Caray, Caray!

Take your time and don't stress! Hope things are going well.

My fave part of the evening: Little Alex tossing his ice- cream at Saul and moving in to protect Lucia. That kid has spunk!
 

Sara I totally agree! lots of good moments, but that was awesome. I remember cheering and applauding him, although the heavyness of the situation was portrayed well by Lucia.
 

Bless you for even doing it under the circumstances!
The moment I liked was it seemed like Ivan and Cam were getting along a bit. Unless I totally misunderstood the dialogue.
 

But, it looks like if Saul were murdered there would be many good suspects.
 

Jardinera- Can't wait!

Sara- That was my favorite moment also. Alex threw his ice-cream at Saul and then went after him to protect Lucia.

Also loved David swearing to throw Saul's sorry a** in jail, and Anto swearing to "take care" of whoever it was who did this to Lucia, whom he considers part of his family. Add Ivan and Camilo to the mix and that's a LOT of angry dudes that are going to be after Saul when the truth comes out to everyone.
 

Emarie - You interpreted correctly. Ivan and Camilo were acting like best old buds from earlier days. I think the writers were emphasizing that since they were now on equal footing - both having lost Lucia - there was no longer any rancor between them. Hard to believe, but clearly presented.

LOVED the scene where wily JJ puts 20 and 20 together and then confronts Saul on his suspicions. Expresses disgust and tells Saul no way would Lucia marry her rapist. Awesome face closeups on JJ - this actor is so good at these kinds of scenes. Too bad that later JJ succumbed to temptation to turn it into a way to get at the Curiel holdings again - argh!

It's kind of fun seeing the very old-fashioned sexist (machista) attitudes of JJ portrayed in this TN. Like how convinced he is that no woman ever has a brain, in spite of all the evidence around him to the contrary.

By the way: word origin of macho. Not Spanish! It's Aztec (nauatl). In the old days it meant someone exemplary - someone to be emulated. Probably referring to the bravest, fiercest, meanest warrior on the block LOL! So the word and related concept are deeply embedded in the Mexican culture, and just borrowed by others, not that sexist attitudes aren't rampant in other cultures. I only learned about the origin recently.

Audrey
 

Ok ladies --and any gents-- it's up. If there are any corrections or whatever, just let me know and I'll take care of it. Ok....back to boxes and bedroom drawers.
 

Good luck, J., and take your time.

Good episode, with the ice cream incident the best. I really did feel sorry for Lucia at that moment.

Could it be that MP is on her way to perhaps a partial redemption? I could not believe that amidst her tears she reinterpreted the rape of Lucia as something that could happen to her. She and JJ get the narcissism award for this novela, with Lucrezia and Saul close runners-up.

I do hope that Antolin and Carolina live happily ever after. I agreed with someone who wrote yesterday that there was a funny shadow (heavy music maybe?) that made its way through the wedding. And now, with Ivan, he's on the revenge express.
 

Important reference for this group (remember escuincle?): List of Spanish Words of Nahuatl origin

The macho word origin is noted in reference footnote 4. This is by far the best explanation I have read.

They don't mention it in the article, but I have also noticed Mexican slang or colloquial words with "ch" often seem to be of indigenous origin.

Audrey
 

Jardinera- Fabulous job from memory! Thanks for getting that up for us despite still unpacking and the lack of a recorded episode.

I will just say that Ivan didn't say he'd forgive Lucia for being raped. He thought briefly that she had indeed had a fling with another guy. It wasn't until after he told Tony what he said that Tony confirmed that Lucia had been raped and got on his case for saying something so supremely stupid.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for Anto. The writers would have had people in Mexico lynching them if they harmed such a beloved couple as Anto and Caro. No way will they let anything happen to him after they've gone through so much already. Are you listening to me writers?
 

Audrey- Great word list. Thanks! We have discussed the origin of esquincle a few times on the blog. It's used so much in tns and is such an unusual word.

Camilo seems to have finally given up on getting Lucia back this episode, and therefor is acting like a normal human being again. I think Ivan has been ready for them to go back to being civil with each other for a long time, so I wasn't surprised by him being willing to talk business without all the drama. Plus they are united in wanting Lucia to be happy, but being shut out by her. They are both worried about her.
 

Well as usual your recap cleared a lot up for me, Jardinera, I totally missed that Gordo/Saul mishegas about kidnapping Alex. Really Saul, you didn't learn your lesson with Lucrezia??? The two most incompetent criminals in TN land?
Even MP drew back at that rape. Saul is going to have a very bad ending according to TN rules.
 

Thank you J for the wonderful recap
and take your time with the move. I loved the ice cream scene especially Alex throwing it at Saul and kicking him. Also, agree with everyone about Merry Piece. Maybe she can be partially redeemed after all. Lucrazy is just spilling the secrets all over especially to Juan HeilMe. She should have just told the town crier for heaven's sake. And Alex being kidnappped. Gordo and Saul think they are so clever. I hope the anvil hits them hard and puts them out of their misery.
 

1) I knew Alex would be a target for Saul/Gordo once the McGuires came back to town. Alex is worth much more money than Lucrazia.

2) Sounds like a "Who Shot Saul?" storyline is coming up with potential suspects:

a) Lucia, for having been raped by Saul (unlikely)

b) Ivan

c) Camilo

d) Antolin

e) David

f) Carlota (unlikely but hey, it could happen)

3) Even though JJ may be disgusted with Saul for raping Lucia, I knew he would take the opportunity to use the situation to try to merge the lands.

4) I will give Maripaz a pass on thinking about Lucia's rape in terms of what could happen to her. Lucia never goes to clubs, and slipped a mickey and raped. Maripaz goes to clubs all the time; she could have gotten slipped a mickey at any time and raped. Maripaz is probably thinking about how lucky she is.

5) It's a sad day when Maripaz, who HATES Lucia, believes Lucia's rape story but Lucrazia doesn't.
 

Maripaz thinking about being raped? Why would anyone need to rape her, she's always available to anyone, they just have to ask.

It was good to see Lucia have some real emotions like when Saul approached her at the park and she tore into him.
 

Jardinera, thanks for your recap. I hope unpacking goes by swiftly and you get situated in your new home soon.

ITA w/all those who loved Alex tossing his ice cream at Saul. It was priceless!

I can't believe Saul and Gordo are stupid enough to try to plan another kidnapping. It just provides an opportunity for both of them to get killed.

And though Antolin has turned over a new leaf, those two idiots are toast when he gets wind of their stupid scheme.

Audrey -thanks for the info on macho.

Vivi - if the writers do something to mess up Caro/Anto at this point this TN will become infamous for messing up one of the best TN couples EVER.

Anon207 - yes its a very sad day when MP believe her sister while their wretched mother does not. I wish she had married JJ and gotten suck with him; that should be her punishment.
 

Jardinera, thanks for your dedication in giving us a recap even though you are not quite yet set up for it.

Now, how is Gordo back in town without repercussions? Why has he not been hauled up in front of the authorities about Gerardo's murder? His name came up often enough during the interrogations. The case should be still open.

I saw Maripaz imagining being a victim of drugged rape as a big step forward for her. First of all, she is actually able to put herself in the victim's shoes and feel empathy - really a first for her. I was afraid she was going to somehow belittle Lucia's being a victim, but instead she took it totally seriously and treated Lucia with respect. She got a good dose of "there but for the grace of God go I", and the wakeup call seems to have stuck. I'm glad she is realizing how she has exposed herself to similar crimes by her reckless lifestyle. I don't see much hope for redemption, but awareness is a big step.

Pretty tired of the kidnapping plot development. Here we go again with Sonora's dumbest criminals!

Funny how many of you expressed concern about Ester "wasting" money on Saul's operation since we know the anvil will likely annihilate him. This has really had me chuckling LOL!

Audrey
 

I was absolutely grossed out that JJ would use poor Lucia's rape as a way of uniting the families/lands. I hope that since Ester was disgusted too, she will take up Lucia's cause if JJ tries to push it.

I was shocked by Maripaz...she honestly does seem to feel bad for Lucia, just a little bit. Maybe she can change, even if just a little bit.

By the way, obviously I am new, but I have been lurking for sometime. :) My mom and I got into watch TNs because my abuelita would ask her all the time if she was watching any, and mom started watching to have something to chat about with her. She got hooked, and eventually I started getting into many of them too. I'm watching Cuando Me Enamoro and La Fuerza del Destino right now when I get the opportunity.

I'm taking Spanish II in college right now, so I thought I'd supplement it by being more consistent with my TNs and start commenting here. :)

I may be a little scarce at times because I'm working on an AA and tutoring on the side, but I look forward to getting to know everyone and dishing about the TNs!
 

Tks Jardinera, if I had just moved, you wouldn't hear from me for a LONG time.

¡Por favor! not another kidnapping. Do they HAVE to have that in every novela, in this case twice, Dios mio? With dumb & dumber, Alex will outsmart them.

Variopinta
 

Jardinera, you rock for doing this under these conditions.

I am wondering whether JJ and Lucrazia would really try to push Lucia into marrying Saul in the knowledge that he was her rapist. If so that would be so beyond cruel that both of them would deserve some serious Telenovela Justice.

No redemption for Maripaz; by tomorrow's episode she will be as bad as ever. I don't think her reaction to Lucia's rape is much more than her own relief that this didn't happen to her (as far as she can remember).

It's kind of fun seeing the very old-fashioned sexist (machista) attitudes of JJ portrayed in this TN. Like how convinced he is that no woman ever has a brain, in spite of all the evidence around him to the contrary.

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. The friend with the alcoholic mother experienced extreme sexism from the males in her family. When told by her teachers that she was in the top 5% of her class her father said "That's nice, but about as useless as t*ts on a bull." I couldn't even think of a response when she told me that.

No intelligent woman needs to put up with jerks like this.
 

Welcome Annaleigh! What a great story. How wonderful that you and your mom started to watch tns for your grandma. Comment when you can, here and on CME. However, both are ending soon.

I want to see what Lucrezia's reaction is going to be when she finds out that the rapist is Saul. I don't hold out much hope for her being more understanding with Lucia, but at least all that bs she keeps spewing about people who come from the best families, like the Mondragons, will be shown for the nonsense it is.
 

And when is somebody going to get intelligent and stop behaving as though rape victims are "damaged goods"?

I anticipate another big verbal smackdown between Carlota and Lucrazia within the next two episodes.
 

One of the times Jarocha dropped in and commented on the culture of the northen Mexican states like Senora where this takes place, she did say that the north is very machista. So many of the attitudes we have seen displayed by the people of Alamos are not unusual for that region. She also said that the strong matriarch, like the Curiels have, is more unusual there. Instead it's more common to have strong patriarchs like JJ. In the south, strong matriarchs are more the norm.
 

I thought JJ and MP were so close to humanity, but then they both blew it. I took Maripaz's reaction to her sister's rape as more self-centeredness. More "what about me?". And JJ actually got mad at Saul! And then ruined it by suggesting that he and Lucia marry. Yes, because what else could a rape victim do, living as they do in Afghanistan. What an idiot. Ester should still leave him.

Kelly
 

Welcome Annaleigh I hope you enjoy commenting here and you and your mother find others TNs to watch with us.
 

Annaleigh, welcome. I got hooked on these TNs, too, trying to learn Spanish. I think I am more hooked on the recaps than the TNs, though. It is amazing at the quality of the recaps, I suspect many of the recappers have important jobs in their other lives.
For me, trying to learn Spanish and watching the TNs became a hobby.
It's nice that it gives you something to talk about with your mom.
 

Welcome, Annaleigh. Ditto to what the others have said. The CC is all in Spanish and when you turn that on it's great to listen and hear the actual words as you would if you lived in Mexico! Eventually you may not need to read them as you hear them to understand. That's the goal, anyway. ; ? ))
============

Thanks again all for taking the time to read. Off to a busy week ahead!
 

I rewatched this episode this morning because JJ's attitude is blowing my mind.

How on earth can he believe that Lucia would never remember that Saul was the rapist? Or would this not matter if it didn't happen before JJ stole the Curiel lands?

Not to mention that Carlota would never agree to paying a dowry in this day and age.

I can't wait for tonight's episode. Now that Ivan has figured out that Saul is the culprit we can expect lots of action.
 

Yep, JJ is caught in a prior century or two! He's just so greedy and cunning he can't help himself.

And what's with these not-quite-so-old fogeys (JJ Lucrezia Ester) thinking that life is over for Lucia since she is "damaged goods" and thus should be grateful for accepting the dregs of society? It's laughable. Not even the "real" old fogeys Carly and Tony think this way!

These are just excuses for pushing another agenda, although I do suspect that JJ and Lucrezia really believe "life is over" for Lucia. Dummkopfs! And maybe Ester does too as her world view is so narrow.

I have to say the TN does a good job of portraying these antiquated attitudes. Lucrezia's world view has been wonder since day 1!

Audrey
 

Jardinera: Another marvelous recap. You are amazing! Thank you so much for doing this when you have far more pressing things to do. We so appreciate you!

So many wonderful lines but my favorite was "slimy snake in the grass S-s-s-s-s-saul (again, Viewerville’s description".

Audrey, ITA you about Gordo. WTH?? Why is he STILL loitering around town in plain sight when he should be in jail, locked away for the rest of his miserable life. Ack.

And the daisys! The beautiful daisys (my favorite). What a beautiful scene. I used quite a bit of kleenex - it was simply lovely. I will be heartsick if anything happens to either Anto or Caro.

Hoping Cam and Anto will cool off (somewhat) before they rush to mete out justice to Gordo and Saul. As we already saw, Gordo panicks under pressure and Saul is a coward and completely unpredictable. So, cooler heads will need to prevail.

Diana
 

Not to mention all three (Ester, JJ, Lucrazia) are silly. Do they really think the drunken town slut (Maripaz) was able to find not one (David) but TWO (Ivan) husbands, but rape victim Lucia is damaged goods that nobody will touch?

Everybody knows Camilo would take her back in a heartbeat and Ivan came back to Mexico to get Lucia.

JJ's motives: get Saul & Lucia married to a) cover up the rape and b) get his hands on Lucrazia's* land.

Lucrazia's motives: Get Lucia married off into the prestigious Mondragon family.

Ester's motives: Protect her good family's name.
 

Mad props to you, Jardinera, for taking time during a move to bust this out.

Saul...I don't think there are words in either English or Spanish for how doomed he now is. Even over Gordo (a theory: Gordo drops a dime on him to save his own skin?), since he now has nearly everybody in three separate families gunning for him--and the few that aren't are already damaged goods themselves. I suppose it'd be repeating itself to have Saul somehow end up being killed by fire, but...
 

Saul deserves a worse fate.

There was a novela about 10 years ago called El Precio de tu Amor whose villain was guilty of raping the heroine (and one or two others). I think he also committed murder. His fate:

In the finale he got into a fist fight with the hero who landed an uppercut to his jaw, which sent him into a cutting machine or a saw. A horrified expression on the hero's face indicated that something nasty happened. In the next scene the villain is entering a prison cell on crutches because he had lost part of a leg. The heroine's father is in the prison for a white collar crime and at his facial expression his cellmate asks "Wnat's wrong?" He answers "That's the SOB who raped my daughter."

The entire cellblock gangs up on the rapist. Cut to the next scene.

This is what Saul deserves.
 

Appropriately karmic, UA, though with nobody related to Saul or Lucia currently in jail we lose out on the whole "That puta raped my sister/sister-in-law/nieta/etc.!" factor. Perhaps Saul and Gordo could flip on each other and end up taking each other out...or (perhaps as an ultimate redemptory act) Lucrezia could flip out and kill him...?
 

I just love reading all the comments! Annaleigh, you will certainly learn lots of usable Spanish from the TNs! My Spanish went from 0 to 80 in a year, mostly from TNs!
My hopes and or expectations for tonights episodes (and the remaining few)
-that the potential kidnapping of Alex will be thwarted before he gets frightened or has to suffer
-that Maripaz will meet her demise as a part of the Alex-kidnap plan
-that Lucrezia will encounter a once-and-for-all battle by bringing up marriage to Sssssaul AFTER everyone else knows he's the rapist BEFORE they get a chance to tell her
-that Camilo and Antolin and Ivan all have a hand in the demise of Sssaul, but that if anyone has to take the fatal fall of the anvil it's Camilo.
Although I feel certain there are more tears of anguish for Carolina, I certainly hope the writers will end it happily for the two of them. I feel that its going to be impossible for Ivan and Lucia to live happilyeverafter if Camilo is looking on in lifelong suffering, (and the show IS subtitled "The story of Ivan and Lucia", right? so unless we are being led on...)therefore it seems imperative that he not survive ultimately. I've always wondered if he truly love Lucia, or just wanted to (as he put it to the divorce lawyer) "win this plate" over Ivan. I hope if he really loves her, he'll have a chance to prove it.
I must say I lost all respect I had garnered for Esther when she left Juan Heilme after she seemed to be telling him how despicable he was yet still going to do his bidding!
 

I keep hoping to see the day when someone like Lucia kills a rapist as a act of self-defense and that such a plot point isn't restricted to programs like Mujeres Asesinas.

When are we getting that one back, anyway?
 

I love you Antolín, but ¡por favor! don't put flowers in MY bed. #1 they will stick to you in all the wrong places & #2 who the hell is going to clean this mess up? That said at least it's not the usual novela roses.

Variopinta
 

Variopinta, I agree with you completely about the flowers. Flowers do not belong in or on beds! You're just going to have to dump them all on the floor, and then you'll probably be stepping on mucky flowers the next morning until someone (WHO?) cleans the dead things up. Plus, what if they have bugs in them? Ew.
 

Funny about the flowers!

From the Antolin/Carolina wedding bed I was thinking - geez - poor Mexican novios. From TNs every single bride much expect flowers on the bed for the wedding night.

I guess it's just like the wedding industry in the US. They keep raising the bar and too many people fall into the spending trap trying to meet some kind of idealistic goal.

Audrey