Wednesday, March 15, 2017

Vino El Amor #93, Tuesday, March 14, 2017: Vino el Rescues and Miscues


In this episode, both Miguel and Carito survive their torture via that grungy Mark for now. If only the audience could be spared from grungy Mark. David is torn - should he get a second opinion or go with Dr. Evil Martin Mull's (bought by the succubis) opinion? And everyone is stunned at the last thing we hear...

Here's what happened (warning, my captions were awful and Univision doesn't have the episode up yet for rewatch; will correct anything that needs correcting when I can (or correct me in the comments):
  • Gut rescued Miguel. He asked him how he was doing and bloodied Miguel promptly passed out. Gut called for an ambulance.
  • Luciana found David in the hospital. He told her about his fight with Fer.
  • Carito somehow escaped from grungy Mark (this was never explained) and is back in employee quarters. She gets a visit from Perla and tells her what happened and is clearly very shaken. Perla, being the crappy friend she is, tells her not to call the police. Carito tells her to just go.
  • Tano visits Fer in the hospital and she's happy.
  • Gracie and Lilian are unhappy to find Luciana with David at the hospital.
  • Adolfo and Erika talk about Miguel suddenly disappearing. Erika senses something is very wrong.
  • Dr. Anderson tells the family that Perla has depression/feeds them a lot of bull about her condition (which of course Lilian and Gracie know is bull). Lilian and Gracie play it up and Lilian says this all started when David started dating Luciana. David is upset and says that it really started after Lisa died. Lilian contradicts him and says they need to face the truth to help Fer best.
  • Erika continues panicking about Miguel and calls the sheriff's office. Hey Gut is hands on and picks up. Gut tells her he has bad news...
  • Dr. Evil Martin Mull continues his scamming and wants to have lots of therapy with the family and Fer since Fer is at the brink of suicide and all (she's not if you are just a casual viewer). David is questioning things.
Dr. Anderson is the character's real name, but cmon, he's Dr. Evil Martin Mull! Look at the resemblance!
  • Gut's bad news is that Mig was beat up pretty bad and taken to the hospital. Thanks, Gut. Erika and dad rush off.
  • Gracie tells David that Dr. Evil is one of the best psychiatrists. David is a little confused but will get Fer into therapy as soon as possible. But he wants a second opinion.
  • Carito drinks her tea shakily. Marta notices she's upset and offers help. Carito says no one can help.  Marta says she'll be there if Carito needs her. Marta leaves the room and Carito tries to call Miguel. Voice mail. Carito berates herself for being a little harsh with Miguel in the last episode.
  • Perla is trashing Juan's precious couch cushions. He comes in and asks what's up. She tells him about Carito. Juan's reaction is that Mark was only supposed to get rid of Miguel, LOL. Perla is a mite upset about all of this.
  • Luciana is with Bobby and calls David. He just wanted to hear her voice. He's very emotional and tells her to tell Bobby he loves him.
  • Poor Miguel is having his wounds cleaned. Erika comes in with Adolfo, who tells him he'll take care of things and leaves the room. Erika is glad to see Miguel alive.
  • Lilian says if David wants a second opinion, we'll help him get one. Gracie says they need to get this taken care of before David figures out they are behind the scamming doctor.
  • Erika is concerned about Miguel's involvement in the immigrant trafficking investigation. He could only think of her after the baddies beat him up. She kisses him and it hurts his beat up lips. Then he tells her that he won't be visiting the other vineyard for a long time, having just discovered that Luciana is love with David.
  • Cesar is skeptical of Dr. Evil's diagnosis. He thinks Fer is processing things as a normal, bereaved, raised by two succubi for three years while grumpy dad checked out, teen girl in love whose grumpy dad won't let the nice guy see her, would do. OK, Cesar didn't say all that but you just know he's secretly thinking it.
  • Susan tells Luciana what happened to Miguel. She wants to go visit him. Susan stops her.
  • Carito has packed her suitcase and is ready to leave employee quarters. Marta comes in and sees her ready to go. Carito tells Marta that she is feeling very sad and tired and is going on a trip. She asks Marta to say goodbye to everyone and hugs her goodbye. Marta looks at her going with a concerned look.
  • The next day, Luciana visits Erika to find out more. Erika can't believe what an egotist Luciana is. How can she think he wants to see her after their spat yesterday? Luciana tells her she's going to see him with or without her. Erika tells her that Miguel deserves to be happy and Luciana should stop bothering him. Luciana tells Erika that Miguel gets to decide if he wants to see Luciana or not and stomps out.
  • David tells Gracie and Lilian that Fer is being released to recuperate at home with her family.  They are thrilled.
  • David continues that Fer needs quiet and rest. So he reminds Lilian and Gracie that they were kicked out of the house and he wants the two of them to go now.
Not so thrilled.
  • David is hiding in the home office. Luciana visits. He's anguishing over Fer. His selfishness caused all this. Ding Ding Ding. Luciana tells him what her mom said. She's thinking Marta is right and them being together hurts Fer.
  • Juan shows up at the competent vineyard. Erika suspects him of involvement in Miguel's beating. He denies it.  He just wants to work with them to beat David's vineyard. Erika totally nails Juan with an accurate accusation of his involvement in various sundry dirty deeds.
  • David tells Luciana that Dr. Evil thinks Fer tried to commit suicide.
  • Oh, apparently Juan is visiting Erika and Adolfo as the new olive oil farm owner in town. That didn't work out for him. They make him feel unwelcome and he leaves.
  • David is beating himself up for neglecting Fer after Lisa's death. Good. He should.
  • Gracie tells Lilian they better do something radical to keep themselves at the mansion. They come up with a new scheme.
  • Luciana tells David he's a good father.  She suggests David get another medical opinion. Maybe Fer is just a little bit rebellious and attention-seeking. David insists Fer was suicidal. They discuss the therapy and Lilian and Gracie needing to go.
  • Jeez, they discharged Miguel already. Erika helps him into her office/bedroom. I guess Luciana didn't visit him after all. Miguel is acting like nothing happened but he's in pain. Erika mentions that Luciana came looking for him.
  • David comes to confront Sonia about giving Fer the phone and Tano's love letter. Second offense on smuggling the phone!  Sonia pleads her case; she was only trying to make Fer happy. Sonia promises not to do it again and asks to help. He tells her that there's nothing she can do. But Gracie and Lilian will be leaving soon.
  • Erika and Miguel talk out the Luciana thing and end up making out as he tells Erika she's the woman for him.
  • Gut visits Marta. But he's really looking for Carito. Marta tells him she went to Mexico. Gut asks her to have Carito call, because he needs to question her about Miguel's beating. WHAT???? say Leon, Tano, and Marta. He catches them up and tells them it has something to do with the illegal trafficking.
  • David visits Fer. She tells him that the doctor told him to tell the truth, so here it is: Knowing he is with Luciana makes her feel bad.
  • Gut visits Miguel. Miguel thanks him for saving his life. Susan was the one who called Gut and got him out there looking for Miguel. Gut wants to discuss the case and Carito. He thinks she's running away to Mexico because she's involved with the traffickers. Miguel says she's a good person and wouldn't do that, but might know something. Gut says they need to find her.
  • David doesn't like Dr. Evil's opinions and tells Fer they need to find another doctor because she seems worse. Fer doesn't like that idea.
  • Marta is visiting Fer and Gracie interrupts so Marta leaves. Gracie bought Fer a phone. Fer is depressed no more! 
  • Marta and Luciana meet up in hospital. Marta is upset because Fer seemed so sad during her visit. Luciana wants to talk to Fer. Marta stops her. Luciana is always complicating things. Marta encourages her to stop seeing David. Luciana tells her it's their decision.
  • Musical montage. Fer tells Dr. Evil her truth. Marta, Leon, and Tano visit Miguel. Dr. Evil and David talk. Susan and Luciana make wine or something. Fer and Tano happily Facetime. Luciana helps Bobby with homework while David stews.
  • Marta is dusting Fer's room and rearranging her knickknacks when Lilian comes in. They have a huge fight about Fer, Luciana and David. Lilian says if Marta really cared about the family, she'd tell her daughter to stay away from David. Marta says Fer will be fine with therapy and Luciana and David have the right to decide their own lives. To which Lilian goes there and says, "Luciana is a bitch like you." (I admit, I laughed.)
  • Marta goes there right back, saying David loves Luciana the way that Lilian's husband Fernando loved Marta! Oh that gets things really going, and they take it out to the hallway.
  • Lilian screams that Fernando only used Marta in bed. Marta screams he wanted her. Lilian screams at Marta to stop saying crap and that Marta only seduced Fernando to get what she wanted, her children. They are fighting so loudly that Luciana, who is David's office, overhears. As does the returning Fer and David. They all hear Marta scream at Lilian that Fernando loved Marta and she loved him, his caresses and he knew the pain he was causing Lilian. All look shocked.


Labels:


Comments:
Thanks dy. Needed this since I missed the show.

"OK, Cesar didn't say all that but you just know he's secretly thinking it"

During an operation is a little late to contemplate a second opinion.


 

Thank you sooo much DY. Great recap, and quick too. Great with my morning coffee

BOOM ! Yowzers what was that? Somebody shootin at me?
Nope the GracielaMobile just came by.. That was a BACKFIRE. You buzzards still need a new roost.

David this all is because of me, so I am going to dump you and head for the hospital to be with Miggs since I just heard he got his butt beat AGAIN.

So David wants a second opinion, Cesar recommended it and so did Luci so will he?

"Oooh Miguel you are all beat up. I'm glad you are out of the clinic. I was so worried about you."
Oh I love you Erika you are the best woman in the world.
"I Luuuurrrve you too Miggy"
Hey Erika guess what the mean old bad guys didn't hurt?

I had wanted to call this show Vino el Glaciar based on the speed it has been moving.

But if David does not get a second opinion I believe we should call it Vino el Lobotomia.


OT OT OT Sue I saw on the news your area had a "25 bottles of wine" weather forcast.


 

And Shimmidy Crippit that Miggy IS a bleeder. I hope he is never in a car wreck! If he is bring one of those Swiffer kits.
 

WOW! Thanks dy! Working my way through. This sooo thorough! Since you asked, here's one thing you may want to correct:

•Dr. Anderson tells the family that Perla has depression. . .

I'm cheating by reading this at work. . .can't wait to finish this and join in the convo!

THANK YOU! Back later!
 

Ok, DY, you did ask for input. Not being critical but please check this important point:

Lilian screams at Marta to stop saying crap and that Marta only seduced Fernando to get what she wanted, her children.

I understood Lilian to scream that Marta wanted Fernando to help support her children. I wish I were at home to look at it again, myself because it makes a big difference:

1. If it's the way you heard it, that implies that both Marta's children are Fernando's?

2. If it's the way I thought I heard it, Marta had the children by Fernando, was cheating on him and getting money from Fernando to help support or maintain her children?

Jeezo-pete! Either way, she IS a zorra! Whoa! Please, what did others think she said!?


 

dy, you did a masterful job with this ugly, sordid mess of an episode.

Thank you for adding your trademark wry wit and humor "cmon, he's Dr. Evil Martin Mull! Look at the resemblance!" made me smile.

Miguel was a jackass in talking to Erica about Luci, which certainly ruined the afterglow. Erica forged ahead, knowing what she was getting into but I still felt for her. That is, until she took it out on Luci, who had every right in the world to visit with Miguel.

Kirby, what you and tofie have been saying about Luci leaving David to go back to Miguel might well end up true. But, in fairness, I think Luci is getting pummeled from every angle. If David tells her they can't be together, her world will unravel. She is trying to stand by him with love and wants to speak with Fer but no one will let her (I'm not sure she should but at least she wants to). And then! "Marta stops her. Luciana is always complicating things". Shut. Up. Marta.

dy and Lila, I knew a bombshell hit at the end but I did not know what was said. If Lili meant (and it's true) that Marta used her husband to get pregnant, that would be catastrophic. I would forgive Lili (for most) of the venom she's directed at Marta. I hope this is clarified as we really need to understand exactly what happened.

David seems to be thinking and acting calmly and rationally. I hope it continues as his seeking a second medical opinion is vital.

dy, thank you!

Diana
 

Diana: What was the bombshell between Marta & Lillian Sanders all about ?

Kirby: Erika going beast-mode on Luciana is nothing new.

Lila: FerBrat still BRATTY & Uppity.


 

Hi DY, you did a great job as always and your screenshots are perfect! I just want to chime in here with Lila because this is what I understood Lilian to say: "You only seduced him to get all you could from him and money to support your damn children."

What I understood is that Marta already had children by the time she became Fernando's mistress, so the idea that Luciana and Leon could be Fernando's children is out of the question.

I wish whoever did the editing for this episode would have shown us how Carito got away, because I saw no explanation of that one.

Well got to go to work now. More later, I have a busy day ahead.
 

I don't have any problem with Erika going after Luciana on Erika's turf. I had a problem when she went to see Luciana and attacked.

If Luciana and David break up it would be unnecessary to attempt another relationship with Miguel if she doesn't love him. She'll do it though as long as he keeps the door open and hate it for Erika but that door is wide open.
 

Yes, ditto to Cynthia! You have done an AMAZING job, as usual, DY! I think we are getting some scissors applied here to our story and the Carito escape is just one instance! Darn it! It's been so slow, let them NOT clip this thing up just when it's getting good.


 

Thanks, dy77. Great job. Love all the snark. Jeez, they discharged Miguel already. Erika helps him into her office/bedroom.

My guess is Carito didn’t escape, but that skidmark saw she was sufficiently scared to scram out of town so he let her go.

Uh-oh, Marta has fallen off her pedestal. I hope she’ll be completely honest with Lucíana and León. Marta, no matter how rotten Lil is, it’s just bad form to brag about bagging somebody’s else husband. His caresses, really? I’m glad Ramón didn’t witness that spectacle.

 

Thank you, dy77,for yet another snappy recap.

Miguel, all I can say is that you have crossed a line when our Diana calls you a jackass because Diana always gives everyone the benefit of the doubt. When I think of the quote "When in doubt, do the kindest thing" , I always think of Diana.

Kirby..I think the snowfall ended up at 14 inches. The neighbor finally came last night about ten to plow our driveway. Another snowday today. No wine here, but plenty of coffee, mint tea, juice, water. We are good.

regarding Carito, yeah, the last we saw her , she was tied to a column and Dirty Harry was threatening her and leering at her in that smarmy way of his. Then, presto chango, she is pulling her carry-on out the door at The Employee Hilton. Que?

Stuff to do. Later, gators.
 

.."office\bedroom"..ha..and I think they were eating in there, too..so add diningroom kitchen. QUE?? #onabudgetfolks
 

Lila, Univision did have the scene up and this is their literal transcription:

"Lilian: The only thing you did
With my husband was seducing him
To get everything you want
You could do this to be able to
Keep your damn
Children, right?"

I'm not sure either but no mention of money by me or Univision. Of course this is Vino el Amor, whatever was meant will be repeated ad nauseum.
 

Maybe the best line of all ..as Miguel lies unconscious and bleeding "Miguel? Estas bien?" That Gut is so intuitive. You can tell that he is highly trained professional, verdad?
 

Great work, Cynthia.

What an audience for this revelation. Per Niecie's comment it was a good thing that Ramon wasn't in the audience. That Fernanda was is going to escalate her stupid hatred of Luciana because it will also be directed at Marta.

All over something that had to have happened before she was born. In fact, I am wondering now whether Fernando was still alive when FerBrat was born, since she has never mentioned him.

David needs to continue to insist on that second opinion. However, this incident could be the thing that keeps him from throwing the succubi out of the house and that is not good.

Miguel should not have been released from the hospital yet. Brian's description of the beating was enough that Miguel should have been in for at least two more episodes.

Erika is smart in her assessment of Juan but I'm wondering whether revealing that was the right move. She could end up becoming a target.

Since I saw the Mexican broadcast, I will tell you that this seemed complete. There was no missing scene showing Carito escaping or being released. However, it would be the mark of the SkidMark's sadism that he would release her to always be looking over her shoulder for when he'd come after her again. For her to go to Mexico now is the smartest thing she could do. There is no road that leads to Miguel. She can consider Perla to be a former friend, even an enemy and as long as she doesn't tell anyone else what is going on nobody can help her.


 

I was thinking about the comments regarding the SB Vineyard “office” and laughing. Seems to be an “all purpose room”…..If Adolfo is a wealthy man, surely the producers should have at least showed that he lives in a big house like David. When Erica and Mig got in on, the very least they could have done was to have gone to Erica’s bedroom. Instead they work in that room, they make love in that room and they EAT in that room. Bleh! Erica needs her own office!

DY, yes I did hear somewhere in Lilian's exchange the word "dinero" which means money.
 

Thanks, DY. Jeez, that's Uni's literal transcription? That's so grammatically tortured as to be incomprehensible! I usually trust my ears. I'll see what hulu+'s caption says. Well, one thing's certain: It ought to be a great show tonight!

Oh yeah, speaking of disjointedness: Are we to assume the therapy made Fer all better and now she and Daddy are getting along famously?

What happened to the second opinion?

What happened to Grace and Lilian being kicked out?

Did David never discover that Fer has a brand new phone, compliments of DisGraceful?

What will the confession of being a lying zorra do to the adoring Fer? Will she try to off herself again? I can see DisGraceful really making hay with this revelation, especially if it has a negative impact on Ferocious! "For the good of the faaaaamily, you must put those two rameras out of OUR house!"
 

One of the biggest problems I have with the way novelas are directed is that we don't often get a good sense of the passage of time. I don't think there was much time between the delivery of the cell phone and FerBrat's homecoming.

All of us know that FerBrat isn't suicidal. She has no history of it and we saw her take the pills when she was drunk on booze and therefore lacking any sense of judgement. She didn't read the prescription label and therefore didn't know that one shouldn't mix these pills with alcohol. She had no issue with the opening of the Lisa Shrine. David giving her the Plot Earrings at her birthday party was the real beginning of that phase. That Fernanda had no issue with giving away her mother's things was a sign that she had gotten over the loss (almost three years later).

Lillian couldn't get over it then and I don't think she was faking that. DisGracie took advantage of this.

We have all witnessed DisGracie's brainwashing. David hasn't although he knows about some of it at second- or third-hand. He has heard the nasty comments by both succubi. He has a best friend who is a great voice of reason and who knows or seems to know that DisGracie intends to bag him.

In other words, Cesar needs to come to the rescue.
 

It's just so tiring to go through a story where the galan has been hoodwinked for the whole damned time! Direction is one thing and then another thing that bugs me is the twisting or murdering of common sense in service of the story! Who was that that said the other day that a logical resource for a mental health professional for Fer was a recommendation from the (trusted) professional already working with Bobby? Dave is rightfully finally waking up to the negative influence (understatement of the year) of Grace and Lilian and then he takes their recommendation for a shrink?
Absolutely stupid! Oh, well. Whatever.
 

I can't forgive the show for making me watch 60+ episodes of Miguel and Luciana pawing each other, yet expect me to really care if David and Luciana break up.
 

In this, and other shows, it seems they've gone overboard with the separations and the being with the wrong person, all to build up the longing for the main couple to be together. What ends up happening is you either don't believe it or don't give a damn!
 

It appears we saw possibly a mere glimpse of the real Marta who Lilly hates so much. Maybe with reason. (I know thats not a sentence Sue)

If Luci and Marta were on shaky ground before, things can not be better now. (Second UOTY Lila)

I want Cesar, Tano and Master Bobby to corner David in one of his offices which only has one door and sit him down for a Man to Man.

I will buy into a character who is a bit too trusting, but here it just takes an unenjoyable amount of effort to not be swimming in Sue's #WaitWhat !s

This is still an interesting show, but they throw out all these 'clues' which I am gullible enough to memorize, just knowing I will use them later, and then they are forgotten. (by them, not ME)

I hope Tofie and I are wrong about Luci and she regains her resolve, but it always looks like David is walking on eggshells any broken one of which will send her back to her "FRIEND"/Suckface Buddy Miggy.


 

Sending this tune out to Disgrace "All I Need Is a Miracle" by Mike and the Mechanics. She has been foiled at every turn lately, but those crazy eyes make me feel that she is not done yet. So, will we be treading water until May?
 

David is a man who doesn't deal well with emotions. Many men are like this and I would risk saying that men in the US are probably worse at it than in many others. David is at least a 2nd-gen US-born so he would be more in line with the US standard of masculinity.

Which -- as we all know -- has role models like John Wayne, Clint Eastwood, and Bruce Willis.

So, what does David do when Lisa dies? He checks out emotionally and otherwise. We can't even be sure he conducted much business during those two years. Cesar wasn't there to snap him out of it by talking sense to him. That is what allowed this situation to build up.

During David's recent fear that FerBrat tried to off herself (which followed several huge tantrums) his fear that she will do this again is clouding his judgement. This is the blood in the water that the two female sharks are smelling. They know that FerBrat wasn't suicidal. They are manipulating her into this behavior. What will be their undoing going forward is that while Lillian doesn't want this situation to go too far DisGracie has no conscience. She doesn't care if FerBrat does commit suicide if that is what it would take to drive David into her Venus Flytrap.
 

I was sending her an old old song.."Crazy" by Patsy Cline
 

I still think of the first 'Terminator" movie with Arnold cantspellhislastname whe I see DisGrace's single minded focus on her objective. Remember when he got out of the car and stepped on the little kid's toy truck?
 

ITA, Urban, with your assessment of David. One thing, though. Cesar is a really good friend and he was around but David rebuffed him, often very rudely and obnoxiously but Cesar just hung in there. I love the idea of Bobby, Tano and Cesar locking him in a room to talk -- or pound -- some sense into him!
 

Kirby..I try not to think about sentences and grammar when I am not "on duty." Plus, it is spring break , so I am not even thinking about spelling. I also tend to not think about oil changes until that notice flashes on my dash like it did the other day. Then, Dave or Dwayne, my friendly neighbors and mechanics , help me out.

Like some others here, I notice the lack of romance in recent novelas , including this one. Romance seems to have disappeared along with priests and older, wiser adults who advise the star crossed lovers. Now, it's psychologists and maybe sex. #timesarechanging

We tend to keep track of the show's canon more accurately than the writers who are kind of rambling from point to point.

Yikes, Lilian really grabbed Marta last night. She seems to be unraveling as fast as Disgrace. Wow, I thought, what was it about Marta's dusting style set her off like that ? Do people hold a grudge like that in real life? Oh wait, yeah.
 

Urban the one salient thing we have not seen DisGrace do is make any mention of 'Oh how wonderful and happy our family would be, me baking cookies,,,yada yada yada" The only hints of that are just as part of her faaaaamily thing, but nothing in the vicinity of actually longing for happier days by his side in an idyllic future.

Anything remotely related to that is a means to an end rather than the end.
 

Urban..I think that is an accurate statement about American men. I know a lot of those , and I have taught a lot of foreign guys . Very different .
 

I'm all for Cesar, Tano and Bobby but why hasn't Luciana talked to Cesar and work together to help David sort through this and proactively look for a second opinion. Lucian and Susan used Cesar to help Miguel everyday for a month why not the guy she sleeps with? Luciana is all in and ready to throw down anyone for Miguel but backs off for David.
 

After P&P with that railing up there and Marty and Lilly wrestling I thought "Oh No, they wouldn't would they?"
 

Urban I also think you are right on the money about the difference between Lilian and Disgrace. Disgrace has already killed someone standing between her and her obsession, so Fer is expendable if she can finally get what she has always wanted...Moby Dave . Then, what will she do?
 

Thanks, dy77. I didn't see this, but you brought it all to life... "Not so thrilled." LOL!!!

So I guess they didn't shoot Miguel? And Carito escaped without explanation?? Was she rescued by Superman? Did Mark just let her go?

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see the doctor's resemblance to Martin Mull!

David should be very suspicious if Lil helps him get a doctor for a second opinion. She's never been helpful about anything before, yet suddenly she produces two psychiatrists?

Anyway, a second opinion won't be much help if Fernanda is already convinced of what she's been told to think.

So Luci was going to see Mig in the hospital, in spite of Susan's advice. I knew she would, but hoped she wouldn't. Anyway, it appears she didn't.

And what is with Miguel telling Erika he won't go to vineyard LA because Luci is in love with David? Why did he tell her that? And why would Luci being in love with David make a difference? I mean, any more than Mig being in love with Erika?

Carito leaving. Good riddance. And good luck.

I'm sorry I missed another Lil/Marta fight (like the suitcase thing last week). I hope what she said is explained tonight.

Kirby, every time I see that railing I think someone's going to fall. Wheeeee!

Susanlynn: "Then, what will she do?" Good question. She's not interested in parenting, she's not interested in the wine business, what does she think she's going to do all day?
 

After my umpteenth chuckle at that "Not that thrilled" screenshot...oh, dy, your game was pretty on point for this one. And I'm soooooooo blaming you and the rest of the Patio for "Evil Martin Mull," because I can't unsee that.

Carito somehow getting away from Mark or being cut loose with a warning...it would literally have taken one line of dialogue to clear this up, either way, and yet this fakakta show couldn't even do that. Carito herself deciding she was, apparently, finally over Perla and then to just GTFO actually made sense, and Yanet Sedano did a really good job with it, but Show almost literally tripped over itself to get to that point and it frigging sucked. (See also Cesar and Susan abruptly being a thing.)

Erika putting Luciana on blast for screwing up Miguel's life...under the circumstances, IMHO, it made sense. But coming after he ran pretty much straight from Carito telling him Luci and David were a thing to put Luci on blast for apparently playing with his feelings (beatdown notwithstanding), it still seemed oddly...undeserved. (Or perhaps "unworthy" is a better word--and by that I mean Miguel.)

And then there was Marta and her damn #gothchickclogs and the argument with Lilian and I'm thanking all y'all with non-sucky Spanish comprehension skills for the more literal translations of what was said. If Lilian did indeed accuse Marta of getting with Fernando for money for her children, it implies that Marta had already had Luci and Leon by the time Fernando came along...or it can also imply that, yes, at least one if not both of Marta's kids are Fernando's. It's still stunningly vague--but being the proverbial elephant in the room for Marta, it came out in perhaps the soapiest fashion that didn't involve a wedding. So...halfsies?

The catch, and I wonder if I may well be putting more thought into this than Show itself, is this: even if she was saying it just to hurt Lilian, and I'm giving even odds on that, Marta verbally napalmed just about all the moral superiority she had left at this point. And this does wonders for that faint VapoRub-ish scent of hypocrisy about her, too. How does Show walk her back from that?
 

Bill we are probably not going to see Luci going to bat for the old rag. She couldn't have done any worse calling a meeting on the PA system and then pulling that stunt.

After all the rotten things I have said about her I feel a little less guilty now.

Actually a LOT.
 

And I would still like to see the sub human who cheated on Lil with Marta. YIKES.
 

Marta will go all weepy and blame Fernando like she did Brian. Ramon will defend her honor lost long ago hoping he is the next "nice guy" dupe. Anyway, Marta cheated on Marcos then rode out his unintentional exile not really caring if she saw him again.
 

I don't think they need to walk Marta back from that. There's nowhere to walk her back to. I never thought she had much moral superiority to begin with. She's taunted Lil about her husband before - she just wasn't as graphic about it.

If Marta does have any moral superiority, it has yet to be revealed.

(Okay, so she hasn't conspired with Juan to swindle David, and she doesn't terrorize the staff, and the kids like her. Big deal, so she's better than Lil. That's setting the bar way too low.)
 

The same way the writers of PyP rehabbed Eladio after he was an abusive husband and father for 25 years before the curtain went up and 40 episodes into the series. His sins were far worse than any of Marta's and yet most of the commentators forgave him. If that is possible, then Marta is far more forgivable.

Leon is older than FerBrat. He is two or three years younger than Luciana who was 10 in the opening episode. We can assume now that Leon is about 22 and we know that FerBrat is 18. Therefore, anything that happened between Fernando and Marta was before FerBrat was born. Marta and Marcos may have already been employed at the Robles vineyard before Lisa and David were married, but not that much before since Leon was born in Mexico. That novela cliche is the only way any of this makes sense.

It is very likely that tonight's episode will pick up from where we ended last night.

This will put David in a very bad position. He knows that Lillian and DisGrace are doing Fernanda no good. This revelation might move him to fire Marta or not let her near Fernanda. It will also either create better understanding or more anger from Luciana.

I third (or fourth) the suggestion that Cesar, Tano, and Bobby corner David in his office until he listens to them.
 

For clarification, my last comment was directed to Bill C's comment at 1:33 and that Luciana's understanding or anger was with her mother.
 

Julie...well, in Lilian's defense, as to being helpful, she did help with those giftbags. Any of you viewers who have filled those little giftbags know that it is quite a task. First, you have to open them. Next, you have to drop a few candies or trinkets in to them, and then , you have to put on those tricky twisters ties on them.

That was a good list of what Disgrace doesn't plan to do with Dave . What, indeed, is left? 24 hours in a day to fill.
 

If DisGracie did succeed in bagging David her payback would only be the satisfaction of having taken him back from Lisa, but since Lisa is now dead at her hands this would be a very hollow victory.

She would then celebrate the day that FerBrat would go away to college and find a way to ship Bobby off to a boarding school in Europe.

Then she would be bored to the point of her own tantrums and Lillian would beg for enough dinero to take a trip of her own.
 

Oh right, Susanlynn, thank you for reminding me of the giftbags! I bet poor Lil had blisters afterwards.

I wasn't suggesting that Marta was ruined in the story forever. Just that she doesn't, in my opinion, look any worse now after this "revelation" than she already did before.

Odds are, when the full story is finally told, she'll actually look LESS bad.
 

Note to self: never wear goth black clogs. People will hate on you. I am at a loss as to exactly what did or did not transpire between that Lilian\ Fernando\ Marta triangle. However, at this point, I just keep thinking poor Fernando. Perhaps, he actually committed suicide. #makeitstop
 

Despite my lack of love for Marta, I will say that she is (usually) a warm and affectionate person. I can definitely see why Fernando or any man (who isn't turned off by frumpy clothing) would want to be with her after spending a lot of time with Lil.
 

Re The Balcony of Possible Death. Was that the same balcony from Amor Real? I think that it was in CI, and Carlos captioned one screen cap of people standing up there "Jump!" It's like a stage for any crazy to play out.
 

Susan: The Balcony of Death was also on "ECDLP", where the Becista pushed Adriana to her death, where Nora killed herself.
 

Kirby: OJ Mark going full Dirty Harry on Carito ? ROFLOL: She needs the KARMA!

I noticed that Miguel & Gutierrez were coming up with some strategy on Carito.
 

A couple well placed typos and this place becomes Cray Cray. Nandicta where are you?
 

Gee, Lilian is going to get the psychologist for the second opinion. Lilian knows the best doctors . How many quack doctors does Lilian know, and where did she meet them all?
 

Steve the snotty little brat I want to get hers is Perla. She could have cared less that Carita was almost killed, she just didn't want Car to call the cops as it might muck up her (Perla's) GoodTimes with SkidMark and ReMark..
 

Dy77...If you look up the definition of "perfection" those two photos of thrilled\not so thrilled should be there. #mademyday
 

So who is going to render the second opinion, Jeff Foxworthy?
 

Kirby..and let's not forget the callous way Perla threw around Juan's pillows . #somejuancall9juanjuan
 

#productivityauditssooverrated
 

Marta REALLY looks like something scraped off the bottom of her clogs: She was turning tricks for a married man, cheating on Marcos (I think the kids are Marcos'), LIED about it and stayed behind to take care of her dead lover's children instead of joining Marcos, the supposed love of her life, and their daughter after he was deported. She hypocritically "counsels" Luciana based on this secret double life she's lived, NOT out of the facts at hand in David and Luciana's relationship. Luciana is right when she told Marta, "you're not listening to me." Then she, again, hypocritically, has reveled in living the life of a victim of mean old Lilian! Lilian shoulda took a rock to her head, the lying, cynical strumpet! Then, if all this isn't enough, she teased, snared and SLEPT WITH a man Lilian was interested in, just to rile her! So she's just announced to the whole house that every one of Fernando's caresses because she knew it galled Lillian -- his WIFE!

David needs to put Marta out along with Lilian and DisGraceful and get restraining orders against all of them and let Fer go, too, if she must be with her "beloved" Nana and Tia! What a mess!
 

Lila..Well...when you put it that way. 😉
 

Kirby: Perla will get her Karma very soon!
 

. #somejuancall9juanjuan
a chick thing
 

She was trying to kill him. #usearocknexttime
 

Preaching to the choir Lila. I haven't heard of Lilian sleeping with or pursuing another woman's husband. Sure Lilian ratted out Marta's immigration status but Marta tried to destroy Lilian's family and almost succeeded. Marta's family would have remained intact if Juan had done his job or if Marta went to live with her husband and daughter.

Now if only someone would put the possessive creep Miguel in his place next time he rages at Luciana.
 

My dear Lila "Marta REALLY looks like something scraped off the bottom of her clogs".

I laughed out loud and fumbled (badly)in trying to explain to my cube mates what had me on the verge of tears.

You made your argument well. Marta may have a sweeter countenance than Lili but she's done some pretty bad things. A kind expression doesn't wipe the slate clean, does it? And, it shouldn't.

Diana
 

I don't understand these people just walking in and wandering around the "Competitions" premises. I have spent most of my life with a secret or top secret clearance and a badge, so I thought everywhere you had to get past Somebody to get in. Even a vineyard.
 

Susanlynn,Tofie, Diana and all my patio pals: I don't know what I'd do without this community! I certainly couldn't watch these train wrecks alone: MY home would be destroyed because Mr. Lila would put me out due to all the ranting, raving, cussin' and kvetchin' I'd be doing!

Marta tried to destroy Lilian's family and almost succeeded.. . . Who'dathunk I could feel empathy for Lilian? I totally see her thinking Luciana is following in Marta's footsteps! Lilian also doesn't know that DisGracie is having the Quackologist make Fer think she wanted to commit suicide. She was against that plan and I believe really thinks Fer might really be unstable. Wait until she finds out that DisGracie killed her beloved Lisa!

Stevie, if you're out there, it is looking like they're changing the face of at least one villain like they did in A Favorita We don't have to bore our friends with details since we already discussed it once, but Lilian is looking less like a bitch after this episode and more like poor hound dog!
 

Lillian's makeup was better the last couple of episodes too. Her eyes looked less like a rabid coyote.

I bet they are pulling an Eladio on us.
 

Kirby..just walking into any public school these days is a challenge..sign in time ..why are you here... sign out time. Everybody wears ID these days.. Except in telenovelaland.
 

Thanks everyone! Great comments.

Bill, you get total credit for Evil Martin Mull, I think you said it first? At least I saw you say it before I said it.

Kirby, I've thought Lilian has been looking much better past week or two. A change in makeup.

Susan, I wanted to screencap the pillows. Mad that Uni didn't put the full episode video up this morning.

Susanlynn, the lack of romance in most of the telenovelas is why Camino Destino was definitely my favorite one of the past year. That couple had so much chemistry they ended up together in real life. Even if the show did stretch out a prison term to split them up for a few weeks, you knew they'd work it out.
 

I said Martin Mull first, AFAIK. I saw him without my glasses on and had to think for a moment to remember who I thought he looked like.

Jeff Foxworthy for a consulting opinion? "Sir, your daughter is not suicidal, but she might be a redneck."
 

Julie, I wonder about that R word because the near-inevitability of a Valentina/Mauricio wedding at the end of AQNMD makes me think of such things.

As to the Marta-as-homewrecker notion, I think that the home was probably already wrecked before Marta met Fernando. Lillian has been a greedy bitch her entire life and whatever Fernando was about wasn't enough for her. He probably got the cold shoulder from her after whatever period of time before Marta came along. However, since it was likely that Marta was married to Marcos already I'm at a loss to decipher her motive.

Remember that narcissists always project their own faults and motives onto others because they believe that there are no others. That is the degree to which they are self-centered and that is exactly what DisGrace is doing with Luciana. She is Lillian on steroids.
 

Yup, Julie, you indeed made the connection between Dr. Evil and Martin Mull first (in a comment from the thread for Monday's episode). I'm only taking credit for the #clogsthatrefusedtodie.

And, TBH, you're right in that Marta's affair coming out doesn't really make her look that much worse...well, to us out here. We've been bemoaning her hypocritical bemoaning Luciana's theoretical following in her clogprints for weeks. In-show, other than a judgmental streak the size of Lilian's ego regarding her second favorite daughter, her status as wise old nana is kind of shot and...that's about it. OTOH, since that coming out hurts Luciana, that gives David one more person to go off on in his Week of Relative Sanity. That could be fun. Sort of.
 

" I'm at a loss to decipher her motive."

If Marta was a s frumpy then as she is now it was probably just a catch as catch can for her.

From an American guy's perspective the Spanish guys can typically expect fairly high quality.
 

Here’s my take on the whole Lilian/Marta scenario: I’ll just bet that Lilian has been a greedy and conniving witch all her life. In one episode even DisGrace, when she found out about her father stepping out on her mother wasn’t surprised and said something to the effect of, “well can you blame him after the way you treated him? All you did was go out with all your friends and leave him alone.” So my guess is that Fernando felt lonely and Marta was convenient. As for Marta and why she did it is most likely because she felt ignored by her own husband. Many women, when their husbands are working a lot of long hours are quite lonely and any attention given to them by another man makes them feel good about themselves because they are feeling rejected by their own husbands. It doesn’t make it right, but perhaps makes it more understandable when people feel ignored and not taken care of by their spouses.
 

Urban... I agree with you. Both Lilian and Marta are harpies. Geez Louise, how long ago did this happen? Just freaking let it go! And, Urban, you are the one who explained how narcissists operate to me , and that was very helpful knowledge for me, so..thank you.

Kirby...ah..quality..like beauty is , perhaps, in the eye of the beholder .

Dy77...Love the first photo of Lilian and Dave. With that scenic wallpaper behind them, it looks like they are sitting in the middle of a forest on a retreat. The looks on both of their faces is priceless.
 

Cynthia, true that. I don't think that it was exactly a love match between Lilian and Fernando. I am sure they were not another Tristan under Isolde, but Lilian probably didn't want anyone else to have what she considered hers..I.e. Fernando. Lilian is not a sharer and does not play well with others.
 

Susanlynn, I totally agree that it was probably not a love match between Lil and Fernando. In one episode she was ranting about how much she "gave" him one of the things she "gave" him was his citizenship. Maybe Fernando married Lil as an easy pathway to U.S. Citizenship.
 

Cynthia, I'm going to take your comments a step further: Without Lisa having married David, Lillian probably has no friends.

Her maiden name was given as "Smith" which is about as generic an Anglo name as it gets. There may be more than a half million people in the US with this name and of all socio-economic backgrounds. I strongly doubt that she was To the Manor Born.

Maybe she herself was the result of a liason between a master and a servant. Writers leave such things open to our scrutiny when they don't give families of origin to characters of the older generation in a series. ;)

I doubt that she would have much money on her own; she would have to go back to work! We don't know what level of education she attained or what she could do for a living. Her racist comments that put Brian in political hot water indicate she doesn't enough in the way of social graces to learn to keep such comments to herself.
 

If Lil "gave" her husband his citizenship, I assume he was Mexican. With all of her racist comments, why did she marry a Mexican? Or did her hatred of Latinos start only after he had the affair?
 

Cynthia...ah..I have seen that happen in real life. That would explain how Lilian married Fernando in the first place. It certainly wasn't her charming personality. I wish we could have had a flashback of this stud muffin who was juggling two women. Quite an hombre.
 

Julie, that makes a lot of sense, but she might have something else she thinks is valid.

We don't know anything about Fernando except that he was Mexican, had dark hair, lived at least until Lisa and DisGrace were in their teens, and had an affair of some kind with Marta. We don't know what he did for a living, how much money he made, or how much he had left when he died. We know that the San Diego apartment is in DisGrace's name but that's all.

We also don't know any backstory about Marta and Marcos beyond that they were Mexican, they were married in Mexico, their children were born there, and he had expertise in the planting and cultivation of wine grapes. In the scenes he had with the adult Luciana we heard very little about other relatives and didn't see the cousin he mentioned.

We have heard Lil say she always had a thing for Latin men. When she said this either to DisGrace or to Sonia (with a specific reference to Brian) she said it with a certain amount of self-reproach or shame. Well, Brian could tempt anybody, but Lil's attitude in that conversation almost said that she felt she should go more for the Jeremy Irons type.
 

Oh, I forgot about that. So when she complains about Latinos what she means is that she hates how hot they are. :-)
 

dy--Poetry in motion, nay, prose in motion, but poetry-like. This was terrific. I'm so glad other folk missed how Carito was freed--I thought maybe I'd fallen asleep during the commercial break and woke up too late to see it. We don't really know whether Mark abused her or just frightened her enough so she only peed in her pants.

I heard what Cynthia heard. Marta just wanted him to help support HER kids.

There are still some 80 comments to savor, so I will post this now, hoping it's not too late.
 

Okay, y'all one further thought:

Bitch, harpie, schemer, neglectful, whatever Lilian was, no woman has a right or excuse to sleep with that woman's husband. It almost sounds like Lilian is being blamed for Fernando's infidelity. The only two people responsible for an apparently long-standing adulterous relationship from which Marta apparently benefited monetarily as well, is Fernando and Marta. I don't believe in "oh the shrew wife pushed him to it." Fernando's dead so he's met his Maker, as it were, but Marta is alive and the reverberations of her infidelity are still being felt. Marta didn't have to stay in Lilian's face, in her home, and continue the illicit and malignant rivalry she entered into when she slept with Lilian's husband. The crazy slut constantly talks about HER place in the house and when she thought Lilian was going to have to leave, she even said SHE would be the abuela! Lilian may be a hanger-on but the kids are her grandkids. Marta is a cynical manipulator who sacrificed the unity of her own family to hang around to be a thorn in Lilian's side and hopefully somehow become the Lady of the Robles household through her tie to the kids. Lilian may not be a prize but how would any woman feel sharing a home with the woman who cheated with her late husband and who has won the affection of her grandkids: they'd be a bitch, too! Lili's a piece of work but so is Marta! I'm done with that ho! The only way Lili can be worse (in character) than Marta is if she killed Fernando!

Ought to be a good show tonight!
 

Everytime Magic Brian (thanks Bill) comes on the screen, I always think of those bridal parties where they hire muscled guys dressed as policemen to dance for and embarrass the bride and her mother and Nana. Not that I have been to any of those types of parties. I have just beard things. Yeah . #secondincome
 

That is another question - why did Marta stick around in the household of her lover's family after he died. This makes no sense unless one or both of her children are related to Fernando, or unless she is somehow related to Fernanda and Bobby (I can't think of any way that would be possible).
 

Lila..I agree. I don't think most women could forgive and forget the women who had affairs with their husbands. I cannot believe that Lilian and Marta have been living in such close quarters all these years. I would be long gone if I were either of them. I wonder if the writers are ever going to give us the whole, sordid tale . I have a close friend whose husband was having an affair that many people knew about. She finally divorced him. He moved to another state and lived with the other woman for years . After about ten years , he married her. My friend is the least bitter person I have ever known. She rarely talks about him. Her friends are more bitter and vengeful than she is.
 

dy--The screen caps were great. One little misunderstanding that might make a few people grind their teeth even more--David said he knew he had ordered them out of the house the day Fer did her swan thing and they got a reprieve. This time he told them the order still stands, but they can only stay until Fer gets home, then they must skedaddle.

Well, the scene on the balcony between Un-Juliet and Never-Romeo will surely change all that. David, in good conscience will have to dismiss Marta. (Will Luciana and Leon go with her?) With no one else around to help with Fer--and he doesn't trust Sonia completely any more--it's DisGracie and Lil to the rescue. Lil is the damsel done wrong.

Julie--Marta stuck around for 20 years, taking Lil's abuse because this is a telenovela. Remember the mantra--It's only a telenovela..it's only a telenovela. It works for me. Clears up inconsistencies immediately.
 

Julie I have asked that forty seven times, why oh why if she is actually able to work, did she stay around for years and submit to the abuse from a shrew like lillian who Lords it over her and heaps on the humiliation. I think they are made for each other. .#lesbianlovefight
 

Ayiii, Kirby--I'm so glad you are watching and commenting on this tn. I'm sure you have a future on Comedy Central. You paint such nastily-sweet pictures with your words (better than anything DisGracie turned out). And if we could just see you up on stage in cowboy hat, holster and boots, using your spurs to egg your motorcycle on to faster speeds, would be a sight to behold. Thank you for entertaining us in your very special way.
 

Thanks Anita for the clarification!

Well, well, well, there may not be that much romance on screen -- but apparently a new offscreen Vino el Amor couple has sprung up: Tano and Erika! Picture of them here on his Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/BRocMGKAFKU/
 

Just dropping in since I see last night a few more kernels about Marta's affair with Lil's husband came out. I actually don't care anything about these characters or this plot, but it is driving my logical mind crazy to not know WHEN and WHERE this affair happened. I need to understand how this affair could have happened when Mr. Lil was dead when this story started, and it seemed like he was long dead, but Marta was hired to be the nanny of Fer who was a tot, and Marta, her husband and both her young kids had made the journey from Mexico illegally together. When, when, oh when (and in what country), did this affair take place? I need a logical timeline, and then I will be happy.
 

Dy77..gee, she looks like Fer to me.
 

Lila at 6:30--You said it much more colorfully than I did. You were on fire today, girl. It must really be cold where you are to get you blazing and burning through your keyboard.
 

Susanlynn--it's Erika.

Vivi--Come back in a month or two, maybe we'll have some answers for you. Urban put a pretty good timeline together to tide us over, though.

I seem to recall that Marta said it happened a long time ago, while they and Fernando were still in Mexico. Maybe they came over together, but that would have meant Lil was already married to him and I doubt she would have gone to Mexico and mixed with "those Latinos." OTOH, Marta may be lying through her teeth.

Wasn't he called "Don" Fernando? (Or am I remembering Un Camino.) Normally you don't use that term on a humble person. Maybe he came from a good family, no money, came on a student visa, overstayed the visa, met Lilian and voila!

There still a lot of holes in any of the theories we come up with. If any of the writers read this blog, they are probably sitting around the table laughing at us.
 

Anita..or maybe the writers were sitting around the table, reading the comments here, and making notes for their next telenovela!
 

Anita- LOL. Ok, I'll poke my head back in many capitulos from now to find out if the writers ever managed to cover up this huge plot pothole. :)
 

I personally think they were making this up as they went along rather than thinking about it in advance and planning the revelations along the way. It's all about Leaving Our Options Open In Case the Ratings Fall.
 

Hey, Anita. Yah, it's cold! Lows in the low to mid teens, a big ole whopping high of 32 today! These silly stories keep me warm and I don't watch this at night, I watch it the next morning on my recording, hard to sleep after these shenanigans! It's all good, though!

;D
 

It didn't hit 30 here today and it was windy.

Now getting on to a hot bath after which I have to do the recap of tonight's Mujeres de Negro.
 

Checking in on the weather ..a cold day here. Schools will be closed again tomorrow due to drifting snow ,especially on the rural back roads the school buses have to go on . Spring officially arrives on Monday the 20th. Snowbunnies.
 

Anita thanks. Glad you know it is just all pretend. I actually do not have one hateful molecule, except for imaginary things. My understanding is that if you look after little kids and make grownups laugh things just run smoother.

kj
 

Whoa, Urban! What a novela warrior! I may peek at some of the recaps. . .may be too dark for me. I think sometimes I'm what Stevey calls a "pearl clutcher!"

;)
 

And if it is any consolation for you frozen people, it struggled to get to 60 here today. And that is bone chilling for Flor-I-Duh.
 

Lila--Mujeres de Negro is like a CSI Miami without the flashy electronic gizmos or police car chases. It DOES have Arturo Peniche, Diego Olivera, Marcelo Cordoba and Ricardo Franco. Not at all a shoot-em-up.
 

Anita..I can't find Mujeres on my TV schedule. Marcelo is mi numero uno telenovio , and I am a big fan of Arturo, my first villain in Alborada.

Lila..I guess that I am a pearl clutcher, too. I love pearls.

Kirby, just as I have suspected..a sense of humor and a good heart underneath a bit of bravado. Laughter is important .
 

But just enough of a police procedural to make my early ambition for it unrealistic.

Back to VEA for a second: Since my most recent post it occurred to me to wonder why Lillian's Spanish is so perfect when she is supposed to be a gringa. Historically the only gringos who speak perfect Spanish are genius doctors or corporate CEOs, so why is hers perfect?

The answer is that she is half Latina and doesn't acknowledge it. There are two scenarios under which this could have happened:

1. Her Latina mother was a maid in a wealthy US household and was knocked up by a son in that family or:
2. Her mother was a daughter of a wealthy family and was knocked up by the Latino chauffeur. She was sent away for the duration of her pregnancy because the family was Catholic, gave birth to Lillian, and returned as if from a vacation. Baby Lillian was raised by a Latino servant couple. She learned at some point that she was not their biological child and deeply resented having been raised in the servants' quarters when she should have been "upstairs."

Now off to Encino Blanco.....
 

Susanlynn and Lila--Mujeres de Negro started last month on UniMas. I think you can catch up on the episodes on the Univision website. (I couldn't find it at first, but it's with the Series, not Novelas) Here is the link, but you'll have to copy it.

http://www.univision.com/series/mujeres-de-negro

Marcelo wears a dumb heavy-duty neck scarf and jacket when everyone else wears thin spaghetti-strap tops because of the heat. Anyway he's still just as cute.
 

Wow, Urban, very calculating. Could be. Wonder if we will EVER find out.

Add to that historically gringos who speak perfect Spanish might be ones who were raised in a Spanish speaking country and are completely bilingual.

I noticed that Gabriel Soto's American English is better than Lil's British English. Juan Vidal's (Gut) English has gotten much better.

I made this note in the early episodes. Here for WIW: "Lil shares with Mr. Policeman that her husband cheated on her and had a child with another woman. Could that be Luciana and why she hates the child so?"

So the debate ain't over till it's over.
 

That is the timeline we have to nail down. There is a reason why Luciana and Leon don't look like they're related.

I'll have more to say about that after the recap of tonight's episode is up.
 

Hey, Anita! Thanks for the MdN information and link!
 

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