Caray, Caray!

Wow, Karmageddon is now a label. I hope others post these on programs I'm not watching.

My opinion:

Los Santibanez both deserve to die. That is the only way MD and Max will have any peace. Their crimes are also too heinous for any punishment under Mexican law. I vote that they kill each other. If the writers send them to prison (which is more commonplace now) Danny-Boy is killed by other inmates for the crimes against MD and her baby while Mama Bear offs herself after being attacked by other inmates for the same reasons.

Arango goes to prison for his role in everything his clients have done for the past 25 years if they don't kill him first (either directly or forcing Jacinto to do it).

Hosefa should also end up in prison. This is likely to be the writers' decision and I would agree with it. However, I hope someone reveals that she was the one who tried to kill Leo so the sentence is long enough.

Isela should leave DF and never return. She hasn't done anything to be sent to prison for under the law other than failure to report a crime, but if she blows the whistle on Hosefa that could be forgiven.

More later.

 

Thank Urban. I'll have to think through punishments later. You forgot to add Leo's attempted murder to the list for Josefa. Be back later.
 

What's the capital assault and murder Clod is guilty of?
 

And what bribe did he accept? We really don't know anything about the Marta case yet, so we can't assume Ursula's assumptions are the truth. Clod doesn't need any money to accept a bribe. He is definitely guilty of hubris which makes him believe that his judgement is always right. He also classist, and easily accepts that poor people have criminal proclivities, while more easily believing his rich friends are right/telling the truth.
 

Fabiola's character Brigitte in De que te quiero, te quiero lost her leg to a snake bite for being a bitch and pretending to sleep with her half sister's boyfriend (slept his twin and let her sister believe it her fiancee). Isela has caused way more harm, lied way too much to be redeemed. Right now she's on easy street. Great job, bun in the oven, great prenatal care, Orlando on call, plenty of pity from those she's hurt as she awaits Alma's death to move in with Claudio. I'm ok with Josefa braining her with a brick until she can't count past two.
 

Capital murder (or assault) are what happen as the result of another illegal action. In this example, Marta died in the prison Claudio put her in and MD was assaulted in the same prison after he connived to make sure she didn't get out.

I am assuming he accepted bribes in the Marta example, but that is an assumption. Whether he did or not his other crimes are more than adequate for a legal punishment.

As to the rest of the lot:

Jacinto Prison, although he's likely to die earlier at the hands of one of the Santibanez

Marcia Prison (answer to both questions) because it's so karmically correct

La Abuela She's in for life, but solitary confinement would be appropriate.

Claudio Suicide, because the humiliation is too great.
 

Claudio first needs a public flogging to make sure he gets it, people know the scum he really is, I don't want him crawling off in the dark and hanging himself. Skewer him in the press!
 

Yes, Clod needs to be humiliated and judged in the court of public opinion (press and social media).
 

Punishments:

Honoria: Being loved by Maria Dolores. Honoria needs Maria Dolores to be this callous hussy so she can hate on her. If Maria Dolores loves her, she can't punish MD.

Warden/Montijo: To be exposed and end up in prison with the rest of the inmates

Abuela: Somebody slips her a death pill in her food/prison fight ending in death/solitary for the rest of her life

Jacinto & Arango: prison

Isela: finds out Claudio DID have something to with Marta's death, and with the knowledge that she is carrying her mother's murderer's baby, gives the baby to Gerry & Ivana and leaves town, never to be heard from again

Josefa: Prison

Santibanez: Death. Dannyboy will probably get killed but Ursula will probably kill herself. In the same chair Hector & Maleny died in. After being haunted by Hector & Maleny.

Ivana (if she does not redeem herself): Gerry finds out about her continuing role to rob Maria Dolores of her baby and leaves her for good, to be alone & bitter with Susana.

Susana (if Ivana redeems herself): Ivana kicks her out, but sets her up in a very modest 1 bedroom apartment. Gives her a modest monthly allowance but she cannot live with Ivana and Ivana's luxuries ever again.

Claudio: to be unmasked publically by Max and Leo for all of his coverups and crimes after Alma dies. Max & Leo disown Claudio. Claudio is stripped of all his status & pristine reputation. Under a cloud of suspicion and shame, Claudio leaves town, never to be heard from again.

Future:

Leo & Clara never get back together but are civil & friendly. Leo becomes a judge.


 

I forgot about Susanna, but I don't see redemption for her. She's been far too nasty to Ivana her whole life... while leeching off her. She deserves exile on a meager allowance.

While Claudio might deserve the public humiliation he's always feared, Max and Leo don't deserve the fallout that would hurt their careers. That's why I vote Suicide.
 

What multiple accounts are Ursula guilty of? I have not been able keep up with the story completely.

Thanks.
Veronica
 

Ursula set up the murder of her husband and goaded Maleny into suicide. In my book that counts as murder. She has made at least two attempts on Ivana's life (drugs and the pool, then drugs later).
 

Anon207--I'm with you 100% of the way. I think you covered them all. I did get a chuckle out of your "future." Leo becomes a judge--is this punishment?

Well, I think the biggest anvil in all of karmageddon is reserved for the Mexican justice system and it's weird "guilty until proven innocent," no speedy trials for the accused, open bribery, lack of fact-checking in statements and testimony against the accused, mixing pre-trial detainees with condemned criminals in prisons, overcrowding, privileges for those who have a source of money and the list could go on.
 

Believe it or not, "Innocent until proven guilty" is not the norm worldwide. And if you think this prison is brutal, I challenge you to watch the documentaries on Youtube on the world's worst prisons. Just don't do this anywhere near a mealtime.
 

Josefa - #1 - She set almost EVERTHING into motion except Danny-boy & MD’s hookup. Ends up in prison for attempted murder (Leo).
But I wish she would just die.

To me she is one of the four worst characters (Claudio, Daniel, & Ursula being the other three). Prison isn't bad enough for her.

Ursula - #2 - She is left broke & penniless because she doesn't get Ivana's millions or Ivana's company.

Ursula kills Danny-boy by accident & gets a life sentence for killing her beloveded son. In 2014 in México the max became 50 to 140 years. She made criminal plans for him & others to carry out (rape, baby snatching, murder, etc.) & colluded with him on all his crimes.

Danny-boy - #3 - DEATH. Killed by Ursula. His death is necessary but slightly sad--before dying at his mother's hand, he redeems himself VERY, VERY slightly--he finally faces the reality that he is scum. Plus, he comes to terms with the fact that:
* He will never have MD. She will never forgive him or love him for raping her or stealing her baby;
* He would be a terrible father (but he probably doesn't give a damn);
* Starts to deal with killing his own father;
* Gives up his custodial rights when MD gets her baby back; &
* Accepts his responsibility for Maleny’s subsequent death, being partially his fault. He also has to die for all his crimes, especially the rape& stalking of MD & the unjust death of Julian.
* Framed Corina

He is killed by the one person that catered to his every whim, pampered him endlessly, & looked the other way about his craziness. Plus, she was always prejudicial against Maleny, always favoring Danny-boy, & framed Maleny for Hector’s death--allowing Danny-boy to live guilt free.

Claudio - #4 - Descredited, loss of reputation, loss of respectability, bribery, collusion, needless death of Marta & many others (some by Abuela), snubbed by his friends, & colleagues. Dead to Leo, with Max showing minimal respect.

Puts a bullet to his head & commits suicide, which isn't good enough for Claudio.

Isela - #5
* She gives her baby to Ivana when she realizes she has no money or a way to raise a child (& she is selfish);
* She is isolated from family & friends who realize all the wrong she has committed by betraying everyone;
* She destroyed Alma’s wonderful family and home, life, and health;
* She is responsible indirectly/directly for almost all the bad things that happened to most of the characters.
* She is left wandering the streets as a prostitute.

Abuela - #6 - She is poisoned by the inmates & ends up dead.

Warden/Montijo - #7 & #8 - End up in prison for corruption, unwarranted deaths of inmates by letting Abuela, & other inmates run wild, lack of adequate healthcare, & accepting bribes.

Arango/Jacinto - #9 & 10 - Arango goes to prison for his role in everything, his covering up of all Ursula's crimes & letting Maleny die a senseless death. Of course Jacinto or Ursula could kill him first. Jacinto 15 years in prison, then raped by inmates.

Ivana - #11
* She takes MD’s baby from Ursula before Ursula is killed by Danny-boy;
* Then Gerry leaves her due to her not testifying for MD at her trial for murdering Julian (no wonder she hasn't testified to date) & helping her get out of prison promptly at her trial for killing Julian (accidently with Danny-boy’s help); &
* By not helping to keep the Santibanez away from MD & her baby as Gerry had asked of her.

She ends up a broke, bitter old maid with Susana who drives her crazy, & she loses her company.

Honoria & Jenny #12 & #13-Redeemed
 

UA--Despite the larger-than-life flaws in our own justice system, it is preferable to most others. I wasn't picking on Mexico as being unique--only unique to this telenovela. Yes, horrible conditions exist everywhere and no, I don't want to see images of any others--watching Midnight Express was enough (yes, it was a movie, but based on the real life experience of Billy Hayes).
 

Oh, Victoria--excellent amplification on punishments meted out to our villains.

I'm glad you mentioned Ivana. So far, her biggest *crime* has been to withhold testimony that would exonerate MD--a crime of conscience, and to harbor criminal thoughts of receiving stolen goods (kidnapping a baby) AND knowing whose baby it is. She's been in collusion with criminals to commit said kidnapping, which makes her an accessory in a conspiracy plot.

Josefa may have set everything in motion, but if it had not been for Claudio, there would not have been anything to set in motion. Claudio deserves the biggest share of punishment. Public shame, disbarment and perhaps investigation into his other cases would be great. He might even be taken into preventive detention while all this is being investigated. He could then be charged, tried and convicted and suffer the consequences of the type of justice he meted out to others. Yes, prison time before he hangs himself.


 

Here's another punishment:

Claudio: Arrested for corruption & covering up the murder of Hector Santibanez & suicide of Maleny Santibanez. In jail without bail. Has trial delayed indefinitely.
 

Thanks for answering my question, Urban.

For Ursula, she should end up penniless and homeless. Everything she did was for money. Not caring about who she hurts in order to get what she wants. I remember in Por Siempre Mi Amor, Dafne ended up scrubbing floors and working hard labor in order have a place to stay. Something like that is what should happen to her. Let her work hard labor and be abused by some greedy landlord. Lets see how she likes it, especially after everything she has done to Maria Dolores.

Daniel should go back to jail and stay for life. He suffer the rape he put Maria Dolores through. Then he should be castrated and then be paralyzed for the rest of his life in a wheelchair like what happened to Julian. He should be still be abused in jail still. The bastard.

And for Ivana, I know it is too late now but it would have been nice that somehow Ivana lost her fashion empire to Maria Dolores and she ends up alone without Gerry. She knows what happened the day Julian died and STILL she hasn't said anything to help Maria Dolores. She saids that she hates Ursula and Daniel all what they done to her and yet she is helping them by keeping her silence. I don't like that at all.

Veronica
 

Veronica, Ivana's actions don't make any sense at all. She also appears not to realize that part of the plan to give her the baby is to kill her so the baby will inherit the company and for Ursula to get custody because the baby has Daniel's DNA. This is serious because she knows they've already made two attempts on her life.

I think she needs to be added to this list now.
 

All the main villains should be locked up for life IN THE SAME CELL. Sort of a take-off on J.P. Sartre's play No Exit, which has the most memorable line: 'l'enfer, c'est les autres' -- translated roughly as "Hell is other people"!