Caray, Caray!

Urban, thanks so much for recapping this episode. So much was going on, so much yelling, and scenes flipping back and forth. Other than SN and her slang in MCET, I haven't had such a hard time deciphering the dialog before. Your recap was a gem and thanks from me because you cleared up three parts I had difficulty with understanding.

Ivana -- which way the wind blows there?
 

Thank you UA, as always finely crafted.

"She turned away from the sound of his voice. Smart baby"

I wonder who sent Alma the wreath?

I hope Max has the doctor fired.

I didn't see the doctor take any blood from Dan, only MD.

Wow, another dead young woman but this one at the bank not prison.

Errrrr, Ivana.

I'm so glad Chelo pointed out to Orlando his behavior would confuse anyone, especially Doris. I hate he can smile and sweet talk though and even Chelo rolls over. If he will never love Doris break up with her and let her live her life.

 

Thanks so much, Urban!

Max is giving Ivana the benefit of doubt again. Ugh! He should know by now, that she's a liar, who always tries to paint her intentions in the best light, when they are really selfish. Gerry looks like he's done believing her, but all she has to do is turn on some tears, and talk about "protecting" the baby, and he'll fall for her lies again. Susana saw through her though. I'll believe she'll testify and give the baby back, when I see it.

I bet those guards hustled MD back to prison because she was talking too much, and the doc allowed it because MD and Max were questioning and exposing his lapses in ethics. Jerk. MD is not well enough to go back, and now she'll be more at risk than ever, unless Clod can move quickly to start finally doing some good, and do some housekeeping in that prison.

Tofie- No samples were taken from Dan for a DNA test because Max put a stop to it. They have to wait for the court order and the doctor/clinic the court mandates.
 

I don't believe Isela sent the wreath, so that leaves Josefa. Or Ursula, but I don't think she had time between when Clod said he was now her enemy, and when the wreath arrived.

My favorite line of the night was Clara saying to Leo that she thought she had fallen in love with a man, but it turns out he was a little boy. And how after laying out the cold hard truth of her bleak present and future, she sarcastically told him that to be polite she should have just told him she was fine and excited about going to law school some day, but she knows how much he hates lies. Ouch. Yeah, Leo felt that.

Really worried about this "promotions" job she's taking. None of her alarm bells are going off, but mine sure are.
 

Thank you UA. I'm with all of you, Ivana has gone back and forth more times than a ping pong game. She says she wants to help the baby, then she should testify in favor of MD. That's the best way to help the baby.

So NOW Claudio is on board to help MD. He says that right after he calls her wretched. I guess we can figure out that he did have it in for MD from the beginning now that we know how he feels about her.

I can't wait to hear what Orlando's answer to Chelito's question is.
 

Cathyx- I actually don't remember Clod calling MD wretched. I'm at work, so I can't access the episode. Perhaps someone else can take another listen.

In any case, he clearly didn't see MD or Marta as important enough to have second thoughts about playing with THEIR lives in order to protect himself and his friend. They were poor, lower class, little women, and therefore didn't have value in his eyes. No need to think about how HIS choices affected their families. Isela gave him a glimpse of how his decision about Marta's life affected many people for years to come, including HIS family, and now HIS child-- Marta's grandchild. We're all connected, Clod.
 

"Desgraciada" was the word Claudio used and Google Translate calls it as "wretched" although to me that word always comes off as meaning something even worse, as in something pitiless and/or shameful.

So is the nuance of language.

Vivi, I completely agree with you about why MD is being dragged back to the prison. Those two guards are Marcia's enablers and when she falls so will they. It won't matter then that Corina may have said anything to Max (and why didn't she speak up as soon as she got out?). As Leo pointed out before, MD will never get those five or six months of her life back. Her health and the baby's could be permanently compromised after all this as well. Not to mention what this experience is doing to MD's mental health.

That doctor in the hospital should be hauled before a medical disciplinary committee whether he was paid off by Ursula or not. That he treated MD as he did and allowed her to be dragged out before she recovered is disgusting.

Now for Ivana....

I also wonder whether Max is making a huge mistake in trusting her. He should have insisted that she accompany him immediately for that testimony. She may or may not fear legal consequences for her prior silence. I hope there are some.

Hence the title...

More later.
 

I'm beginning to think that Ivana isn't supposed to give her testimony until MD's hearing, and that's why it's taking so long. I can just see the scene now. On one side is Dan holding the baby, and on the other side is Max. And she's looking back and forth between them before she speaks.
 

Yes, UA, that's what I heard too. Desgraciada.
 

Daniel wants MD so bad I wouldn't put it past him to cheat on the paternity tests, then coerce MD into giving him another chance so they can raise the baby together.

Other than Corina, what has Max done for MD? ?. Everything he promises doesn't come true.

Sure he is there to love her and support her, but I'm not sure what else.
In a way I look forward to seeing the end of this novela because I can't stand the hound dog look of Claudio everytime that he lowers his head with that forlorn look.
 

Cathyx- Yep. At this point everyone is waiting for the hearing to testify (Ivana, Honoria, Josefa), which of course kept getting put off by Clod. We don't know whether or not Ivana has already made statements to the police pre-hearing. This might have made a difference in getting MD out on bail, had she not been immediately thrown in prison. The question is, if Ivana DID make a statement to the police already in favor of MD, and then changes her testimony on the stand at the hearing, will she be in legal trouble? Is that what Max meant when he said he'd bring the law down on Ivana?

Desgraciada call also just mean the one with bad luck/the unfortunate one-- which MD is.
 

There's been a correction, thanks to an e-mail from Carlos. It changes the entire meaning of the sentence in question. It's that the prison warden is permitting conditions to make MD's life wretched, not that he thought she was.

However, it still doesn't make me change the title from what it is. Both Claudio and Ivana are a day late and a dollar short.

Max is demanding the conditions I asked for in Poder discussions: A court-ordered blood test with the appropriate chain of evidence. Unless Ursula is capable of bribing everyone in that chain of evidence this should be the last word.

Of course, given the horrible conditions of MD's solitary confinement it is a good bet that the baby will have a medical crises that will require a blood transfusion which will necessitate tests and that could bring on what some of us have been hoping for, which is that Max is her father.
 

OT, but important: According to TV Guide's website, Univision's prime time lineup is pre-empted for holiday programming both on Christmas Eve and New Year's Eve. So all Thursday authors get the night off on both dates.
 

Thank you for the recap Urban! It was so exiting to relieve the episode through your eyes and words!

I've been very busy with work lately so I haven't been able to comment but I do check out the recaps when I can. This telenovela is so dark but it was so good to see the complicated twists and turns.

Well, things got from bad to worse, poor MD! She only got to see her daughter when she was being held by a woman who wants to steal her. Ivana needs to take a look at her choices, she is even richer and more powerful than the Santibañez; she'd be a great ally to that baby girl who needs her real mother by her side, not an obsessive stranger.

Leo is clearly showing the reason why he isn't trusted to know things, since he can't act with maturity yet. It was so important for him to let Clara know how hurt he still was by telling her he would leave the country after his mother's death that he forgot to see how she's dealing with her own painful lot in life, without any safety net to rely on just to be assured that she'll have food on the table.

Jarocha
 

Leo doesn't know the half of it and when he does I'm sure he will change his mind.

I'm hoping Alma has the strength to hold on long enough to have a good talk with that boy. He's a wonderful son and mostly a good boyfriend, but still has growing up to do. And since I have the same bad vibe as Vivi about what Clara is about to get herself into, I'm also thinking that he needs to rescue her from that.
 

I thought I heard in this episode that Ivana hasn't given any statements yet. I'm too lazy to go back and watch.

I can't see how, even with Claudio doing everything in his power to undo everything he's done, that Max and Alma could ever forgive him like he thinks.
 

Urban--Not only did we have rapid fire conversations, yelling, and scene changing, but we got loud music at key junctures. I'm amazed and pleased you pulled it all together for us. Thank you for your endurance in order to bring us a well crafted recap.

My old print dictionary defines desgraciada as unfortunate, hapless, luckless. Any of these fit better into what Clod said. He'd already decided to help MD and had come to the Santibanez manse to tell Ursula that. I still think he's a slippery old snake. Now I much more appreciate the actor portraying the role. His stony-face doesn't give away anything--no feelings, no consideration, no empathy, don't know what he's thinking, no nothing.

My questions of the day are: What did Alma see in him and What about him made Isela "fall in love" with him once they started having sex. Well, she got to live in a mansion for awhile and have her own luxury bathroom. Other than that, he gave her nothing. He didn't even follow through with that apartment he and Alma were going to give her.

I wonder if Honoria didn't send the wreath. It was a funeral wreath. No wonder it and the note affected Alma. Hon was talking to Hosefa about how her vengeance was just getting started--against MD and Daniel; but I wouldn't put it past her to stir up trouble between the Bustamantes and Hosefa. Of course, the logical person would be Hosefa.

I had to turn away from watching the treatment MD was getting from the guards. This actress needs some kind of special award for portraying a decent young woman who is defrauded, victimized, terrorized, blackmailed, nearly dying in a fire, raped, beaten, tortured, assaulted, involved in an accidental death by gunshot, imprisoned, deprived of decent food and medical care, abused, kept from bonding with her child, etc., in just about every episode of this whole telenovela and doing with class and above all, believability.

cathyx--I think you are correct, based on what Max said, that he expects Ivana to testify at MD's hearing in her favor. What I don't understand, is that she was an eyewitness. Of course, the police investigators didn't know that, but why didn't Max tell them there was an eyewitness they should interview. It should have been appropriate for her to give her "statement" to corroborate MD's story.

I guess since MD hasn't even been before a judge it's moot (although we know she didn't get bail, so some sort of legal proceeding took place without her). Maybe that's why Ivana has been able to be so wishy-washy for so long about her testimony--giving her time to decide what is in her best interests. To her credit--she knows this is her one and only ace in the hole against Danny-Boy.

I still don't trust Ivana to be telling the truth to anybody.

This novela should have been titled, Yo No Creo en Nada Que Me Dicen Hombres o Mujeres.
 

Jarocha- ITA about Leo. Sure, his mother is dying. But unlike Clara with her father, he is having the chance to say goodbye to Alma. And once his mother passes, he can start a new life and adventures, with his only job being to get past his grief and go to college. Clara doesn't even have time to grieve, and she certainly doesn't have the luxury of starting over, fresh, with new (happy) adventures, because she has no money. They is no escape from her sadness and her misfortunes.
 

Vivi--As always, your fingers are faster than mine. You came up with pretty much the same thing I did while I was still thinking and composing.
 

Vivi: You explained Clara's situation so perfectly. She's dealing with too much right now, it's why Leo's actions bother me so much.

Anita: I've often thought of the novela title having a broader meaning than one might think. In Spanish, when you talk about "los hombres" or "el hombre" you could be speaking about all mankind, not just the males. So the title could go either way, I don't believe in men or I don't believe in mankind.

Jaroch
 

Corina said the title twice so far. And both times I believe she was referring to men.
 

Jarocha--Your correction clarifies the title for me--I've always been mentally interpreting it as MEN, as in the kind Maria Dolores had to deal with, starting with Jacinto and Daniel, and my opinion never changed--even Max is tainted. But then I got confused when it was the WOMEN who were doing so much lying, conniving and manipulating, starting with Ivana and Ursula. Thank goodness it's almost over. Can't quite say I've enjoyed or liked watching this novela, but it certainly has been intense with good actors interpreting a great story.
 

Just to clarify, I'm not trying to say that it doesn't refer to humankind also, just that when Corina said it, I think she was referring to men.
 

I always thought of it as "men" especially since Corina was the first to say it. As it applies to MD, her judgement has been questionable period. She herself trusted Dan because she felt sorry for him only to be raped.

I don't believe Ivana has made her statement. Not knowing Mexican law I assume any statement in defense would be in front of a judge at trial and unless she has made statements under oath can say whatever she wants. Inconsistent statements however would serve the same purpose (in US law) for impeaching a witness, making any testimony questionable and disregarded.
 

Cathyx- Definitely when Corina said it she meant men specifically (although she also said she was starting not to believe in women too). But as a general title of the tn, I can see how it means mankind in general. Many of our characters have let life's setbacks and hardships warp and destroy their belief in the goodness of other human beings. Every character has suffered somehow and to differing degrees, and I'm guessing the last people standing will be the ones who believe in the goodness of their fellow (hum)man, and who show understanding, kindness and goodness in return when push comes to shove.
 

Great recap, thanks. Oy, I guess MD earns that name "Dolores" Lord have mercy, poor woman. I know she must be at her breaking point. If those vultures get her baby I am sure she will break. Max has not been able to keep any of his promises( with good reasons) and if he can't protect the baby then MD will lose her faith in him. I don't believe Ivana for a second. Clara is getting herself in deep trouble. That guy is scuzzy. Whoever sent the funeral wreath is lower than dirt.
Romy
 

MD was not raped because she trusted Dan. She was raped because Dan is an obsessed psycho who refuses to be rejected (which she had done to him in no uncertain terms by that point). MD could have never started a relationship with Dan or even gone on one date with him, and he could have still become obsessed with her, refused to accept her nos, and raped her, still believing that some day they will be a happy couple, just as he does now.
 

Humanity definitely gets a bad rap from this story, especially because of the previously good Honoria and the ill-perceived Claudio as honorable.

We've had previous discussions on the subject of misogyny here and I think this series has lots of fodder for another one. We have women who lie, cheat, steal, gaslight, and even kill for self-serving purposes and most of their victims are other women. Most of the men victimize women in this story as well: Only Max, Leo, Adrian, and Gerry (RIP Julian), are off the hook for this. Fermin has turned himself around, but he abandoned Honoria when she needed him the most. I am also realizing that he hasn't paid for sending those thugs to rob Rudolfo whom they killed (even if that wasn't the intended outcome).

Maybe more later. Tonight's recap of Poder needs to be done and will probably be a little late because I'm not well, either.
 

Yeah I like him but Max is toast unless he's the father and even then how does she ever trust him on anything, he cannot deliver, good guy but ineffective. Let's see, he got Julian and his buddies out, Corina out, messed up Dan's plan to take Espy's house (except that is not resolved either), that's it. MD needs a new attorney.
 

Urban
How goes P&P, is it worth watching?


Again fantastic recap.

Get well soon.
 

MD trusted that Dan would not hurt her because she saw something in his tears and begging. She admitted that mistake and sadly blamed herself.

I totally agree it was the no that set Dan off, he never had anyone tell him no.
 

No lawyer could deliver MD's freedom. Claudio had clout with the judge, who had all the power to keep her in jail indefinitely. So Max isn't to blame for being a bad lawyer. In a corrupt system, you can be the best at your craft and it won't make any difference if people can be bought.

Victoria, in my opinion on Pasion y Poder, I bailed, it wasn't worth my time.
 

Max is too emotionally invested to be effective. He just gave Ivana a pass, another attorney wouldn't and would demand she declare and if not would then be able to work on a different defense. As it stands Max has set himself up to be blindsided. I also believe the relationship between Max and MD made it easier for her to remain mum about the visit to the prison by Dan and the subsequent ill treatment.
 

Poder is worth it to see Televisa's two most alpha males go at each other. It's also FC's first villain role and the first time either is portraying someone with adult children.

It's also got a lot of female fashion felonies that I will put into another weekend gallery.

BTW, due to two holiday weekends coming up the next weekend discussion will be after the new year celebrations end.
 

Thank you Urban for the detailed recap of the actual conversations last night; the English cc's were completely useless and I just had to guess what was going on.
Most unexpected surprise for me was Claudio resignation as a judge. Most predictable was his t'amo to Isela. Sickening clod.
My fondest hope: that MD's daughter will also be Max's!
 

Max's problems with the legal case aren't about his ability/effectiveness as a lawyer, but his father blocking his path. Claudio must suffer for this. He was actually quite calm (relatively) with everything that happened. Except for some minor shoving of Dan, he held it together to provide the support MD, et al, need right now. And I don't think he really gave Ivana a pass for her behavior. He made it clear that she'd better testify. MD hasn't been asked to sign away any legal rights to Ivana, and Ivana claims to be on their side. She-Ivana- hasn't done anything illegal (yet) to give Max a reason to do anything. All he can do is wait and see what her next move is and them go from there. He clearly doesn't trust her though.

Susanna, on the other hand, totally has Ivana's number. (I assume because I don't trust her either). This is why I like Aunt Susie. She's mean but has never bought into whatever game Ivana is playing. She knows Ivana is no better than she is, much as that irritates Ivana.

kelly
 

I think I want to marry Gerry.

Sending that wreath to poor Alma is nothing but pure sadism, designed to hurt. For this reason, it must be Josefa... the woman needs to be locked away for good- I'd love to see her and Abuela go toe-to-toe.
 

I think it's Josefa too. But it could be Honoria. After what she said today, and the pain she's in, I can see her sending it too.
 

My bet is on Honoria!
 

UA, splended recap. What a mess. Ivanna is a liar. She is so guilty. She knows if she can
She would have takin baby md and haul assed out Out of that hospital as fast as her
fashionista legs to take her. Poor gerry. He
Should just give up.
I can't stand honoria. I don't think she's grieving anymore cuz right now she's just being plain nasty. Hosefa is just happy hating people. No Particular reason just need someone to hate. It's an addiction for her. And Honora is falling into that same trap.
Im just waitin for the episode when ursy, danny, that butchy prison warden and her guard maidens, arango, judge busty and his
Partener in crime......get theirs. O what a really miserable story this is but the actors are really good at what they do.
That was a nasty thing some one did to send
That wreath and then sign Isela's name on it.
Did that hateful honora do that? Would not be surprised, she's just that nasty now.
Susanna, Ivana; like aunty, like neice!! Ivanna
Really should own her nastiness, shes just
Like auntee.♥♥♥♥ black heart and all.


 

I don't see how people are claiming Max is not untrustworthy or can't deliver...Max is fighting with both of his hands tied behind his back. The left hand is Claudio blocking everything and the right hand is Maria Dolores lying/omitting things. How is Max supposed to fix things when his client is continously lying and hiding things from him & his father, who is/was an influential judge is pulling strings behind the scenes & getting the judicial community to close ranks on Max?

Quite frankly, it's a testament to Max's commitment to Maria Dolores that he hasn't washed his hands of her because if I were Alma (and not dying), I would've advised him to wash his hands of MD a long time ago.