Caray, Caray!

Urban:

Great topic for a weekend discussion. There was another priest that left the Church on "Cachito de Cielo" but that involved putting an soccer player into a priest's body, think "Heaven Can Wait". At the time of the Cachito's death, he had a girlfriend and once he is in the priest's body he continues to get back with her, but is stymied by some angels. Long story short, he ends up leaving the priesthood and sort of dating his girlfriend. This storyline was unique and so different, but there was a huge backlash in Mexico over this TN. Since the country is mainly Catholic, combined with the continuing Church scandal the ratings were very bad. Not even half way through the TN they changed the storyline. It started out as a comedy and ended up being a drama. I wish they had left it as a comedy, it was so much better than the revenge laden TN it became.
 

OMG (pun intended).

That makes no sense at all. In view of Padre Alberto's solution to this they should have had him become Episcopalian and get married.

Gitanas was seen in Mexico after it aired here, but I have no idea what its ratings were. It was another example of a man who became a priest because his mother railroaded him into it. He fell in love with a beautiful gypsy widow and left the priesthood after a two-year struggle against its reluctance to let him go. Their lovemaking scene probably was the highest-rated episode of the series in the US.

What happened to the "priest" in CdC? It makes no sense to me that the angels wouldn't recognize that it was the soccer player's soul that dominated the situation and should have been what counted.
 

Good topic. Speaking of rape/incest: I really didn't like the way it was portrayed in Amor Bravio either. The character Luzma, of course, became pregnant by her uncle Leoncio but she lost the baby.

There's definitely been a lot of topics that in a way seem to try to relate to real life situations that could occur.
--TF
 

Thanks; I'll add that to the article.
 

Urban:

The priest actually died. The whole premise was the Angels messed up when Cachito was killed, it wasn't his time, so when the priest died, the Angels made a deal with Cachito so they wouldn't get in trouble and returned him back to Earth in the priest's body. The priest up there in Heaven's Waiting Room wasn't happy either, but it was his time.
 

Which makes the backlash make even less sense unless angels are supposed to be infallible. What do I know; I'm not Catholic.

Amor Bravio also touched on the the issue of religious conversion. The only other novela I can recall that being discussed in was El Clon, where it didn't happen.
 

I think the backlash had to do with the "priest" chasing the girl, even though absolutely nothing happened between them and also a soccer player in a priest's body. In "Heaven Can Wait" that didn't happen. Also Cachito even went to his Mama and told her who he really was. She asked him only things Cachito would know and then she finally believed him. It really was a very different TN, it is being shown on Uni at 2:00pm. I think the Utimate Capitulo is next Friday. It was such an interesting premise. I think in Mexico they are more old fashioned as far as the faith goes, then here in the U.S. I think if they had shown this TN at night here, it would have done well. It seemed to offend a lot of the audience in Mexico.
 

Maybe if Jarocha sees this post, she can explain why there was the back lash in Mexico. I read about the back lash down there.
 

I don't think Cachito de Cielo had low ratings because of the priest storyline. I never heard anybody complain about it at all. That was just the excuse the producers came up with for the low ratings. The casting was really strange though, Maité Perroni and Pedro Fernández made such an odd couple.

I think Gitanas did well in Mexico. It had Ana de la Reguera who is very popular here.

Rape is such a difficult theme that telenovelas just don't know how to handle. They just add it for the shock value and sometimes I feel the writers lack a real understanding of what they are portraying on screen.

LQLVMR is a mix of both Bodas de Odio and Amor Real but they should have changed many things to make it work and yet they didn't. I couldn't stand Manuel at all after he raped Matilde in Amor Real and that novela was made back in 2003, before marital rape was criminalized in Mexico. Even today many don't understand that such thing is wrong and telenovelas acting like it's normal just doesn't help.

Abortion is also a touchy subject. The only place where it's legal in Mexico is the Federal District which is only an area of Mexico City, this means that they can't depict it without bad consequences since it is illegal in the rest of the country.

Televisa is the most conservative network here though, so these rules apply mostly to them.

In telenovelas from Cadena 3, which is the most liberal network we have, we have seen all these things handled differently: they have showed characters having abortions, gay and lesbian protagonists (with happy endings) and more realistic portrayals of rape and abuse. It is worth mentioning though that this network doesn't reach every part of the country and that if you don't live in the central states then you need to contract basic cable to see it.

Jarocha







 

I'm so glad you brought this up, because I came in too late to contribute to the 100+ marital rape discussion episode on Lo que la vida me robo.

The two TNs that I've seen are LQNPA and LQLAMR (Me Robo).

I think both these stories are like old fashioned romance novels, where there was more leeway for douchey behavior from the "heroes." And we the viewers (or readers of the novels) suspend our disbelief and go along with the writers. As long as they don't push it *too* far. . .

Of the two galanes (Rogelio and Alejandro), I find Alejandro to be more "sympathetic" than Rogelio in LQNPA, but then Rogelio was such a bitter, sour jerkwad for so much of the story (and he had the whip!). But any of you that remember when we watched LQNPA, Rogelio is one of my favorite characters. Oh Rogelio, how we Rogelianas loved you, even though you certainly didn't deserve it! ;)

Anyway, Rogelio didn't rape anyone (like how could he? LOL) and it can definitely be argued that Alejandro did, but why is it that I consider Rogelio more of a jerk? I guess because on the whole, he was. Alejandro *tries* to be a nice guy.

Anyway, getting to the marital rape thing on Me Robo—I'm using mental gymnastics and trying to convince myself that was that she "submitted" to him, not happy about it, but "submitted." UGH, though! The writing of that episode made it ambiguous enough that we can fill in the blanks however we want.

I was very disturbed that they wrote it the way they did, though. Yes, I know that it could be interpreted (IS interpreted) to be rape. But I'm going to tell myself that she "resentfully submitted" to the sex, like, "Let's get this over with, you a-hole."

I've watched some of "Amor Real," watched most of the DVD adaptation, and have started to watch the full episodes (found online). I'm fairly familiar with most of the characters. I knew there was a "rape" in "Amor Real" and had ASSUMED (oh foolish me!) that they would somehow make it more palatable for modern audiences in Me Robo. I was very disappointed that they didn't change that enough.

Well, looking forward to reading all the other comments!
 

Jarocha, thanks for stopping by to comment on this.

I was under the impression that abortion was available in most areas of Mexico but that in the D.F. it has the fewest restrictions. That most states allow it for genetic issues, in cases of rape or incest, or if the woman's life is in danger from pregnancy.
 

Jarocha:

Thanks so much for the info. I read on another forum about the back lash, I'm glad there wasn't one, and I agree Pedro Fernandez and Maite Perroni do make an odd pair.
 

Urban, yes, you are right, abortion is legal in most states in those type of cases. But, in the Federal District there is no restriction if it's performed withing the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. What I talked was actually about cases where the woman chooses to undergo an abortion without there being circumstances or rape or congenital diseases, etc. That is only legal in Mexico City.

The problem is that even in those states where abortion is allowed in cases of rape the authorities do their best to block the access to an abortion. There is still great rejection towards abortions and it is an extremely touchy subject. It is the one I think will take the more time for telenovelas to tackle adequately.

Jarocha


 

Didn't CCEA slightly touch on the subject of rape? Didn't JM rape Marichuy before they actually met? Although the event was mainly shown in flashbacks. And there was really no major consequences for it other than guilt and fear. It was pretty much forgotten right away.
--TF
 

That's what I heard. It's also what happens here. New York City is almost the only place where abortion is available with no questions asked up to 13 weeks. Medical reasons are required after that.

There is no lack of effort in the world to punish women for being sexual. That is criminal.

While some of our censorship mavens in the US are ridiculous we do have television that challenges a lot of these things.
 

Great topic. It never ceases to amaze me how badly Televisa tns deal with some of these topics, especially rape.

Even though the situation wasn't perfect, I think Amor Bravio did the best job I have yet seen of dealing with the rape issue. It's the only tn I've seen where the rapist had charges brought against him by the survivor, AND actually got jail time for the rape. The only one I've seen where, although it was discouraged by most, the survivor was actually given the option of abortion and it was spoken about; the only one where the option of adoption was spoken about (and selected); and the only one where the survivor was encouraged to go, and went to therapy. None of these steps have been followed in all the other tns I've seen where someone was raped, and that's just ridiculous.
 

I agree.

Mi Pecado showed us the worst possible outcome by having Rosario hate her daughter. I don't recall whether anything was said about this but I have the impression that she never told her husband he wasn't Lucrezia's sperm donor and it wasn't clear when Rosario's rapist/father died. She obviously never saw a shrink either. Her husband died without ever knowing what was going on in her head.

I mostly agree with you, Vivi, about how this was handled in AB, but I was furious that Piedad would argue against abortion when she saw how Luz Maria was suffering.
 

Urban- It wasn't perfect, but I thought it was very realistic for a woman like Piedad to not even want to consider an abortion for her daughter. I would have found it hard to believe had she been supportive of that. Her learning moment was moving from thinking of the baby as "sucio", to thinking of it as an innocent and pure being, like any other baby.
 

But how would Piedad have felt had she seen Mi Pecado and thought about Luz Maria being like Rosario someday?

On another subject, can anyone think of an example of fetal alcohol syndrome?
 

I seem to remember a kerfuffle at the beginning of El Tal about the Sergio Reynoso character beating a pregnant woman and the police doing very little to investigate.

I guess Maite and Pedro are an odd pairing, but I might have a little crush on him so I didn't have a problem with it ;-)
 

Gracias, Sara, for remembering that particular atrocity. I must have blocked it out because I bailed on that series when it changed time slots. That was probably the nastiest thing I had ever seen as of that moment.

As I recall, the woman was 7 months pregnant, so she could have had a living child. That qualifies Pigorio (as he was called) as someone who killed a child.
 

Sorry to remind you! I bailed soon after that incident and the time change as well.

 

IIRC, there was ALMOST another priest who left the priesthood: didn't Arturo Peniche's character (Padre Juan Cristóbal) plan to leave the priesthood to marry Macarena? As I recall, only her death prevented him from going ahead with his plan.
 

Oops, I forgot to say which telenovela I was referring to: it was En Nombre del Amor.
 

Juanita- Yes. He was all set to leave the priesthood, and I wondered if that was controversial at all in Mexico. He also endured a lot of sexual harassment from the villainess, and of course he had a child( but before he became a priest).
 

All this talk of priests in love reminds me of The Thornbirds.
 

Yes, indeed. Loved that book and the miniseries wasn't bad, either. The episode where he broke the vow of chastity was the highest-rated one in the US.
 

En el Nombre del Amor wasn't controversial either. I think at this point a romance with a priest doesn't really shock people, especially after the scandals of Marcial Maciel and the Legion of Christ which were much worse than a priest falling in love.

Also, The Crime of Father Amaro became the biggest box office success of Mexican cinema at the time it premiered in 2002. In it, they showed a priest seducing a young woman and later forcing her to have a backyard abortion which ended up killing her and another priest was also shown to be involved with narcotraffic.

But, there were times, not long ago, when the Catholic Church had many powerful influences. Back in 1998 there was a telenovela in TV Azteca called Tentaciones, the main couple were childhood friends who find each other again and fell in love even though the galán was a priest. The novela actually had good ratings but many influential people retired their advertisements when they saw the first episodes and Azteca had to end it after 20 episodes. I think Bimbo was one of the brands that refused to be advertised during te novela. Here's the opening sequence, it's very much the tone of the story: Tentaciones .


Jarocha

 

Wow. Wish I had seen it. Did they at least have an ending?
 

Yes, they made a finale for their audience but the lead and the priest didn't end up together :/.

Jarocha


 

According to the IMDB page for it, that series was supposed to have 122 episodes. I wonder if they actually shot that many.
 

Great discussion. ITA that Amor Bravio handled the rape issue well. It wasn't preachy and all the different characters' outlooks were realistic for their individual makeup.

My problem with Robo is the writers have the main galán force marital relations, then they act like it didn't happen. Now, are Ale and Montse acting like it didn’t happen because they’re too guilty, too mixed up, too turned on, or just into denial? Who knows? The writers dropped it. It's my understanding that Amor Real, set back in another century, did not act like it didn't happen so it's strange that writers in the version set in 2013 took this route. My view is if you're going to take on a controversial issue, take it on.
 

@Urban In Sortilegio,Raquel was a heavy drinker i remember so that could qualify as fetal alchohol abuse.
 

And there was one novela where the husband of the main character( villian) is a heavy drinker and that at the end kills him,k cant remember the name of it. I know the protangoist dies in the end ,shot to death(Abit it was just a dream) by her frenemy Ines
 

Note to think about in later episodes of LQLVMR....we have been told over and over that rape is a product of rage and anger which arouses the perpetrator and not some sort of frustrated, distorted desire to have sex (he could go to a prostitute if that's all it is).

Yes, Ale was angry with his wife over her indifference and antagonistic behavior, but I see a man like Ale to grab Monse, almost slap her and then storm out of the room, slam some doors and go have a drink in a dark room.

I just can't see him forcing himself on someone he's in love with and has only a few days earlier promised, in all sincerity to honor, respect and love.

So, in the writers efforts to stay true to the original stories, there has to be sex. I think they could have done more to play up the "Shut your eyes and think of England" situation.

One of the most romantic "rapes" I can remember was Luis Manrique y Arellano entering Hipolita's bedroom to do the deed or face prison or execution if didn't. She certainly felt violated when she realized it wasn't her husband....

But back on topic of controversial subjects, I continue to be disturbed by the "underworld" of the sex trade that seems to be part of a lot of recent Televisa novelas set in modern times. That includes, Que Bonito Amor and La Tempestad.

We aren't straying too far in LQLVMR where we meet Esmeralda, who works as a stripper, pleases men, but is a good girl underneath it all. Even in Refugio, Luciana's reputation suffered for her one encounter as a server in an antro. In El Tal, Antonio was not beyond "using" women and going so far as to kidnap Camila for his own private plaything.
 

The underworld of the sex trade also figures in "Santa Diabla," currently showing on Telemundo.
 

Of the current crop of tn rapes (it's just sad that I can call it a crop, since there are so many), the one that most disturbs me is the one in Corazon Indomable. The character is a young teen of about 14. She is deaf and mute, and poor and unprotected. She also is abandoned by her only remaining family, her sister, and watches the horrific murder of her grandfather-- all while still being pursued by her rapist. She ends up pregnant and is totally ignorant of what pregnancy means, or how she became pregnant. Yet, the folks around her who suspect she was raped and who did it, do NOTHING to protect her or bring the man to justice. And her only family, her sister, can't be bothered to find out who did this to her little sister, get her sister emotional/psychological help, find a method to allow her sister to communicate exactly what happened to her, or be bothered to ensure that the man who raped her sister pays for his crime, and is no longer around to harm her sister when they return to the location of the crime. It was just maddening!
 

Good topic UA. I agree with many comments about how the rape in TNs is portrayed.

I would add imprisonment of the female protagonist. La Que No Podia Amar's depiction was disturbing - Rogelio, supposedly in love with her, locks Ana Paula in her room on multiple occasions.
 

I so agree, Vivi! I don't know why the writers even bothered to put the Solita character in the remake. Of all the story lines this one is the most disturbing to me.
 

Vivi and Sara, I think that the depiction of the rape of Solita, as violent and pointless as it was, was at least accurate as far as the act itself is concerned. The tragedy of Solita was not just the rape itself, but the also way the character of Solita was regarded and treated by those who supposedly love and care for her. Her only handicap was apparently her deafness and yet she was treated very much like an affectionate pet. After Maricruz acquired her fortune I saw no effort to improve Solita's circumstances, address her handicap, or as you point out Viva:

"Yet, the folks around her who suspect she was raped and who did it, do NOTHING to protect her or bring the man to justice."

I think the biggest crime (and granted, there are many) of CI is this neglect and abuse of a handicapped young girl.

Carlos
 

In "Duelo dePasiones", the crazy husband locked the wife in her room. She tried to escape several times hauling an enormous suitcase behind her. She prayed to a large statue of the Virgin for help. I always said to myself, " maybe you should be a little more proactive and use that statue on your crazy husband's head." Help Mary help you. God helps those who help themselves.
 

I completely agree about the unfortunate way the Solita character was treated in CI.

Niecie, in Amor Real, Matilde was furious after the wedding night. She prayed that her father or onetruelove Adolfo Solis would rescue her. she refused to eat. She hated Manuel and tried to escape from him on the trip to the hacienda and also after they arrived there.
 

I'm watching Friday's episode of Cachito and I had to pause it to come here and comment on Mara's Karmageddon. Perhaps it wasn't controversial because the ratings were so low. Maybe I am misinterpreting it, but it looks an awful lot like her "punishment" was to be gang raped at the behest of Pupi and Fabio (whom she double-crossed.)

Really? Rape as Karmageddon? Am I the only one who feels like the message is "hey, women deserve to be raped?"
 

Vivi, you are so right about Solita in CI. It was absolutely criminal for her to experience that and never be helped to communicate this to anyone.

Susanlynn, I was also upset with that situation in Duelo de Pasiones. I suspect that Soledad was astonished at first then afraid after. The male workers on the property would not defy Alvaro, so she had the situation stacked against her. The other thing that was so wrong with that series was that when another character asked him whether he had gotten proof in a DNA test his response was "I don't believe in such things." Of course, the story would have ended had there been a DNA test at that point instead of running for 125 episodes. It should have been done as a period piece instead of taking place in 2005. Even setting it in 1950 would have worked much better... and the cast members would have all looked good in that period of clothing.
 

I think the worse handling of rape I've seen was in Leonela, a peruvian remake of an originally Venezuelan telenovela that I didn't see but I heard it goes the same way.

In the story, the galán is in love with the lead who is rich and doesn't notice him because he is poor. One day her boyfriend humiliates him and beats him, so he gets drunk and goes to the beach in the night where he sees Leonela walking alone so he goes and rapes her as a way of vengeance. Her boyfriend leaves her due to the rape and the high society she belongs to treats her as "damaged goods". Leonela's father sends thugs to beat the galán but he kills one defending himself and is sent to jail. Then Leonela discovers she is pregnant and gives the baby up for adoption but the galán's sister adopts her since he wanted the baby, he gets out of jail and becomes a lawyer, they meet again since she is a lawyer too and she doesn't recognize him at first but he hates her for being a bad mother and abandoning "their child" and when he learns that she's regretted giving the baby up for adoption and has been looking for her son he doesn't let her know he has him at first. Anyway, they fall in love and get married but then she can't have sex with him because memories from the rape prevent her from enjoying it so he cheats on her. Later on he starts to believe she only married him to be with the child so he asks for a divorce but she "fights for him" and goes to therapy, then her therapist falls in love with her so the galán accuses her of being a cheater while he is the one cheating on her. Afterwards, his long lasting mistress goes crazy and tries to kill Leonela. And there was more crazy stuff and the galán being horrible but in the end they stay together and live happily ever after.

Jarocha
 

OMG, that is a horrible story, worse than anything Rosemary Rogers ever wrote. And how in hell can anyone become a lawyer after serving time in prison?
 

I have no idea. It was a Delia Fiallo story, I'm convinced she hates women.

Leonela was a HUGE hit in many countries, both versions were. I really hope nobody tries to remake it again.

Jarocha
 

I remember in Cuidado Del Angel when the galan attacked the protangoist and Maricruz had nightmares about it and on the day of their wedding night she had a nightmare and she recognized the attacker~ her current husband.
 

My mistake,it happened after the wedding night..
 

Demitrios- I remember reading that in the original versions of Cuidado con el Angel the galan did rape the heroine in the past before they met and fell in love. But in CCEA they changed it. He was drunk and stumbled across her alone in the dark. He got gropey or handsy, but he didn't rape her. But she was so afraid and freaked out that it basically traumatized her. They seemed to have initially left it very vague so that the audience didn't know if he had raped her or not. Then she finally remembers his face in a dream on their wedding night after they made love for the first time.

Jarocha- That sounds like a horrible tn. And yet it had high ratings in multiple countries. There is something wrong with us humans.
 

The fantasy of rape as a prelude to romance has been around for a long time. Do you remember the 50's musical Seven Brides for Seven Brothers? Based on the Rape of the Sabine women. All light-hearted songs and dancing and bigosh, those gals just couldn't help themselves but fall in love with the big, darling oafs.

That's the fantasy. We know darn well the reality is something else.
 

Thanks for another great topic Urban.

The crop of tns (thanks Vivi) that engage with rape is disturbing b/c of all the things that have been mentioned here. There is such a lack of sensitivity to the topic it seems as if the writers are in some type of time warp. And even more disturbing, as Jarocha mentioned, audiences enjoying plots with rape as a major theme.

Regarding the rape fantasy that Judy mentioned, when I was in college this "fantasy," was being unpacked as to what it really meant to women. IIRC for most women, these were their fantasies and they were always in control so the situations were not viewed as rape. Meanwhile for men, rape fantasies was red flags for potential violence against women.

Nevertheless for myself personally, having been taught about rape being a violation and knowing the conditions when it occurred in the past in my family (my great, great grandmother was a female slave and was raped), it is difficult for me to conceptualize these romantic "fantasies" of rape.
 

Vivi, I'm with you on the rape of Solita. The rape itself was tragic and the lack of followup by her family was criminal. There were opportunities later to go back and pay attention to the issue and still get some help, but again, nothing. It broke my heart, especially being the recapper of the original rape.
 

I'm wondering if the Beatriz/Leo rape scene from AV was removed for the Uni broadcast. In one episode, there was a flashback transition effect that appeared out of nowhere as well as the sound.