Friday, October 11, 2013
Weekend Discussion: Typecasting and Its Long-Term Effects
Do you automatically assume that a super-attractive woman is a devoradora? That a handsome alpha male is dynamite in the boudoir? Or that a basso-profundo voice indicates sinister intent?
Sabine Moussier |
Jorge Salinas |
Cesar Evora |
Roberto Ballesteros usually is a pretty sleazy villain, not unlike baritone George Gagnidze:
Labels: weekend
As for Fernando, I would have said yes to being a bad guy, but after his rather lackluster turn as a comedic actor in PEAM, not sure he would pull off being a really good baddie. Cesar, as you point out, is the a master at switching from a good guy with a heart of gold to being just hateful in the most convincing manner...not sure I see Colunga doing the same.
I could see Jorge Salinas as the villain in a TN. He has that serious, devilish attitude that I do think he could pull it off. Frankly, the more I think about it, that would be cool to see. Handsome actors can be awesome villains in the right role.
TN producers I think like to fulfill the stereotypes. How much did those of us who watched him LOVE Brandon Paniche as Patricio in Refugio? Heck, we loved him better than Gabriel. But he and some others I can think of aren't those body-building heroes the producers want as the leads, so they will be regulated to 2nd string. Erick Elias can act circles around some of the top billers, but he's not the traditional look. Honestly, I'm getting tired of "the look" getting the lead and putting up with so-so acting, and the real professionals are the 2nd tier performers.
Daisynjay
Jarifa
This is a great topic! I too am watching those two TNs you mentioned on Unimas.
I really like Cesar Evora and all roles he's done. I have seen him now as a good guy in CI and also in the two morning TNs and also as a bad guy, AB, Tempestad, and I have also seen his Bloopers reels on Youtube. I think he ought to try a comedy! I really like his laugh so much, he is so funny. I know he did Guapos and part of that was funny, but I'd really like him as a semi villan, redeemable, in a comedy.
I'd like to FC as a villain. He is disappointing in PEAM. I thought he'd have more comedy chops, but meh not so much. I think he'd be great as a villain with the looks he gives.
Eduardo Yanez would also make a great villain. I have liked all the roles I have seen him in, he has played bad guys in the States on TV shows, but not in a TN. I also think he'd be great in a comedy.
I'd like to see Enrique Rocha as a good guy for once. I've only seen him as a bad guy, even in comedy, UFCS. I bet he'd make a great AARP Babe Magnet ; )
I like what Helena Rojo has done, she has been a good person and a villain. She is much like CE that way.
I'd like to see Jessica Coch as a good girl. I've only seen her as a villana. Also Altair J, would make a great good girl with issues, let's say.
I'd like to see Silva Navarro as a bad girl and Zuria Vega too, I think they could both pull it off.
DaisyNJay:
I so agree with you about the second tier performers. Especially for PEAM they are the heart of that TN and not the leads : )
PEAM is a remake of a Columbian TN called El Secretario.
Hasta Que El Dinero Nos Separe is a remake of Haste Que La Plata Nos Separe.
The lead men in the Columbian versions aren't that great looking.
Cynderella
Otto Sirgo (as I pointed out before) is typically cast as a man of authority and class. He's the AARP babe magnet for now. I think most of his characters have been decent guys (of course he doesn't have the voice of a Mephistopheles).
Marcelo Cordoba is an interesting case, too. He should be a galan, but doesn't want it. I wonder why.
UA: I think some actor's don't like to play good, because it's boring for them.
The problem is often in the writing. It's probably a challenge to make a good character interesting, so I'm glad that our Jorge got such a great challenge in LQNPA. Very Bronte/DuMarier of those writers to make Rogelio a good man with very big issues.
He is going to do another play that will come to the US.
http://www.peopleenespanol.com/article/fernando-colunga-regresa-al-teatro-y-quiere-hacer-de-villano
Hate to say, but you look at some of the recent TN's and the writers can often make the hero so bland or one-note. Who would want to play that if you are serious about your craft?
And I agree that playing evil or nasty can be so much more fun. It takes that right blend in most TN's of playing a dual role---playing someone who looks likes an ok-person to a lot of characters but who is really evil. You get to do two roles in one character. Definitely a fun challenge. Could be why some who get to be the villains don't mind the stereotyping. They are having more fun. I think of Sabine M. or Letitia Calderon--they can just chew up the screen sometimes when they get into their roles. Who wants to be sweet and weepy when you can do that?
Daisynjay
Carlos
Here's Colunga as a villain in Mas Allá del Puente:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmpxiN5eh-g
Altair, I'm afraid, will stay stuck in the same bad girl roles like Chantal Andere and Laisha Wilkins. Chantal has accepted that she will be typecasted but Laisha keeps trying though she keeps being rejected as a good girl, unless the part is small. Karla Álvarez also suffered from the same typecasting an is also only able to play good in less important characteres. Margarita Magaña seems to be that way too but she's gotten some nice girl roles here and there.
Besides Chantal (who always got saddled with bad girl roles) the others got nice girls in their youth, during their time making teen novelas. It was during their transition to more adult roles that they were sent to villainhood.
The executives are the ones behind the typecasting. Sometimes some producers want to take a chance on some actors but they are the ones with the last word.
It's easier for actors that got popular playing nice roles to take a chance to play a bad one than for the reverse to happen. César Évora, Lucero and Leticia Calderón are examples of actors that have played both types with success. They have now the freedom to go back and forth between heroes and villains.
It's also easier for older actors in general. At that point is seems like it doesn't matter much what kind of image they project because their long trajectories make them already familiar and accepted by the public.
An interesting case is Laura Flores, she got popular in her youth playing an Altair Jarabo type of character in El Derecho de Nacer but she also played the nice best friend in her next novelas and later she played some nice and not so nice secondary characters only to have her absolute break out role as a psycho villain in Clarissa. Then, rather than continuing as a villain she instead played leading roles in most of her next telenovelas and some small but memorable parts in other very popular ones (as Empress Carlota in the historical El Vuelo del Águila for example).
Nowadays Flores can go back and forth beteen villains and good characters, like going from Netty in Llena de Amor to Roselena in Refugio. Besides that streak of heroines in the late 90's, she's the one actress I can think that has managed to keep the most versatile career in telenovelas.
Jarocha
There are surely hundreds of new and young faces, cute and fugly (depending of the beholder) that could be starring right now and we only get to see the same boring 5 faces over and over.
What a nightmare!
Nanette: Víctor García is not average, he is and looks more ugly with that stupid haircut with the bangs.
There should be a clause in the contracts, so if an actor see that his/her character is changing because the producer thinks the TN needs more stupidity and laughless jokes, they could leave the set and sue. When they read the scripts and the plots are already a trainwreck is their fault if they sign or not. BUT if they show you one thing and after you sign they start making changes that stupefy your character, sue them, Ana Colchero did it to Azteca and won!
Enough with doing what they want without consequences.
Segio Sendel seems to play mostly bad guys or at least selfish ones. I have seen him as a galan in his earlier years. I could see him as a rogue who turns around for love of a woman.
I've already mentioned that I am a relative newbie to the TNs. A friend had recorded "Destilando Amor" and let me see it recently. I loved Sergio Sendel. I can definitely see why he is cast as a "bad" guy, but he excited me more than the galan (who I know has a huge following here!). Not that Yanez was uninteresting or a lousy actor, it's just that Sendel intrigued me more. I love his eyes and could easily see him as a diamond in the rough galan.
I'm sure you all can help me here, but one thing that I find confusing is why a relative newcomer is given a role based upon having won something (contest, etc) in real life when they have NO acting skills whatsoever.
The female lead in "La Tempestad" does nothing for me. Granted, this is her first acting gig (from what I gather), but what does winning a beauty contest give her preference over more talented newcomers who have already demonstrated potential? Is the acting gig part of the prizes that are won in Mexican beauty contests?
How do the established actors, in particular, the really strong actors, feel about someone like this being a lead in the story?
I find the female lead in "La Tempestad" to be so boring that I watch the show infrequently and find I enjoy reading about the story on the daily recaps.
I agree with those who think that Altair J is a genuine talent. To me, someone like her would have been much more interesting as the lead in LT, but I'm glad we have her in MPV!
Thanks, Urban!
Fatima
For me, an actor is truly good in his profession if he could portray whatever kind of character is thrown on him. This is why I admire Cesar Evora. True he is so bad in AB to name a few but isn't he adorable and fantastic as Octavio in Entre El Amor y Odio and the next one where he is a priest= EL Privilegio is it?
I truly respect him. I wish he could have some more good roles and let go of that goatee and moustache for a while.
I am going to stick up for XN the lead in Tempestad. Have you seen her portrayal of her "twin" Mags yet? The two are as different as night and day. This may be her first gig, but she is certainly bringing it. I like her and want to see her in future TNs. By the way she was Ms Universe of 2010 : )
" Granted, this is her first acting gig (from what I gather), but what does winning a beauty contest give her preference over more talented newcomers who have already demonstrated potential? Is the acting gig part of the prizes that are won in Mexican beauty contests?"
What happens is that many women who want to initiate a career in Television join these type of contests to get in touch with the network and producers and facilitate their beginings as an actress or tv personality. Some already have a little talent or experience.
In reality, beauty contests are very unpopular in Mexico. Ratings for these shows are low and Miss Universe isn't even aired on either of Televisa's two major channels but on channel 9, Galavisión, which is their third (and in some places their fourth) watched channel, much below channels 2 and 5. So, winning a contest doesn't automatically make you popular.
What happened with Ximena was that she won Miss Universe in 2010 (the first win since 1991), the year when we celebrated the bicentenial of Mexico's independence and everybody was feeling patriotic, a beautiful Miss Universe was the icing in the cake. This gave the impression to Salvador Mejía that Ximena would be bankable as a telenovela star.
Most beauty contestants (at least in the last two decades) start with smaller roles and then move on to bigger ones. It usually takes them years to get their first lead and it is extremely unusual for them to be offered a role just for winning the contest (I can't remember another instance where this has happened right now).
Yadhira Carrillo, for example, took 12 years from her start in a beauty contest to her first real leading role. She first took two years studying at Televisa's school and then ten doing smaller roles that became more and more important as time went on.
Of the recent ones, Jaqueline Bracamontes began working at Televisa as a sports news reporter, so she endeared herself to the public there. Then she started doing smaller roles in telenovelas and soon after she got an important secondary role in the hit Rubí she got elevated to leading status in Heridas de Amor. It took her 7 years from her win at Nuestra Belleza to her first lead.
Blanca Soto didn't start at Televisa but she has done a few movies (including a romantic comedy with Jaime Camil) and she was supposedly successful in Univision with Eva Luna which later ran at Galavisión here. So, she was acquired by Televisa as an experienced leading actress already. It took her 13 years from her participation in Nuestra Belleza to Eva Luna and 15 to her first lead in Televisa in PEAM.
The closest catastrophe in ratings for an ex beauty queen's first time leading role was Alicia Machado in Infierno en El Paraíso. She had acted before but only in her native Venezuela, so audiences in Mexico were not familiar to her as an actress.
Machado turned is now well liked though. I'm sure Navarrete will be able to do that too, she just needs to take some acting classes and find a good role.
Blanca Soto had good luck thanks to Colunga, so she has that. But, I don't think she's a safe bet for a successful lead yet. At least over here, she's better known in the US.
Jarocha
Jarocha
We will see if Jackie Bracamontes comes back to novelas after the birth of her little girl,
Daniela Castro has done comic , heroic and villainous roles, as has Daniela Romo. Both very versatile actresses.
Thanks, UA, for another great topic.
Beauty is no guarantee of talent in anything, either. That beauty pageants are the usual entree to acting makes me ill.
Another typecasting thing that bugs me is that being a child star usually sets up a roadblock to future sex symbol status. Pedro Fernandez is an example of that.
Next to him even Juan Manuel Avila look like Mr Charming.
Why is Televisa still trying to convince that he is a ''galán''?
He sings, but he belongs in the radio!
Thank you so very much for this excellent explanation of the status of things with regard to beauty pageant winners who go on to become actresses.
I think Ximena probably feels incredibly fortunate and lucky to have garnered this lead position given that her work history certainly does not compare to pageant winners who have worked their way up the ladder.
I really appreciate you putting her win as Ms Universe in its proper perspective as it related to the national celebrations in Mexico. That certainly makes a lot of sense.
Cynderella and Madelaine, I can see why you like XN and respect your opinions. As Urban says, I'd like to see her in the future when she's had some acting lessons, etc.
Jarocha, given that Ximena has already started at the top, so to speak, where does she go from here? How would it "look" to have her take lesser roles in order to perfect her skills after having had this major lead role?
Also, do I understand correctly that Silvia Navarro auditioned for the lead in LT? To me, she is an excellent actress. XN is not in her class.
Jarocha, one last thing, I think it is FANTASTIC that beauty contests are very unpopular in Mexico!
Thank you so much, Jarocha!
Fatima
Then you have group B - these are the ex models, the beauty queens, the jocks, the pretty boys and people who go through Televisa type schools and are more than happy to play the same part over and over again. The problem that brings up is them aging and the public ends up with people like Yanez and Colunga and after QBA Salinas being cast in age inappropriate roles playing against actresses that are too young for them.
Televisa seems to be doing a good job of bringing new girls into the mix but not as well as with younger men who are slated for galan roles. They exist but not in the same numbers as the girls.
One of the worst problems from my point of view is that there is no original writing. Every novela on Televisa now is a remake and all the ones to follow are as well. There doesn't seem to be a drive to develop original material to challenge the actors. I also think that the producers pander to the public, casting the same actors over and over in what is essentially the same part. They know that throwing a Levy or Colunga in as the lead will bring the ratings they want but they risk the public getting bored.
Colunga may talk all he wants about wanting to play a heavy but I suspect he will never be cast as one especially at Televisa since it is unlikely that the public would accept him in that kind of part. I think a lot of actors are stuck the same way. It will be interesting to see how the new jamie Camil novela turns out since he has been cast as the antagonist.
As for a basso profundo's Evora and Juan Ferrer, they have somehow managed to escape true type casting and play wide ranging roles. I do suspect however that every time a villainous more mature man part comes up the producers automatically think of these two.
"In Soto's case, I think it also helps being the sister of the daughter in law of the producer... ;-"
Definitely. Nepotism also helps in getting roles although it doesn't help with the success of the novela. I tend to think PEAM's good ratings were mostly for Colunga's presence and a few well liked side characters, not Soto. I didn't personally care for it (or Colunga's turn in it) but we'll see how her career goes afterward.
Fatima:
"Jarocha, given that Ximena has already started at the top, so to speak, where does she go from here? How would it "look" to have her take lesser roles in order to perfect her skills after having had this major lead role?"
Well, it may look like a step down but given that before La Tempestad she had no experience whatsoever, I don't see it that way. It depends on her attitude and drive and the people and opportunities she finds in the way but even a nice side role on a novela with good ratings would be a good thing.
Going from reaching a lead and then step down to a series of side characters and finally managing to come back to leading is not unheard of. The latest examples: Ana Brenda Contreras and possibly África Zavala.
I think she could use some good acting lessons though. I am of the opinion that she's a bad actress, but she's new, she can improve. And who knows, maybe another producer for whatever reason will decide to give her another chance to lead sooner than we might think.
Jarocha
When she was invited to Perú or Chile, don't remember, she didn't complained.
What would people who has studied acting night and day for years feel
when they see the roles they should be playing are given to ''beauty queens'' and handsome and tall guys with no experience?
I complained about voice dubbing jobs being given to people like William Levy instead of professional voice artists, and I read that they do that even when it is more expensive to hire somebody without experience but with a selling name, because they wanted the name, not caring about the results.
So, I guess is all about the money. They don't care about scripts, audience, anything, and once the product is on air, they also change it at will without caring if people is able to keep up with the new schedules and all...
I think it is more fun to watch how mexican tv stations revolve around and around in an endless vicious cicle right until nobody watch what they do anymore than the products they make.
Pablo, also appreciate your comments. Thank you!
Fatima
I agree Altair should get a leading role, she seems too cuddly to really hate, and I think Blanca Soto could really chew the scenery as a villain, (I mean more than she is now as the heroine)
This man has galan written all over him. It was such an enjoyable move (English subtitles) with good music and excellent signing on Jaime's part. His English was excellent, btw.
It was a happy and, yes, some would say predictable, but I was just having so much fun with the Spanish and the music and scenes of the DF that I didn't care!
I loved the new Derbez film and think that Jaime's film was just so enjoyable. Hope all of you can get to see both of them.
Jaime has just been added to my list of take home galans (Salinas, Zepeda, Soler, and now Camil).
Fatima
Alegria
Fatima
Glad to hear that. I had read on a Latin Gossip site that he was going to be the antagonist which I though was odd. However I'm pretty sure a lot of people will be griping that he is too old for Zuria being 40 to her 24. MT wasn't much better age wise. I too am looking forward to this one as the current crop on both Televisa and Telemundo are leaving me cold. Marido pretty much jumped the shark for me when the dead husband returned and Theresa Christina brings annoying to new screeching levels.
Fernando Colunga did play a villain in Mas alla del Puente and Maria Mercedes there were two others as well. Women's stories of Real Life he played a villain there as well and Mujeres Egoistas. He was originally type cast as a villain in his beginning roles but after the performance done in Maria Mercedes they gave him a shot as the Leading man in Maria del Barrio. He has been in a lead role ever since. He would make a great villain I think.
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