Caray, Caray!

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

The Good

Location: Was this the first series Televisa has ever done to take place in the US? This is a positive step.

English-Language Usage: While there were definite omissions we can kvetch about at least there were English-speaking police and other characters in appropriate situations.

Cast / Performances: Most cast members were good, with good family-resemblance matches. Excellent performances by Azela Robinson, Kimberly Dos Ramos, Veronica Jaspeado, and (most of the time) Juan Vidal, acting solely in English for the first time.

The Bad

Writing: This series was not well-planned by the writing team. Too much information missing and the backstory about Fernando and Marta was made up as they went along, as though they crashed when they made the decision not to complete it in the same way as in the original. No backstory for Lillian to explain her contradictory attitudes, and above all insufficient romance of the main couple. That is a hanging offense in a novela with the A word in the title. There should have been less fondling of grapes and more of human flesh.

There were also inconsistencies with characters; we've discussed that all over the place.

Missing Production Elements: You can't live anywhere in California without a car or a driver's license. We saw almost no cars anywhere.

Loose Ends: Fernanda mentioned Dr Evil in the finale, so why didn't we hear about what happened to him? What will happen to Carito? Miguel? Adolfo? Not to mention that Lisa's cell phone was used to tease us with no payout.


The Ugly

Hair: A number of characters desperately needed hair makeovers but only three got them in the finale: Marta, Susan, and David (whose beard needed trimming). Tano and León have desperately needed new hairstyles for ages and Lillian – as a true snob – would never have worn her hair in most of the ways it was in this series; she would have gotten it straightened and never had dark roots. Wardrobe makeovers for Marta and Sonia could also have come a little sooner.

Accents: It's great to hear English where it belongs but if the character is an Anglo, s/he should not have a Mexican accent. We're looking at the SkidMark and a few of the cops. Not to mention Lillian's occasional affected British.
 

Karmageddon Scorecard

Juan: 10 out of 10
He got exactly what he deserved. He'll be in the slammer for the rest of his life, however short that will be.

Perla: 8 out of 10
This pathetic, delusional girl was too stupid to breed, so she had to die because of her refusal to face reality about Juan. However, dying alone as she did is almost bad enough that nobody deserves it.

Graciela: 7 out of 10
Considering how relentless she was it may have been true that nobody would have been safe from her until she was carried out feet first. However, the fact that she didn't face judgment is a serious disappointment. Now, if David would have denounced her in front of his children or any of the wedding guests or the press she might have flipped out and offed herself. Interesting, but I wish she had faced the Mean Girls in the Big House for a while before ending up in the ninth circle of hell.

Lillian: 7 out of 10
Excessive, due to her self-punishment. We never heard what her sentence actually was, but she seemed under the impression it was Life Without Parole. That would only be if the killing of DisGrace were pre-meditated. At worst this was 2nd degree, which would get her 20 years with time off for good behavior and it could be described as Manslaughter, for which the sentence could be less. It was not a premeditated act and that it ended in DisGrace's death was not inevitable.

Brian: 5 out of 10
He had repented and Luciana and Marta forgave him over the deportation, so his fate was excessive. However, he also died in the line of duty and his dying declaration about Lillian and her role in Marcos' and Luciana's deportation was something he should have told Marta long before this.


Carito: No Score, but we don't know if she will get Miguel.

“Dr” Andersen: No Score because the writers dropped the ball here.
 

Urban, as always, you’ve done an amazing job on the recap and the screencaps. I absolutely loved and agreed with your comments on “The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly” and on the “Karmageddon Scorecard.” THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!! …to you. Dy77, Cynthia, Julie, Delilah, Sonia and Anita for your dedication and perseverance in helping us through this TN. Had it not been for you, the team, and all the commenters that made this a bearable experience, I would have abandoned this ship(wreck) a long time ago.

In regards to Part 2 of the finale, the only thing I enjoyed was Juan’s butt-kicking and knowing that he would be getting it on a daily basis. I also enjoyed the Sonia/Lioncub wedding…well only that they showed them getting married—everything else I could have done without. I thought Dudvid’s and Mig’s pining over LuSeeWhatIsSheGonnaDecide was pathetic.

As you stated in your comments, there were so many loose ends… and when they showed Dudvid and Luci walking the vineyard—finally together—I felt like I had missed something…did Univision slice and dice the episode???

That’s it for now…more tomorrow….have a nice evening!

RC

 

RC, I don't know if they did. This retelling is from the Mexican original. Did you see anything in the article that wasn't on the air?

One thing that started bugging me yesterday is a list I didn't build, which was the

List of Clues about DisGrace that David Missed

Constant come-ons even in front of Lisa
Framed photo given to Luciana as a wedding present
All the nasty remarks about Luciana
Her inability to keep her hands off him, especially in front of Luciana
The boarding school brochures that Bobby found in her room

I'm going to turn in soon, so everyone is invited to add to this list.
 

Urban, the one thing I know for sure that was not shown was Fernanda's visit with Lillian. The scene where David went to see Lillian went directly to the scene where he went to see Juan.

There were some other things I missed but since I was going in and out of the house during commercials (to lock up my animals), I'm not sure if I just missed them or they were not shown.

RC
 

I made it a point to see the very start of the episode, but the first scene I saw was Juan in jail--they didn't show Migs and Luci's conversation or Marta with Bobby.

RC
 

UA, thank you for pulling the team together and ushering us through the show with no more than a bump and bruise but no scars that leave a mark. Thanks too, Julie, dy, Delilah, Cynthia and Anita and forgive me if I missed anyone that covered.

Who would have thought, not me, the best cocktail party, intellectual discussion, comedy routine, confessional and slumber party I've ever experienced would be here discussing Mexican TN's.

"Luciana, his angel in blue jeans" And here is where the FIN should have been. Luciana entering the room to sooth the distraught Dave. Why did they have to ruin the last opportunity to make this a David and Luciana romance by making it a competition to the end because Luciana was still confused? I don't think she should forgive David and be together but if she does at least make it about forgiveness and understanding of the man she loves instead of what guy hot guy should I marry. Why was Miguel shoved down my throat till the end?

Carito really looked cute at the wedding and I liked her dress.

So, Marta was aware all along she destroyed Lilian's family and nearly Marcos (he got exile instead of divorce papers) had her plans succeeded. Why is Marta not a bad guy and why is she rewarded in the end? Not fair.

 

Marta was not evil. She was young and foolish when she got it on with Fernando, who clearly seduced her. This is partly the result of her having married too young (at 18), having had Luciana before she was 21, and the writers screwing up by not planning this properly. The writers knew what had happened in the original and played Jenga with all the characteristics and it inevitably fell apart when they decided to backpedal on it.

Marta's comment about destroying Lillian's family is another writing error. Fernando would have probably destroyed it on his own based on what Brian told them back when. Fernando had married Lillian for his green card and wouldn't have divorced her if it meant he would get deported, which was another writing error (He would certainly have become a citizen, at least after Lisa was born). He had described Lillian as a bitch during their marriage yet somehow managed to be a decent father to his daughters (or Lisa would not have named her firstborn for him). There was also an earlier comment that Marcos never knew about Marta's affair and certainly his interactions with her definitely pointed to that. There is no excuse for these inconsistencies.

I agree with your comment that Luciana's return during David's anguish should have been the ending scene. The whole ping-pong game between David and Miguel with Luciana as the ball is another example of the writers trying to keep the viewers in suspense until the end. This has been done in too many novelas in recent times and it seriously compromises character development.

I also hope that we aren't the only viewers who complain about poor scripting.
 

Urban, beautifully written. You captured every emotional element perfectly. An excellent finale. Adding the show's logo was the icing on this delicious cake. The dialog translations were greatly appreciated. Your care was evident in every word.

"In the distillery another relationship was being tested", "[Men reading romance novels? That would seriously improve the human race.]" and "Juan, having learned that Orange Is the New Black" were among many favorites.

"The door opened and Luciana, his angel in blue jeans, entered slowly". This scene was well written (one of the few) and well done by both actors. David's face mirrored the gamut of emotions he was feeling. Sadness, guilt, love.

"We will have to take charge of the vineyard for now and leave him to help and protect his children.” Such staunch loyalty from Ramon. David was so richly blessed with devotion, yet he chose the one snake in his midst to believe and trust in - Graciela.

How ironic that I found the scenes between Adolfo and Lilian and Lilian and Marta the most compelling touching. I have to admit, my eyes teared up. Perhsps I am in the minority, but Lili did not deserve her ending. I just want to add one thing. Although Marta put her hand on the glass that separated her and Lili, I do not believe that Lili did put her hand up to "touch" Marta's. Am I wrong?

The ending was true to the story. There could not have been a joyous, rapturous ending as those were not elements of this story. Never have I seen a main couple so lacking passion and desire. There never was a moment where I believed they would move heaven and earth to be together. To have this end with one kiss was sad, but really did we expect anything else? We were more starved for a morsel of romantic intimacy than they ever were.

I will have more to say later but wish to thank you, Julie, dy, Delilah, Cynthia and Anita for your perseverance in providing such sparkling and scintillating reaps lo these many months.

To my fellow commenters, we shared a great camaraderie here. Your comments were always wise, heartfelt and clever.

Thank you all!

Diana
 

Thank You Urban. Carito is really cute when they let her be.

So Adolfo is selling the San Diego apt to spend on attorney fees, and just shitcanning the half a million dollars he 'Gave' Lillian.

That's $500,000 to put it into perspective. Unbelievable.
 

Thanks, Diana.

I don't think that Lillian and Marta's hands were up at exactly the same time. I agree that this scene was masterfully played by both actresses. This is the accord that Brian was looking to facilitate because Fernando didn't deserve the love or loyalty of either of these women.

I agree that Lillian didn't deserve this fate. She is punishing herself for having raised DisGrace in Lisa's shadow which led to such an exaggerated sense of entitlement accompanied by a complete lack of conscience. When she shoved DisGrace on the Staircase of Doom it didn't look forceful enough to guarantee its outcome. The writers could have ended it differently by having Fernanda or someone like Cesar show up to hear the screechfest that would have ensued, especially if DisGrace had an injury like a broken ankle. David should have heard her yell that she would have killed Lillian if that had been necessary to get him, but Fernanda probably told him that later (although we didn't see it).

The worst legal punishment Lillian would have deserved would have been however long she would have gotten for embezzlement and maybe manslaughter. However, the lack of an eyewitness made it easy for the police to take her at her word, which she can't change her mind about later on. David's decree that she never see his children again is completely understandable. Despite the way this played out and although we heard no fallout from it, there had to have been news stories about this with the result that Bobby would have heard crap about this from classmates. David should have been shown taking a proactive move to see to it that he got support from the school psychologist and that his teacher had gotten a heads-up to head any bullying off at the pass.

Kirby, since that half-million was blackmail money paid (or to have been paid) to Juan, it would have been seized at his arrest and returned after the red tape was cut, along with the million that DisGrace had paid him out of her own funds. That might have taken a while. The courts would also return everything he had embezzled from David, which would mean the olive grove. This means that David would have had a major financial recovery which could mean bigger business success to come if managed wisely.
 

The half million dollars was deposited into Grace's banking account. Since she is now dead, Lillian would inherit the money, since she is the closest relative.

So, Lil is able to give Adolfo back his money.
 

Urban, yeah, in a perfect world I suppose the money could happen like you describe, this is a TN. A few episodes ago they had already given the Olive Garden to David, but I suspected the DisGrace checks probably bounced, and the half mil cash was hidden where it could not be found.

Return everything he had embezzled from David? HA ! That money was spent loooong ago. When David made a few phone calls and the Olive business dried up he and Perla were already broke, so that money is gone forever.

And Miggy the Beggar....the slobbering toe-sucking leg-humping mutt is true to the end. What Erika saw in him is beyond me.
 

Muchisimas Gracias, Urbanita! And a hearty thanks to your spectacular team of devoted rcappers: dy77, Cynthia, Julie, Delilah, Sonia, and Anita!

She went to Luciana's seat and hugged her. Marta sat at the other end of the table, where Lillian once sat. Sonia was sitting at her right. [Where are Ramón, León, and Tano?]

So! the damned servants done just took over the place, hunh? JK

Urban, I agree on mostly all your karmageddon ratings but I agree with Diana on one:

Perhsps I am in the minority, but Lili did not deserve her ending. I just want to add one thing. Although Marta put her hand on the glass that separated her and Lili, I do not believe that Lili did put her hand up to "touch" Marta's. Am I wrong?

Lil didn't push Gracie. She was trying to stop her from going after Fernanda and going to David. I think this is another off the cuff element the writers threw in just like they changed, hacked and reconstructed the relationships between the nanny goats. I DO agree with what you said here about the fall from grace:

At worst this was 2nd degree, which would get her 20 years with time off for good behavior and it could be described as Manslaughter, for which the sentence could be less. It was not a premeditated act and that it ended in DisGrace's death was not inevitable.

Whatever. And I think Marta SHOULD have been a villain. All through this she acted as if she had a RIGHT to be screwing Fernando. Her youth at marraige is no excuse and I don't buy that she was seduced. She had a loving husband providing for her and (what he through was) their children. I think she rightly took responsibility for hurting Lil, disrespecting Lil's family and "putting both our families at risk." She even said that she always understood Lil's hatred of her and put up with it because, in her core she KNEW SHE DESERVED IT.

So Lilian started the apology to Marta blaming her own preoccupation with revenge and hatred of Marta on her inability to see what was around her, i.e. Grace's evil. What would have happened if Marta had offered the above apology years ago: would that not have freed up mental and emotional energy for Lil to see what was happening around her? Yah. The re-working of the Lil/Fernando/Marta/Marcos thing was more than flawed. Marta worked the victim thing, helped keep Lil in bitchmode, poured fuel on the fire every chance she got and only apologized once she was sure Lil was out of the way for good so she become The Abuela like she always wanted.
 

Anyway, agree the competition between Mig and Dud til the end was unnecessary and annoying, makes me feel nothing but contempt for the character, Miguel. Still don't respect Dud and what was Luci's "status" as she and her momma sat there at the table? Fer said she was glad "they were together". Are they shacking up, like momma? It was not an "awww" moment when Ramon asked Marta to move in with him. He knows what she thinks about marraige vows, so I guess that was a smart move. Interesting that these writers who trashed marriage all through this piece deigned to let there be one successful marriage: that between two "hopeless romantics." The other planned wedding was disastrously and spectacularly aborted, as we know.

So Fernanda got a lot of face time, begging for forgiveness for her role in Graciela's puppetry. Agree Grace got off "easy." Dud also did his share of begging for forgiveness but did he ask !Lisa for forgiveness?

“Thank you for listening to me,” he said, as he began to cry. “and for not letting me marry Graciela. I can't believe what she did to you. Because of her you aren't here.

No, Dud. Juan and stilletos on stairs kept you from marrying Grace and it was the only thing that could do so. Because of YOU and Graciela, Lisa is not here. Essentially, he has told Luci, "I'll be with you over Grace's dead body." Glad she admitted he was just like he was when she returned from Mexico. Whatever again. The tooth-baring kiss at the end was appropriate: the two most mis-matched lovers in novela history trying to gnaw each other's face off.

You said it best, Urban, to sum up this story:

There should have been less fondling of grapes and more of human flesh.

Let's heave a deep sigh. The national nightmare is over. Time to heal.

Thank you VEA Team and a Rocking Patio!!

 

It was just bizarre at breakfast with Luciana sitting in Graciela's place and Marta in Lilian's. One dies and one goes to jail so you promote from within to fill a spot. It would have made some sense if Luciana was Fernando's daughter and Marta the step grandmother but a second choice field hand and the nanny. Will Marta continue to live with Ramon in town or leave him high and dry and move into Lilian's room?
 

Agree Lila, Marta was a villain. Marta frustrated and taunted Lilian for years, with Fernando, with Brian and her relationship with the kids. Marta was as much a climber demanding her place and willing to shove Lilian out and held a death grip on her spot so she didn't lose it when her own child was deported.
 

I think that whatever money Juan was spending would not have been enough to deplete the olive grove. He was also in a position to not use credit cards or anything traceable, so his funds were limited. He wasn't exactly staying in 5-star hotels, either. Remember that he had been embezzling for years.

Still another example of novelas not quantifying the actual a$$et$ of their characters. I used to complain about this but I understand the reason for it.

One thing that I neglected to mention in the discussion of the previous episode, which was that the Staircase of Doom scene was shot in pieces. When Lillian took off after DisGrace she was wearing her heels but when she came down the stairs after the fall she was barefoot. We would have heard her remove her shoes. Not that this makes any difference to the outcome, but it is a continuity error someone should have caught.

As to whether David and Luciana were married in the final two scenes, good question. I wonder whether many viewers complain about end-scene weddings and they decided to defy the cliche once in a while. This wasn't a good choice to begin that.

Does anyone know the rate of cohabitation in Mexico? I can't imagine that most would disapprove of two empty-nesters like Ramon and Marta deciding to do this an we don't know whether they moved in with David and Luciana or are just visiting for Sunday breakfast.
 

I looked and David didn't have a ring on during the FIN and know he wore one when married to Lisa. He made a big production of removing it.
 

"Interesting that these writers who trashed marriage all through this piece deigned to let there be one successful marriage: that between two "hopeless romantics" and "Essentially, he has told Luci, "I'll be with you over Grace's dead body."

So powerful Lila. Awesome.

Diana
 

Adolfo actually hiring a lawyer for Lilian, even if he ultimately couldn't do anything obvious for her, was a pretty big thing IMO. If he actually sold her apartment to do it, going off a cursory check, he'd only be down about half of the $500k he gave her...which means he ate a quarter-million-dollar debt, possibly only temporarily, for the woman he cared about. It makes me wonder if the show could have skipped forward a few years La rosa de Guadalupe-style to see Lilian getting out of prison for good behavior/parole, Adolfo being there to welcome her, and maybe David and/or Fernanda observing from out of sight.

Apart from Fernanda going to see Lil, unless I missed it, Carito jumping to Vinedo de Competencia was edited out of the US airing as well. So if the show had to insist on dragging the triangle out to the literal end of itself, we could have been given one quick scene of Miguel working in the MPR and the newly-hottified (seriously, Yanet Sedano looked about five years older and really good in that short pink dress) Carito bringing him some tea or something to dot that last lingering I.

All that said, while Luciana coming to see David and their resulting conversation could and probably should have been the actual finale or at least the lead-in to the final scene as we saw it, that would have meant moving Sonia and Leon's wedding up (which I doubt anyone would have had a problem with, because Best Couple absolutely deserved a little more of an extended happy ending) and punctuating it strictly with all the prison stuff (see previous). Ramon finally convincing Marta to move away from BdLA could literally have been stuffed anywhere else; Marta forking FINALLY APOLOGIZING FOR THE AFFAIR, however, should have happened so much earlier it's hilarious and sad all at once that it popped up when it did (and as much as it was glossed over on Luciana and Leon's end, Marta really needed to apologize to poor dead sainted Marcos about that). Then again, Show also punctuated all this with the Miguel/Luci/David triangle, so...

Juan's ultimate fate was, honestly, about as expected. It could've gone without the So Obviously Gringo cops so blatantly going "Nah, we're gonna let this go, he killed the sheriff" or at least had them walk out or something, but his future being full of nonstop beatdowns and not outright being whacked in prison was probably fitting for him and the generally workaday tone of the show (mishandled as it was so, so often).

And having said that: UA, I agree with your earlier statement that this finale would probably have been much stronger if the writers hadn't dropped the ball...repeatedly...prior to it. It still succeeded in spite of them, thanks to the cast, but wow.
 

"And Miggy the Beggar.... What Erika saw in him is beyond me".

You can't help but wonder Kirby. Miguel was at his best when he was with Erica. During that all too brief interlude when he was not obviously obsessed with Luci (although he may still have been emotionally)he was an appealing character. He had many good qualities including being a loyal and devoted friend and ally. But he never understood when to give up. I can see baring your heart and soul once. But the continual pleading where he gave up his last shred of dignity was hard to watch.

Diana
 

Tofie, we posted at the same time and our comments echo one another. Yah, it was weird with Luci and Marta at the table. It didn't feel triumphant or warm and fuzzy at all. Like I said earlier, if Lisa had died of cancer and then Gracie went gunning for David, I would've been on her side to keep her faaaamily together. I don't hold to cohabiting, copulating with and marrying one's brothers- and sisters-in-laws but I wouldn't have begrudged these characters that. Marta and Luci DID take over the family, necessarily facilitated by Grace murdering Lisa and Lil "murdering" Grace. Whatevs.
 

Thank you, Urban, for this last ride into the sunset. Another excellent recap of all the happenings. Thanks also to all the recappers for their time, talent, and effort. Also, a shout out to my patio peeps for comments that always put a few giggles in my day. Our time outside the assistant principal's office was not wasted . Doritos and vino for everyone!!!

I was a little let down by the finale. I knew that Lu would go running to sad Dave. Does IB 's contract have a limit on the number of kisses she must give the galan and\or galans? Let's face it, the love(?) Scenes between Dave and Disgraceful were so much hotter. The one thing that Dave did not say in his tearful confession and plea for forgiveness to Lu was that Grace was sooooo hot and that he had never been bunnyhopped like that before. Forgive me , mi amor for I am weakwilled , and sometimes my brain is not the part of me doing the decision-making working !!!!!

My favorite part was the wedding. Cubby looked adorable, and Sonia was beautiful . I loved her tasteful , simple dress and that gorgeous wrap.


They should have just shown Miguel gracefully saying goodbye to Lu and paying attention to Carito.

I do not like seeing anyone beat up..even Juan

Urban, regarding men reading romance novels, I frequent a site called Compuserve Outlander where there are several men who join in the discussions of that historical romance series . They are all men who have been married for many years , and they always side with the first husband!!! I think that they are getting some good advice about what women find romantic .

Okay..I am off to give the speaking final. Later.
 

Lila: Marta, to the end, rivaled David (and a case may be made that she surpassed him at times) as the most inadvertently damaged character on the show. And it was either deliberate or spectacularly accidental; the writers kept trying to place her as the put-upon wise nana who loved her (ahem) kids more than she hated her lifelong enemy, but the neverending war of words between them backfired and then blew the engine up the minute the affair came out and was almost never clarified. She was never supposed to be a villain, and definitely not a conscious one, but...there we were, for about half the show, and even Brian's declaration that Fernando used her and Lilian didn't help because Marta was never shown to be regretful for any of it. She was regretful because it came out.

Maybe that's why she was rocking the #clogsofinfinitepenitence so much; she knew she was a villain, though it took her rival going to forking jail for her to admit it.
 

Eloquently and clearly stated, Bill!

"The Curse is Lifted" is an apt title in many ways, Urban. For the conflicted characters, of which Marta and Dave were just two and the weird "finish" to use winey terminology: It's a lurking feeling that Bad Grace and Lil were right and what they feared DID happen and Luci DOESN'T belong seated next to Dave and Marta at the opposing head of the table. Is THAT accidental, or deliberate? Maybe it's just me. From where they are now, Grace looking up through dirt and Lil through bars, Marta and Luci were the curse, and they the damned.
 

I think that Miguel was given more screen time because the actor is likable and hot. He has only one series credit prior to this and it doesn't look like a novela, so Televisa was probably testing his appeal as a future galan. I think he passed. He's handsome, has a hot bod, and will probably be the next Jorge Salinas if he has the same depth and emotional range.

As for pairing Miguel with Carito, I was never in favor of that. Initially it was because of her mean-girl crap directed at the undeserving Luciana, but later it was the realization that she has no charisma. No matter how good a person she became she would be mousy compared to what we know Miguel to be attracted to: Smart chicks with personality who can get things done.

Marta genuinely loves Fernanda and Bobby. Nobody can be a successful nanny if she doesn't love the children she cares for. As I mentioned in the previous discussion there is often a displacement of the children's affection from a parent or grandparent to a nanny.Marta's nanny duties were not completely full-time when Lisa was alive, but became so after her death. Since Lillian didn't behave as a standard grandmother to the children, she was in no position to object.

Lila, do you mean to say that Luciana doesn't deserve David? I would agree if you meant she deserved better but this sounds like you think Luciana's degree means nothing and she should be just digging dirt at less than minimum wage.
 

Very interesting comments.

Kirby..again with the toesucking!

I thought the scene at the fammmiiilllyyy table with slightly different fammmiiilllyyy members felt odd. Evidently, Tano, Cubby, and Ramon are not considered fammmiiilllyyy and still eat in the employees' bunkhouse.

So..Ramon and Marta are going to live together. We don't know if Dave and Lu will tie the knot. We have no idea what happens between Soosan and Cesar..married? , living together? No pregnancy news from anyone. I guess the world of telenovelas is changing just as the real world is. The finales used to always be about happy brides and grooms at happy weddings, happy pregnancies, happy bouncing babies. I am especially thinking about the Alborada finale which incorporated all those happy things. Sigh.

I felt a little depressed by the ending .... kind of...meh.
 

Urban..yes, you have a point about Carito. To quote Julie, she lacks the zazz. I also agree that the actor playing Miguel is a hottie.
 

I actually think now that Dave and Lu belong together. They both lack the zazz and can take long naps together not kissing after working on the vino . snooze zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I'll be at Cubby's new restaurant reading Sonia's spicy novel.
 

Urban, I also agree about the bond between a grandmother and grandchild. My maternal grandmother lived with our family , and I was very close to her. Closer than I was to my mother.
 

Urban No, that the final scene feels weird doesn't have anything to do with Luciana's degree. All the intrigue and the toxic environment Marta helped maintain in the house and David being absolutely unable to see what Cesar, Susan AND Luciana was saying about Graciela, his profound density of mind and now being plunged back into a state, by his own admission, which is worse than when she first came back from Mexico: All this makes David damaged goods and, as I said before, someone she could only get over Grace's dead body. No. I'm not saying BLA is to good for her, it's too toxic and laden with the heavy baggage of lies, deceit, manipulation and murder. Marta's happy being their with "her" children. Luci could do better -- and not that damned shameless Miguel -- it would have been nice if SHE inherited some or all of the land that her Dad worked so hard for but that would cause too much reconstruction of the story.

Planning a big faaaamily shindig for this weekend or maybe I could come up with an alternate ending that involved HER inheriting some prime real estate instead of that needy beggar, Miguel.

Another thing is her status, again. There she is, dressed like she always is, there are no visible signs that she has been "given her place.": it would have been nice if there'd been some indication that she had a higher status position at the vineyard and in the family. According to them BLA AND BSB would have been sunk without her. So, is she back juggling multiple jobs and putting out fires like before, she just "gets to sit at the table" in the Big House?

OK. . overthinking. . .gotta go do stuff!
 

Luciana dresses at her comfort level. If that's breakfast, she's dressed for work. There's no one left in the house who objects to her place at the table.

Alternate Endings should be submitted to me via e-mail so I can post them Friday and Saturday. I am going to work on mine later.

BTW, I have heard that La Candidata will be delayed yet again to 5/29, which is Memorial Day. This is not good.
 

Thanks, Urban!! "Men reading romance novels? That would seriously improve the human race." Your recounting of the gran final had more sparkle in it than the real thing, I mean that sincerely. And the pictures were excellent.

You are correct, Urban - the full moon was the only moon in this novela. The budget was so tight they couldn't even afford a waxing crescent!

I did enjoy seeing Juan get his just deserts, and it was nice to see Sonia and Leon get married, and I loved the scene with Lil and Marta. The rest of it, for me, was just meh.

I am left wondering how Miguel was able to finally give up on Luciana so graciously. Did something happen to change his mind? Did he grow too tired to continue the pursuit? Did he get an overnight visit from three ghosts?

Why did Lilian greet Marta with "que haces aqui"? According to Marta, Lil called her.

I haven't read any comments yet. Probably won't till after lunch... I'll call it dessert!
 

UA: The Gran Final was obviously chopped-up by Univision once again UGH!

I did enjoy the wedding of Cougar Sonia & her Cub Leon :) SWEET!

Julie: I also enjoyed watching Juan getting his ass kicked by the other prisoners, who didn't like what he did to the immigrants, etc.,

I believe it's highly likely Miguel & Carito ended up together & continued working at Adolfo's.

Lila: FerBrat asked for Luciana's forgiveness. If I was Luciana, I would've said to her :"GOODBYE FELICIA!" & never look back.


 

"I am left wondering how Miguel was able to finally give up on Luciana so graciously."

I bet he hasn't and every time he sees her hoping for a sad face and if not grills her on the relationship looking for a perceived mistreatment he can exploit. I hope Luciana has stopped discussing her relationship with David with him.
 

BODY COUNT:

1.) Lisa Robles

2.) Marcos Munoz

3.) Immigrants at the Smuggling Fields

4.) El Coyote

5.) Don Fernando Palacios

6.) Mark Evans AKA OJ Mark

7.) Carito's Cousin

8.) Erika Ballesteros

9.) Juan's Hired Thugs

10.) Sonoma County, CA Sheriff Brian Gutierrez AKA I'm Ashamed of Being Latino

11.) Perla Gomez

12.) Graciela Palacios: GOOD RIDDANCE!

 

When I knew the length of the finale I realized it would be missing something from the second hour. If they had to cut it down they should have cut more of Miguel's begging of Luciana and left in the scene with Fernanda visiting Lillian.
 

Urban: "I wish she had faced the Mean Girls in the Big House for a while before ending up in the ninth circle of hell." Me too, but a good lawyer probably could have gotten her an insanity plea. Whether she was truly crazy or not, she could have passed for it and could also have put on an impressive act if necessary to impress a court psychiatrist. Then again, I think the writers took some liberties with the way things work in the US (for example, I would expect that Lil's lawyer would have appealed her sentence).

I agree that Lil's fate was excessive. She is an inherently miserable person, so she would have ended up miserable forever no matter what kind of punishment she got, even house arrest. She'd probably have to get a job and/or find someone to marry.

Speaking of Lil having plenty of spare time: I wonder if Marta will visit her frequently and they'll chat about the kids and Lil will read all of Sonia's novels and refuse to admit to anyone that she likes them.

And I agree with Urban's later comment that it was Fernando, not Marta, who destroyed Lilian's family.

I think the Miguel and Adolfo scene was missing on Univision last night. Also Fernanda/Lilian, I think. And I believe they actually cut the scene in the MPR where Mig asked Luci to marry him! Which, uh, thanks for sparing us, Univision, but I thought that was actually kind of important?

Tofie: "Who would have thought, not me, the best cocktail party, intellectual discussion, comedy routine, confessional and slumber party I've ever experienced would be here discussing Mexican TN's." No kidding! And I agree they could have stopped when Luci went in to see David.

If Marta is living in an apartment in town with Ramon, what is she doing at David's breakfast table? If she just came over for a social breakfast, why isn't Ramon with her? That was weird.
 

I think the Miguel and Adolfo scene was missing on Univision last night. Also Fernanda/Lilian, I think. And I believe they actually cut the scene in the MPR where Mig asked Luci to marry him!

They DID, Julie! Weird! I don't know, do they usually cut from the finale? Someone above also noted other chopped scenes right in the beginning. What a turn off!

:/
 

Susanlynn, you are right - no one was (or lied that were) pregnant here. I think this might be a TN first for me.

You and Julie both mentioned "meh" a few times. I concur.

Veronica/Sonia is amazing. While a gifted comedienne, I have no doubt she could tackle and succeed in a straight dramatic role.

I hope Lili does read Sonia's novels Julie. She will have plenty of time. In her situation, it might be best to live and dream in a pure fantasy world, rather than in her real one.

Diana
 

Steve: Thank you for the body count list.

Wasn't Urban's recap incredible?

Diana
 

I don't know if they always trim stuff out of finales, Lila, but for sure they have to at least sometimes. The uncut Mexican finale was around 95 minutes without commercials. To fill a two-hour slot we can only have about 80 to 85 minutes. (To fill two one-hour slots we get even less time, because they have to run the title sequence twice!)
 

Thanks to all the recappers! I only half watched VEA after ECDLP. I took a break from TNs but I'm back to watch LDVDEC. By the way, I was watching El BienAmado last night on UniMas and a commercial for La Candidata aired and said its now starting on the 29th, not the 16th.

Anyway, this finale was a mess. The only scene I enjoyed was the Marta/Lilian scene at the end. And I'm glad that the only wedding ofthe finale wasn't David and Luciana's.

Lots of loose ends and unanswered questions but I guess that's to be expected.
 

Thanks, Urban. Great job. I loved "Luciana, his angel in blue jeans"

Bravo, Urban, dy77, Cynthia, Julie, Delilah, Sonia, and Anita! Your recaps and the comments here are what kept me coming back.

Miguel: I don’t see how he and Luciana can continue being close friends, since she and David know he’s in love with her and will be no matter who else he might hook up with.

Juan: For his crimes, he deserves to be in prison. But his getting a beatdown was the same ole same ole. Would’ve been better if his tormentors had an emotional connection to him like, say, a twin brother of El Coyote’s. In the end, Juan’s best bet is to become a jailhouse lawyer. He’s got legal skills that his impoverished inmates could use. They'd go easy on him then. David was so stupid for so long and Juan was so pivotal in unmasking DisGrace that I hope this villain finds redemption eventually.

Lil: In addition to being selfish, arrogant, racist, and wasting time hating Marta (albeit for a good reason), Lil was downright lazy. Didn't even left her butt from the seat to search when Bobby was missing (hiding under the bed). I would've like to see her on the prison work crew, scrubbing toilets.

David and Luciana: I'm okay with the way they're slowly getting back together. Good decision by the writers.

Sonia and Leon: Surprisingly, the best couple. Other than the foolishness when Sonia was mad cause Leon got her a book deal, they love story was fresh and entertaining. I never FFW-> them. I liked his hair too.
 

I have enjoyed reading the new comments.

Hey, am I to believe that Dr.Evil Martin Mull is still practicing his quackery since we heard nothing more about him?

I agree with some here that Lilian got a pretty harsh anvil! I did not see her actually push Grace down that staircase . It just looked like doggedly determined but delusional \crazy Grace was hastily propelling herself down to Dave so he could put a ring on it , and Lilian was trying to get a hold on her. Lilian was a bitter, lazy, greedy person, but a life sentence seems too big an anvil.

"Angel in blue jeans"... I guess Lu just feels more comfortable in jeans.



 

Did anyone else watch "Double life " last night? I could not understand the dialogue, but I have a general idea about what is happening. I hated that beginning scene...so horrible. I could not figure out the relationship between David Z. And Estella. I almost could not recognize Erica B. Because she looks so different as a brunette.
 

Thank you, Urban, and all the other great recappers on this tn. You all did a brilliant job with a tn that never really lived up to the promise of its romantic title and setting. I watched this last episode, and was not surprised that it was "meh" all the way to the end. You recappers were WAY too good for this show.

My favorite scene was the Marta-Lil scene. Both actresses sold it, even if the story leading up to that moment was silly and vapid.

The people NOT selling their supposed feelings were Dave and Luci. There wasn't a single scene they were in together that I was buying that these two people love/are passionate about each other, or that they even like each other. No chemistry, whatsoever. They left it all to Sultry Sonia and her Lion Cub. Loved this couple and glad their happily ever after was shown with some detail.

I didn't really watch this one, but I did lurk from time to time on this patio and enjoyed all the recaps and comments. Thanks again, amigos!
 

Susanlynn - I watched Double Life too. The opening with the gun at the school was indeed horrible (kept reminding myself it's only TV and that guy is an American actor who used to be a professional wrestler). It seems the real "Estella" could clear David Z's prison sentence but phony "Estella" is all there is. I liked Erica B as a brunette and that black suit looked good on her.

Back to Vino. ITA that Lil did not push DisGrace. DisGrace fell and in the heat, horror, and guilt of the moment, Lil blurted out a confession. I don't see why a good lawyer can't make that case for her. There were no witnesses.
 

OFF TOPIC: Doble Vida

Susanlynn- I did watch the first episode last night. The real name of Estela Carrillo is Laura Oviedo. Laura bought the identity (SS number, DOB info) of Estela Carrillo a few years back when she wanted to stop working under the table as an illegal, and get a real, decent paying job. She eventually got the music teacher job at the foundation that works with Latino youth in her Riverside community.

When the shooting happens at the foundation, "Estela" is hailed as a hero and the press wants to interview her. Of course Laura/Estela has NO desire to be put on tv, for fear that her real identity will be revealed (we also saw in flashback that she fled a man who was trying to harm/kill her back in Mexico). Ryan is in jail for manslaughter, for which he claims he's innocent and the REAL Estela Carrillo is the witness who can clear him. Unfortunately, the real Estela has been missing for the last few years and his lawyer and P.I. have had no luck finding her-- until the news reports about the shooting. Ryan has his people investigate, and they find that the SS # and ID are a match to the Estela he's been searching for. Ryan orders them to bring Estela to him so that he can speak to her and ask her to testify on his behalf during his upcoming trial. Of course Laura/Estela has no intention of doing this, until she receives a summons from the D.A. to testify. By the end of the episode, she decides she has no choice but to speak to this Ryan dude, which leads to the last scene in the prison when a shocked Ryan says she's NOT Estela, and Laura/Estela says she isn't, but she's still his only salvation (ticket out of jail).
 

Hey, Vivi! ;D
 

Hey, Lila! :)
 

Love your new photo, Vivi! As a native Northern Californian (whose mother's first cousin was the Sonoma city manager many years ago), I hope the real Sonoma police/jailers don't behave as unprofessionally as the ones in this show. Sometimes it's good that tn world doesn't reflect the real one.
 

Vivi !!! Hello!!! And thanks do much for providing that recap. I got some of what was going on just by the visual, but I was completely in the dark about David's character. Is Ryan the son of the character Erica B. Is playing? She seemed to be a rich business woman. Also, who is the sunglasses dude ? I do not get Unimas, so I cannot watch LA Candida. I will watch Double. Thanks again, Vivi. Hope that you and yours are well. I have missed sharing a telenovela with you. Vino was not good, but the recappers and commenters were great, so I had a fun time here on the patio.

Niecie..I watch telenovelas to escape reality , so that opening scene really turned me off . However, I like some of the cast, so I am going to keep watching at least for awhile!
 

Vivi, thank you so much for your sweet summary on Dobla.

I watched it and found it darker than I had anticipated.

I may continue to watch until LC comes on. LC was not my first choice (although I love SG), but I really have no idea what is going on without the recaps.

Hope you are well. So nice to "see" you again. You've been missed.

Diana
 

I sort-of watched Doble Vida, but didn't pay much attention to it. But I couldn't help noticing the lavish sets. That one episode looked to have a bigger budget than the entire run of VEA.
 

I watched Doble Vida and liked it including the lavish multiple sets and this in just one episode.
 

I bet Doble Vida will get a multi-phase moon, and every room will have its very own sofa, no sharing. But I bet they won't have a professional brainwasher who looks like Martin Mull!
 

DOBLE VIDA:

Susanlynn- Yes, Erika ("Mercy") is playing David's ("Ryan's") mom. She's been running their family-owned music business by herself, since her husband's death and son's incarceration, and is pretty proud of that. Now her husband's other son (from a lover) has rolled into town, ready to hear the reading of his dad's will and to get his cut of the pie, and she's NOT happy about it. It seems she's delayed the will reading until Ryan gets out of jail, which she seems pretty certain will happen.
 

OT - DOBLE VIDA:

Vivi - thanks for the rundown. Now that I know more interesting stuff about Mercy, I will have to check it out again tonight. The son from a lover (who played the scheming son of Colunga's from PyP) was a hoot with his ego ("No one's going to carry my luggage?").

 

OT- Doble Vida:

I know I said I probably wouldn't but I feel bad that some of you won't be able to watch or fully understand the show without the recaps. Anyone but myself and Juju down to recap? Even if it's a small bullet point recap? I would take on more but I currently do 3 for La Piloto and can't do multiple recaps for now.
 

Alfredo..thank you ! That is so on nice of you to offer ! You are a prince! Double looks pretty interesting with a good cast of a lot of familiar faces. Bullet points would be more than great. I can get some of the story from the visual, but I do not understand much of the dialogue. Vivi..thanks for the further explanation. I always enjoy Erica, and it is a very interesting plot point that there is an illegimate son in the mix. Didn't the actor have the same role in PyP?

Julie..I hope that you watch Double. I would miss your wit and wisdom. It's worth watching for all the rooms and sofas.
 

Thanks for all the extra info!

I'll echo Susanlynn Alfredo. Very kind of you to offer to put up bullet points when you are able. You are a great recapper.

Diana
 

Urban, an amazing recap. You did it with heart my dear. I want to say thank You to all the recapers.Cynthia, lila, Julie, dy77, Delilah,Anita. You guys are golden. You ranted with us, & you laughed with us,made us laugh too. UrThe tops.There was a whole lot of repenting, And they meant it too.I was sorry for David, fer.A lot of hidden truths came Out that I wished had come out sooner Than later, but now is good a time as Any.But the truth about what Gracie Did, she should have been made to face David. She murdered his wife her sister out Of jealousy. The girl was sick and she Was enabled by her messed up momma. Fer Dodged a bullet cuz she was almost following In tia's footsteps.Not good.

Miguel,as pushy as always,I was really really gettin sick of him beggin.Stop.
Maybe he and Clarita connected. Since
She ended up workin at SBV. We'll have
To assume.

I loved that conversation lil & marta
Had. Both of these ol biddies screwed
Up, one more the the other. But they
Both owned it,and had closure.Its good
To have closure.

Juan Juan juan, what can I say about
Juan. He deserves everything he's got
Comin to him.And he's scared to death. He Might get that too.

Sweet Adolfo. He'll make some woman very happy. And Miguel and Clarita can
Give him grandchillin.
That presentation David gave Luciana
Was rather romantic. I was hoping mig
Wouldn't come back and spoil it.

The wedding was nice and simple. Marta is a pretty woman. I was surprised they just wanted to live together. I thought Ramon was going to ask her to marry him,being that age and all.Ok Im old-fashioned.
Forgiveness is good.Its freeing,and it
Allows one to move forward. These folk
Did a lot of asking and a lot of forgiving. Thats a good thing.they moved on.
☆THANK YOU URBAN☆
 

You're very welcome!

Vivi, can I copy and paste your summary of the first episode?
 

I watched double last night,on and off
I saw the preview week before last, so
It didn't have that first time wow factor like tonite will.But it's really peaked my interest. Im watchin it. I like the actors
 

Alfredo- Sure!

I'm on a self-imposed mini tn break. Cutting back on watching, and definitely no recapping for a bit.
 

Hey I went back and watched the scene where lisa's picture was in the forefront while lil was holdin grace,I
I did not see it. I watched it a few times it just wasn't there.I was watching it on demand I didn't see it no I saw the picture frame on the end table when David and fer came in the camera kind of spanned around and I could see the end table in the picture frame from afar but as for Lisa's picture being in the Forefront while lil was Rockin Gracie like she was with Lisa. I didn't see that at all it must be showing yall stuff where y'all are there they're not showing stuff where we are. Im in North Florida. Didn't see, but thanks for the screencap.
 

Nina, I got that screencap (photo of Lisa in front of Lil and Grace) from the Mexican version. If you didn't see it OnDemand, that is the Univision version, they must have cut it out.

I didn't think Univision had cut anything from Friday night's half of the finale, but I didn't check.
 

Urban she did tell her dad later thatgrace killed her mom, and he said I know, cuz Juan told him in the cava.
This is when they were entering the living room where lil was holding grace, she told him. Maybe somebody else caught that too.
 

Thank you Juls, they them sissors girl.
 

OT - Alfredo - I told Juju that I'd be willing to help with discussion headers but not recapping. She never replied to that, and there was no recap or discussion header for last night, so I am not sure what the plan is. Perhaps Juju intended only to volunteer to recap, and not to head the team. Email me (click my name) and we'll figure something out?
 

I take it Double Life is taking VEA's place, coming on right after La Reina de la All You Can Eat Buffet?
 

VINO EL FIN
I'm late, speechless and dumbfounded - NOT. It was a bit of a snoozer, mopping up after all the blood on Friday. I had visions of Marta doing it. So far, I agree, they should not have broken up the finale into two separate days--and over a weekend AND changing the time. Will have something to add on the morrow after reading the recap and all the comments. Now it's off to watch whatever.

Julie--it seems Vivi did the first episode of Doble Vida. When Camino came on, we had no recappers, but Jane put up discussion page for us that often included portions of what could be considered a recap. At first they lasted all week and I volunteered to do the posting each week. Then Jane asked us to do it twice a week like Telemundo does. Then we added recappers as we went along and the rest is history!

Good Luck you folks that don't have Unimas for LaCan and will be watching Doble Vida. I know Uni puts up the episodes a couple of days late (or maybe more?). Anyway, you could follow along with the recaps that are already done.

I urge everyone who can to watch Silvia Navarro in her return to DRAMA.
 

Good Evening, Everyone.

With all the great commentary and discussions, there isn’t very much more to add. I did some reflecting and tried to figure out what the writers’ purpose was for this disaster. As so many have stated, this TN just didn’t live up to our expectations…or its title. SO, I wrote down all the couples/possible couples and rated them with a simple pass/fail with some commentary…here is what I got—

Lillian/Fernando Failed Due to deception and death
Marta/Fernando Failed Due to deception and death
Marta/Marcos Failed due to deception (even though Marcos didn’t know) and death
Lisa/Juan Failed due to unrequited love
Lisa/David Failed due to death
Grace/Cesar Failed due to unrequited love
Grace/Joselo Failed due to unrequited love
Grace/David Failed due to deception and death
Susan/Tano Failed due to wrong timing, fear...whatever
Susan/Cesar Passed but no marriage…and were they really in love??
Fernanda/Peter Failed due to unrequited love
Fernanda/Tano Passed (hopeful)
Bobby/Little Girl Failed due to age/lack of experience(s)
Carito/Miguel Failed due to unrequited love
Carito/Leon Failed due to unrequited love
Lillian/Brian Failed due to unrequited love and death
Marta/Brian Failed due to deception and death
Marta/Ramon Passed (barely—Marta wasn’t really in love with him) no marriage
Lillian/Adolfo Failed due to unrequited love
Perla/Juan Failed due to death
Sonia/Leon Passed YAYYY!! …and no baggage
Luciana/Miguel Failed (2x: pre-Erika and post-Erika) due to unrequited love
Luciana/David Passed with lots of baggage and, as stated previously, over Grace’s
dead body

Given THAT, yes, my fellow commenters, we were completely misled!! Better titles would have been: “Vino El (Des)Amor”, “Vino El Amor…y Se Fue”..or something like that..I’m sure you all have come up with better titles.

Julie and Nina: I watched Part 1 of the grand finale on Univision (on Friday) and I did see the picture of Lisa in front of dead Grace being held by Lilian.

Now…off to see Doble Vida...have a nice evening!!!

RC

 

Awww...my spacing messed up on the list when I posted...oh well...
 

RC! Neat list! When you lay it all out, the "couples" it IS very dismal, isn't it? Wow.

Nina, I didn't recap this one but Sonia did! Please add her name to your list for thanks. I remember her great recaps and how Urban would call her "our Sonia!"

;)
 

I forgot one:

Erika/Miguel Failed due to illness/death (Juan's plague)

RC
 

Did anyone notice that the photo of Lisa David was staring at at one point was a picture of Nuria from A Que No Me Dejas? I'm starting to think her and Lisa were switched at birth.
 

Thank you Sonia for you recaps. Im sure Ive read some.You guys are really
Good at what you do for us. I wouldn't
Know what the heck was goin on if not
For your brilliance in tellin a story. Many Many thanks to all of you. I didn't see that photo cuz uni chopped if off Over here. But it was the same photo David was talkin and cryin to in the Family room when Lucy came back to see David. Lisa looked pretty pisst off in That photo.Well she'll rest well knowin that Her babies are safe with lucy. Something I noticed when Lillian was in the jail when she was saying she failed Lisa she was looking up to heaven and then when she said race's name she looked down, sorta. Ok I'll Read you guys later. Thank you all.
 

Sonia, you recapped this one, ok I'll get It right. I'm sorry girl you done good. gracias! gracias! Sonia : )
 

Urban, thank you so much for your grand finale recap on Vino. I meant to comment yesterday, but I was so darn busy at work. Mondays and Tuesdays are my extreme busy days and I just didn't have the time to get to commenting. Anyway, it's been a pleasure being on this team you have headed up and I think our other recappers have done a fantastic job.

There is very little that I can say that hasn't already been said here about the final episode. At least we got one lovely wedding, but I was disappointed that our main couple didn't have a grand finale wedding.

I've said this before, but another thing that bothers me is the way that this novela looks at U.S. laws and specifically California laws. With Lilian's case, just because she made a statement to the police doesn't give her life in prison. Any defense attorney would have told her to plead "not guilty" and asked for a trial. A jury would have decided if it was 2nd degree murder (1st degree is premeditated) or voluntary manslaughter, or even involuntary manslaughter. Then David told Juan that killing a police officer was a "federal crime". No, it's a state crime because Brian was a county sheriff, not a federal officer. I guess the writers don't know the difference between the word federal crime and felony. Even though Juan wasn't the one who pulled the trigger, he is still guilty of a felony murder because he commissioned the thugs to go after Carito, but in the scuffle, they killed Brian instead. A quick look at California Penal Code would have given a clue to the writers. It bothers me that they did not bother to do their research.

I would loved to have seen a lot more romance in this story. But it just seems like we got a lot of fighting instead. At the end, I cannot tell if Luciana and David were just going to be living together or if they were going to get married. I wish too, that we would have known the fate of Carito and if she and Miguel decided to have a relationship.

All in all, I have to hand it to the actors who did a wonderful job with their parts, especially Kimberly Dos Ramos and Azela Robinson.

I am so looking forward to "La Candidata". Thank you again Urban for keeping us together and so organized. :)

In another post I had thanked our recapping team, but I completely forgot about thanking Sonia because I forgot the person's name who was on our recapping team. So a thank you to Sonia who started out with us. Sorry I had forgotten you were with us.
 

“Vino El Amor…y Se Fue”

RC, thanks for my afternoon laugh!
 

Cynthia, thanks for this.

I am wondering whether the writers had ever given a thought to whether this novela would attract more US viewers because of the location of the story. It makes little difference to me because I love seeing Mexican locations and I'll watch anything with a good story and a good cast. It was the cast of this series that kept me hooked in because there honestly were times that I wanted to bail. The writing was substandard for not only the things you mentioned but for the inconsistencies created by the failure to plan the backstories of the characters. That is often a risk with characters who start off with teen and adult children, but was so poorly handled by this writing team who could not make up their minds about this until they created major confusion, maybe even for themselves.

The absence of romance in this story is also a huge mystery to me. Did IB and GS not get along on the set? Would it have helped if he looked more youthful after the time jump or after she snapped him out of his funk? Did she wish she had been cast instead as Graciela? We may never know.

Anyway, I'm glad we have La Candidata to look forward to, even if the network is moving the start date yet again. Now, back to my Alternate Ending.
 

Urban, I agree with you about the location not really mattering. When it's a Mexican location, I often marvel at the scenery, such as in ECDLP. The architecture was breathtaking and their sets were beautifully done. I agree with you too regarding IB and GS. Although he looked into her, she did not look into him and the chemistry was missing most of the time. I did not enjoy the Miguel character, but the actor did a good job with him.

Looking forward to seeing your alternate ending! :)
 

Working on it now to the music of JS Bach. I almost wish I could stay home tonight to work more on it, but tomorrow can be a near-full day.
 

Well, they did advertise this TN with the slogan "destilando el odio," so I guess that should have been our warning that there would be a lot of fighting and bitterness. But if that's what they'd planned, they could have called it "Vino el Odio."

Last night I wrote up a comment expressing my thanks to Urban, the other recappers, and the patio for making this a great recapping experience, but Blogger ate it up when I tried to post it and I didn't have the stamina to write it all again. Instead I'll post one either on the alternate endings or the postmortem.

I do want to say one thing now, though - people have said before that the worse the TN, the better the patio/recap experience. That's not always true. (FELS was a bad experience for me as a viewer, as a recapper, and as a commenter.) So, please don't take the awesomeness of this particular patio for granted. We weren't always on the same page with regard to certain characters, subplots, etc., but it never got nasty or personal and we managed to have a good time. That is NOT always the case! So thank you ALL for that!
 

I know this is very late, but to answer Urban's first question

Televisa/Venevision--there were telenovelas I know were filmed with the US as the location (although probably not interior scenes):
El Talisman
Eva Luna
A Que No Me Dejas had U.S. locations
Que Bonito Amor--it started out in the U.S.

Telemundo broadcast (don't know what co. produced them) these which were filmed in the U.S.:
Reina de Corazones
Marido en Alquiler
Silvana Sin Lana
Quien es Quien,


More stuff I'm thinking of. The wrap up was rather lame. I watched intently at the last vineyard scene of Dave and Luci. The shots were filmed close-up in such a way that neither actually had to be present for the other to speak to, except for a minimum of longer shots. I thought the hand-meld was going to be it, but I guess since it was Vino el AMOR, the contract said they had to kiss at least once more. I don't think GS enjoyed it any more than IB.

Glad Sonia and Leon got a boda, though.
 

Urban--I didn't mind my manners. Thank you for being the heroic manager for this whole tn and a top notch recapper as well. It was a privilege to work alongside all of you, recappers and commenters for the run. Perhaps commenters don't realize it, but recappers need and enjoy the feedback and comments a great deal. Good work by all.
 

Televisa should hire us to write their next one. Then maybe we'd finally have my dream series.
 

Anita- Do you remember that last closing shot in the vineyards in Cuando Me Enamoro? Renata and Jero stomping on grapes happily with all their kids. That was an ending in a vineyard where we could actually feel the love and joy. These writers should have taken notes. Cunado Me Enamor Final Scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCa5FVrXz-c
 

Vivi--of course I do. I'm in the middle of transferring the whole rebroadcast shebang to disc. It's getting near the end--Jero didn't show up for his second wedding and Ren just found out she's pregnant. I cut out a lot of scenes that didn't propel the story forward, but I didn't skip a single scene with Ren & Jero.
 

Anita- Their scenes together (when they're loving, angry, sad, or silly), are just fantastic. What a great project putting it all on disc.
 

Vivi-The only reason I wanted to do it is that the DVD version that is for sale has a lot of their playful scenes extricated.
 

Oh, Julie--don't feel so depressed about FELS. I totally agree it was a dud, but I watched it long after the original broadcast and I read every word of the recaps and the comments. Sometimes, I had tears running down my cheeks I was laughing so hard. El Tal came in a pretty close second for belly-aching laughter.