Friday, August 03, 2012
Abismo de pasión, #101, Thursday 8/2/12: In which the writers vow to hold all plot developments until Sylvia gets back home
J’accuse.
Alfonsina insists it was Elisa who attacked her. To Damián, that is simply impossible. Gabino, lurking at the doorway, can’t believe his ears – or his luck: “Are you sure?” To the doubters, Alfie shoots back: “How could I invent something like that?” Florencia narrows her eyes. She knows how.
If there’s not a will, we’ll find a way.
Lucio agrees it would be unfair if tía Nutcase ended up with the quinta. Good thing she doesn’t know about Elisa’s account. They need to find out if Augusto left a will. If he didn’t, they’ll have to find a good lawyer.
[“Well duh” hisses someone in the beanie-optional area of the Patio.]
Doc in a box
Once again, Doc Tovar has taken refuge in the hotel but is tracked down by Begoña. In BegoñaLandia, protecting Enrique from Paloma and pushing Sabrina towards Paolo ‘the momzer’ Landucci make perfect sense. She is all aflutter about the dinner tonight at which Paolo is to ask for Sabrina’s hand (la pedida de feto ... er ... I mean mano
His hyperactivity is harnessed for good
Gael can’t stand by idly and let Padre Lupe be transferred to a parish far away. He wants to start a petition drive. Lucio is sympathetic though he knows Lupe won’t like the idea.
Casa Castigo, Nerve Center of La Ermita
Dolores fills Elisa in on the assault on Alfie.
Paloma comes by and Elisa tells her about Lupe. Elisa wants both of them to catch up with Gael. No thanks, says Paloma. She’s trying to get past her obsession with him and it would be better to keep her distance.
Dolores reminds the Killer Orange that she. Lolita, is no longer her servant. If Citrus is hungry, she can cook. And as for her pigsty (chiquero) of a room -- well, it’s her problem.
The Cranky Oracle and the Unemployed Engineer
Ramona thinks Enrique comes around a little too often for someone who’s “just friends” with her nieta. Yes, he can wait for Paloma. But outside. And not too long! Before he steps out, Enrique extends an invitation to Ramona and Paloma to attend the “pedida” at the Tovar house tonight.
Gael and Elisa finally connect, though not the way he would like. He explains how he’s fighting Lupe’s transfer. If Lupe does leave, says Elisa, Gael would be out of a home. In that case, he’d be welcome to stay at the Carminatorium. But just friends. No benefits. Capeesh?
Begoña’s BFF Carmina assures her that Enrique is just toying with Paloma. The Bumble agrees to help Citrus find a lawyer to keep that devious Elisa from putting the helpless widow out on the street.
Paloma finds Enrique waiting for her at the cenote. He invites her to the “pedida” and then admits sheepishly that he’s really doing so to irritate his mother.
The Blue House of Shame and Incredulity
Gabino explains to Curls why Alfie is blaming Elisa: she hates her so much, she’d do anything to harm her. But Curls should watch out – Alfie won’t denounce her to the cops but she might try something privately.
Back in town, Maru agrees to help Lucio collect signatures for Lupe. She invites him in for coffee and they chat. She tells him how Braulio got canned; both assume it was Gab’s doing and that Dam will fix things now that he’s back.
Maru is convinced that Gab has always had the hots for Alfie and that Alfie, well aware of this, has used his feelings to manipulate him. Lucio is skeptical. He repeats the dogma that Rosendo was Alfie’s only love. “Hay amores que marcan a uno para siempre” he says nostalgically. “Like yours and doña Blanca’s” says Maru with resignation.
[On the Patio, they shift uneasily at Lucio’s table – that Alfie loved Rosendo doesn’t mean she hasn’t sensed and used Gabino’s feeling for her. Will the horses stand all alone on the “not stoopid” list? Who will take care of them?]
A person’s feelings could get hurt.
When Flor asks Dam what’s wrong, he snaps “¿Eres tonta o te haces?” (Are you an idiot or are you just acting like one?)
When Flor says it’s not her fault that Elisa tried to kill his mother, he tells her to shut up – Elisa couldn’t do such a thing. So does that mean his ma is lying? Well, she hates Elisa so much ....
Flor tries to steer the conversation away from her rival. “Have you told your mother we got married por lo civil?” No he hasn’t. He prefers to wait until she’s calmer. But one thing is sure – he’s not leaving her alone when there is someone out there who means to do her harm. Pout pout goes Flor. Snark snark goes Dam. Lying, Pregnancy-Faking Gold-Digging Flor, left alone, sighs and laments: “Como siempre, yo pago los platos rotos por culpa de Elisa.” (As usual, I sweep up after the elephants in E’s parade.)
Someone is cleaning house at Casa Castigo
The tía is in a frenzy, throwing Augusto’s clothes in a heap. She threatens to attack Estefanía’s room next. She and Elisa go nose to nose, exchange insults and end with Elisa proposing that for now, they divide the house so they don’t have to see each other.
Elisa has just scooped up an armful of Augusto’s things when the bell sounds. Dolores offers to take the stuff to Estefanía’s room while Elisa goes to the door.
ALL TOGETHER NOW: ¡Ay, no puede ser! ¿Qué haces aquí? ¿Qué quieres?
Yes, it’s Florencia Landucci de Arango who has come to rub Elisa’s nose in it – she and Elisa’s brother are married!
Now, as Dolores watches disapprovingly, Elisa transforms into the Jezebel that the likes of Begoña have always believed her to be:
“You feel very sure of yourself” she begins. And then adds with an imperfect subjunctive flourish of bitchiness: “Si yo quisiera, yo te lo quitaría todo, Florencia!” (If I wanted to [but I don’t], I'd take it all away from you, Flor!)
“¡Damián y yo no somos hermanos, Florencia!” (We’re not brother and sister) Flor’s tears undermine her show of bravado when she tells Elisa that it doesn’t matter because it’s too late. Dam is her husband and the father of her non-existent child.
Elisa isn’t finished though. She is cool and dry-eyed, jaunty even, hand on hip: “You think that’s going to stop me? If I were you, I’d be worried.”
“En La Ermita las Bouvier tenemos la fama de ser de lo peor – y nadie dudaría que yo soy capaz de robarme hasta un hombre casado.” (In La E, we Bouviers are known as the worst – and no one would doubt that I’m capable of stealing even a married man.) “Just ask your suegrita about the Bouvier women.”
Flor makes furious threatening noises and leaves. Dolores shakes her head sadly: “You shouldn’t have said that, Elisa.” Elisa admits she was trying to make Flor suffer a little. She’s married to Damián – why did she have to come there to torture her? Why?
La Ermita, a public bench
Paloma and Enrique are laughing and kidding around. Then Paloma catches sight of Gael in the street, collecting signatures. Impulsively, she pulls Enrique towards her and kisses him. Convincingly and indicatively. Gael, apparently unimpressed, approaches them and asks them to sign his petition.
Braulio has come to see Dolores at Casa Castigo. He learns of Dam’s hasty marriage (he hopes Dam doesn’t live to regret it). And he tells her how much Vicente’s rejection hurts him.
She has a favor to ask – she wants to send Horacio some clothes but doesn’t want to see him personally. Braulio agrees to deliver them and also to let him know that the divorce and annulment are underway.
Before leaving, Braulio tells Lolita he was hurt by what she said to him in church – it made him feel she had stopped loving him.
[Murmurs on the Patio ... what did she say? anybody remember? Sara whispers: "Braulio was lamenting the fact that at the church, Lolita told him she no longer loved him." Ah! Gracias, profe!]
Paloma is depressed and demoralized. And Ramona isn’t helping. She tells her nieta that Enrique isn’t for her; Paloma will never love him; and she’ll never be able to get over Gael. Paloma fumes that everything her abuela says is negative and she is nicer to everyone else than she is to her own granddaughter.
Dolores literally pushes Elisa towards the office where Dam is waiting to see her at Casa Castigo. She tries to shoo him out but he closes the door firmly and then says conditionally, imperfectly and subjunctively: “No estaría aquí si no fuera importante lo que tengo que hablar contigo.” (I wouldn’t be here if what I have to discuss with you were not so important.)
“My mother says someone tried to kill her.”
“She says it was a woman.”
“Who?”
“It’s too ridiculous to say it ...”
“But that’s why you’re here, right? So who?”
“My mother thinks you’re the person who attacked her!”
Elisa goes Carmina-eyed!
Avances: ¡Una acusación! ¡La venganza! ¡La duda! ¡Golpes! ¡El cheque!
Labels: abismo
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Be still my heart: TWO NovelaMaven recaps in one week.
This is recapping gold:
Will the horses stand all alone on the “not stoopid” list? Who will take care of them?
PS: Braulio was lamenting the fact that at the church, Lolita told him she no longer loved him.
This is recapping gold:
Will the horses stand all alone on the “not stoopid” list? Who will take care of them?
PS: Braulio was lamenting the fact that at the church, Lolita told him she no longer loved him.
"Lolita told him she no longer loved him."
Nooooo! Really? But she was just saying that, right?
Thank you, dear Sara, but shouldn't you be asleep by now? Or maybe you're just waking up to go running or something? (Don't answer that.)
¡Hasta mañana!
Nooooo! Really? But she was just saying that, right?
Thank you, dear Sara, but shouldn't you be asleep by now? Or maybe you're just waking up to go running or something? (Don't answer that.)
¡Hasta mañana!
Oh,Maven, my Maven:
Such pleasure! Two of your recaps in a week! If I was not such a hedonistic dog I would have offered to take tonight's recap off your capable hands. But then I could not have enjoyed a two-fer week of romps through grammatically correct and snarky Maven recaps.
Another outstanding offering, cara Maven, again outpacing the epi by a mile. As to the horses, I will gladly coverse with, exercise and feed the fine beasties. They will have alfalfa, oats and water just off the patio if you want to come by and say " Hola". They also have some pretty mean rhyming Limericks about Carmina if you get them going a little bit...
Thanks again, NM, for another fab recap.
EJ
Such pleasure! Two of your recaps in a week! If I was not such a hedonistic dog I would have offered to take tonight's recap off your capable hands. But then I could not have enjoyed a two-fer week of romps through grammatically correct and snarky Maven recaps.
Another outstanding offering, cara Maven, again outpacing the epi by a mile. As to the horses, I will gladly coverse with, exercise and feed the fine beasties. They will have alfalfa, oats and water just off the patio if you want to come by and say " Hola". They also have some pretty mean rhyming Limericks about Carmina if you get them going a little bit...
Thanks again, NM, for another fab recap.
EJ
"But she was just saying that, right?"
---
I should hope so!!
I would love to say I am up doing something awesome, but I'm just knitting a sock.
I'm going to go ahead and admit that I loved Elisa's spunk and I loved that shes making Flor think twice, but she is playing a very dangerous game.
Palquique still looks better to me than Gaeloma. And QTH? is Ramona's problem? She said Quique wasn't the guy for Pal, either!! So can this woman tell the future or not??
---
I should hope so!!
I would love to say I am up doing something awesome, but I'm just knitting a sock.
I'm going to go ahead and admit that I loved Elisa's spunk and I loved that shes making Flor think twice, but she is playing a very dangerous game.
Palquique still looks better to me than Gaeloma. And QTH? is Ramona's problem? She said Quique wasn't the guy for Pal, either!! So can this woman tell the future or not??
They also have some pretty mean rhyming Limericks about Carmina if you get them going a little bit...
----
I would love to hear them!
I'm glad the horses are in good hands :-)
----
I would love to hear them!
I'm glad the horses are in good hands :-)
My dear EJ,
You are, as always, far kinder to me than I deserve. But I am intrigued by the horses and their limericks. This may open a whole new vista for the Pitters. And naturally, I am relieved that the horses will be lovingly attended.
Sara,
I was also wondering about Ramona tonight. I had always believed her to be a Cassandra-like figure who was condemned to know and speak the truth and have no one believe her. But she is looking more and more like she has "issues". I don't like my oracles to have "issues'. "Oracular" and "neurotic trauma" do not compute. Not for this maven anyway.
I did love Elisa in her scene with that spoiled brat Flor. (Maybe I just liked it so much because Elisa wasn't crying.?)
You are, as always, far kinder to me than I deserve. But I am intrigued by the horses and their limericks. This may open a whole new vista for the Pitters. And naturally, I am relieved that the horses will be lovingly attended.
Sara,
I was also wondering about Ramona tonight. I had always believed her to be a Cassandra-like figure who was condemned to know and speak the truth and have no one believe her. But she is looking more and more like she has "issues". I don't like my oracles to have "issues'. "Oracular" and "neurotic trauma" do not compute. Not for this maven anyway.
I did love Elisa in her scene with that spoiled brat Flor. (Maybe I just liked it so much because Elisa wasn't crying.?)
Good stuff, Novela Maven, and I agree that Elisa is living dangerously.
If Alfonsina goes to the law with her accusation you know that the Rotten Orange will gladly help her. Which should earn her a really incredible finish. Can Ramona get a sea monster for the cenote to swallow her?
I wonder whether Ramona has issues, too. She may be trying to protect Paloma in ways she couldn't protect her daughter back in the day, but there comes a point where that has to stop.
If Alfonsina goes to the law with her accusation you know that the Rotten Orange will gladly help her. Which should earn her a really incredible finish. Can Ramona get a sea monster for the cenote to swallow her?
I wonder whether Ramona has issues, too. She may be trying to protect Paloma in ways she couldn't protect her daughter back in the day, but there comes a point where that has to stop.
Woohoo, another wonderful NM recap!! Better than the episode too.
I found myself slightly pithed at most of our denizens last night, even some of the good guys.
How long has Asshat been gone and they only now they are wondering if there's a will? Where's my beanie!
Elisa...gees. Be the bigger person. Why did she have to play that card with Flo? I know,l I know, she's hurt, but everyone in that town has a big mouth...
Paloma is doing exactly what she accuses Gael of doing to her. So not cool using QuiQui like that. At least he admitted he wanted to yank his mother's chain...that poor guy can't cut a break in the lurrvvv department.
As for Ramona, I agree. Now I'm wondering if she is going to just dislike everyone Pal shows an interest in to make sure she never goes thru what she had done with her daughter. Is she trying to say that Pal won't have anyone to love? WTH?
I want to see Carmina clean...oh please, and try to cook. We need some humor in this thing.
This TN needs to get some real plot movements going.
I found myself slightly pithed at most of our denizens last night, even some of the good guys.
How long has Asshat been gone and they only now they are wondering if there's a will? Where's my beanie!
Elisa...gees. Be the bigger person. Why did she have to play that card with Flo? I know,l I know, she's hurt, but everyone in that town has a big mouth...
Paloma is doing exactly what she accuses Gael of doing to her. So not cool using QuiQui like that. At least he admitted he wanted to yank his mother's chain...that poor guy can't cut a break in the lurrvvv department.
As for Ramona, I agree. Now I'm wondering if she is going to just dislike everyone Pal shows an interest in to make sure she never goes thru what she had done with her daughter. Is she trying to say that Pal won't have anyone to love? WTH?
I want to see Carmina clean...oh please, and try to cook. We need some humor in this thing.
This TN needs to get some real plot movements going.
Maven, thou art magnificent. Great recap! Thanks much! :)
I much prefer Elisa going toe to toe with the town beeches even if it means she has to fib a little. Give 'em what for, honey. They're going to talk about you and make up sh!t anyway, so you might as well have fun with it and piss them off. Loved the way you handled Princess Ho and Killer Ho. Keep this new backbone, because there truly is no one to help you now, not even Dam Fine, because he's a Dam Fool.
Speaking of... somebody needs to take Dam Fool aside for a sec and explain to him that "Love The One You're With" really is just a song, not a career choice. You think Elisa is your sister and can't have her, so you marry a chick who gives you dry heaves practically five minutes later? You could have just stayed drunk until you felt better. NOW you are beyond repair. Dude.
Ramona the Good Witch seemed herself up until Augie perished and she thought she'd caused it. She's seemed out of sorts since then (the floating Kenia had her spooked too)... and I'm hoping it's just temporary...
I wish PalQuique would get it together. I like them.
Gaww, Flo Ho makes me want to hurl as to look at her. I suggest she put her Ace bandages away and start wearing clothes that will flatter the fake baby bump to come. And she'd BETTER start taking advantage of Dam Fool's indifference, else he get all amorous and be feeling her fake baby bump up in the night. Ruh-roh.
Yeah, it was way too early for Fina the Bad Witch to be done in, but I couldn't help wishing for it anyway. That heifer is magnificent indeed in her best moments, but gets to my stomach like a bad burrito. This latest "Elisa tried to kill me" thing has me wanting to choke her out, but for the fact that she probably won't get anywhere with it... oh, wait, one word from Killer Ho and The Church is transferring Loopy, and this IS NovelaLand... *gulp*
Maven said: Will the horses stand all alone on the “not stoopid” list? ROFLMAO! ahahaha
I much prefer Elisa going toe to toe with the town beeches even if it means she has to fib a little. Give 'em what for, honey. They're going to talk about you and make up sh!t anyway, so you might as well have fun with it and piss them off. Loved the way you handled Princess Ho and Killer Ho. Keep this new backbone, because there truly is no one to help you now, not even Dam Fine, because he's a Dam Fool.
Speaking of... somebody needs to take Dam Fool aside for a sec and explain to him that "Love The One You're With" really is just a song, not a career choice. You think Elisa is your sister and can't have her, so you marry a chick who gives you dry heaves practically five minutes later? You could have just stayed drunk until you felt better. NOW you are beyond repair. Dude.
Ramona the Good Witch seemed herself up until Augie perished and she thought she'd caused it. She's seemed out of sorts since then (the floating Kenia had her spooked too)... and I'm hoping it's just temporary...
I wish PalQuique would get it together. I like them.
Gaww, Flo Ho makes me want to hurl as to look at her. I suggest she put her Ace bandages away and start wearing clothes that will flatter the fake baby bump to come. And she'd BETTER start taking advantage of Dam Fool's indifference, else he get all amorous and be feeling her fake baby bump up in the night. Ruh-roh.
Yeah, it was way too early for Fina the Bad Witch to be done in, but I couldn't help wishing for it anyway. That heifer is magnificent indeed in her best moments, but gets to my stomach like a bad burrito. This latest "Elisa tried to kill me" thing has me wanting to choke her out, but for the fact that she probably won't get anywhere with it... oh, wait, one word from Killer Ho and The Church is transferring Loopy, and this IS NovelaLand... *gulp*
Maven said: Will the horses stand all alone on the “not stoopid” list? ROFLMAO! ahahaha
NovelaMaven- oh my..: what a nice surprise this a.m. to see a second NM offering! The title is a hoot & so very spot ON. Yet another filler plot.
Elisa dividing the house in half caused a mini telenovela episode to play out in my head. Viz: Elisa with chain saw in hand in the Passion Pit version "Diary of a mad orange woman".
Flo smugging it up to Elisa about being married to Dam was uncalled-for and so. eighth. grade. Gah.
If LaErmita had a convent nearby, there is no doubt Ramona would have Paloma parked there ~hasta siempre~.
Doris on the iPhone.
Elisa dividing the house in half caused a mini telenovela episode to play out in my head. Viz: Elisa with chain saw in hand in the Passion Pit version "Diary of a mad orange woman".
Flo smugging it up to Elisa about being married to Dam was uncalled-for and so. eighth. grade. Gah.
If LaErmita had a convent nearby, there is no doubt Ramona would have Paloma parked there ~hasta siempre~.
Doris on the iPhone.
Permalink posted by 
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 7:14:00 AM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 7:14:00 AM EDT
Absolutely loved every single morsel of it, but I'll highlight my faves.
"If there's not a will we'll find a way."
"Doc in a Box."
"...Nerve Center of la Ermita"
"Cranky Oracle" (you can say that again!)
"Gael and Elisa finally connect though not the way he would like"
"Carneratorium"
"But just as friends, no benefits"
"AND THEN ADDS WITH AN IMPERFECT SUBJUNCTIVE OF BITCHINESS.....
"CONDITIONALY, IMPERFECTLY AND SUBJUNCTIVELY..."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh Lord, this woman's going to teach me some grammar one way or the other! Thank you Jesus.
You certainly had your way with the filler episode, NM. I really think you should be writing a column, a widely-read column!, in some witty newspaper. Perhaps you are, under another name. Who knows? Anyway you certainly brightened up my morning (after having mowed and edged the lawn in 92 degree weather and feeling every bit as cranky as Ramona!)
PS "like a bad burrito"!...Yikes...good to have you back Ms. Stephe
"If there's not a will we'll find a way."
"Doc in a Box."
"...Nerve Center of la Ermita"
"Cranky Oracle" (you can say that again!)
"Gael and Elisa finally connect though not the way he would like"
"Carneratorium"
"But just as friends, no benefits"
"AND THEN ADDS WITH AN IMPERFECT SUBJUNCTIVE OF BITCHINESS.....
"CONDITIONALY, IMPERFECTLY AND SUBJUNCTIVELY..."!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh Lord, this woman's going to teach me some grammar one way or the other! Thank you Jesus.
You certainly had your way with the filler episode, NM. I really think you should be writing a column, a widely-read column!, in some witty newspaper. Perhaps you are, under another name. Who knows? Anyway you certainly brightened up my morning (after having mowed and edged the lawn in 92 degree weather and feeling every bit as cranky as Ramona!)
PS "like a bad burrito"!...Yikes...good to have you back Ms. Stephe
Good morning, La Ermita! Loved the new coinages: BegoñaLandia, Carmina-eyed, and especially "beanie-optional area of the Patio..." But the big hit for today is the translation-for-meaning "As usual, I sweep up after the elephants in E’s parade." So true, and a wonderful image.
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 8:29:00 AM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 8:29:00 AM EDT
So did Ramona actually say that Pal wouldn't end up with Gael? Or just that it would get a whole lot worse before it got better? She's running out of options.
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 8:30:00 AM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 8:30:00 AM EDT
Elna June:
If I could suggest a change in your original post ("If I was not such a hedonistic dog, I would have offered..."). I think you should have said: "If I WERE not (contrary-to-fact)such a hedonistic dog, I would have...".
From what I've read, you seem to be a great humanitarian rather than a hedonistic dog.
Conditionally, imperfectly and subjunctively,
Sondie
If I could suggest a change in your original post ("If I was not such a hedonistic dog, I would have offered..."). I think you should have said: "If I WERE not (contrary-to-fact)such a hedonistic dog, I would have...".
From what I've read, you seem to be a great humanitarian rather than a hedonistic dog.
Conditionally, imperfectly and subjunctively,
Sondie
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 9:02:00 AM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 9:02:00 AM EDT
I appreciate the grammar notes, since improving my Spanish auditory comprehension is what led me to watch this telenovela. Of course (even though I deny it vehemently to anyone notices my strange viewing habits) I am now hooked. I have been studying the subjunctive (yes I am a glutton for pain", and I thank you for pointing out those instances that involve use of the imperfect subjunctive with the conditional tense in a contrary to fact "si" clause. In fact I learned something new the other day when Gabino used the imperfect subjunctive in both clauses yesterday and nixed the conditional altogether. Apparently this is common usage in Mexico. Keep the grammar usage comments coming.....I love it.
Steve
El aficionado secreto de telenovelas
Steve
El aficionado secreto de telenovelas
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 10:04:00 AM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 10:04:00 AM EDT
Pardon the typeos. I neglected to preview before publishing.
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 10:07:00 AM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 10:07:00 AM EDT
I have noticed in the last few days several uses of the subjunctive preceded by "no" -- along the lines of, "hasta que no venga" or "hasta que no pague." The "no" doesn't seem to carry meaning here and just functions as some kind of grammatical placeholder. Is that a common construction, aficionados? It seems vaguely familiar to me, but I don't specifically remember learning it.
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 10:09:00 AM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 10:09:00 AM EDT
That heifer is magnificent indeed in her best moments, but gets to my stomach like a bad burrito.
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Love this comment!!!
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Love this comment!!!
Blue Lass: good discussion of "hasta que no venga" here - hasta que no venga - WordReference Forums
From that forum:
" No lo haremos hasta que llegue
No lo haremos hasta que no llegue
The two sentences mean exactly the same. and will be understood in the same way by native speakers. The no in the second sentence is called 'no expletivo' . According to the DPD, it's correct but unnecessary."
Note that "hasta que" can be translated as both "until", and "as long as" which in English would require a negative in one case versus the other. Example: until he comes vs. as long as he doesn't come.
From that forum:
" No lo haremos hasta que llegue
No lo haremos hasta que no llegue
The two sentences mean exactly the same. and will be understood in the same way by native speakers. The no in the second sentence is called 'no expletivo' . According to the DPD, it's correct but unnecessary."
Note that "hasta que" can be translated as both "until", and "as long as" which in English would require a negative in one case versus the other. Example: until he comes vs. as long as he doesn't come.
Blues Lass,
Could you give some examples of a complete sentence in which "hasta que no..." is used? It's clear that "hasta que" is a subjunctive trigger. I am just not sure of the meaning because of lack of context. It would make sense to me to use the sub if for example one was trying to say... Just wait until he doesn't pay, or We'll see if he doesn't come. Could these be the type of phrases that you are referring to?
Steve
Could you give some examples of a complete sentence in which "hasta que no..." is used? It's clear that "hasta que" is a subjunctive trigger. I am just not sure of the meaning because of lack of context. It would make sense to me to use the sub if for example one was trying to say... Just wait until he doesn't pay, or We'll see if he doesn't come. Could these be the type of phrases that you are referring to?
Steve
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 10:32:00 AM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 10:32:00 AM EDT
How can Pal resist all those cheek caresses and tender brushing away of her stray hairs that Quique was giving last night? Stupid girl. I think Romoma is right that a) she will never be happy with Gael because he just can't get over Elisa, and b) Pal will never be happy with Quique because she can't get over Gael. I just wish these becauses were ifs. Then there would actually be hope. Ramona is predicting the most hopeless case scenarios. Advice isn't helpful if there's never any hope associated with it.
Thanks, Audrey! That explains why it sounded right to me, but I still don't say it myself. (Although I could -- it has a nice little flourish to it.)
Steve, all instances were cases in which the speaker clearly expected the thing to happen, which is why I was startled. But I think I get it now.
Steve, all instances were cases in which the speaker clearly expected the thing to happen, which is why I was startled. But I think I get it now.
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 10:37:00 AM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 10:37:00 AM EDT
I have to confess myself also a language geek - as evidenced by the above post. So, Novelamaven - please go right ahead with your gleeful enjoyment of two clause sentences and showing off great examples of conditional and subjunctive usage.
One of the things I have enjoyed most with the novelas is the extensive usage of the subjunctive form as well as really all verb tenses. At this point, (after watching TNs nightly for a couple of years), I understand all these forms without even thinking it.
I'm more of a vocabularly geek myself these days, in particular with colloquial usage in verb phrases and conjunctive phrases, as evidenced by my vocab lists.
One of the things I have enjoyed most with the novelas is the extensive usage of the subjunctive form as well as really all verb tenses. At this point, (after watching TNs nightly for a couple of years), I understand all these forms without even thinking it.
I'm more of a vocabularly geek myself these days, in particular with colloquial usage in verb phrases and conjunctive phrases, as evidenced by my vocab lists.
Welcome Steve and thanks for joining in about the grammar discussions. I started watching telenovelas to supplement those "teach yourself Spanish in weeks" books I was buying, and am now sheepishly addicted as well. I've never watched soap operas in English so I can still delude myself that it's all about language learning and homework with me! But nobody's buying that idea in my house!
Well it's comforting to be among fellow Spanish grammar geeks. I also feel that my comprehension is improving vastly from when I first began watching although I still can't follow most of what mushmouth Carmina says. I also have trouble with Gabino and rapid-fire Gael. The rest of the cast don't pose much of a problem. Now to get back to the story, I wonder how many times Dam and Elisa will reunite only to break up again before the finally live happily ever after. I also wonder who else will die before the end of the program. I certainly hope to watch the demise of TangelHo, but who knows.
Steve
Steve
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 11:54:00 AM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 11:54:00 AM EDT
Shall we start a death list Steve? Let's see, who has died already?
-Rosendo (accident)
-Stefie (accident)
-Blanca (Hoarcio/Gab)
-Kenia (Carmina)
-Agusto (Carmina)
-The Widow Beltran (Gab)
Anyone else?
Who should/might/is likely to die?
-Ingrid
-Carmina
-Gabino
-Horacio (I thought his chances of dying were higher when he was free, but in prison he's safer)
-Tonia (inconvenient)
-Rosendo (accident)
-Stefie (accident)
-Blanca (Hoarcio/Gab)
-Kenia (Carmina)
-Agusto (Carmina)
-The Widow Beltran (Gab)
Anyone else?
Who should/might/is likely to die?
-Ingrid
-Carmina
-Gabino
-Horacio (I thought his chances of dying were higher when he was free, but in prison he's safer)
-Tonia (inconvenient)
What a pleasure to come back to this flurry of smart and gracious comments, amigos!
Grammar first, natch --
"I have noticed in the last few days several uses of the subjunctive preceded by "no" -- along the lines of, "hasta que no venga" or "hasta que no pague."
My heart be still, Blue Lass for questionning this usage and adding it to the things to listen for when the actual CONTENT becomes unbearable.
Thanks so much for checking it out of the WordReference forum, Audrey. Great info!
I agree that vocab is the key. You can learn the important grammar in a relatively short time -- and then spend the rest of your life trying to catch up to the ability of any 12-year-old native speaker to label what he sees and knows.
Steve, I'll echo JudyB in welcoming you here. Oh man, are these novelas ever addictive ... but sometimes we do manage to learn a thing or two along the way.
I hope you'll stop by often, now that you know the way.
As for "hasta no que" --
BL, you and Sara may remember I mentioned "A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish" in an El Tal thread.
In section 23.4.4(d) on p.343 (No. I'm not kidding. Not about grammar. Well, not right now anyway.) there is a discussion of the "redundant NO" which is "optional after hasta que in negative sentences. Here are their examples:
Adolfito, hasta que no te tomes el bocadillo no te vas a jugar. (You're not going out to play until you finish your sandwich.)
No cobrarás hasta que (no) encuentre trabajo. (You won't get the money until he/she finds work.)
No era noticia hasta que no la publicaba ABC. (It wasn't news until ABC published it.)
nb: There's no subjunctive here because ABC DID publish it -- it's not a hypothetical.
Grammar first, natch --
"I have noticed in the last few days several uses of the subjunctive preceded by "no" -- along the lines of, "hasta que no venga" or "hasta que no pague."
My heart be still, Blue Lass for questionning this usage and adding it to the things to listen for when the actual CONTENT becomes unbearable.
Thanks so much for checking it out of the WordReference forum, Audrey. Great info!
I agree that vocab is the key. You can learn the important grammar in a relatively short time -- and then spend the rest of your life trying to catch up to the ability of any 12-year-old native speaker to label what he sees and knows.
Steve, I'll echo JudyB in welcoming you here. Oh man, are these novelas ever addictive ... but sometimes we do manage to learn a thing or two along the way.
I hope you'll stop by often, now that you know the way.
As for "hasta no que" --
BL, you and Sara may remember I mentioned "A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish" in an El Tal thread.
In section 23.4.4(d) on p.343 (No. I'm not kidding. Not about grammar. Well, not right now anyway.) there is a discussion of the "redundant NO" which is "optional after hasta que in negative sentences. Here are their examples:
Adolfito, hasta que no te tomes el bocadillo no te vas a jugar. (You're not going out to play until you finish your sandwich.)
No cobrarás hasta que (no) encuentre trabajo. (You won't get the money until he/she finds work.)
No era noticia hasta que no la publicaba ABC. (It wasn't news until ABC published it.)
nb: There's no subjunctive here because ABC DID publish it -- it's not a hypothetical.
Judy, I totally buy the TN as a language and culture lab. There's no way I could watch if I weren't learning something.
When I lived in California, I got addicted to a Korean soap. I was fascinated by the food, the dress, the family interactions, the work culture, everything. Fortunately, it was captioned in English -- and still after 6 months I had only learned three words: Mom, Dad, and Sweetie.
When I lived in California, I got addicted to a Korean soap. I was fascinated by the food, the dress, the family interactions, the work culture, everything. Fortunately, it was captioned in English -- and still after 6 months I had only learned three words: Mom, Dad, and Sweetie.
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 12:14:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 12:14:00 PM EDT
Blue Lass..well Mom, Dad and Sweetie is an excellent start! I'm sure with that an some expressive body language, you'd be just fine if plopped down in Korea for a visit.
Novela Maven...who are the authors? Just want to make sure I order the right Modern Grammar. (can I order a good dose of your IQ also?)
Novela Maven...who are the authors? Just want to make sure I order the right Modern Grammar. (can I order a good dose of your IQ also?)
I remember and purchased the grammar book by Mr Butt (poor man.) I am about to grab it now and look at the sections you cited.
AWESOME, NM. I have a 5th-edition Butt (at least everyone says so), and my "redundant no" is in 23.2.4 on pp. 337-8.
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 12:38:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 12:38:00 PM EDT
I just learned something more: my Butt says you do not use the "redundant no" if the first part of the statement is positive, only if it's negative.
So for example, you can say, "No salimos hasta que no venga Gabino" but must say "Nos quedamos hasta que venga Gabino."
So for example, you can say, "No salimos hasta que no venga Gabino" but must say "Nos quedamos hasta que venga Gabino."
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 12:45:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 12:45:00 PM EDT
You should've seen me turning my office upside-down looking for the little devil. Couldn't find my Butt with both hands.
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 12:51:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 12:51:00 PM EDT
What can I say, Urban? I was much happier thinking of Ramona as a somewhat magical truth-teller. I really didn't want her scrambling in the much like the rest of us. Sigh.
Gracias, Daisynjay! Isn't it interesting, though, that by playing hard-to-get (even if she's not really PLAYING), Paloma is becoming increasingly desirable to Quique. Not politically correct, maybe, but ...
Thanks, Stephe! And what great advice for Dam:
"somebody needs to take Dam Fool aside for a sec and explain to him that "Love The One You're With" really is just a song, not a career choice."
Doris, Let's hope it's Elisa wielding that chainsaw and not a certain rotten piece of citrus. Hope this is a better day for you!
JudyB, you are much too generous. There are no publishers clamoring for my words, not under this name nor any other.
BTW, if I had just "mowed and edged the lawn in 92 degree weather" I think I'd be feeling more like Augusto than Ramona right about now. You are a woman of many strengths and talents!
Blue Lass, the beanie-optional area was set up a few days ago for those of us who have decided to swallow it all whole. If the writers write it, we believe it. And as Emilia pointed out, no more hat hair.
I understood Ramona to say that Paloma would never be able to "sacar" Gael from her heart. She didn't really say how she'd end up but the implication was: alone and pining after Gael.
I am SO glad you enjoyed the elephants. The image cheered me as I composed the retelling of this cheerless story.
Gracias, Daisynjay! Isn't it interesting, though, that by playing hard-to-get (even if she's not really PLAYING), Paloma is becoming increasingly desirable to Quique. Not politically correct, maybe, but ...
Thanks, Stephe! And what great advice for Dam:
"somebody needs to take Dam Fool aside for a sec and explain to him that "Love The One You're With" really is just a song, not a career choice."
Doris, Let's hope it's Elisa wielding that chainsaw and not a certain rotten piece of citrus. Hope this is a better day for you!
JudyB, you are much too generous. There are no publishers clamoring for my words, not under this name nor any other.
BTW, if I had just "mowed and edged the lawn in 92 degree weather" I think I'd be feeling more like Augusto than Ramona right about now. You are a woman of many strengths and talents!
Blue Lass, the beanie-optional area was set up a few days ago for those of us who have decided to swallow it all whole. If the writers write it, we believe it. And as Emilia pointed out, no more hat hair.
I understood Ramona to say that Paloma would never be able to "sacar" Gael from her heart. She didn't really say how she'd end up but the implication was: alone and pining after Gael.
I am SO glad you enjoyed the elephants. The image cheered me as I composed the retelling of this cheerless story.
Vivi, I like your words to live by:
Advice isn't helpful if there's never any hope associated with it.
That's why a decent doc never gives a patient bad news without first having a treatment plan lined up: Here's the problem and here's what we're going to do -- First X, then Y, then Z ...
Ramona just spits out the bad news and expects the "patient" to hang tough.
[Oh grandmother, what a big mouth you have!]
Advice isn't helpful if there's never any hope associated with it.
That's why a decent doc never gives a patient bad news without first having a treatment plan lined up: Here's the problem and here's what we're going to do -- First X, then Y, then Z ...
Ramona just spits out the bad news and expects the "patient" to hang tough.
[Oh grandmother, what a big mouth you have!]
JudyB, Here's the complete citation for the book. I think it's readily available on amazon.
[Everyone -- This is not a primer for learning Spanish. It is a REFERENCE book for looking up stuff like "hasta que no" that most people don't care about. I WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE!!! You're on your own here, children!]
Title: A new reference grammar of modern Spanish
Authors: Butt and Benjamin
Publisher: McGraw-Hill
The paperback 4th edition came out in 2004.
I don't know the year of the 5th edition that the Back Row Bad Girls have.
And frankly, I have no trouble at all finding my Butt when I need it.
[Everyone -- This is not a primer for learning Spanish. It is a REFERENCE book for looking up stuff like "hasta que no" that most people don't care about. I WILL NOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE!!! You're on your own here, children!]
Title: A new reference grammar of modern Spanish
Authors: Butt and Benjamin
Publisher: McGraw-Hill
The paperback 4th edition came out in 2004.
I don't know the year of the 5th edition that the Back Row Bad Girls have.
And frankly, I have no trouble at all finding my Butt when I need it.
Thanks NM for a great recap and the grammar tutorial. Spanish verbs and all their wonderful tenses are my downfall, so the 'conditional, imperfect and subjunctive' discussions really help.
Does anyone else think it's ironic that our pretty little Florencia is a toxic, barren weed? Loved Elisa's taunting Flo-ho last night, but I fear it's going to come back and bite her on the butt.
Alfie and Carmeanie are going to be all over Elisa after Elisa gives Alfie that check. It will only confirm that Gabs gave Asgusto the money for the land. And what will Dam Stoopid do at that point?
UA, loved the visual of Ramona conjuring up a sea monster in the cenote! Karma will be the Orange-ho face down in the cenote.
Anya
Does anyone else think it's ironic that our pretty little Florencia is a toxic, barren weed? Loved Elisa's taunting Flo-ho last night, but I fear it's going to come back and bite her on the butt.
Alfie and Carmeanie are going to be all over Elisa after Elisa gives Alfie that check. It will only confirm that Gabs gave Asgusto the money for the land. And what will Dam Stoopid do at that point?
UA, loved the visual of Ramona conjuring up a sea monster in the cenote! Karma will be the Orange-ho face down in the cenote.
Anya
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 1:29:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 1:29:00 PM EDT
Sondie:
How good of you to offer this correction! Thank you, and of course you are absolutely right. I should have said 'were' and not 'was'.
I receive your compliment with a (blushing) smile, however I did sit by watching the Olympics while my compatriot NM did TWO recaps in one week. Smile.
So nice to hear from you, Sondie. Do comment again1
EJ
How good of you to offer this correction! Thank you, and of course you are absolutely right. I should have said 'were' and not 'was'.
I receive your compliment with a (blushing) smile, however I did sit by watching the Olympics while my compatriot NM did TWO recaps in one week. Smile.
So nice to hear from you, Sondie. Do comment again1
EJ
Thanks for the details on "A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish."
I think I may have to get it. It's available on Amazon. The reviews seem good,and you can buy it new at $5.99 for the paperback version. Seems like a good deal, no IFS or BUTTS about it.
Sorry,
Steve
I think I may have to get it. It's available on Amazon. The reviews seem good,and you can buy it new at $5.99 for the paperback version. Seems like a good deal, no IFS or BUTTS about it.
Sorry,
Steve
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 1:38:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 1:38:00 PM EDT
Thanks, Anya! So glad all the grammar talk isn't a turn-off for you.
"Does anyone else think it's ironic that our pretty little Florencia is a toxic, barren weed?"
Oh, absolutely. These writers are in love with irony. Remember these are the same geniuses who decided to set up Horacio as a BUTCHER. On the SITE WHERE HE MURDERED BLANCA! They also have Doc's former amorio in Orange cozying up to his wife and giving her advice.
I'm gonna guess the next irony will be Alfie tasking Gabino with taking care of the Ingrid problem DEFINITIVELY. I kind of hope he does, too.
"Does anyone else think it's ironic that our pretty little Florencia is a toxic, barren weed?"
Oh, absolutely. These writers are in love with irony. Remember these are the same geniuses who decided to set up Horacio as a BUTCHER. On the SITE WHERE HE MURDERED BLANCA! They also have Doc's former amorio in Orange cozying up to his wife and giving her advice.
I'm gonna guess the next irony will be Alfie tasking Gabino with taking care of the Ingrid problem DEFINITIVELY. I kind of hope he does, too.
Steve, are you sure you're looking at the right book? I just checked and it says $26.73 (marked down from 39.95). It's a substantial book so the higher price makes sense.
Dear Elna June,
Surely you know that Sondie was just pulling your leg -- or at least the prettily pointed part of it we get to admire in your profile picture.
In informal English (and we're friends here, right?), we often get to choose between indicative and subjunctive. And many times we pick the indicative if only to avoid sounding as pedantic as NM.
P.S. Two recaps in a week is nothing compared to all the heavy lifting my fellow pitters did while I was away. Entonces ni lo menciones, ¿sí?
Surely you know that Sondie was just pulling your leg -- or at least the prettily pointed part of it we get to admire in your profile picture.
In informal English (and we're friends here, right?), we often get to choose between indicative and subjunctive. And many times we pick the indicative if only to avoid sounding as pedantic as NM.
P.S. Two recaps in a week is nothing compared to all the heavy lifting my fellow pitters did while I was away. Entonces ni lo menciones, ¿sí?
So glad I asked about the Grammar author so Sara and Blue could do their little tango. I love this line!
NovelaMaven,
You are right, but I also see it for 5.99 for the 2004 paperback edition.
If you click on the 5.99 in the box that lists format, it gives you the following:
KingsRidgeMedia
fulfillment by Amazon
I guess it sounds a little too good to be true. Maybe I should spring for the hardcover and later edition. The 5.99 sounds awfully good though.
Steve
You are right, but I also see it for 5.99 for the 2004 paperback edition.
If you click on the 5.99 in the box that lists format, it gives you the following:
KingsRidgeMedia
fulfillment by Amazon
I guess it sounds a little too good to be true. Maybe I should spring for the hardcover and later edition. The 5.99 sounds awfully good though.
Steve
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 2:03:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 2:03:00 PM EDT
Steve, that must be a used copy -- but a lo mejor it will be lightly used.
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 2:11:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 2:11:00 PM EDT
That's odd, Steve. I don't see it.
But remember that KingsRidge will add $4 for shipping so the true price is about $10 -- still a pretty good deal.
Check what it says about the condition of the book. Sometimes it's actually brand-new. Other times, it's heavily used and marked up with highlighters and some poor college student's blood, sweat and tears.
By the way, the new 5th edition for $26.73 IS in paperback.
Suerte!
But remember that KingsRidge will add $4 for shipping so the true price is about $10 -- still a pretty good deal.
Check what it says about the condition of the book. Sometimes it's actually brand-new. Other times, it's heavily used and marked up with highlighters and some poor college student's blood, sweat and tears.
By the way, the new 5th edition for $26.73 IS in paperback.
Suerte!
Abismo Death List:
Rosendo Arango --car accident
Estefania Castanon --car accident
Blanca Elizondo -- homicide (by Horacio on orders of Gabino)
Kenia Jaso --homicide by Carmina (bopped upside the head, drowning)
Augusto Castanon --homicide by Carmina
Other assaults:
Lucio, assaulted by Gabino
Edmundo, assaulted by Augusto
Damian & Florencia, horse tampering by Horacio
Carmina, assaulted by Augusto
Elisa, attempted rape by Paolo
Florencia & Paloma, assaulting each other
Begona, a stylistic slap of Sabrina
Ingrid, mauled by Gabino
Alfonsina, attempted murder by Ingrid & Gabino
Rosendo Arango --car accident
Estefania Castanon --car accident
Blanca Elizondo -- homicide (by Horacio on orders of Gabino)
Kenia Jaso --homicide by Carmina (bopped upside the head, drowning)
Augusto Castanon --homicide by Carmina
Other assaults:
Lucio, assaulted by Gabino
Edmundo, assaulted by Augusto
Damian & Florencia, horse tampering by Horacio
Carmina, assaulted by Augusto
Elisa, attempted rape by Paolo
Florencia & Paloma, assaulting each other
Begona, a stylistic slap of Sabrina
Ingrid, mauled by Gabino
Alfonsina, attempted murder by Ingrid & Gabino
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 2:21:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 2:21:00 PM EDT
All hail Anon207, supreme sovereign of the lists!!
I loved "stylistic slap" but was it Sabrina or Paloma.
I seem to remember a high scoring slap of Paloma.
I loved "stylistic slap" but was it Sabrina or Paloma.
I seem to remember a high scoring slap of Paloma.
I love Vivi's "lista de meurtos" that she assembled. Looks like the two arch evildoers Gab and Ho are neck and neck in their despicableness ratings. I think in the end they will get what they deserve. A fitting exit would be for both of them to say ADIOS while making lust in the blue love shack as it goes up in flames. Then again, maybe that is too terrible a fate even for them. We will see what the writers come up with.
If I were (subjunctive) un escritor de las telenovelas (which I am not - contrary to fact) that is the script I would pen. I think that the reason English speakers have difficulty with the Spanish subjucntive is that we are not to swift when using it in English. It is only apparent in certain verbs in a few instances and most people don't bother to use it correctly when it is required. I fear it will soon join the ranks of the Dodo, dinosaur and Etruscan. The English subunctive, not Spanish.
Steve
Steve
If I were (subjunctive) un escritor de las telenovelas (which I am not - contrary to fact) that is the script I would pen. I think that the reason English speakers have difficulty with the Spanish subjucntive is that we are not to swift when using it in English. It is only apparent in certain verbs in a few instances and most people don't bother to use it correctly when it is required. I fear it will soon join the ranks of the Dodo, dinosaur and Etruscan. The English subunctive, not Spanish.
Steve
Steve
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 2:36:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 2:36:00 PM EDT
NM:
May I rant on the subject on the recent confusing portrayal cranky Oracle, Ramona?
I used to see Ramona as being pretty true to the concept of the Delphic Oracle, who received her wisdom (at whatever price) from the shining beautiful god Apollo.
Ramona was the peasant healer who straddled two worlds—she led a good and blameless life raising a grandchild but she was a woman without a mate. She healed her community but lived apart from them. She made harmless love potions that worked and but had no love. She prophesied futures that were confusing but probably true. Ramon's mumblings sometimes sounded a bit like mumbo jumbo.According to report's surviving from antiquity so did the Delphic Oracle's.
But the AdP writers cannot leave well enough alone. Again. Now they have tacked on the Cassandra story to Ramona's character and personality. This is adding an entirely different archtype to an existing character, as you, NM point out.
You make malicious mischief yet again, writers, and I cry foul. Cassandra is the exact opposite of the Delphic Oracle and here is why.
Cassandra was the sister of Helen of Troy, and she was herself a great beauty. Like many who dared to catch the attention of the Gods, she was punished. After Apollo noticed her, he desired her and wanted her to be his consort, She was lovely, smart, well spoken, kind and engaging. Apollo, or his servants, the serpents, are said to have gifted her with gift of prophecy or knowing the future.
At first she agreed to be Apollo's lover, but then she dared to change her mind and said no to Apollo. For this, Apollo cursed her to always know (and speak) the future but to never be believed. In some versions of the story, she is also cursed with actual madness.
Now her story gets really ugly, First she is abducted and raped by Ajax. Then, we are told by Aeschylus, she is taken as concubine and prize of war by King Agamemnon back home to Greece where she is promptly murdered by his wife and her lover. No wonder she displayed signs of PTSD, as Ramona is now doing!
But such behavior beggars belief in Ramona. Ramona is a tough old bird. She long ago had to accept that telling the truth carries inherent risks and that she is not responsible for how others respond to what she must say. She tries to be kind, but there is dignity in being a truth sayer and sometimes the truth will out, as it did with Augusto.
Let us just leave one character relatively simple in her complexity, shall we? Can't we just leave Ramona alone?
EJ, on a soapbox this morning this fine day
May I rant on the subject on the recent confusing portrayal cranky Oracle, Ramona?
I used to see Ramona as being pretty true to the concept of the Delphic Oracle, who received her wisdom (at whatever price) from the shining beautiful god Apollo.
Ramona was the peasant healer who straddled two worlds—she led a good and blameless life raising a grandchild but she was a woman without a mate. She healed her community but lived apart from them. She made harmless love potions that worked and but had no love. She prophesied futures that were confusing but probably true. Ramon's mumblings sometimes sounded a bit like mumbo jumbo.According to report's surviving from antiquity so did the Delphic Oracle's.
But the AdP writers cannot leave well enough alone. Again. Now they have tacked on the Cassandra story to Ramona's character and personality. This is adding an entirely different archtype to an existing character, as you, NM point out.
You make malicious mischief yet again, writers, and I cry foul. Cassandra is the exact opposite of the Delphic Oracle and here is why.
Cassandra was the sister of Helen of Troy, and she was herself a great beauty. Like many who dared to catch the attention of the Gods, she was punished. After Apollo noticed her, he desired her and wanted her to be his consort, She was lovely, smart, well spoken, kind and engaging. Apollo, or his servants, the serpents, are said to have gifted her with gift of prophecy or knowing the future.
At first she agreed to be Apollo's lover, but then she dared to change her mind and said no to Apollo. For this, Apollo cursed her to always know (and speak) the future but to never be believed. In some versions of the story, she is also cursed with actual madness.
Now her story gets really ugly, First she is abducted and raped by Ajax. Then, we are told by Aeschylus, she is taken as concubine and prize of war by King Agamemnon back home to Greece where she is promptly murdered by his wife and her lover. No wonder she displayed signs of PTSD, as Ramona is now doing!
But such behavior beggars belief in Ramona. Ramona is a tough old bird. She long ago had to accept that telling the truth carries inherent risks and that she is not responsible for how others respond to what she must say. She tries to be kind, but there is dignity in being a truth sayer and sometimes the truth will out, as it did with Augusto.
Let us just leave one character relatively simple in her complexity, shall we? Can't we just leave Ramona alone?
EJ, on a soapbox this morning this fine day
Sara and Blue, Steve, NM and sondie:
Mea culpa, mea culpa. I could not find my Butt with both hands after searching for it for 15 minutes, so I bought Jeff Bezos another cup of coffee, thank you Amazon.
I just got it new, the used options being more expensive than the old. Go figure.
It is time for me to get familiar with my Butt. It has never been a favorite of mine.
EJ
Mea culpa, mea culpa. I could not find my Butt with both hands after searching for it for 15 minutes, so I bought Jeff Bezos another cup of coffee, thank you Amazon.
I just got it new, the used options being more expensive than the old. Go figure.
It is time for me to get familiar with my Butt. It has never been a favorite of mine.
EJ
EJ's got a shiny new Butt! Hooray, EJ!
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 3:23:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 3:23:00 PM EDT
I go away for a few days and come back to find you all Butt reading? Is that like palm reading?
NM, loved your recap, especially the titles of your sections. Thanks for pulling double duty.
I liked QuiQui and Paloma together until he told her he was only inviting her to pith off his mom. As if she is 2nd class and without any feelings to boot. She laughed it off. I would have kicked him in the Butt.
On Dallas, JR's right hand man is named Bum. As long as we are going there today.
Rosemary la Otra
68
NM, loved your recap, especially the titles of your sections. Thanks for pulling double duty.
I liked QuiQui and Paloma together until he told her he was only inviting her to pith off his mom. As if she is 2nd class and without any feelings to boot. She laughed it off. I would have kicked him in the Butt.
On Dallas, JR's right hand man is named Bum. As long as we are going there today.
Rosemary la Otra
68
Loved the word play between Gael and DOn Lucio..
there is a saying in spanish where Lucio says 'tarde o temprano lo va a saber' (Loopy will find out sooner or later)... Gael just gets hopeful and says lets hope it is better later than sooner (they want him to find out about the petition with signatures as late as possible, since they both know he won't agree with it.
there is a saying in spanish where Lucio says 'tarde o temprano lo va a saber' (Loopy will find out sooner or later)... Gael just gets hopeful and says lets hope it is better later than sooner (they want him to find out about the petition with signatures as late as possible, since they both know he won't agree with it.
Cara Sara:
I am so proud, to be called an INCIPIENT BUTThead (IBH).
"Really, as you all know", EJ is on a roll now, confessing, and is clearing channeling the spirit and dramatic weeping skillz of Little Elisa. She is also, obviously, not working today.
"I am not yet WORTHY of the epithet 'BUTThead'. But, with your love and support, I will strive, I will strive, amigos, to earn that designation. I want to thank Novela Maven and Blue Lass, my recapping partners, for their inspiration in getting me to admit that I need help," sob, sob, wipes tears and snot up the side of her face, "Yes, I need help with Spanish grammar".
"My Butt, should arrive by Tuesday"!
EJ
I am so proud, to be called an INCIPIENT BUTThead (IBH).
"Really, as you all know", EJ is on a roll now, confessing, and is clearing channeling the spirit and dramatic weeping skillz of Little Elisa. She is also, obviously, not working today.
"I am not yet WORTHY of the epithet 'BUTThead'. But, with your love and support, I will strive, I will strive, amigos, to earn that designation. I want to thank Novela Maven and Blue Lass, my recapping partners, for their inspiration in getting me to admit that I need help," sob, sob, wipes tears and snot up the side of her face, "Yes, I need help with Spanish grammar".
"My Butt, should arrive by Tuesday"!
EJ
This comment has been removed by the author.
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 3:52:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 3:52:00 PM EDT
Sara:
Having spent time perusing your BUTT today—an experience a bit like checking out the scrapes scars and scratches of a well-worn Ouija board, I imagine—tell us, O Wise One, what should all Incipient BUTTheads learn today?
What is the first Spanish grammar lesson we should not forget? Seriously, now...What should we always remember about, as NM says, how the language is put together?
EJ
EJ
Having spent time perusing your BUTT today—an experience a bit like checking out the scrapes scars and scratches of a well-worn Ouija board, I imagine—tell us, O Wise One, what should all Incipient BUTTheads learn today?
What is the first Spanish grammar lesson we should not forget? Seriously, now...What should we always remember about, as NM says, how the language is put together?
EJ
EJ
NM, i second the 'be still my heart' comment... such a work of art..
loved this section...
Pout pout goes Flor. Snark snark goes Dam. Lying, Pregnancy-Faking Gold-Digging Flor, left alone, sighs and laments: “Como siempre, yo pago los platos rotos por culpa de Elisa.” (As usual, I sweep up after the elephants in E’s parade.)
...
The tía ...and Elisa go nose to nose, exchange insults and end with Elisa proposing that for now, they divide the house so they don’t have to see each other.
...
ALL TOGETHER NOW: ¡Ay, no puede ser! ¿Qué haces aquí? ¿Qué quieres?
I could not help but remember a scene of Yo soy Betty la Fea where Sandra and Patricia (two secretaries, one on Betty's side, one on Marcela's side) take a chalk and draw a line on the floor daring each other to cross it.. can you imagine Elisa and Carmina drawing a line with chalk from the front door all the way to the back foyer, saying I DARE YOU to cross this line!... of course Lolita would go back at night and draw the line again making Elisa's side of the house bigger ...
you rock!!
loved this section...
Pout pout goes Flor. Snark snark goes Dam. Lying, Pregnancy-Faking Gold-Digging Flor, left alone, sighs and laments: “Como siempre, yo pago los platos rotos por culpa de Elisa.” (As usual, I sweep up after the elephants in E’s parade.)
...
The tía ...and Elisa go nose to nose, exchange insults and end with Elisa proposing that for now, they divide the house so they don’t have to see each other.
...
ALL TOGETHER NOW: ¡Ay, no puede ser! ¿Qué haces aquí? ¿Qué quieres?
I could not help but remember a scene of Yo soy Betty la Fea where Sandra and Patricia (two secretaries, one on Betty's side, one on Marcela's side) take a chalk and draw a line on the floor daring each other to cross it.. can you imagine Elisa and Carmina drawing a line with chalk from the front door all the way to the back foyer, saying I DARE YOU to cross this line!... of course Lolita would go back at night and draw the line again making Elisa's side of the house bigger ...
you rock!!
My rule of thumb: always be sure of everything ( (creo que/ no hay duda que) That way you can dispense with the subjunctive. Never talk about what could be; only what is or was. Again to avoid the subjunctive.
No matter how much I study my Butt, the subjunctive lesson never seems to stick.
:-P
No matter how much I study my Butt, the subjunctive lesson never seems to stick.
:-P
And when in doubt, call everybody "usted."
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 4:12:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 4:12:00 PM EDT
Oh, goodie, a new reference! It's now on my Amazon wishlist.
I tend to avoid Spanish language study books written by Brits, because they tend to focus on usage in Spain. But I see from the reviews that this one goes out of it's way to thoroughly document modern Latin American usage as well - essential if you are watching Mexican telenovelas.
FWIW - my iPad Spanish-English dictionary by Word Magic has been very, very good, and definitely understands "Mexican". It's easy to look up verbal phrases and conjunctive phrases, and it often has many good examples. I rarely have to resort to web research when tracking down a phrase unless it's slang or uniquely Mexican colloquial usage. And wordreference.com is usually the web reference that catches the elusive ones.
Dichos, however, are another matter. You usually end up on wordreference.com.
I tend to avoid Spanish language study books written by Brits, because they tend to focus on usage in Spain. But I see from the reviews that this one goes out of it's way to thoroughly document modern Latin American usage as well - essential if you are watching Mexican telenovelas.
FWIW - my iPad Spanish-English dictionary by Word Magic has been very, very good, and definitely understands "Mexican". It's easy to look up verbal phrases and conjunctive phrases, and it often has many good examples. I rarely have to resort to web research when tracking down a phrase unless it's slang or uniquely Mexican colloquial usage. And wordreference.com is usually the web reference that catches the elusive ones.
Dichos, however, are another matter. You usually end up on wordreference.com.
Anon207, Thanks for coming through with another one of your amazing lists, this one of Mayhem Remembered. This really IS a slap-happy show. I wish I had started keeping count of slaps delivered and received from the start. The total would be impressive, I'm sure.
R la O, It's about time! We've had our Butts here every Dam day, lady! Get with the program.
Marta, I am blushing from your nice words. [Oh boy, Super Marta liked my recap!]
Thanks for pointing out that dandy expression "tarde o temprano". I've always enjoyed the way Spanish and English take the idiom in opposite directions: "late or early" (Spanish) vs. "sooner or later" (English)
It's like the expression for pain that "comes and goes" in English while in Spanish it "goes and comes" (va y viene).
I know there are others -- can anyone think of one?
R la O, It's about time! We've had our Butts here every Dam day, lady! Get with the program.
Marta, I am blushing from your nice words. [Oh boy, Super Marta liked my recap!]
Thanks for pointing out that dandy expression "tarde o temprano". I've always enjoyed the way Spanish and English take the idiom in opposite directions: "late or early" (Spanish) vs. "sooner or later" (English)
It's like the expression for pain that "comes and goes" in English while in Spanish it "goes and comes" (va y viene).
I know there are others -- can anyone think of one?
There is an awesome chain of grocery stores in Texas and Northern Mexico called H.E.B. - initials for Howard E. Butt, so we got over the "Butt" surname long ago. We just giggle when newcomers try to call it Heebs or Heb, LOL!
U.T. is famous for it's Hogg auditorium named after a state governer. His daughter is even more famous - her name was Ima Hogg. She's in wikipedia if you're curious.
U.T. is famous for it's Hogg auditorium named after a state governer. His daughter is even more famous - her name was Ima Hogg. She's in wikipedia if you're curious.
Blue Lass and Sara, I agree with EJ. That's great advice for learners. Thanks!
EJ, my learned friend, I loved your eloquent mythic excursion. Our truth, as viewers, is that we no longer know who Ramona is supposed to be.
A flash of yellow briefs, some beautiful horses. It will have to be enough for now.
Audrey, I've found that if you set your Google search to include other languages (Spanish, French, Korean?), you can find just about anything, including dichos. It's true that much of the time, Google will direct you back to Wordreference. But if you start at Wordreference, you may have a hard time finding that particular needle in that very large haystack.
EJ, my learned friend, I loved your eloquent mythic excursion. Our truth, as viewers, is that we no longer know who Ramona is supposed to be.
A flash of yellow briefs, some beautiful horses. It will have to be enough for now.
Audrey, I've found that if you set your Google search to include other languages (Spanish, French, Korean?), you can find just about anything, including dichos. It's true that much of the time, Google will direct you back to Wordreference. But if you start at Wordreference, you may have a hard time finding that particular needle in that very large haystack.
¡Sopas! Yo no sabía nada de los idiomas y la búsqueda de google!! Gracias!!
Today on Amorcito Corazón a little character used the word POMPAS (Butt)...how awesome is that?!
Today on Amorcito Corazón a little character used the word POMPAS (Butt)...how awesome is that?!
Hi NovelaMaven!
I usually I start with Google search, and if I type whatever only in Spanish, it searches mostly Spanish language sites and even sometimes corrects my dicho for me!!!!! It also finds the specific wordreference entries if they are available although sometimes I have to add something about English translation to my search.
For example, today I used Google to search on "hasta que no venga in English" and it turned up several wordreference entries as well as loads of other sites.
I usually I start with Google search, and if I type whatever only in Spanish, it searches mostly Spanish language sites and even sometimes corrects my dicho for me!!!!! It also finds the specific wordreference entries if they are available although sometimes I have to add something about English translation to my search.
For example, today I used Google to search on "hasta que no venga in English" and it turned up several wordreference entries as well as loads of other sites.
Awesome grammar lessons! To all of you contributing to them, huge thanks. I still stumble around like a stooge a lot, though my comprehension has improved a little, thank goodness...
Vivi, I think that Ingrid and Carmina are really high on the imminent demise list just as you have them, especially with ING mucking around behind GAB's back here lately. But everyone you have for imminent demise is pretty much a candidate. For sure.
The way GAB got rid of the Widow Beltran was just awful. I'm surprised that he got his own hands dirty.
Blue Lass, so cool about the Korean drama you watched. I love Korean dramas and started watching them two years ago. The writing is on point, but I do have to say that 50 percent of the time you want to KILL a writer the way they end them. LOL! I started learning Korean about a year ago, but recently lost my teacher when she had to relocate. I'm like desperate to find another one, but so far, no luck. :(
Maven, I forgot to say that Princess Pea walking behind elephants with a big broom is ONE GREAT IMAGE.
I don't have a Butt! Guess I'd better get one quick.
JudyB and Sara, LOL! Seriously, Fina has me reaching for the Pepto Bismol. Especially when she walks into a church as if the Big Seenyor Upstairs would be happy to see her. LOL
Vivi, I think that Ingrid and Carmina are really high on the imminent demise list just as you have them, especially with ING mucking around behind GAB's back here lately. But everyone you have for imminent demise is pretty much a candidate. For sure.
The way GAB got rid of the Widow Beltran was just awful. I'm surprised that he got his own hands dirty.
Blue Lass, so cool about the Korean drama you watched. I love Korean dramas and started watching them two years ago. The writing is on point, but I do have to say that 50 percent of the time you want to KILL a writer the way they end them. LOL! I started learning Korean about a year ago, but recently lost my teacher when she had to relocate. I'm like desperate to find another one, but so far, no luck. :(
Maven, I forgot to say that Princess Pea walking behind elephants with a big broom is ONE GREAT IMAGE.
I don't have a Butt! Guess I'd better get one quick.
JudyB and Sara, LOL! Seriously, Fina has me reaching for the Pepto Bismol. Especially when she walks into a church as if the Big Seenyor Upstairs would be happy to see her. LOL
If folks are trying to find a dicho, start with Google. I've had great luck with only having bits or half of a dicho, and Google give me all of it - and even list variations.
Stephe, it was 5 years ago I was watching my K-Drama as well. I can't remember the name of it, but the protagonista's name was Dampung. She and her galan worked for a food products company called Bonjour Foods.
I don't think I've ever mixed so many languages together in one sentence in my life.
I don't think I've ever mixed so many languages together in one sentence in my life.
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 6:24:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 6:24:00 PM EDT
Ah hah, that was "Likeable Or Not"! Cool.
Yep, you're mixing those languages like a pro. I find that quite fun. :D
Yep, you're mixing those languages like a pro. I find that quite fun. :D
Novela Maven thanks for that super recaps. Now there's the Teresa/Elisa I've been waiting for so long. Love it. Enough of the crying and Fight!!!!
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 9:05:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 9:05:00 PM EDT
i'm worried that paloma is slated to kick the bucket (but not soon), because i'm like EJ and believe that the prophecies should serve a plot purpose, and if not, the writers are doing it wrong!
if she's not meant to be with gael or enrique, then whom? (jeez, i hope my english grammar is right). The single guys are dwindling, and i don't think guido is her type! vicente? but he's her half-bro!
cool discussion folks! no wonder the post count is so high. i like grammar, but fall short of buttworship.
and just to clarify something i think i missed... were the horses you all joke about part of the beltran estate? something she said about not being able to care for them anymore?
and cyn, yes, i know you are gab's #1 fan, but can't i like him tooooooo? nobody believes me around here that he's no coldblooded killer, just a bumbling alfie wannabe. i wish they would hurry up and throw him a housewarming party over at bandanaland.
-mai tai
if she's not meant to be with gael or enrique, then whom? (jeez, i hope my english grammar is right). The single guys are dwindling, and i don't think guido is her type! vicente? but he's her half-bro!
cool discussion folks! no wonder the post count is so high. i like grammar, but fall short of buttworship.
and just to clarify something i think i missed... were the horses you all joke about part of the beltran estate? something she said about not being able to care for them anymore?
and cyn, yes, i know you are gab's #1 fan, but can't i like him tooooooo? nobody believes me around here that he's no coldblooded killer, just a bumbling alfie wannabe. i wish they would hurry up and throw him a housewarming party over at bandanaland.
-mai tai
Permalink posted by : Friday, August 3, 2012 at 9:55:00 PM EDT
: Friday, August 3, 2012 at 9:55:00 PM EDT
Hi Vida2! So glad you enjoyed the recap.
mai tai,
"were the horses you all joke about part of the beltran estate?"
Nope. A few days back, we were making lists of "stoopid" and "non-stoopid" characters on the show. As you might imagine, it was hard to find candidates for the second list. Some wanted Lucio on the list and others wanted to add Maru.
I believe it was Doris who pointed out that the only ones who truly deserved a place on the "non-stoopid" list were the horses. But then the list would look pretty stoopid so we decided to add don Lucio and later, Maru.
And just to be clear -- no Butt is required to join in the grammar chat. OTOH, ain't nothing wrong with Buttworship.
mai tai,
"were the horses you all joke about part of the beltran estate?"
Nope. A few days back, we were making lists of "stoopid" and "non-stoopid" characters on the show. As you might imagine, it was hard to find candidates for the second list. Some wanted Lucio on the list and others wanted to add Maru.
I believe it was Doris who pointed out that the only ones who truly deserved a place on the "non-stoopid" list were the horses. But then the list would look pretty stoopid so we decided to add don Lucio and later, Maru.
And just to be clear -- no Butt is required to join in the grammar chat. OTOH, ain't nothing wrong with Buttworship.
Hi mai tai!
There are horses at Alfie's estate (Hacienda Arango) and at Cielo Abierto (Elisa's father's estate) . Plus Romona has a horse or mule or something that pulls her cart. These are really the only horses we have "gotten to know" so far. We often see people riding horses in town in the background of a puebla scene. The Beltrán horses have only been mentioned - we haven't seen them yet.
There are horses at Alfie's estate (Hacienda Arango) and at Cielo Abierto (Elisa's father's estate) . Plus Romona has a horse or mule or something that pulls her cart. These are really the only horses we have "gotten to know" so far. We often see people riding horses in town in the background of a puebla scene. The Beltrán horses have only been mentioned - we haven't seen them yet.
Anon,
how come Gael hitting anyone is not on your list? so far he has mauled Chente on his first appearance, he went after Paolo at the procesadora but Dam did not let him.
this week he smacked Gabino good.
And last night he had another shot on Damian.
Elisa and Alfie have exchanged slaps too... does slap count as assault?
how come Gael hitting anyone is not on your list? so far he has mauled Chente on his first appearance, he went after Paolo at the procesadora but Dam did not let him.
this week he smacked Gabino good.
And last night he had another shot on Damian.
Elisa and Alfie have exchanged slaps too... does slap count as assault?
@NovelaMaven...ohmigosh, and I missed "J'accuse" your very first heading (in a hurry to get to the rest). I know I say it ad nauseum but still...so literate, so witty, such a trip to read your stuff. You should be nationally syndicated.
also
Augusto shooting at Damian at civil registry
Damian beating up Paolo at cenote
Alfie slapping Elisa when Rosie died, she also slapped Damian, if i remember correctly.
Paloma charged Kenya but Gael got in the way.
Mark Tacher(Gael) got that side swing right hook down packed. Seen it in at least 3 novelas. Several times in LHDM. This time Damian earned his right to be on the receiving end of that.
But Lolita's slap got that beat... boy can Eugenia swing a slap!
Augusto shooting at Damian at civil registry
Damian beating up Paolo at cenote
Alfie slapping Elisa when Rosie died, she also slapped Damian, if i remember correctly.
Paloma charged Kenya but Gael got in the way.
Mark Tacher(Gael) got that side swing right hook down packed. Seen it in at least 3 novelas. Several times in LHDM. This time Damian earned his right to be on the receiving end of that.
But Lolita's slap got that beat... boy can Eugenia swing a slap!
I sincerely hope they don't do that thing where they bring in an entirely new character in últimas semanas to pair the spare. That is SO unsatisfying.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, August 4, 2012 at 8:53:00 AM EDT
: Saturday, August 4, 2012 at 8:53:00 AM EDT
blue lass, depends who it is, no? i mean you're right, but it sure was fun to see christian de la fuente show up on FELS for a few episodes with his bullring and riding and give yanez a run for his money!
i want more horses! remember how cool caprichio was? he'd walk by juan with no lead or reins, unless a woman with a basket of cookies distracted him. maybe the beltran stables are full of pasofinos, and the story will completely change, and gabino will turn a new leaf, and ride off into the sunset with .... um... not too many choices... maybe he'll help repair a very wounded sabrina? or maybe they'll introduce a new character for HIM, one without hacidic curls, and smart enough to keep him out of trouble.
-mai tai
i want more horses! remember how cool caprichio was? he'd walk by juan with no lead or reins, unless a woman with a basket of cookies distracted him. maybe the beltran stables are full of pasofinos, and the story will completely change, and gabino will turn a new leaf, and ride off into the sunset with .... um... not too many choices... maybe he'll help repair a very wounded sabrina? or maybe they'll introduce a new character for HIM, one without hacidic curls, and smart enough to keep him out of trouble.
-mai tai
Permalink posted by : Saturday, August 4, 2012 at 9:18:00 AM EDT
: Saturday, August 4, 2012 at 9:18:00 AM EDT
OK, Mai Tai, if it's C de la F, I'll make an exception. :)
Permalink posted by : Saturday, August 4, 2012 at 9:20:00 AM EDT
: Saturday, August 4, 2012 at 9:20:00 AM EDT
Picture this --
The Yúcatan, 2012
William Levy paddles his kayak silently through the cenote.
At first Ramona glimpses only the sun-dappled torso of this unlikely Apollo. Then he turns to her and smiles impishly.
"Muchacho" she calls out, startling through the silence of the morning, "I want you to meet my granddaughter."
The Yúcatan, 2012
William Levy paddles his kayak silently through the cenote.
At first Ramona glimpses only the sun-dappled torso of this unlikely Apollo. Then he turns to her and smiles impishly.
"Muchacho" she calls out, startling through the silence of the morning, "I want you to meet my granddaughter."
JudyB,
Mr. Maven says you really need to cut it out, that if you keep saying stuff like that there'll be no living with me.
[pssss -- But I say no need to hold back.]
Awww. Thank you.
And while we're here, I've been meaning to thank you for recommending L'élégance du hérisson. What a beautiful story! The reading level was a challenge for me -- exactly what I needed -- but not overwhelming. One of my favorite lines in the text:
Renée has just been stunned into silence by M. Ozu's concertizing plumbing and she reflects:
J'aurais dû appeler mon chat Padsyntax.
Mr. Maven says you really need to cut it out, that if you keep saying stuff like that there'll be no living with me.
[pssss -- But I say no need to hold back.]
Awww. Thank you.
And while we're here, I've been meaning to thank you for recommending L'élégance du hérisson. What a beautiful story! The reading level was a challenge for me -- exactly what I needed -- but not overwhelming. One of my favorite lines in the text:
Renée has just been stunned into silence by M. Ozu's concertizing plumbing and she reflects:
J'aurais dû appeler mon chat Padsyntax.
Hah! I'd forgotten that line (and a lot of others too) but I found the languag throughout Hérisson a real delight.
I also love your William Levy scenario. I'm sure Paloma will too. Who cares if he's a mush mouth? We can all think of a better use for those lips I imagine.
I also love your William Levy scenario. I'm sure Paloma will too. Who cares if he's a mush mouth? We can all think of a better use for those lips I imagine.
William Levy paddles his kayak silently through the cenote.
-----
YES!!!!! I vote for this storyline.
You know, every once in a while I still go back to your TdA Final recap and read the "alternate ending." I really wish they had consulted you. :-)
If we're going to be getting all tri-lingual, I better brush up on my German.
-----
YES!!!!! I vote for this storyline.
You know, every once in a while I still go back to your TdA Final recap and read the "alternate ending." I really wish they had consulted you. :-)
If we're going to be getting all tri-lingual, I better brush up on my German.
NM sorry to be so late to the party but glad its still going on. In addition to your wonderful recap, you give us an excellent fantasy scene with Ramona actually being helpful to her nieta with William Levy to boot. I'm with Judy, you should be syndicated!
"If we're going to be getting all tri-lingual"
Yeah, right, Sara.
Padsyntax = pas de syntax
Absence of syntax, ie, incoherent, babbling -- which is how I am in English much of the time, in Spanish nearly all of the time and in French -- we won't even go there. jiji
Karen,
It's a good thing I've set my beanie aside for the duration of the Pits because my head is getting so big, I'd have to plead with Emilia to make me a new one (beanie, not head) -- supersized, with the tinfoil lining reinforced so I could continue to believe my own press.
[NM snorts and goes back to perusing her older but still perfectly functional Butt.]
Yeah, right, Sara.
Padsyntax = pas de syntax
Absence of syntax, ie, incoherent, babbling -- which is how I am in English much of the time, in Spanish nearly all of the time and in French -- we won't even go there. jiji
Karen,
It's a good thing I've set my beanie aside for the duration of the Pits because my head is getting so big, I'd have to plead with Emilia to make me a new one (beanie, not head) -- supersized, with the tinfoil lining reinforced so I could continue to believe my own press.
[NM snorts and goes back to perusing her older but still perfectly functional Butt.]
NM my dear:
I believe your press. Grin.
Why oh why do I think the writers are going to slam Gael and Paloma back together in Ultimas Semanas like an only-appealing-when-ACTUALLY-pregnant peanut butter and habanero taco?
I like the Levy idea so much better.
EJ
Post a Comment
I believe your press. Grin.
Why oh why do I think the writers are going to slam Gael and Paloma back together in Ultimas Semanas like an only-appealing-when-ACTUALLY-pregnant peanut butter and habanero taco?
I like the Levy idea so much better.
EJ
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