Caray, Caray!

Heroine: two men are in love with you. You must choose!

a) I choose Man A.
b) I choose Man B.
c) I choose to reject the ludicrous premise that I have only two choices. Another person's interest does not place any obligation on me.

I would like someone, anyone, to choose option C. (She can be more tactful about it if she wishes.)
 

I want to see a leading man or leading woman to not be so focused on 'i can only be happy with the love of my life'... i want to see a novela where a girl or guy who meets another 'prospect' and slowly but surely falls in love with them after they are discouraged/dissappointed in the original prospect. Does not always happen that someone can 'put their first big love in the back burner' but it does happen in real life, and i would like to see a novela where it does.
 

Urban-- great theme. Would love to see the end of the fake embarazadas and taking of babies that don't belong to you or you want to get rid of cause they are an impediment to the galan. The writers on TN's use this plot device alot.

Also agree with Julie. We discussed this at length during UFCS and she's right there SHOULD be an option C available.
 

I'm with Madelaine on the fake pregnancies/stolen babies grow on trees theme. SO SICK AND TIRED OF IT. That is so played out!! OMG.

I've also had it with the nefarious replacing of the main character with their twin/doppleganger. Ugh. Can you say 2000 and LATE?

I hate the Long Staircase of Doom that every pregnant heroine has to tumble down in order to lose the hero's baby.

Julie and Marta are right on the money, too. I'm chime in with more as I think of them. Because there definitely are more. LOL

Thanks for this thread, Urban. Thumbs up!




 

How about the hyperbolic arguments that result from a gross misunderstanding? Is it really possible in the real world for a woman to forgive a man who calls her a cualquiera, ramera, mujer suela, or any similar thing based on something said by someone else (Rodrigo, I'm talking to you)?

Those would be the last words any man would ever say to me no matter how I felt about him before. You can never unhear that.
 

I'm tired of telenovela couples meeting for the first time, and within three episodes they are novios enamorados and ready to get married. Hel-lo?!?
 

Fun discussion. Thanks for starting it UA.

Aside from the trite storylines you have all mentioned, here's what bothers me terribly in every telenovela--the everyday violence. I'm not talking about the kind of abuse of women shown in some shows..I'm talking about how everybody slaps other people and says terrible, cutting, hurtful things at the drop of a hat.

I think this bothers me because growing up, that sort of thing happened to me...the slaps, the disrespect, the harsh words. So it seems more real and therefore more upsetting.

The fake pregnancies, evil twins, and destined "love at first sight never to be recovered from" are so far from my life experience that they are amusing rather than upsetting.

But oh! I want those slaps to stop. And the harsh, aggressive, wounding words. I worry that people watching these will think, well sure, that's how to handle a relationship...a conflict...why not?
 

Oh, how about the endless amnesia ones? You know when the galan gets in the endless car wreck in the middle of BFE, gets tended to by someone and for weeks can't remember who he is? Same goes for the heroine? And then the evil/guy woman woos them and they get taken in. Then it takes forever for them to regain their memory.
 

I'm willing to accept that novelas are all about true love. I'd just like to see two people get there without misunderstandings and deceptions. Other obstacles can stand in the way, even other love-interests. This would require that our lovers, however much star-crossed for a time, don't act like idiots!

Thanks for posting this fun discussion, UA. Those of us who start back to school jobs on Tuesday are savoring these last few days before the busy, busy times hit. I know that many of my companeros in educ. have started back already. A great time of year, full of anticipation!



 

Heroes and heroines, if you're going to bail at the first malentendido (and the second, and the third...) please don't preface it by announcing that you love someone "con todas tus fuerzas" or "mas que tu propria vida." Coz it just don't jibe.
 

Also, and I realize this may not make me popular, could we see an unexpectedly-pregnant character have just a *few* doubts and concerns, instead of telling everyone that it's absolutely the best thing that's ever happened to her?
 

Amen to that, Blue Lass. A "baby is indeed a gift from God" as they love to say in these telenovelas (I had three) but it's also an awesome responsibility and people very naturally fear the consequences of bringing a new life into the world, even when the pregnancy was planned. And when it's unplanned and the mother is single...oh my!
 

Or how about a heroine who has doubts she wants children or decides she doesn't want to at all (without having a genetic or infertility isse about it)? Surely there have to be women in Latin America who make this decision and it doesn't make them bad people.
 

I am loving all of these. You picked a GREAT topic, UA.

As a corollary to Blue Lass's "if you're gonna bail at the first misunderstanding, don't get all 'todas mis fuerzas'", I will add:

Never, ever, ever say "I love you forever" or "I'm yours for the rest of my life" if you are a TN character and it's not the absolute last week of your show. Any sooner than that, those Famous Last Words are always followed by an ugly breakup.

In fact, TN characters trip themselves up so often with that kind of pre-breakup talk that when they're married and saying "para siempre" and "toda me alma" again in the last episode, you can't help but wonder how long their bliss will last.

Sometimes they do prove before they tie the knot that they're no longer gullible, but more often they prove only that they will no longer be fooled by that ONE specific troublemaker. It seems like some new sneaky person could come along and easily trip them up with the same old tricks.
 

And I will add an extra-hearty YES to the possibility of someday seeing a TN couple NOT list children (biological offspring or adopted) as a required and inevitable part of their future total happiness.

I have nothing against kids, and there's no question that the couples who want them are the vast majority. But I'd like to see some acknowledgement that a person can feel just as blessed without children.
 

Love the topic too!! Frankly to be rehashing plot lines that were used MANY years ago in itself makes those plots out of date and behind the times.

I agree with everything that has been noted, my biggest pet peeve being the hook up of the hero-heroine right at the start, and no matter who better they have chemistry with or what befalls them, you know you're stuck with them as THE couple. Writers--it will actually be more exciting to not know who people wind up with. THink about it.

Another one I'm really tiring of is the villianess who hides behind extreme faith ( Catholicism usually) to justify their crimes. Let them be a villianess because their nuts, they are greedy, plain evil, whatever.

Agree so much: better examples of young female characters to young girls watching. Don't dress like a street walker, go to school for either a degree or a viable skill set, or show a positive talent that can give them an identity, don't play games with guys and try to trap them ( why is that happening now with the supposed good second fiddle characters?).

And for the love of Pete, stop letting supposedly smart people in the show condone or excuse a character who is down-right, obviously wrong, evil or manipulative.

Never use the line "It wasn't my secret to tell" ever again.
 

Reading this just reminds me of how much I enjoyed the few times I've seen telenovelas stray from form. In Querida Enemiga, for example, the heroine ended up with Man 2, not the original galán she fell for. Of course, Man 2 was the renowned Chef Hawt, so how could she not?

Also, I liked that in Al Diablo con los Guapos, Mili and Alejandro were mostly kept apart by the strategic and compelling manipulations of others, and not by their own stupid bickering and misunderstandings (they did have a few of those, but didn't usually break up over it). Plus they were solidly together and working as a team to defeat the bad guys well before the finale.

One thing I find totally silly is all the young women, basically anyone who is is pretty and not dirt poor, wearing cocktail dresses and high heels ALL the time. That seems so unrealistic to me. Even fashionable young ladies with money usually want to be more comfortable and wear jeans and flats and stuff some of the time, although they would probably be super expensive trendy designer jeans and whatnot. But the constant super short skirts...Mexico City isn't always that warm.
 

I'm with Judy on the casual violence thing and i really hate when rape is used and then the victim seems to recover with little or no emotional side effects. it always trivializes something that is not.

So agree about the pregnancy fake or real that is staircase doomed. The moment i see a long staircase in a novela I know someone is doomed to fall down it. I also find it upsetting that once a real pregnancy is ended badly the victim recovers like oh well there is always the next time.


 

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The virgin (or otherwise) lead actress never gets to go on a date with the leading man BEFORE she falls in bed with him. However, her competition always gets to go on dates (and treated like a lady) before she gets pregnant. Why is it that the lead actress finds the lead actor so irresistable that all of her morals go out the door and she simply gets "screwed" until the end of the show when he marries her.
 

I'd also like to see a few more "Cinderfellas" like Eduardo Santamarina's Antonio from El Precio de tu Amor and Pablo Montero's Cruz in Triunfo del Amor; guys who upgrade themselves to be worthy of the women they fall in love with. TN stories are too heavily weighted in favor of poor but smart girls who get both good jobs and the hot rich guy.
 

The everyday violence going on IS very troubling. And is it just me, or does it seem like the violence against children is ramping up? *shudder*

If they're trying to remind us that in real life, kids get physically and mentally hurt by adults every day, then they're doing a good job of it. As much as I loved seeing the ABISMO kids and their story lines, I shuddered every time they came on and waited for them to get struck down. It was a relief when they finally grew up.
 

Urban said: Is it really possible in the real world for a woman to forgive a man who calls her a cualquiera, ramera, mujer suela, or any similar thing based on something said by someone else (Rodrigo, I'm talking to you)?

Those would be the last words any man would ever say to me no matter how I felt about him before. You can never unhear that.

My feelings exactly. How can you just "unhear" something like that? I was called out of my name like that once, and that was all she wrote. Yeah, he was hot and I was smitten, but was OVER. Big Red Flag.
 

What about the "let me sit/walk/stand out here all alone in the pitch dark, in the middle of this wilderness/dark alley, in the middle of the night, having not told anyone I was leaving the house, so I can be assaulted/kidnapped/can disappear" ploy. O__o

And the "even though we're on the phone right now, I can't tell you The Secret, must wait until we're face to face, so that the villain has a chance to kill me in the interim" ploy. Really?
 

BECAUSE I DIDN'T CLOSE THE DOOR AND HE'S RIGHT OUTSIDE
 

How about how they never mention the issue of birth control? Usually, of course, the bad girls use it, the good ones don't. But wouldn't it be refreshing just once to have the guy ask the girl if she was on the pill, or she ask him if he had a condom? I know, it's hard to concentrate on these things with all that romantic music, candles and flowers strewn everywhere.

Actually they sometimes mention birth control after, such as "I though you were cuidandote". I thought YOU were cuidandote." This can result in an embarazada situation.
 

Great topic. I've agreed with everyone's sentiments.

When I think of cliches on a TN, the first thing I think of is the female lead always has to be true and virginal to her man that she had love at first sight with. No matter what happens after she meets him, she remains virginal until he has her. He, on the other hand, can have many women before the one he's destined to be with. I'm sick of the double standard.

Even in Abismo, Elisa is engaged to marry Gael, but she hasn't even kissed him on the lips because we all know that she's supposed to end up with Damian. Damian, on the other hand, has had sex with another several times. It's ok that he does it, but she has to remain true to him. UGH!
 

Thanks so much UA for posting this topic.

Extending the violence discussion, I can't stand when the galan is over the top abusive to the heroine but b/c they are destine to be with one another his past treatment of her can be rationalized away. There is a difference between immaturity and abusive behavior. It seems the latter is attached to a type of masculinity that all women have to endure.

The writers should also not have innocent = stupid with regard to the good characters. The villains often are the ones with a brain and the good guys show such poor reasoning skills you fear them procreating.

And ITA w/Decie Girl about making light of rape and other abuse against women. It's naturalized in ways that are very disturbing.
 

During the last few episodes of LQNPA I was hoping that Vanessa would really turn on Bruno once she realized he was using her. I would have loved to have seen her do a Lorena Bobbitt on him and get away with it; I would have stood up and cheered!

And back to something I mentioned in the last discussion on this subject: Mandatory forgiveness is neither healthy nor realistic. Some things are simply unforgivable and the injured party should not be required to let the perp off the hook emotionally by forgiving him/her.
 

Amen. Mandatory forgiveness just because you're a Good Guy = B.S.
 

Birth control is definitely on my list of Want to See. Since birth control is so important to the quality of one's future life there need to be messages that one should never have children they don't want or aren't ready for.

Here's something that got me giving a thumbs-up years ago: In most novelas the birth of a healthy baby girl is usually not regarded as an affront because she's not a boy. In Yo Compro Esa Mujer the villain is not upset when his firstborn is a girl because he's a practical man who knows the odds are in favor of the next baby being a boy. However, Eduardo of Por Ella Soy Eva is over-the-top in hating his daughter merely for being a woman who wants autonomy. That may be due to the theme of the series, but I wonder how much his attitude is influencing male viewers.
 

Great topic, UA, and great discussion. One item that I didn't see mentioned: I'd love to see people who know how to shut doors before they reveal key information. I can't imagine telling someone something sensitive without first making sure the doors and windows are closed. And if I knew that there were people in the house who I didn't trust, I'd make sure that I didn't say anything even remotely important without first checking the doors and windows. In spy movies, everyone seems to know that they should go for a walk in order to reveal anything important; why haven't the TN characters learned this? Don't they watch movies?
 

UA-
So if Televisa and Univision are reading here, they may see our recommendations to each other for sites that have the episodes online? Is that what you are referring to?


 

Oops, wrong thread. That's what I get for having 3 windows open. I'll post that same question on the correct thread.
 

I totally agree with all the previously expressed comments.
I would like to see female characters evolve more fully into the current century and men be a little less over the top in their chauvinism. All four of the Uni novelas continue to have a lot of macho/sexist/controlling men and it doesn't jive with the strong female characters like Luciana who tells it like it is, Gala, who has her own company and money and Camila, who is a vet and is coming more and more into her own with the help of a, rare but welcome, Viviana. In the end they all find "true love" (except Gala not a spoiler but you know she won't end up w/Rod) and have their "Gran Final" boda.
I fully realize the culture is much more traditional, which I don't mind, but there has been an evolution in gender roles, even in urban Mexico. Rarely is there a switch to a more suitable suitor(second galan) except in "Querida Enemiga".
I think the smart, attractive, subtlety ambitious mid 20's - 40's protagonistas would be welcome.
Maybe I need to tighten my beanie.
Wonderful topic UA.
SFChicaBonita
 

I used to tutor Mexican women in English. Every one of the women I tutored had only a 6th grade education and wanted to learn English to help get along in this country. I asked if everyone only went to school in Mexico for such a short time and was told yes, or at least that was true for females. They would have to start working at home helping their mother or work to earn money for the family.

It was difficult to teach them English because their own education was so limited, they didn't understand sentence structure in their own language let alone understand it in another. They relied on their husbands, extended family and even more so their children, to help them get to work and talk to non-spanish speaking people. Husbands usually spoke more English than they did, and of course, their children were fluent.

That being said, I would have to guess that the writers are writing to this audience, in Mexico especially, but here too, when they come up with story lines and outcomes. That's not to say that they can't progress the actions to the 21st century, but maybe these plotlines poll well there.


 

Maybe Luciana of Refugio is meant to be an advocate for such women? Maybe someone was planting seeds of change in LQNPA when Ana Paula was asked to serve on a committee for women's advancement?

I do like how feminist it's getting in PESE with Juan's consciousness being raised.

Also, there have to be some atheists in Mexico, too. When will we really have an atheist character who doesn't do an about face at the end?
 

I agree with whoever commented on the totally in view eavesdropping. Makes me crazy and I always end up shouting at the television.

Do something...look around...close the door...glance up at the mirror...go outside...anything.

Love the topic - thanks.

Marti
 

There is also the total lack of any worthwhile medical equipment in any hospital/medical facility. And that there is always one doctor who specializes in absolutely everything.

Marti
 

what a great topic Urban. I agree with every one on what they would like to see changed on these TN. My greatest disappointment is the constant abuse of women and kids. The abuse of house help and the insensibility of the rich. The majority of their viewers are women and yet the themes don't change. My Spanish neighbor doesn't watch TNs. Her reason? It depresses her. I can see why.

 

I'd like to see a priest who leaves the religious life. That only happened once in my memory.

And let's have a supernatural-themed novela, por favor, that isn't a joke. The vampire ones they do in Brazil are shameful.
 

This morning I thought about the twin thing.

The only good twin/evil twin pair I thought had any credibility was in Mundo de Fieras where the two had somehow been separated at birth and raised in two different families (Not that any social worker would ever allow a pair of twins to be separated in the first place). In every other novela where the twins were raised together we still had a good and an evil one. This is derived from a primitive superstition that should no longer be perpetuated.


 

UA said:
"And let's have a supernatural-themed novela, por favor, that isn't a joke. The vampire ones they do in Brazil are shameful."

I can remember one supernatural TN from Televisa: "El extraño retorno de Diana Salazar" with Lucía Méndez, Jorge Martínez, Alejandro Camacho and Alma Muriel. It dealt with reincarnation and parapsychology. It's been so long since I saw it that I don't remember the whole story (it was made in 1988 and and I caught it on Univisión when they rebroadcast it during the day).

Diana Salazar (LM) kept having nightmares about a woman named Leonor de Santiago who was accused of witchcraft and was burned at the stake along with her fiancé Eduardo. She is seeing a psychiatrist Irene del Conde (AM). In addition Diana can go into a trance and make things happen. The special effects people would turn her brown eyes green when this happened. Omar (AC), a parapsychologist wanted to do a case study of Diana. He is the lover of Irene. One day Diana sees a photo of a man named Mario (JM) who has arrived from Argentina. She recognizes him as the man from her dream. The fun begins.

I doubt the whole novela is online anywhere but here is a You Tube clip. In it Diana marries Omar and signs the certificate "Leonor de Santiago," and discovers that Omar and Irene are lovers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxSunJMExf4&feature=related

For the time it was so outside the box that it remains one of my all time favs.
 

Sorry, that clip is the opening sequence. This should be the one I described:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rImeuZfWZ-o&feature=related

(I really hate proving that I'm not a robot.)
 

Thanks, Sue. I will check those out. Were you around when I posted my dream cast for a hypothetical Televisa remake of Dark Shadows? I really wish it were possible to make that happen.
 

UA--Could you also tag your weekend masterpieces for Amorcito Corazon? There are a number of dedicated watchers, recappers and posters who would like to be in on the fun--archivally speaking.

My favorite pet peeves, ones I cannot do without having a good laugh:

1) The ubiquitous brown vial of poison that is routinely used on unspespecting victims. How and where do the bad guys/gals get this stuff without detection and get to use it with abandon.

2) Shots fired--Scene One: The good guys who get shot at ridiculous distances (sometimes off a moving horse) and need to be patched up by the good girl; --Scene Two: The bad guy gets shot at the end of the tn and what looks like a flesh wound is always fatal.

3) Automobile crashes--we see a car tumbling down a cliff and explodes in a ball of fire, but the galan lives; or, there is a minor choque and someone ends up in the hospital with tubes in the arm and oxygen in the nose.

4) Speaking of hospital stays--don't we just love it when there is a head injury, followed by delicate surgery, shown in great detail on camera; then the patient is recovering in a complete head wrap and when it comes off, the hair is all in place.

5) Amnesia. Can't do without it.

Anita
 

I have to add one of my pet peeves. The lost baby/child. Somehow the mother puts down the baby and it vanishes only later on to appear as a poor street waif. i remember a discussion few years ago on the subject and we all couldn't believe the number of women who lost their kids. Drives me BS crazy every time. It is over the top, not believable and who could ever admire q woman so scattered she misplaced a child like we do umbrellas.
 

Sorry about that, Anita; forgot this time.

In FELS when Juan in got amnesia I had a conniption. I looked it up and found out that it's real, but that to have such total amnesia as he did is extremely rare. I have to say that despite all the other flaws in the writing of that series, his recovery was realistic. There was no big event to jog the memory, not even hearing his name did it, and he didn't recognize his brothers instantly either. It took time.

But it is an overused plot point.

Lost children/switched babies are such staple elements of fairy tales that I think we're stuck with that. What I wish they would do with that is more instantaneous recognition that a blood test can end that mystery.
 

For anyone who missed any of the previous weekend topics

All have been revised to include the current tags and all have the jump breaks. If you click "weekend" you will get all of them starting on one page with lots of room for the future ones.

Everyone, please feel free to suggest future topics. For next week, would anyone like to talk about movie remakes again?
 

My pet peeve.....the instant transformation of a truly misguided character in the space of a couple weeks. [Teresa!] Real people change for the better every day, but it usually requires a support team and tons of work, not an insta-change Ultima Semanas kind of thing! Let us see the work!!

This has already been mentioned, but important topics like date/marital rape are treated in pre-historic ways..... "I liked it". [Sorti]

Too tired to elaborate, but saw a dangerous trend setter in Maid, good girl tramp sleeping with many guys on the first date.... good girl ramera! Hope we don't go in that direction
 

UA, I'd like to do movie remakes again
 

1. Good girls who don't want to have children right away. Good luck with that! We have an only child. When I tell a female Mexican immigrant that, she ALWAYS wants to know why only one. I try to politely blow it off, but they ALWAYS assume that with only one, there must be some sort of medical or marital reason. So to have none? Inconceivable (pun intended).

2. The Sweet Young Thing abandons her first One True Love in favor of her second One True Love. The Colunga one - was it Amor Real or Alborada (I always confuse those two)? She loved a poor soldier but Colunga paid off the family debt and her evil mother forced her to marry him. She ended up falling in love with him long after they were married.

3. Gradual character transformation. Fea was spectacular at that one. The galán started as a dirty rotten shnook, and gradually, step by step, he transformed into the perfect man. Each step was a very specific change (stop drinking, stop lying, etc.), and each came about because of a very specific incident. And the fatal flaw that caused his destruction from the very beginning, his love for his company above all else, was his very last flaw that he finally conquered. Gaitán (the writer) is a genius!


 

I could do without the obligitory rape that all these things have.

I'll allow an attempted rape but the "victim" will have taken self-defense classes at the Y and beats the tar out of the bad guy. Then she calls the cops and presses charges even if he's from a "good" family. She will not be bought off and will not back down. She won't believe any nonsense about how this will ruin HER reputation. She blogs about the whole experience and uses his real name and basically kicks butt.

Also she knows about such things as blogs and the internet. If she has suspicions about someone, she does like the rest of us and googles his name. Surely cyber-stalking (for a good cause) exists in Mexico.

kelly
 

Awesome, Kelly. I'd watch that!!