Saturday, August 13, 2011
La Fuerza del Destino #8 Fri 08/12/11 First Deserted In The Desert And Now Barely Surviving In A Cement Jungle
Capítulo 8
First the redux:
The coyote tells the illegals that he saw a patrol nearby the highway and then tells them to get down out of the truck; this is the endpoint for them all. They’re to have to make it the rest of the way to L.A. on their own. How? Oh, just follow the highway. Ivan says there’s no highway around there! How can he leave them like that? There’a a couple of kids and a woman in the group! Sorry, he only has enough gas to get back to the border! When it looks like the mojados will try to rush him, the coyote pulls a semi-automatic pistol on them and tells him to back off and back away. He and the other goon drive off in the truck, leaving Van and the others there to cross the hinterlands as best they can.
Ivan takes a look at the sun and figures the direction the city should be. He heads off in that direction with two other men, the two kids and their mother in tow. He tells the others they’ll have to walk through scrub land [matorral = scrub land/thicket] and hide in the bushes if the patrols come. Afraid of wolves, snakes and scorpions, they have no choice but to start walking with what little water and food they have remaining. (Let’s hope Van’s read enough to know he can use that machete to cut some of that cactus down if it comes to that!)
Meanwhile, back in Alamos, Senora: Cleto stops by Arcelia’s place and manages at least to speak with her daughter, Carmen, while Celia’s at the market. Ali cia supposedly left on a religious pilgrimage [peregrinación] a few days ago but she never returned. Carmen fills Cleto in about Ali’s death due to her (back-alley equivalent) abortion, and Ivan’s making his way to The States “de mojado” [as a wetback/ lit. a wet man].
The group of mojados and Ivan struggle on through the day, fighting their exhaustion.
Cleto reports back to Lucrecia about what he found out. Sheesh! “An abortion! Gawd knows who the father must have been, the whore!” She orders Cleto not to say a word about this to anybody and allows herself a teensy grin of satisfaction since, with Ivan on the lam, she’s got no more pretenders to her throne.
Meanwhile, it’s pretty obvious to Van and the other man, Cástulo, that they are much further away from Los Angeles than they were told. (Duh!) Van proposes that they rest a little while and travel at night. He shares his apples and says they’ll be running out of water eventually so the apple’s better cuz it’s juicy. (Tell me this isn't a PSA on how to safely cross the desert if entering the back way into the U.S.A.) Cas doesn’t want to travel at night cuz of fear of stepping on a snake or a scorpion. Van says snakes are out at all hours. That’s why he bought the machete. (We note they’re eating their few apples and chugging their water instead of saving that and utilizing the hundreds of cactuses nearby for the juice. I’d say that’s a much better use of that machete right now! Come on, Ivan is supposed to be smarter than the aaaa-ver-age bear!)
A bit later in town, Luscreechia and Juan Jaime run into each other in town. The two shoot the breeze a bit and he politely asks after Gerardo and things at El Socorro. She keeps up the front about the girls and says Gerardo is only gone to the big city to sell his parents’ house and should return soon. They go their separate ways, but Juan Slimy can’t resist a sly, lusting look at the old gal’s backside as he starts off. (Now that’s a good reason for me to really blow chunks!) Screechia hopes she’s managed to minimized the gossip.
Back in the hinterlands, the mother of the little girl who came with the others has a fever. Josue, her B-I-L, complains that they should have left them with their grandparents. As it is, they’ll have to go back now. Van and Cas are on their own.
Juan Jeil-me (Achtung!) at dinner tells Esther about his chat with Lu. He’s certain that if Gerry’s selling the house instead of renting it that it’s because the family’s hurting for cash. Esther thinks it’s odd that she sent both girls off to study in The States, especially when Maripaz said she didn’t want to go back again. JJ admits Lu looked pretty nervous during their chat. Esther changes the subject and asks JJ if the boys could eat dinner in a civilized manner at the house with the rest of them. JJ gets mad that she is trying to spoil them and turn them both into sissies when he’s trying to make men out of them. Let them eat with the rest of the cowboys! They’ll be fine! (Actually, I have to say I agree with JJ this time.) He’s so disgusted with her suggesting it tho’ that he blows up and leaves the table.
Sometime later that evening a border patrol helicopter passes close by the illegals. Ivan throws himself onto the ground but the searchlight falls on Castulo. In trying to evade the patrol, Castulo trips and hits his head on a huge pile of rocks. Van makes it to where Cas fell. He watches him die, reflexively kisses his mother’s rosary as he realizes his good luck—cuz hey, it could have been him there instead—and then buries Cas under some rocks.
The next morning Gloria asks LuScreechia if they could hire her niece to take Ali’s place. Grumpy says no since there’s nobody there except her now at the house and Gerry’s not coming back. Gerardo calls right after wanting to know where the girls are staying. At first she won’t say. (Damn! What a trying piece of work this dame is! It makes you wonder if the nasty broad doesn’t suffer from Oppositional Defiant Disorder! Or “O.D.D.”) Gerry screams back at her that he’ll go to Guayamos and start looking in every nook and cranny [hasta por debajo de las piedras=turn over every rock] and kicking up a scandal if he has to, so she rolls her eyes and relents.
Amidst all the cacti and scrubby brush, Van empties out the plastic jug of water he bought and leaves it. He struggles up off the ground and continues walking into the night along the desert which is closer than he realizes to the coastline the camera has just panned. (With a slight tightening of our beanies we will suppose also that he doesn’t stop to sleep that night or the following day and night either.)
In Guayamas Lucia and Maripaz talk about how they miss their daddy. Mari still is angry with him for not letting her abort like she and her mother wanted her to do. Now they’re stuck in that tiny little shack, in that miserable town, without their friends, bored to death, waiting for her belly to blow up like a balloon! Lucia suggests that it would be nice if they could they keep the baby, but Mari considers it nothing more than a nuisance. “—Nice for who? Pretty soon everyone would find out and know what happened!” Lucia suggests telling them it was one they picked up from somewhere. Ri-i-i-i-ght! Mari sneers back. All she wants is to go back to the way things were when she could be with her friends, i.e., partying, going to clubs, and enjoying herself! Lucia is disgusted with her selfish attitude. How would Ivan feel her wanting to be free of such a “nuisance”? Mari good give a rat’s patoot and says she hopes that Ivan is as miserable as she is right now!
It would seem that Ivan is. He’s crossing the desert without food and water and at high noon wondering how he ever got into such a fix.
Camilo, a nice enough guy but with a slack-jawed look that always makes you wonder if he’s got a full stack of pavers in his pile, is sitting in a bar knocking back a few tragos with Antolin and discussing what’s happening with Ivan. Anto is certain that the dude ought to be in L.A. by now. Cam still feels rotten about lying to Van about who really stabbed and killed the guy during the street fight and then convincing him to leave the country when he should have stayed and stuck it out in college. Anto is pissed at his little bro for bringing that up again. Anto’s not going to feel guilty about that. It was Van’s fault for getting involved with a rich guy’s daughter in the first place; that’s why they sent somebody to beat him up! Why should they get screwed [embarrar = get covered in mud /sh!t ] because they tried to help him out? Anto says, naw, he’s sure that Van’s probably got a job now and even an American girlfriend already, the sly son of a gun!
The next day Carlota calls Lu to give her their new phone number there. Lu gripes that Gerry forced her to give him their address and will probably show up there sooner or later. She doesn’t want the girls left alone with him cuz he might bad-mouth her to them. Carly hints broadly that that’s Luscreechia’s way of doing things, not Gerry’s, but it doesn’t matter now anyhow. He’s already come and taken the girls to lunch with him.
Van, meanwhile, falls down exhausted and nearly unconscious from heat and thirst. He cries out for his mother not to abandon him and kisses her rosary. A deadly [petting zoo?] scorpion approaches but he opens his eyes and notices it just in time. He gets up and kisses his mother’s rosary—his good luck charm—again and struggles on.
At lunch back in Guayamos at the beautiful marina there, Gerry tries convincing Mari to keep the baby; they could say it was some dead relative’s. “--Come off it! Nobody’s going to believe that! We’re not coming back with a kid in our arms like we picked up some stray dog!” (Yeah, I guess it does sort of defeat the purpose of them sticking it out in Guayamos.) People will figure it out, she reasons, and then she’ll end up single because no one will want to marry a girl with a kid. (Works for me!) Nope! Let somebody who can give him a decent home take him. She’s putting him up for adoption and that’s that!
That night, Van finally makes his way to the highway and sees the valley full of the lights of Los Angeles below it.
The next day back in Guayamos, Gerry’s left and Luscreechia has come for a quick visit with some looser fitting clothes for Mari. Lu fills in Carly about Alicia dying from an abortion and Van heading off to sneak into the U.S.
Carly goes to the church to pray for Ivan while the girls chat with their mother.
Van eventually makes it to Benito’s cousin’s house and knocks on the door. (It’s not the best of neighborhoods, we note.) One look and Bennie knows something went wrong. He should have arrived three days ago. Van tells Ben how the coyote’s abandoned them, etc. and that once he got near there the driver didn’t want to take him into the area. Bennie laughs and says yeah, the area has gangs [pandillas]. He offers Van a place to stay for a day or two till he can find a job and a room somewhere. Bennie laughs and says he’s a bit too chambroso [filthy] to look just yet. At least they have a bathroom and running water for him to clean up in.
Once Carly’s back, Luscreechia and she discuss Ali’s death a bit more freely with the girls gone to bed. Screechia has no sympathy for Ali, the lizard [lagartona]! Who knows who the father of that baby might have been, anyway. She isn’t sorry one bit the woman’s dead! Carly insists that she ought to let Mari wed Van, but Screechia refuses; he’s the son of a maid! Carly insists she was still Teodoro’s bio-daughter and as such, Ivan’s due her part of the inheritance! Screechia tries insisting that he took advantage of Maripaz and doesn’t deserve it. Carly reminds her that Mari was as much to blame as he was. Anyway, they can’t marry, Lu says, because they’re cousins! Carly snickers. “--Don’t give me that! You know perfectly well there was no real blood tie [parantezco] between you and Alicia! He’s a good kid and was ready to do his duty by Maripaz, which is more than I can say about your father!” Carly complains again about the way he knocked her up and the then snuk away like a coward! And, no, she hasn’t heard from him since and doesn’t want to. Her face lights up. She knows who Ivan’s pappy is though! “--He’s no crook, but he is a cad and a scoundrel [sinvergüenza]!” Screechia is shut-my-mouth-scandalized-impactada to learn that Ivan is Juan Jeil-me’s son.
The next day back in L.A., Bennie and Van discuss his chances of finding work there. Van is lucky, he says, because he doesn’t look “so Mexican”. He should be able to work pretty easily in a Mexican restaurant for a friend of his.
At the same time, back in Guayamos, Carly hands over the divorce papers Gerry left with her to LuScreechia. Just sign on the dotted line. It’s a no-fault divorce and they divvy up even-Steven.
In L.A., Van and Bennie arrive at the friend’s restaurant. “—This guy speaks English and goes to the university.” The owner, Rogelio, doesn’t want to hire him at first cuz it looks like he’s been in a scuffle and he wonders if Van’s got the border police out looking for him. Did he sneak into the country? No, Ivan lies. It was a family hassle. Bennie eventually talks him into taking Van on as a busboy [moso=bellhop, waiter, stable boy].
A day or two later, JJ pays a visit to Lu and mentions people are starting to talk. They all think Gerry left her. Lu admits then that they got a divorce and he went to Mexico to sell the house to divvy up the profits as part of the settlement.
In L.A. Van is going to look for someone he can room with from the restaurant.
JJ wonders if Gerry left Screechia for another woman. Heck no, she says! They never got on and he was so useless on a ranch. It’s all she can do to keep things afloat, no thanks to him! JJ offers his help in running the ranch since who knows what kind of untrustworthy thieves you get these days for foremen [caporales], especially when a woman is owner.” Lucretia gets a flirtatious grin on her face and starts playing with her earring. (Feeling a bit randy, are we, Lulu?) Oh, well, she’s sure she can trust Leandro, but she will accept his kind offer anyway.
That evening at work, Van introduces himself to one of the cooks, Augustin, and asks if he knows a place he can bed down. Augi takes Van with him after work to a place in some abandoned part of a parking garage where a bunch of mojados sleep. He’s welcome to join them. Van wonders why Augi hasnn’t looked for someplace else? Because he doesn’t care to, says Augi. (Ok….So much for some lesser parts of society.) So where are the facilities? There are public restrooms around. Van takes a flattened cardboard box and lays himself down for the night. He thinks about the last time he saw his mother. (Well, at least he’s alive and kicking.) Suddenly he sits up and prays. “Lord, I know what I’m asking is not decent, but please allow me the favor [dar me la gracia] to get even with all those who’ve done me wrong!!”
Five months go by. Gerry comes by and goes ga-ga over Mari’s big belly. He’s taking them three of them all out to eat. While the girls get ready, he hands Carly the final documents from the divorce. He couldn’t sell the house and has found a job with a construction company (but I didn’t catch whether it was a place in Alamos or in the D.F.)
After their meal the girls go to the restroom. Carly says it’s three months till the baby’s due. Gerry still doesn’t like the idea of a foundling home or an orphanage. Well, says Carly, it wouldn’t be any better for the kid having to live with Maripaz, either. She’s too immature for any of this. At least the baby has a chance to live with a family that will be able to give it the love and attention it won’t find living with them. He finds out that Ivan went to the U.S. With the look on Gerry’s face, obviously he doesn’t understand Van’s reckless and drastic decision.
Carly then suggests to Gerry that it’s time for him to start a new life and try to find a good woman, especially, she adds, after the horrible way her daughter treated him all these years.
Van writes a letter to Cam and he reads it to his family. Ivan writes that it was a nightmare [pesadilla] getting to L.A., but that luckily he’s found work as a busboy. He gives him Bennie’s address and asks for the family’s phone number. His dad says if that’s all there is in that note, then things are probably pretty bad there for him. Carmen asks why he had to leave when he should have stayed there! Cam looks away, feeling guilty as ever.
After reading the letter, Cam goes into his room and tears it up. The guilt is overwhelming. “—I don’t want any letters from you, Ivan! I tricked you and because of that you’re far away and all alone! I don’t want to read how you miss us or how it’s going for you. I don’t want to know anything about you!!”
Labels: Fuerza
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Dear Jardinera,
Thanks so much for another excellent recap, full of vim and vinegar.
This novela has every cliche in the book but it's compelling for me nonetheless. There's a small plot surprise here and there, I'm enjoying DZ and the many veteran actors we see all over Sonora and LA. Most of all, it moves!!!!!
Hoping for the best as we go along.
Thanks so much for another excellent recap, full of vim and vinegar.
This novela has every cliche in the book but it's compelling for me nonetheless. There's a small plot surprise here and there, I'm enjoying DZ and the many veteran actors we see all over Sonora and LA. Most of all, it moves!!!!!
Hoping for the best as we go along.
thanks, Jardinera. I wasn't able to watch this episode, so I especially appreciated your cleear, detailed recap. Wow. That was quite a trip. Do you think it will convince anyone not to try it ? If Ivan somehow does well for himself in the U.S., it might encourage people to take a chance. This novela is moving steadily and keeping my interest. I can't wait to see what happens next. At least we now know that the plan is to have the bebe adopted. Let's hope that the young sister learns who the adoptive parents are because I'm sure that when Ivan returns [as we know he will], he'll look for that bebe. Finally, with enemies like Lucrazia, Maripaz , and Juan Slimy and friends like Camilo and Antolin, Ivan doesn't need any more enemies. Poor soul.
Permalink posted by 
: Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 3:37:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 3:37:00 PM EDT
Thank you Jardinera! I got a giggle out of your yogi bear commentary when Ivan and Co. were pigging out on apples and water
Thanks, too for mentioning a beanie adjustment. We are no where near beanie wearing levels of TdA, but last night for the first time I felt the need to at least have the beanie near by (I think it was the convenient trip and fall into a rock and the subsequent burial...'cause Van had that kind of time.)
Luscreechia is not only an evil wench, she has the business acumen of a brick.
I thought the scene when Carly went to pray for Ali was really touching. Carly is really my favorite character.
Thanks, too for mentioning a beanie adjustment. We are no where near beanie wearing levels of TdA, but last night for the first time I felt the need to at least have the beanie near by (I think it was the convenient trip and fall into a rock and the subsequent burial...'cause Van had that kind of time.)
Luscreechia is not only an evil wench, she has the business acumen of a brick.
I thought the scene when Carly went to pray for Ali was really touching. Carly is really my favorite character.
Did I miss sth? Iván leaves Mex & all of a sudden there is L.A??
It was time to consult my atlas. To get to L.A. he would have to go through San Diego, La Jolla, Laguna, Long Beach,Redonda before getting to L.A. Doesn't look like he stopped anywhere before L.A. magically appeared. It doesn't even look like he stopped for water.
I just cked, it's 113 miles from San Diego to L.A.
Variopinta
It was time to consult my atlas. To get to L.A. he would have to go through San Diego, La Jolla, Laguna, Long Beach,Redonda before getting to L.A. Doesn't look like he stopped anywhere before L.A. magically appeared. It doesn't even look like he stopped for water.
I just cked, it's 113 miles from San Diego to L.A.
Variopinta
Permalink posted by : Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 5:55:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 5:55:00 PM EDT
I was so bewildered, I forgot to thank you Jardinera, michisimas gracias.
Variopinta
Variopinta
Permalink posted by : Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 6:03:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 6:03:00 PM EDT
Thank you for your detailed recap, I am trying to keep track of this one but don't have time to watch everynight.
Now, I really thought I have heard most of the comments on mental deficiency, ie, 'low marble count (LMC), the lights are on but no ones home, both oars not in the water, but "a full stack of pavers in his pile" is new to me. LOL.
Now, I really thought I have heard most of the comments on mental deficiency, ie, 'low marble count (LMC), the lights are on but no ones home, both oars not in the water, but "a full stack of pavers in his pile" is new to me. LOL.
Thanks, folks!
Variopinta: Just for grins, I went to Google Maps and checked for deserted desert area's and I figure perhaps they got dumped in the wilds around Palm Springs at the foot hills out in the boonies where there's pretty much only highway 10 and nothing else on either side for miles and miles. IDunno, cuz I'm not from around there. Anyway, I loaded it into my beanie's GPS and that did the trick. : ? ))
Variopinta: Just for grins, I went to Google Maps and checked for deserted desert area's and I figure perhaps they got dumped in the wilds around Palm Springs at the foot hills out in the boonies where there's pretty much only highway 10 and nothing else on either side for miles and miles. IDunno, cuz I'm not from around there. Anyway, I loaded it into my beanie's GPS and that did the trick. : ? ))
Certain novela events make me grateful for the hand I was dealt and I can't imagine how horrific it is to cross the border like this.
On the other hand, I know toxic parents very well. Luscreechia isn't their queen but she's definitely a lady-in-waiting to one. That Lucia is so sane and so nice is miraculous.
Maripaz's baby would be better off in any other household.
BTW, Mujeres Asesinas is back this Thursday on Univision and the Argentine episodes are back on Wednesday on Latele.
On the other hand, I know toxic parents very well. Luscreechia isn't their queen but she's definitely a lady-in-waiting to one. That Lucia is so sane and so nice is miraculous.
Maripaz's baby would be better off in any other household.
BTW, Mujeres Asesinas is back this Thursday on Univision and the Argentine episodes are back on Wednesday on Latele.
Jardinera, thanks for another super recap. I'm not in love with this TN, but at least stuff happens. I like Carlota, she tells it like it is. I'm glad y'all clarified the end of Ivan's journey...sort of. I figured I had just switched channels for a minute and didn't see the transition from fainting in the desert sands to the concrete jungle of LA.
La Paloma
La Paloma
Permalink posted by : Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 8:02:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 8:02:00 PM EDT
I am laughing so hard, Variopinta.
Start polishing your beanies everyone!
PS: The avances made me laugh out loud last night.
Start polishing your beanies everyone!
PS: The avances made me laugh out loud last night.
I like the idea of a built in GPS in the beanie, Iván has to return to Mex.
Variopinta
Variopinta
Permalink posted by : Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 11:36:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 11:36:00 PM EDT
I'm still getting my feet wet on this TN, some TN's take me longer to get into than others, TDA was one I had to drop, the beanie would have just killed my beautiful hair. I missed the ending and didn't see the letter ripping or avances. Can't wait for Ivan to grow up and make it back to MX to set off fireworks.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 11:47:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, August 13, 2011 at 11:47:00 PM EDT
I really can't wait until Monday's recap so I can spill the beans about what made me LOL.
I mean I guess technically it isn't a "spoiler" 'cause Univision *did* show it, but I am a rule follower lol.
I mean I guess technically it isn't a "spoiler" 'cause Univision *did* show it, but I am a rule follower lol.
Can't imagine how he got from an endless sand dune to that view of the LA basin. As several people have already pointed out, there are miles and miles of "civilization" in between.
Thank you Jardinera. I've decided to try this novela for a while in the hopes I'll get hooked. I need something to watch at 9PM when I get on the exercise bike. I do enjoy seeing faces from the past, especially Alborada. And the "usual suspects" are all assembled to recap and comment. How can I go wrong?
It was a brief appearance, but I think the doctor who treated Ivan for his injuries was the accountant Malaquias from Alborada.
Thank you Jardinera. I've decided to try this novela for a while in the hopes I'll get hooked. I need something to watch at 9PM when I get on the exercise bike. I do enjoy seeing faces from the past, especially Alborada. And the "usual suspects" are all assembled to recap and comment. How can I go wrong?
It was a brief appearance, but I think the doctor who treated Ivan for his injuries was the accountant Malaquias from Alborada.
Emarie/Susanlynn/rubycantu: Try going here and sub the number for whichever capitulo you've missed. The audio isn't always the best, but at least you can watch the action.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhsc0w_la-fuerza-del-destino-cap-8-parte-1-4_shortfilms
The last couple minutes will probably start Monday's show, tho'.
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AgnesNJ/ La Paloma/ Traveling Lady: glad to see you peeking in here. I didn't think I'd care much for this tn either, but I actually like it as far as it goes. Guess I would have liked to have seen Ivan a little more discerning at 19 about not taking off and leaving for the border. On the other hand, he's totally torn up both physically and mentally/emotionally and isn't thinking/can't be expected to think clearly. I somehow can relate to all the schmaltz here.
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Sara: Aptly and bluntly put! LOL!! "Luscreechia is not only an evil wench, she has the business acumen of a brick. "
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Urban: I guess I'm fortunate never to have met those kinds of toxic parents--or pretty naive! I'm sure they exist or their kind wouldn't fill the storybooks, eh? LOL!
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xhsc0w_la-fuerza-del-destino-cap-8-parte-1-4_shortfilms
The last couple minutes will probably start Monday's show, tho'.
===============
AgnesNJ/ La Paloma/ Traveling Lady: glad to see you peeking in here. I didn't think I'd care much for this tn either, but I actually like it as far as it goes. Guess I would have liked to have seen Ivan a little more discerning at 19 about not taking off and leaving for the border. On the other hand, he's totally torn up both physically and mentally/emotionally and isn't thinking/can't be expected to think clearly. I somehow can relate to all the schmaltz here.
=============
Sara: Aptly and bluntly put! LOL!! "Luscreechia is not only an evil wench, she has the business acumen of a brick. "
===========
Urban: I guess I'm fortunate never to have met those kinds of toxic parents--or pretty naive! I'm sure they exist or their kind wouldn't fill the storybooks, eh? LOL!
Thank you Jardinera.
I suppose the writers didn't want to dwell too much on how Ivan reached LA, hence one moment he is struggling in the desert and the next he is in LA. I would like to think he hitched rides, etc, and didn't walk all the way. Anyway, the message that 'I got' was that crossing the border is dangerous, there are unscrupulous persons who take advantage of the desperate. Some people die, some get caught, some return back the way they came, and some people make it.
I am surprised that Gerardo went ahead with the divorce. I really thought that he would have stayed with Lucrecia.
Guaymas looks so beautiful. Makes me want to be there now enjoying the scenery.
I have mixed feelings about Carlota. I like it that she sticks it to Lucresia, but she is also guilty of not revealing to Alicia that her father left her an inheritance. Now it is too late, Alicia is dead and Ivan has taken off because her daughter sent men to beat him up. So I am not totally on her side.
Margaret
Margaret
I suppose the writers didn't want to dwell too much on how Ivan reached LA, hence one moment he is struggling in the desert and the next he is in LA. I would like to think he hitched rides, etc, and didn't walk all the way. Anyway, the message that 'I got' was that crossing the border is dangerous, there are unscrupulous persons who take advantage of the desperate. Some people die, some get caught, some return back the way they came, and some people make it.
I am surprised that Gerardo went ahead with the divorce. I really thought that he would have stayed with Lucrecia.
Guaymas looks so beautiful. Makes me want to be there now enjoying the scenery.
I have mixed feelings about Carlota. I like it that she sticks it to Lucresia, but she is also guilty of not revealing to Alicia that her father left her an inheritance. Now it is too late, Alicia is dead and Ivan has taken off because her daughter sent men to beat him up. So I am not totally on her side.
Margaret
Margaret
Permalink posted by : Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 9:50:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 9:50:00 AM EDT
Thanks as always, Jardinera...and Variopinta too, because the location bit would have blown my mind if I'd seen it live. :)
Karma hit list (so far):
1. Lucrecia y Maripaz, egoistas (insert theme from Mujeres Asesinas here)
2. Antolin
3. Juan Jaime, Jerk
4. Carlota (for better or worse she's backed Lucrecia, even if it's been increasingy reluctantly)
Karma hit list (so far):
1. Lucrecia y Maripaz, egoistas (insert theme from Mujeres Asesinas here)
2. Antolin
3. Juan Jaime, Jerk
4. Carlota (for better or worse she's backed Lucrecia, even if it's been increasingy reluctantly)
Carmen sure doesn't know how to be discreet when she spilled the beans on what happened to Alicia and Ivan. Wonder if Lucrecia will also tell Gerardo about what she learned, and what will Gerardo do, confess that he was the babby daddy or squirm in his seat.
Margaret
Margaret
Permalink posted by : Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 10:27:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 10:27:00 AM EDT
Margaret: All valid points about the crossing messages one can take away!
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Bill C: Should we add Camilo also to the Karma hit list for keeping quiet about Anto's antics? And, shouldn't we add Maripaz for taking advantage of Ivan and then dumping on him to save her own skin like Grammy Carly did with the inheritance and the loan?
========
Bill C: Should we add Camilo also to the Karma hit list for keeping quiet about Anto's antics? And, shouldn't we add Maripaz for taking advantage of Ivan and then dumping on him to save her own skin like Grammy Carly did with the inheritance and the loan?
You have a point, actually...and not just for Camilo. So an updated karma hit list would probably go like this:
1. Lucrecia, Egoista (who's basically set nearly everything bad that's happened to Ivan in the show in motion)
2. Maripaz (whatever Lucrecia didn't do, she did)
3. Antolin and Leandro (henchmen represent!)
4. Juan Jaime, Jerk
5. Carlota (still reluctantly backing Lucrecia, even if she's calling her and Maripaz on their ish)
6. Camilo (for keeping quiet about Antolin's lies, though he might skate on this as the protagonist's dumb and handsome best friend)
7. Gerardo. (This one may be optional--if nothing else he has to beat himself up for getting Alicia pregnant, which led to the bargain-basement abortion and indirectly to her death.)
1. Lucrecia, Egoista (who's basically set nearly everything bad that's happened to Ivan in the show in motion)
2. Maripaz (whatever Lucrecia didn't do, she did)
3. Antolin and Leandro (henchmen represent!)
4. Juan Jaime, Jerk
5. Carlota (still reluctantly backing Lucrecia, even if she's calling her and Maripaz on their ish)
6. Camilo (for keeping quiet about Antolin's lies, though he might skate on this as the protagonist's dumb and handsome best friend)
7. Gerardo. (This one may be optional--if nothing else he has to beat himself up for getting Alicia pregnant, which led to the bargain-basement abortion and indirectly to her death.)
I just LOVED the little detail of Carlota reaching over to close Lucrecia's mouth (hand under chin) after L's jaw hit the floor upon learning JJ was Ivan's father. Made the episode for me LOL!
David Zepeda is a very good looking man, but he will be much more convincing for me when he is the grown-up confidant business man back home on a mission. I look forward to his interactions with the grown-up Maripaz- nightmare first love.
Thanks much for the fun recap Jardinera!
Beanie cap GPSs? LOL! I'm still getting used to the idea that one can actually drive across the US/MX border - i.e. no river. No mojado there!
Audrey
David Zepeda is a very good looking man, but he will be much more convincing for me when he is the grown-up confidant business man back home on a mission. I look forward to his interactions with the grown-up Maripaz- nightmare first love.
Thanks much for the fun recap Jardinera!
Beanie cap GPSs? LOL! I'm still getting used to the idea that one can actually drive across the US/MX border - i.e. no river. No mojado there!
Audrey
Permalink posted by : Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 11:36:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 11:36:00 AM EDT
Jardinera:
Thank you for the wonderful recap! Sorry to be chiming in so late, but I only just watched my recording.
Seems to me Ivan was crossing the Sonoran Desert, hence we could see the big body of water as the camera panned out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoran_Desert. There are no rivers to cross there Audrey.
Margaret- I totally agree about getting the message about how dangerous it is to cross, without them needing to make things worse or stretch it out. I actually thought Ivan was looking down the valley of another big city when he first emerges from the desert, and not L.A. Later, when he ends up in East L.A., they show a night sky line that is for sure L.A. And it was evident, from what he said about the driver not wanting to take him to the house because of the dangerous neighborhood, that he had been hitching at some point.
Wonderful karma list Bill! I totally agree with those you point out. I really like Carlota, but she really has let an injustice happen to Alicia, who is now dead, and Ivan. If she really wanted to do something to help Ivan, she would go to Celia's house, get his address, and get in contact with him to let him know that he still has her support. Instead, she's clearing her conscious by saying that Alicia is now reunited with Teodoro in Heaven, and saying a prayer for Ivan. NOT enough Carlota.
I was also LOL when Carlota manually shut Lucrezia's mouth after the JJ/Alicia reveal. But I really did not want Lucrezia to know that secret. She will just use it to hurt Ivan somehow later.
Question- Why were the other kitchen staff looking at Ivan with so much distrust? They must see new people who a fresh off the boat come and go all the time.
I learned two new phrases. When Benito introduces Ivan to the restaurant owner, he says Ivan speaks “gabacho.” Gabacho is slang for white person. It has also been used to describe Spaniards. In urban American-Latino terms it means English. He also said Ivan is “buena pinta”, which means good looking, but can also mean looks white/Spanish. Ever since he met with the Antolin’s coyote friend, there has been a big deal made about the fact that Ivan looks (white) and speaks (educated) differently than most illegal migrants. In my mind, this explained the hostility they are showing from the other workers.
This whole L.A. scenario is near and dear to my heart as I am an immigrant who grew up in gang-infested L.A. Ah, home! My parents and I came legally, however, and from the Caribbean. But many of the people I grew up with were from Mexico and Central America, and many of those were illegal.
Thank you for the wonderful recap! Sorry to be chiming in so late, but I only just watched my recording.
Seems to me Ivan was crossing the Sonoran Desert, hence we could see the big body of water as the camera panned out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoran_Desert. There are no rivers to cross there Audrey.
Margaret- I totally agree about getting the message about how dangerous it is to cross, without them needing to make things worse or stretch it out. I actually thought Ivan was looking down the valley of another big city when he first emerges from the desert, and not L.A. Later, when he ends up in East L.A., they show a night sky line that is for sure L.A. And it was evident, from what he said about the driver not wanting to take him to the house because of the dangerous neighborhood, that he had been hitching at some point.
Wonderful karma list Bill! I totally agree with those you point out. I really like Carlota, but she really has let an injustice happen to Alicia, who is now dead, and Ivan. If she really wanted to do something to help Ivan, she would go to Celia's house, get his address, and get in contact with him to let him know that he still has her support. Instead, she's clearing her conscious by saying that Alicia is now reunited with Teodoro in Heaven, and saying a prayer for Ivan. NOT enough Carlota.
I was also LOL when Carlota manually shut Lucrezia's mouth after the JJ/Alicia reveal. But I really did not want Lucrezia to know that secret. She will just use it to hurt Ivan somehow later.
Question- Why were the other kitchen staff looking at Ivan with so much distrust? They must see new people who a fresh off the boat come and go all the time.
I learned two new phrases. When Benito introduces Ivan to the restaurant owner, he says Ivan speaks “gabacho.” Gabacho is slang for white person. It has also been used to describe Spaniards. In urban American-Latino terms it means English. He also said Ivan is “buena pinta”, which means good looking, but can also mean looks white/Spanish. Ever since he met with the Antolin’s coyote friend, there has been a big deal made about the fact that Ivan looks (white) and speaks (educated) differently than most illegal migrants. In my mind, this explained the hostility they are showing from the other workers.
This whole L.A. scenario is near and dear to my heart as I am an immigrant who grew up in gang-infested L.A. Ah, home! My parents and I came legally, however, and from the Caribbean. But many of the people I grew up with were from Mexico and Central America, and many of those were illegal.
ViviDC: Thanks for filling in the geography blanks! I had no idea the roads/highways they would have taken from Sonora. Obviously geography isn't my favorite pastime. : ? ))
Thank you Jardinera for your week-end treat recap!
It looks like they are building up to a romance between Lucrecia and JJ (Juan Jaime). I don't think I have the heart or stomach to watch these two canoodling.
Some of us were suspicious of Benito earlier. He hasn't done anything to justify those suspicions yet, has he?
I, for one, was thankful for Ivan's condensed viaje across the border. I didn't need to see San Diego and all the other towns along the way. I think they got their point across about the danger and hazards involved.
I am loving everyone's comments, especially Vivi--Thank you for sharing your personal experience. You know whereof you speak! And, Sara, you have really piqued my curiosity about the lol moment coming up Monday. I will pay especially close attention!
Sondie
It looks like they are building up to a romance between Lucrecia and JJ (Juan Jaime). I don't think I have the heart or stomach to watch these two canoodling.
Some of us were suspicious of Benito earlier. He hasn't done anything to justify those suspicions yet, has he?
I, for one, was thankful for Ivan's condensed viaje across the border. I didn't need to see San Diego and all the other towns along the way. I think they got their point across about the danger and hazards involved.
I am loving everyone's comments, especially Vivi--Thank you for sharing your personal experience. You know whereof you speak! And, Sara, you have really piqued my curiosity about the lol moment coming up Monday. I will pay especially close attention!
Sondie
Permalink posted by : Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 1:23:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 1:23:00 PM EDT
Apparently crossing the Sonoran Desert has become more popular since the increase in patrols and the new fence/wall going up all over.
By the way, I would so love to spend a summer in that little house by the sea in Guaymas! It's so lovely.
Sondie, I'm guessing the Benito character is going to turn out to be the good guy we all hoped he would. But I was very nervous about his cozying up to Ivan on the bus. I think they did this to heighten the suspense about the dangers of crossing. One thing that tipped me off about his being good (aside from his name "benito" and his apparently benign character) was that he introduced himself with both his names, first and last. I took that as a sign of honor and trustworthiness, but I was still nervous for our Ivan.
Great recap Jardinera!
I have to say, I do have an issue with the way Carlota handles things even though she is also one of my favorites. She is not perfect, she has contributed to the injustice of Alicia's life by not helping her like Teodoro asked and she helped Lucrecia by letting her use Alicia's lands. As Vivi said she has done very little to help Iván after everything that has happened to him with Maripaz's pregnancy and Alicia's death. She has also created this plan to make Maripaz give birth away from prying eyes which is affecting Lucía's life and which takes away Maripaz's responsabilities and choices.
Jarocha
I have to say, I do have an issue with the way Carlota handles things even though she is also one of my favorites. She is not perfect, she has contributed to the injustice of Alicia's life by not helping her like Teodoro asked and she helped Lucrecia by letting her use Alicia's lands. As Vivi said she has done very little to help Iván after everything that has happened to him with Maripaz's pregnancy and Alicia's death. She has also created this plan to make Maripaz give birth away from prying eyes which is affecting Lucía's life and which takes away Maripaz's responsabilities and choices.
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 3:18:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 3:18:00 PM EDT
Jarocha: "She has also created this plan to make Maripaz give birth away from prying eyes which is affecting Lucía's life and which takes away Maripaz's responsibilities and choices." I believe it would have affected Lucia's life no matter what the choice. Watching Carly's family interact is reality t.v. for me and it's intrigued me! ITA that taking Lucia was unnecessary. Lucia shouldn't have had to go to Guayamas just to keep her mischievous big sis company.
Early on somebody asked when this novela was supposed to be taking place since we see no cell phones and very few people with home phones. My best guess would be that if it isn't a refrito of something already done once or twice before, it might be taking place as late as the late 1970's or the early 1980's. My age group will remember Carlota's suggestion was the one most often chosen in the U.S.A. by respectable families who wanted to avoid gossip or uncomfortable stares up until legitimate abortions became more easily obtainable in the latter '70's and early '80's. Alicia's "bargain-basement" abortion hit home because in the early 70's word got around about the OB's in the area who performed certain "services" for girls "in trouble". I knew a couple of girls in highschool in the late '60's who were sent off to a home and then returned. I knew a couple who'd gotten abortions in college before it was legit. Back then it wasn't socially acceptable to have a child out of wedlock let alone to keep it. Until the Great Society in the mid-'60's as I recall, there were no government checks to take the place of the father as a provider/role model. Whether one agrees to the propriety of these situations then or of the available alternatives in this day and age, that's the way it was for the American middle-class-lower, middle and upper middle class strata. Maripaz's attitude that she'd probably be left suitor-less was very indicative of the general public mindset. I was comfortable with Carlota's choice for Maripaz, though.
Early on somebody asked when this novela was supposed to be taking place since we see no cell phones and very few people with home phones. My best guess would be that if it isn't a refrito of something already done once or twice before, it might be taking place as late as the late 1970's or the early 1980's. My age group will remember Carlota's suggestion was the one most often chosen in the U.S.A. by respectable families who wanted to avoid gossip or uncomfortable stares up until legitimate abortions became more easily obtainable in the latter '70's and early '80's. Alicia's "bargain-basement" abortion hit home because in the early 70's word got around about the OB's in the area who performed certain "services" for girls "in trouble". I knew a couple of girls in highschool in the late '60's who were sent off to a home and then returned. I knew a couple who'd gotten abortions in college before it was legit. Back then it wasn't socially acceptable to have a child out of wedlock let alone to keep it. Until the Great Society in the mid-'60's as I recall, there were no government checks to take the place of the father as a provider/role model. Whether one agrees to the propriety of these situations then or of the available alternatives in this day and age, that's the way it was for the American middle-class-lower, middle and upper middle class strata. Maripaz's attitude that she'd probably be left suitor-less was very indicative of the general public mindset. I was comfortable with Carlota's choice for Maripaz, though.
Jardinera, you remind me of a terrible and frightening time. I had girlfriends who would gather up their money and fly to NYC (where it was legal in the late '60s) and have to suffer miserably with cramps all the way home wondering if they would come out alive. I also remember as a young nurse going to work at the Florence Crittenden Home for Unwed Mothers in Boston. It was a "benevolent" institution and a real haven for the girls unlucky enough to have gotten "caught", but the stigma was strong. Most families lied about where their daughter had gone. Pregnancy was a greater fear to a high school girl than venereal disease in those days and suicide was sometimes the result. AIDS didn't exist yet.
Agnes: Times have definitely changed! I'd forgotten about N.Y. being legal. Scary time for women-yes! It was a time I don't particularly care to remember, myself. I'd almost forgotten til Alicia's "trip" and Carlota's suggestion to take Maripaz away til after the birth. The one nice thing is that there were a number of families who found it easier to adopt back then. You rarely if ever heard of people going out of the country to find small children to adopt.
Who says you can't learn anything from a TN. I didn't realize that the mouth of the Rio Grande is in Colorado, probably because I never thought of it before. It defines the border between Mex & Texas & New Mex & Tx.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_Grande
variopinta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_Grande
variopinta
Permalink posted by : Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 7:06:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 7:06:00 PM EDT
I said the mouth of the Rio Grande is in CO, that would be source, the mouth is the Gulf.
Variopinta
Variopinta
Permalink posted by : Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 8:19:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 8:19:00 PM EDT
Jardinera: I think the show is taking place at the end of the 90's at the moment. While this type of situations may be long gone in the US, they are still present in México where abortion is only legal in DF.
Veracruz has the highest rate of deaths caused by back alley abortions in the country. Since DF decided to make it legal 17 states decided to criminalize it as a response. Unfortunately, my state was one of them and now you can spend up to 4 years in prison for having one there.
And in the state of Guanajuato it was just horrible, abortion there is tried as murder and there were women in jail condemned to 30 years for having abortions and even women sent to jail because people had filed accusations on the suspicion that they had gone out of the state to abort or that their spontaneous abortions hadn't been accidental and you can get up to 4 years in jail for having an abortion (and you know that here you are guilty until proven innocent). The Catholic priests were encouraging people during mass to investigate on women so they could get punished by the law if they chose to have abortions performed on them. It was like a witch hunt and until international NGO’s and IGO’s got involve to help those women and got the federal government involved nobody could do anything for them.
When I was in college one of my friends asked me for money because her cousin was pregnant and she had found out about a doctor who would do the abortion but it would be too expensive for their student budget. The girl couldn't get the needed money and she left who knows where to do it because it was cheaper, my friend was absolutely panicked for her cousin.
One of my uncles in my mother's family is actually my cousin because he is the son an uncle but was raised as the child of my grandparents, which he didn't knew about until he was older.
I guess that’s why Carlota’s choice did bother me, because it wasn’t Maripaz’s. Maripaz couldn’t even tell her parents on her own that she was pregnant because Iván took that job upon himself. And while I understand why Iván did what he did and why Carlota did what she did, those actions still bother me because, as awful as Maripaz is, she should have a say on what she is going to do. Even if by law she can’t do what she wanted then at the very least she should have been present when her grandma decided what to do and opine, instead of just receiving the instruction. But that’s a clear representation of something that is still present: women often don’t get to have a say on their lives if they become pregnant before marriage, since they usually live with their parents. Then after they get married, every choice has to be approved by the husband. Things are changing fast, especially in this decade, but we are still too behind to catch up, especially in less urban areas.
Jarocha
Veracruz has the highest rate of deaths caused by back alley abortions in the country. Since DF decided to make it legal 17 states decided to criminalize it as a response. Unfortunately, my state was one of them and now you can spend up to 4 years in prison for having one there.
And in the state of Guanajuato it was just horrible, abortion there is tried as murder and there were women in jail condemned to 30 years for having abortions and even women sent to jail because people had filed accusations on the suspicion that they had gone out of the state to abort or that their spontaneous abortions hadn't been accidental and you can get up to 4 years in jail for having an abortion (and you know that here you are guilty until proven innocent). The Catholic priests were encouraging people during mass to investigate on women so they could get punished by the law if they chose to have abortions performed on them. It was like a witch hunt and until international NGO’s and IGO’s got involve to help those women and got the federal government involved nobody could do anything for them.
When I was in college one of my friends asked me for money because her cousin was pregnant and she had found out about a doctor who would do the abortion but it would be too expensive for their student budget. The girl couldn't get the needed money and she left who knows where to do it because it was cheaper, my friend was absolutely panicked for her cousin.
One of my uncles in my mother's family is actually my cousin because he is the son an uncle but was raised as the child of my grandparents, which he didn't knew about until he was older.
I guess that’s why Carlota’s choice did bother me, because it wasn’t Maripaz’s. Maripaz couldn’t even tell her parents on her own that she was pregnant because Iván took that job upon himself. And while I understand why Iván did what he did and why Carlota did what she did, those actions still bother me because, as awful as Maripaz is, she should have a say on what she is going to do. Even if by law she can’t do what she wanted then at the very least she should have been present when her grandma decided what to do and opine, instead of just receiving the instruction. But that’s a clear representation of something that is still present: women often don’t get to have a say on their lives if they become pregnant before marriage, since they usually live with their parents. Then after they get married, every choice has to be approved by the husband. Things are changing fast, especially in this decade, but we are still too behind to catch up, especially in less urban areas.
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 8:55:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 8:55:00 PM EDT
Jarocha: I had no idea how strict it is in Mexico! I always hated the fact growing up that women were the ones to have all the responsibility fall on themselves--at least until the advent of the pill. To the extent the pills stayed effective, they finally had some control over their bodies. Abortion is the final say, obviously. Granted, the pill's not a sure thing, but it and the legalizing of abortion helped change a lot of the social mores in this country I feel, for better or for worse. But, that's a topic for another day.
As for Maripaz, are you saying that she would have been legally pursued and harassed in Sonora if she'd gone to another state in Mexico that allows abortions once somebody found out she'd been pregnant? If so, then Carlota's decision makes sense back then, and at least Maripaz has the choice of keeping the kid or giving it up for adoption. She put her foot down to Gerry about that. IMHO Carlota was correct in saying that she's still a kid herself and the child would be miserable in that dysfunctional family's situation.
On the other hand, is there still a legal reason for Carlota to have kept Ivan from knowing he's heir to part of El Socorro? Did the original loan ever get repaid in full or is that unpaid loan still dangling over Lucrecia and Carlota's heads?
As for Maripaz, are you saying that she would have been legally pursued and harassed in Sonora if she'd gone to another state in Mexico that allows abortions once somebody found out she'd been pregnant? If so, then Carlota's decision makes sense back then, and at least Maripaz has the choice of keeping the kid or giving it up for adoption. She put her foot down to Gerry about that. IMHO Carlota was correct in saying that she's still a kid herself and the child would be miserable in that dysfunctional family's situation.
On the other hand, is there still a legal reason for Carlota to have kept Ivan from knowing he's heir to part of El Socorro? Did the original loan ever get repaid in full or is that unpaid loan still dangling over Lucrecia and Carlota's heads?
Just checking back in on the very interesting new comments. Jarocha~~~Thanks for all that information about Mexico. Who knew I would learn so much when I fell down the rabbit hole of telenovelas with Alborada a few years ago. As for abortions, I don't know anyone who has had one . In high school, several girls who got pregnant married the baby daddy. Some of those marriages have lasted. My best friend got pregnant just after college. She raised the baby alone with her mother's help and married when her daughter was two. She told me that she could not contemplate either an abortion or putting her baby up for adoption. She is one of the strongest women I knew. Her mother left her abusive alcoholic father , and they were quite poor when we were growing up. To this day [many years later], she thanks me for standing by her in her decision. She wrote me a letter a few years ago telling me that my support was so important because her aunts were awful to her and she even contemplted suicide. Her daughter has grown into a wonderful woman. We never know how much we can affect those around us. Today, I am closer to her than I am to my own sister. We've shared a lot through the years..raising children, caring for elderly parents, dealing with job issues.
Permalink posted by : Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 9:32:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 9:32:00 PM EDT
What a great discussion. Thank you Jarocha for chiming in with some facts about abortions in Mexico. You are a good friend for loaning your friend money for her cousin. I also understand your point of view about Maripaz being left out of all the decisions.
Good luck with school this semester!
Thanks for sharing your experiences Jardinera and Susanlynn. I grew up in the post Roe v Wade era, and boy am I glad! However, where I grew up in the inner city during the 80s and 90s, teen pregnancy was rampant. No birth control, not abortions, and no adoption. Just lots of unprepared teen moms, as young as 13!
Good luck with school this semester!
Thanks for sharing your experiences Jardinera and Susanlynn. I grew up in the post Roe v Wade era, and boy am I glad! However, where I grew up in the inner city during the 80s and 90s, teen pregnancy was rampant. No birth control, not abortions, and no adoption. Just lots of unprepared teen moms, as young as 13!
Jardinera: No, Maripaz wouldn't be tried if she had gone to another state or country to get an abortion. That was something that happened in Guanajuato between 2007-2010, when abortion was considered murder by the law there (it still is, but under a smaller punishment). They have also banned sex-ed from public schools, mentioning only that women should remain chaste until marriage. Coincidentally, Guanajuato has now the highest rate of mothers below 16 years old in México.
Sonora approved an anti-abortion law in 2008 that criminalized abortion but they don't penalize it if it happened elswhere. Before that, while abortion wasn't legal, it was also not punishable so Maripaz wouldn't have gone to jail then.
Some states in 2007-2008 even banned the morning after pill and the IUD.
Jarocha
Sonora approved an anti-abortion law in 2008 that criminalized abortion but they don't penalize it if it happened elswhere. Before that, while abortion wasn't legal, it was also not punishable so Maripaz wouldn't have gone to jail then.
Some states in 2007-2008 even banned the morning after pill and the IUD.
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 9:58:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 9:58:00 PM EDT
Suslynn: I've seen that too, girls getting pregnant and getting married for that reason. It happened to a cousin, unfortunately her marriage didn't have a happy ending but at least her parents helped her afterwards.
Vivi: Thank you! I'm going to be a little bit more busy this semester but the classes look great.
We have birth control available in clinics but the root of the problem comes from a big lack of sex education. There's also a reluctance from the parents to speak with their children, they just let schools take care of it and many schools are reluctant to touch the subject and if they do, they do it in superficial ways and until the teens are above 14.
You'd think that with this problem Mexico would have huge birth rates. Interestingly enough we don't, we aren't that far from the US actually and our birth rates are diminishing every year. That's because we oddly have a great system of education in family planning for married women. If we could only improve sexual education for the young and reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, sigh.
Jarocha
Vivi: Thank you! I'm going to be a little bit more busy this semester but the classes look great.
We have birth control available in clinics but the root of the problem comes from a big lack of sex education. There's also a reluctance from the parents to speak with their children, they just let schools take care of it and many schools are reluctant to touch the subject and if they do, they do it in superficial ways and until the teens are above 14.
You'd think that with this problem Mexico would have huge birth rates. Interestingly enough we don't, we aren't that far from the US actually and our birth rates are diminishing every year. That's because we oddly have a great system of education in family planning for married women. If we could only improve sexual education for the young and reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies, sigh.
Jarocha
Permalink posted by : Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 10:36:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, August 14, 2011 at 10:36:00 PM EDT
Jarocha:
I have to chime in with ViviDC. You are a treasure trove of cultural information! You are our very own Mexican Ambassador! It is such a treat to get your side of the story! Once again, thank you for making this blog such a terrific and informative experience.
I have to chime in with ViviDC. You are a treasure trove of cultural information! You are our very own Mexican Ambassador! It is such a treat to get your side of the story! Once again, thank you for making this blog such a terrific and informative experience.
Hear hear!!!
I love hearing from Jarocha!
I agree with everyone, on the surface we are just watching a TN...but oh! it is so much more!
I love hearing from Jarocha!
I agree with everyone, on the surface we are just watching a TN...but oh! it is so much more!
Wow; thanks for that information.
Since Ivan is the hero of this story we have to credit him with naivete in telling Carlota. Tonight we should be finding out what happens to the baby.
Since Ivan is the hero of this story we have to credit him with naivete in telling Carlota. Tonight we should be finding out what happens to the baby.
Jarocha I always read your posts with interest. I am learning from you so much about Mexico, the people and the culture. Thank you.
Margaret
Margaret
Permalink posted by : Monday, August 15, 2011 at 4:25:00 PM EDT
: Monday, August 15, 2011 at 4:25:00 PM EDT
Jardinera thanks for a great recap.
I loved when Carlota closed Lucrecia's mouth when she found out who Ivan's real father was too.
Yeah Ivan has a lot of people to take revenge upon too.
I love Carlota but i believe she does have a duty to tell Ivan that he is her late husband's grandson and entitled for half of the estate.
I wonder what she'll do when he comes back for revenge.
So Lushrew is chasing after JJ now there's a match made in hell.
Camilo you should feel guilty know one told your stupid brother to use a knife in that fight. But on top of that he took most of the money Gerry had left for Ivan.
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I loved when Carlota closed Lucrecia's mouth when she found out who Ivan's real father was too.
Yeah Ivan has a lot of people to take revenge upon too.
I love Carlota but i believe she does have a duty to tell Ivan that he is her late husband's grandson and entitled for half of the estate.
I wonder what she'll do when he comes back for revenge.
So Lushrew is chasing after JJ now there's a match made in hell.
Camilo you should feel guilty know one told your stupid brother to use a knife in that fight. But on top of that he took most of the money Gerry had left for Ivan.
Permalink posted by : Monday, August 15, 2011 at 5:17:00 PM EDT
: Monday, August 15, 2011 at 5:17:00 PM EDT
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