part from the start and Rod and all the staff from M.Q. thought it odd and beneath Illy's social status and Rod told her so when she suggested the plot to him. Of course, her family's lost all their money now so who can say where she'll end up, despite her upbringing and fancy education and duds?

The formula usually calls for a person to marry "up" or at least within the same social status and the story's challenge is to see how people pull themselves up by their bootstraps in order to do so, overcoming the odds which are always stacked so highly against them. If somebody in the main character group comes from the lower class they have to have some redeeming trait or virtue generally that gets them to the same level as the love interest before they end up married or they are hounded out/killed off some how in the tn's I've seen over the years. Luzma's probably was getting raped by her uncle and not aborting the fetus. Jus' sayin'....
 

P.S. I do think that the M.Q.'s staff figured Illy to be "slumming" just like Yago thought he was doing.
 

UA: our explanations crossed, and ITA with your positions, especially the question about how Leoncerdo got made capitaz unless that was Alonzo's idea and Don Daniel was so far removed from the day-to-day running of things for whatever reason that he had no clue as to what a rotten choice had been made and/or what a low life the guy was.
 

Jar- Interesting take on the poor person needing to show they are worthy of being with the person of higher class. I'm not sure I'd agree on the Luzma rape story showing that. Luzma already showed a great passion for education before that with plans for advanced degrees. The rape story showed that Pablo was the one worthy of her by the way he reacted then and since.
 

Hi Jardinera -

Sorry, don't think I was clear. I get the social class issue and understood the Yago/Illy vs. Nat/Rod social differences, but I didn't get why everyone's bringing up Rod's social class right now asit pertains to him dating Nat. No one who mattered on the show seemed to think a Nat and Rod pairing would upset the social scale. Amanda is still a middle class B&B owner, and even Yago's still treating Nat like she's socially lower then them. If/when she inherits Dio's money, I could see people, including Rod, talking about the difference in resources, but I just wanted to make sure that was the reason behind all this talk of Rod's position because no one seemed to make a deal about it before, here or on the show.

Oh man, I just thought what if Rod fell for NG? I know that it's gonna be all about her drama with Pab and Luz, but I totally think Nat would notice him and her replacement, esp now that she'll finally see all of Yago's true colors (and hopefully they'll sink in).
 

Jardinera, you said of Yago: "the rich guy could surprise Amanda and do a 180 before this whole thing is over." I suppose it's possible that he could be coerced into marrying Natalia. I could even twist my beanie to the max and imagine that he could decide he wants to marry Natalia. But I don't believe that he can do a 180 on his core personality. He has consistently shown himself to be spoiled, lazy, self-centered, resentful, and mean-spirited. No beanie in the world will convince me that he can shed that personality (though he is a snake). I find Natalia frustratingly obtuse and naive, but I nonetheless rather like her and wish her well, and wishing her well means NOT having her marry Yago.
 

UA & Jar--You got me thinking about Leocerdo and his capataz job. Although Alonzzznore hadn't been there as long as Leo, not knowing how to read or write, facilitated Al's ability to bilk LMQ. If that's not the case, we have to lay the blame on Big Uncle Dan and we'll never know why.

But Leo did do one nice thing, and that was to tell Camila that no one had ordered that big new tractor Al said he'd bought and the old one had broken down and needed to be fixed.
 

Vivi, I agree with your comment about Yago's words to Nat. I'm still in shock and disbelief that she would want to have anything to do with Yago. It's no wonder that Amanda's words that Dio was a deadbeat dad fell on deaf ears.
It's a pathetic situation but that doesn't necessarily add up to "potential unfit mother", solution, "miscarriage or abortion". She's not a mean or evil person, IMO she has the capacity to love her baby.
*********************************

I stick to what I said on this and I'll be more specific: women as gullible and weak-minded in relation to men as Natalia are a serious threat to their children, whether they love them or not.They're the type that overlook or are easy to keep in the dark (or in denial) about male relatives, husbands or boyfriends abusing their kids.
 

Sorry, forgot to sign my comment above.
 

Karamy
 

I don't cheer on Dion beating up or threatening to beat up Yago. This sentiment is disturbing to me. Dion only cares about Natalia because he knows having a relationship with Natalia would affect Amanda in a negative way and he wants to hurt her. He has no love for Natalia. So any move he makes to threaten Yago is purely for show for Natalia. But I don't have a problem with Rodolfo or Osvaldo stepping in. They do care about Natalia and don't want her to get hurt.
 

Leo's illiteracy definitely made it easier for Al to commit fraud. But I think that he really knew his stuff when it came to the bulls. We we met Leo it seems that his alcoholism was getting worse. It got really bad after he killed Padre B. But before that, it seems that he did his job well, and although he wasn't liked by most, he was respected. Don Dan seems to feel he did a good job and there's no evidence he did a bad job before the drink took over.

Don Dan also seems to have wanted to help Leo out since he was supporting a sister and niece. Luzma spoke fondly about how Don Dan treated her and that it was unusual for a patron to allow a servant's kid to run around under foot.

We know Leo has no respect for women and his sick obsession with Luzma and Piedad, but that wasn't obvious to most others. I thought it was interesting that from the beginning Rod was shown shadowing Cami and trying to learn as much as he can from her, always calling her Doctora respectfully. While Leo continued to call her nina and never respected her as the boss. I am sure he never showed that kind of attitude towards Don Dan.
 

Vivi in DC, thank you for your comments about what Rod might do to Yago.

Does anyone think that Natalia's pregnancy will change Rodolfo's opinion of her? I think it would certainly be wrong if it changed his opinion in a negative way, but am just throwing the question out there to see what others might think.

Jardinera got me to thinking about something on which I've never been really clear: Is Dio really rich? If so, where did he get this money or did he get it from scamming women? Honestly, I've never been really clear as to what his "job" is.

I know it probably sounds odd and I've probably missed this somewhere along the line, but Dio has always struck me as a freeloader and never anyone with money of his own.

I'm sure someone will set me straight on this.

Thank you.

Fatima
 

I just watched the boda special sitting on the edge of my seat waiting to see Fina sing Ave Maria before shooting Gonzalo and Regina and they didn't show it! Boo!
 

Fatima- Dio has a lifetime of fraud behind him. His whole life has been about making easy money, so yeah he's rich and probably has as many offshore accounts as he has passports and identities. The MQ scam is just one of many. His businesses are purposely vague because they are either all illegal or fronts for illegal businesses. His house in town and servants, all his henchmen, the bribes he doles out, and all the gifts he gives when trying to impress someone cost a lot of money.
 

Fatima, Dionicio has money, but we have no idea where it all came from. We don't even know his real name and we can't trust anything he says about either issue.

He has probably been a confidence trickster for at least a quarter century. Nat is 22 or so and he had all those fake passports when she was an infant. I suspect he has worked a number of business frauds of various kinds and by doing that has managed to avoid being captured or even detected. He's far more intelligent than Francisco Javier, who bilked two wives out of money, so he has been able to bilk some fairly intelligent people. I don't think women are a particular target.
 

Francisco Xavier was more the mooch off women, going from scam to scam, and going broke on a regular basis type. Dio is far wiser with his money and likely has grown it continuously over the years.
 

Like a mob boss.
 

This is an incredible blog, thank you so much, both to posters and commenters.
(Oh my gosh, Florencia's wedding sounds absolutely amazing - 40 attendants - is that right?)
About Natalia - I'm still so mad at her for falling for Yago. Come on! Rodolfo asked you to be his novia!
The Cam-Dan-Miriam drama just doesn't add up for me at this point - why doesn't everyone turn on Abraham - whose 'fault' this tragedy truly is? Or have I missed that scene?
 

Traveling Lady (10:15 AM) said: “But seeing Daniel on the bed, playing so affectionately with the baby, talking about his newly found sister”

I'm sure that I'm misinterpreting something here? Who is the newly found sister?
 

Foxy-
Ximena.
 

Hey Heather. Welcome! Dan has already given Abe a tongue lashing and shoved him around, which some thought was even too much. I don't agree. I think he did very well controlling his very understandable rage. Camila has also called him out for his part in creating this whole mess. But it's not like they can tar and feather him publicly when the point of all the are doing right now is to protect Miriam from the truth until they know she can handle it. Plus now his best use is to clear Dan's name in Chile and to help bring down Dio. It's best to ally with him now than to continuously berate him about a past that can't be changed.
 

Thanks Cathyx, I had forgotten about their relationship.
 

Thank you Urban Anthropologist and Vivi in DC. Dio just seems so "vague" to me. I think he would put any person, man or woman, on "alert" mode. Agustina has either become pretty good at suppressing her "alert" systems or she really doesn't see her husband for what he is. I think he has red flags painted on his back. She has missed every one.

Fatima
 

Vivi--again, beanies off to you (winter weather ones, not tn ones). I'd forgotten about Leo's problems with alcohol. It was common knowledge he tippled and he was andando borracho even before he ran Padre B off the road. He started having hallucinations and drinking even more heavily when he recalled shooting Julian and when Fidencio appeared to him (in tandem with Julian). He probably was good with the animals, but not with people.
 

Fatima--Some women, like Gussie, don't have a danger-radar out and are actually flattered and attracted by smooth-talking men--hence her pairing up with FX, then Dio.
 

actually, while I agree Dan was referring to Ximena as his newfound, late sister, he could certainly also refer to Cam as his sister as well.

if the enemy of my friend is my friend, in this day of blended and fractured families, the half sister of my half sister is still often my sister.

If FX and Agatha hadn't gone off to Chile (and if we can imagine a FX who wasn't a total sleaze and a Gussie who didn't carry a jealous grudge against Amanda) it is easy to see young Dan coming over to play with big sis Ximena and both being babysat for by Cammy.

In the sort of ideal situation where the grown-UPS settle their differences for the good of the kids, its easy to see Cam, Xi, and "little Danny" all growing up together as de facto siblings despite the lack of consanguinity.




Btw: Who exactly was the Chilean? Agatha? How was she hooked up with don Dan and best friends with Amanda anyway?


 

That was a grudge against Agatha, not Amanda, oops.

Dio rich? Not likely.
Con men rarely have savings. He's probably running through Gussie's friends retirement accounts or insurance premiums like water. Sure he has a stash of emergency cash, and some credit cards in a couple names, but big money? Not likely.

He's trying to get control of the MQ on the cheap for a reason. legit land developers leverage their own investment with 90%+ other people's money, Dio's shooting for 99% OPM.

but even if he hit the big one he can't settle down, cause if he did, then gullible Gussie's gulliblier girls would come sniffing around for their life savings (and after Omar and the boys' salary, his snazzy black SUV, Nat's car, a lot of empty top shelf booze bottles, etc., etc. I'm thinking there's not much left).
 

Jardinera, thanks for the recap! Like others, I also enjoyed the "D"elightful description of the Nat dad and dude duo. And, your evaluation of Yago as "nasty, stubbly-faced, matty-haired, grungy, mangy-looking" was perfect and awful!

RLO, I agree wholeheartedly, Maja's tail wagging at Dan was the best scene of the episode.

I'm liking how many here applaud Osvaldo's paternalistic interference on Nat's behalf (and I'm one of them--you truculent little terrier!) even though he's just her mom's maybe beau-- and that only for a short while. And, I'm liking the number of members on the "Rodolfo Clobbers Yago" team even though Rodolfo has never had a relationship with Nat and she has in no uncertain terms told him to butt out of her romantic life.

I wonder though why Gussie can't try to talk to Camila about Dan leaving the ranch as a perfectly logical solution to this muddled mess? Oh yeah, right, Gussie is just Camila's mom and has known her for 25-30 years--so no meddling metiche pass for you, Gussie!

cathyx, "Dion only cares about Natalia because he knows having a relationship with Natalia would affect Amanda in a negative way and he wants to hurt her. He has no love for Natalia. " I agree with UA, I think we have yet to see if Dio has any real positive emotion about being Nat's dad. I think seeing how this develops will be interesting.
 

Fab recap Jardineira. Vivi, as always I enjoy reading the exchanges and your attention to details. Love them. I have been quiet lately but I have been enjoying everything on the sides. Like I have said before, this tn delivers and doesn't disappoint.It is top on my list. Like a good novela, I don't want this to end. I have a question Vi, How come Gussie keeps on nagging Cam to tell Daniel to leave. How is the Mexican law about inheritance? Isnt it that Daniel was named as an heir recipient of MQ and altho he turned out to be not a true blood son, it does not disqualify him as heir? Where as, did Sr. Monterde also name Camila as co-inheritor or not? And what about Pablo, altho he refused Camila's offer of a share, why would Camila say ok but you can have my town house instead. I guess Pablo has to claim it via the court huh? If he wants it I guess.
 

Barbara. Augustina hasn't just been talking to Camila, that would be annoying to Camila, but understandable. What is way beyond the pale, this time, is that she's been presuming to order Dan to take his wife and child and leave after Camila made it explicitly clear that she, Camila, did not want to send Dan packing pronto, but did want Augustina to butt out and let them sort things out themselves.
Chris in FL
 

I agree with anon that Dio is not rich. He's just a con artist and is currently living off the retirement accounts Gussie sold. Those women bought annuities by putting all the cash up front so it can be quite a bit of money. He has to resolve this problem of th MQ before any of those women become eligible to collect on their annuity. Gussie may end up in jail before this is over. Camil will have to pay them all back.

Chuchi
 

Barbara, I don't know anything about Mexican inheritance law, which could vary by state as it does in the US. Don Daniel changed his will to protect Camila from Alonso, Hissadora, and El Diablo and their scheme to steal the property. He did not know at the time that young Daniel was not his biological child nor did he know that Pablo was.

The will had a codicil stating that if Daniel Diaz Acosta could not claim the inheritance or refused it within a year of the reading of the will it would automatically revert to Camila.

Having just written that I have realized that the entire premise of this story depends on Osvaldo Becerra not knowing everything that his client, Don Daniel, had figured out. How could Don Daniel have gotten the will changed without explaining everything that was really up? That would have given Becerra time to do some background checks on El Diablo and made him more alert when Alonso lost it during the reading of the will.

To someone else's post: Francisco Javier was first married to Agatha, so Daniel was Ximena's big brother. I'm not sure if he is meant to also be older than Camila, but I'm guessing he would be about two or three years older.

Chuchi, good point about El Diablo's money. The money he got Augustina to bilk out of her friends is probably what's bankrolling his current activities. He probably was looking at the theft of La Malquerida as a long-term plan because once it's decimated into the theme park or whatever he intends it to be he won't be living there. He can go to the Cayman Islands or wherever. There comes a point where even mob bosses want to retire. However, Camila will feel a moral obligation to pay back what he bilked out of Augustina's friends and that will not be easy.

Chris, I'm highly sensitive to controlling and interfering mothers so Augustina's behavior in this is truly out of line. Camila is a responsible adult and Augustina's interference reduces her to a child in her eyes. It's partly malicious because she resents Daniel for being Agatha's son.
 

Vida- The first will doesn't matter anymore. Al ended up with the ranch and left it equally to Cam and Dan before he died. They are now equal owners of the ranch and can do what they want with it. Despite being half owner now, Dan still sees Camila as being the patrona, more so than himself. As for sharing it with Pablo, they don't have to do so legally. Camila just feels it's the right thing to do and Dan agrees with her.

Dio had enough money just a few years ago to offer to buy the ranch from Don Dan, who refused. I still think he has plenty of rainy day funds to support his other identities and to quickly set up shop elsewhere if he needed to skip town. He's not pushing Gussy to get out there and sell everyday, so I don't think he's relying on that cash. But it does keep her occupied and I am sure he will use her involvement in something illegal to his advantage at some point.
 

I agree that Gussy has every right to protect her daughter, but she also has to respect her. Camilla has told her multiple times now to stay out of the Dan-Mir situation. It's beyond time for Gussy to back off trying to push them out. Time for her to find a new way to help and support her daughter- don't add to her headache. Plus, Dan is equal owner so it is presumptuous of her to act like she can run him off.

I do agree with her that it is not ideal for Dan to live under the same roof with both his wives, but he and Camila need to be the ones to decide, not Gussy and Dio.
 

Welcome to Vida2 and Chuchi! Glad to have you add to the discussion!
 

Now what an interesting point about the scams and OTM's that Dio's possibly been living off all this time and the idea that Gussie may go to jail for him because of it. I rather like that idea, tho for Gussie's punishment anvil. We'll have to wait and see cuz I don't doubt they'll give us an explanation of some sort. Maybe he's not the wealthy, mean-minded, black sheep of a wealthy family gone wrong--a Ximena or Isadora type with actual money who loved scamming just because that I envisioned.

 

I wonder what El Diablo has been thinking all along regarding what he will do with Augustina when he intends to possess Camila.

What is killing me is how he could realize that women can be highly intelligent and then automatically assume that one can suddenly become a mindless doll, which I think is his future vision of Camila. I have the feeling that in her way Hissadora has been trying to make him aware of that.

As to whether Hissadora is rich already and became a grifter because she likes that, it's an interesting theory. We haven't been told anything about El Diablo's backstory, but that's possible for him, too.
 

I believe that the money Dion was using to buy Malquerida was his and the investor's money. Not sure how many investors there are, but I remember several people at the investor meeting a while back. He could be using that money for all we know and the money from the fake retirement accounts.
 

Which is why he's in such deep shyt with them.

We know he won't get what he wants in the end; we just have to hope that Camila gets what she wants.
 

Isa has definitely tried a few times to tell Dio that this plan to conquer Cami is hopeless. She has rolled her eyes about it many times along with Viewerville. :)

If Dio was only relying on Gussy selling retirement funds for his income, he'd be pushing her to sell every day. As it is, it appears to be a nice little perk, but more useful as a weapon for later use. He said this to Isa once.
 

That could be Dion's plan to get Aggie out of the way. She goes to jail, he divorces, he thinks Cam would be very turned off by what she did, and goes toward Dion for comfort and lobocito.
 

Of course you're right, Cathy. I thought about that a while back since only Augustina's signature appears on any of the paperwork for that fraud. She will ultimately be arrested and take the fall. The disgrace would drive down the price of LMQ. That must be what he's counting on.
 

Fri night, Auggie told Camila to tell Dan to take wife & bebe & leave, then she said "or shall I?" Camila from day 1 told her to let her and Dan handle it & the interesting part, Auggie already told Dan to leave. She just can't stop meddling. I know she is worried about her hija, but she is just clueless about everything.
 

viv:ITA with ed and Luzma and didn't know how to put it into words then forgot, but yes re: Pablo but it's a joint sort of tn approbational move on their parts.
 

It's weird that Dio thinks getting Auggie out of the way via the retirement scheme will help him with Camila. He's the one who turned Auggie on to the scheme, so when it turns out to be a scam, Cami will rightfully blame him.

He knows Cami's passionate and spirited. He was repeatedly telling Alonso to "control his woman." He obviously thinks Camila's a wild filly and he's the strong hand that will tame her, a pretty common TN theme in more traditional TNs, but SN's characters are not that kind (thank goodness).
 

Warning: This could turn into a rant.

It really burns my buns to encounter men who think they prefer mindless dolls to real women of intelligence and wit. They don't respect them, they can't love them because they don't respect them, and then they stupidly wonder why they're unhappy themselves.

 

Thanks for another great recap, Jardinera. As always...excellent. Sorry to be joining in so late.

Though this TN has been both interesting and exciting, for me Miriam's arrival has so far been a bit of a buzzkill. I'm getting weary of the handwringing and for me Miriam's fragility does not ring true from a medical point of view.

On the other hand I have high aspirations for Leoncio. I can't see him extracting his revenge by simply using his newly acquired literary skills. He's a more hands on kind of guy. I see a jailbreak in his future.

Carlos

 

By the gods, no. The first thing he'll do is go after Luzma.

I agree that this medical situation sounds suspiciously... Victorian. It does not ring true to the Miriam of the early episodes.
 

Carlos- I'm not buying Miriam's fragility either. I think Abe is exaggerating, so I'm looking forward to what the Metepec docs have to say. Abe is overprotective of Miriam, even in the best of circumstances, so I think he's being hyper protective now. Plus, he doesn't want to lose her trust and respect, which he likely will when she finds out his role in this whole mess.

Although I think Abe is firmly on the Justice League side, as far as taking Dio (and Isa) down for their crimes, I think he and Gussy and Dio are perfectly in sync when it comes to who they want Dan to end up with- Miriam. So I think he will do what he can to make sure his sister is happy and ends up with the man she loves.

 

Oh I think Leonicio's 1st stop will be Iz, I'm sure it will not be pretty.
 

UA - Yikes! I hope you haven't had to deal with that in real life! I wholeheartedly agree though. That's one of the reasons why when a TN heroine starts off as a spitfire with her galan and then gets all weepy and woe is me when they face their obligatory rift (so often when a baby's on the way), I'm like "ugh, why do I watch this?!" Gotta love the way SN and the writing teams she's worked with explode those old standards with their characters.
 

My mother was a narcissist who wanted to turn me into her meal ticket. I foiled that before my income level could have made that goal a reality for her. More than that I will not say on a public forum.

One thing concerns me about this series. Since it has broken so many old rules, I am hoping that Camila doesn't end up alone. She doesn't deserve that.
 

Given that the writing staff has been so stellar, I'm surprised they didn't beef up their medical support by having the bullet graze Miriam's head, or have her fall and whack her head on something or even flat line at some point and be on life support. That way she could still be alive now, but the coma and subsequent fragility would've made more sense. Anyone else curious about that?
 

UA - ouch! I am sorry. She sounds disturbingly like Isadora. I'm glad you were able to come through/continue to deal with that situation with such a strong character.
 

Thank you, Jardinera, for another fantastic recap. I appreciate what you and all the recappers do for us more than I can properly express.

Natalia is headed into Augustina-like levels of denial. It’s hard to watch, though I would say it is realistic. I have know women in nearly that much denial over their men.

I am not seeing Aaron and Miriam together at all. He is all about helping others. She is a self-centered rich girl who I doubt even realizes poor people exist. She would never be interested in doing what he does; she might break a nail. And I am certainly not buying her fragility. TN medicine is in play, but, really, nobody has ever died from bad news. That whole premise is ridiculous. And especially not someone strong enough to fly all the way from Chile with a newborn or strong enough to have sex with Dan the Man. In fact, I am not even buying the whole coma thing. How does someone shot in the collar bone area, well above the heart, end up in a coma anyhow? Comas are generally associated with head injuries. I would think she would have had her arm in a sling for six weeks and needed some antibiotics and maybe some physical therapy and that would be that.

Camila is being a fool and I am disappointed in the whole Miriam turn of the plot. We are meant to believe that Camila was a strong person, that she was more in love than any other woman had ever been, that she would ‘kill’ another woman who messed around with Dan (she did say that on her honeymoon, though it was said somewhat jokingly), that they had promised, what, five hundred times to spend the rest of their lives together, that they would face all problems together, etc, etc, and along comes a problem (Miriam), and she decides she’s just going to sit on her hands. Yeah, sure.

If I were Camila, number one, I would chose Mariano over Dan, but since she chose Dan, I would fricking fight for him. Not only would I be sleeping with him, I would be giving him the most smoking hot lovin’ he has ever dreamed possible. I would not be lying to this woman or telling my staff and my mother to lie to her. I would tell Dan and Abe it’s your responsibility to tell her the truth and if you don’t, I can’t be responsible for what she might learn from me or from other people. We are not liars here. Get her prissy ass out of my house (and out of my country would be fine, too), if you don’t want her to learn the truth. Geeze. It’s called having a spine. One difference between Camila and me is that any bitch that comes between me and my husband is going to be one sorry bitch.

And I wouldn’t be so afraid that Dan would resent me if I stood up for myself and for our relationship. He chose me. I would have the self-confidence that he loves me, we would be happy together, and he would be glad he was with me and not her. I would happily accommodate joint custody for the baby and express confidence that we can make that work. I most certainly wouldn’t be encouraging Dan to spend time with or return to Miriam, which she has come very close to doing. I do not like how our strong, assertive, confident Camila is turning out to be a wimp when push comes to shove.

 

Highpoints:

Cam tells Abe Julian worked for Dio.
Cam doesn’t back down from accusing Dio.
Abe is suspicious of Dio.
Nice moment between Ana and Luz.
Dan kicks Dio out of the study with a look.
Dan rips Abe a new one.
Vivi and Rafa give sensible advice regarding the Dan/Cam/Miriam situation.
Mariano reminds Snotty Bitch that the situation is her own doing and to take what she can get.
Dan doesn’t fall for Abe’s emotional blackmail and insists on getting a second opinion regarding Miriam’s health.
Vivi and Rafa support Dan.
Dan comforts Cam.
To Rafa’s credit, he defends Miriam. To Vivi’s credit she’s sympathetic.
Vivi and Rafa plan on telling Teresa that Abe expunged Dan’s record.
Dan chooses Cam and continues to reassure her that SHE is his wife and love of his life.
Ileana is not going to pull the “I’m pregnant” tired plot line on Rodolfo.
Rodolfo once again admits his love for Nat.
Nat looked a little peeved at Iago when he brushed her off because she was too sick to have sex with him.
Ana likes our Luz and is going to help Nana take care of her.
Ana wraps her father around her little finger—in an adorable way.
We get to see the Scoobies discussing again.
Wise words, again, from Aaron—and Rafa, also.
Os and Teresa plan to investigate Abe further.
Dan talks to Vivi about moving forward. I like that he’s not procrastinating like a lot of TN characters do.
Ana is honest with her father re: overhearing Teresa and his convo and her feelings for Teresa.
Padre gives his sister good advice.
Teresa will not give up on gaining Mariano’s love.
Dan decides to be honest with Miriam.
Dan and Cam silent convo.
Dan is adorable with his daughter.
Dan is able to stall leaving Mexico and have Miriam checked out to see if she’s healthy enough to hear his news at the same time.
Cam gives Pablo and Luz her house in town.
Amanda does not reproach her daughter (unlike SOMEONE else we could mention).
Amanda and Nat have a honest discussion about how Iago will react to the news.
Aaron is so cute mooching food off Rafa’s plate.
Teresa calls Dante to tell him Miriam is alive and he better get his butt back to town.
Rocio loses.
Sweet cousin moment between Cam and our Luz.
ABE JOINS THE SCOOBIES.
Isa avoiding Caye’s kisses.
Once again Ileana is thwarted in her plans. Iago does know how to bust her balloon.
Rodolfo intends to jump on the truth wagon.
Abe and Juarez pow wow.
Isa car buying scene.
Padre Anselmo’s wise words to Dan.
Vivi and Roman continue to bond.
Luz covers for Ana and then respects her enough to tell her the truth about the situation.
A team of doctors are going to examine Miriam.
Amanda continues to treat Agustina with more respect than she deserves.
OS GETS A COPY OF THE MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE.
Nat slaps Iago.
Rafa believes that Dan does love Cam now instead of Miriam.
Abe plays a part with Dio.
Maja siting.
Eleu finally tells his story to Dan.
Caye calls out Iago for wanting more responsibility and then wanting to vacay when he gets the chance.
Isa/Rocio scene.
Amanda lovingly tells Nat some hard truths.
Os to the rescue of Nat’s honor.
 

Low Points:

Gussie insults Dan about being Francisco’s son (you married the jerk, what does that say about you?)
Abe destroys three lives and all he can do is apologize?!
Dio literally corners Cam.
Ileana continues to show her Fatal Attraction side.
Mariano is naïve about his father in regards to Isa.
Dio plans to destroy all that Cam loves in order to get her. Fool.
Abe tries to use emotional blackmail to keep Dan from telling Miriam the truth.
Heartbreaking scene between Dan and Cam discussing their future with Miriam now in the picture.
Dio eggs Gussie on to confront Cam about letting Dan go.
Cam feels like she’s in the place of the “other woman”.
Ileana plots revenge on Rodolfo.
Iago is the most selfish person on the planet.
Ileana is rude to her hosts.
Pablo feels the need to tell Mariano that Miriam is back.
Gussie/Cam convo re: Dan: Gussie opens big mouth, inserts foot.
Dan struggles with his feelings for Miriam and Cam.
Cam realizes Dan may not be able to resist Miriam.
Miram falls asleep so Dan is unable to tell her the truth and decides it’s a sign to hold off.
Mariano uses the “friend” card to get closer to Cam.
Miriam thinks there’s no reason to stay in Mexico if Dan deeds his part of the ranch over to Cam and Pablo.
Mariano continues to be delusional.
Dan calls Miriam “mi amor.”
Nat is pregnant.
Our Luz seems sad that a family has been found to adopt her baby.
Refugio tells our Luz a sad story about her husband leaving her and her having no children.
Cam is placed in a very awkward moment with Miriam and baby Agatha.
New Girl lives next door to where Pablo and our Luz are going to live.
Miriam asks Cam to help convince Dan to move back to Chile!
Miriam asks Cam where her husband is.
Cam and Miriam’s awkward convo re: Cam’s dead husband.
Dio pours salt in Cam’s already raw to the bone wounds.
Padre Anselmo is not available when Cam cries her heart out in church.
Agustina’s jealous sniping about Nat while clothes shopping.
Ana drops the Cam/Dan bomb on Miriam.
Ana wants Cam to love her father.
Eleuterio is being a jerk recently.
Teresa meets a roadblock with Mariano.
Dio/Nat scene in her bedroom. Ewww!
Agustina is rude to Amanda in Amanda’s house.
Sad conversation regarding the wedding rings.
Iago does not take the baby news well.
Miriam plays the (sincerely) “I’ll die if Dan doesn’t love me” card and makes Cam feel even worse.
Nat breaks into sobs.
Iago tries to justify his action/words to himself.
Gussie nags Cam about telling Dan/Miriam to go.
Dan going to Cam’s bed is a dream (at least we got to see Maja).
Luz and Pablo leave Cam.
Nat is completely, irritatingly delusional.
 

Do we know if Miriam had a seizure or anything else like that after the surgery? From what I remember, we didn't get much info because Abe rushed Dan off to jail so fast after Miriam's surgery. Then he never game him any more info other than lying to him and saying she was dead. In any case, I just don't think we have enough information about what happened around the time of the surgery to know. And yes, people do fall into comas after things like open heart surgeries and such. We also are relying on Abe's word that Miriam is too fragile for the truth. We have not heard this from anyone else, but I think it's wise of Dan to want to be sure first before he makes a rash move. It would be heartless of him and Camila to do otherwise.
 

Jar: great recap and love all the comments on the big messes we're in.

OT: Did a massive Downton Abbey marathon this weekend (Season 1, 2 and caught up with 3). Was able to fit Fridays AB in between last week's DA ep and last night's. Whew!!! What a series. I love it. It's been hard trying to come down from DA world high today.

Nanette
 

Anon 7:42 “I stick to what I said on this and I'll be more specific: women as gullible and weak-minded in relation to men as Natalia are a serious threat to their children, whether they love them or not.They're the type that overlook or are easy to keep in the dark (or in denial) about male relatives, husbands or boyfriends abusing their kids”

I completely agree with you. As evidence in the parallel story with Agustina; she was blinded by Francisco’s charms that she allowed him to abuse all of Cam’s inheritance from Don Daniel’s brother and yet she failed to learn from this last bad experience. Now she’s also blindly involved with Dio who not only has treated her repugnantly but marry her to be close to her daughter and he’s salivating at the prospect of bedding her in the near future and the woman remains completely dense whenever someone tells her of some nefarious act committed for her dear hubby


Myo-
 

Wow, Carolina. Move over Martha Carrillo and Cristina Garcia. I like your trajectory for the story. Unfortunately or maybe fortunately for those who want to continue to play the guessing game, we don't know what Camila will do about Dan and vice versa. And don't forget Dionisio he's going to attempt to be the ultimate happy ending plot spoiler somewhere in there.
 

Off Topic- Downton Abbey:

Nanette- Only one more episode left to go this season-- the Christmas special. Last night's DA episode reminded me of AB right now-- the writers finding ways to keep everyone under the same roof, no matter what the circumstances. Hopefully Miriam won't have the same fate as Sybil.
 

Nanette- Thanks for the HPLP lists! Most of our characters are having a hard time right now. Since we're in the tail end, I'm afraid that's the way it will be till we have our happily ever after endings.
 

Just a little OT coinkydink. I thought I recognized an antagonista in Montecristo. It is Miriam/Lisset. She and Laura/Silvia N. are rivals for the same galan, Diego Olivera, just as they are in AB.
 

Vivi, “We also are relying on Abe's word that Miriam is too fragile for the truth. We have not heard this from anyone else, but I think it's wise of Dan to want to be sure first before he makes a rash move. It would be heartless of him and Camila to do otherwise.” I couldn’t agree more; and it’s also really unfair at this point to say that Dan should be telling Miriam the truth without first getting an unbiased medical opinion on his own.

In my honest opinion, even if Cam wants a quick resolution of this situation; I don’t think she will feel comfortable to see Daniel leaving Miriam and Agatha for her without trying to work it out with them first. Also, for Dan’s own piece of mind and for his daughter’s sake; I think he owes it to Miriam to attempt leaving the married life that they had. In doing so, Miriam will then realize that Daniel is different than the Daniel pre-coma and Daniel will have the absolute certainty that Miriam is truly something of the past.

Myo-

 

I saw Maja on the Westminister dog show last night. The winner was a Pekinese.
 

Sorry, Anita, but I don't know who Martha Carrillo and Cristina Garcia are. And just to be clear, I think Cam will end up with Dan, which is actually part of my annoyance with this whole Miriam plot twist. They are just going to drag this out until the end and make Camila act out of character as we watch the drip drip drip of Dan wavering and Miriam ever so slowly catching on.

Myo, yes I agree that is the rationale that they are selling us for Cam to act as she is, but I am not buying it. Dan had already said goodbye to Miriam. Why encourage him revisit that decision? If she wants to end up with Dan, she needs to be more focused on that goal and less on being nice to Miriam. Vivi gave her good advice when she told her to fight for him. All's fair in love and war. :)
 

Vivi: OT DA: I agree re: Sybil and Miriam. I am in love with this show.

I think Miriam should be told the truth so SHE has a chance to fight for Dan. After all, she is the legal wife here and they have a daughter together. It's only fair.

Having said that, I want Cam to win.
 

Nanette, I would have to agree with that, too. Keeping Miriam in the dark is unfair to her in many ways.

Then there is the whole problem of Camila's hypocrisy in going along with the lying, especially since she made a just a tiny little stink about being on the receiving end of being lied to. I don't think she should tell Miriam the truth, and I don't think Dan and Abe should if the medical reason is actually sound, no matter how ridiculous that is in reality. But Camila ought to refuse to participate in the lie or she is being a hypocrite.

I am also frustrated that Dan didn't seem to learn a thing from lying to Cam and almost losing her for it. But then, that is my experience in life. A tiger doesn't change his stripes. Liars don't stop lying.
 

Carolina, you're basing your assessment on Miriam being a self centered rich girl who doesn't even notice poor people. Although we don't know too much about her, we haven't been given any indication that she's self centered or ignorant to poor people's plight. Miriam married outside of her faith to a guy who was on the poor side and got himself educated and got a good job, against the wishes of her family. Dan became unemployed and they were living on Miriam's inheritance until he could find work again. She had no problem with this at all. Abe was the one who had a problem with Dan not working. He thought Dan was after Miriam's money. Dan and Miriam were madly in love, just as Camila and Luis were.

Cam heard all the things that Dan said about Miriam, she's warm and loving and kind. Knowing that about Miriam, Camila is having a hard time fighting for Dan because she knows that Miriam is innocent in all this and doesn't deserve losing her husband because of all the stuff that Abe did since the coma. And that's why Camila is torn. She knows that if the situation were reversed, she wouldn't want to lose her husband either through no fault of her own.
 

Carolina, I like your storyline development a lot better; it’s probably how I would have reacted face with similar situation.

To be fair to these writers though; they had to extend the show by 20 more episodes because Meija’s new show (Que Bonito Amor) was not ready as scheduled; so instead of having incoherent plotline; they might have decided to prolong Miriam’s fate.

Even so, I think it’s true to Cam’s character to feel sorry for Miriam first before herself which to me is insane. I might be in the minority for saying this, but Cam made a fatal mistake by telling Dan that she will not sleep with him until everything is ok with Miriam and she further put a stop on all touching, kissing or hugging; while Miriam has free reign of Cam’s man. I understand she didn’t want to feel like the other woman, but first she’s as much his wife as Miriam and two, Dan played second fiddle when she was married to Al. I don’t understand why suddenly all this morality.

Myo-
 

cathyx, "Although we don't know too much about her, we haven't been given any indication that she's self centered or ignorant to poor people's plight." Nor have we been given the slightest clue that she cares about anyone other than herself and her family. She lives in a rich person's bubble. This is a woman who doesn't even change her own baby's diapers. I can't see her getting her hands dirty to help anyone else.

She married Dan for love. Isn't that special. He didn't have as much money as she did, but he wasn't destitute. He had to spend his money on his sick mother. She doesn't care if he doesn't have any money because she is such a spoiled rich girl, she has plenty.

I am not a fan of Miriam. You can be one if you want, but I see her as a problem to Camila's happiness. I don't see how being sympathetic to her is going to get Camila what she ought to be focusing on, which is herself and her own future happiness.
 

Harsh criticism of Miriam. She's a little annoyingly delicate now, but that's not her fault. Abe is claiming this and he's been too overprotective from the start (he knows what's best for her marriage? no.), and she has let him. But she's nice. Even if she is a rich city girl, she still treats the servants like people. Contrast with Augustine who looks down her nose at them when she herself doesn't actually have money.

It's only been, what, 2 nights since Miriam got there? Fair enough to ask Dan and Camilla to chill the romance for now until Dan can confirm the medical condition that Abe claims. At least he's not just taking Abe's word for it, given the history if lies from that guy. But he's going to have a lot to make up for if he continues to ally with Dio.

On the plus side, what do we think Dio will do to Yago when he finds out what the jerk did to Natalia? Or will he just use this as a way to get in on the Buenaventura deal?

Kelly
 

Renata- She and Dan didn't start anything physical until she had made her intentions to divorce Al clear to everyone. Al is the one who delayed the process by trying to fight it, so she hid her relationship with Dan so as not to give Al ammunition in the divorce. If Miriam knew that Dan was not 100% committed to her anymore and wanted out of their marriage, then I don't think Camila would feel like the other woman as she does now.
 

Caroline, your assessment of Miriam is spot on. She’s the rich girl who married the poor guy for love but never stop flaunting her money in his face (how many times had she told Dan that they can live on her inheritance) and also if she respected Dan’s condition so much why take a multi-million dollar life insurance without discussing it with him first (which by the way was the cause of Abe’s suspicion).

In truth I don’t care for Miriam and her suffering or Cam’s defeatist attitude. Some say Miriam has suffered, I don’t agree; among all 3 she’s suffered the least, yes she was shot and in a long-term coma, but she didn’t suffer—she was on an extended sleep. Dan was the one that suffered for being accused of murdering his wife and child; put in prison, escaped, entered Mexico illegally and work under menial conditions; be at peace with his loss and find new love and happiness and now face with a past that he thought buried. Dan has the potential to lose everything; Cam can choose to walk away for not wanting to interfere and Miriam can also choose to walk away when she found out the truth.

Myo-

 

Carolina--Martha Carrillo and Cristina Garcia are the writers/re-writers for AB.
 

Anita: This is the third novela Silvia and Lisset have been in together. They were in two Azteca novelas (Catalina y Sebastián and Montecristo) and now Amor Bravío. They were also inlove with the same man in CyS haha but they ended up good friends there.

This whole Camila-Daniel-Miriam debacle reminds me of Lisset's song ¿Qué le digo?

Jarocha

 

Vivi, Agreed; Cam did tell Dan that she wanted to start something with him but wanted first to divorce Al. However, after her accident with the bull; she decided life was too short and slept with Dan without second thoughts of divorcing. In fact, when she confessed to Vivi that she and Dan had done the deed; Vivi was trying to make her see the errors of her ways for this reason (and she didn’t know who Dan was)

I think Cam has being playing a double standard game since the beginning that everyone is giving her a free pass.

 

LOL, Anita. I am flattered. :)

I think that Camila only feels like the 'other woman' because that is the way that she has chosen to frame the situation. And it's a weak, defeatist position. She could just as easily take the position of strength and see Miriam as the interloper into her marriage. It isn't Camila's fault that Miriam has a creepy brother who lied to Dan and messed up his life. Dan mourned Miriam and moved on. Her legal marriage to him is immaterial in the face of his emotionally having left her and wanting a future with Camila and promising her that. Camila should just say to Miriam, too bad, so sad. Take it up with your brother and leave me and my husband alone.
 

I like your thoughts, Carolina. Speaking for myself, the only reason I could not do this if I were in this very same situation is that with Dan being so wishy washy and so conflicted, I know my own reaction would be to tell him that he needs to figure this out on his own and then let me know. I other words, "I'm not holding your hand, Buster. Figure this one out and make up your mind". I said in an earlier post that either I or he would have to go away to get these things cleared up. With so many metiche people in the mix, how in the world could anyone possibly think clearly enough to make a decision. I like decisive people. I like decisive men even more. Right now...Dan...well...meh.

I do wholeheartedly agree with you on one thing, after the usual pleasantries and such, I would have really taken Abe to task and forced him to tell Miriam the truth. As many have already said, any woman who can make a trip from Chile with an infant and then be dying to have intimate relations with her husband, is NOT that fragile.

Abe may have joined the Justice League, but I'm not yet totally buying what he is selling.

I think you can still have one heck of a story by telling the TRUTH.

Fatima
 

If I, too, could be allowed a Downton Abbey OT: In last week's episode, Matthew told Lady Mary (when they were in bed...just loved that scene) that he would love her till his drying breath.

My first thought: On no! It's the TN anvil on DA!!!

I'm so sad that next Sunday is the last episode in Season 3. I have loved every one of the episodes in all three series, but have to say that I'm stunned that the wretched Tom is staying on and that Bates will now be "under" him in the staff hierarchy. Poor forever suffering Bates.

Ok...carry on and thanks for letting me throw in my own DA OT! :)))

Fatima
 

So maybe the better analogy is that Al was a turd who knew his wife wanted to get rid of him, so neither the audience nor the protagonists felt that bad about them sleeping with each other behind his back. (Although I do remember some people saying they shouldn’t have.) While most feel that Miriam is a nice person and none of this is her fault, so the protagonists would feel guilty sleeping with each other behind her back. I'm perfectly fine with that double standard considering the kind of person Al was, and the kind of person Miriam is. Feeling guilty about someone versus another thing that's similar isn't an exact science. There are lots of factors and gray areas involved.

The writers must be doing something right if it's sparked debate on multiple points of view in the audience.

 

Crikey...I meant to say "DYING" breath, not "drying".

Fatima
 

Nice to meet you, Fatima. Welcome. I liked what you said in your earlier posts. If Camila isn't all that committed to Dan, she should just walk away, but I don't think we are meant to believe that. She is supposed to be 110% in love and committed. Now we see that she just is too much of a wimp to fight for him. I guess.

I have said before that I think Dan has a fluid self identity and that is not a good thing. I was roundly shot down here for saying that. :)

I realized that I had erred in looking at a TN as I would a piece of literature and had approached his character as I would one in a novel. Surely I am not the only one with an English degree here. However, novels and TNs are different genres and it is not correct to analyze them in the same way. Notice I did not and would not suggest that one genre is superior to the other.

In a novel, a character's change in self ID is huge, often the central concern. Dan's ID has had numerous changes: He changed his religion to Judiasm and then back to Catholicism. He changed his citizenship (now dual), he became a widower, but got over that rapidly and remarried. He left his career without much of a backwards glance until very recently. He stopped being a city person and rapidly adapted to the ranch life. Now he finds out he is an bigamist by accident and a father. Some might say his adaptability is admirable, but my training in literature tells me it is strange, and not positive. It is weakness, either in his character or in the writing. ;) However, within the TN genre, I am not so sure what to make of it. It probably isn't as important. To project ahead, though, I think it may indicate that Dan is not as strongly committed to Camila as we might like to think.
 

I think that Baby Agatha is the ultimate reason why Camila feels guilty. If Miriam had survived but had a miscarriage (or had to have an abortion early on to save her life) would Camila feel the same?

I think not.

Miriam is not a "spoiled rich girl." She is a city girl who doesn't have to get her hands dirty, but you can see from the way she treats the LMQ staff she is not a snob. Augustina is far more of a snob than Miriam ever was.

Abe is an overprotective brother. Miriam was his only blood relative until the baby was born. They have no other brothers or sisters and their parents were dead before the story began. Abe doesn't yet have a wife or children of his own. However, he should work at getting them. However, he should be consequenced in some way for what he did to Daniel.
 

Vivi, I do very much appreciate the tension that this love triangle has created. It is fiendishly clever in that regard.
 

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I think a person can be a spoiled rich girl and still be perfectly pleasant to the servants, waitresses, janitors, etc. There are a lot of people like that, IME. They are not snobs, just clueless as to what life is like if you don't have much money.

I have seen no evidence that Miriam gives a rat's ass about poor people's hardships in life and until I do, I am going to maintain that she and Aaron are a very unlikely couple.
 

I think they're unlikely because she is currently unaccustomed to his level of hard work. We don't know if she ever did any volunteer work in her youth.

She also has a baby now.

If she doesn't get Dan back she is most likely to end up with Dante.
 

Carolina, in real life, while I know I COULD fall head over heels in love with Daniel, it is that very "fluid identity" that would concern me. I understand your point there. Fluid mechanics tell one that the wave can only be ridden for so long...

BTW, there was a very interesting videolog on this past weekend about the artist in Mexico who creates those Dia de los Muertes dolls that you have as your avatar. What an interesting story and what a delightful and humble artist.

Fatima
 

I don't think we have any evidence that Miriam is an entitled rich bitch. Also, as I stated before, Miriam has the prior claim--I don't care how much Cam and Dan are in love with each other. Miriam needs to be involved in the decisions here.

Fatima: OT DA: "Poor forever suffering Bates." But he always wins out in the end because of his intelligence and his good heart. I'm hoping to see the last of that couple's drama.
 

It would be unrealistic of the writers to have Miriam suddenly fall for someone that is not Daniel. Her entire "cloudy" world is Daniel.

Dante had said that Miriam never saw him as nothing but friend; so for her to just shift her feelings to Dante or any another man at this juncture of the story doesn't fit the storyline.

Further down the road, after Miriam is at peace with the possible loss of Dan; I can see her trying to make a life with another decent guy, but for now the hurt of losing her "happy family" would be too much for her to endure.

Myo-

 

for all you Wagnerians out there (UA?), I've been working in my studio today, listening to Das Rheingold and can't escape the vision of Camilla as Freia being handed over to Dionisio (the ugly giants) in exchange for bad debt on the mortgage of the castle Valhalla. Wotan (Don Dan Sr) made some mistakes in judgement early on, and now, because his authority is sustained by "the treaties carved into his spear, including his contract with the giants" Freia is a pawn in the big game. After a lot of wrangling, she is finally freed by means of a ransom of accursed gold. Agustina is Fricka in all this: she wants to stay in the castle, no matter what it costs. I know it's a stretch, but that's what sprang to mind this afternoon.—AgnesNJ
 

That's a great one, LXV! The only flaw in that is that Dionicio is much smarter than Fasolt and Fafner. He's more like Loge.

So..... is Alonso Alberich, who couldn't boink the Rheinmaidens?
 

Nanette, no, there is no evidence that Miriam is an entitled rich bitch and I never called her that or meant to suggest that. I also never called her a snob. I called her spoiled and self-centered, which are different, at least to me. I said that there is no reason to think that she has any interest in doing what Aaron does. I think that she is typical of most well-off people and doesn't know about or think very much about poor people (especially if they did not make their own money). She is spoiled because she was born very rich and has had a lot of things handed to her. All we know about her is that she's interested in her family, her own comfort, and avoiding crying babies and stinky diapers. That is self-centered and that is how most people with lots of money live, in a bubble. There's no harm in it, but please don't couple her up with the altruistic and hard-working Aaron. They have nothing in common.

Vivi, good point about a coma occurring as a complication from surgery. Too bad that we have not been told anything along those lines. It would make more sense.

 

thank god camila isn't the selfish witch we see all too much of in most telenovelas. all's fair in love and war is an antagonista's motto, not a fitting sslogan for a decent person like camila. many of our heros and heroines are way too "me first" when it comes to their relationships and it makes me wonder how healthy the love they feel for their objects of affection really are. sure, the villains are the ones who do terrible things in pursuit of obsessive love, but the dynamic of so many TN relationships, even the ones involving good guys, moving beyond the passion, is one of capture, domination and possession, not of shared values, mutual affection, and respect.
 

UA: but doesn't Augie remind you of Fricka, maybe not in Rheingold, but in Walküre? Of course, my parallels are a it skewed. It's just what came to mind. I wouldn't diss the intelligence of Faf'n'Fas though. They wrangled for that last bit'o'gold—the fatal one. I do see Cami being sacrificed for a time, however. But as she is the lead, she will triumph in the end.
 

We hope so.

I know that there were experiments with tragic endings in the past, so I hope nobody has resurrected this idea.

Because Wagner's Ring doesn't end happily.
 

BTW, I'm seeing Parsifal this Friday.
 

Carolina: I didn’t mean that you said Miriam was a rich bitch. Though I thought I read that somewhere in the comments—not necessarily from you, I was just using the words as a general description of her from the feelings I’ve gathered from people who are not fond of her. I don’t think she’s self-centered, either. Would she like to move back to Chile-a place she’s comfortable with and where she believes her life is (Dan is giving the ranch to Cam, so as far as Miriam knows, there’s no reason to stay)? Of course. It’s not as if Dan’s told her he’s entirely opposed to the idea (we know he can’t). Also, I thought she wasn’t allowed to deal with the baby on a regular basis through doctor’s orders. And I’m not one of those on board for an Aaron/Miriam matchup, not because I find her self-centered, but because she’s a city type and he’s not. They’re really not compatible for the long haul.
 

Miriam might be from a well off family but I don't think she is filthy rich, otherwise why would Abe be working as a cop?
 

Variopinta- I think because he wants to.
 

UA (OT): Wow! Rene Pape & Jonas Kaufmann. You lucky dog.
 

I love Camila and I want her with Dan, but I think this lack of sympathy for Miriam is a little much.

Are you (various fellow posters) saying you want Camila to essentially tell this woman, who's been on the scene now for maybe three days and just got out of a coma while giving birth, that even though Cami knows there's a possibility that she might suffer severe adverse reactions told this, her husband moved to another country and married another woman and she needs to get off of their property and basically stay out of their lives except for the partial custody of her newborn daughter?

Wow. That is harsh.

The "fragility" argument may seem perposterous, but we've been given the premise and in terms of the story, I think we need to take the premise as a rule of the AB universe. So assuming Miriam could die if told this, why wouldn't Cami at least wait until she got confirmation of this severity of the health situation before telling her the truth? Yeah Camila hated being lied to, but Dan telling her the truth was highly unlikely to cause her to have a stroke (or whatever the serious reaction is supposed to be) and die. I could maybe understand a parallel to when Al had a confirmed heart condition and she pushed for the divorce, but in that case, (a) she'd already brought up that possibility to him and (b) having tried to cheat on her with a prostitute and been found out, he already knew it was coming. Nobody thought Al's and Cam's marriage was a happy one, and Cam had made her desire to be done with it abundantly clear before she started sleeping with Dan. And even then she didn't kick Al off of the property within two days, why would she do that to a stranger who hasn't intentionally done anything to hurt anyone? Miriam's only crime is surviving being shot. She didn't marry Cam's husband. Her uncle didn't inadvertantly get Cam shot by trying to protect her. Cam's got those guilty feelings to deal with, plus you want her to sleep with the woman's legal husband? I get that emotionally Cam and Dan are married, but emotionally in Miriam's mind, she and Dan are married. The situation is delicate and the emotionally turmoil reasonable. Who's to say she's nt fighting for Dan by taking the time to work through this together, trying to be patient and understanding.

I'm also not sold on the idea of "you're strong enough to take a long trip, so you must be strong enough to hear that your marriage has been over for months. Please get a divorce and get used to partial custody." It can take longer to get a plumber out to look at a busted pipe than you guys would give a woman to come to terms with her life, as she knows it, being over.
 

HS: Thank you for your defense of Cam and Miriam. It was eloquently put and I wholeheartedly agree with you.
 

Late to the party, but thanks so much for a fabulous recap, Jardinera, and to Nanette for the awesome highs and lows.

So busy right now I can't read all everyone's written, but scanning through, there's a lot going on and, therefore, diverse opinions.

I have only one question. How is waiting to tell Miriam the truth going to save her life? She herself said she would die if something happened between her and Daniel. I don't think any of that is true, but gee, this is a TN and secrets are a fact of life. They just bore the hell out of me:)
 

Man! Fabulous thread concerning Miriam. Sorry I couldn't join in. Anyway, thank you all for stopping by and showing such an interest in the weekend topics up for discussion. Loved it!
 

Nanette -- Here are my favs out of your lists. ITSA!!!

H:Teresa calls Dante to tell him Miriam is alive and he better get his butt back to town.

OS GETS A COPY OF THE MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE.
===============

L: Gussie insults Dan about being Francisco’s son (you married the jerk, what does that say about you?)

Abe destroys three lives and all he can do is apologize?!
 

HellaShelle- ITA
 

LXV, that's exactly what I am.

If I were a composer I'd create a cycle of operas based on Dark Shadows and cast Jonas Kaufmann as Quentin.
 

ITA, Jardinera and HS:)
 

UA: I don't know much about opera and I've never seen one, but a Dark Shadows opera sounds cool.
 

I agree. I would definitely go see a "Dark Shadows" opera. Love the series, and I think the theme lends itself to opera very nicely. Do it, UA. I'll come and see it and bring my friends:)
 

No can do; I'm not a composer. However, since the original was a big hit in Latin America, it should be a novela.