Caray, Caray!

Well, I'm not up for a fullon research paper, but I'll make some observations with my limited telenovela experience. Let's see, Hipolita fooled around and fell in love [shout out to Rod Stewart here] , and she was whipped in the town square. However, hubby Antonio also fooled around with ever -accomodating Perla and got skewered straightthrough by Diego. Luis committed adultery with Hip and Perla and survived despite being shot by Diego's hired gun Gasca. Manuel shacked up with nasty Antonia when he and the always lovely Matilde [who lusted after Aldolfo only in her heart but never did the deed] were seapated. Manuel got battered and bloody in the revolution, but he survived. Aldolfo , on the other hand, also never technically cheated on his wife [heartlusting only], but he got shot quite dead. Susanlynn, thinking about what a wild, wacky, and wonderful world we live in now that we can Goggle anything and everything
 

Susanlynn you are the GREATEST. You have been leaving wonderful comments, here and at Pratie Place, for so long. You deserve an award. Thank you.
 

Wow...Thanks...high praise , indeed, coming from a Renaissance woman and telenovela connoisseur such as yourself!!! After a long day of real life, I hop right here [often even before I've changed into my comfy clothes and made a cuppa tea.] What a stress reliever this site has become for me !!!! Thanks for creating a nice place for my mind to vacation after a day filled with responsibilities and obligations. Susanlynn, crossing her fingers about the pirates P.S. I've been thinking...maybe we folks here at Caray, Caray Place should write our own telenovela. After all, we know what we like.
 

Great idea to write our own telenovela, but it's always easier to edit or comment on an existing script than to start from scratch. Actually, I think many of our telenovela writers are quite talented in the way they weave complicated plots and multi-entangled relationships. I am quite impressed and wonder if any of them write hard copy novels.
Re; CHEATING SPOUSES--I have often wondered whether the Latin men of the last generation or two take a higher moral road when it comes to spousal fidelity: Es decir, is it still an accepted cultural phenomenan for Latin men to cheat? When I lived in Mexico 30 years ago, it was well accepted by men and expected by women.
 

The Latino men whom I've taught are very different than American men. They compliment you and say ''I love you'' instead of ''Thanks for teaching me those verb tenses.'' They are much more affectionate and emotional than most American men I've known.The Latino women are also very affectionate. They will stand or sit very close to you and expect hardy kisses when they greet you and when they say goodbye. As for the extramarital affairs, I really don't know .Susanlynn
 

As a Latin woman I can tell you that yeah, extramarital affairs are something that is expected from men. I think it has to do with what Susalynn said, Males are very affectionate. My father was proof of that, he was a "mujeriego" but also a core romantic I loved to sit with him while he would sing to me "Mari es mi amor" I know he cheated on my mom because I have a brother almost my age, but since my mother died so young (I was 7) she did not had to suffer thru all of it. I loved my father but, I made a promise to myself not to marry somebody like him. It is sad that as women we have to choose between man that either don't tell you they love you, don't sing to you, but are faithful and responsible, and men like my Dad that know how to treat a women but have so much were to choose from that can not stay with just one, they have to love them all. I know for a fact that when my father looked at you at the eyes and told you I love you, he meant it, but he said it so often and to so many women that eventually it did not have the same value. As of the question, I don't think novelas answer it, because most of the romance we see in novelas is between people that are cheating on their wives and husbands and most of them are the heroines of the story, still we love see everything that happens to them and how they overcome all the barriers.
Maricruz feeling very filosofical today.(Sorry for copying the way you sign off Susalynn it'll be just for today) :)
 

Maybe my memory is bad, but watching novelas as a girl, cheaters were generally brought to justice, devine or otherwise. I think that is because novela execs worked under the premise that cheaters are bad and need punishment, and that non-cheaters are good and should live happily ever after. The execs needed to render justice and give watchers that happy ending if they wanted funding for their next novela. Unfortunately, real life is not always that black-and-white.

I do find it interesting that in more recent novelas, the cheating thing is not so black-and-white anymore. Hipolita and Luis technically cheated even though they were "good". Can one be "good" and a "cheater" at the same time? There is also Remedios and Pedro in Barrera, Lety and Fernie in Fea, and now Gabe and MA in Mundo.

I guess that means novelas are beginning to mirror the real world a bit more... a tiny bit, that is.

If divine justice existed in the real world, my boss would be Fernando Mendiola... sigh!
 

Mariacruz, thanks for the philosophy, and I love the way Susanlynn signs off and EVERYBODY could do it!!!

Melinama, feeling fond of her friends at Caray, Caray!
 

As a divorced american woman I remember all to well wishing my ex would have an affair so he would just LEAVE me alone. Marriage is hard, and long. So I can understand if a culture accepts the idea that is ok to cheat here and there but not to break up the family. That is the most painful part really, the destruction of the family. Of course if you are madly in love and your love cheats on you it is painful. No one likes being deceived. But if you married someone who from the get go refuses to be comitted what can you expect?

Now to continue being the devils advocate what if you have had a long marriage but things have gotten stale. You dont want to leave, but seeing another on the side might help you weather the storm. Couldnt it be said that the acceptance of the affair helps the longevity of the marriage?

Im not sure personally where I stand on this issue, minus what I said about my ex, and not wanting a consumate filanderer. I appreciate that we have the opportunity to put our two cents in and to hear others opinions. Thank you everyone for sharing!
 

Maricruz~~~I was very interested in your comments, and I loved your sign off!! I married my high school sweetheart who [to the best of my knowledge] has always been faihful [not even lusting in his heart] and the best husband, father, son, and friend I know, BUT he is a WASP and a jock and not the most romantic guy I know [especially since I teach a lot on Latinos]. He does, however, give my roses and a very mushy card and takes me out to dinner every birthday and anniversary and hasn't forgotten even one. When we watch Alborada or Amor Real together [he bought the full DVD sets of both for me], I always hope Luis and Manuel's romantic styles will rub off on him. Our daughters always tell me that they want to marry someone just like their dad. Susanlynn~~~ only lusting in her heart for tv hombres...trying to convince hub to call me ''mi vida''
 

Wow Susanlynn! Your real life love affair seems to be the best! I married the wrong guy and my reactions to that situation are what you get when you marry the wrong guy. You on the otherhand married the right guy. You've saved yourself from having to mentally debate marital ethics.

Who cares if your husband says Si Si everytime you call his name. Plus you can call him "mi vida" to make up for any perceived short comings on his part. ;)

Thank you for reality check!
 

I have a theory...I think that I get crushes on different hunky actors to keep a little excitement happening in a really safe way!!! I think hub unconsciously knows this and is very tolerant of my passing fancies!!! It's my form of stress relief!!He has bought me the complete DVD sets for Highlander the TV series starring Adrian Paul [the hunk I focused on while helping care for my Dad for 2 years before he died] and ''Dr. Quinn'' [I adore Sully]. Even though the character of Luis is my hero in ''Alborada'', I was just thinking the other day that hub is more like Marcos...he looks a little like him in build and coloring and ,like Marcos,he is a rescuer. He has rescued me, our girls, my parents, his parents, from all sorts of situations innumerable times.On the other hand, like dear Felipe , he is a businessman and always analytical and realistic. I had a dream the other night that hub let his hair grow long ...he would NEVER do that!!!! If I could think of a good title, our life together could BE a telenovela...we've had some sad things happen to us,,,but we are still here. Our first child, a son, died the day after he was born [heart defect], and then I had a miscarriage before we had our daughters. We've also lost our fathers, our brotherinlaw, and some dear friends, but we know how to lean on each other through bad times. Also, we've never stopped being boyfriend/girlfriend. We still do the same things we did when we were teens...go to the movies, out to dinner, to the beach, dancing, and riding around listening to music in the car. Keep looking ,Lynn, there are some good guys out there. Susanlynn,trying to think of an appropriate title for mi vida.P.S. Also, we are not biters.
 

wow, i'm learning a LOT from all this... i think i'm the only one here who's never been married yet. but since everyone's getting philosophical, i guess i'll give my two cents as well :)

... reading lynn's comment that marriage is hard and long makes me freak out a little because i've heard a lot of that too. it makes me wonder how much things change between the time you have a boyfriend (or GF) and when you get married. i have a boyfriend right now who i actually met about 6 years ago, but we were only friends until a couple months ago when we noticed that there was something more. he's the most affectionate person i've ever been with (and by the way, NOT latino...hmmm?? hehee), i believe he's faithful (i've been friends with him for 6 years and never saw anything even close to suspicious behaviour...hmm...knock on wood :)) and i think that if marriage was like that it'd be wonderful. but then reality hits me and i remember how people mention marriage is very monotonous and hard... so i want to take the opportunity to ask you experts...HOW IS IT being married?? is it worthed?? is it difficult on a daily basis?? what should one expect (or not expect??). and what do you think is the common mistake which could lead to a marriage annulment or what's the secret ingredient to a successful marriage?

as for telenovelas, i agree that generally the idea was that bad people cheat and good people don't cheat. now novelas are starting to portray a more realistic side of today's world and good people are also cheating (yes, alborada and mundo de fieras are great examples). but notice that if good people cheat, it's usually because they have a horrible partner (jocelyn!) or someone who somehow does not fulfill marriage duties (or wife/hubby who's crazy, bad, etc) such as esperanza who could not bare children. this would make the spectator feel like this cheater is not practically doing something bad because their situation justifies their cheating (note: i'm not saying i justify it).

In some cases that doesn’t happen though, for example, in 'la madrastra' hector cheats on his pregnant wife vivian on the day of the wedding because of his weakness/alcohol issues. later on she forgives him and they end up together. most of us would say that's not 'justo', plus,that's different than luis or gabriel cheating.

so i guess my answer to the question (is the divine justice for cheating spouses) is: 1) depends on the situation and 2) i'm not sure that we are right in determining what’s just. i think the word 'justice' is very broad...it's almost 'unjust' to judge a situation.... :)


ok, so now that i've confused everyone with my thoughs, i'd like to inform you that for me, the Caray Caray blogspot is the FIRST entry that shows up when i type it in google. :)

also, i want to mention that i LOVE reading your comments when i'm having coffee in the morning or taking a break at work! it's a little voyage to the imaginary world of telenovelas.

lastly, i know we all live in different cities and states, but i feel like this is such a cool 'meetingplace' already and you all sound like really fun people. thanks for all the effort put into the wonderful recaps and superfunny comments!

susalynn, your husband sounds really nice...maybe you can train him to say 'si si' everytime you make his favorite dish :)

tash, who wrote a little too much and has to go back to work before her boss gets upset at her (susalynn, your signature sign off is brilliant! it's your unique style though, so i'll also use ot only this time :))
 

Hey Tash,

Well, when I met my ex- he was barely 20 years old, a poet and an owner-worker in a bicycle shop collective. I was 22 and a sort of gypsy musician. Years passed and he became a burgher, a clinical psychologist. He wanted a much different life. But I was still a gypsy. He was never satisfied with me. I decided we had to get divorced when he bought a huge Suburban and started parking it between parking spaces (on the line) so nobody would scratch it. I'm kind of joking. But not completely.

I don't know if I would ever have the nerve to get married again. I certainly haven't had much luck in the search... I'm pretty lonely but being lonely is better than being in a bad relationship. I entertain myself well.

Melinama, alone on a Friday night watching "La Fea Mas Bella."
 

Never been married, but I've been engaged before. At first I thought there was something wrong with me for not being married. Then I looked at some of my divorced friends and realized that I'd rather do the breakup BEFORE getting ensnared in a legal relationship, with kids, common property, etc. because if you insist on marrying someone when you know it won't work out long-term, you'll also have a ton of paperwork on top of the heartbreak.

So I guess what I'm saying here is that I've been fortunate to get miserable early enough in the relationship to avoid making a big mistake. I'm not sure whether that's a blessing or a curse, but I choose to see it as a blessing. :o)

That's just in answer to Tash, who thought she might be the only SNM around here.

Getting back to the question at hand - since LMFB is my only novela so far, I probably have no qualifications to answer this question at all, but I'll make an observation:

Consider Marcia Villaroel on LFMB. She knows Fern cheats on her and it drives her crazy, but she still wants to marry him. Even her airhead best friend thinks she's an idiot for sticking with him.

But let's say she marries him anyway. Some time later, she realizes that no amount of grief, or "justice," that she inflicts on him in divorce court will ever make up for the way he has made her feel and the time she has wasted fighting for a man who doesn't want to be hers.

The only possible justice is for Marcia to move on with her life and find someone better.

I don't know what happens in novelas when someone gets married in good faith and then the spouse suprises them by being a cheater.

Actually, "divine justice" (as opposed to "poetic justice" or "dramatic justice" or "ironic justice") would, I assume, mean burning in hell for all eternity. I don't know if this has been covered in any telenovelas yet. :o)

Julie, in the middle of recapping LMFB, and who could never EVER marry someone who would park any vehicle in two spaces.
 

Tash~~~~Well, let's see---where to begin. Today, our society has become pretty cynical and negative about love and marriage. Today, the idea of romance is often scoffed at. I think that when I was growing up, the messages about marriage and love and fidelity were very clear, very positive. One of my favorite songs was ''When I Fall in Love'' [it will be forever'']---I believed that song...if I got married , it would be forever. The movies, popular songs, and tv shows depicted young love, happy marriages , happy families. So, that's what I expected... that's what I wanted...that's what I thought was possible. My own parents never divorced, but they did not have a happy marriage even though they were good parents to my sister and me. They argued and had very separate lives except for raising their children. I dated different guys in high school...I was in love with love...I was very romantic then [and I still am...I still believe in love and in happily ever after, but now I know that even if you are lucky enough to find a good mate...s*** happens to every one...however, being with a truly good person sees you going through to better days.] Being with a good person who loves and protects you makes you want to love and protect that person in return. Just before I met hub, I dated someone for half a year whom I was absolutely CRAZY about...I was truly lovesick...He was handsome and VERY romantic even though he was a WASP and a country boy...I'm quite sure there wasn't one drop of Latino blood in him !! [His nickname was Ladies Man .] .He was a real sweet talker, too, and very free with compliments. We broke up because I just couldn't trust him. There were always rumors buzzing of him being interested in other girls...so we broke up. I was so in love with him it hurt a lot. I saw my future hub one day at school a few months after we broke up. At that moment, I just remember thinking how goodlooking he was and forgetting about Loverboy for a minute or two. We started dating , and little by little, I saw what a really honest, good, faithful person he was. He was very positive, uncomplicated, and straightforward. For a long time, I didn't trust him because of the other guy...and for a long time, I thought I'd eventually end up with the other guy somehow. I carried that torch for a long time even while dating hub. Hub was always faithful...never wanted to date anyone else...very devoted and honest. In all the years we've been together, he's never changed. I think the key to a good marriage is finding a good person..someone who puts you before anyone else and always supports you and let's you be yourself. I also think it's important to believe that a happy marriage is possible. My parents didn't have a happy marriage, but stayed together anyway...but hub's parents were very close and did everything together, so he had very good role models.[Ironically, the other guy's parents also seemed to be very close and have a good marriage.] I guess luck has something to do with it,too...so, a good positive attitude and good luck,,,that's what you need for a good marriage. Susanlynn, the hopeful romantic who has a pillow that reads, ''Real love stories have no endings.''
 

Wow, you all have kind of blown my mind! Thank you for sharing these intimate parts of yourselves.

I have never been married but have just started my 18th year of "going steady" with my boyfriend. We don't like to rush things (ha!) and just a couple of years ago started calling each other "partners," but I still like to call him boyfriend because it makes me feel younger. I call his family my un-laws. He's one of the good ones and I had to kiss a lot of frogs before I found my prince. (But the frog-kissing was fun while it lasted so I'm not knocking it!) I think the thing that has worked for us is that while we do a lot of things together we also do many things separately. I truly believe he's not the cheating kind, nor am I. If either of us cheated on the other I think it would surprise both of us because we both basically loathe dishonesty; it's always the coward's way out. He's my best friend, while at the same time he drives me crazier than anybody else ever has. And bonus, he's taking Spanish with me!

I think it's amazing that somebody found Caray, Caray! through the search for "divine justice for cheating spouses." I accepted long ago that in real life there is no such thing as divine justice. The concept of justice and instant karma is just too haphazard to be part of a divine plan. Maybe that's why I like novelas, mysteries and other venues where the concepts of good and evil are fairly well-defined, where the baddies meet their appropriate fate and the goodies somehow win in the end. And when the "good" characters cheat it's usually the result of some extenuating circumstance such as (from Alborada) some hot dude making love to you while pretending to be your husband, making love to a beautiful woman to earn your freedom (also you can't have sex with your wife because it would kill her), that sort of thing.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your Telenovela insights. I'm still a bit of a newbie with Alborada being my first. Little did I know that when I started taking Spanish (and watching Alborada to help train my ear) that I would be completely hooked, not only to these crazy shows but to actually recapping some of them! I would never have predicted in a million years that I would be here now. Melinama, how do you feel about what you have started? Good I hope.

On the subject of being lonely and/or alone, I agree with Melinama, being lonely is better than being in a bad relationship. If you are alone then at the very least you are in good company...your own.

Sylvia, sitting alone but somehow feeling like she's surrounded by wonderful friends.
 

Sylvia~~~~loved your recap of why we love Alborada. You hit the nail on the head. I am very good at suspended disbelief. Isn't it interesting that everyone's life is a book , a telenovela.And in a complicated world, the clearcut concepts of good and evil of the telenovela are comforting.For several years, I was frequenting another site for Highlander the TVseries fans. We all became very close. I even met twice with some of the people at someone's home about a half hour from here and to see a Highlander movie together. The first time we met was funny. People kept saying to each other ...you don't look the way I imagined. My name on that forum was ''Stevi'' and they thought that I'd look like Stevi Nicks! Susanlynn,trying to think of a clever signoff...but it's late and I'm sleepy
 

Hey Susanlynn - that's funny - I was a huge Highlander fan also - I was on highla-l and an AOL message board for a couple of years and even had a "gathering" at my house!

Julie, off-topic and exhausted, but happy
 

Oh, Julie, but the point was, I couldn't know when I met my ex- that he would end up being a guy who would park a car between two parking spaces. He didn't even drive then, and only had a bicycle! How could I know?

I had a 5-year relationship with a guy (a musician, my Achilles Heel is that I can't always tell the difference between great music and love/sex) who I was so madly in love with his very smell made me feel faint. How ironic it was that he, above all men in my life, made me feel loved - but he was a womanizer (I love Mariacruz's word "mujeriego" and there's a good word in Yiddish for the same thing, "vaybernik" a guy who's after wives) and betrayed me just like the soaps, and made me totally miserable. Hope never to fall into one of those again.
 

I missed last nights message fest so I thought I would add a few thoughts this morning.

The things Ive learned are: 1. marriage is long and hard. 2. Love alone wont carry you through. 3. You have to have (like Susanlynn said) a good person by your side. 4. Someone who truly adores you and 5. Who you LIKE to be around.

Example: When I married my ex I had mariachis at the party. My ex got mad at me for talking with them in Spanish. I shouldve run then but I didnt. Lesson there was he didnt like me. He liked what I represented to him, my image or whatever, but me - he did not like me. Additionaly the pain Ive suffered since leaving him comes from the fact that he is also not a good person. Double whammy on me for not choosing well. Believe me I wont make that mistake again.

A realist I might be, but a cynic Im not. I believe it is possible to have a great partnership like Susanlynn & Sylvia reffered to. I believe in that. We people are made to not be alone. *And if you are alone you dont have to be lonely. Heck Id rather be with me than my ex any day!

I think the Great Puppet Master in the Sky knows how to get justice and its not for man to decided. That concept is frustrating for people so that is why, in part, we like our telenovelas. There is a resolution. We see people pay for their misdeeds and we see them rewarded for their good.

And for closing, like many of the characters in our telemovelas, Im grateful for ALL my Heridas (wounds). They have made me a stronger, more humble, all around better person. To fear jumping in is normal. To not jump though, you risk all the wonderful highs and lows gained from the experience.
 

Lynn, the question for me is, having "jumped through" once (well, more than once) I now wonder if I'll ever have the courage to do it again.

It's a good thing we don't know, when we're young, what the future holds.
 

Oh, I understood what you meant - you don't always know, when you get together with someone, what kind of person they'll turn out to be. But you met your guy when he was 20 - I think there's a much greater margin for error at that age. When one gets to be in one's, ahem, upper 30s, you pretty much know whether the guy's going to turn out to be a Suburban-driving double-parker or not, because it will probably already have happened.

I haven't done any "jumping" in ages, because that last hoop burnt me pretty badly. I'm getting the itch to jump again soon, though.
 

Melinama - Having spent years making sure I dont repeat past mistakes I accept responsibility for what happened in my life. Even so I dont know if I could marry again. Without having the right man in front of me Im not sure that I have the courage.

I do know that I wont hang around long with a man if I dont see the partnership componet working. I do know that I dont NEED to get married.

However with all that said I have to say that Im open to what life and love bring. Im open to meeting someone who could make me want to marry (never say never) but but but.... if that doesnt happen I will be more than fine. Those are the hard earned blessings for me... to know that I have climbed the hill and I dont HAVE to do it again. If the hill and the weather are just right, I know that I have the option to climb instead of an obligation.
 

I have a friend whose husband fooled around with other women [all her girlfriends knew he was a dog..selfish and conceited]...there was definitely no divine justice there....he's in Florida [a police chief]..still goodlooking and probably with a couple bikini clad bimbos...my friend has returned to teaching high school English again...she's a very pretty, funny, bright woman, but she won't date ...she went out a couple times, but said it's not for her...she's got her kids, her dog, and her friends....i hate jerry...did i say that out loud...strange thing is, he was such a fun guy ...just NOT husband material susanlynn, who can't remember dating anyone anymore and who's glad she dodged the bullet and didn't end up with lee...did i say that name out loud!!!
 

Julie~~~~so you are a highlander, too!!!---did you have a favorite episode???---mine was his trip back to scotland---were you a duncan fan or a methos fan???---i was a duncanite....when i first started watching ''alborada'', luis reminded me of duncan---i still visit the mcwow forum [''women of wisdom''] a really nice bunch of women..smart and funny---i guess i'll have to take out those old videos and check out duncan again---i loved his relationship with tessa, richie, methos, amanda, and fitz---that was a great show---i loved the locations in paris and the barge---i've tried to get my mcwow sisters interested in fernando, but nobody seems interested in the telenovela world---they tell me that adrian will be in a new highlander movie . susanlynn, grabbing her sword and reminiscing about the immortal duncan mcleod
 

I stopped watching after Duncan killed Richie, so I didn't even know there was a Duncan vs. Methos competition. I don't know who I would have chosen, given how unhappy I was with Duncan.
 

Yes...I didn't see that one coming! Do you want me to tell you how the series ended? Susanlynn, whose second fav was Richie Ryan
 

Susanlynn, please email me at jalandry a verizon punto net!
 

thank you!!! thanks for the advice and the comments. your openness about your private lives almost makes me a bit emotional (yes, i'm one of those people who cries with sad or happy telenovela scenes. my record was in amor real: when manuel was in prison saying goodbye to his son and matilde (he was going to be executed) i was so teary and snotty it took many tissues before i could see the scene clearly. also when luis was reading dona juana's letter...only 'nutella' can help me in cases like these).

your stories are very touching and yes, it makes me notice each one of us have our own telenovela going on!

susalynn, you have been blessed to have by your side a husband who is with you during good times and bad times. i'm sure he also knows what a lucky man he is! i think the hard moments you've been through make you stronger as a couple and also make you realize how grateful it is to have each other.

i agree with lynn, that regardless of your past experiences, it IS possible for everyone to find someone with whom they can be happy. i'm the kind of person who doesn't like taking risks in relationships, but a friend told me somthing similar to what lynn mentioned and i think she's very right: if you don't allow yourself to experience love you miss out on the good moments you can have with this person, and also the lessons you can learn from your challenges. that's part of the beauty of love.

lynn, melinama, julie: i hope and believe that one day you'll be with a good person with whom you'll be very happy! i have talked to many people who have gone through divorce, cheating, or horrible breakups that have left them wounded for many years. yes, it hurts horribly, but also, through those situations you grow as a person, plus you learn what it is that you should stay away from. i bet if you met a mujeriego right now you'd be able to tell immediately :) like the old saying sauys 'mejor sola que mal acompañada'.

one of the most wonderful things that we can do is to be patient and never lose hope (i mean, look at hipolita...duh! hehehe...ok, j/k...). have faith that there are many people out there with whom you can be happy and be patient until you meet this person who is different than the rest.

in regards to marriage: i have heard from several people now that it has somewhat to do with 'luck' like susalynn mentioned. and also sylvia's comment of 'we have our own separate lives' as well... i think it's essential so that you don't get in each other's way. how nice that you and your BF have such a trustable relationship for all these years.

i will keep ALL these valuable mini-novelas on this page in mind :)

-tash.