Caray, Caray!

Urban, thank you for a detailed recap. I honestly do not understand how you knock these out alone so fast !. Or are there several people helping?

This had to be one of the most enjoyable episodes recently just to see Lillian's D'oh moment when the ashes or flag, etc. were not for her.
See my Avatar.
 

I honestly would have liked to have found out more about his backstory. How did he end up with a first name like "Brian"? He didn't look like a Brian at all. Where did his early racism come from?

Lillian had better rethink her own snobbery.

More later.


 

This is greatly appreciated UA

"and don't pretend you didn't see this coming"

Disliking Marta, I didn't get that much satisfaction from her beatdown of Lilian, but oh last night, that flag thingie. Well done show.

Is Ramon blind or an idiot?

Marta was already coy with Adolfo. I would never leave her alone in a room with Mr. tofie.

Carito was guilty of being a friend of Perla, mean to Luciana because she loved Miguel and made extra cash working for Juan. On the other side of the karma ledger she spent the dirty money and her own to feed the immigrants and encouraged them to use an unlocked door to flee and now overcame her fear of death and told all to the police. The redemptive heroine flying under the radar.

 

Thank you , Urban. great title !

Well, Brian, the human tennis ball lobbed between Lilian and Marta.."You're mine " "get away" " come here" . The hair, the shoulders, the incorrect uniform. He probably could have had anybody in SOnoma, but he just kept bobbing between these two. I do not get it.

Yeah, lots of black on the two "pseudowidows." I have had enough of the weeping and wailing because neither treated the guy very well when he was alive. Basta.move on.

How many more episodes to go? Has Dave lost his vest supply? I noticed that Sonia is still wearing hers.
 

Dave stopped wearing his corset so Graciela would have unrestricted access.
 

UA: Gutierrez was ashamed of being Latino, so he pulled a Deborah Sanders.

Tofie: The entire episode was a complete mess!

I did see Marta getting the flag from Gutierrez's casket (did he even have family members ?)

 

Urban, spicy yet sweet. A delicious elixir, peppered with wit and insight.

"remaining IQ points" and "Isn't it rather curious that she isn't drowning herself in the blood of David's grapes?]" were among my favorites.

"David watched with a zombied expression" was perfect UA. It is as if he is in a somber trance. To quote Cher “snap out of it”!

Am I a terrible person because I felt no pity for Lili when the policeman told her the flag was for Marta??

"Brian, the human tennis ball lobbed between Lilian and Marta". Excellent Susanlynn. They will still be bickering when he is cold in his grave.

I thought Luci showed class and grace by leaving so that Marta and Fernanda could say their tearful goodbyes. It rankles me that Luci has treated Fernanda with nothing but respect yet Fernanda remains coolly unrepentant. That said, her devastation will come quickly enough.

I thought there was far too little action in last night's episode, considering we are so close to the end.

I was watching Marta and Adolfo closely. Yes, Marta was laying on the charm quite thickly. Good idea not to invite Marta to your house tofie :)

David had every right to be upset that Bobby saw Marta hitting Lili. But he should have had Marta speak to Bobby directly. He did not handle this well. But does he handle anything well??

Urban, this was far, far superior to the episode.

Thank you!

Diana


 

OF COURSE Marta is going to go all out for Adolfo if it is common knowledge that he even KNOWS Lillian. That is what these two miserable old heifers do. It is too bad Miggy and Lulu can not see her through other eyes. Especially Lulu as Marta has made it clear to her that she is the red headed step child as compared to Nasty Furbrat and Boob.
 

Fom here on out to the FIN if Marta or Lil is on the screen they better be crying. I'm sick if those rwo. They are too realistic. They will both be cat hoarders one day.
 

The one decision David made that was correct was one he didn't follow through on, which was that Lillian and DisGrace had to go. I guess the writers couldn't think of a way that those two could do more damage to Fernanda from a distance.

To answer Steve's question I don't think Brian had any remaining family as he has never said much about them. He may have mentioned his parents once but that was long ago and whatever he said I don't remember. What I have concluded on the basis of other things we heard and saw was that Mexican food was not prepared or served in the home of his youth, he does not speak Spanish, and he (along with all the other characters) had no contact with Mexican music, which is very unrealistic in California.

There was a discussion a while back among us that he probably should have been played by a more mature actor, but I don't really agree. The idea of Lillian and/or Marta being cougars at this lifestage was too amusing to me, although I have always been under the impression that Marta was meant to be at least ten years younger than Lillian in view of the age difference between their children. If Lillian is US-born and a full gringa she would most likely have waited longer than Marta to get married and wouldn't have had children right away. Hence, she would have been about 50 in the prologue and be 60-65 right now. Marta was 18 on her wedding day and I think Luciana would have been born within two years of that, which would mean that Marta is still in her 40s. What doesn't help is that these actresses are almost the same age off-camera and the makeup department didn't do anything to compensate. Or just didn't think about it.
 

Urban--Thank you for this, even though it was a snore-fest. They could have chopped this in half and it would still be snore-worthy. More later--this is pretty early for me!!!
 

If they think we want to see WWIII between the old heifers over man #3 at this late stage they are smoking crack down there. Furthermore, I don't want Adolfo to DIE. He is one of the few I hope to see walking to the ensuing funerals.

There can not be more than five or six hours after commercials etc. left. We have enough material to fill that without a new (old) plot twist.
 

Gracias, UA.

Now that you've mentioned it, I'm surprised Lilian indeed wasn't drowning her sorrows in any way--let alone "in the blood of David's grapes." OTOH, I think this is/was supposed to be her first truly genuine moment of angst/grief--Lil's idea of love, at least WRT Magic Brian, was absolutely screwed up ("I made him what he is, so he should love me!")...but she indeed loved him, as much as she understood the term. Or didn't understand it, whichever applies.

The flag thing...distracted as I was by wondering if that guy was indeed an actual gringo or a lucky guy with no accent whatsoever, I won't lie: the second major occurrence of "Oh, wait, I'm looking for Marta" (the first being when Fernanda introduced Lil to Peter) was hilarious. And Azela Robinson straight up saved all of it, with an assist from Veronica Jaspeado.

Conversely: why the heck was Marta dressed like she was going to a funeral?

And, oddly, reading that recap makes it feel like Show didn't fast-forward through Carito's confessions to So Obviously Gringo Cop #1 and David that Juan and Perla were behind the migrant trafficking. That seemed weird for our first "the real villain is finally revealed" episode; did I miss a scene somewhere?

"The one decision David made that was correct was one he didn't follow through on, which was that Lillian and DisGrace had to go. I guess the writers couldn't think of a way that those two could do more damage to Fernanda from a distance."

I'm wondering if in part this was a budget thing. At a minimum, Graciela would absolutely have had to stay close to David to continue her manipulations...okay, fine. And since Lil's apartment (that we only ever saw, what, once?) was off in San Diego, IIRC, banishing her would have meant either her going back there and coming back every so often--which might have indirectly affected Sonia's general arc--or her finding somewhere to stay in Sonoma, which would have meant a new set, and more money...
 

Marta is wearing black because she's in mourning and event told David she the love of her life died in her arms. Why can't Ramon put it together or is he just grateful Marta can't cheat with Brian now.

Yep, David's threat doesn't mean a thing and Lilian knows it.
 

*smacks own forehead* Dammit, tofie, you're right. I should have caught that--THE STUPID apparently bled through my TV.

That said...actually, no, we didn't get an actual funeral for Erika, so our apparently not getting one for Magic Brian makes an annoying sense...
 

I am surprised that there wasn't a big dramatic funeral scene where the two crazy women of Sonoma couldn't show how much they looooved the dearly departed by screaming at each other over the casket while wrestling for that flag.

Regarding Dave never following throughout​ on ousting the two witches....No cars available .Dave as just too lazy and depressed to call UBer.
 

Thank you, Urban. Thank you for watching this swill and producing such an eloquent, coherent and enjoyable recap. That is truly a miracle.

Insert your favorite invectives for insulting a couple of tired old broads in an even more tired and drawn out, stupid, time wasting storyline.

Marta still higher on my shit list than Lil. Yep, I felt sorry for her when the flag wasn't for her and I wanted to strangle Marta with it. Love of my life. Hoe already envisioning herself up under Adolfo.

Yes, Ramon is an idiot.

Tofie, loved your redemptive heroine flying under the radar. Her conversation with the Police should have been a more important scene.

Diana, agree that Luci showed both class and grace to Furskag. ["Skag" was a favorite burn bad little girls used to hurl at other little girls back in the 60s. No sexual connotation, like "Hoe."] It rankles me that Luci has treated Fernanda with nothing but respect yet Fernanda remains coolly unrepentant. Yes, I will be front row seat for Furskag's devastation.

So Dudweed is going to kill Juan. I hope Juan kicks his ass within an inch of his life! Stupid bastard!
 

No way David would ever force his wifes mother to leave the house.

He's good at passive aggressive firing and break ups he can blame on someone else.
 

Thanks, Urban! Nice title. :-) "I will spare you the deets here." Haha, thank you :o)

Oh, David. FOr a moment there, I thought he had gained back some of those lost IQ points, calling the workers' bluff and telling Lil she'll be the next one out the door if she misbehaves. But then he had to rush off to Juan's. Juan has a gun. Is David bringing his own gun? Is either of them an experienced marksman? Or will they measure the guns and the one with the bigger gun wins?

Or perhaps Perla will get behind Juan and break a vase over his head.

I'm very annoyed that Ramon and the workers were only bluffing, and I'm even more annoyed that the one time David had to be smart, it was about that. "Marta wouldn't like it if you all quit." Boo hoo hoo. My response (if I were serious about leaving) would be "we're not quitting because of Marta, we're quitting because of YOU!"

One more slap in the face for Lilian, this time from the Sonoma Sheriff's office. What did she expect? All those times she accused Gut of "using" her, isn't that her own fault? "Go out with me or I won't support your campaign for sheriff." "Go out with me or I'll ruin you."

Funny how Lil told Sonia she'd never hurt herself. Does that mean she's planning to hurt someone else instead? Or is it Famous Last Words?

I DID find it odd that Lil wasn't drinking. That might be a bad sign... she is not herself. And as bad as "herself" is, I can imagine a lot worse.

I don't think anyone's told her yet where Martha went...
 

You don't see Carito wanting pity but accepts responsibility for her actions despite real threats and attempts on her life.

Marta was strolling arm in arm as lovers do with Brian when two thugs attempted to kidnap Carito at gun point but you wouldn't know she was even there listening to Marta.
 

One more slap in the face for Lilian, this time from the Sonoma Sheriff's office. What did she expect? All those times she accused Gut of "using" her, isn't that her own fault? "Go out with me or I won't support your campaign for sheriff." "Go out with me or I'll ruin you."

Ok Julie, I'll move Lil up on the shit list, but Marta still has a higher position. And no, she doesn't know where Marta is going and it's so stupid but they MUST be setting up more old feline caterwauling!
 

Yes, tofie! The thugs were after Carito and from the beginning old big-mouth acted as if she was the only one there! No one was even offering Carito any comfort or asking how she was. Don't get me started, uuuuuUUUUUFFF!
 

I don't see Lillian as suicidal over this, but she might be when DisGrace's secret is revealed. I'm not a parent but I can't imagine the devastation experienced by a parent who discovers that one of her children has killed another, and in this case the only other. That she is already wondering at what DisGrace has become will make that all the worse.

Prediction that her devastation will earn Marta's sympathy if Lillian doesn't do herself in first.

I'm disappointed in the workers also. Especially Leon, because he could easily go to VSB to be with Marta and Luciana. But that would put distance between him and Sonia.
 

It was embarrassing how the workers folded like a house of cards. Dave must be picking up some of DG's wizardry skills!
 

And it pisses me off the mileage Marta is getting because "Lilian destroyed my family" with Luciana standing there not saying a word. She was a 10 year old girl watching Brian with a boot on Marcos neck not knowing what will happen. What about Luciana Marta? She suffered while you lived in air conditioned luxury doting on your kids.
 

I would be happy for the Marta/Lil thing to just vanish, but with Marta staying at Lilian's other boyfriend's house there's no way it's over yet. For all we know, it may never end. We could fade to black on the last episode with their hands around each others' throats.

I'm sort of neutral on Marta, because I think she has redeeming qualities. It's up to her if she wants to continue messing with Lil, her only vice. She seems to think it's funny, but so far it's caused her a lot of grief. And I don't think Lil is playing any more. The gloves are coming off, as they say.

Tofie: Yeah, I noticed that Marta never mentions Carito when she talks about Brian getting killed. Did Marta forget why they were out there in the first place? (rhetorical question) The guys were gunning for CARITO, not Marta. Marta was pleased that Carito gave her an excuse to call Brian and invite him over for lemonade and then a nice stroll afterwards. (It's all true except for the lemonade!)
 

And ANOTHER thing. After Marta officially QUIT and had the 'cab' waiting out front why is she still calling numbnuts Patron.? Once she is not on the paytoll he becomes either Dave or Robles.

Or 'you'.
Or Forkstik
Or turdsniffer

you get the idea.
 

Or daughterbanger
 

Yes Julie how did Brian's death morph into giving his life to save hers? (Martyra)
 

Marta did not experience or even witness Luciana's traumas. She would have heard about that if Marcos told her later. For all we know Marcos and Luciana may have mutually agreed to not tell her about the horrible stuff to keep her from worrying more about them than she already was. As to any hardships Marcos and Luciana had, she survived them. She is a tough chick, like Scarlett O'Hara but with a lot more heart.

Lillian doesn't love Adolfo any more than she loved Brian. Adolfo would be the logical choice of a man for her to pursue, but she isn't really interested in him. He isn't handsome with a hot body. He does have money, position, and class, however, and if he develops any interest in Marta at all Lillian will go on the warpath on general principles.

 

Marta does tend to make things about herself. Every time she had a "relationship" talk with Luci about David, it was not about what was right for Luci, but what would have been right for Marta. And even that is BS, because the only thing Marta learned from her relationship with Fernando is that it's fun to mess with Lilian.

If Marta were not full of... baloney, she would tell Luci what she REALLY learned, and have Luci do to Grace what Marta has been doing to Lil. That's probably against Luciana's nature, but the writers haven't been particularly consistent with most of these characters anyway.
 

Marta's last taunt to Lillian would not have happened if the flag had not been delivered to the main house first. Both women would have stayed in their rooms and cried for at least a week.

Most women say and do to their own daughters as Marta is with Luciana, especially if their own experience is limited. Marta doesn't know Luciana that well for all that she is her mother because she missed her teen years. She doesn't seem to remember that Luciana has other options that were not open to her or has a subconscious envy of them.

Luciana doesn't have to take anybody's BS, which is why she left David's vineyard. Now it's DisGrace who is always looking for a fight, even going out of her way to do it. DisGrace is the one who gloats and she does so out of her own insecurity. No matter what she thinks David will never love her, the killing of Lisa notwithstanding. She knows David doesn't love her but needs to convince herself that she can make him do so. I think Luciana knows this, which is why she isn't knee-jerk reacting anymore.
 

Well, I am trying to catch up on the comments before heading off to work.

I just cannot stand to see people, even fictional characters, wasting their lives, and so many of these characters are doing just that! Both Lilian and Marta have spent a whole lot of time and effort battling each other over men. Geez, get a hobby, love and help your children and grandchildren, volunteer someplace. Let it freaking go already.

And if Marta starts flirting with poor Adolfo, I am gone. He was a good father to Erica, a good neighbor to Dave, and a good boss to Miguel. This guy deserves a nice woman, aka not Lilian or Marta. Likewise, Ramon. What message are the writers sending with these two good guys whose wives leave them , they raise their kids alone, and then they get involved with Lilian and Marta. Good guys finish last?

Okay, I feel better now.
 

I know a family where the mother seemed to harass and harangue her daughter and even did other things too lengthy (and too OT) to go into here but the mother only relented when the daughter ended up just like her, single with two small children, living from pillar to post living on the edge of depression and substance abuse. It can happen. Marta seems to have (even if subconsciously) primed Luci to be the other woman. But we know Luci has more smarts and principles in her right pinky than Marta has in her whole wretched body.
 

We never even found out the names of Adolfo's and Ramon's absent exes. My guess is that Adolfo's got homesick for Spain and Ramon's thought she deserved better than a vineyard worker. That both left these men to raise their children alone is mind-boggling.

Unless it could be said that both were too nice to see the selfishness in their wives.

As to your comment about volunteerism, Marta might do that but Lillian wouldn't. She didn't even like that Fernanda was willing to do it although she was in no position to stop her. That this is helping to get Fernanda into "the right school" is the only positive in her view.
 

Halfway through the comments now, but have to stop and meterme, even though it might have already been addressed. Obviously neither woman went to the funeral, even though they are in mourning. How do I suspect that? Under "normal" circumstances, the next of kin would have received the flag AT the interment.

I think that would have been a hoot to film the burial. Both "pseudowidows" at graveside and the cute patrolman brings the folded flag toward Lilian. She reaches for it but he passes her and delivers it to Marta. Now that's what I would have called poetic justice. Everyone there would have known exactly where Brian's affections lay. As it is, this way, only Sonia and cute patrolman know.
 

Yep, trust Susanlynn to point that out right away. Gracias, amiga (brains in sync).
 

Lots of people these days opt for a straight cremation/burial without a public service. My mother did and I was grateful for that. The big however here is the flag. Why would there be one if there hadn't been a public funeral with an honor guard in dress uniform?

The production budget. Not to mention only a few more episodes in which to wrap everything up.
 

Thank you so much Urban for your fine work on this recap. Last night’s episode kind of dragged a little and you certainly did a wonderful job recapping which made it more enjoyable to read rather than watch the episode itself. I was somewhat lost thinking if I missed a funeral. I couldn’t understand how Brian was barely shot the previous day and then the triangular shaped folded American flag was given to Marta the following day. I felt like we were in fast forward again.

My favorite line from your recap and your snarky comment: “Marta, I hope that our affection doesn't change.” [I'm not a doctor, David, but I can officially declare you brain-dead for this one.]”
Now that made me laugh! He is brain dead because he can’t see what is happening in front of his eyes. He’s so hell bent on making his children “happy” he can’t see it’s a false sense of happiness. He’s not on a TRUTH quest, he’s on a HAPPINESS quest. Happiness is a fleeting thing and is subject to change given any set of circumstances. People can be deceived about something and think they are happy, like a wife whose husband is a serial cheater, but she has a beautiful home and a nice income, with a nice car and is blind to her husband’s actions. In David’s case, he’s choosing deception and trading in what is right and good for the temporary “happiness” of his children. He should have listened to Cesar that night that Cesar tried to talk some sense in to him.

Oh and that one scene with Juan and Perla, where Juan says to trust him. Famous last words! I’m waiting for the scene where the police come to his place with a search warrant.

And at the end: “I'm going after Juan. I'm going to kill that wretch.” [Here's hoping that someone – anyone – will stop him.]”

Yeah, me too! Somebody PLEEEEAAASSSSEEEE stop David.

 

Contrary as I am, I'm over here just going Gene Wilder-style "No...wait...please stop..." David actually gunning for Juan counts as forward movement, even if it's (albeit somewhat justifiably) more of his usual reactionary rhetoric. My hope is that Juan himself stops David with the one thing that would stop him: Dead Lisa's phone. Probably won't happen, but it's definitely about that time. (Dun dun dunnnnnnn.)
 

Tofie: FerBrat's Karma is coming very, very SOON!

I'm going to be sitting back & watching the Karma strike the Uppity Brat BIGLY!


 

Whoa, Bill! Hadn't thought about that! It IS about time. First we had a Ferbrat fest and then the nanny goat rodeo, it's time for some real action! OMG! With that prospect, I'm looking forward to tonight!
 

Did anyone catch the previews? I saw them but wasn't sure if this was for today or for upcoming episodes. Looks like Luciana and DisGrace get into it again.
 

Tonight would be a good time for the enshrined cell phone to reveal its secrets... but maybe it is too early. I would expect David to not find out what Grace did until the last episode. The only way he could find out tonight would be if the next step is for him to control his reaction and devise a brilliant week-long strategy to trick her into confessing. But that doesn't sound like the David we know or the story we've been following.

If last night's "cliffhanger" ends up like Friday night's, we'll start tonight's episode with David saying "you're right, Carito, this is a terrible idea. I'll let the police handle Juan and I'll spend some time with my children."
 

UA - Thank you! I have been out of it lately due to the busyness of life, so thank you to all recappers of recent!

Cynthia-Did see the preview but thought it was more an ad to beg us to stick around and not give up, lol.

I kind of hope Miguel and Adolfo take over David's vineyard to boot. Was kind of sad I didn't get the labor strike last night by Susan, Ramon, Tano and Leon, but I knew they'd wimp out and not come through.

Good for Carito for turning on those idiots Juan and Perla.

My husband observed that David, although already dumb, is making even more stupid decisions ever since he stopped wearing vests. That made me laugh.


 

I did see the avances, Cynthia, but couldn't tell if it was for tonight or just the future in general. All I could think was, if people would stay on their own vineyard, Sonoma would be a much more peaceful place.
 

I swear when David said he'd kill Yosemite he was reaching for a carrot.
 

Ya know Buggsy is pretty smart. I'm thinking more Tweety Bird and Sylvester.

I taut I taw a puddy tat a sneaking up on me.
I did I did I KNOW I did as plain as it could be.
 

Urban thAnk you for this juicey recap.
Is dav dumb or what? He still wanted
M to apologize to L. Im glad she did apologize to Booby,that's the only one to say I'm sorry to. But the cheating
With the hubby, did she apologize for that? O the hell with it,let the chips fall where they may. Or the anvils in
Their case.
When she said she had to watch the love of her life die,so glad ramon did
Not hear that, see that situation is weird. But guts gone so on with ramon.
Lil need to let it go, cuz when the anvil start to fall. She'll need to take cover. Which wont do any good. Shes not that nice of a person. She's got her ass coming too.

Hope someone stops stupid so he won't
Cause himself harm by killing Juan. But like Lucy says "You don't listen".
They have left the vineyard, bring on
The crazy. Poor booby,that kid is in the Middle of crazy adults.

Ok gotta go shoppin for dinner. Thank you Urban.
 

And why are they wearing black neither one of them was married to him.
 

If David punches Juan in the mouth, will Juan get a fat lip? Or will it deflate?
 

I don't think you need to be married to the person you're mourning to wear black. As long as neither of them wears black for the rest of her life, which is still a tradition in some cultures.

I hope Juan ends up in prison with a really nasty cellmate. Death by any means is too good for him.
 

Wearing black is the symbol of mourning and I believe that in Mexico, everyone wears black when someone close to them dies. Or it used to be that way...
 

In novela funeral scenes everyone wears black although I was shocked that most of the men don't seem to wear suits.
 

This comment has been removed by the author.
 

I am stunned at how casually some people dress for funerals in real life.

Also in real life, I think a murdered sheriff would at least get a funeral procession through town, and some some TV coverage. I'm not sure exactly what Lil and/or Marta would have done, but I can't believe either of them would have skipped it. Especially Lil.

But since a funeral procession requires a lot of cars, there was no way we were going to see that!
 

This comment has been removed by the author.
 

Thinking about that flag, I started asking Hubba questions because he was in an honor guard for awhile in the Navy and had to go to quite a few funerals of men who had served in the Navy . I had no idea how many men are involved in an honor guard..six to stand on both sides of the casket, seven for the 21 gun salute( to fire three shots each)....plus someone to play taps. Two men stand at attention at either end of the casket during the viewing the night before. The flag is folded by each man along the length of the casket before the internment. The senior officer presents the widow with the folded flag. Hubba says that if the widow was not present at the funeral for some reason, it was delivered to her.
 

I do a unit with my speaking students on their native customs for weddings, funerals, births , etc. In some cultures mourners wear black, but in others, they wear white.
 

Oh Susanlynn, I've been to a funeral where everyone was wearing white from the family. A young boy died of cancer and I went to the funeral. Everyone from that family was in white. I found it very interesting.
 

Did anyjuan watch Despertar Contigo? In that when the gslan's grampa died Maia looked like a hooker in black at his funeral. A skirt 8 or 10 inches above her knees and then split up another several inches.
 

I notice that Viewerville, in general, seems to be more down on Marta recently than on Lillian. It seems that Marta has been more successful with the men that Lillian liked and therefore she seems to be given the Scarlet Letter. But I for one ask myself: who would I trust with David's children? Marta hands down. Lillian is too much of a booze hound and self-centered to be seriously interested in the children. In fact she probably agrees with Slitherine Graciela that "boobee" should be posted to the farthest 'internado' possible.
 

Anon: There are degrees of disgust. I think we detest both the old skanks. Lillian is just off the chart and I think we are rougher on Mart because she tries the goody two shoes thing when she is not far behind Lil.
 

But you are sooo right. Marta with the kids hands down. Lil eould just as soon put them on the grill.
 

If I had to chose to spend time with one of the two women, I would chose Marta. She has her flaws , but Lilian is just plain bitter and nasty. She is a joyless,prejudiced, entitled, miserable human being. I couldn't stand to be around Lilian for any length of time. The two bring out the worst in each other, but in my opinion, Lilian's worst is worse than Marta's worst. Say that three times fast.


 

Totally agree. Marta would actually be okay except for her and Lil's weird symbiotic hate obsession, which includes all of the Fernando stuff, all of the Brian stuff, the one-sided competition for the kids' affection, and now the deportation.

Marta does have that flaw, and it's very big and ugly. But as far as I can see, that's her only flaw. On the other hand, Lilian is ALL flaws. The only good things I've seen in her were the times she expressed disapproval towards Luci getting murdered, and her granddaughter getting brainwashed. But that is setting the bar way too low.

Conversely, Marta's better qualities are reflected in the friends and family who love her and are loyal to her. (Though maybe not quite loyal enough to walk off the job, LOL.) Lil allegedly has friends too - we know because she calls them up and tells the lies about her imaginary boyfriend. But we never see any of those friends, except for Adolfo. I have a feeling that he doesn't know her very well. And I also have a feeling that he will soon wish he didn't know her at all!
 

Ok that where it was typed wrong.I was
Going for "She's got her ANVILS coming too".
That's why it's good to proof read.
 

Shucks. I thought Marta was gettin some consolation ass. Poor Thing.

:-)
 

So..how do you folks want the secret of Lisa's rocking to be revealed? We know that Jusn is jonesing to inflict this final wound on DownedDave. He probably dreams about it at night .I am sure that the patio people will have better ideas than the writers.

I am not looking forward to Lu rushing to Dave's side as soon as she hears the news. All will be forgiven , and everyone will rally round pobrecito Dave. Will he be resilient enough to put on a vest again? Or will he want to start a whole new chapter in his book of wardrobe choices..golfshirts?
 

Like I said before, I would rather have Marta be granny than lil any Day. Shes the mother In-Law from hell, and she Really don't even like her own grandchildren. Which is strange cause
Likes Lisa more than she likes Gracie.
So you'd think she'd like the grands.
But this a craziass family.
David said something crazy last night
"I still don't want you to leave, you had Been my biggest help when Lisa died".
Then how does he know she was a big help he was zoned out for 2 freaking years and Luciana had to come and shake his butt loose from his death watch. Well maybe she was cuz lil sure
As hell wasn't,she was to busy stealin
From him and the grandkids. And hope he get every last penny back that they stole. Juan won't go down alone he'll
Sing like a crow on acid when he gets
Caught. And he will. Their days are numbered. Like sand through the hour glass, their days are numbered. They
Don't use the organ anymore : (
 

Thanks, Urban. Fabulous recap. “Marta, I hope that our affection doesn't change.” [I'm not a doctor, David, but I can officially declare you brain-dead for this one.] -- lol!

Lillian looked her in the eye and said that a woman should never tell a man her feelings

Lil, 95% of your feelings are racist and mean-spirited. Yep, better to keep your feelings to yourself.

You all are cracking me up with your comments. I have laughed at work too much today and people are starting to notice.

Everybody's tired of the old biddies, but they're sure bringing out choice barbs. Don't know if you can believe what you read in the entertainment news, but I read awhile back that Gut's role was originally going to be small and that he'd get killed off early. But the Dave-Luciana pairing left viewers and ratings cold, so they heated up a Lil-Brian-Marta triangle.
 

You left out one of Lil's good things: her tender and understanding comforting of Adolfo when Erica died.

My hatred for Marta is not a comparative phenomenon. Yah, Lil is a bitch but that doesn't keep Marta from being a bitch. What Lil was to her husband and daughters, her son in law, her grandchildren, Brian and people she deems lower than herself invites plenty disdain. Lil can independently earn a medal for shrew, hypocrite, and cynical embezzler and manipulator of her DUMb son in law.

I evaluate Marta separately. Yes, everyone loves her but being a narcissistic, adulterous hypocrite is a terrible flaw. I will not forget that she had two small children and was screwing the boss and hoping to run away with him while her husband worked his hind quarters off making the vineyard she lived in until today the standout wine producer it is. Marcos was very valuable to David, he said so many times. What was Marta doing while he was working? Spreading for the boss and believing his claims of love and a pledge to leave Lilian for her. What did the stupid bitch think they were going to do, put Lilian out and she become Grand Lady while Marcos then became a peon addressing her with hat in hand? Or, were they going to run away? Marta was willing to break up Lilian's home, she shit on her vows to Marcos and if I were in Lilian's place, I would have tried to get her ass deported, too. There, I said it! I totally understand Lil's hatred! Was Fernando a dog? Did she spend too much time with her friends? Well, Fernando was LIL'S DOG and that was HER TIME and HER MARRIAGE!

Marta's affair with Fernando was not an oops, she was screwing him for a good period of time and then to keep throwing it up in Lil's face and, as I said yesterday, to purposely go for Brian BECAUSE LIL WANTED HIM, makes her morals lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut. And how sincere is her love for the children? She's gloated to Lil plenty of times that they love HER more than Lil. She even told Lil once that SHE was soon going to be the LADY of the Robles house!

For me, these are not little holes in the panty hose of Marta's character: her ass is totally out and she's a bitch even if she can cook well and coddle the kids and whether Lilian is also a bitch or not!

There! Y'all knew I wasn't going to pass up a chance to drag Marta!
 

Lila - I'm no Marta fan either. For me, her best side is the caring she's shown Miguel and Carito (she even tried to mother Perla a long time ago) but her worst side is favoring Fernanda's desires over her own daughter's desires. She's a big hypocrite for sure, going all victim when she was doing Lil's husband.

holes in the pantyhouse -- love it!
 

Niecie, that's interesting. What bothered the audience about the David/Luciana pairing? Was it the choice of actors, their age difference, the way they interacted?

Of did they think that Juan Vidal was hotter than Gabriel Soto?
 

Girl I better not never get on your bad side,Lol. Everything you said about both these ol crows is true. But whose The lesser of two evils? Marta. With a Lot of spots and cracks in her armor. Lils abit in the crazy hot n cold zone. You never know where she's
Goin. I'd be scared to leave Booby in her care. She'd probably sell him to get money. Yeah she's been hurt, but I also think she enjoyed being with gut
And gloating to Marta aboutit. Both did That tryin to one up each other using the man. And he enjoyed too. These Ol Geezers and their love life.

Yes Lila And you drag her well. We can always Count on you to tare it down. You go Girl.
 

Nina, I want to hear a crow on acid sing!

Niecie, it's very interesting people weren't hot for Luci/Dave. But what's REALLY funny is that TPTB thought a Marta/Brian/Lil triangle was the way to fix it!

Lila: Yeah, Lil was good with Adolfo. Kudos to her for twenty minutes of acting like a compassionate human being. Then she went home and ordered Sonia to cook a bunch of stuff so that Lil and Grace could take the credit. (Maybe it wasn't the same day, but it was probably the same week.)

She can blame Marta all she wants to, but Fernando is the one who cheated on Lilian. The other woman could just as easily have been anyone else, and for all we know there could have been more.

What I am much, much more curious about now is: Does Lil hate Marta because of the affair? It does sound that way, but here is an alternative theory: maybe they already hated one another, and the affair represented an escalation in hostilities. In that case, Marta actually did get involved with Fernando specifically to piss Lil off, which brings their feud to a whole new level of cuckoo.
 

Julie, here is the answer to the "cuckoo quadrangle": (including Fernando)

I read awhile back that Gut's role was originally going to be small and that he'd get killed off early. But the Dave-Luciana pairing left viewers and ratings cold, so they heated up a Lil-Brian-Marta triangle. --Niecie in MD

They made this mess up on the fly!
 

I think that Marta will end up in the bosum of her family and friends, but I have no idea what ending the writers have planned for Lilian. Will she go BSC when the rocker is revealed and kill Discovered? Will everyone feel sorry for her , and will Dave and Lu let her stay in the house with access to all the vino she can chug? Will she write her own book about achieving a Boston accent ? Will she start a giftbag boutique? Will she become Mrs. Adolfo and finally throw out the grungy sofa of too many memories in the MPR?? I have no idea what fate the writers have in store for Lilian.
 

Well, all that's fine and good, and I don;'t give a chipmunks ass about either one of the ugly old heifers.

But Lil does need to land somehow associated with the liquor business. Otherwise:

"Hon, I love you and all and I am sure you know that, Snookums, but baby how are you drinking $200 worth of wine week in and week out?"
 

Actually I think when all is said and done Lil will wigg out permanently. She was almost there over the death of a man who didn't even love her. A man in an occupation requiring carrying a gun..

When she finds out Spawn #2 killed Spawn #1 and all the other things it could remove her last thread of sanity, especially if she is kicked out on top of all that.

Can you see her in prison with some big 300 pound black hispanic woman in for multiple murders making her wash her feet and do her nails?.

Maybe there will be a sequel.
 

And another thing that pisses me off. Why did they even bother with the Winemakers Local 101 if Marta leaves we leave for what 15 seconds. Don't bother writers. They may as well just do thought bubbles and let Leon or Tano think it but that would be as far as it went. Because that is as far as it went anyway.

OK. So tonight we spend a whole hour with some Good Samaritan (Nut Job) talking DudVud (NumbNuts) out of "Killing" NoJuan. (NutLey)


 

Urban - In the article, it wasn't so much the age difference but the lack of chemistry, but viewers didn't like GS with a beard, thought it made him look older.
 

Lil seems very close to snapping and will either do something to herself (despite her claim that she would never harm herself) or to someone else. Or the best of both worlds, have an accident (fatal or not) while trying to harm someone else.

Being a bitch is not a hanging offense. Neither is participating in fraud against your SIL. But right now, all signs point to a worse fate than I think she deserves. (I've said it before, being Lil is its own punishment.) And maybe soon.

(I don't like the beard, either.)
 

Actually Kirby lil's not far from flyin over the cuckoo's nest. She reminds me of that crazy mistress that
Boiled the pet rabbit. What kind of creature flew over the cuckoo's nest?
Somethin like lillian? Please somebody change the subject. Here's one, papa
Has a baby by one of his mistresses and it was a girl and she looks just like Lisa.Yall know how these tn/soaps
Are, they could make something else up on the fly, outta the blue. Probably
Not time for this tho.It would be abit interesting tho.
 

Lilian did comment that everyone she loves dies. Was that foreshadowing ? I do not think Lilian actually knows anything about what it is to love someone, but if she considers that her relationship with GRace qualifies as Lilian's definition of love, perhaps she will kill that last remaining person who is supposedly on Lilian's love list.
 

Was that Fatal Attraction? With Rabbit stew?
 

That chick was a close runner up to DisGrace, or maybe the other way around. The rabbit chick was freaking out there.

The only reason we don't kill 'em right off the bat is those crazy chicks are like an illegal drug in the undercover work..
 

I just hope after they have fiddledicked around with this Marta Lillian thing since the earth cooled, they spend some time on the REVEAL.
 

Lil and Grace are not close, so I can't predict what Lil would do if Grace died.

Ooops Showtime.
 

Yeah Kirby that was "Fatal Attraction" with Rabbit stew. She even had lil's frizzy Blond hair.Glen Close played that very nutty nutjob. She played it well. Just Like this actress that's playing lil.If grace die thats the end
For lil cuz she don't really love any one else.Does she love her grandbabies
? When Lisa died it was like she lost everything and Gracie was sitting there looking at her how she was acting holding lisa's dead body.She'll
Probably flip out. Maybe.
 

Can't wait to see how fer will treat Lucy when she finally see what a lying
Nasty dirtdobber her tia is. I don't like fer. Maybe I'll start after she
Sees how colossally wrong she was and disrespectful to Lucy and dad. Little
Snot.
 

Fernanda is just as delusional as her Aunt Succubus, who did a great job of deluding both of them.

Lillian will fall when David finds out how much money she and Juan embezzled from his vineyard. That is what she can go to prison for although I don't know that she will. He might just banish her from the vineyard and allow his children to decide whether they want to have any relationship with her.
 

Niecie, GS has had facial hair before. Maybe he just needs a different style beard. I've dated bearded men (back when I could still get men whose eyesight needed help) and some actually had worked on getting the right style that worked for them.

It occurred to me as I typed that that David's scratching the beard lately may lead to him being clean-shaven or restyled in the finale.
 

Urban...what?? Dave might lose his beard...and his vests?? How will we recognize him? Maybe he is in for a complete makeover! Hubba used to have a goatee and mustache type look, and my mother always told him that he looked like Mephistopheles.... But in a good way.😈
 

I first saw Gabriel Soto in 1999's Amigas y Rivales where his character, Ulisses, who was usually called Feo by his classmates. Having had previous experience in watching these programs I should have realized that eventually he would lose that nick.

I love how he looked in this novela. Since he has such an alpha-male square chin he should never have a beard that hides it.