Caray, Caray!

Gracias, Joni, and good work.

Ivana's fixation on MD's baby is truly sick and I think we can blame Susanna for most of Ivana's sickness. She wore down Ivana's self-esteem over the years and I hope she pays for this. That Ivana never saw a shrink as an adult is all on herself, though.

I'm wondering now whether the truth will kill Maleny or Ursula will for uncovering it.

More later.
 

Thank you JdesdeNYC. Very concise and thorough. I missed that part when MD told Isela that she was going to tell Max the truth about cancer, all I caught was that she was going to tell him the truth, I figured it was about the affair. So when she told him about the cancer instead, I was shocked. Definitely her family needs to know this information.

What on earth does Ivana know about Hector's death and how does she know it? That came out of left field. At first I thought she was referring to the secret that they aren't bankrupt. Hmm...

Claudio is sinking even lower. Now he's going to help prove that MD is Dan's spurned exlover. Your sons will never talk to you again after you do that buddy.
 

Awesome! A recap from JdesdeNY/Joni. Fabulous recap.

Cathyx- I too felt that Ivana was first referring to the inheritance (which may indeed be related to Hector), but when she saw Mal react immediately to thinking it was about her father's murder, Ivana just went with it. Then tried to get that info herself from Medina.

I also don't think Adrian figured out who could have been the killer. He was saying the missing pages, with the height and trajectory info, would be able to indicate who the killer is. That's what Medina has. Maybe the should break into his house and try to find it.

Good for Gerry for telling Ivana he doesn't want to be her friend and support her crazy, and for MD for telling Max about Alma's cancer.

Looks like it's Christmas. Everyone was decorating. I'm sure the holiday will affect a lot too.
 

Is Corina perhaps not Corina's real name? The nickname she gave MD, Mil Amores, makes it seem like she's a stripper or something. In the voicemail message she left MD, she really should have given her some useful info.

Claudio with one breath declaring that they all know Dan raped MD, and the next plan to paint MD as the jilted lover trying to get revenge, disgusted me. I hope his sons never speak to him again when they find out.
 

I wondered about that, too, but I have a theory.

Ivana could be calling Medina's bluff. This is a useful business skill. She has more money than the Santibanez clan and could protect him from them.

I am guessing she is alienating Gerry deliberately to protect him. This is risky because she could lose him later for not having been up front about what she's been doing. Until this point he was the most positive person in her life.

She could also be playing Maleny, which is the most dangerous move of all. I don't know whether she has a hint of the extent of Maleny's mental illness. The only people who do are Ursula and Arango, both of whom know how to use it against her, at least for the moment. Claudio knows she's sick and that he has some responsibility for it, but even he hasn't seen her at her worst. Ari comes close because she almost shot him, but I don't think he knows about the baby kidnap plot.
 

So Vivi, you're saying that Ivana pretended to have info about the death because she thought she could get the info from Medina so that she had leverage to get the baby? That makes sense. And she probably did mean that the secret she knew was about the family not being bankrupt, but realized that Mal wants info about her dad's killer would get her what she wants quickly.

And Max said that Corina is in a juvenile detention center? So she's under 18?

I noticed when Ari came to Bustamonte's house, he touched the leaves of a pointsettia, and I figured when they filmed this, it was at Christmas time. Then the decoration that Doris brought to Espy confirmed it.
 

I think Max checked the jails and the juvenile centers and didn't find Corina.

Cathyx- Yep. That's what I think happened with Ivana. She realized she'd get more leverage with info on Hector's murder when she saw Mal's reaction, and ran with it.
 

If I were Ivana I would be holding onto the financial secret a bit longer. That is a nuclear bomb that I think she is saving for when Danny-Boy gets out of the slammer.

While she likely doesn't know the extent of Maleny's mental illness, she certainly must see that Maleny is completely useless in terms of working, making money, or taking any kind of responsibility. The revelation that they were never broke would set both Maleny and Danny-Boy off and they would turn on Ursula and Arango. This can only end in total destruction. If this happens before her divorce comes through Ivana could inherit the entire Santibanez fortune if she has custody of the baby.
 

Can't Max look up the case that Dan has against Corina to find her? That should be allowable, he could be acting as her lawyer.

I'm finding this baby stealing a bit of a stretch for this TN. It's been so good about being realistic and well thought out, but Ivana only wanting the baby that comes from the husband that she despises and wants to divorce is a bit idiotic.
 

Wow Joni, what an awesome piece of prose

"Leo doesn't quite understand their friendship--honestly, neither do I"

"Isela skillfully deflects"

"sorry to be so harsh (cruda)"

Puff goes my belief Ivana would react differently if she knew Usurla and Dan tried/would kill her.

Cathyx I thought for sure MD was gonna tell Max about the affair and shocked as well. At least she told him about the cancer but will she tell him how she knows and why she was there speaking to Isela in the first place. I remain of the opinion MD should tell Max all of the truth.

Vivi, I could have strangled Claudio too but a much used rape defense. Claudio cares not one wit for anything but his pecker.

Though it may be bluff on Ivana's part I hope when she had Ursula investigated before there is something she discovered. I didn't think she was aware Usurla and Dan tried to kill her but she was and held that close so please, have some goodies, please.

 

Cathyx, I'm with you on the stupid baby stealing thing but it depends on her priority. Is it Dan's child or is it revenge against Dan and Usurla. Ivana's attorney's are knee deep in Dan's defense and possible she gets a report of every conversation. Ivana may be playing a long game and never intends to keep the child even if Usurla and Dan successful in ripping it from MD's hands.
 

Well, if Dan is the baby's father (and all indications are that he is), and the army of expensive lawyers and a powerful judge get him out of jail (very likely), and Ursula finds a way to get MD out of the picture (I have no doubt she can manage it), then it seems pretty easy for the Santibanez to get MD's baby. Doesn't seem far fetched to me.

Ivana has some crazy malfunction that existed before the curtain rose on this tale. And her obsession with MD is some misplaced jealousy about MD having what she wants- pretty, slim, talented in clothing design, loving family, men who love her, and now the baby Ivana should have had-- a baby who will share half the DNA of the baby that would have been Ivana's and probably looks similar to what Ivana's baby would have looked like since they were siblings.
 

Joni/JdesdeNYC here. Thanks for the love guys. I'll be doing all the Fri recaps until the fin on this one.

Totally agree with Tofie that Claudio is only looking out for his pecker. I actually think MD need not tell Max about the affair because that's so explosive and she hasn't seen them together. She has seen actual evidence about the cancer diagnosis and not telling her future husband she knew his mother was going to die in under a year is pretty much an unforgiveable betrayal. I actually think ending the affair is something Claudio and Ise should do on their own. Claudio needs to know from Ise that Alma has cancer so they can end the affair.

For me, the affair, even though Ise admitted is still rumor and speculation and MD should stay out of anything in that territory.
 

Tofie, I'm hoping that Ivana is playing the long game too. That she has some major plan in place to get back at everyone who is doing wrong, and to restore the old Ivana again. Jerry would be so happy, and so would we. That's the only way I will believe this plot point has any legitimacy.


 

The next question about Ivana is this: How much does she care about what the public will think of her when all this merde hits the fan? She has to care about how this will affect her company.

MD and Max should get married yesterday, before Danny-Boy walks out of that prison. There is no DNA test yet to demonstrate paternity of MD's baby. If they wait too long he could come charging up the aisle of the church to stop the ceremony.

As previously pointed out, when Max finds out that Claudio suggested the jilted-lover-gets-revenge-with-false-rape-accusation scenario (probably using all those cell phone photos as evidence) Claudio will be dead to him and to Leo. Possibly to Alma as well.
 

Thanks JdesdeNYC! Superb recap; I love the subtitles and structure.

I'm with Vivi on the take on Ivana - she wants a baby, and she wants revenge against those she thinks have wronged her. Taking MD's baby accomplishes all of those tasks and further soothes her broken heart because of the DNA connection to her own child. I don't think she is trying to protect Gerry so much as she's getting rid of her pwn personal Jiminy Cricket.

While Claudio is horrible, his descent from incompassionate, unyielding citizen to lying, cheating scum has been well navigated. I won't feel bad for him when it all comes crashing down.

Isela plays the game way. It's ironic; she probably could've made a good lawyer...for bad people...had she actually been interested in the law rather than Claudio. The way she played MD was just shy of masterful, and, not knowing her motivations (and also, just being MD), MD didn't hit back effectively. She blew up everyone's life because she's weak and scared and it was awful, but at least she was trying to protect people. It was basically a matter of life or death, no matter how much it made people (including me want to strangle her). She should've rebutted with that and asked Isela who she's trying to save. (Though given Josefa's unstable mind...)

I too was surprised MD told Max about the cancer (and not the affair). I still think she should tell him her suspicions and the rumors circulating about his dad and Isela, keeping in mind that there is no proof. It's good that she told him about Alma's cancer, but I hope she adds that Alma doesn't want him to know and doesn't even know that she knows.

Man, Isela really gets all of everyone's secrets!

 

Bet the first thing out of Max's mouth, should MD bring up the affair, got any proof? Well, Isela admitted it to MD. I don't see how she can apologize for withholding things, him continue to forgive, lay the cancer thing on him and just stop. She will still be withholding things from him and breaking her promise to him again. They could both agree to drop it since Alma is ill or Max may go to Claudio and tell him to zip it up. I'm beginning to think since MD knows Max will always forgive her anything, she hasn't enough respect for him to tell him everything. This is gonna come out, and here is MD, Isela and Alma working on the wedding, Isela living in the house and daddy and Isela banging away waiting for the day Alma drops dead.

If I were Ivana's publicist I would say that she assumed Dan was a stand up guy but will have no part of a rapist and his mothers schemes, here's the divorce papers and here is proof they are still at it so you reporters outta poke around there awhile, whew, Ivana dodged a big ole bullet.

 

Thank you Joni, or UA for this up front and in
Your face recap.
Its so good to see someone finally tell the
TRUTH!!! In this tn. MD don't have to tell max about the Affair, that rotten explosion will happen soon enough. Alma needs her family to just rally around her. Isela should just stay away from the judge So she can help Alma get through the hard Time thats comin. she's got a chance to redeem herself and it would be good for her if she could forget about her heated lady parts and help this woman instead of stabbing her in the heart with her no-account husband.
Ivana has just gone to hell, I don't blame jerry
For walkin out in her, cuz this will not well for
Her. and she can avoid the heartache she's going to experience but for some reason she's got it in her head that she's going to take this woman's baby. And even if the frozen witch(Ursula) does manage to get the baby she's not going to keep him or her because the truth always comes out in these tns. How Many more epys we got? Nevermind I'll just concentrate on the stuff at hand. Ari should Take a walk in the desert and keep walkin. Leave doris & orlando in peace. Maleny is just pitiful.if I were her I get what little bit of money I got and I would just leave that place, leave those people to their own destruction. But well, she can't do that because she's a part of the problem.
 

Isela's conscience may have returned in the doctor's office but when she got back to the house or to the office or wherever she went and started sucking face with the judge her conscience flew out of there. Both of them look like they have an eternal pucker on their face. That's why I thought she might have been his daughter when they first started showing them. And I'm thinking probably theres a secret. But no shes his side sugar.
 

Unless Ivana also lost her ovaries, couldn't she just use a surrogate? Is that legal in Mexico?
 

Yeah UA I wondered that too. I figure she either had a total hysterectomy or Gerry (or someone) just hasn't brought it up yet as a possibility. Which is super weird now that I think about it. After having an emergency hysterectomy, shouldn't she have gotten medical counseling? Even if that first doc and Medina were both crappy, what about when she was in the hospital after the near drowning?

Ari's new rise to prominence as a villain with something against MD makes me want to kick him in the balls. But has anyone else noted the huge difference in his decor vs that of everyone else. He really used the gifts he got from Mal (and others?) to step up his apartment game.
 

Ari also has a car and obviously gets expensive haircuts and uses hair products. He's obviously doing better than most in the hood.
 

I think Ivana had a full hysterectomy. As for what the doctors told her-- we were not privy to the conversations with the doctors that she had after the near drowning, but we know that is when she actually finally found out she had had a hysterectomy. We don't know all else that those docs told her, but obviously enough for her to figure out Ursula, Medina, and Dan nearly killed her with the medications she was on.
 

Im sorry for her, she has no support now. And the support she had walked out on her, cuz She in crazyville again. She should have learned From that but No. She'll follow ursula and the Gang to hell, in the hope that they'll steal someones child and give him or her to her.
No wonder gerry left her. And aunty sue is no
Help. poor Ivana, she don't know what the hell she doing.

 

It's too bad Isela isn't a little less self-involved. She seems to really be good for Alma (who doesn't apparently have any other friends she can turn to), and it looked like she really cared about Alma at the doc's office. And she could use a mother figure since Josefa is a failure. She's just too immature to maintain her concern for very long. Think they'll let Isela and Claudio be a couple once Alma is gone? If so, I hope all their friends abandon them except Josefa. It's be a good punishment.

Ivana should have gotten counseling. Jerry's help was nice and all, but she needed a pro. Still does. Maybe she and Maleny could get a group discount on a shrink. Lord knows they could both use it.

Kelly
 

Thanks, Joni. Terrific recap.

I don’t fault MD for telling Max only about Alma’s cancer. In the scheme of things, Claudio’s boinking Isela pales in comparison to Alma’s possibly terminal illness. I think MD is being thoughtful, giving Max only one devastating dose of bad news at a time.

Don’t remember who said it, but Max following the trail of whom Dan pressed charges against does seem like the way to find Corina. I didn’t realize she was a juvenile. If she’s under 18, seems like the authorities should have contacted her parents or a guardian.
 

Maria Dolores has zero proof of an affair, which is why she should've kept her mouth shut with both Claudio & Isela.

The only person who has proof of a Claudio/Isela affair is Orlando, who saw them kissing. Everything else is hearsay and speculation, and both Claudio & Isela will deny it.

There is proof of Alma's illness so MD was right to tell Max about that. And if she wants to bring up the affair to Max, just suggest to him that something's funny about Claudio & Isela and maybe Max needs to observe the situation, and that she can't charge them with having an affair with no proof...but something's not right with them.

Ivana is like a child who wants another child's toys. I blame Susanna for Ivana's low self esteem but not for Ivana conspiring to take away another woman's baby because she wants it. Ivana's a grownup. She doesn't get to have someone else's CHILD because she wants it.


 

Thank you Joni for your polished recap, I dont know if that was your first time as a recapper, but you join ranks with the other recappers. Amazing. UA and thank you for posting it.

I am glad MD told Max about Alma's cancer. I think she put herself at disadvantaged position by letting Claudio know she was aware of affair, he just ended up paying her back by helping Dan. At the same time, it is not her business or have any proof. But doesn't seem right for her to look the other way either, because it is not in her not speak with isela and try to help her get back to being the nice girl she used to be. So I share Anon207's strategy to alert Max and say something is peculiar with C and Ise, get him to put his radar up and he will figure it out. That way there are no unfounded accusations or be repeating rumors. Yes, I think anon is right on.with how MD should handle the affair business in a subtle way, where Max starts paying attention and then asks his father.

Ivana, has 2 sides. I know she has a good side, bur then she goes to other dark side, i do like her, but it is just plain crazy to be party to something so evil, like taking a child that is tirn from mothers arms, or having mother killed. Comon Ivana, she really needs to be read riot act.

Vivi, I shoulda known that you also took notice of Ari's contemporary and stylish bachelor pad.
I always said it is probably only apartment in the hood that is that nice. Ari is weazley, but he is meticulously groomed i am certain he smells great. Funny how Dan is stinky, unshaven, picks toes, he gottaa have birdcage bottom breathe, and looks verryyy scuzzy even though he's the rich one. Ari looks like that Carly Simin song, "you walked into the party...liike yiu were walking into a yacht." Ok sorry, got carried away. I hated him for beating Orly and lots of othr things, but i am fool for well groomed and good smelling men. Throw on a fine leather jacket mama mua. Not speaking about Ari in specific.
Ava
 

Thanks to both who pointed out about Ari's apartment. That is an anomaly in that area and it's consistent with his personality and appearance. It is also supremely ironic that Danny the Weasel looks so scuzzy and probably smells like an alley behind a dive bar at least half the time. Makes me wonder why Ursula didn't do something about that ages ago because this doesn't look like anything she'd want to put up with.

As for Isela, I think she is past the point of no return. She may have pangs of guilt about the things she's done but once the others find out she will be done in that hood. She will need to go somewhere else and start over if she survives this tale.

I also agree that since MD can't prove the affair, she was better off just telling Max about the cancer. That's enough of a shock for him to get right now.

As for Corina, she may have had a fake ID.
 

Hi everyone! :-)

I wanted to write something, in regards to all of the comments regarding Ivana's actions, and the implausibility and/or inanity of it all, to try and help make more sense out of something that I am seeing so many people fail to see any sense or plausibility IN. My intention was to help the viewers who find the recent Ivana-led course of events illogical and of a lesser caliber than the general high quality of the rest of the novela see a point of view that hopefully will help everything make more sense. I know that when I thought about it, and came to these conclusions, I suddenly became even MORE invested in the storyling, as it now made sense to me. I hope that this may help you too. :-)

I think it helps make more sense of things if one comes to consider Ivana as having been so deeply, profoundly, and violently affected by the trauma she went through both emotionally and medically that now she is a person shattered and destroyed and as such incapable of logic and reason.

Remember, what Ivana went through not only resulted in the loss of her baby, but has fundamentally permanently changed her AS A WOMAN. Remember, this is a woman who has never really known 'family'. She is- and has been made to be- deeply insecure of herself as a person and a someone in her own skin. Her closest relation- the viperish Susana- has only served to reinforce this. So Ivana hides behind her money and her business acumen as a means of validating herself, which also acts a band-aid for the gaping wound within her that is her sense of worthlessness, of not being good enough, of feeling like a failure as a person. Recently, we saw that wound exposed in a recent duel she had with Ursula, where Ivana entered the conversation confident and ready to do battle and Ursula- surely one of the most vicious characters in all of telenovelas- absolutely annihilated her, telling her in the coldest, harshest way possible exactly what Ivana thinks about herself- that she was a failure, as much of a loser as a wife and mother as she was a daughter, a person so pathetic that no one would want her, not even her own parents, and who nobody would ever think is worthy enough to stick around. In that conversation, Ursula addressed Ivana as somebody beneath contempt, and this is what Ivana- under that band-aid of success- really thinks and feels about herself, which is why that conversation with Ursula (where she heard all of those things validated, and by a woman who has already done so much to hurt and wrong her) reduced her to a blubbering mess, someone so hurt that she had no more defenses left and had to endure the ignominy of showing Ursula her shame and her defeat, and thus letting Ursula know that she had one. Ivana loses again.



 

Dan being a useless slug being beside the point, her relationship- or the initial idea of the relationship- involved another aspect of Ivana, one that she has NOT (yet) been a failure in, but this only because it hasn't really even ever existed- that of Ivana AS A WOMAN. A black hole as a daughter of any worth, a fat and homely girl who's the source of shame for those around her and derision for all others- but a successful and wealthy businesswoman. Could it be possible that this unfortunate slob might be able to find the things that most women- regardless of who they are and what their story may be- want and try to find? A male partner to share their life, a child to love and grow with, a family of their OWN making. She would SO love to be able to consider this- FINALLY! YES, Ivana can!! But Ivana is weak, alone, and unsure, and as such she was prey to the amoral Santibanez's, and it was like a lamb going to the slaughter. She knows all of this, now. As irrational, unrealistic, or difficult to fathom as some of her thoughts and actions may be, I don't think there is any doubt that she now has her fingers right on the pulse of who the Santibanez's are, and sees them for exactly what they are. Ivana sees what they have done to her, of how they 'beat' her. She knows now that none of them ever had even the tiniest and most basic modicum of respect for her to view her as a human being, and the absolute lack of worth they assigned her- she's a vaca, a wallet, a means to an end- and that's all she is. THIS then is how Ivana's great and hopeful attempt to maybe find a man and an in-law family she can partner with... AS ALL WOMEN DO... has started, and THESE are the people she found. And she knows that thus far, her experience and these people have resulted in her being lied to, taken advantage of, cheated on, kidnapped, isolated, drugged into a state of dangerous oblivion, and almost murdered. These people have shown her that they have absolute disregard for her life. Ivana knows all of this, painfully so. And as such all of her actions now in that regard are geared towards a desperate attempt to stand up for herself- to SHOW THEM. And doing this for Ivana is VITAL- she desperately does not want to be a failure here- taking this leap of faith in herself as a woman seeking a life partner as she is- as the Santibanez's are showing her, and HAVE shown her, she is- again and again. 'Showing them', Ivana hopes, will enable her to reclaim the worth and value of herself as a woman deserving and capable of a relationship that the Santibanez's have tried to take away from her and show her she's not worthy of, and can't have. For this reason, she absolutely must do this. She cannot fail- and lose- again.


 

Ivana's forays into love and marriage resulted in one other thing for her, which I am mentioning now because it was something that affected Ivana most especially, right down to her core, and has left her permanently and forever 'changed', but probably in her mind's eye 'irreparably broken': Not only did she miscarry, but she is now forever incapable of bearing children.
Consider what that means to this woman. Again, as I said above, this is a woman unworthy, unlovable, deserving of nothing but shame and derision, a loser who can't get anyone to love her, and whom people always leave. A failure. Pathetic. We have seen Ivana try and forge for herself something of worth and value in her role as a mature and available woman hopeful for a partner, and we have seen how awful that has gone- not quite YET a failure, but getting close- and how her attempts to avoid that and redeem herself have led her into dark and irrational, extreme actions. But having her womb torn from her cuts deeper. ALL women can bear children- it even transcends species- even in the lowest species of animal, women can bear young and bring new life into the world. It's the most basic and fundamental science!
But Ivana can't.
Every woman that she sees- and WILL see, I imagine- for the rest of her life will be a reminder that every other woman in the world has the ability to do something that Ivana- and Ivana alone- can't. Even a mangy stray dog can bear young... but not Ivana. This is also why she was so devastated at the death of fetus she was carrying- the one, brief, stunted attempt that she had. Fail. You take the one thing, and then the other, and you come up with a woman who FAILED in the ONE try she had to be both a mother and a woman who is simply CAPABLE of bringing new life into the world like all others... and who will never get another chance to change that, to vindicate herself, to 'show the world' AND herself. To win.
She also, probably, was hoping that in having children and a family she would be able to find and provide- and as such FINALLY have and know- the kind of love and pride in family that she never had. I have no doubt that- if she had a child, Ivana would be an incredible mother- motherhood would give her life meaning and purpose and she would come to view the prominence that business success has in assigning value to her life would probably reveal itself to her for the straw man that it is. But now, that, too, she will never know. Ivana now, down to the deepest, most elemental parts of herself, has been broken. She looks around and she sees that this one part of her that she felt she might actually make something of, the one part of her that ISN'T dependent on anything in her life thus far and that SHE ALONE is in charge of- Ivana as woman, wife, mother- began in failure and now has been taken from her forever, and is rapidly disappearing into the ether. Again- she CAN'T allow this. It's the only link to herself as a 'whole', 'unbroken woman! And, as we're seeing, she is grasping at whatever straw that she can- no matter how illogical, how unhealthy, how crazy, how stupid, how doomed to fail- to stop it.


 

In this way, so many of Ivana's actions and general lack of rational thought and sense fit the perfect pattern of someone suffering from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. The woman- whose personal foundation has never been strong- has been shattered, and unfortunately for anyone in her life now- but certainly most of all her- she lives, acts, and operates out of that place of desperation, chaos, and destruction. Nothing good can come from this.

This also helps to explain her irrationality and attitude towards Maria Dolores. As I said above, all women now, to Ivana, will remind her and represent to her what they are and that she is not, nor ever will be. Maria Dolores most especially, though. We have seen, in earlier confrontations between the two, Ivana throwing 'rich girl shade', a typical reaction similar to the mean kid on the playground who's nasty to everybody because he's the one who's actually desperately insecure. Maria Dolores, who's thin, and pretty. Who has FAMILY who LOVE her, friends, who does what she does because she LOVES it, not because it's the only way she can prove anything to anyone- least of all herself. I think Ivana hates and resents Maria Dolores even more because she's nice, and a good person. Ivana was hoping to find somebody who she could either intimidate (this would, in addition to enabling Ivana to superficially consider herself the superior person, allow her to view Maria Dolores as a person of weaker and lesser character if she is so capable of allowing herself to be diminished), or who would be aggressive, hostile, negative, or nasty. Such a person would show Ivana that they are WORTHY of her hostility, her enmity. That Maria Dolores didn't give Ivana anything to hate infuriates her because it shows her (Ivana) how lesser a person SHE is actually being in this. Plus, she is the woman that the ONE guy that Ivana snagged and for a while was desperately trying to convince herself was her own... is, has been, and always will be in love with. Ivana can't compare. She knows this. BUT, of course, she is desperate not to fail... and thus began the tragic cycle of extreme delusion, deceit, financial manipulation, and worse whose end result was the barren and broken woman we have now. THIS, of course, was happening BEFORE the loss of her fetus, and her ability to bear children. NOW- losing, having lost, and having been beaten in so much of her life right now... this SAME woman is bringing the child into the world that Ivana wasn't able to, and never will. AND... it's the child of SAME man who was the father of the one Ivana lost! The horrible way that the child was conceived matters nothing to Ivana (she is more than aware of the false and meaningless way that hers was conceived), the fact that she actively resents and despises her husband matters even less. She simply can't let Maria Dolores have this. In her mind's eye- Maria Dolores has everything! Ivana has nothing, and nothing is available for her. Maria Dolores will already succeed where Ivana failed when she brings the baby into the world, and that baby's existence will be living and continuing proof of the coupling of Dan and Maria Dolores, and that bore fruit whereas that of Dan and Ivana is dead and reduced to nothingness. That baby is a symbol of everything that Ivana has lost. For this reason, she NEEDS to get it and have it for herself, and this is why she will do anything to have it.

 

Does this make sense to you guys? Curious as to your feedback! As you can probably tell, one of the reasons why I loved this show was because of the depth and color, and the extremes, of so many of these characters, or which Ivana is but one. I know that she does so many wrong and negative things, and without doubt because of her actions she would be considered an antagonist to our story but I just find her so desperately, desperately sad. And as such, while I certainly don't condone any of her hostile actions, her character moves me to both pity and empathy (something I don't normally feel in a novela!).

Anyway, hope you guys enjoyed my 'Ivana treatise'! Best wishes to you all!! :-)
 

Stevey- Great analysis! And I agree with you. See my comment yesterday at 9:54 am.
 

I also agree that it's way more important right now that Max know that his mother is dying than that he know his father is having an affair. And I don't think it would be wise to tell him both at the same time as I'm sure his emotions will be high after the cancer news. I think MD did the best she could do here.

Also, how could she possibly know that Claudio, respected judge, her future father in law, would react to her confronting him by uniting with her enemies to get her rapist out of jail. It's unfathomable and illogical, if you think about the blowback from his sons. No, I will not blame MD for Claudio's stupid actions. This is beyond the pale.
 

I think MD needs to tell Max everything as she promised to do and stop being the filter. Her decisions to date have not gone well and if she is in, all in. If she doesn't her promise to him is worthless because she can always come up with a "but".
 

Things aren't always black or white. In real life you wouldn't tell someone with one breath that their beloved mother is dying, and in the next that their dad is having an affair. You just wouldn't.
 

Tactfully I agree Vivi on the ill timing, however Alma's cancer diagnosis makes Claudio and Isela's betrayal much worse. Here is Isela as Alma's closest confident and sleeping with her husband. I think Max should know that.
 

Stevey, that is a great analysis. It also points to the absolute need for psychological counseling for people like Ivana.

Ivana needs to understand that you can't choose your parents. She had a mother who didn't value her and when her parents died (Did they ever say how?) she ended up with an aunt who might be worse than her mother was. One also has to wonder at what the fashion press had been saying about Ivana since she took over the company.

How can a plain, overweight woman run a company dedicated to glamour? That must have been something they questioned all along. The answer is to be good in business. She should also think about fashion legends like Edith Head who was no beauty but who designed stunning evening and ball gowns.

The lack of self-esteem made her vulnerable to the Santibanez clan, who share responsibility for her medical condition and outcome. She should not envy MD for being knocked up by Danny-Boy -- and as a result of rape, no less. That means that unless that whole clan is dead at the end of the tale she will never be free of them, even with Max to protect her.


 

I agree with MD not telling max about his dad
Cheatin. Theres a place and time for things to be revealed and at this time, when shes,
Dying, No. Some things are more important
Than others. One tragity at a time. I think MD
made a good choice. I would have made the
Same choice. Max will find out about his ol
Cheatin popa soon enough. Momma's more
Important right now. I'm just sayin.
 

Stevey - Very thoughtful analysis of Ivana. Her character has not turned out like I expected (I thought she'd be a force to be reckoned with against Ursula and would eventually ally with MD). And I can't stand her lack of empathy for everybody else. So I have kind of tuned out on her, except in her scenes with Gerry. She's a very sad woman and it's just a shame she doesn't have a therapist because she is suffering from some form of post traumatic stress disorder.

ITA for now I think MD keeping her mouth shut about the affair is a good thing. The Alma-Claudio-Isela triangle is complicated because Isela isn't just some skank. She has become to Alma the daughter she never had. Would Max be able to keep his cool and get Isela out of Alma's house quietly? Claudio is making one bad move after the other and is in deep denial about how wretched he is. Would he turn on his sons to keep his nookie with Isela? This TN certainly provokes a lot of thought
 

Niecie- The sad thing about Ivana is precisely the lost potential. She and MD (and Doris) would make an awesome fashion team. But instead of using her backing of MD and Doris' small business loan to launch something really spectacular-- instead Ivana wastes it trying to spy on MD's alleged pregnancy and to blackmail MD. With all her wealth and desire to be a mother, Ivana could adopt a half dozen kids in need from that orphanage she visited, including that adorable baby girl she held in her arms-- instead Ivana chooses to obsess over MD's baby and plot to steal it. So many wasted opportunities, while she complains about the opportunities she DOESN'T have.
 

"She has become to alma the daughter she never had". that's why It will be so painful when alma finds out that this woman whose been having an affair with her husband right up under her nose in her own house that she invited her in because of a lie that isela told about a good man raping her. Yes she is a skank. The worst kind.
"Will Max be able to keep his cool and get isela out of Alma's house quietly"? well when I think about what he did to Danny Boy when he found out that he raped MD, of course this isn't rape this is just his no account father cheating on his mother that's dying of cancer cheating with a young woman that she invited into her home and her heart, so I don't know, what yall think? I think it's best he don't know right now. I know he probably wouldn't beat up a woman like that though I wouldn't put it past him to throw caution to the wind and go out to his daddy. The man has a temper. Don't even mention leo. I'm
Glad she didn't tell him, somebody need to have some joy on this TN, maybe the joyful wedding will be a happy time if it even gets to that. We willl see.
 

Ivana doesn't need any children, she is too screwed up in the head. She need to get her priorities straight and get some help from a counselor psychologist. But right now she don't need to be nobody's mama. And Jerry is trying bless his heart to be a good friend, he's telling her the truth but she won't listen.
So whatever anvils fall on her head she brought em. I don't mean to sound harsh but some people just bring problems on themselves. And it's like she's got to work up some kind of hatred against MD so she will feel justified in taking the baby. she don't need to go anywhere near a child until she gets herself straightened out.
 

I think getting Isela away from Alma exactly the reason to tell Max, now. When Max asks how do you know mom has cancer, MD can say Isela has the paperwork because she is the only one that knows and told to hide it from you, your brother and father. It is complicated because your mother is attached to Isela like a daughter but she is not the trustworthy friend I grew up with.

Max is a big boy and he already knows his father not what he always thought. Protect Alma and let Claudio and Isela go to hell.
 

I can't feel very sorry for Ivana not being able to have children because that was her own fault. She REFUSED to seek medical treatment when she was losing the baby and refused to seek treatment AFTER she lost the baby, even though Susana, Gerry & the doctor begged her to....even after they all told her her life was at risk if she didn't seek treatment.

The first step to Ivana's recovery is she will have to take responsibility for herself and her actions.

It's Ivana's fault she can't have any more children, because she refused medical treatment. It's not Maria Dolores' or even Ursula's fault.

It's Ivana's fault she is overweight. She has enough money to hire nutritionists & trainers. (although I think Ivana looks fine)

It's Ivana's fault she looks dumpy & frumpy. She owns a fashion house & could have flattering couture made for her at the snap of her fingers. I'm glad she stopped with the side ponytail but she has enough money to hire a glam squad.

It's Ivana's fault she remains tangled up with the Santibanez'. She knows they're bad, Gerry & Susana have warned her to dump them and keep it moving. She refuses. So any ill effects Ivana gets from dealing with the Santibanez' is deserved ...if you lay down with dirty dogs, don't be surprised when you get up with ticks & fleas.

It may seem I'm harsh on Ivana or don't like her. I like Ivana! I realize she has very low self esteem & she's very damaged. But just like with Isela, you get to a point where you realize these people are doing very bad things because they WANT to, and they really can't blame Maleny or Ursula or Dan or Ari or Claudio or Josefa for the bad things they do.

Ivana WANTS to take Maria Dolores' baby from her b/c she wants to stick it to Maria Dolores.

Isela is sleeping with Claudio because she LIKES sleeping with Claudio.

I would even argue that up to now, Maria Dolores continually lied to Max because she wanted to...lying and running away was easier than telling him the truth (hopefully now she realizes lying only makes things worse).
 

Anon207- Amen. And Ivana HAS actually improved her clothing and hair since this tn began. Too bad she hasn't done the internal improvements too. Gerry tried to get this process started by asking her to do her once a day look in the mirror and seeking out one thing each day that she likes about herself. I am guessing she has not started this assignment yet. At the end of the day, she is responsible for her actions and responsible for getting help (psychological) for herself.
 

Interrupting my work on tonight's to comment on Viv's 12:10:

Telling yourself anything nice about yourself in the mirror is a tougher assignment than it sounds like. If you are the daughter of a raging narcissist and are/were of no value to her because you are fat/ugly/awkward/anything-else-she-isn't (including anything positive), this act will feel like an act of conceit rather than one of self-respect. That is a tough idea to overcome because of the memories it calls up.

Gerry meant well, but this needs to happen within the context of therapy. Some books on narcissism and toxic parents would also help. I've read lots of them.
 

Urban- I get it. But the point is that Ivana has to be the one to make the effort to improve her life (her emotional and mental health). And she hasn't tried at all.
 

True. That is the biggest flaw in the writing of this tale.
 

Well, we're not at the end yet. There's still time for Ivana. And we wouldn't have a telenovela if people weren't making mistakes left and right. I actually like that the characters of Isela and Ivana exist (while not liking either of them) because neither are standard cookie cutter evil villains. They have good in them. Yet they are doing so really awful things. They have both been dealt a lot of bad stuff in their lives. But they have also have a lot of good in their lives, and are doing a pretty good job of ruining these good things. It's hard to tell what the final end will be for either of them. I could see them both having either happy or horrible endings, depending on the choices they continue to make.
 

I completely agree with Anon207's assessment of Ivana. Ivana is doing these things because she wants to. She has the resources to get help and chooses not to.

I give MD a lot more leeway in her lying because like she said, she doesn't set out to hurt people;rich, powerful people try to destroy her and she does the quickest thing that comes to her to fix it. And when it doesn't work, she takes responsibility for it.
That's what separates her from Ivana, Isela and Ari.

Whoever said all MD needs to do is tell Max to watch out for Claudio and Isela is so right. In light of Alma's near imminent death, the affair is less important than getting her help and comfort from her family.

Max still respects his father and him seeing Claudio's thugnastiness for himself is the best option.

 

I just can't get my head around Alma and Isela planning MD's wedding. It's a shame Alma doesn't feel about her prospective daughter in law the way she does Isela. When she was hugging Isela in front of MD it made my stomach turn and to MD's credit she seemed non pulsed. Horrible, because every conversation and plan made among the three, Dan will know before Max. On the outside, Espy, Clara and Doris.
 

Ivana teeters towards good and bad; I'm not sure that I see the same teetering in Isela.

Isela didn't have to do any of it. Even after the first few times of sleeping with Claudio, Isela could have run off with Orlando and gotten married...Orlando would not have let Josefa abuse her anymore.

Isela needs to stop being stupid and at least get SOMETHING out of her affair with Claudio because as it stands he will drop her like a hot potato when the thrill wears off / when Alma finds out / when Alma dies and all she'll have to show for it is the hood turning their back on her when they find out.

She better get smart real quick. Isela is the biggest loser.
 

There's really no reason for Alma to trust or like Maria Dolores.

She's heard stories from people she's known for years (Ivana, Santibanez') that Maria Dolores is a thief and a ho;

The little sister comes in with a bag of all her jewelry and confesses to stealing it;

Every time her son goes around this woman's neighborhood he's getting severely injured;

Her son faced years in jail for beating up her former boyfriend;

The lady lied & said she was pregnant by a third man and ran away;

If a male member of my family were dating a Maria Dolores, I'd feel like this woman might be a perfectly nice & fine person but I wouldn't want her near my male family member. And if the male family member insisted on being with this woman I would be cordial & polite but I wouldn't show her any great affection. You'll get a Hello, how are you? and a Take Care but that's about it.

Beyond the class differences, there's no reason for Alma (or Claudio) to like or trust Maria Dolores. It is what it is.

I'm more ticked at Alma treating Clara like scum than Maria Dolores because Clara's never given Alma a reason to distrust her (besides the jewelry frame-up, but Maria Dolores has.


 

I think Isela believes there is a happy ending here for her as long as Josefa doesn't blow this up. She's been skillful in shutting up all her friends. How convenient for her, Alma likely will die within a year and she may think Claudio will bring her up from the minors and marry her. She should know better, Claudio may desire her but not as a wife and want a front row seat when they have that conversation.
 

I don't think Isela realizes that she won't be able to wipe the slate clean. She has needed to be free of Hosefa since before this tale began. She blew several chances at escape. She won't get another.

Nobody should believe anything Hosefa says about anyone. She is too easy to spot as a trouble-maker who gets off on other people's suffering. Someone should call Bontemps for an emergency supply of True Blood for her.
 

Chelito spotted her as a troublemaker from the beginning.
 

She did tell MD that she loved Claudio like she never loved Orlando, so I'm thinking she wants to be Mrs Bustamonte after Alma dies.
 

Stevey - that analysis was awesome, amazing, and spot on! I think you've really given Ivana the in-depth look worthy of a character of her complexity. Her history, vague though it has been, is also rich with character-shaping shades of gray and you laid it out beautifully! Applause, applause!

I think you're 100% right about her motivations. Although I agree with those that say she has to take responsibility for her actions, she's demonstrated more than once that her reaction to pain is to deny or try to hide the deep cuts, even though she's basically terrible at that, which is why people can hurt her so much. She thinks she's got great walls up, but that's not it; she's basically all soft underbelly. She's got no armor, she just has big weapons to hit back with most of the time.


Anyway, still reeling from the genius of your analysis. Beautiful!

Anon207-On Alma and MD: Agreed. I also mentioned this a few weeks ago. As annoying as Alma was and is about her interactions with MD and her family, she's working on faulty information and unfortunate realities. Mal, Ursula, Dan and Josefa definitely stacked the decks against MD long before she had a chance to make a decent first impression on Alma, but she hasn't helped herself much since. Plus, she does live in a neighborhood that doesn't show itself well. Both Leo and Max have almost died because of the malevolent actions of her neighbors and if we weren't seeing the stars align against her, if we didn't get that perspective, she would seem like a barrel of excuses. "Jacinto's out to get me..." "Dan's obsessed with me..." "Josefa's always hated me..." It's always somebody else's fault seems implausible, but unfortunately for MD these things are true and unfortunately for MD and Alma, they don't know enough about who they're dealing with to see it.

UA - unfortunately, Josefa mixes just enough truth with her lies so that we can't always discredit her.

 

Isela and Orlando's love was too mixed up with other stuff. Isela loved him because he represented happiness, selfless love for her, and escape from her mother, who rarely, if ever, gives her those things. And Orlando watched a girl grow up abused and mistreated and wanted to save her. I think he did love her, but he didn't realize how deeply that abuse was changing her and now she's not the girl he loved for all those years. He knows it and she knows it and I think more than what she's doing, those glimpses of regret and fear we see in Isela are for the fact that she's losing herself. I think she sees what she's doing and she can't believe she's doing it, but the sense of power and finally being on her mom's good side, even having power over her mom, is too addictive.
 

Hellashelle- I think you nailed it with Isela. This describes it perfectly: "...those glimpses of regret and fear we see in Isela are for the fact that she's losing herself. I think she sees what she's doing and she can't believe she's doing it, but the sense of power and finally being on her mom's good side, even having power over her mom, is too addictive." Yes!