Caray, Caray!

Good work, Paquita.

We had to expect Ruben to start something and now he's finally done it. Amalia is so effing stupid she fell for his whole crock of trash talk and threats. Maria knew nothing for ages, only learning the truth 24 hours ago! She is in no danger, but Amalia needs this excuse to break them up.

I can't help but think that Justo is going along with this in order to avoid having Amalia be related to him. While Wendy defended Santos I'm sure she isn't sorry that this monkey wrench got thrown into the works. The way she tried to humiliate Maria in the restaurant was childish and nasty. Kudos to Justo for calling her out on that later.

Before anyone else beats me to it, I am astonished that this absurd ritual of asking a parent's permission to marry his/her adult daughter still happens. It is outdated and offensive. Maria is an adult, for Heaven's sake.

Of course we can expect Oscar to continue to pursue Maria, baby or no baby. The only good thing about that is that he is also likely to try to protect her from Ruben.

Good grief, could Concho be Susanito's sperm donor?
 

Paquita- Thanks for giving us all the highlights, without going into all the painful details.

I felt it was safe to peek in on this tn last night, since I read Jantos and Maria had made up. Yay! I figured we’d get some nice romantic scenes. But those scenes at the restaurant, with snobby Wendy, were painful. (Shouldn’t both pregnant ladies be going easy on the wine, anyway?) As were the scenes with Amalia being manipulated by Ruben. At least she didn’t admit to Ruben that Jantos is back.

Carolina- I just read your late comment on yesterday’s recap, and I think it’s worthwhile to mention here: “I thought JA was just a teensy bit manipulative when told Coloso to call the cops and he threatened to turn himself in. It was a show for Maria, and it made her cave, just like in AB, Daniel's threat to turn himself in made Camila cave after she wouldn't forgive him for his Big Lie, which was basically the same as JAntos' Big Lie. I missed the discussion last week about JA's lying v. Daniel's lying, and I have a few things to say about it :), but it's too late tonight. Our hero JAntos can manipulate, though. I've noticed that before. And he's sneaky about it. Daniel manipulated, too, but he was more upfront.”

Very good points about both guys using a bit of manipulation to get their ladies to finally give in. Except, Dan made his decision to turn himself in without telling Camila. It was Osvaldo who spilled the beans to Camila and she rushed right over to scold Dan and to beg him not to do it. It was THEN that he turned on the manipulation to push her over the edge to forgive him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bfQL0zvd4w

I’m fine with both these galans using a bit of manipulation to get their women to forgive them. They had both already come totally clean, apologized, begged, pleaded, given their best puppy-dog eyes, and even given the ladies their space. Nothing else worked.

I do have a problem with the fact that Maria was willing to believe (or at least say out loud to everyone) that Jantos was really guilty. Even at the height of her anger, Camila believed in Dan’s innocence and even immediately joined the Scoobies (as a hostile member) to help prove his innocence. I think she should be beg Jantos forgiveness for that.

 

Great work Paquita!

AMALIA NEEDS AN ANVIL! I have never wanted an anvil as much as for her.
Justo should have told her to shut her mouth with or without her consent this marriage will take place and punto. At least Maria didn't just bowed her head and did what her mother told her to do but stood up for their lurrve! As she should!

I'm not against this whole formally asking for the bride's hand, it is a nice tradition and a beautiful memory later on. Over here in most cases this is as it is a tradition, not really asking for permission and I don't think there are many cases where the bride and groom hadn't had a longer or shorter relationship already, maybe cohabbed together for a while and just decided to tie the knot still there is a formal asking from the parents.

Wendy was nasty, what is this with TN's and social status? I hate this. If somebody comes from a modest financial background, and "lower" social circles it has to be looked down by ppl how think themselves "better" ??
Which world are you live in ppl?!!
 

I think it's a nice old tradition too, but I get why the context and the history of it (brides not being able to decide for themselves) might bother some people.

Did Jantos ever explain how he intended to marry Maria, when they were engaged the first time, under his false name? I assume he must have decided to tell her the truth before they walked down the aisle, but when was he intending to do that? That's the only thing that bugs me about his "deception." Just like Dan sleeping with Camila before he knew for sure they weren't cousins really bugged me.

 

Paquita:

Thanks for this wonderful, great recap.

I too agree with what Vivi and irisz79 said about the asking for the hand in marriage as a tradition.

It's too bad Amalia is so bamboozled by Rueben. I'm not sticking up for Amalia, but I can see why she is so worried for her daughter being with a fugitive, but more than that the Godfather, which Amalia and Maria have no idea about. The attempted getting rid of JAntos part. That's the real danger. The inepto cops only had JAntos in custody for all of five minutes. And Rueben is in that up to his eyeballs!

I can't stand Wendy the snobby beyotch! Poor Maria and trying to wind that spaghetti around her fork and got a huge clump! I am glad JAntos helped her out there and Justo being disgusted with Wendy is right on!

I too wonder if Susanito is Concho's son. Wouldn't that be a hoot! Seems ole Concho has gotten around! Who knew! I wonder if Mancia ever sang, or was a Saucy Wench back in the day? I hope they explore this storyline so we can see how that came about.
 

I don't think Concho is Susanito's dad because Mancia would've had a fit if Susano was working at JNTR with his dad Concho.

Plus, Mancia doesn't seem like Concho's type. While it's been said that Concho was in love with Amalia (prim, elegant), he's been juggling his wife Lourdes, who is flashy & buxom, and Mirna, who is alluring.

Mancia looks a hot mess with the scarves, the jewelry etc. I don't believe for one hot second Concho ever would have gone near her, much less had a child with her.

Wendy really has no standing to be uppity re: Maria, since Wendy is a baby momma whose baby daddy was a 2 bit criminal. Maria >>>>> Bruno.

Amalia will try every trick and game to break up Jantos & Maria. Did Maria call her out on telling Jantos he could come around, now changing her story? And it's funny that Amalia is subservient to Ruben but didn't appear to be to Justo. I think Justo's rank >>>>> Ruben.


 

Doesn't Amalia see that Ruben is a ghoul? We know by looking at him that he's a predator.

Somebody better tell Justo that Maria is pregnant so he can protect her from Ruben. I stand on my earlier assessment of what he would do if he knew about her being pregnant.

Justo far outranks Ruben, who would do well to be afraid of him.

As soon as Maria knows that Ruben has stuck his nose in this she should be calling Amalia out on her stupidity.
 

While Wendy clearly thought Maria was nothing but an insignificant naco Amelia proved that she was. Here she ha a distinguished family in her hovel and does she offer them some tea or even a seat? No, she makes them all stand around in that painful group. Such a contrast when she always asks Ruben to sit and offers him something. She couldn't not have made her loathing of Santos clearer if she had worn a sign.

Don't think Santos was manipulative with the call the cops thing. Hr had said before he went looking for Isa that when he came back Coloso could make the call. He did exactly what he said he would do. He is also sick of the whole situation and wants it over as he had been headed to the police when Fernando stopped.

Have fun with the next epi's I'm flying off to a wedding and am pretty sure the hotel won't have Univision. DRAT!
 

Thank you Paquita--This was another roller-coaster ride. Those avances prepared us for the dippy-down but the lovey-dovey uppy-up scenes were blissful. Thank you for making sense (and I use that lightly) of it all.

We've discussed before about women holding their bellies when the fetus is still only a speck, but I thought Jorge Alfredo's (as he is choosing to be called) hand on Maria's stomach while they cuddled was very sweet (and Mejia made sure we all saw that).

THE RESTAURANT scene: Excuse me, but, #1) the waiter was WRONG in offering Maria the taste test. I'm sure she did not order the bottle of wine in the first place. He should have known better and gone to the person who ordered it. Even when we are 4 women dining, the one who orders a bottle usually gets the taste test. It was a Mejia contrived situation to make Maria feel inadequate.

And, #2) agree, Paquita, Spaghetti in a fancy restaurant? And is Mejia trying to tell us that no one in the working class has ever served spaghetti or seen it in humbler restaurants? Give me a break, pasta is pasta. It's not all tacos and enchiladas.

Too bad Maria didn't have an opportunity to have taken some lessons from Tobias OR watched Pretty Woman or PEAM to see what not to do. I guess they don't serve escargot at JNTR, but Maria could have gracefully kept her mouth shut and at least tasted one.

I'm fed up with Amalia. Again, it's not Angelica's fault. It's the way she's been written. I wonder how many takes it took for her to get those words out without laughing. >>Don't put that ring on Maria's finger, I won't allow it.

OK, so asking for a hand in marriage it's a nice tradition--but, it goes back to the days when many brides had been arranged for between families, doweries were required and the brides were generally underage (by today's standards). Today's brides have usually been on their own for awhile, and sometimes the family doesn't meet the intended until shortly before the wedding.

However, Justo was a bit too hasty and pushy for la pedida de mano. It took Maria by surprise and JA, too. They should have been the ones to put the brakes on the seemed urgency.

Yes, invite them to dinner, yes, humiliate Wendy with their humble abode and most excellent cooking skills, yes, let Justo meet the younger girls and find out what their aspirations are...I could go on...but above all sat calmly and discussed JA's legal options, showing how his family is now behind him.

Justo caved to Amalia too quickly for my sensibilities. It looks as if it's going to be Marialfredo against the world--he can't even rely on his own father any more.

 

Decie girl--I'm totally with you on the hospitality issue--it did seem strange for them to be standing around, but it was Justo that said, let's get right down to business, here's what we're here for, ta-da, let me tell you the history of THE ring!!

Also with you on the phone call. I remember when he promised Coloso that he could call the cops as soon as Isa was found. He reminded Coloso that he *is* a man of his word, so call them, ya.

I'll be away, incommunicado, for a couple of weeks myself without Uni, but no hotel room for me, Decie.

 

Anita and Decie Girl:

Maybe Amalia thinks that Justo and his family are all criminals. She probably thinks that if one of them is a criminal like Jorge supposedly is, maybe Wendy and Justo are too. Does she even know what Justo does for a living? I too think she was rude in not offering any tea or coffee or a seat for that matter. That is the supreme height of rudeness. She probably wanted them gone y pronto! I still don't see how she is so stupid in trusting Rueben some shyster lawyer when she has got a diplomat in her parlor. I hope the egg sticks to her face once she finds out who and what Rueben really is!
 

Well, Jantos can NOT get legally married to Maria under "Jorge Alfredo Vargas." He can marry Maria under "Santos Martinez de la Garza"* but that would tip off the authorities in both countries.

So Jantos & Maria will have to pump their brakes regarding marriage until he gets his situation cleared up.

I don't think Justo can't be relied on. Justo is practical, he wants to see the receipts. He already knows that Maria had doubts about Santos' innocence and he got to see up close and personal the reason WHY Maria is having doubts.

Justo may figure now is not the time to rock Amalia's boat, especially when she can call the police and have Jantos picked up at any time, separating Jantos & Maria forever.
 

I think Amalia knows that Justo, Jantos & Wendy are upper class people and I think that may have set her off even more.....think about it:

Amalia knew from observing Jantos' hands that he was not a mechanic, but from a higher social class than she;

Amalia observed from watching Jantos tutor Isa on math that he was educated;

They see on TV that Jorge Alfredo = Santos Martinez de la Garza, rich criminal on the run;

Jantos confesses to Maria & his family that he is a millionaire, betrayed by his friends

Now this millionaire's family, dressed in elegant clothing, whipping out heirloom diamond rings shows up on her doorstep to ask for Maria's hand in marriage. (Remember, Ana saw the picture of Santos in a suit and wondered what the real deal was with him b/c people like the Barrio Crew don't wear elegant suits like the upper classes do....the only 2 Mexican based characters on this show who wear suits are Ruben & Fabian)

A millionaire from a rich, upper class family is not likely to stay in the hood with his pregnant bride. He's going to whisk the bride away to HIS world.

Amalia is rejecting the entire Martinez de la Garza family because they can whisk Maria & her baby into a world she & her people know nothing about.

Even if Maria & Jantos break up and he's whisked off to jail for life, Maria's BABY has rights. Justo will not let that baby want for anything and I doubt Justo would let Maria & his grandchild stay in the hood. If Jantos died right now, Jantos' inheritance would go to Maria's baby. Maybe Amalia hasn't thought that far ahead, but in her mind she needs to reject Jantos & his family to hold on to Maria.
 

Literary note: Observing Scarlett's hands was how Rhett knew she was broke & trying to scam him for money (when she wore the green dress made out of her mother's curtains to visit him in the jail).

A lady of leisure wouldn't have had the rough, tanned hands Scarlett had. She would've had soft hands. That's how he knew she was lying and that's how Amalia knew Jantos was lying about being a mechanic b/c his hands were too soft and elegant to have been doing mechanic work.

So if Amalia is that observant, then she observed that Justo & Wendy were of an upper class. She didn't offer them anything to eat, drink or a place to sit down because she hates Jantos & wants to get rid of him and everything connected to him.
 

Anon207--Miss your lists from AB, this is a pretty good one. Didn't think of the actually marriage, but the ring ceremony was for them to become formally committed, or engaged. They don't need papers for that but it is something else they could have talked about calmly around the table. But you are so right in Amalia's dislike for Jorge Alfredo and now his whole family which will be the driving force for the next few episodes. She will feel supremely justified if he *is* caught and jailed (even if it is only temporary).

Why oh why are Derecho and Lusty still after him and convinced he is part of a bigger ring of criminals. Hasn't Justo kept them up with what he's uncovered?
 

Thank you, Paqutia. What an action packed episode and you covered everything.

I would have like to have seen Maria remind her mom of all the good things JA has done for their family, and all the money he spent. It would certainly give a more balanced picture of how he has behaved since he met them than the one-sided picture that Amalia painted.

I thought JA’s family was going to have dinner there. Didn’t Maria tell her mom she was going to cook a nice dinner? I thought that maybe Amalia didn’t know what the plan was for the evening at all, but they were standing around for the ceremony part and would be sitting down to eat shortly. And I agree that Santos can’t legally marry at present anyhow, but I think the lovebirds just want to be officially engaged. I believe that Justo is solidly on JAntos’ side and he will come through for him. He’s a fact based kind of guy. I hope he looks into the legal questions and discovers that Ruben was pulling one over on Amalia. That would discredit Ruben and undermine Amalia’s objection to the engagement in one fell swoop.

Mexico has a lot of quaint customs. I am not offended by the tradition of asking for a woman’s hand in marriage, and the age of the bride and groom have nothing to do with it. Marriage doesn’t mean the same thing there as it does for us. Here, for the most part, it is two individuals joining together, but in Mexico, where families are everything, it is much more of a joining of families, and that custom is an important step in that process. The status of women in general is less equal than in our country (with lots of variety in both), but I always try not to judge other cultures. Not good, not bad, just different. :)

DCG, I think JA was being both true to his word because he was fed up and, as I said, a teensy bit manipulative. At the same time, he was also sticking it to Coloso by making a big, public deal about it, with the unspoken message of ‘lookie here, I am keeping my word, unlike you, turd face’. So, yes, he was being honorable, but he was also exploiting the situation on several levels.

Vivi, it’s always so nice when you can join us – you and your amazing memory, I should say. I had forgotten the Oswaldo part of Dan-n-Cam’s reconciliation, but I do remember that when Dan saw that tiny crack in Camila’s defenses, he just wiggled his way in. I’m also fine with both of these guys doing what they did. There is such a thing as too much manipulation, but IMO we haven’t seen that yet. Nevertheless, each incident is being duly noted. ;)

I just watched that clip you linked to, and I sure do miss those two. They were so normal and had such great chemistry. JA&M’s love scenes are just painful to watch half the time. He hardly ever looks in her eyes and they say such ridiculous things to each other and they are usually in these weird, awkward looking positions. I thought the snuggling on the couch last night looked really uncomfortable, myself. When they are facing each other, she’s usually got her elbows in his chest instead of having her arms around him like a normal person. It’s weird. Dan&Cam’s bodies just seemed to fit together so well and they had a fantastic sense of humor and playfulness. JA&M both need to lighten up. And don’t even get me started on Camila’s maturity, intelligence, and ability to understand and control her emotions compared to Maria. I think it’s pretty obvious that they are a million miles apart.

Anita, agree with you on both points about the restaurant. I also thought that Justo was driving the situation last night, almost to the point of pushiness. He did seem like the typical successful business person, though, who likes to be in charge. Totally agree that JA should have slowed him down.


 

I am not at all clear on the actual legal danger that Maria might be in. She has known that JA was a fugitive for some time now, but she wasn’t speaking to him for most of that time. The crimes that he is wanted for occurred in a foreign country. Interpol is looking for him, apparently, and Mexico and the US have long worked together to capture American fugitives who try to hide out there. If she were in the US, American laws against aiding and abetting would apply, but American laws don’t apply to people outside the country. So what Mexican laws has she broken? Is it a crime to harbor someone who broke a law in another country? And then there is the matter of how just last night, Amalia was scoffing at JA for concealing the truth from Maria to protect her, but now she is going all tiger mom to protect her from that same danger. Oh dear. I am looking for sense in all the wrong places. My beanie must have slipped a bit. I’d better just stick with Paloma’s motto: If they say it on TV, it has to be true.
 

Anon207, you are hitting the bullseye again.

What is bothering me in all this is that Justo doesn't yet know that Maria is pregnant. If he knew that he would have not taken this crap from Amalia. He'd fight like a lion to protect Maria and the baby.

He also needs to know about Reuben and the connexion between him and Giuliano. Maria has seen Giuliano in Reuben's office and I believe Santos is aware that there is a connexion even though he was blindfolded and escaped in the dark after that recent attempt on his life. I hope Giuliano's name comes up in their conversation tonight.

Justo must have a Mexican residence and can hire lots of bodyguards. He seemed to like Maria right away and would like any woman his son would love.

All her mistakes in handling the relationship are due to past inexperience. These are mistakes Camila Monterde had the experience to avoid.
 

Carolina, I don't think Maria is in any legal danger. She knew nothing of the crime until 24 hours ago in the episode. It's the US legal authorities who would charge her if they can extend jurisdiction, but I don't think they can. Justo's status as a diplomat complicates this issue.

Reuben was taking advantage of Amalia's ignorance of the law and her gullibility. I don't think he's done his homework on the rest of the picture because if he did he'd realize that Justo's position takes away any real risk to Santos and Maria.

Maria is far more at risk from Reuben than from the Godfather.
 

Santos knows that Giuliano came to Mexico to meet with Ruben because Arnold told him that when he bumped into him on the street. That's also how he knows that Giuliano was not responsible for his kidnapping. Arnold didn't know anything about it.

I think that Ruben might just be blowing smoke. That female lawyer he took Amalia to was the same one who almost hired Maria, some time ago. He had a satisfied look or smirk or something that made me think she was just telling Amalia what he told her to say.

I also think that she isn't in any real danger, but the legal details are remain murky to me. For one thing, I don't know that you could be guilty of aiding and abetting if the person you help is innocent. I thought it only applied if the person was guilty and you knew it, like they told you or you witnessed the crime, or something really clear like that. I'm trusting Don Justo to sort this out.
 

UA--I'm sure you are correct about the "bad guys." When Maria barged in on the "meeting" with Ruben and Giuliano, she was introduced to him. We all remember that he leered at her and Ruben promptly tore up the agreement. So she would only remember the name vaguely and assume a legitimate business deal.

Does Ruben know about the Giuliano-Santos connection? We know Santos thought Giuliano was behind the kidnapping, but since he didn't know where he was, I don't think he connected it with Ruben. Doesn't he just see Ruben as a perverted rival for Maria who has spent money on her family in the past to make her indebted to him?
 

Just because Arnold didn't know about who was behind the kidnapping, doesn't mean Giuliano wasn't, or that Santos crossed him off the list of possible perpetrators.

Ruben definitely coached the licenciada ahead of time for her answer. I caught him forming words and nodding as she continued with her "knowledge" about encumbrimientos, standing behind Amalia.
 

Anita, when JA told Fernando about his convo with Arnold, he said that he was sure OJ wasn't behind the kidnap/murder attempt. At this point, JA doesn't know who kidnapped him.

And, no, I don't think Ruben knows anything about the JA-OJ connection.

And apparently no one knows that when JA was kidnapped and in that SUV and there was that road rage incident, that it was with the mariachi mobile AND that Coloso put the license number in his cell phone. I hope he didn't delete in.
 

I am glad that you also saw some funny business between Ruben and the lady lawyer.

Don Justo to the rescue!
 

Maria should definitely remember that pervy leer and maybe the first name because it wouldn't be a common one.
 

I just had to take a peek on wikipedia and I was using the wrong term. It isn't 'aiding and abetting', it is 'accessory after the fact', and you DO have to know that a crime was committed to be guilty. Also, in many countries, someone who helped his or her spouse cannot be accused of this crime, so if JA&M find a way to marry, Maria is off the hook. That is, if it also works that way in Mexico. Interesting, no?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessory_(legal_term)#Knowledge_of_the_crime
 

I wonder, because she helped him before they would have been married.

She knew his life was in danger, but not that he was accused of a crime.

Under US law he is still innocent until proven guilty no matter what Derecho and Lusty want to believe. A good forensic computer geek could trace the electronic paths and ISPs of those money transfers and thereby prove that Santos had no involvement.

And Mike, who also needs to get out of prison.
 

Actually, I realized after my last post that she is off the hook either way. She doesn't know or even think he is guilty; it isn't a crime to help an innocent person. You have to KNOW that they are guilty to be guilty of accessory after the fact.

However, the writers of this TN appear to be ignoring the innocent until proven guilty part of US law, and I am sure they will take liberties with any aspect of Mexican law that they feel like as well.

But the point of this discussion, for me at least, is that Justo could track down this info pretty easily. And if he does that, he will discredit Ruben completely, calling into question Ruben's motives and honesty. And he will undermine Amalia's reason for opposing the marriage, removing that obstacle for JA&M. That would be a nifty trick to see him pull off and I would LOVE to see it happen.
 

I would, too. Reuben deserves to have the rug pulled out from under him and I don't care who does it.

Wendy needs a gag. Yesterday.
 

A gag would be good.

Or maybe she should be framed for a crime she didn't commit, urged to run away by people she trusts, betrayed and condemned by her family, beat up a few times, and find herself friendless, homeless, and penniless in a city far from home. I think that would do her a world of good.
 

I suspect she would prefer that Maria be the same shallow, selfish, trust fund brat that she is. Ten bucks says that when she finds out that Maria is pregnant she will accuse her of trying to trap Santos.
 

Sorry, but I think you'd win that bet. :)
 

Carolina--If a husband and wife are committing crimes together, they can both be accused. One cannot be forced to testify against the other. Of course if only one partner, say, was scamming and defrauding folks, and the other didn't know anything about it, officials would have to investigate before deciding not to charge the "innocent" one.

Can't wait for tomorrow's discussion. Boy was I surprised by the episode. UA you were so right about Wendy, but not about the trapping part--unless that is still a weapon she will keep in reserve to use in the future.
 

Carolina--Thanks for reminding me about the Fer-JA conversation about Arnold et seq Giuliano.

For me, though, JA could have still just been speculating in his own mind about who could have been behind the sequester and he eliminated OJ based on Arnold's statement. I don't think he had any other proof that OJ wasn't involved.

Didn't he see or hear OJ's voice while he was blindfolded, though?
 

But, of course we all know it was Ruben and not OJ. I was just trying to see into JA's thought processes.
 

Anita, as I recall, he seemed really certain from Arnold's reaction that OJ was not behind it. Personally, I wouldn't have been that sure, but he was. For what that's worth.

He did see and hear OJ when he was in the hallway and Ruben was inexplicably giving his honored international guests a tour of the basement.

He saw the newspaper report of the death of the guy that Ruben offed for not succeeding in killing him. I just rewatched that epi and JA was with Fer at a newstand. He saw the article, said 'hey, that's one of the guys who kidnapped me', got upset, crumpled up the paper, then the vendor complained, so he paid for it, and then he said to Fernando something like Ruben is an asshat. Now how he connected Ruben to the guy's death or how he recognized the dead guy when they wore masks around him, I have no clue. But that is what happened.

He also had an ear worm of the stripper songs for days after he came home and complained to Maria about it.