Caray, Caray!

Gracias, Sonia. You got all the stuff.

It seems that this sickness has gotten almost everyone who handled the pesticide: Tano, Leon, Ramon, and Marta (who handled Tano's shirt). It seems to not have gotten Susan yet, but there's always the next episode. Obviously it's banned in the US because it causes this sickness, although I expected it would be a respiratory illness. If Miguel knows it's harmful to the crop (How could it not be?) we know what Juan was up to.

What the hell is in that poison that Marta had seizures? She had less exposure to it than the others unless it becomes worse when you add laundry detergent or (just thought of this) are the other guys' clothes all over the employees' quarters, which will now have to be decontaminated? This has to be the reason Juan ran for it. If David still trusts him after this he is severely deficient in intelligence and I will continue to root for Miguel.

So Juan and Perla finally are boinking in a bed. Will she be willing to go back to the office for that? Actually, the real question is whether his tendency to grab her face is a foreshadow of him someday grabbing her throat when she really gets on his last nerve.

Sonia should be afraid of Graciela and she wasn't even around when Graciela killed Lisa.

I don't like being wrong but it seems that there was something between Marta and the late Fernando. With her being ill it will take longer than we want to find out about this. We can't entirely trust Lillian's word on it. Of course, could this also mean that Luciana wasn't Marcos' child? If so, when and where did this happen?
 

UA: Want to bet that Lillian is waiting for the right time to blow Marta's secrets out of the water ?

1.) If Juan kills Perla: I won't care because that little slut deserves it!

2.) You're right about Sonia being scared s****less of Graciela, who already whacked Lisa & likely will kill again.

3.) Ramon obviously suspicious of Gutierrez.

4.) David is like Art 2.0: incompetent galan!

5.) Why isn't Carito sick yet ? I still HATE that witch for what she did to Leon.

6.) Susan & Tano as a couple ? You know Fernanda will NOT like that!


 

Sonia, this was marvelous. Enjoyed every single word. The screen shot of Marta showed all too vividly how ill she was.

Favorites included "I don’t know why I’m surprised because I really shouldn’t be surprised" and "GLARE THE OTHER WAY DAVID".

"He wants to go it all for Luciana, Luciana wants him to do it for himself". I enjoy the self sufficient, don't do it for me, do it for you mentality she displays. Luciana is fearless.

"David disagree, he doesn’t want to give Fer any more reasons to be unhappy and he is afraid to love again". I don't disagree that the children should be his top priority. He virtually ignored them for two years while he wallowed in self pity. If he isn't willing to take a chance on love, then he should set Luciana free.

Speaking of, Luci seemed to be enjoying her dinner with Miguel immensely. I'm softening toward him and thought last night they might make a good couple, even though that is never going to happen. I hope Susan realizes her adolescent romp with Tano is just that and morphs back into the mature, sensible, smart woman she was when this began (tofie, are you with me?)

"Although Leon is not the most interesting character, I feel terrible for him and I hope he finds someone soooon". I like the actor, but I'm not sure if he was the right choice for this role. Granted, it's a lackluster part but he just doesn't seem to fit in somehow.

"If anything, he’s reminding me a lot of Jose Luis Alvarez from Lo Que La Vida Me Robo, for any of you who watched that telenovela". I did, and I was team Jose all the way.

"Graciela lets her know that even though she might consider Fer like a daughter, she isn’t". While it would be OK IMHO to shoot the messenger (;)) in this particular case, Graciela is right. I think however that Sonia is going to be far more of a formidable opponent than she realizes. She is gravely underestimating her.

I had to smile at "Lillian is stress eating in the kitchen". She and Sonia were daintily nibbling something (candy? fruit?). I guess the way I've gone about stress eating these many years has been totally wrong! :)

Urban, I also thought that the laundry detergent (and the fact she handled all of the clothes) definitely made Marta sicker. I hope she recovers.

Sonia, this was great. Thank you.

Diana

 

Me like it Sonia and big thanks

"GLARE THE OTHER WAY DAVID"

Its crossed my mind UA that Luciana is not the child of Marcos and with the revelation Marta was with Fernando (unless in her delirium she lied) explains her opposition to social classes mixing romantically since it didn't work out for her. I wonder aloud, if Luciana is Lisa and Graciela's half sister, why Marta was ok with Marcos and Luciana living far away?

I am with you Diana, Susan with Tano I don't get. A little diversion to get her groove back, ok, but love and jealously over a teenage girl, a big ole nope.

Susan had powder all over her and wiping her nose with her arm and expect she will be sick too.

David is crushing on Luciana way more than she is on him but so is Miguel. With this partnership in a Vineyard talk between Luciana and Miguel he thinks it extends to romantic love and she is doing nothing to separate the two except telling him to do it for himself. I see how Miguel can misread this since he wants it so but Luciana needs to draw the boundaries unless all along Miguel was her first choice. For me it appears so and wish Cesar saw it and counsel David to give it up.

It was kinda stupid for Luciana to pop in to complain to Juan about what her new boss said. She does believe David mistreated her and the impetuous to fly.

 

Thank You Sonia, nice read, as I missed this ep.

YIKES.! In typical TN convoluted plots, Luci and Fer are going to turn out to be half sisters aren't they? It just dawned on me. The DNA results will appear a day before DimBulbDav and a preggers Luci get married, right?

Ohhhhh Noooo Mr. Billll...............

 

No, I was thinking that Luciana could be the half-sister of Lisa and Graciela, which would make her Fer and Bobby's aunt. But that is still speculative.

I think Gutierrez got it right when he called Lillian out on the deportation to make Marta's life miserable. Leon had gotten sick and Marta stayed home with him, so they couldn't get deported that day. Lillian was initially disappointed but probably decided to make sour lemonade out of those lemons and spent the next 14 years torturing Marta. Marta channeled her pain and frustration into taking care of David's kids. Lillian doesn't really care about them so she has herself to blame if they love Marta more than they care about her.
 

Ooops I meant Lisa and Grace. I skipped a generation, Thanks Urban
 

Urban, it never occurred to me that Luci might not be Marcos' daughter. I think you are right - she is half sister to Graciela and Lisa. If true, that might make it more palatable for the children if she ends up with David.

Initially, Marta seemed so "upright" (for lack of a better word). She seemed kind but to me, simply didn't seem that "deep" of a person.

At this point, I am not at all sure who Marta is, especially what she might have had in mind for Gutierrez. Maybe she was faithful and maybe she thought Gutierrez was cute but that was it. I'm still not sure.

"David is crushing on Luciana way more than she is on him but so is Miguel". Yes Tofie. I think her mind was rather blown by David's kiss but she seems more down to earth and keeps her emotions in check. Unlike both David and Miguel.

Diana
 

The way ONE is threatening and grabs Perla, he is on Xanax away from choking her to death. He is already physically violent with her, manhandling her and all. Any person with a couple brain cells should run away as fast as possible.

His threats are not pillow talk, but something right out of Orange Is The New Black. She is NUTS to put up with it and even nuttier to come back for more. I don't think she will be in the finale. But in TN logic, she will deserve whatever befalls her.

It is maddening to watch DDD's abject stupidity. He should have ONE down on the floor in a choke hold asking him about the pesticide which could have wiped out the whole operation. WTF does it take for this dick to get in trouble with the owner? He almost wiped out the entire vineyard, everyone has pesticide poisoning, the books do not make sense, and the brighter minions suspect ONE of the original sabotage. DDD needs a whack! on the head with Lisa's rock, Gracie.
 

Kirby, yes, Juan has threatened Perla more than once with physical violence.

Any rational person would have left the very first time it occurred. Not only is Perla mean and vindictive, she is not very bright.

I have a ray of hope for Carito. She has a lot to atone for though.

Diana
 

Thank you so much, Sonia!

While I was watching this I was thinking what big dummies Leon, Ramon and Tano were. Here they had enough sense to cover their mouths with a mask, but they didn't wear disposable, protective coveralls and then took the masks down, talking and inhaling the fine particulates of the pesticide. As vineyard workers who have probably applied pesticides before, shouldn't they have known better? Why were they in the tank room with the wine vats instead of outside? Even if we let them off the hook, isn't Susan some kind of chemist, isn't knowledge of handling such materials part of her knowledge base? So she comes out, not even masked and ends up with the powder all over herself as well. BIG DUMMIES!!! They deserve to be sick, maybe the idiots will learn how to handle such substances in the future!

I don't see Luciana ending up being half sister of Grace and Lisa but, hey, given this is a wacky novella, anything is possible. I've already told Ramon to look to greener vineyards: he's a fool if he keeps pining over Marta. I'm liking her less and less as time goes on.

Alas, Dah-veed is appearing like more and more of a dipstick. Glare the other way, indeed! Even if he doesn't think Juan is dishonest, he should deem him stupid! He uses a pesticide that is banned, dangerous AND harmful to the grapes, Miguel saves the day again and he can't see Juan is a major problem! Tofie nailed it the other day when she said an independent audit was needed. If David didn't see the need before, he certainly should see it now.

Could care less about Perla. She is a total participant and enabler of "his" douchebaggery, and she needs to own it.

It's beyond ridiculous how Luci keeps showing back up at the vineyard after 17 pronouncements that she was leaving. In a minute even David is going to tell her, "well take your ass on then!" Kinda funny. Miguel's a good guy and smarter than David about the vineyard but I want to see those piercing hot looks of desire and wonder to be rekindled between David and Luci and then quenched with some deep kisses. Sorry, Miguel!

I think nobody but Sonia sees what Gracie is up to and I hope she's instrumental in outing her manipulation of Fer. As for David picking up that Gracie is trying to get in his tight jeans, I don't hold much hope for that. He's ripe for being date raped and Gracie claiming she's carrying his child.

He should be renamed DUH-veed.

Thanks, our very own Sonia!
 

DUH-veeeed is purrrfect LiLa. See my note about the rock.
 

I don't think anyone but Miguel realized that the pesticides were dangerous. Neither he nor anyone who has handled them so far ordered these or had any voice in the purchase decision. Juan can try to plead ignorance when David confronts him, but nobody like that should be employed at a vineyard.

David needs to fire him, but won't because the plot seems to demand his presence.

Sonia knows that Graciela manipulates FerBrat, but does she know for sure that Graciela is out for David?

As far as Graciela is concerned I used to wish I were that pale; I have a friend who is. However, now I realize I'm better off not being so. It limits the cosmetic color palette.
 

"but does she know for sure that Graciela is out for David?"

Graciela should have set off Sonia's 'mating competition' radar already, I'd bet she has.

Question from the dog pound: Are those actually jeans Luci always has on or are they those leggings with the pockets, zipper and belt printed on? If you have a drop of testosterone, the rearview is narcotic.

And thanks again Sonia. Nicely done.
 

Is this #24 or #25?
 

Ha! Kirby, I hadn't read your comment! Sounds like I was channeling you, though! ITA with everything you said and you stated it more strongly! Why, why, why do they have to make these galans so duh-mb! It IS maddening!`

Nope, Urban, I'm not letting them off the hook from the pesticide but I know it's a plot device: Gives even more credence to me and Kirby's rant about why Juan should be fired AND investigated.

ITA also, Kirby, about Sonia's "mating radar." Yah. Sonia wants her some Duh-veed real bad like and in that condition, she's got to know what Grace is up to. I'd love to see Sonia do the windmill on Gracie's face. Bet that'd bring some color to it!
 

Julie, thanks for bringing my attention to that.

Sonia should know what Graciela is up to but she isn't very bright about these things. I'm willing to bet that she had a very repressed upbringing and very few (if any) dates. David is way out of her league. If Sonia had half the brains she thinks she has she would see that he is Not Interested in Her. She might get Cesar in the end, but I think he deserves better.

As to the pesticide, I want to see that envelope of receipts found. If Perla took it home maybe someone else in employee housing will find it.
 

Thanks Sonia! This was great!

So, from a previous conversation Gutierrez had with Lilian we know that he knows who Marta is. And from Marta's conversation with Ramon last night, her nervous reaction suggests that she knows who Gutierrez is. HMMM.

Odd that Miguel and Susan didn't get sick. Didn't they get the pesticide all over themselves too?

Urban: "What the hell is in that poison that Marta had seizures?" Some poisons affect the nervous system. And laundry detergent might make it easier for the poison to get into her system.

And it certainly does appear that Marta had an affair with Fernando, unless she was just saying that to piss off Lillian.

As for Sonia, she seems self-absorbed and not particularly observant.
 

I certainly agree about Sonia. She lives in her fantasies about David and fails to observe other people around her. Probably read too many Harlequin Romances as a teen.

As to the contaminated clothes, they should have been thrown away in a container labeled Biohazard.

I catch the follow-up to this; should be interesting.

BTW, does anyone else hate the female vocals in the soundtrack? I can't stand those voices.
 

"Miguel's a good guy and smarter than David about the vineyard but I want to see those piercing hot looks of desire and wonder to be rekindled between David and Luci and then quenched with some deep kisses".

That was amazing Lila. Oh my. I do too Lila, I do too! ;)

Diana
 

Really, Urban, I find those songs kind of soothing, it kind of gives a softness to how I perceive Luci's thoughts -- she's had to fight so much since she returned to the vineyard, those songs kind of smooth out her rough edges.
 

Diana, you know I luvs me some novela passion! I don't feel that with Miguel, but boy, do I with David! ;)
 

The first thing Sonia could do is tuck in her shirt/blouse. Nothing says doofus like an untucked shirt tail hanging out under a waist length sweater. I am sure they are doing that to the poor girl to enhance her ugly duckling persona, and it is working.
 

Urban: "BTW, does anyone else hate the female vocals in the soundtrack? I can't stand those voices." YES. I don't hate the songs per se, but that little-girl voice really turns me off.
 

Thanks, Sonia.

Where to begin? Well, in our not too distant past, farmers were given all kinds of pesticides to spray....like DDT. Many developed respiratory disease...my friends' fathers and mine . Dangerous stuff, but they did not know that. Just like everyobe bkussfully smoking back in the day.

What is up with Dave's dimness , especially concerning Juan? Were they roommates in college....frat bros?

Unlike many of you, GS just does not do it for me. I am tired of his two notes...sad..and pissed. I like Miguel's positivity and vitality. Maybe it's the workboots....reminds me of all the farm boys I grew up with. I think that guy could throw some hay bales around with ease .....I was going to say ease and grace, but I do not want him anywhere near GRace ...although she needs some throwing around. Plus, the hombre can dance.

I never imagined that fernando might be Luci's dad, but that is a familiar theme in telenovelas.

I think that Juan is going to regret giving those papers to Perla and Perla is a naïve little fool to put up with the disrespectful way he treats her. Juan is a user and an abuser. Run girl.

 

Sorry...that should have been ..everyone blissfully smoking.
 

ONE needs to slap Perla around really good, enough to leave marks that Carita can see and question. Per then needs to tell CaritaDarito what he did to her and the two girls get good and mad at ONE. Mad enough for Per to give the little secret envelope with the Succinic Acid receipt among others to Miguel, or Susan. Not to DimBulbDave, and let his bright helpers build the case against ONE.
 

To Our Sonia, I raise a glass of the Reserva to toast a great recap. Then, whenever Diana, Lila and Urban trade comments, there's not much more I can add.

Kirby, I'm enjoying your perspective on the manly side of things. We more demure demoiselles are frequently not aware of our own appearance/actions on the male vistas, while being rather catty and cruel about others of our persuasion. Ah, me, it's what makes the world go around.

Perla, Perla, it's hard to feel sorry for her. She's been wanting a piece of Juan since before she hit puberty. Now that she has him (for better or for worse), she's blind to what he is really like. She's had those blinders on for years--it's all she knows. Most men don't treat their women like that. For that I feel sorry for her. We need to have Carito's cousin show up and hope he's a better man than Juan in the relationship department. Maybe that's why his "persona" was introduced. Otherwise, why?

Luci sure turned up at David's vineyard at the right moment and in the middle of a work day, no less. Interesting that in the time it took her to get to Sta. Barbara and a few hours later, she had a full report on what the status was of Mr. Equis' vineyards--printed and in a binder.

As for Juan, he can just take a vacation on the spur of the moment--a day early? And take another employee with him? Without letting her pack or get her bag? I thought those poor overworked employees only had Sundays free. In any caso, Juan's only defense for the prohibited pesticide is that it was the supplier that switched the product--so it was not his fault. We'll see. David needs to ask for those receipts.

The moment Marta told Lilian she'd had a long-term affair with Don Fernando, my mind immediately jumped to Luciana being his and Marta's child. Interesting development...did she say that to irritate Lilian, or was she telling the truth.

Nothing to add about Lilian, Gracie and Fernanda--cut from the same cloth. (Well, Fernanda might be a little flimsier, but she being trained by the best.)
 

Anita...I think that Fer is young enough to be redeemed..but Tia and Grammy...too late..those ships have sailed. Liliana is so bitter. It must suck to be her. I got a kick out of Liliana and Sonia nibbling and gossiping in the kitchen. The anvils are hanging over that mother daughter combo, but they will
Probably both cause a lot of damage and woe before karma strikes.
 

Perla is DBW Steve.

Dead B.... Walking Ja Ja Ja Ja

 

Anita, Thanks. I,m not for everyone, but no one dozes off around me.
 

UA, Thanks for this riproarin episode. Somebody needs to give juan a good butkickin. He is sucha slimy cearture. And
That airhead girlfriend of his, I find her very annoying. She don't have sense enough to see shes just a pin cushion. To a pinhead. Who thinks he's smart. Dumbass.

This might be the thing in which to get lucy back home. Moma bout to die from pesticide poisining courtesy of stupid scumbag juan. And evil granny was going to watch her die, until fer came running in. Poor girl is messed up enough,
This will just push her over the edge. David is right, hes gonna have to step up and pay attention to his kids, he & lucy will be together soon enough. The only problem is slimmy gracie will be there feelin up his biceps every freakin chance she gets. Did I mention how much I don't like that pale witch in red lipstick. By the way they should tone it down abit. Unless its for the character shes playin. Ok later. Thanks Urban.
 

Thank you Sonia, I know it's late but I just got around to finishing reading your well done recap and the comments here. I am wondering too if it is really true that Marta had an affair with Lillian's husband and became pregnant with...Luciana? It just really appears that Lillian has a big hatred for Luciana as well, equal to the hatred she has for Marta.

I'm wondering what kind of illegal pesticide they were all exposed to? Anthrax? Arsenic? Ricin? Agent Orange?

I'm getting so tired of Gracie coming on to David and him not doing much about it. He needs to step up and say, "Get your grubby paws off of me!"

Oh I am really hating Juan now, he is just so abusive. If anyone is a wife/girlfriend-beater, he's on my list. Poor Perla is too naive to see through his abusive nature. She's so in love with him and wants him to "take her away from all this" attitude, she's just desperate.
 

The moment Marta told Lilian she'd had a long-term affair with Don Fernando. . .

Anita and other patio pals, did Marta say this? I thought it was just baseless innuendo to rile Lillian. Wow! My DVR cuts off early, I need to go check out the Hulu version. If she actually admitted to an affair, not only would it be totally novelaesque for Luci to be Fernando's daughter, then Lillian is not unjustified in hating her. AND, if Marta did actually have an affair with Lillian's husband, is she catty/cruel enough to have relished hanging around being a thorn in Lilli's side all these years instead of joining her family and even cultivating a relationship with Gutierez knowing who he is just to stick it to Lilli? If so, Marta is more of a contemptible wretch than Lillian!

It is interesting how the writers have Grace constantly haranguing Luci about family. . .could that be foreshadowing that Luci will one day soon be able to claim that she IS family? (Though the thought of sisters sharing men is personally odious to me, it is less so if Luci is a half sister of Lisa, didn't know it all her life and was not raised as such).

There is a beloved Brazilian novela I watched years ago with my daughter, it starts out casting this one woman as a villain and capital B BITCH and this other woman as her innocent victim. Deep into the show, it is revealed that the woman we thought was the bitch was actually the victim of the "innocent" woman who turned out to be a first order psychopathic killer. She was so bad and the surprise switch in characterizations was so masterfully done that my daughter and I were shocked and I haven't finished the novela to this day!

Anywho, that's my Saturday-before-chores rant. It would be really interesting if such a thing happened in this novela!
 

Cynthia your observation about Perla's "take me away" need is right on. That is just another indictment of the little witch. Not only is she mean and nasty but lazy too. If her situation does not make her happy, then do something about it, do not hope you can barter some bedroom..er..desktop.. action for your ticket to a better life.
 

What is that old adage that goes something like "Heaven hath no fury like a ...something" can't remember. What if nasty, insanely jealous, Perla finds ONE with Her Amazing Grace? Ya think that old saying might go something like "Heaven hath no fury like a woman scorned."? Ya think she might turn on him? T H A T would be cool. Before he strangles her, she give his secret dossier to somebody smart enough to read them. (by definition excludes DimBulbDave)
 

Thanks, Sonia. Fab recap. GLARE THE OTHER WAY DAVID is my favorite too.

Anita and Cynthia, I'm feeling sorry for stupid Perla too. She grew up parentless and fixated on grown Juan at a young age. He's like her Svengali. Otherwise, she wouldn't have let him continue to boink her only in the office. This trip to San Francisco must be blowing her mind.

Julie, in answer to your question, Miguel didn't get any of the pesticide on him but Susan did so she should be getting sick too.

I'm hoping Marta and Lillian's husband had their thing, ended it, and then Marta happily married Marcelo and had Luciana. Luciana adored Marcelo more than anything and it would be sad for him not to be her dad.

I'm confused about the vineyard and how Marta and Lillian's husband would've crossed paths. David inherited the vineyard from his dad, but what did Lillian's husband do and was he not rich or did he lose his wealth? Would he have been living at David's estate? Lillian scams with Juan like she has no inherited wealth from her dead husband. As others mentioned, Lisa and Graciela never spoke of him, so we know thing there.
 

...we know nothing there.
 

It is interesting how the writers have Grace constantly haranguing Luci about family. . .could that be foreshadowing that Luci will one day soon be able to claim that she IS family? (Though the thought of sisters sharing men is personally odious to me, it is less so if Luci is a half sister of Lisa, didn't know it all her life and was not raised as such).

This is potentially the biggest clue we have to this. If this is the case, I have to emphasize the question When and where did this happen? We don't have enough facts yet, but here is my speculation:

Lillian seems to imply that she was born in the US or UK, but did she ever live in Mexico? Was Luciana born in Mexico or was she born in the US? If the latter, she could not have been deported under our laws and Marta could not have been deported, as the mother of an American citizen. This would secure the act of deporting Luciana as a criminal act if there was any doubt in anyone's mind (although I think that if there had been paperwork filed it was already a crime). Since there is no proof that Lillian coerced Gutierrez into this, he would be held wholly responsible.

Either way, if the "affair" had been physical and had taken place in Mexico, it is likely that Luciana was born there. It is possible that Fernando had deceived Marta about his marital status and Marcos was the nice guy who waited in the wings. Marta could have learned that Fernando was married (and a father of two daughters) before knowing she was pregnant and then married Marcos on the rebound. She may have said that Luciana was premature.

I believe she loved Marcos and that this love grew over time. If Leon was born in Mexico, this would mean that the Munoz family went north at some point during his childhood and it's a typical telenovela plot-contrived coincidence that they ended up working for David who has the misfortune to have Lillian as suegra. Lillian later realized that Marta was the woman Fernando cheated on her with, hence her ill treatment of her. Marta may have concealed Luciana's parentage from Marcos all along and nobody else has a clue.

This poses several other questions:

1. Was the affair physical? That Lillian believes it was doesn't mean it was. It could have been purely emotional.
2. Did Lillian kill him or did he walk out on her after the confrontation?

The reason I asked up front when this happened is that I don't recall either of Lillian's daughters mentioning him. Lisa was easily at least 15 years older than Luciana and Graciela can't be much more than three years younger than Lisa. Neither of them has ever mentioned their father, although Lisa named her daughter Fernanda. We need to listen for Graciela to make any reference to her father, but it may not be easy to determine when he was out of their lives because Lillian's daughters may have been forbidden to mention him whenever he departed the scene.

That Luciana and Leon are so different from each other makes it easy to believe that they had different fathers, although she looks more like Marcos' child than Leon does.

The writers have a lot of explaining to do about this.
 

Wow, Urban, I can only hope the writers put even a fraction of the thought you put into thinking this through! We well know these things often has Mack truck sized holes in them! I hope they DO do some explaining and not leave us falling through the gaps.

Thoughts on your questions:

I went back and watched the confrontation between Lillian and Marta. English subtitles were on as well and it sure looks certain that Marta had a sexual relationship with Fernando and she, Marta, thought there was a deeper emotional relationship between them than he had with Lillian. Marta did not seemed shocked and probably knew at the time he was boinking other women as well but she seems to take great pride in what she sees as her superior powers of body and soul that "kept" Fernando while Lillian could not.

How did Lillian not "keep" Fernando? You're right, Urban, this is not answered. Did he kill himself? Did Lillian bust them and then demand he not see Marta and so he killed himself. Even as I type this it sounds implausible. Indeed, did Lillian kill him? Did she "accidentally" kill him as Grace did Lisa?

Nah, Marta was never a saint of my devotion but she's gone on my shit list for sleeping with Lillian's husband. Whether he was killed or walked out, I don't see what Marta is crowing about: she's just an old Perla! I don't love Lillian now, I just hate her a whole lot less!
 

I mentioned this back during PyP, but I learned to do this when I was a theatre major in college. We had to write our character's backstory as a way of learning their motivations. If directing a play (which I also did) we needed to do this for all the main characters. I filled a whole notebook on the play Sleuth which I directed in my beginning directing class in my sophomore year.

This becomes more complicated with a novela, of course, because there are so many more "acts" to the story. That's also so many more opportunities for writers to screw up.

PyP was the first novela I covered here that gave almost equal weight to both generations of lead characters and therefore a lot of what I figured out about Eladio, Julia, Arturo, and Nina had to come from lines of dialogue and noticing what they didn't say about themselves, their families of origin, or each other. That was how I concluded that Arturo was an only child whose mother died when he was very young and that his father had to have died shortly after Daniela was born since he never mentioned his mother and none of his children ever mentioned his father. Three of the "adults" had no family of origin relatives in the story and Nina never mentioned any at all.

We still don't know whether Marta knew Fernando was married at the start of their affair. Lots of women get fooled that way. Since she has a good heart -- I believe her affection for David's kids is real -- I'm cutting her that much slack here. Fernando may have later told her that he had no emotional connexion with Lillian and that sounds like major truth because she has no ability to connect emotionally even with her daughters or her grandchildren. She definitely preferred Lisa over Graciela, but I'm sure that was because she "scored" by marrying David. Graciela and Fernanda are only of value to her insofar as she can use them in her schemes.

Someone else asked whether Fernando was a financial failure and he must have been, at least in Lillian's eyes. Her San Diego digs look good, but who paid for them? If her marriage ended after he cheated on her she likely didn't get much money out of him beyond child support for the girls, if that. She has said nothing of her own parents so we have no information about their financial status. She could just be supremely greedy or fleecing David could be an act of resentment that her favored daughter actually had a happy marriage.
 

Well, I tell you what, Urban. I'm almost certain that these guys haven't crafted as elaborate a back story as you have. When they leave us with holes at the end, I'll be happy to go with what you've gleaned from what they showed us. Maybe you can do a combination hole filler/karmageddon production!
 

Urban, Lila and Niecie--Food for thought on a no-Friday-Episode-recapless-Saturday. Wonderful speculation. We will certainly have to pay more attention to interactions between Marta and Lilian. Lilian used every chance she got--when alone with Marta, to throw the affair in her face, so I'm thinking it took place at a time when Lilian, Don Fernando and Marta were all together somewhere. Lilian either found them together or D.Fer told her at some point.

Maybe it started after some occasion when L & DF came to dinner after David and Lisa got married. They probably saw each other on several other occasions and it grew from there.

The timeline doesn't fit exactly, because we DO KNOW that Lilian already hated Marta when Fernanda was still a toddler and Marcos and Luciana were deported. Lilian was already widowed/divorced and penniless living with Grace at David and Lisa's vineyard.

I wish we knew how long Don Fernando hasn't been around--dead or somewhere else. I think he died (maybe violently), because neither Lisa then, nor Graciela since, has ever mentioned as being in touch with him (but we haven't had a graveside visit, either). It took about 20 episodes for us to find out Ramon has a live ex-wife (or ex-mother to Tano) somewhere, so maybe we will still learn about D.Fernando's fate.

I lean towards all the Munoz being from Mexico and in this country either on expired tourist or temporary worker visas or entered undocumented.

Marcos and Marta feared the migra and Lilian early in the show was always threatening Marta with turning her in. David was "working" hard to get all his people working on his place to be legal--either as temporary workers or with some other type of visa. He failed with Marcos, but by the time Luciana comes back, they are all legally allowed to be there.

Urban--The technique you learned and used in your theatre work is fascinating. Were the actors also required to get into character by knowing something about each of their backstories?
 

You know, guys, I wonder if -- speaking for myself -- I haven't been a victim of the "poor Mexicans are always virtuous", "Gringoish, rich Mexicans are always the baddies" kind of thinking. Yes, David and Lisa were decent and respected the people who work in the vineyards and all. Yes, the vineyard and house staff all seem decent as well but in the nasty treatment of Lillian to Marta, I think the writers are taking advantage of the poor getting the benefit of the doubt to trick us. I can't forget the character switcheroo I mentioned above. I'm really re-thinking Lillian and Marta. The timeline is beyond my ability to figure out and I appreciate you guys who try to tease and reason it apart but I'm going to try to look at Lillian different come Monday. Just re-watching that confrontation between Lillian and Marta really helps me see why Lillian hates Marta and is suspicious of Luciana and wants them both off the property!

That said, I still like the passion and tension between Luciana and David and Gracie is still a BITCH but Lillian less so. The poor are NOT always righteous: sometimes they ARE intruders and social climbers who try to take over the big house by wielding (supposed) sexual and emotional prowess!
 

I only saw a bit of this episode, but saw the end when everyone started dropping like flies, and the Marta-Lil confrontation. Seems that in her delirium, Marta finally let the truth slip that she did indeed have an affair (either emotional or physical) with Fernando. Great surprise by the writers, but as pointed out by everyone, the timeline makes no sense! Especially since Marta, Marcos and both their kids were illegal immigrants from Mexico and spoke of the home they remembered there-- meaning they could not have been in the country any longer that little Leon's age at that point (6-8 years). When and where did this supposed affair take place?
 

Poor Fernando. Banging Lillian A N D Marta? Worst.Tail.Ever

Committed Suicide, final answer.
 

I didn't like Marta from the start and happy to learn she is not some long suffering punching bag.

Lila I'm with you "I don't see what Marta is crowing about: she's just an old Perla!" but her rich crush didn't work out and why I believe Marta keeps warning Luciana off David and encouraging Miquel. Nothing like having a lapdog like Marcos that worshiped the ground Marta walked. The poor guy never insisted she come visit after insisting she stay, ultimately sacrificing being with her to raise a child that is likely not even his biologically (Marcos may even know). Marta sees Fernanda and Bobby the grandchildren of the love of her life, enjoys sticking it to Lilian by being close to them and kept Luciana away from her prying eyes. Marta initially wanted Luciana to leave and do not believe for a minute Marta will leave the house as long as Lilian stays.

 

Looks like it, Tofie, sure looks like it!
 

Going by the interactions between Marcos and David in the first two episodes, it looked like they hadn't been there very long. Fernando had been out of all their lives for a while before the curtain went up. The affair had to have taken place in Mexico years previously for any of the timeline to make any sense at all. Lillian is likely to hold grudges forever and to seriously envy other women who get what she wants. Therefore, she envied Lisa. She may even resent Lisa's children.

It also doesn't look like Fernando had serious money. He may have come from what Lillian thought was the right kind of family, but didn't she once say something about him ultimately having no ambition (or no brains)? 90% of anything she has ever said about him was about him and Marta and the only other thing we know about Fernando was that Gutierrez and he were friends. That takes Fernando out of the Ivy League world Lillian thinks she deserves.

BTW since she desperately wants that, why is her hair so awful (most women who want an entree to that world have it straightened) and why does she have no manners? It also doesn't sound like she ever went to college.
 

Wow..some of you have put a lot of thought into the back stories of Marta and Liliana. I hope that the writers actually have crafted back stories for them. Sometimes, when I watch telenovelas, it seems as though the writers are writing plotlines as the show runs . I am hoping that this show does not turn out to have stream of consciousness writing.

Perla is a loose canon. I think that Juan just might be underestimating what she might do if he gets on her wrong side. ...whichever side that might be. He thinks that he can just do whatever he wants to her because she has been crushing in him since she was a preteen. He is a legend in his own mind....narcissistic dolt.

I still cannot believe that Dave has put up with Crabby McCrankerson all these years just because she is his onetruelove's mom.

Also, Sonia must be in this take for some reason other than her quiet longing for Dave. What is her purpose?
 

Lillian hired Sonia to be her yes woman and to do everything she says with the ultimate goal of ousting Marta. The difficulty in accomplishing that is that Marta loves David's children and is loved by them. They are not about to accept Sonia in her place.

Now there's a character with no backstory.
 

FWIW--Flash! I just looked over my notes on Vino and guess what I found. Did any of us remember this? This must have happened in the first 2-3 episodes:

"Lilian shares with Mr. Policeman that her husband cheated on her and had a child with another woman." She doesn't actually come out and say it was Marta he had the child with, but just a few lines earlier I wrote down that, "She seemed to think Marta flirted with her husband and that's why she hates her so much, but it goes deeper than that......"
 

I just watched this episode over again, this time on Hulu with the English closed captions. It seems that Marta did admit to sleeping with Fernando as she was arguing with Lillian at the end.
 

Anita and Cynthia- Thank you both for checking on the facts for us. (I have to admit I haven't watched a complete episode yet, so I doubly appreciate it.) So we have more clues that Luciana might be Fernando's child, but the timeline and location for the affair still make no sense.
 

She didn't inherit her Father's libido then.
 

Whoa, Anita! Is that right? All they need to do is straighten out the time lines. . .or maybe they just want us to go with the flow!
 

I'm inclined to agree with the comment that this wasn't thought out in advance so there is some retconning here. However, they've done worse than this in the past.
 

I remember hearing gutterize ←I don't know
About that spelling, anyway the first week I think it was, the boarder patrol guy said something that led me to think that lil's man
Was a boarder patrol officer and was killed in
The line of duty. And guttireze looked up to him as a friend and colleague. Does anybody
Have any idea who lils hubby was and what
He did for a living. Put it out there so we'll know what we're dealin with. Tho this guessing is kinda fun. Makin up "what ifs &
Whos its". Who knows maybe the writers are
Reading our comments and gettin some ideas. Yeah right!!! That'd be cool tho.
 

I watched episode #1 again and found the part where Lillian called Gutierrez to let him know that some "illegal" immigrants were going to be in town and to arrest them. My question is how would he know who he was going after unless she sent photos? Besides the INS doesn't go around doing it this way.

Also, there is a conversation between Lillian and Marta where she is accusing Marta of flirting with Fernando, but Marta is denying it. It came right after when Lillian was so angry with Luciana for running into her, calling her a wild animal. Luciana talked back to her and Lillian threatened to gouge her eyes out. Real nice, huh?
 

This is the first tn that I've seen since "quiero amarte" that was over 25 comments, of course at times QA went over 200 comments. It was a daytime show. Don't know if that had something to do with it tho. Just an observation. OK patio people, have a good weekend.
 

Hi everyone!

I just wanted to come out of my lurking to say how much I'm enjoying everyone's thoughts and contributions to this patio. :-)

I also wanted to give a special shout-out to Lila, for reminding me of one of the all-time CLASSIC novelas of any language, which she had referenced in her post at 8:23 AM. This is the Brazilian 'A Favorita', and it's an awesome piece of work.

Written by the same man who created 'Avenida Brasil', it was likewise groundbreaking in many ways. Perhaps the most ingenious- and something which no writer has ever tried again- was that for a great part of the novela the audience LITERALLY did NOT know what was going on. We know that there are two possibilities- the two conflicting stories of the main characters- but as to which one is the true one, and as such who was the hero and who was the villain, and what is REALLY going on... we had no clue. The payout, then, for the audience- when the pieces fell into place and we could make some sense of everything, then, and FINALLY know what the heck is happening, was AWESOME. It was a collective moment of 'Wow. So THAT'S what's happening!', and for many of it's viewers (myself included), there was almost glee in now being 'in' on what's happening because, of course, the story was now at that point REALLY about to begin.

'A Favorita' also tackled several issues- some controversial and taboo- that hitherto had never been discussed on Brazilian televison. One of the things that I still love about it was also the general feel of the novela. The story, director, and especially the actors were masters at NOT allowing the audience to be able to figure out what the truth was- it was uncomfortable, confusing. Then, once we knew, and the story could really commence and run in earnest, it became black- dark, brooding, hellish, violent, chaotic, unsettling. The mood, the music was almost classically gothic (the closest thing I could relate it to from Mexico would be the mood in 'En Nombre del Amor' and before that 'Cadenas de Amargura'.

Finally, Patricia Pillar as Flora. After having believed that she was a rather shy, introverted soul through much of the novela, for we the audience to discover and and then witness her as the absolute stone-cold psychopath devoid of any feeling that she truly was was truly awesome to behold, because we felt that- like with everyone else- she had fooled us (the audience) as well. All of this enabled the audience to feel even more emotionally involved with what's going on then is normal- because we, too, had been deceived. Ms. Pillar was absolutely incredible, and both she and Flora rightfully earn the place they have as one of the top three villains in the history of Brazilian television (alongside Renata Sorrah's Nazare Tedesco in 'Senorha do Destino' and Beatriz Segall's Odete Roitman in 'Vale Tudo').

Anyway, thanks so much for bringing it back into my memory, Lila! And best wishes to everyone here on the 'Vino' patio!! :-)
 

Nina, you weren't here for Pasion y Poder, then. That exceeded 25 posts almost every day. That must have been about the cast and what a great job they all did despite an extremely serious writing fail on the networks' part.

ENDA probably went over that number daily, too. Great story, well-written and well-acted, and very very dark.

I'm guessing that for all the flaws in this one it's getting attention because it takes place in the US and we're all trying to work out the plot inconsistencies vis a vis what really happens here.

BTW, for whomever asked, the actor who plays Rudolfo played the priest in Un Refugio Para el Amor.
 

Wow, thanks everyone, this shines a new light on some previous episodes.
BTW Anita, Cynthia and Urban, did you three know each other back when you were all in the CIA?

When Luci started talk of leaving, Marta never convinced me she really wanted to go with her. All seventeen times Luci announced that she was for sure definitely leaving, right then, Marta seemed like she could never look her in the eye.

If Marta has a skeleton or two in the closet, what the hell else do we not know about her? Courting Guttierez (sp) is suspect also now.

Would Gracie blow a head gasket if she realized that NOW her half-sister is about to be married to California's dumbest troll?

Susan is so pretty, I wish she didn't dress like a fresh wound.
 

Stevey! Thank you for the shout out and the eloquent and accurate description of the most engaging and captivating novela I have ever watched. Yes, the ending was all the things you describe and why I've been afraid to finish it! Yikes! I immediately get the feeling maybe the writers are trying to pull such a character switch with Marta. They may not be up to it though: A Favorita was a masterpiece!

Cybthia Thanks for looking back. I think Marta has lied, denied and smirkily remained silent about her relationship with Fernando. I also reviewed the end of this ep as you did and also think it was a full-on sexual and emotional relationship.

Nina! This is interesting:

the boarder patrol guy said something that led me to think that lil's man
Was a boarder patrol officer and was killed in
The line of duty. And guttireze looked up to him as a friend and colleague.

Thank you for looking back as well! This makes sense as I do remember that Fernando and Gutierez were supposedly friends.

Well. Guess we'll have to wait and see. I hope the writers did put some thought behind all this and it's not just make up as you go. It IS possible to intelligently engage and challenge an audience in a novela. Time for these guys to pick up the pace and action!
 

Lillian is firmly established as a prime villana. This is Azela Robinson's forte. Cynthia Klitbo has done great ones as well but now that she's maturing the producers probably wanted her to play some more sympathetic characters, like the godmother of Teresa.

As for whether this story is being made up as it progresses, I suspect it is. The writers seem unaware of the real dangers of some of these pesticides. I also think there is a major element of misogyny because of all the Mean Girls in the story. Three generations of them.
 

it is interesting to see how telenovelas are changing. When I first fell down the telenovela rabbit hole , I surfed into ALborada. After that I was addicted and tried to find a new telenovela after each one ended. I think that was about nine years ago. In those days, every telenovela had at least one loving mature married couple and a beloved priest to act as advisors and moral compasses for all the characters dealing with the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Recently ,the last few novelas that I have watched have substituted a therapist for the priest and there is no older solid married couple. Que pasa? Vino has no priest, no committed married couple since LIsa was killed , and no therapist. that traditional telenovela formula seems to have been dropped. TIme for new bingo cards.
 

Urban--Before I read any more comments, I had to look up the two priests in Un Refugio to see which one is Santa Barbara vineyard owner, Rudolfo.

There was Roselena's town priest, Padre Honesto played by Oscar Bonfiglio (who was also Sixto in Amor Real--somewhat thinner then) or the country priest, played by Hugo Macias Macotela (who also played Padre Severino in Cuando Me Enamoro and Padre Mateo in ENDA)

It is definitely Oscar. According to IMdb, his character's name is Adolfo--it certainly sounds pretty close to Rudolfo, but I'll go with Adolfo if he shows up again. He's had rather meaty minor roles, so I'm going to assume we'll be seeing him again. (Maybe his daughter will be a substitute for Luciana for Miguel?)
 

Nina--Quiero Amarte was a daytime show, but it was also only a weekly discussion page, so it isn't surprising it went over 100 (200-really?) for the week. I figured it averaged about 20 a day while the recaps averaged 3-4 a day.
 

That's a good thought, Anita. I'd hate to have this story resolved like the Caridad Bravo Adams triangles are, although that way led to an early acting trophy for someone I truly adore.

Raul Coronado definitely deserves leading roles in the future. He's got the look, the charisma, and he can act.

As to Adolfo's daughter, we should be meeting her soon. Mexico is 60 episodes ahead of us and she will be a regular when she arrives in the story.
 

Sonia, thank you for that recap! And Anita, thank you again so much for covering me this past Tuesday. Actually thank you to all who recapped this week - between you and YouTube, I've got the highlights and I can pick the plot up next week. I really appreciate everyone who recaps for this site as well as the comments! People always mention things I miss.

Is Adolfo the evil olive oil guy? I literally do call that guy EVOOG so if he has a character name I should learn it!

I think Marta is not the goody two shoes she might have seemed to be.
 

dy77--EVOOG, was thinner and had short silver hair (if I remember correctly), so I don't think they are the same person. We're not even sure he already owns a vineyard. His aim was to turn David's perfect "Sonoma" vineyard into an olive grove--and from the earlier comments, that didn't sound like a sound business decision in the first place.
 

The olive grower is portrayed by the actor who played Fabrizio in MIVAC. He's been in a few other novelas as well.

And how long does it take for olive trees to grow big enough or for transplanted ones to adapt? That plan doesn't make any sense at all.
 

Fruit Production

At about five years of age olive trees will begin to bear fruit. Fruit only develops on branch growth from the previous year, so take care in pruning to not remove older wood. Olive trees are pollinated primarily by the wind, but their flowers can be damaged by heavy winds. Fruit develops in the fall, unlike many other fruit trees that bear fruit in the late spring or summer.

Life Span

Olive trees can live to be over 500 years old. Additionally, they have an ability to regrow if cut down or damaged. With such a long life span, the trees can obviously withstand a great deal of neglect, damage and temperature fluctuations.
 

Thank you for giving us the information on olive trees, Kirby. Mr. ex-Fabrizio must have some other means of livelihood to be able to wait for 5 years for his first returns.

Some of what you described sounds a lot like my fig trees. I have the beginnings of a fig tree plantation (3 trees in a small lot) here in the mid-Atlantic (not known as a good fig-growing area). But I keep trying. My big one has died twice in wacky winter weather and rebounded from the roots to bear fruit again.
 

Wow! I'm sorry I missed this great weekend conversation. I hope the plot and timeline were better thought out than they appear to have been.

KJ: "Susan is so pretty, I wish she didn't dress like a fresh wound." The mummy-dress was an poor choice for Susan. Between that and the monstrosities we saw in TVA, I'm wondering what the hell is going on in Televisa's wardrobe department.
 

Susan needs a major makeover, especially her hair. Those spiral curls and the uneven color do not suit her class or professional position.

And if she is supposed to be a gringa, this actress had better learn to speak English like a US native.
 

Hee, I can tell who may not have watched Lo Imperdonable - believe me this is a big improvement for the lady playing Susan, wardrobe-wise and dialogue-wise!
 

Anita good luck with the Figs. The Fig, Olive and Grape are the "Fruits of Life" throughout the history of man. Did you know fig trees do not 'bloom' in the way we humans expect? They actually do, but the blooms are hidden inside the fruit, (the fig). That explains how they bear fruit without any visible flowers to pollinate like we expect to see.
 

I believe you, dy77. There was a "fashion show" in TVA where the dresses looked like they were inspired by police dogs. I should be used to weird clothes by now, but they still manage to surprise me.
 

Oops I got out of character there for a minute. I will now go back to wanting to kill Mr. X for being so dumb and wanting to see Miss Y and Z in their underwear.

Sorry

kirbo
 

Come on girls, I thought Susan was sexy as hell in Lo Impossible, in a primitive kind of way. "NancyGaga want to kiss Tonto, does Tonto want to kiss NancyGaga?"
And:
Which end of the police dog supposedly designed the TVA Frankendresses?