Caray, Caray!

Magnificently thorough recap. Did anyone notice Pamela's voice sounded like someone on some serious downers? I guess she needs central nervous system depressants to maintain the immobility necessary to her role. It looks like we're in for a reprise of the same ole cat 'n mouse game we saw at the Corporativo--except this time, the two principals will be down the block from each other instead of down the hall. I won't mind missing the series for most of August, until we start moving toward resolution again. Oh, but there's Frankie and Sofia's wedding to look forward to.
 

Ugh, Frankie and Sofia. I don't get what his endgame might be, what with the cockamamie story about Japan and all.

I love that Gavi has this new job. With Montalvo Corp. in so much peril and Gavi involved with a competitor, this could be the chance she's been hoping for to crush the Montalvos like bugs.
 

Hi...can someone translate what the preview is for Monday. I saw Rod and Gavi looks like they were argueing while people was watching them. And what was Rod saying to Gavi when they were sitting at the table talking?
 

I maybe wrong but I don't think Gavi is with a competitor I think she is with the regulatory committee for Tequila. I for one am glad Rod is back in full blown stalker mode..gosh otherwise what would he fill the endless hours with?
 

I could just smack Rodrigo for being so stupid, but when I see them together again, I go all gooey. I know it won't last (again) but I enjoy the sweetness of their relationship.
 

Great recap Jardinera. I agree with you Julie I just don't understand what Frankie's endgame is. Is he angling for a job at Montalvo? Perhaps, as Jardinera has mentioned, this is where the slavery ring/mysterious caller thing comes together and Sophie's the new bait. Either way he's trying to get money. And for Sophie's tampering with Rod's life the novela deities will make sure she suffers either with marry to slimy Frankie or as his ho.

Karen
 

I believe he's screaming, "So let them take us to the police station and lock us up!" Gavi says, "Ok, but in separate cells!" He screams back, "They better be ones right next to each other so that we can keep on yelling at one another till we're so hoarse we've totally lost our voices!"
 

Thanks Jardinera, you are so good at this. By the way, how much Spanish have you had? I'd give my right arm to be able to understand and translate even half this well. Also, Beckster, if you're listening, the other day you said that you don't speak Spanish. You're kidding right? How did you learn to translate? You all have such great talent .. I'm amazed. Anyway, I agree that it looks like the chase is on again. It seems that what the writers see as high drama and suspense gets old after so many episodes. I'm addicted though,its the highlight of my day. Now, if only Gavi would only learn to listen to others (like Rod) in the same manner that she demands to be heard.
 

p.s. When Gavi's walking with Susana he grabs her arm and says, "You have to listen to me! You have to hear me out at all cost."

At the table Rod says, "This is not an easy thing for me to tell you. Aaron said all sorts of nasty things about you. He poisoned my head..... [then a bit later] "I still haven't told you the most awful part of the story." "--Uh-hmm. We'll see!" She's not exactly convinced. "--The reason I came to hate you so much!" This gets her attention.
 

Gavi is working now as a lowly executive assistant/secretary for the Tequila Commission's head biologist in charge of controlling the current infestations of agave in their region of Mexico is the way I understand it.
 

I can identify with Gavi's job. I used to work as a lowly secretary/executive assistant to the head biologist of the Great Lakes Fishery Commission, engaged in mortal combat against the deadly sea lamprey. My office was full of big jars of preserved fish species, some 40 years old, and a 3-D big plastic exhibit of a lamprey sucking the life out of a rainbow trait. Nice.
 

Thank you for the response to my earlier question. Thank u :)

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Anonymous said...

Hi...can someone translate what the preview is for Monday. I saw Rod and Gavi looks like they were argueing while people was watching them. And what was Rod saying to Gavi when they were sitting at the table talking?

Sat Jul 28, 07:58:00 PM EDT

*****************************
Response:
p.s. When Gavi's walking with Susana he grabs her arm and says, "You have to listen to me! You have to hear me out at all cost."

At the table Rod says, "This is not an easy thing for me to tell you. Aaron said all sorts of nasty things about you. He poisoned my head..... [then a bit later] "I still haven't told you the most awful part of the story." "--Uh-hmm. We'll see!" She's not exactly convinced. "--The reason I came to hate you so much!" This gets her attention.
Permalink posted by Jardinera654 : Sat Jul 28, 09:48:00 PM EDT
 

I hope the recapper for Monday's episode will elaborete what Gavi and Rod was urgueing cbout in front of the croud? also the coversation they hsd at the table,I hope Gavi would be reasonable to listened to Rod at this this so they can hatch a strategy on how to catch Aaron in his wickedness and so is Isadora.
 

Sorry, you're right. I wasn't reading OR listening carefully about Gavi's new job.

Sure she's just a lowly assistant now, but I bet she gets promoted before long and is put in a position where she HAS to give the Montalvos some grief... even if she doesn't want to.

I guess it makes sense that Frankie wants a job with the Montalvos. Now if only he had some skills...

It's not so weird that some of us can understand Spanish but not speak it well. Most of the time, you need to know only a little bit of grammar in order to untangle and translate a sentence into your own language. Putting a sentence together from scratch is a whole different story!
 

Hey Destilando Cafe - that 3-D lamprey and trout thing - did it look anything like when Frankie kisses Isa?
 

I can catch very little when it is spoken..it is like Julie said, I have the root words and try to untangle the sentences from the captions...I'm more of a action person..my translations are always sketchy on the dialogue..but chuck full of fashion detail and the longing looks of angst...plus these things are pretty easy cause the whole thing is so over the top...I can not remember ever seeing a subtle gesture or nuance..it is always full bore. Like when Gavi was belting out "Gaviota" at full bore in her office and Isa & Minnie were in the hall. I mean maybe in a classic drama, Isa would have pull Minnie aside and told her, but here we have a full freekin meltdown in the hall & then in the boardroom with the employees coming in to see why the two wives of the heads of the company are screaming and of course Gavi missed the melt down cause she was cranking it like it was her audition for a new Andrew Lloyd Webber's "Gatos de Tequila"
 

"It's not so weird that some of us can understand Spanish but not speak it well.....Putting a sentence together from scratch is a whole different story!"

Julie: ain't that the truth! That's the problem when you're not in a position to have to speak or write a foreign language. I guess there's a lot to be said for immersion.

P.S. Sorry , Anonymi. Let me improve on Rod's statement "él me envenenó la cabeza" a bit more, 'cuz I always get caught up on literal translation: "He (Aaron) filled my head with bitter thoughts..." sounds much better and more typical of the romantic way they express themselves in these things.
 

beckster: C/C, video remotes with a working rewind << button, and a good Spanish/English dictionary always work for me,too! You're just a true "empath", like Marina Srtis on Star Trek Enterprize.
 

"that 3-D lamprey and trout thing - did it look anything like when Frankie kisses Isa?" --Or when Brad Pitt kisses Angelina Jolie? (Gag me already!)
 

It drove me nuts that first Rod and then Gav droned on with the entire love story to the head of the tequila board. Both of them should have known better than that, it was so so juvenile and unprofessional! It's not like we needed to hear the whole story again - or if they felt we'd forgotten it, they could have recapped it to the Virgencita. In real life no important guy would have put up with that.
 

Thanks Jardinera and other recappers. I can watch myself now as my Dish has been fixed!
 

It seems we have Minnie with whiplash wearing a red dog collar to hold her head in place and playing beyond silly juvenile games to make Aaron more angry. Has she ever heard of the oppositie sex to get a man totally fired up?Then we have "hug a thug" Frankie laying the charm on an oblivious Pilar and past stupid Sofia..Would one rushing to the alter not want to know about about this man's family?What's next? Rod convincing Gavi the new baby Montalvo is divine intervention?

Frankie will probably end up in a scam against the Montalvos,once he marries Sofia.and continue hot & heavy with Isadora,who will be hanging out in the hallway. The end for for him cannot be too pleasant, I believe.
 

Well, maybe Frankie's a survivor like that sea lamprey, still sucking on trout in the Great Lakes after years and millions of dollars fighting it. I think his worst punishment might be to have to go home and live with mama for a while, hanging his fancy clothes in their miserable room and waiting for his next victim, who will be downscale from the Montalvos, maybe middle class, really overweight and lonely. That's just a guess. However, I have another question--coming late to this novela, what is Aaron's scam exactly? What's wrong with the tequila he is shipping and why did he need Corporativo money and tequila for his own business?
 

I hope this is what others remember about it:

Aaron had just got his doctorate in Business and took over the MC Corp. directorship. He thought the company needed to expand its horizons and enter the 21st century with a top of the line tequila brand in addition to the others. Bruno was opposed to the high cost of financing this project to get it launched and profitable. So, Aaron fires Vid and hires a skanky shady lawyer in Oñate to work with bottling contacts to ship watered-down versions to places for premium prices without the Commission or the family knowing. The extra profits would cover the expansion costs. Bruno had to loan him 40% of the liquid assets to help him for the first year. Aaron conveniently forgot to repay the loan. Now with the diseased crops and the US bioterrorism embargos cutting into the regular priced stuff's shipments, placement and sales to long-time customers, the Tequila manufacturers are all on the brink.
 

I too would love to be able to translate the novela into english. I have the root words as well. I can read spanish books fairly fluently and I can sing the spanish songs, with the lyrics; however, I do not recognize the words unless I see it on paper first and then I recognize them in the songs. I do not recognize most of the words in the Novela either ; yet I can speak spanish to myself and I have a tutor for an hour a week, just speaking in spanish; yet I watch the soaps and only get words here and there. I watched the whole year of la Fea and most of Amor de fieras. Now this program and I don't see me understanding the spanish words any better. I do notice myself understanding subtly better, talk proggrams, where there is no music in the background. I sometimes wonder if that is the reason it is taking so long to understand. I know with my own language, I don't understand what they are singing, in fast songs, due to the music??? Any thoughts on this Ret

Oh food for thought. Francisco says he and sophie will go away for a few years and she agrees. Maybe this is only so Granny pilar will offer him a job. She would be forced to do this so sofia can stay here???
 

I wonder if Frankie will end up in on the scam with Aaron and Oñate? They (and Elvira) would make quite a team... and it'd be such a treat when they all get run over by a train, or whatever well-deserved unhappy fate befalls them.
 

Hey Ret - I have a lot of trouble understanding song lyrics in English too. It's always a big miracle when I understand any part of a song in Spanish. So don't feel too badly about that. :)
 

Diane: Tks! Learning Spanish has been a passion of mine for the past 4 years. I took 18 months of Community College classes and early on discovered the value of CC when watching telenovelas and such on Uni. Drive time lends itself to instructional CD's which also helps "the ear". It's a daily struggle, but keeps me mentally active outside work.
 

To Julie. I needed that support. I get excited when I pick up a few spanish words in the songs, "without the music sheet". I seem to understand Mark anthony's Escapamanos and I don't think it is only cause the song is slow. I think he probably has a clearer voice. Aqui Estare is clear as well. I actually sing along with Shakira with Sordomuda; however, I would never have recognized the wordss had I not had the spanish lyrics.

Jardinera - I took three classes. Intro, Spanish one and two. Next is Intermediate 1 and 2. I must put about 5 hours a day in on spanish. Between two hours of soaps, my cds in the car spanish and my computer spanish program that I can speak to and listen to spanish speakers talk slower. I must be really thick. I did notice that that new program Timberichi is good with the captions. When singing, the captions are almost exact to what is being said at that moment, instead of a few lines latter. Maybe this will be the breakthrough. Looking at the people singing and out of the corner of my eyes, seeing their words. I can't find out what timberichi is though. I am assuming they are trying to find a new rock band???? I had trouble watching Lafea using the captions because I wasent watching her facial expressions and lip movements and I was at the point of just reading the captions. When I turned them off, I started picking up words again; owever, with the Timber show, the words are there at the same time they are being said. I find it a little easier.
 

Thanks as always Jardinera for the great recap. I know this site is about the telenovelas, but I really appreciate the additional information on Mexican culture and the language. I’ve recently become a little obsessed with the desire to achieve some level of competence in not only understanding what I hear but also being able to actually put sentences together and communicate. I’ve used Rosetta Stone, books on conjugation (still working on that), watching telenovelas and listening to Spanish language music (including Jaime Camil!). I even eavesdrop on conversations in a restaurant we occasionally go to in a predominantly Hispanic area of the city to see how much I can understand (still not much). Now I’m enrolling in a Community College class for Spanish for Travelers. My husband and I are going to spend a week in Mexico City in January, so that’s providing me with additional motivation. It’s nice to hear about other’s experiences with the learning process!

My take on Frankie’s Japan story is that he’s counting on Abuela Pilar’s unwillingness to allow Sophie to leave and he’s expecting an offer to join the family business. I’m kind of surprised it wasn’t immediately forthcoming. It will be amusing to see his reaction if his plan doesn’t work (although I’m sure it will).
 

Thanks so much Jardinera! I never knew the details of this whole scam till just now, when you explained it so clearly. All I knew was that there was a while lot of funny business going on in every which direction with Aaron, the disgusting lawyer, and one of the lab workers who was being paid well.
 

Ret: you're right, when you turn off the CC you're forced to listen closely and you can pick it up and hear it much more easily, I agree. Just because the CC lags behind a bit doesn't mean your brain doesn't catch it though. How else do you explain your increased comprehension, otherwise? I will many times review a tape first with and then without the CC to make sure I know what I'm listening for. --As for the novelas, many of the actors have a lazy tongue and just don't enunciate very well; it's painfully obvious to those of us not born to the language.//

Rhonda: What part of St. Louie is the Hispanic part? It merits a visit.
 

I'm really bad..I have been around it for 20 years, when my husband is around friends or family it is only spanish...I can catch the idea, & I can follow along..I just can not construct answers back..also I have a bit of AADD & like sitting in a cafe in Mexico sitting...someone walks by on the street and I totally distracted..
It's like the saying "I don't have AADD I just...OMG did you see that squirrel?", but I am much better at my husband on non verbal clues, I can spot a fight about to break out..or hookup or things like that way before he can..Also really bad fashion
 

sorry but I am at work on a break and the whole distraction thing is happening..I apologize for all the type-o's
 

Jardinera – I was probably exaggerating when I called it the “Hispanic part”. It’s only about a ten block area that has Mercados (really cool for a gringo like me to visit) and other businesses focused on the Spanish-speaking population. There are many restaurants that claim to be authentic, I know the food is definitely different than other so-called “Mexican” restaurants. It’s an area close to Benton Park, most of the businesses are on Cherokee Street, just West of South Jefferson.
 

Melinama - I completely agree with you on both Rod and Gavi going into the details of their relationship with the head of the Tequila Board. Incredibly unprofessional. And I don't believe his comment to himself after Gaviota left his office would have been about their love!
 

Thanks to those who take the time and effort to recap. Unfortunately learning a new language takes time and in the description of the curriculum at the local community college, it is mentioned that the objective is to learn to read, write, listen and speak - all different phases of learning a language.

I think I've mentioned before that I'm fluent in a South Africa Dutch dialect called Afrikaans. I don't have a clue about the grammatical structure - subjunctive and that stuff - we just learnt it. But that it was compulsory to leant it at school for 12 years.

Also about the difficulty of understanding lyrics, I enjoy going to the Michigan Opera Theatre. They have subtitles - even when the opera is in English.

After 2 semesters at a community college, I'm trying to learn Spanish on my own. I got bored with learning only Spanish verbs. I'll see how far I can get this way.
 

To Jardinera364 You have a point about the CC's sinking into the brain even if I am not paying attention. Also sometimes after something is said, I wonder about a word or two that sounded familar but I couldn't place the way it was said and just about that moment, i see the word on screen. I have a tutor. she was a biology major when in school. She is from Bogota and has been in the states for 6 years. She has a strong accent but talks english pretty good. So many times she says things and I don't recognize the words and here, it is because I myself was pronouncing them wrong in my practice and therefore did not comprehend when they were spoken right. When put on paper I am surprised at some of the words I know like my own name; yet did not recognize them when said by my tutor. I have to consider the soaps as well. La Fea spoke with a mouth full of lead. Fern spoke fast as did Simon.HOwever, It was not too bad listening to marcia or especially alicia. I think it is easier understanding the talk programs.
 

Has anyone watched any part of Amor sin limites. OMG the other night, Diego put his lips acerca de Azul's breast, while he bit off the thread that he was using to sew her broken shoulder strap. I thought I would have a heart attack. Plus the way he looks at her. I don't think his gaze is as good as Fernano's to lety, but it is a close second. Rod and Gav are intense too but the gazes I don't think compare. However, Rod's and Gavi's kissing is all that. Fern and lety's always appeared awkward, but Rod and Gaviotas son muy romantico. Some of the commercials showing Diego kissing Azul, on her face, nose, side of nose, etc. Is excellent as well. Is he a new actor?? They showed someone that looked something like him, on Angelica Vale Special Fridy, but the guy looked very scrufty. I am not sure it was him.
 

Jardinera^^^Thanks for another great recap. As for the conversation about learning a language, I teach English to foreign adults. I have read that to become completely fluent in a language [grammar, pronunciation, listening comprehensiom, vocabulary development] takes 5 to 7 years. I teach at a community college , and our program includes a noncredit free program for beginners and a credit program [the program that I teach] for intermediate and advanced students which includes 2 levels each of speaking/listening, grammar/writing , and reading comprehension/vocabulary classes ...followed by a 6 credit course called English for Academic Purposes [which is an advanced writing/reading course] and Accent Reduction. The goal of our program is to get foreign students ready to take classes in American colleges. I have noticed that some students excel in reading and writing , while others excel in speaking /listening. Also, in the classes that I teach, I have noticed that students sometimes are better at listening than speaking/pronunciation and vice versa. I have come to believe that learning a language has a lot to do with your own particular learning style [ex. I am a visual learner and do better with reading and writing ..others learn better through listening and are better at listening comprehension and speaking.]. I tell my students to watch TV with closed captions in English and listen to songs. A few years ago, I had a 19 year-old guy from Syria who used ask me the meaning of phrases like ''careless whispers''...I finally realized that he was listening to rock music and picking out words.
 

I used to teach English to native speakers of Spanish (adults) and it drove me crazy. (I would have pitchforked Mr. James by now--"you're supposed to mess up the vowels, not the consonants, you faker!"). I switched to little kids--and wow they were SO much better. Then I taught Spanish to native English speakers at a major university and had a blast doing it. I think an early start is the key.
 

Thanks, Susanlynn! I have to agree with both you and Desti: different people have separate/different parts of their brains that grab and assist learning language by different means, depending on which part of the brain is "stronger"/"more efficient"(?) and the little ones do pick up a language a lot quicker and with less if any accent than us older folks, according to some of the professional learning material I've read along the way.

So for me, with the limited vocabulary I can retain and capture both visually and audibly at my age, I feel blessed. At least I know if I had to live in a Spanish speaking culture I could survive and function pretty well, and now I know that within 5-7 years I would function superbly, huh! "/; ? ))
 

I'm learning Spanish on my own for almost a year since the middle of last August with grammar books, audio courses, etc and telenovela world became a very important part of my studies. Back in September I started to watch LFMB. At first I was checking almost every word in the dictionary but by the end it was almost without dictionary. But closed captions a must. Destilando is my second telenovela and I definitely see improvement. They speak much more comprehensible in Destilando so I even catch what have been said without captions sometimes.
Just a note - English is my second language so I still have some limits.
Eve
 

Anon 4:15

No Valentin Lanus is not a new actor. He has been in novlas for at least 10 years although not usually as a lead. He has a lot of charm but doesn't fare well in intense dramatic roles. I too saw that program about Angelica Vale and couldn't place where they had worked together before.
 

I can't do the vowels...but I had an extensive background in reading..like when I was a kid I read anything I could get my hands on. When I took 2 classes in college of spanish we had to learn words that are similar in english/spanish...which both have latin roots..well the english version may now be kinda obsure and not used often..but from reading so much I had the basic knowledge...
 

I always tell my students to let me know if they dream in English. That's supposed to be a very good sign that your brain is starting to think in that language. Do any of you think in Spanish ?
 

sorry...correction...Do any of you dream in Spanish ?
 

To Susanlynn. I don't dream in spanish; however, when I am speaking to my clients (I am a mental health therapist), I sometimes can not think of the english pronunciation on some of the words that are similar to spanish, such as restaurant, dictionary. I would say dictionario. Sometimes I would slip and say, No es importa para me. When I am reading part of an article, is when I would most likely have problems pronouncing an english word in english. I was told I am thinking in spanish. I guess so, it is the only thing on m y mind. I am obsessed that I want to be able to hold a conversation with a spanish person in a therapeutic environment. I too can read spanish well. I know most of the conjugations. I have John Grays books in spanish (men are from mars and women from venus). I have computer programs I talk to and then play "fish" and then the crossward puzzles. But none of this is helping me understand someone who is speaking spanish. Go Figure??? This is for eveyone. Something funny. I have a spanish client in my groups at work He is puertorican. I let him try my spanish program that is on my computer at work. When you talk, it lets you know how well you sound in spanish. My gauge went to the extreme right for excellent. His went halfway. DUH ROTF.But it doesn't change the fact that I am brain dead in understanding. Ret
 

Anon, I guess that means that the man on Angela's show, was Diego of Amor sin limites? He was horrible there; yet in his soap, he is nice looking.
 

Anayanmous, You said it takes 5-7 years to learn it fluently. That explains my problem; however, you also stated that you teach intermediates. Our local college Bucks Community has the Intermediates; however, I was told that from the minute you walk in there, it is in spanish. Now I ask, with all I know about spanish now, I would pass by flying colors, if she put what she had to say on the board; however, I would not be able to do anything in class, cause I would not understand the teacher. Is this the best way to do things???
 

CORRECTION "Anonymous" sorry about my spelling. I was planning on straightening it out after I was done and then forgot
 

Anon 7:16: The "best" way to do things depends on your learning style, but you learn better when you take a chance on something that's a little bit scary. I bet you'd do better in that class than you think - but there's only one way to find out. :-)
 

I am led to believe that Puerto Ricans speak slang and that they would understand formal spanish, but someone speaking formal spanish would have problems understanding them. Does anyone know?? Also, Don Francisco speaks with a different accent on his show. Is that a dialect from Spain? Is that formal? Is it the best way to speak? Ret

Ret
 

My Spanish prof burst out laughing when someone mentioned that in "their" country they spoke "pure" Spanish. He said that every country said that :)). The accent in South America is older that Spain. That is why for example, "ci", "ce" has a different pronounciation to the "th" sound in Spain.
 

Eve: If English is your second language and your learning Spanish, what is your first language? I too find Destilando a little easier to understand than La Fea Mas Bella.

Julie. I think you are right. When I am under pressure, I work my best. I would be mortified in a class where there is no English being spoken ROTF. That would probably be the best thing for me. The worse that can happen is I fail the class and lose $380.00. On the other hand, I might do well, or at least, after spending three months in that class, I will have learned to communicate better than I did at the outset of the class.

Ret
 

Don Francisco is from Chile, I believe.

There is no "best" accent, that I know of. Accents vary widely, so if it's very important to you, I'd say pick a region and mostly listen to people from that region.

It's very funny that you mentioned slang - slang varies VERY widely. On Telefutura there's a game show called Que Dice La Gente, which my mother taped for me a few times. It's done in LA, I think, and it's a Latino version of Family Feud. Families on this show often have trouble, not because they aren't clever enough, but because "Latino culture" in the US is made out of lots of other cultures - Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, etc etc etc. Since success on that show is based on familiarity with a COMMON culture, there's lots of stuff that can fall through the cracks.

And sometimes words on that show will cause unintentional hilarity - one time someone gave an answer which meant something really mundane in Cuba, but apparently meant "hickey" in Mexico.

So, again, you need to pick a region that interests you, and learn the slang from that region. And keep in mind that almost every word of slang you learn is probably going to mean something very different anywhere else. :)
 

To Lynn - Don Francisco seems to talk with his tongue on the roof of his mouth and he sounds like his mouth is full. My computer programs do not acknowledge Th. In one of my programs for example. The woman is playing a receptionist and she telling the person that "Mr. Smi" is not in. The word written on the screen is "Smith". My tutor from Bogota told me that Spain does not use th. I thought I had a hearing problem at first, becuase each time the woman said Mr. Smith, I could not hear the th ROTF.
 

Julie. Your right about the slang. Here in the states we who speak english have dialects. I am from Philadephia and I used to talk fast and we leave out ending sounds (ie. If I said to my husband, "did you eat", you would probably hear "yes. "Jew" (did you). I can't think of the others, but my husband and I go through a lot of them and laugh. New Yorkers have an R sound to the end of many of their words. I guess someone learning english, might have problems, just as I am having problems with the accents of different spanish people. I listen to a lot of spanish songs and I have their translations in spanish of course. so many of their phrases make no sense to me. My tutor said that they have certain phrases that have special meaning to the songs. Some words are fill-ins for timing and others are their own slang words or pet terms for what they are singing about.
 

Susanlynn – Thanks for your insight! The idea of dreaming in Spanish as an indication of thinking in Spanish is very interesting, I guess that can be something to strive for! The closest I’ve come is waking up with the Spanish words of a song running through my head. I’m hoping actually taking a class where I interact with others will make a difference for me, stop me from making stupid mistakes like referring to myself as a Gringo instead of a Gringa! I’m missing that important part of learning the language – being forced to speak/write it!
 

Just as English sounds different in the U.S., Great Britain, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia, Spanish speakers sound different depending on the country they are from. I've taught students from Spain, Maexico, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Colombia, Ecuador, Panama, Argentina, Chile, Peru, etc. Most agree that Puerto Ricans speak a very different form of Spanish than the other Spanish speaking countries. I once had a girl from Spain who made fun of 2 students from Mexico. She said, ''I'm speaking Spanish..I don't know what they're speaking !'' I can tell you that all of my Spanish speaking students have trouble with certain sounds--th, sh/ch [shop/chop], the vowels [our vowels have short and long sounds whereas their vowels each have only one sound--that's why Spanish is easier to spell than English]. They get very mixed up pronouncing vowels because their ''e'' sounds like our long ''a'' their ''i'' sounds like our long ''e''. They also have trouble being understood because they cut off final sounds that are very strong in English. [For example, they say ''san'' instead of ''and'' and they cut off the final s sound on words [''book'' instead of ''books'' or ''wa'' instead of ''was.'' In English, ''s'' has 2 sounds--''s'' and ''z'' but in Spanish z sounds like ''s'' and s sounds like ''s''. I always use my name to illustrate this ...in Susan the first ''s'' sounds like ''s'' but the second ''s'' sounds like a ''z''.[So, you prononce my name ''SuZan.'' In plurals ending in ''s''...some sound like ''s'' = ''cats'' and some sound like ''z'' = ''dogs.'' They also have trouble with the ''es'' ending which sounds like ''iz'' [changes]. My friend teaches Spanish in a high school, and she goes to Mexico almost every summer for vacation. She says that a lot of English has crept into Mexican Spanish.
 

My SIL has told me that her 3 1/2 year old grand daughter keeps on noting the difference in their speech :)). The child tells her gran - that she says "buTTer" whereas she says "buDDer" :)) - i.e. SA/British English vs American - i.e. Maryland.
 

Fascinating discussion here, folks!
 

Americans make middle ''t''s sound like ''d''s : ''wader'' [water] pardy [party] thirdy [thirty] etc.
 

Actually, if you look at the International Phonetic Alphabet, those intervocalic "d"s are called " flaps"--the "t" in "city" is one of them, and they're not "d"s, and I QUIT trying to get Spanish-speakers over age 12 to do them. Getting an English speaker to approximate good Spanish is more fun!
 

P.S. But I am sure you are doing great work, Susanlynn. Sigue adelante.
 

anonymous: DIEGO from amar sin limites is VALENTINO LANUS. He has been around for quite a while (ex-novio of jacqueline bracamontes). he has been in several novelas--always as protoganist or a very big part.....Go check them out online. Very sexy, but nowhere near as GUAPO as my beloved ROD.
 

Thanks to everyone who shared your experience. I love hearing about how others have learned or are learning Spanish. It's encouraging to compare notes and see how similiar our experiences are. I started 2 years ago when I moved to South Florida. Like Jardinera, it's a passion that I have incorporated into my lifestyle. I have taken several community college level courses and most of the libraries in my county have free conversational courses for intermediate level. I have books and tapes and of course the internet. Best of all, I have been working with a lady from Columbia for the past year. We were both volunteers at the library when she asked me to help her study for her citizenship test. From there, we started getting together twice a week for Spanish and English. She had me practice and improve my pronunciation and accent by reading aloud. (A habit that I still do for 15 minutes everyday. It took me almost a year of daily practice to learn how to trill my rr's. But was well worth the effort. I listen to Spanish tapes on my iPod while walking my dog. I have the Rosetta Stone tapes and several others. I understand 3/4 of what I hear in a controlled environment like 1:1 or in class. I'm poor at spontaneous conversation but slowly progressing. The novela is very helpful but I prefer captions. I keep a pad and pencil handy to take notes. By the way, I've learned how to pull the wool over my teachers eyes. To engage me in conversation, she asks me to
tell her about the Novela (In Spanish of course). Since she's unaware of this blog even though I have to try to explain in Spanish, it's easy because I'm really using info from the recap. I feel a wee bit guilty when she tells me that judging by my progress, she now recommends watching novelas to anyone trying to learn Spanish:)
 

I wish that I knew the international phonetics scheme. I mentioned "th" earlier. I meant that "ci", "ce" is pronounced with a kind of lisping sound in Spain. I represented this as "th". So in my scheme of phonetics, "cinco" in Spain is "thinco". My prof said that in Spain they started to change the ci and ce to "th" in the 17th century. Many of the settlers in South America came in the 1500's. Learning how languages have changed is a whole different study! I learnt that the "h" was hard in Latin whereas it has been dropped in modern Romance languages.
 

I had four years of Spanish in high school. I didn't think about it much for the next 21 years after graduating, except for some sporadic Univision and Telemundo when I lived in FL (including bits of Yo Soy Betty La Fea).

Then, last summer, I was excited to hear about the new (at the time) ABC series "Ugly Betty," and coicidentally, that same night I noticed La Fea Mas Bella in the tv guide. My suspicion that it was yet another version of Betty La Fea was quickly confirmed, and I determined to follow it no matter how hard it was.

But it was too hard, so I went online looking for recaps - that's how I found Caray. The recaps had been discontinued, but I was able to get up to date based on what had already been done. Then I volunteered to continue the recaps out of sheer selfishness, hoping that someone else would soon come along, take pity on my sad efforts, and take over. Amanda did show up not long afterwards, but by that time, I wasn't willing to quit, so we split them. And the rest is history.

At first, I recognized just enough vocabulary to barely scrape by. I was surprised at how much I knew, but also overwhelmed by how much I didn't know. I was able to pick up a lot based on context, and I learned all the important novela words quickly (jealousy, lover, boyfriend, it can't be, etc). But mostly, I struggled to figure out what they were saying (didn't have captions on my old TV) and spent hours looking up the wrong words.

Gradually it got easier, especially when I got a TV with captions, and now I don't use the dictionary nearly as much. It still takes me forever to do a recap, but that's partly because I have wireless now, which means I'm online the whole time, and I'm very easily distracted. :)

So that's the story of how I learned, forgot, and relearned Spanish. Like I said before, my relearned Spanish is mostly one-way - I was very good at both reading and writing back when I was in school, but without a teacher and daily quizzes hanging over my head, I've had little motivation to relearn the writing part.

Hope that answers your question: in my case, I relearned the language through brute force. :)
 

Diane - don't feel guilty. I had a friend in college who came to the US from Brazil as a young teen. She learned English by watching soap operas and Three's Company. It's not at all unusual. It may not be quite the education you get in a class, but on the other hand, you learn all sorts of useful things that would NOT be covered in a class. :-)
 

Yep, Julie! That's the beauty of CC and television, particularly telenovelas. I had the basics from my cont. ed. night classes, but the cultural and the vernacular came on like gangbusters once I discovered telenovelas and my teacher suggested having the C/C turned on.

I got good enough to write Spanish recaps for Uni foros for 2 or 3 telenovelas, then went back to work and no longer had time to keep it up, so my Spanish grammar has definitely suffered since. Creative writing and spontaneous speaking uses a whole different set of skills and brain function, just like you mentioned, Julie!
 

The telenovela was discovered by second language educators a while back. Bill VanPatten of the University of Illinois actually created a very well-produced one, called "Destinos". The plot and acting are worthy of Univision. The plus is that it starts out with simple structures and progresses with the plot into full-blown native complexity. Along the way, as the protagonista, Raquel, travels from Mexico to Spain to Argentina, back to the US to unravel the mystery of the plot, you are exposed to the major phonological variations in the language. If you can find this series in a library, or on ebay, I highly recommend it. I used it with my students about a decade ago and they loved it.
 

I bought the French in Action which is the equivalent of Destinos - also on PBS and funded by the Annenberg Foundation. It was good and now I can sort-of understand TV5. This was a real mission for me - don't know why I chose French! My teacher spoke French from the first class - excellent teacher but really put students under pressure. I'd be better if I stuck to one language instead of trying to learn French, Spanish and Italian.
 

I think that telenovela as a tool for learning foreign language is a very good stimuli because it's not only keeps you going, wanting to learn more and faster, but also path to new culture.
My first language is Russian, I've been living in US for 15 years and for sure English is my second language. But I have really strong feeling for Spanish and, because of LFMB, watching telenovelas became part of my daily routine - I didn't miss a single episode of LFMB since I started to watch it in September ( thanks to DVR). I became a fea-holic. Now I'm watching Destilando.
I also have to mention that because of studying Spanish I became interested in Mexican culture, I also watch Aguilar's movies, listen to the songs etc.
I know from my own experience that language is a path to broader horizons.
So, I salute to all you, guys, who is studying Spanish and getting in love with new culture.
Eve
 

Lynne--thanks for the French telenovela reference--I was looking for the equivalent of "Destinos" in French! By the way, if your French teacher spoke only in French, she may have been under orders to do so--I know I was with my university students in Spanish.
Eve--was English a harder language for you to learn with your Russian language background than Spanish is? I'm betting it was. You are to be commended for your versatility.
 

Destilando, I can't compare studying English to Spanish because I started English in school and it was part of regular program that later continued in college. So I actually had some kind of background in English before I started intensive course and when I came here I've got the best practice working as a bakery clerk - talking to people gives you big "go ahead" in the language apprehension. And I was soo much younger then! ( I'm 47 now). Also it was more of academic studying versus self-studying now.
But now I have so many good resources to study Spanish, including telenovelas, so I'm having much more fun now. Sometimes I think that I have to find part time job in Spanish-speaking environment to practice but it's not really possible now ( I'm a computer programmer and it's hard to go back being sales clerk).
Eve
 

Desti: I was going to suggest "Destinos" also. They have it once a week on the ed channel here, but I found it on line because Liliana Abud, who has written lots of Univision telenovela scripts, particularly in conjunction with Caridad Bravo Adams novelas, plays Raquel. It may be a bit hoaky for some, but I've found it very satisfying as an instructional tool. Recently I found the major online bookstore chains carry the workbook for the 50 episode course. You'll see some very familiar faces in the series also, like the guy playing Artemio Trejo.) I go back to it every so often and am up to #34 or 35 now, but was forced to do it without either the C/C or the workbook. It's been a good guide, therefore, to see how much I've improved overall.

Here is the link to the series for those interested:

http://www.learner.org/resources/series75.html
 

Muchas Gracias por the website link, jardinera654. I went to the site and gave it a try. I looked at the printed supplements, but $450 seems a little much so I think I’ll try to go with the free programs. I have been following the recaps and the comments for Destilando and I am thrilled to know that even though not everyone is comfortably fluent in Spanish, we all are trying to learn and improve. The little insights into idiomatic structures are invaluable. I especially like it that when someone doesn’t get something, or asks for clarification, it is usually forthcoming so that we all help each other. JudyG
 

Hey, Judy G! $450 is a lot for sure. That's why I didn't bother either with the books. When I checked afterward, I found that with online bookstores like Amazon, you can mix and match them and use only what you feel like, i.e., only the 2 paperback workbooks. They do offer new/slightly used books and workbooks that can be bought for a lot less, closer to between $50-$100.
 

Thanks for the link for the Destinos material, Jardinera. I caught the program on local cable a few times within the last six months or so, but now I can't remember where and I can't find it in any local guides. Do you think it's worth the $462.95 for the DVDs and workbooks? I loved Rosetta Stone but was disappointed when I completed Levels I and II (at around $250) and my grasp of things was so limited.
 

Jardinera - sorry I was looking at the prices wrong. I guess for DVDs for both parts plus workbooks would come out to around $550. Is it a good value?
 

I personally would never spend that kind of money unless I was getting a number of college credits towards a degree. On my computer I couldn't get the C/C like you can when the t.v. station shows the series. I don't know how comfortable you are with concentrating on the audio, but you can rewind numerous times.

I would try Amazon or Barnes and Noble online to get discounted workbooks for both halves only. On the website at the lower half of the page under "Liliana/Raquel's" photo is the list of each episode. To the right of each is a brown box. Double click and you can watch the episode for free.
 

Thanks for your thoughts Jardinera. I couldn't get the videos on the site to play when I tried earlier, but I'll keep trying. When I'm really focused on something I'm often willing to spend more money than maybe I should if I think it might help me get where I want to go. Fortunately my obsessions are few and far between!
 

thoughly enjyed all the talk about learning Spanish. I have learned enough to follow the story line with cc captioning but cannot understand nor speak it without captions. What should be my next step of learing? The Rosetta Stone? Go back to classes? Definitely need to find a spanish friend. I went to Mexico about 10 years ago and loved it. We were in Mexico City but took bus trips to all the magnificent churches with a healing Priest and we said rosaries on the bus. The best trip of my life. I met my mother there The Virgen of Guadalupe. The Blessed Mother It was a wonderful spiritul experience. I'm a 75 year old Italian American mother and grandmother and I have a real passion for learing Spanish. If any of you can give any hints on what to do next I'd appreciate it. I started with LFMB then Dame Choclate - Destilando Amor Accoralado! and Amar san Limites. I also bought the DVD of Mi destino eres tu -and Amar Real and Aborgado.
So I try to immerse myself and read the captions and learn. Also I love the recaps and all the conversations on this site. It adds so much to the enjoyment of novela and there are so many new insights different opinions which makes it more interesting. Well enought from me. Love you all
and thanks for making my life more interesting.
AnnB
 

AnnB: Great to have you join us! We'd appreciate your commentaries any time the spirit moves you.

I can only reiterate what I felt comfortable doing and what we've all discussed doing here, like listening to Spanish radio stations and songs or the variety of talk shows, or news shows and telenovelas if you don't have Spanish-speaking friends or family. Buy some simple Spanish language story books and also Google Spanish newspapers and magazines to read online. Doing something daily increases your abilities little by little. : ? ))

I liked a classroom situation initially because it was structured and there was somebody to ask questions of and an opportunity to converse in the language and to think or write in simple sentences. Later I got bored with that and looked through grammar workbooks at the bookstore and bought those on my own. I learned a lot of extra vocabulary that way which helped me read and understand the C/C.