Monday, August 15, 2011

La Fuerza del Destino #9 Mon 08/15/11 Ivan Gets an Indecent Proposal AND an Offer He Can’t Refuse

Alternate Title: Max is Found, and MarIvancito is Lost

Camilo the Coward leaves his house and runs into Antolin, who has left his bachelor pad to come over and visit their mom Celia. Cami angrily mentions the letter from Ivan and how he’s in a messed up situation (esta en la fregada). Antolin feels NO guilt. The two have their same argument about whose fault it is that Ivan got in this mess and was convinced to leave. Antolin sticks to his guns and the argument turns into a shoving/wrestling match. The screams of witnesses on the street bring Celia running. She breaks up the fight between her two sons with her broom and calls them animals. The shoving match turns into a screaming match over their mother’s head. When she asks what caused it, Antolin lies (what’s new?) and Camilo angrily stalks off. Celia gives Antolin a swat and tells him she knows he must have started it. Antolin complains about always being made to be the bad guy (el malo del cuento), when all he came to do was see her. “Well, you’ve seen me. Now get out of here!” (Ooh, harsh Celia.) He better be grateful that she’s not going to tell his father. She shoos him off with her broom, and then does the same to the nosey neighbor ladies who have been attentively watching the whole scene. (Go Celia!)

In L.A. (my home town!), Ivan works in the restaurant kitchen. His hard work and English skills (and less indio features/buena pinta) earn him a promotion to waiter by the boss. The other kitchen workers look on in jealous anger.

Lucrezia speaks with Esther and tells her about the divorce that SHE (snort, giggle) demanded from Gerry. Timid Esther can’t believe Lu did such a bold thing. She could never do it. What about the children? They need their father. She’s been taught that a woman should respect her husband because he rules the home. Lucrezia isn’t interested in being a martyr.

In L.A., Ivan proudly tells Benito that he has been promoted to a mesero. He can afford to rent his own room somewhere now. Benito will help him look for a place. Unfortunately, Benito hasn’t had much luck finding a job. Ivan wonders if a letter has come from Camilo the Coward. Nope. Ivan looks forlorn. Benito says that people back home get preoccupied with their own problems and forget about you. He speaks of missing his family and kids. Ivan says that Cami is like his brother.

Lucrezia and Esther continue their chat. Lu wants to get out of town for a while until the gossip about her divorce dies down. Esther understands.

Ivan approaches two customers looking over the menu. He asks them, in pretty decent English, if they’d like an appetizer. One of the men looks Ivan over and declares that Ivan is Latino, right? Ivan answers yes, in Spanish. The older man asks Ivan if he has his papers (legal resident docs like a visa or green card). Ivan gets an ‘oh sh*t’ look on his face. The guy chuckles and says they aren’t from Immigration (La Migra). But it’s surprising that a young man like him (light skinned, English speaking?) is working as a waiter. Ivan admits that this current job isn’t the best, but he’ll eventually get ahead (alcanzar). The older guy hands him his business card, with the promise of a better life, and orders up a tequila.

At the little house by the sea in Guaymas, Lucrezia arrives to inform the girls that she’s staying with them till Maripaz gives birth (dar luz), and that the divorce from their father is a done deal. Lucia thought they’d find a way to fix their problems. Lucrezia doesn’t think it’s a huge loss, as Gerry never brought in any money, nor was good for anything else. She tells the girls about leaving town while the gossip about the divorce is hot. Maripaz (always concerned about Number 1) wants to know what the town is saying about HER. Nada. They assume she’s off to school. And what if she returns looking fat? “We’ll say that you gained weight and now you’re on a diet.” Lucia asks about Ivan, but Lucrezia tells her to shut it and not mention him again. The girls go off to look at the clothes mom brought them. Carlota informs Lucrezia that Gerry’s coming to see the girls this weekend. One big happy family, all together again!

In the smoggy valley of L.A. (ah, home!), Ivan checks out his new rental with Benito. Benito gives him fatherly advice about being good, and not bringing too many girls (chamacas) home. He’ll take Ivan to a place where he can get a few pieces of furniture cheap. Ivan thanks him for all he’s done for him, and the two lament the fact that Benito still hasn’t found work. Ivan tells him about the two Gringos who were nice to him, gave him a card, and spoke to him about good paying work. He shows the card to Benito who assumes these guys are rich (ricochona) by the address on the card. He tells Ivan to go for it. Ivan asks about getting a letter from Camilo (why isn’t anyone else in the family writing?), and is disappointed again. Benito good naturedly tells Ivan that’s the way it goes. He advises that if Ivan starts working for those wealthy guys, he’ll have to buy some better clothes.

Ivan puts on his Sunday best and heads to the high rise office address from the business card. He tells the blond (but obviously Latina from her accent) receptionist in English that he is here to see the person on the card. She directs him to the 9th floor. The receptionist on the 9th floor mostly speaks Spanish as she directs him to the waiting area. He admires a leggy blond while there.

In Guaymas, Lucrezia is not happy that the girls have gone into town on their own. Carlota tries to get her to chill out. (Good luck with that.) Lucrezia wants to make sure that Maripaz isn’t out and about when she goes into labor. In fact, she thinks it would be better if she gave birth at home instead of in the hospital where pesky records could later give away the fact that she had a child. Carlota crosses her arms and gives her best Garry Coleman impersonation, “What chu talkin’ ‘bout Lucrazya?!” What if there are complications? Heck no! Maripaz is going to give birth in a hospital! Anyways, the gynecologist already knows Maripaz is a single mother (madre soltera), and hospitals don’t give a darn if you’re married, widowed or single.

In the high rise office, Ivan is shown into a board room where Mark (the old dude from the restaurant) is looking over a poster of a sexy young woman. Similar posters are strewn over the board table. Ivan is seated at the opposite end from Mark. He came to see him about making better money than he’s making in the restaurant. The guy tells him to name his price. Does he want to earn $3,000 or $5,000 each month (!)? Ivan looks as bewildered as I am. Sure, but what kind of work is he talking about? Ivan refuses to do anything that has to do with drugs. Mark chuckles. No, it’s nothing like that. His business makes VIDEOS. (Do you see where this is going? Because I sure do.) Mark points out that Ivan’s a good looking guy, and he assumes well hung (bien totado). (Yes, he said it people.) Ivan starts to get the drift, and becomes very uncomfortable (as do I). Mark thinks Ivan still doesn’t get it, so he comes straight out and tells him they make adult videos. He tells Ivan to stand up so he can look him over. (Wow, we usually only see this scenario with women. But standing there in his freshly pressed, tucked in, button down, white shirt, and Clark Kent glasses, Ivan looks every bit as vulnerable as those women.) “You have a good body. You’re handsome. Take off your pants so that I can see what you have under there (que traes adentro).” (!!!)

Ivan hesitates for a moment, as if he might do what was asked. He then regains his confidence and tells Mark he made a mistake with him. He doesn’t do this kind of thing. He thanks him, refuses, and begins to walk out of the room. Friendly Mark turns fiendish, and warns Ivan that he knows where he works and can turn him in to La Migra if he wants. Cara impactada de Ivan.

Gerry visits the house in Guaymas and finds that the girls have left for a walk. The doctor recommended walks to Maripaz so that she doesn’t gain as much weight, and Lucia always goes with her, because that’s the kind of caring, good sister she is. Carlota laments Maripaz’s bad character and declares that she’s worse than her mother.

At the restaurant, Ivan tells the boss about Mark’s threat and gets fired for his honesty. The restaurant owner can’t take the risk of Immigration breathing down his neck. He’ll have to fire some of the other illegals too. Ivan begs. He just rented a place. He can’t believe others will get fired because of him. Later, he and Benito get jobs working as pickers in a produce field.

Carlota tells Gerry about Lucrezia’s crazy plan for a home birth (partera). They are both in agreement about the birth happening in a hospital (which likely means that Lucrezia will get her way). Gerry thinks that Lucrezia would prefer that the baby die. Carlota says perhaps, but her worried face looks like she agrees. Gerry will be back staying in a hotel next week. He wants Carlota to let him know when Mari heads to the hospital in labor. The girls return. Lucia is happy and cheerful when she sees her dad. Maripaz is, well…Maripaz. Enough said.

Ivan is in the fields, working hard picking. At home in the evening, he writes a letter to Camilo begging for a response. In Sonora, the mailman delivers the letter from Ivan to Camilo the Coward, who rips it up without reading it.

In the hospital in Guaymas (I guess Lucrezia did not get her way after all), the family awaits news of Maripaz and the baby. Gerry tries to make nice with Lucrezia. Lucrezia is, well…Lucrezia. Enough said. Everyone (minus Lucrezia) is happy to learn from the doctor that all is well, and Maripaz gave birth to a healthy baby boy (varon).

Ivan is hitchhiking along a road with his backpack. A car stops and we see a road sign which shows Laguna Beach is not far away.

Baby MarIvancito cries as the happy members of the family look on at him. They are all sad that they will have to say goodbye to him, especially Lucia.

Ivan arrives at his destination and hops out of the car. Not too far away we see an older gentleman calling for his dog Max. He is soon assaulted by two young hoodlums who knock him to the ground. Ivan sees this and goes running, yelling at the guys in English to leave the man alone. One guy pulls a gun on Ivan and tells him in Spanish to butt out (no te metas). I’m not sure when Ivan learned Kung Fu, but he jumps up and round house kicks the gun out of the hoodlum’s hand. He then confronts him hand to hand and beats the guy down. Both hoodlums run off as Ivan checks on the older gentleman and asks if he wants him to call 911 or a doctor. He just wants Ivan to help him back to his house (mansion!). He doesn’t want to make a big deal about what just happened, as those guys were probably just motivated by hunger/poverty. Ivan doesn’t think this is a valid excuse.

Once they are inside the house, the maid comes running wondering what happened to Don Anthony (Tony). He explains how he went looking for Max who has gotten loose. She thinks it was Felipe’s fault, who didn’t lock the gate when he left. She scolds Tony for going out by himself. We learn her name is Maria and she heads out of the room to call his doctor. Tony then tells Ivan he’s more worried for Max, who isn’t used to being out off his leash. Ivan finally gets that Max is a dog and offers to go find him. Tony tells Ivan that Max most likely headed to the nearby park.

Lucrezia is in a sleeping Maripaz’s hospital room. Gerry enters. He offers to get Lucrezia something from the cafeteria, where Carlota and Lucia are. She refuses. He asks if she’s seen the beautiful (hermoso) baby yet. Nope! Gerry gets sentimental, but Lucrezia puts a stop to that. The baby’s being put up for adoption, and that’s that! Gerry wants to know if they have the needed supplies at the house to care for the baby. Lucrezia’s not so worried since the baby will only be with them a few days. Gerry wants to know what they are going to tell the foundling home (casa cuna) when they drop the baby off. That the servant abandoned her baby and took off. Gerry doesn’t look pleased with this answer.

Ivan searches for Max, calling to him in English. A friendly German Sheppard (pastor alemán) emerges from the bushes and greets Ivan. He puts him on a leash and returns to the house. Maria scolds Max and the absent Felipe. The doctor comes down the stairs and tells Ivan Tony is well, but needs to go do some follow-up tests tomorrow. He charges Ivan with making sure he goes in to do the tests. In the living room, Max is being scolded by his owner as Ivan enters. Tony thanks Ivan for saving him, but above all, he thanks him for finding Max. This whole conversation is happening in Spanish, and Tony is also speaking to Max in Spanish. When Ivan asks about it, he learns Tony’s mother was Mexican. More specifically, she was from Alamos, Sonora. Ivan is shocked by how small the world is. He explains that’s where he grew up. Tony notices that Ivan speaks Spanish and English well, and wonders how he got here. Ivan explains about being an engineering student in Sonora, but had to leave home because some bad stuff went down. He explains about his servant mother who died, and his scholarship to the university. “Did you kill someone?” “No.” Good enough for Tony. He wants to compensate Ivan for what he did for him. He wants to help fulfill Ivan’s mother’s dream (for him to become an engineer). He tells Ivan to think about it and get back to him tomorrow. Ivan will come by after he gets off work at the orange grove. Tony thanks Ivan again for finding Max, then leans back in his recliner and promptly falls asleep. Ivan looks at him with gratitude, and returns to his apartment to dream about the possibilities.

In the hospital the next morning, Gerry returns with flowers and is greeted happily by Lucia. Seems that Maripaz is being her usual bad-humored self, and doesn’t want to see or breastfeed the baby (dar pecho). Carlota can’t convince her to do it for the baby’s well being. Maripaz is sure formula will do just fine. Gerry greets her with a kiss and the flowers. Maripaz reacts the way you would think. She shrieks that she does NOT want to see the baby. Gerry worries about where they will put the baby in the small two-bedroom house. Carlota decides that the baby should stay with her and Lucia in the girls’ room. Lucrezia will stay in a room with Maripaz. Gerry and Lucia excitedly go to see the baby. Maripaz doesn’t understand all the fuss about the baby, since he won’t be with them long. Carlota tells her that before, she knew Maripaz was spoiled and capricious, but now she knows she’s just bad to the bone (bien MALA)!

Ivan returns to Tony’s home and is greeted by the friendly maid Maria. She confirms that Tony did go to the doctor for the tests. Tony’s obviously not happy about it. He asks for Ivan’s answer. Does he accept his offer? Ivan explains his hesitation due to an indecent proposal he’s already received, and having learned that people always want something in return. “Like what?” Ivan doesn’t know. He’s met some good folk, but also some pretty bad ones. Now he’s uncertain. Tony is still confused about what kind of indecent proposal Ivan could be talking about. Ivan is too embarrassed to say. Tony explains how his parents had a Latin American goods import/export business. His father passed away many years ago, and not long after, his mother passed away. He was married with one child, but unfortunately, his wife and son died in an accident. He’s now as alone as a dog, with Max as his only companion. But he likes to converse with people. Now Ivan has come into his life-- saving his life and finding Max. He can tell Ivan has a good heart. Ivan explains his own love for dogs and how his dog was much like Max- his sole companion. He had to leave him when he left home. He explains the real reasons why he left (Maripaz, the pregnancy, etc.).


Lucia and Gerry admire little MarIvan. Gerry is certain God will make sure the little guy ends up in a good home.

Ivan continues his tale of woe and the false accusation of killing one of his attackers, even though his BFF was the culprit. He then explains about his mother’s life and death (as he understands it). Tony is convinced. He’s going to help get papers for Ivan so that he can go to school legally and such. But if Ivan has lied to him about any of this, he’s out! Ivan swears it’s all true, he won’t fail him. He calls Tony his guardian angel and thanks him.

The Bickertons bring the baby back to the beach house. As her family argues and fights all the way into the house, Lucia seems to have a moment of realization that this really would NOT be a healthy environment for a baby. Inside the house, ShrewCrazya refuses to let the baby stay in any room but the servant’s room! (Why in the hell is Carlota listening to her?!) Gerry says farewell to Lucia. Later that evening in the servant’s room, the maid offers to stay the night to take care of the baby. She wonders why Maripaz isn’t caring for him. Carlota refuses to let her stay. Lucia then offers to stay with the baby, but Carlota sends her to her own room for the night. Lucia kissed her grandma and nephew goodnight. Once alone, Carlota cries. (Is she ashamed of her role in this mess? Sad her first great-grandchild will be given away? Both?) Little MarIvan looks on.

Later in the middle of the night, the little one begins to cry in earnest, and Carlota heads off to the kitchen to get him a bottle. When she returns with the bottle, MarIvancito is GONE!!!!

Avances: Ivan has become a success in L.A. as the years pass. Tony wants him to go back to Mexico to confront his demons from the past. In the past, the Curiel-Lomeli women react to the shocking news that the baby has gone missing. I think we will get our first episode with an all grown up Lucia (Sandra E.).

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Comments:
I haven't seen this capitulo yet, it sounds like quite a bit went on in the span of one episode. I can't wait to watch it tomorrow and come back to see the comments. I'm thinking maybe Gerry takes the baby....hmmm.
 

You might be on to something Ruby. Gerry and Lucrezia are the two biggest suspects. He because he so did not want to part with his grandchild and was asking about sleeping arrangements. Lucrazya because she was also so preoccupied with sleeping arrangements and wants there to be no paper trail from that baby back to them. It may be some third, as yet unknown, person too.

That baby was SO adorable. I'm sad we will likely not see him again.

I can’t believe they didn’t bleep “well hung” out, considering how much other stuff they have been bleeping.
 

Woo hoo! You mentioned the roundhouse kick! *That* is what made me LOL on Friday! Of course, it now pales in comparison to the "indecent proposal" and indeed why did "well hung" not get bleeped?

Great recap and *perfect* picture of the baby and those pestañas (eylashes)!
 

Now why couldn't Ivan have done that karate kid move when LuCrayCray's thugs were beating him down?

I'm wondering if Lucia is really the daughter of LuCrayCray and Gerry because CrayCray, Maripaz & Gerry are all fair, but Lucia is dark. Maybe Luci inherited that from her real bio-granddad or Carlota?

Cam, if Ivan is writing you letters, he's obviously ok. Stop being a bonehead and write him back.

I guess Ivan is the Dog Whisperer, huh?
 

Also, Carlota is not doing right by Alicia/Ivan because to totally do so, would be putting herself and her child (CrayCray) behind bars for fraud.

Where did Ivan learn to speak English?
 

Vivi great recap for this episode thank you.

I LOL when the guy asked Ivan to drop his pants and show him his goods. Yes i was surprise also that they allowed him to say well hung with all of the deleting that have been doing so far.

So now Carlotta believes Maripaz is even worst than her mother? Well she could have put a stop to this a long time ago if she just spoke up about what her shrewish daughter did in selling off part of the hacienda to pay for loans to keep the hacienda going.

Now that Gerry and she are divorce who is she going to blame now for the continued mismanagement of the business?

I hope that it was Gerry who took the baby if it's Lucreature she won't tell them where she sent the child to.
 

Thanks, Vivi. Good episode, great recap.

They certainly do depict immigration to the US as a mixed bag, with adventure galore. The truth for so many millions of people is very different, of course, with no karate moves or wealthy patrons to be saved. Novelaland!

I felt so badly for Lucia and Gerardo last night. The young actress has done well with the role.
 

Thank you for this wonderful recap! It was very thorough and wonderful to read. I have been behind in my telenovelas but have been devoting more time lately into catching up. I'm really enjoying this TN and am intrigued by its references to being in the USA.

Is everyone else assuming that this show is still being shot in Mexico, with just a few traffic and external shots being done in L.A.? The first thing that tipped me off (and maybe it was just me) was when Ivan was limping to find the house of his friend in L.A., the stop sign didn't look right. It was red and the right shape and it said "Stop" but it didn't look like a stop sign seen in the USA, or at least not in S. California. (I'm a native of S. Ca too.) After all, the terrain in Mexico shouldn't be that different from L.A., and many of the houses/neighborhoods in L.A. are very southwestern in appearance, so it's not like it's a stretch. Probably stating the obvious here, right?

I'm enjoying that they're actually having the characters SPEAK ENGLISH in this show. In Eva Luna, they only had characters speak English rarely and it seemed like I had to adjust my beanie a lot, because there were situations where, if they were really living in L.A., they would have HAD to speak English. (In the EvaLuna-verse, almost everyone, no matter how they looked or in what neighborhood they were in, spoke Spanish and so it was okay for our characters to approach strangers and speak in Spanish immediately, with the expectation of being understood. That definitely does not reflect reality!)

Anyway, I'm really enjoying this story and it's nice to see David Zapada in a leading role! I couldn't believe the scene with the creepy old pornographer. I was screaming at the TV screen, "NO NO don't believe him!" LOL
 

Hey Elvira! Good to see you back here. Yes, they are totally filming this in Mexico. I noticed that too.

One of the things that gave it away, among many other things, was the high rise apt building on the same block as Tony's mansion. That's very Latin American. But in L.A., a mansion like Tony's would not be found anywhere near high rises, no matter how fancy they were.

I still love their exterior L.A. skyline shots. Actaully, they are doing a better job making Mexico look like L.A., than Eva Luna did making Miami look like L.A. :)
 

Anon207- I believe Ivan studied English in school. Not unsual for someone on a high level academic track in Mexico. See our lovely Jarocha as an example.
 

I don't know why, but when DZ walked into the porno production office and said in heavily accented English to the receptionist "Jays, Ay wan to see theese mahng" It just broke my heart. For some reason it really hit me how vulnerable he was. Studying a language and functioning in a language can be two very different things.
 

So true Sara. And I also felt how naive and vulnerable Ivan was in that whole scene. I'm sure he becomes a much more confident and savvy man as the years pass.

Travelling Lady- This is for sure not the average illegal immigrant's story. The thing about tn characters is that they have both extraodinarily bad luck, and extraordinarily good luck. They are not the norm, which is why we watch. We would all love to have a wealthy, kind-hearted patron, right? :)

Ivan really lucked out. But he did put his life on the line for Tony, and found his beloved dog. Paying for his studies in exchange for both those wonderful things is justified.
 

I knew that old man was bad news. He creeped me out at first sight. Poor Ivan.

It was a huge relief to finally hear some English in the L.A. scenes. It has bothered me for years that so many novelas seem to come from a world where gringos and English don't appear to exist, even when the action is in the US. Eva Luna drove me nuts with that.

As for who took the baby, let's see where the greatest story potential lies:

Gerardo: Raises him as his own, treats him well. Kid is a decent human being

Lucrazia: Abandons him on the doorstep of an orphanage; he is adopted by a couple that bring him to the States where Ivan runs into him. But more likely she would abandon him elsewhere where he is found by people who eventually abuse him.
 

Vivi, thank you for an excellent recap. I enjoyed it from the great title to the end. And the pictures added a lot! Like Sara, I noticed the beautiful long eyelashes on that baby.

There were two "kung fu moments" for me last night. First, of course, Ivan with his kick boxing skills. But also determined Celia wielding her weapon of choice. I fear it is too late for the broom to have any effect on Antolin, but she sure scared the "metiches" away!

I thought the adult video scene was especially poignant. Usually it is a poor down-on-her-luck woman who is humiliated in such a situation. I thought David Z did a good job of showing not only the shame but also his dignity.

I agree that the young actress playing Lucia is doing a fine job. I will hate to see her go, but I am looking forward to seeing how Sandra E. handles her role.

Sondie
 

I still haven't watched this episode, but wanted to chime in on the English/Spanish. I grew up in S. TX, we spoke spanish, everyone did, I actually had to learn spanish to get along in school. Most places/ businesses or otherwise all speak spanish, go through any drive thru and they will ask you for your order in spanish. Even is school it was a mixed bag, they (teachers) spoke to us in spanish but reverted to english for the actual lessons and lots of spanglish too.
 

Is Anthony Irish or American? He told Ivan his mom was Mexican but his dad was Irish (I guess to explain the "McGuire" last name but honestly there are so many Americans with Irish last names I don't know if they needed to add that his dad was Irish).

I just want to know what happened to Steve Norton from MEPS. LOL

The only English I understood was from the gangbangers yelling at Ivan "Hey I'm talking to you".
 

Anon207- In this great land of ours, with an Irish dad, and a Mexican mom (like Martin Sheen), Anthony is just American. Irish-Mexican-American.

-Jamaican-American Vivi :)
 

Thank you Jamaican-American Vivi :) for this recap.

Suspects- The maid should be added on the baby snatching list, she kept saying how the baby was hermoso over and over. Could she have snuck in later that night?

I was excited for a minute when I saw all the pics on creepy porno guy's desk because I thought it was a modeling agency. I had this vision of Ivan as a male supermodel!

Kenyan-American Star:)
 

Anon207: The only English I understood was from the gangbangers yelling at Ivan "Hey I'm talking to you".

LOL!

Ruby: I have never visited S. TX, but I hear that there are far closer ties on both sides of the border than in SoCal. What a wonderful and interesting experience to basically live in two countries/cultures, and automatically learn two languages.
 

Thank you for the recap Vivi!

Poor Iván getting all the indecent proposals. At least people in this novela are acknowledging he is hot lol. Finally, his fairy godfather has arrived hehe.

Does Carlota really thinks Maripaz is worse than Lucrecia? Mmm. Sandra Echeverria is coming next, she also started her career in TV Azteca before jumping to Telemundo and then Televisa (just like Zepeda). An actress called Claudia Álvarez, who has just jumpled from TV Azteca to Televisa, was initially thought for the role of Maripaz. If Álvarez would have gotten it then this novela would have had the heroe, heroine and female antagonist all coming from their biggest competition.

Jarocha
 

Baby-napping suspects:
1) ShrewCrazya
2) Grandpa Gerry
3) Motherly Maid

Two of these three suspects would treat the baby well. I hope for his sake it wasn't Lucrezia who got her hands on him.
 

I actually hope that Lucrazia isn't the one. If it's the maid who runs off with the baby we will have yet a third generation of this line raised downstairs vs. upstairs. Gerry could right that wrong if he's the one who took him.

As to Lucia's being darker than the rest of her family, maybe she was switched at birth? Wouldn't that be ironic if Lucrazia's actual younger daughter ended up raised by a servant... and Lucia was the servant's daughter?
 

I'd almost expect something like that to come out about Maripaz the Humble, her being Lucrecia's favorite and all--and that Lucrecia pulled a Queen Snooki move and kidnapped or otherwise obtained a servant's daughter to, for instance, maintain her Kung Fu Grip on Gerardo. (Hell, I'd pay for that one.)

Thing #42 I never expected to see in a telenovela: a man being approached to do porn, let alone attempted intimidation into it. That was like Ivan wandered by accident onto the set of La rosa de Guadelupe or something.

As for lil' Ivancito...what are the odds on Ivan and Maripaz surviving the show with the little guy tying him together? Not necessarily killing him off, but otherwise rendering him irrelevant (oops, he's not really Ivan's kid!)?
 

Chiming in some more about English/Spanish in L.A. Yes, if you go to Olvera Street (well, I haven't been there for years) I'll bet that a Spanish-speaker who saw another person who looked like they spoke Spanish would probably speak in Spanish to them. But in most other places in L.A. and Southern California, it's not assumed. That's what drove me nuts about Eva Luna too.

In one scene I remember a character in her car approaching a policeman (stopped in traffic) and asking him (in Spanish) something, and the officer responding in Spanish. There were a lot of examples of this kind of thing. It wouldn't happen because there are like a jillion different languages spoken in L.A. (in my area, it was more often Farsi) and the poor policeman can't know each one. Strangers on the street wouldn't know either and so Spanish-speakers just wouldn't approach anyone and start rattling away in Spanish. (Only if they "looked" like they were a native speaker, maybe.)

Another scene of Eva Luna that had my beanie flying off was when Eva first meets our galán, Daniel, in what looked like an expensive business area of town. Daniel, played by Guy Ecker, is blonde and blue-eyed, yet Eva approaches him and speaks in Spanish! NEVER would it happen like that in L.A. Never!

Sorry, had to get that off my chest! LOL.
 

I understand why the gangbangers were yelling at Ivan in English, since much has been made of Ivan looking white.

I understand why the manager & workers at the restaurant were speaking Spanish to Ivan, since he was brought to them by another Spanish speaker.

I even understand why the Porn Guy started speaking Spanish to Ivan after hearing his heavily accented English.

But I can't understand why Anthony was initially speaking Spanish to Ivan, a dude who looks white, who came running after the thugs yelling at them in ENGLISH. Anthony started speaking English to Ivan and quickly went to Spanish. I was like "huh?"
 

In all the years I've been watching telenovelas I have yet to see an actual infanticide. The perp who does that would also have to be the first to actually have an audience with Satan.

For either of Lucrazia's daughters to not be hers would work. Lucia is sweet and nice, so maybe she's the daughter of Gerry and a former servant and switched with a stillborn infant (This has happened before). Perhaps Maripaz was switched with another baby and her parents are Juan Jeil-Me and Esther. This would make little Ivancito the product of incest, but that taboo's been broken.
 

This show came right out with all the secret blood and non-blood ties (Teodoro-Lucrezia-Alicia-Ivan-JJ), so I'm not going to speculate about any more. The only person we have no info on is Lucrezia's bio-dad.

I'm going to accept that both Maripaz and Lucia are Gerry's and Lucrezia's. Who else would sleep with the witch but Gerry or JJ, and there is NO way the writers would let Ivan boink his sisters. Maripaz also only had time and eyes for Ivan when she returned home, so I don't suspect that there is another daddy. Why would she choose poor, lowly Ivan to pin it on if she had another choice?
 

Totally thinking in English-language soap terms here: maybe Maripaz was fooling around with some other entitled one at the same time as her dalliance with Ivan, with Ivancito actually being his kid, and he's the one who pulled a Lucrecia on her and demanded she not reveal that he had gotten her pregnant. (Or Antolin. Or even Leandro, which would probably guarantee Lucrecia's head would explode.)
 

When I lived in Long Beach, there was a taco joint on the west side called Pedro O'Flynn's. We used to laugh, because my husband's name is O'Flynn and he is a 3rd generation Californian (Irish from Oakland, although his Norwegian grandmother was born in DF—go figure). It wasn't until we came east (Boston & NYC) that he realized how unusual the "O'" was in front of Flynn. Everybody out here wanted to know why it was still tacked onto the front of Flynn. But don't forget, the liberator of Chile was named Bernardo O'Higgins. I love stories about migration. The world is getting pretty full up with interesting mixtures.

Thank you Vivi, I love what you bring to your recaps. So much experience and intelligent explanation.
 

The only reason I brought up Lucia's different look from her parents & sister is this show has been pretty good about casting (teen Ivan w/dimples = adult Ivan w/dimples, child/teen/adult Lucia, Lil Camilo/Big Camilo etc.)

At any rate, LuCrayCray seems to love both girls a lot; she was happy to see Lucia the other night.

If Juan Jaime hates David for reading & thinks he's gay/sissy, I know he'd think Ivan was flaming for being excellent in math before finding out Ivan knocked up Maripaz (he already hates him...but the knocking up Maripaz news would probably swell Juan Jaime with pride that at least one of his sons knows what to do with his junk)
 

The TN's don't seem to pay much attention to family members looking alike. Look at Camilo (blond, blue eyes) & Antolín, (dark hair & eyes). Then of course they may not be products of the same padres.

Variopinta
 

Anon207:If Juan Jaime hates David for reading & thinks he's gay/sissy, I know he'd think Ivan was flaming for being excellent in math before finding out Ivan knocked up Maripaz (he already hates him...but the knocking up Maripaz news would probably swell Juan Jaime with pride that at least one of his sons knows what to do with his junk). Lol! Right on! I can see JJ with a satisfied smirk.

Star
 

I thought the kidnapper might be the servant who fawned over the kid, but the idea of the younger sister saving the baby is interesting.

Did anyone else think grandma was too harsh on Maripaz about not wanting to see the baby? She's giving it up for adoption. I don't blame her for not wanting to get attached (not that she would but it still would've been a valid point to grandma).
 

I guess casting depends on the show, but on TDA Maria looked like she could be the daughter of Victoria, and she and half sis Fernanda looked like they were sisters and daughters of Victoria.

Fernanda looked like the child of Victoria and Osvaldo, while Max looked like the child of Osvaldo & Leonela.

Then you have shows like STud, where Jose Miguel did NOT look like the son of either Leo & Fed OR Leo & Rosendo.

Actually looking at Camilo, Carmen & Antolin, and their parents, CAMILO looks like the outlier. Carmen & Antolin look like Celia & Silvestre.
 

Regarding the Irish in strange places thing - My father-in-law told me their family history includes some relation to The Kennedy Clan. Apparently some relative of Joe Kennedy went up and down the Amazon and fathered several children. One of those kids reproduced and down the line came my father-in-law. So my daughter has distant ties to the Kennedys!
 

And old co-worker of mine is Mexican but has some Irish roots. He is pale and has red hair. The others of his family do not. Genes have a weird way of bobbing back up to the surface of the pool when there has been any mixing of different gene pools.
 

Oh, and don't forget Juan O'Gorman, the famous Mexican muralist. If you've ever seen the UNAM library, you know who I'm talking about. Keeping the O-apostrophe seems like a sort of throwback to a few generations ago in non-Irish areas. We have only a very few names in the east which keep it.
 

Re Irish Connexions: My college buddy who was virtually born under the Blarney Stone believes -- or wants to believe -- that he has Spanish ancestry (no documentation available). One day while looking in a thrift shop for something else I found a pilsner glass that said "Carlos O'Kelly's Irish Bar and Mexican Restaurant". The lettering was green and the apostrophe was a red chili pepper. No city name was on the glass.

I gave it to him for Christmas that year and he was amused.
 

ViviDC: Terrific title and I got a belly laugh out of your Williscism! I, too, was incredulous as I viewed the porno producer scenes. DZ did those scenes justice. I could feel him turning all shades of red when the dude started talking to him and then threatened, trying to browbeat Ivan into compliance. Wowzers!
 

I LOVE DZ!!! he's so handsome. even when he plays a villain, I really admire him.
 

@ UA, I wish I had found that glass. How very cool!
 

UA,
mira aquí

http://www.carlosokellys.com/locations.html

Variopinta
 

Vario, that's great! Next road trip, I'll be sure to stop in one of them. My DH (the old Mick) is of the opinion that east coast Irish dropped the O-apostrophe in an attempt to assimilate because of the extreme anti-Irish sentiment in places like New York and Boston. I don't believe these prejudices were as strong in California (where he grew up and never heard of such a thing) or in the colonies, where the class and cultural prejudices were of a different stripe.
 

Now, how did that glass make it to a NYC Salvation Army Thrift Shop? Life is funny sometimes.
 





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