Saturday, April 12, 2014
Weekend Discussion: Novelas en Ingles?
Is this a viable idea?
There were two unsuccessful attempts a few years ago to do English-language novelas by two of the smaller networks. They failed for two reasons:
1. Poor acting, possibly due to poor writing
2. Not ready for prime time in terms of gringo viewing habits
The writing was so poor I can't even remember the titles of the programs. I viewed two or three episodes of each and the acting was so bad I wondered whether those actors would ever work again. Also, the treatment of sex was nothing like in Televisa stories; it was more like middle-school kids tittering in locker rooms.
The other problem -- which neither network had bothered to think much about -- was that the majority of native English speakers in the US aren't accustomed to stripped programming in prime time. This would require an adjustment in behavior despite current home technology that enables time-shifted viewing. They would have been better off experimenting with this program genre in Late Fringe (11PM - 1AM EST).
So....
Assuming that these two problems could be solved to our satisfaction, do you think the telenovela format could work in English? If you think so, what story types would you see working? Can you suggest a novel, for example, that would work? I'll start.
For anyone who reads romance novels, Kathleen Woodiwiss' Shanna is a classic. It would have made an excellent novela de epoca if made back in the late 90s with Adrian Paul (Duncan MacLeod in Highlander) as its swashbuckling hero.
Of course, that would require a major budget and a little bit of help from our friends in Britain.
Anything else?
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If I remember correctly one of the nighttime soaps was "Wind on Water" starring Bo Derek.
http://variety.com/1998/tv/reviews/wind-on-water-1117487789/
http://variety.com/1998/tv/reviews/wind-on-water-1117487789/
Due to time and lack of interest, the only soap opera I've ever watched was Peyton Place. I started watching novelas in Spanish to help me learn the language. Although I still watch mainly for that reason, I've developed a liking for the actors and the plots. If these same novelas were in English I would not be interested in watching them. The reason being they are based on one time love and heartbreak that I lived through and outgrew in English decades ago.
I don't know, Urban. I really want to hear and learn Spanish, so I doubt that an English language novela would interest me.
I'm still hoping for a TN with a supernatural theme.
Fatima
I'm still hoping for a TN with a supernatural theme.
Fatima
Permalink posted by 
: Saturday, April 12, 2014 at 3:20:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, April 12, 2014 at 3:20:00 PM EDT
I suppose that one could consider Dallas, Dynasty, Falcon crest ,and those types of shows as English novelas. They were very successful shows.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, April 12, 2014 at 3:50:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, April 12, 2014 at 3:50:00 PM EDT
Put me down for no, not viable.
The TN stories are emotional; English is cool, Spanish is hot. Anglos just won't be able to pull it off. Ugh, like serving potato soup cold.
OK; then what about a Spanish TN with all the same ingredients and actors, just done in English?
Nah.
I have often thought while watching TNs that if it wasn't in Spanish it would not interest me at all. I think it would make it less challenging.
My friend is Spanish and I can't get her to watch them at all, she says, "too much drama for me!" I think it lacks the challenge of having to translate it in her head the way I have to.
Another of the reasons I love watching the TNs is the overdone drama, and they are fun to, well, satirize, as we do with the recaps.
A friend and I used to make fun of our mother's soap operas when we were children. What we do with the recaps to me is the adult version of that.
Now, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching them, and it doesn't mean the acting isn't good.
I am not sure, actually of the appeal, but I am sure it would be lost in English.
The TN stories are emotional; English is cool, Spanish is hot. Anglos just won't be able to pull it off. Ugh, like serving potato soup cold.
OK; then what about a Spanish TN with all the same ingredients and actors, just done in English?
Nah.
I have often thought while watching TNs that if it wasn't in Spanish it would not interest me at all. I think it would make it less challenging.
My friend is Spanish and I can't get her to watch them at all, she says, "too much drama for me!" I think it lacks the challenge of having to translate it in her head the way I have to.
Another of the reasons I love watching the TNs is the overdone drama, and they are fun to, well, satirize, as we do with the recaps.
A friend and I used to make fun of our mother's soap operas when we were children. What we do with the recaps to me is the adult version of that.
Now, that doesn't mean I don't enjoy watching them, and it doesn't mean the acting isn't good.
I am not sure, actually of the appeal, but I am sure it would be lost in English.
Thanks for coming up with a topic, UA. I kept checking the CarayCaray site today, hoping that you would.
I have never watched soap operas of any sort in English, neither daytime nor the night-time ones like Dallas or Falcon Crest. That wouldn't have been tolerated in our home; my mother dismissed all those programs with utter contempt as "silly stories". But I realized many years later that all sorts of very bright people, including Kurt Vonnegut, were enthralled by soap operas and watched them regularly. But too late for me.
I frequently find the intensity of the drama and suffering overwhelming in these telenovelas, and therefore take regular breaks during the run of a story. But I always come back, and always appreciate the language learning that goes on with each episode.
Most of all, I appreciate the many wide-ranging discussions that take place on this blog and the friendships I have made here.
Thank you for your part, UA in making CarayCaray such an interesting and rewarding place to visit week after week.
I have never watched soap operas of any sort in English, neither daytime nor the night-time ones like Dallas or Falcon Crest. That wouldn't have been tolerated in our home; my mother dismissed all those programs with utter contempt as "silly stories". But I realized many years later that all sorts of very bright people, including Kurt Vonnegut, were enthralled by soap operas and watched them regularly. But too late for me.
I frequently find the intensity of the drama and suffering overwhelming in these telenovelas, and therefore take regular breaks during the run of a story. But I always come back, and always appreciate the language learning that goes on with each episode.
Most of all, I appreciate the many wide-ranging discussions that take place on this blog and the friendships I have made here.
Thank you for your part, UA in making CarayCaray such an interesting and rewarding place to visit week after week.
OMG soap operas that last 75 years seem to me VERY uninteresting, however Sonny in General Hospital still looks cute as I channel surf. My Mom loved this soap but even she lost interest.
At least telenovelas have a beginning & an end of less than 200 episodes, so they are much better, more like a movie.
I would call Desperate Housewives a novela or soap & it was really good, but I even got tired of that.
At least telenovelas have a beginning & an end of less than 200 episodes, so they are much better, more like a movie.
I would call Desperate Housewives a novela or soap & it was really good, but I even got tired of that.
Thanks for the topic UA.
I would have to see the tn to know yes or no. The one I've heard that is being put in production, "Jane the Virgin," has a icky plot. The initial story was of a 16 yo who miraculously becomes pregnant and older man (30s) who is married falls for her.
The appeal of our tns are the different actors/actresses and, as others have mentions, learning Spanish and laughing with this great group. The writing and performers would make or break an English tn for me.
I would have to see the tn to know yes or no. The one I've heard that is being put in production, "Jane the Virgin," has a icky plot. The initial story was of a 16 yo who miraculously becomes pregnant and older man (30s) who is married falls for her.
The appeal of our tns are the different actors/actresses and, as others have mentions, learning Spanish and laughing with this great group. The writing and performers would make or break an English tn for me.
While I appreciate the hard work it takes to make a novela, and appreciate a number of novela actors--Cesar Evora, Maria Rubio, Mauricio Islas, Adela Noriega, Jorge Luis Pila and some others-- I only watch novelas to learn Spanish. I think most of them are corny and silly and wouldn't watch in English.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, April 12, 2014 at 9:23:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, April 12, 2014 at 9:23:00 PM EDT
Yeah - I also pretty much thought of Dallas, Dynasty, etc. as being the English language US equivalent as they were definitely dressed up for prime time as compared to daytime soaps.
But the US English language audience has been trained on weekly shows and I doubt that could be changed. The US content providers are just not set up for producing those kinds of shows with a huge number of episodes, even though at least the "seasons" are no longer so rigid with all the series now being produced for non-broadcast television.
For me too the language challenge makes it worth putting up with some of the silliness. There are only a very few I would watch in English.
My( late) mom was a HUGE Dallas fan, so remembering that show always makes me smile.
Thanks UA for the topic.
But the US English language audience has been trained on weekly shows and I doubt that could be changed. The US content providers are just not set up for producing those kinds of shows with a huge number of episodes, even though at least the "seasons" are no longer so rigid with all the series now being produced for non-broadcast television.
For me too the language challenge makes it worth putting up with some of the silliness. There are only a very few I would watch in English.
My( late) mom was a HUGE Dallas fan, so remembering that show always makes me smile.
Thanks UA for the topic.
Also, don't forget Grey's Anatomy and Ugly Betty. Here are two precise examples of how the telenovela genre works in US English versus Latin American Spanish. I think they show clearly how things have to be modified to work for the two diverse TV systems.
Corazon Abierto was a Columbian remake of Grey's Anatomy done in the full telenovela style - meaning way more episodes. It was outstanding and the first TN I ever watched! Later on Mexico made their own version, same name.
Ugly Betty was a US prime time remake of the original Columbian telenovela Yo Soy Betty, La Fea. This is soetimes considered the most successful TN of all time based on the huge number of remakes. Televisa also made their own version of the Columbian TN - la Bella Mas Fea.
Look up Fernando Gaitan some time - he is the genius behind the above, and ran the experiment below.
Desperate Housewives qualifies as an English language telenovela. They did try to make a Spanish version for Latin America, but it failed because they kept the weekly (once a week) format and that just didn't fly with the Latin American TV audience.
And how about Sex and the City - it pretty much works as a telenovela too.
Corazon Abierto was a Columbian remake of Grey's Anatomy done in the full telenovela style - meaning way more episodes. It was outstanding and the first TN I ever watched! Later on Mexico made their own version, same name.
Ugly Betty was a US prime time remake of the original Columbian telenovela Yo Soy Betty, La Fea. This is soetimes considered the most successful TN of all time based on the huge number of remakes. Televisa also made their own version of the Columbian TN - la Bella Mas Fea.
Look up Fernando Gaitan some time - he is the genius behind the above, and ran the experiment below.
Desperate Housewives qualifies as an English language telenovela. They did try to make a Spanish version for Latin America, but it failed because they kept the weekly (once a week) format and that just didn't fly with the Latin American TV audience.
And how about Sex and the City - it pretty much works as a telenovela too.
One of the sole reasons I watch novelas instead of General Hospital is because novelas have a beginning and end, and I find the the English soaps often get boring and leave the plot with nowhere to go. You can't time jump or speed up long term plot lines like pregnancy. So if a GOOD English novela is made with a dramatic plot, decent writing/acting, and limited run then I'd be all in. I doubt that combination will happen anytime soon though.
Cassandra G.
P.S. Besides, for English drama I just watch Revenge. It's like La Patrona with a slightly bigger budget.
Cassandra G.
P.S. Besides, for English drama I just watch Revenge. It's like La Patrona with a slightly bigger budget.
Permalink posted by : Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 12:14:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 12:14:00 AM EDT
I doubt the audiences could keep up with an every day soap opera. But there's an appeal in a story that has an end, and doesn't drag on for years and years as our soaps did. Some of the better shows now seem to have been planned to last just a few years and then stop. Lost did this, but then messed up the plans by dragging the last bit story out over a few years. Maybe this time limit is something American shows could focus on, rather than trying to put a show on every day.
And if we want soapiness in english, there is always (per Audrey) Downtown Abbey. They just need to add some character music and we'll get the full telenovela experience.
Kelly
And if we want soapiness in english, there is always (per Audrey) Downtown Abbey. They just need to add some character music and we'll get the full telenovela experience.
Kelly
Permalink posted by : Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 12:57:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 12:57:00 AM EDT
Fatima: En Otra Piel on Telemundo has a supernatural theme. I watched it for awhile before switching to DQTQTQ. It stars the woman who played Pato in PEAM--Maria Elisa Camargo (sp?)
Permalink posted by : Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 3:19:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 3:19:00 AM EDT
Thank you UA for posing an interesting question.
In addition to loving the storylines, the acting and of course Caray, Caray as many have mentioned, I would have to say that now, only Novelas in Spanish would interest me.
My primary reason is that the stories have an ending as Variopinta and Cassandra noted. "Serials" like General Hospital go on endlessly with new issues arising and the same characters toiling on for years without end.
I like the endings and resolutions with (mostly) happy results.
Diana
In addition to loving the storylines, the acting and of course Caray, Caray as many have mentioned, I would have to say that now, only Novelas in Spanish would interest me.
My primary reason is that the stories have an ending as Variopinta and Cassandra noted. "Serials" like General Hospital go on endlessly with new issues arising and the same characters toiling on for years without end.
I like the endings and resolutions with (mostly) happy results.
Diana
Permalink posted by : Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 9:49:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 9:49:00 AM EDT
If US companies would replicate this format in English, they wouldn't be remotely as emotionally expressive as anything by Televisa; it's just not our style.
The closest thing we have to this would be if The Sopranos or Dexter were shown M-F at 10PM until the end. The Sopranos had 65 episodes, the minimum number; Dexter has more. i'll bet if we were producing novelas in English most of them would be crime stories of some sort.
The closest thing we have to this would be if The Sopranos or Dexter were shown M-F at 10PM until the end. The Sopranos had 65 episodes, the minimum number; Dexter has more. i'll bet if we were producing novelas in English most of them would be crime stories of some sort.
Corazon Salvaje, Thank you for that recommendation. I hope I can find it on YouTube!!!
Nanette, that is interesting. I didn't know that about "En Otra Piel". I will have to scope it out.
Audrey, great examples!!! I love Downton Abbey. There are generally only 8 episodes, so we know things can't wander around too much. I love the clothes. Wish I could have those clothes. :))
Fatima
Nanette, that is interesting. I didn't know that about "En Otra Piel". I will have to scope it out.
Audrey, great examples!!! I love Downton Abbey. There are generally only 8 episodes, so we know things can't wander around too much. I love the clothes. Wish I could have those clothes. :))
Fatima
Permalink posted by : Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 1:09:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 1:09:00 PM EDT
Urban:
The tone of Anglo telenovelas would seem all wrong to me, as most of today's commenters have noted.
In the last few years there have been several limited run melodramas that I can think of—Mildred Pierce, Sopranos, Dexter, Downton Abbey, Vikings and Breaking Bad—that have been very well done.
But generally speaking, I want to see my intense dramas in short but intense bursts, on stage. The level of intersubjectivity that can be achieved with a live audience is unmatched, and I love taking the journey with my fellow members of the crowd.
I would not be likely to watch an English language telenovela, because our culture cools down or ignores the 'hotter' content of life—death, belief, intense feelings or forbidden love. Without the context of the Latin culture I think I would find such a show boring.
And, Urban, ITA with you, when English language soaps ARE made they tend to follow one family and be focused on the theme of transgression (crime). It seems that there is very little redemption for those who transgress; only punishment and death.
EJ
The tone of Anglo telenovelas would seem all wrong to me, as most of today's commenters have noted.
In the last few years there have been several limited run melodramas that I can think of—Mildred Pierce, Sopranos, Dexter, Downton Abbey, Vikings and Breaking Bad—that have been very well done.
But generally speaking, I want to see my intense dramas in short but intense bursts, on stage. The level of intersubjectivity that can be achieved with a live audience is unmatched, and I love taking the journey with my fellow members of the crowd.
I would not be likely to watch an English language telenovela, because our culture cools down or ignores the 'hotter' content of life—death, belief, intense feelings or forbidden love. Without the context of the Latin culture I think I would find such a show boring.
And, Urban, ITA with you, when English language soaps ARE made they tend to follow one family and be focused on the theme of transgression (crime). It seems that there is very little redemption for those who transgress; only punishment and death.
EJ
Xintperivian:
Is that your dog in the photo?I am enchanted by the picture! Do tell us the name and breed of your furry avatar!
Thanks,
EJ
Is that your dog in the photo?I am enchanted by the picture! Do tell us the name and breed of your furry avatar!
Thanks,
EJ
we are too ingrained in the U.S. with the need for immediate gratification by way of plot resolution for any nightly jollywood rela-novella nightly snippets to be successful. Hollywood would have to jump a huge cultural divide. It's psyche simply wouldn't and couldn't cope.
Not sure if I would be interested in a novela in English. Part of the reason I love the novelas is the complete immersion into another language and culture. Plus, knowing it is going to end gives it some tension and immediacy.
I do love Downton Abbey, but we see it for three months and then have to wait another year for more episodes--hate that!
J in Oregon
I do love Downton Abbey, but we see it for three months and then have to wait another year for more episodes--hate that!
J in Oregon
Permalink posted by : Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 10:17:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, April 13, 2014 at 10:17:00 PM EDT
I prefer telenovelas in Spanish due to the cultural background. The way the drama unfolds and is resolved is deeply tied into the hispanic culture. I enjoy observing that, plus the minor characters, the scenery, the customs, etc. If I watch an English language soap, it has to be in historical dress (such as Downton Abbey).
Agreed with all of these comments.
If Novelas didn't have the heat,the language and the hunks I wouldn't bother to watch them.
I just don't think US versions would be appealing - the language barrier isn't there neither is the latin heat.
The hunks are managable though heh
Also what I love about novelas are the gorgeous landscapes and regions that I wouldn't even know of without novelas.
And I prefer a spanish series called Gran Hotel over Downtown Abbey. Its more soapy and has the language but sadly it ended with just three seasons :(
If Novelas didn't have the heat,the language and the hunks I wouldn't bother to watch them.
I just don't think US versions would be appealing - the language barrier isn't there neither is the latin heat.
The hunks are managable though heh
Also what I love about novelas are the gorgeous landscapes and regions that I wouldn't even know of without novelas.
And I prefer a spanish series called Gran Hotel over Downtown Abbey. Its more soapy and has the language but sadly it ended with just three seasons :(
Permalink posted by : Monday, April 14, 2014 at 7:05:00 AM EDT
: Monday, April 14, 2014 at 7:05:00 AM EDT
I'm a huge fan of novelas de epoca and would prefer those over contemporary-dress ones. That would also apply to any attempt at this in English.
The original 26-episode version of The Forsyte Saga almost qualifies.
I could easily see murder mysteries being done this way, although I suspect that they wouldn't make it to 100 episodes. 65 would be about right.
What we seem to be saying here is that the emotional element we are accustomed to in telenovelas doesn't work in English and I suspect that's why English is also not a great language for opera.
The original 26-episode version of The Forsyte Saga almost qualifies.
I could easily see murder mysteries being done this way, although I suspect that they wouldn't make it to 100 episodes. 65 would be about right.
What we seem to be saying here is that the emotional element we are accustomed to in telenovelas doesn't work in English and I suspect that's why English is also not a great language for opera.
I watch telenovelas primarily for the language learning and cultural exposure. I wouldn't be interested in watching one in English unless the plot or the characters were EXTREMELY compelling.
I would love to get a telenovela in French, though! Set in France or some French-speaking country. I want to learn French but it's hard to retain anything without engaging and continous exposure to hearing it.
I would love to get a telenovela in French, though! Set in France or some French-speaking country. I want to learn French but it's hard to retain anything without engaging and continous exposure to hearing it.
Great topic, UA.
I wouldn't watch the English versions although someone did mention-Sex and the City. Hmmm,I was a fan.
The Latino telenovela actors are far more talented than their American counterparts and get very little credit for it. They are usually multilingual and have mastered another craft beside acting. Some actually sing and or dance. For me- keep the spanish novelas coming.
I wouldn't watch the English versions although someone did mention-Sex and the City. Hmmm,I was a fan.
The Latino telenovela actors are far more talented than their American counterparts and get very little credit for it. They are usually multilingual and have mastered another craft beside acting. Some actually sing and or dance. For me- keep the spanish novelas coming.
OMG, UA!!! The Forsyte Saga.... I watched that. You're right.
There was another attempt at English telenovela called
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Over_Me
I actually watched it at the time, way before my first tn.. CCEA. I didn't know what a tn was til CCEA.
There was another attempt at English telenovela called
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Over_Me
I actually watched it at the time, way before my first tn.. CCEA. I didn't know what a tn was til CCEA.
Permalink posted by : Monday, April 14, 2014 at 4:17:00 PM EDT
: Monday, April 14, 2014 at 4:17:00 PM EDT
I remember a few years back when the leftover network that remained when UPN and WB combined into CW was created tried to do telenovelas in English. I watched an episode of one. It was terrible.
The actor (Todd Cahoon) was really good looking though.
Permalink posted by : Monday, April 14, 2014 at 4:49:00 PM EDT
: Monday, April 14, 2014 at 4:49:00 PM EDT
I think it would just ruin the sanctity and fun that is telenovelas. Now what I would love to see would be ALL telenovelas CC :)))
I'm learning a lot of Spanish this way, like most others here, and really would prefer my TN's Muy Caliente!
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I'm learning a lot of Spanish this way, like most others here, and really would prefer my TN's Muy Caliente!
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