Caray, Caray!

You broach a complex topic, Urban. I'm busy preparing for my upcoming semester, but I want to contribute my two cents to this discussion.

Interestingly, in all of Shakespeare's plays, love relationships and/or sexual attractions can transcend gender; however, they never transcend social order. In other words, when pairing couples, the bard ALWAYS pairs aristocrats with aristocrats and common folk with common folk. He makes a clear distinction between the classes.

Regarding modern-day examples of this class distinction, race comes to mind. I teach at a four-year college in the deeeeep South, and I often have this discussion with my students. Inevitably, my African-American students recount experiences of social marginalization because of their race. What's worse, almost all of my male African-American students have experienced some type of racial profiling by local police. Usually, this involves having to exit a vehicle and stand spread-eagled when pulled over for something trivial like speeding. Moreover, I have had several African-American friends share stories with me about being passed over for promotions when they were highly qualified for those positions. And finally, my African-American son-in-law and white daughter (both educators) have actually been refused service by a cab driver (he was South American, for what it's worth)!

Therefore, in my region of the U.S., which, granted, is further behind socially than other places in the U.S., to the manor born means 'born white,' and yes, it does matter.

In our tn, we see the class divide: the bourgeoisie vs. the proletariat. We also see the substandard medical 'bed-side manner' Jen/proletariat receives. She receives far more condescending and dispassionate treatment than Fanny or Isabruja ever would.

Back to work . . .
 

In the places I've lived, while racism certainly isn't dead I don't see race as the biggest class distinction, per se, nor is having been born wealthy, although those factors both contribute to what I do think is the dividing line, which is how one presents oneself.

It seems that one is considered more upper class based on speaking, dressing, and grooming in a polished (but not necessarily formal) manner. Some accents and dialects and styles of voice modulation are more associated with poverty and bad neighborhoods, and people who speak that way can have a hard time gaining respect even if they are smart.

People who are very overweight also tend to be treated as lower status.

I think there is still some class distinction based on family background in that personal connections and money make a big difference in getting jobs and education, but I also think there is more potential for mobility than in a place like Telenovelaland Mexico. Not many people are going to actually look into your family background, unless your family is really famous. So if you move to a new place, if you can present yourself as higher status than whatever you were born to, you can fit in. It's not likely your new friends are going to be like, "What? Your dad is a garbageman?! You can't be friends with us." At least not among any of the sort of people you'd want to be friends with anyway.
 

I work for one of the top medical schools/hospitals in the country. If you let our Leaders tell it, all of our medical professionals are geniuses and worthy of their 6 figure salaries. Yet these institutions are run by the nurses and support staff who only make a small fraction of what the others are given. Professional staff recieve big bonuses, expense accounts, international trips, opportunities for their children, etc. etc. Racially, the leadership is predominately white and the MDs are mostly white, European and Asian with very few latinos and people of color. Leadership and MDs almost always own their homes, while in my estimate, support staff are usually renters. When you consider that like attracts like, a small fraction (MD's) live in homes with nearly 1/2 a mil earrnings while the others with their spouses barely make 100k. Simply put, it's impossible to thrive according to the standards they set. Income and status = class? And i'm only speaking of the medical profession. Being at the top, our institutions are intricately linked to politicians (legislation) and business leaders. And all of these representatives pretty much fit the same profile - wealthy, doctors, layers, or businessmen. Some old money, some new, but still the same class distinctions.
 

Ok, I am from a place where France was the colonial master for centuries; therefore, class is very prominent in our culture. Where your family comes from, your family name, school, manner of speaking, profession are of the utmost importance. The first question a family asked of a potential suitor is "what;s your last name? then "what does your father does? All middle class families have maids, chauffers, and other servants. My family had nannies for all the children, maids whose only duties was to wash clothes, and another was the cook. Were we rich? Not by US standards but in my country, yes. When I watched novelas and servants are everywhere it is familiar territory for me. I know that world. When we immigrated to the US our world went upside down but we got use to this way of life. It was more difficult because we are black so in the US it was complete culture shock to see how African Americans were seen and treated by the white
population. So in my country it was class/money that made you "different" because everyone was black whereas in the US we saw it was our skin color that made us less than more than anything else even though being a WASP and a
Mayflower descendant counts.
Romy
 

Great topic, UA, for novela-land members and watchers.
It is sure the case that social class barriers are hard to overcome in the end in novelas, though it happens. Often the poor girl who gets the rich guy turns out to be an heiresst herself - go figure!

I have so many examples of how the manor born still matters from teaching sociology for a hundred years. But I will share an example from the lives of my kids, who are young adults and find that "trust fund" babies still rule the roost in the media world. Talent certainly matters, but the number of Ivy League kids and sons and daughters of the rich and famous claiming top internships, etc., is amazing.

I think that fields of science and technology are two areas where talent and education matter, in part because these are viewed as difficult realms that many people -- rich and poor -- avoid.

Ecuador -- what do you teach? Sounds like an interesting place to work. The students always make the experience good for the teachers.
 

I'm a first-generation American and a first-generation college graduate. It took four years out of college to find my calling, which was advertising. The agency I started in was run by men who came up in the world in the days of Mad Men. None of them had advanced degrees and none came from wealth.

However, the great love of my life was a Mayflower descendant. Although he didn't care about it his mother did. You all know how that ended.
 

I wouldnt rule out science as a field with class distinctions. The NIH spends 25+ billion in science research. Top researchers earn millions and there are many. Politics dominate everything. And since we're talking about class, we cant ignore that predominately white schools receive better funding and resources than others.
 

I meant to say that predominately white schools receive better funding and resources (for the study of science and research) than others.
 

Mati - I teach literature, and I have AMAZING and BRILLIANT students . . . even though my college is not Ivy League.

Urban - You're too good for Mr. Mayflower, Jr.! Trust me, you do not want THAT MIL. And kudos to you for pursuing your advanced degree as a first-generation American. I know you made your parents proud.

Romy - I wish you never had to experience racial discrimination when you immigrated here. I like to think the U.S. is heading toward the right direction, however slowly, in race relations. Although the recent events in Ferguson make me question my optimism.

Anon - Yes, I agree. Schools in predominantly white, affluent communities, where most of the students' parents have university degrees, receive the big bucks from the DOE. I taught for years in a high school designated by the DOE as a poverty culture and a prison culture. We operated with a paltry budget, and we received the lowest salaries in our state. It's very frustrating.
 

Hmmm, in my country, I think, there are 2 main opposite worlds: the city and the village. The main problem is that people from the village almost often poor, no good schools (it's a shame, but it's true), and ukrainian language (it's a shame but not far ago you can be ignored in many big cities only because you use ukrainian language).
From the USSR past we almost haven't big and famous families. All our milliners got their money in 90's, so their children are still young. So no political or economical elite. But, of course, money rules the world :)))
Alegria
 

In a telenovela my family would be considered "poor" and, presumably, remain marginalized. However, due to hard work and many sacrifices by THE WHOLE FAMILY, my son has taught at Cornell University and my daughter is a professor at Harvard. And yet, they have still experienced racial profiling (I'm Mexican and their father was black) and continue to do so. Again, the classism they have experienced has been closely tied with racism.
 

Thank you Ecuador Bound. It took me a long time to get racism, lol. or example being followed in stores I thought they were being solicitous and helpful until I was told the real reason, lol. When I was ignored in stores I thought the clerk was busy and so on. I am fine.
Romy
 

Madame Mayflower would have been the suegra from hell. Not only was she a possible member of the DAR she grew up in the south.

Which meant that to her I was White Trash. She was either too polite or too hypocritical to say so out loud.

In the end she got what she wanted. I wonder sometimes if her son ever had any pleasure in his life.