Caray, Caray!

What is always jarring to me is the emphasis a lot of characters put on genetic ties, to the point where an adopted child can be cut out of the inheritance, for example (Sebas on MPV). Another example of that is when a character (like Marina on LT) discovers that their bioparent is not the parent who raised them, and they will call the bio one, who they only recently met, their "real" parent. That seems cruel to their adoptive parent.

Second thing that always seems strange to me is the value that is placed on certain family names. Like some chica gets pregnant and guys are offering to marry her so her baby can have a name. Can't she just give the baby her last name? What's wrong with that? Or the rich people obsessing over who does or does not carry their family name or acting like having that name automatically makes them better than other people. Or, again with Sebastard, he worries that because he was adopted and not a biokid that he will have the family last name taken away from him. Can they even do that? It's his legal name.
 

Also I HATE it when they call their little girls "princesa". Irritates the bejeebers out of me. Also when parents throw a wrench into their lives to accommodate the child's whims rather than just, like, help the kid learn to deal with disappointment.
 

Your second point is certainly not in tune with the awful reality that there are many babies born to unmarried women in Mexico. There was a "reality" show a few years back whose host pointed out that Mexico has the dubious distinction of being the Latin American country with the highest rate of this.

As for whether a legal name can be revoked, I don't know. It gets done in the 1993 Corazon Salvaje but I don't know that it can be done now.

The DNA thing mystifies me, too, but I have a good friend who still cries about how her genetic family doesn't love her. She comes from a very toxic family and also knows that this is not her fault, nor is it anything unusual. She's read as many books on this as I have but seems to take no comfort from the ability to create your own family out of your friends. It's not logical, but it happens.

I wonder why this is why we see so many characters who are adopted go to adulthood without knowing this.

I have no idea what the norm is anywhere else in the world, but the current conventional wisdom about adoption in the US is to tell the child as soon as s/he is old enough to understand. I don't know if that's right, either, but there are many compelling reasons for them to ultimately know.
 

There are many twists and turns about this subject and I don't want to get in the middle of it as
I know next to nothing about the Latin Culture but----Why would anyone object to calling your daughter princess or princesa?
Little girls are beautiful and sweet, if I had one, I would love to call her precious, princess, princesa or something to that affect. What's wrong with that? Little girls are only little for a short time, what is wrong with letting them know that you love them and that you think of them as a princess?
the gringo
 

Because it can easily create a spoiled brat with a sense of entitlement.

There is nothing wrong with telling your child you love him/her. More parents should do that (if they mean it). However, there is a line between that and spoiling.
 

Mi mom uses mi reina/mi rey for her children and children she's close to (nieces, nephews, godchildren). She also uses muñeca/muñeco and mi cielo but only for her children. For my dad she only uses amor. My dad invents words for nicknames for everybody, he only used princesita when he was scolding my sister or me for not doing our house chores.

One of my mother's cousins uses princesa for her daughter but I can't remember anyone else using it. It's definitely less common. mi reina/mi rey are very common and not just for children but some people even use them for strangers, that use of the nickname is seen as low class by some.

And yeah, sexism is alive and well in Mexico. Very much. Men like Fernando in PESE are out there everywhere.

Julia:

About the last names, I do think the novelas exaggerate this. However, since all children carry both the last name of their father and the last name of their mother, a child with just one last name would be very noticeable. At school both of our last names get called during roll call and at every place you get registered (schools, clubs, work, etc.) both of the last names are required. Some people do ask for your second last name when you meet them, since they like to guess if you have some relation to someone they might know.

Jarocha
 

I don't see anything wrong with calling children endearments. I call my kids honey and sweetie.

Your parents are supposed make you feel special to them and then you go into the real world.

I call my children honey and sweetie. Yes, I live in San Diego, Mexican Americans refer to their children that way as well and I think its beautiful.

My friend is African-English and she treats her like princes and princesses as well. Her kids are well adjusted. Somebody's gotta make them feel good...cuz no one else will.

Cynderella
 

I feel like the use of "princess" in English sets up an atmosphere of entitlement more than princesa, mi rey/reina do. When I hear the terms on TV it never has the same feeling as "princess" does. At least to me it doesn't.

My culture shocks would be things like Salomon Ladino and the stereotyping I sometimes see, but I remind myself that there are cultural differences.
 

Another one that gets me is "viejas" when referring to women. In our youth-oriented world this offends me big time.

I cannot recall any female characters referring to their husbands as "viejos."

In the US teens frequently refer to their parents in this way, but usually as a way of indicating they are in some position of authority. Not always offensively, but it's something they should stop if their parents really hate it.
 

I seem to recall Lucha calling Gabino (PSMA) "viejo" once, but you're right...it isn't common to see women calling someone viejo.
 

When I first started novela watching I was kinda shocked to see that people there are extremely religious and that the church is very important for almost everyone.

Then I learned more about religion in general and it didn't surprise me so much anymore.Or maybe I just got used to it?

We have more atheists here than religious people and we arent really taught about religion in school or anywhere.So its more what we learn from TV and the internet.


 

On Teresa, Teresa's mother used to call her husband "viejo" with affection.

I don't see anything wrong with calling children endearments...Your parents are supposed to make you feel special to them and then you go into the real world.

Cynderella, I so agree. My parents used to call me what I realize now are some very non-PC endearments (wow, just realized they would've sounded so cool in Spanish!). But it's the feeling of love, affection, and appreciation that I remember most.

I get that outsiders can find these endearments annoying, but I like hearing "mi solecito" and "mi luna de miel."
 

Thanks for the topic UA!

From Jarocha's comment about sexism Mexico, I guess that is why for me the sexism in comedies like PESE or PEAM isn't all that funny. And because its stretched out over many weeks, it just seems to continue a really bad joke.

As people seem to become more heartless in our society, I think parents need to continue to make their children feel special and if those terms do that, then keep at it.
 

I agree with Cyn. The world seems to getting colder and harder, so parents have to send their children out into it knowing that someone thinks they are wonderful. My hub often called our daughters (and me) Sweetpea. My dad called me Honeybunch. I call my granddaughters all kinds of nicknames...Sugarpie, Honeybunch, Lovie, SweetGirl, Boo. After watching "The Help,, " I tell them often "You are smart; you are beautiful,; you are kind." When I ask them which is most important, they always smile at me and answer "kind."
My maternal grandmother lived with us and always made me feel loved, protected, and very special. Even though she died when I was eleven, that feeling of being loved has gotten me through some very bad times in my life. She called me "my little Susan.,,

When I first started watching novelas, one of the fascinating aspects was hearing the galan call his Onetruelove Mi Amor, Mi Cielo, Mi Vida.
 

My issue with princess/princesa isn't that parents are using affectionate terms. Generally, I am all in favor of terms of affection, however silly or sugary.

The issue I have is this whole Princess Culture thing that is running rampant among American little girl society. I don't know how prevalent this is in other countries. But there's this whole promotion of princessiness that incorporates a lot of artificial and unnecessary gender norming, pinkification of any and every product which girls are told is what they should want, promotion of stereotypes to the point that girls are discouraged from adventurous and brainy pursuits and steered toward the frivolous. Plus the way the sort of people who promote that agenda also tend to embrace an anti-feminist backlash and to limit the roles of women.

It seems so backward and anachronistic, but it's an attitude that is alive and well, and the training starts by teaching little girls that they are princessy; that their role is to be pretty and supportive and to revolve around the boys who do the big stuff. Because being a pretty princess and being taken care of is the ultimate; forget having power of your own or choosing your role in life based on your personality. They're being given second class status and made to believe that it is a prize they have won.

So maybe, probably, that isn't what parents intend to connote when they call their daughters "princesa" in a sugary way, but that is what I hear.
 

Julia...Have you seen the ad for the Rube Goldberg type of construction building set that a woman engineer created for girls ? You can probably see it on YouTube. The goal is to interest girls in engineering and other STEM careers. The ad is a riot, and the premise is to counteract the princess culture. I think that little girls will always love princesses, fashion, makeup, and Barbie dolls. My girls both did, and one majored in math and computer science and the other in education.
 

Julia...it's called , Debbie and GoldieBlox Build a Brighter Future for Girls Everywhere
 

I have seen that toy. I get what they're going for, but I think it's a little sad that they have to push such a toy as being for girls. I think all toys are for girls! I think princess stories and pretty clothes can be a balanced part of a nutritious breakfast, er, a healthy and normal part of life and childhood especially. I liked pretty clothes when I was little, and I still do, but I was also encouraged to develop other interests. I became an engineer.

What I see in stores and Facebook posts by parents of some girls kind of alarms me, though. It's so much SATURATION of pink and putting importance on prettiness and pushing kids into one activity vs. another and telling them that navy blue is a boy color and fashion is a girl hobby and then women are posting all this stuff about how "worldly women" just don't understand how special women are, and don't they know that they would be happier if they just played second fiddle to some handsome prince who could take care of all the hard stuff for them, oh and also it is girls' job to be attractive for boys but not too attractive because they are also responsible for managing boys' hormones, and it just makes me want to scream.

Clearly I just need to filter my communication spheres more carefully. If only I could hang out on the POLE all the time in real life! Fewer aggravations, and the ones there are exist onscreen and can be dealt with by a therapeutic onslaught of Nerfazos.
 

So, followup on the name thing. In Mexico, does the father have to recognize the child as his in order for the kid to have his family name? Can the mother give the child both her name and the father's name regardless of the father's attitude? Or could she choose another last name for her child, if she didn't want the association with the father?

I can see how it would be a sensitive issue to not have two family names if all the other kids do and they are both used for classes and forms and whatnot.

In the U.S., parents can give their children whatever surname they want. It can be either of the parents' last names, or both, or something else entirely. If the father bails, the mother can still choose to list him as the father on the birth certificate and to give the child his last name if she wants to. He doesn't have to give permission. Is this not allowed or just not done in Mexico?
 

I had to look it up. It seems that you can demand recognition from the father with a DNA test if he does not agree with giving the baby his name. There's also a law from 1989 where it says that in the case of not being recognized by the father both of the mother's last names will be used. So I guess that's good for the child although the mother and child would sound like brother and sister but I guess that's better than not having two last names.

I did know a man with only one last name but he alwats joked about it saying that the secretary forgot to add it in his birth certificate. Now I don't know if that's true or not.

Jarocha
 

I think the only time I liked the single mother aspect was Por Ella Soy Eva when we had una muchacha Helena Moreno who could hold her own.
 

This comment has been removed by the author.
 

My mother always referred to her grandkids and great grandkids as rey/reina in a very affectionate way - all 27 & 24 (respectively) of them! They all knew her and her very limited means, so no - not a single one ever felt they were "entitled" to anything. They all just know they are very loved by Grandma/Great Grandma! Although, on a lighter note, one of my nieces asked me (when she was about 4) why grandma could never remember her name. I said, "what do you mean?" She replied, "Well, I tell it to her all the time, but she keeps calling me Dana!" LOL
 

The issue I have is this whole Princess Culture thing that is running rampant among American little girl society....

So maybe, probably, that isn't what parents intend to connote when they call their daughters "princesa" in a sugary way, but that is what I hear.

I completely agree with this.

When my college buddy's first daughter was born I begged him not to let his daughters become sissified. This is so bad for girls and the women they should become in the 21st century. Somehow, though, his younger daughter seemed to develop a sense of entitlement when she was about 8 or so, actually asking me what I paid for a gift I gave her for Christmas. They lived in an affluent area where new cars and designer clothes decided who was who, but I don't regard that as an excuse.

For reasons having nothing to do with that specific situation, that was the last gift I ever gave her.
 

Fascinating discussion!

What strikes me in the telenovelas I’ve seen is this:

In our romantic movies, when the couple marries at the end, they take off in their Just Married car with the tin cans rattling behind them, heading for the horizon where their future lies. Bye!

In the novelas, (and this is what I find so endearing about them) the stated goal throughout is to be together – not just the two lovers, but everybody. Grannies, faithful servants, siblings, parents, a huge circle of friends, kids, babies, the dog. We end up with the boda, everybody present. Confetti! Group hug! The couple doesn’t go anywhere because they are where they want to be.


 

And, like in fairy tales, we don't see them becoming less romantic with each other over time.

Every once and a while I see a mature couple who have grown so much into each other that they look alike. They stop having the separate identities that drew them to each other and start looking like brother and sister. I find that scary and I think that is one of the things that can create a Gaby (PSMA).
 

I also have nothing against terms of endearments.

I think the only time the princesa thing bothered me was in PEAM, because Jesus (FC) used it ALL the time with his little daughter. It was constant, sugary, and grating. He hardly ever used her real name or any other term of endearment. AND he went out of his way to create a whole princess lifestyle and mythology around her. It was grating.

But I loved what her other dad called her, chaparrita. That was cute.

I love that some cultures in the US (like the South), and Latin America use terms of endearment so liberally. You have to be raised with it to make it roll easily off the tongue.
 

Off Topic:

Urban- I recorded the final week of Privilegio de Amar and am just now watching it. Just watched Cynthia Klitbo shave her head. Wow! She has guts.
 

Hispanics are more likely to call people by nicknames at any age. They refer to people as " Gordo or gorda" if they're fat or chubby and Moreno or morena if they're dark, flaco for skinny, Tigre if they're a tough macho, etc. etc. they also make up names like Chucha, Chucho, Pupi, Yuya. My mom's nick name is Pupi and my mother-in-laws is Yuya. Princess is just another nick name but for a little girl. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think this comes from the Spanish influence. In Spain everyone has a nickname.

Sue in Miami
 

I used to have a friend from Bulgeria. she carried herself like royalty and was always very nicely dressed. She was very self-confidant. She was actually very un attractive , you could say ugly. One time she confessed to me that she didn't even know she was ugly until she was an adult because her parents always told her how beautiful she was and they told her she looked like a princess.

In her case her parents did a very positive thing.

Sue in Miami
 

I could write several,pages on the last name bit.

Sue In Miami
 

Vivi, that scene chilled me to the bone. I hope they paid her much extra dinero for that one.

Let me know what you think of the Karmageddons in the finale.
 

I remember watching that scene with Cinthya Klitbo shaving her head. My mom and I were so shocked and that scene was all everybody would talk about the novela for the next few months.

There have been other actresses shaving their heads for roles in films but I can't remember any other else doing it for a telenovela. Actors have done it but it's not the same.

Jarocha
 

Urban and Jarocha- Cynthia K really threw herself into the role, that's for sure. In every scene she was 100% in character. Her scenes with her mother, as she continued to descend into madness, and her mother finally realizes there is no hope, were brilliant. The two actresses did an amazing job.

Urban- I enjoyed the villains' ends in this so much better than in Triunfo, where the bad guys really did not face the consequences of their actions and had easy/quick deaths. I really don't know why Mejia bothered to remake it. All in all, it was a MUCH better tn than Tirunfo.

 

I thought that the Karmageddons in that series could never have been improved upon, particularly those of Nicholas and Tamara.

As for Ana Joaquina's, I felt very bad for Padre Juan because I knew he would never give up on her and until she finally died he would still hold out hopes for her redemption. However, her arrogance in even boasting to the police about being appointed to enact God's vengeance was the big telling factor that she was irredeemable.
 

I wish they had done a better job with the DVD for EPDA. I saw it on DVD, but I don't think they did the show justice.
 

It was better than the preceding ones, but some elements of it were clearly deficient.

Condensed DVDs always leave out the great confrontations that we look forward to. This series had lots of really good ones.
 

Urban- Yes. Nicholas and Tamara had a better/more deserved end than the Thelma and Louis ending their counterparts had in Triunfo. And Ana Joaquina's end was ten times better than that WTF plane explosion in Triunfo. Bernarda went out laughing and drinking Kristal. And the poor pilot and flight attendant got killed too.
 

I may have said this on the forum when that finale aired, but I'd like to think that the pilot and crew of that plane were messengers from Satan sent to pick her up.