Thursday, March 16, 2017
Vino el Amor #94; Wednesday, March 15, 2017: Vino la Verdad
David talks to Lilian about how Fer is affected by all this. He asks why she has never told him any of this. Lil says, “Because I love my grandchildren. But now that you know the truth, you need to make Marta leave this house. When I found out about you and Luciana, it made me fear what happened to me and how my family was destroyed. Now the same thing is happening here.” David says, “No it’s not the same.” “Yes it is the same”, says Lil. “Marta wanted to steal what was mine and Luciana wants to steal what belonged to Lisa. Marta wants to be the grandmother to my grandchildren. But my grandchildren already have a grandmother and that is me.”
I think Marta's twisted logic and duplicity has left it's mark on Luciana along with all the guilt she piled on her back.
Well, David has two more bail on him. Marta and Luciana. Hope Cesar hangs in there.
Luciana should make sure Miguel will be with her before breaking up with David. I'm pretty sure Miguel will bail on Erika but just to be on the safe side.
Oh boy, Ramon is an idiot.
Thank you for your superb conversation translations. The recap was amazing.
Because of my own father's infidelity, I am likely a far harsher critic than many. That said, now, in my older years, I do understand that things happen. Mistakes are made. Still, Marta was married to a good and kind man. Could there have been a terrible side we did not see? Unlikely. Perhaps her saving grace was that she did not leave her family to be with Fernando. A bit of salve only for a gaping wound.
While I agree with you Cynthia in that Marta did not appear to verbally say she was sorry, I felt her tears conveyed that.
"Don’t you think it was strange that she didn’t want to leave after her family was deported?” I can't blame Lili for calling the question. What I cannot figure out is why she waited this long?? She doesn't have ESP, she didn't know Lucia was downstairs and that David and Fernanda just returned. Her revealed secret was impeccably (though unwittingly) timed.
Luci, was banished to live her childhood years with her father, the only parent she really had in her formative years. Of course she is devastated. I would be too.
As you noted, Leon's hurt and anger already seems to be subsiding as he seems to be rethinking Marta's departure.
Where were Sonia and Bobby when we needed them? I was actually very relieved Bobby missed all this.
While we all knew (another) Luci/David breakup was coming, I can't fault her for backing off. Fernanda was enough reason for her to leave him, this unbearable, unexpected hurt was too much for her. She needs her friends - Susan and yes, Miguel. I think we all fear what will happen next.
And I have to say, I love Ramon. He is kind, caring and utterly supportive. He still loves Marta, despite what she has done. Isn't that what love is supposed to be?
Cynthia, thank you for your superb recounting of this very sad episode.
Marta said she was young and foolish. That is an acknowledgement of error. However, the story still lacks detail apart from her admission that Marcos was her Miguel. This says that she was really too young to get married at the time and she caved to an emotional need she felt when Marcos worked too many hours and thereby can be regarded as having neglected her.
We still don't know exactly when this happened.
One thing that occurred to me last night when I logged off. It hasn't been mentioned in a long time but Lillian didn't live continuously in David's home. When she showed up for a birthday celebration in the prologue it was mentioned that Lisa didn't like having her there for extended periods of time. She may have been the favored daughter but there had to have been a reason for this. Therefore it wasn't like Lillian was there all the time and she and Marta were at each other's throats for 18 years. Lillian moved in full time after Lisa's death and past the point where she would have had to deal with the sometime drudgery of grandparenthood, something she has admitted not liking.
As to David not knowing about the affair, there was no reason for him to know before this. I don't know if Lisa knew, but I'm not sure when DisGrace found out.
Speaking of DisGrace, did she appear to have a more natural complexion on your screens? She did on mine and that was a surprise. The facial expression in your screenshot says what her true feelings are. She doesn't give an damn about Fernanda at all.
Lillian's expression when she hugged the FerBrat was satisfaction at having pulled off her goal of alienating the girl from Marta.
More after coffee.
I wasn't aware (or forgot) Lili wasn't a constant presence in the household all these years. Thank you for noting that. I believe though Lisa died about 2 plus years ago, is that right? I am still surprised Lili waited all this time to retaliate.
Any pity I would normally have felt for Lili quickly dissipated because she used the news to devastate her granddaughter, her own flesh and blood. And of course, you were dead on regarding DisGrace "She doesn't give a damn about Fernanda at all".
Marta should have said as loud as possible...... "I am sooo Sorry......that I got caught."
FerBrat is aptly named and I just hope she is prepared for the same level of forgiveness and expiration dates to be applied to herself. She forgives noJuan and has the memory of an elephant,
Well, I think there can be no denying we have yet another Eladio in the making.
Presto Changeo and the new loving doting Gramma Lilly appears with fresh eyes. It was not many episodes back when her grandchildren were maybe one level above cockroaches on her love ladder, now the greatest joy in her life is actually NOT in a mirror? But rather ironically her Granbaby FerBrat who Succubus daughter Dis is preparring to sacrifice to the mental health Gods in exchange for DisGrace to have her umpteenth shot at her prey.
OK it is a show, right?
I understand young and dumb and losing yourself in passion but Marta cultivated a pious victim persona. While I have no problem with not wanting to disclose the affair, I do when she used the affair in an ongoing feud with a romantic rival and used the doomed affair as anecdotal evidence to destroy Luciana's relationship with David. I don't feel sorry for her at all. For what does she deserve sympathy? For being caught in full taunt?
Diana, I agree with you and understand Luciana feeling the need to back off but I do not agree with Luciana that the world's problems are caused because they are together. It obviously is better for Luciana to run and hide, from the guilt she carries unjustifiably and the baggage that comes with David. Hate it for David that she can't hang and his life will only get tougher when Juan brings the hammer down. David is on his own and apparently radioactive.
Does anybody wonder if Luci will go streaking back to Miggy? 3....2...1...sheeooonnmmm like a bottle rocket.
I hope for the sake of the show both Luci and Erika are preggers, that will give us another week or two of blubbering and crying and hand wringing.
"Luci, how could you be, so soon? I have dreamed about us starting a faaamily for so many years."
Umm..ah...Miggy it will probably have a beard...ya know what I'm sayin.
Ja Ja Ja Ja Ja Woo Hoo.
Lisa died two years and change ago and David checked out mentally and emotionally. Lillian assumed the position of Head of Household and hired Sonia with the intent of having her usurp Marta's place as nanny and general dogsbody. The kids never took to Sonia, though and for a long time she was very awkward with them. This seems now to have been more about inexperience than distaste.
We know nothing of Sonia's backstory, BTW. There have been no clues about it.
Does anyJuan know what NoJuan has cooking? I assume he has filled in the well on his land which supplies David water, or started a construction project which conveniently cuts the pipes or something. The worker came last night to report that the work was finished and to collect the bill.
Advice to Perla: Threats to leave NoJuan and SkidMark are about like pulling out a pistol and waving it around. It will get you shot. By the same token, say nothing, get your shit, leave, and disappear. Forewarned is forearmed.
And steal that little Hello Kitty cell phone
Well, great timing for that cat fight on the balcony..just as Fern is returning from the hospital after almost dying from pills and alcohol....nice grandma and Nana .
And again with the yelling . I like the way Fern just barged into her dad's office as he was talking to Marta.
Poor Ramon..just a port in the storm.
However, my most favorite part was sad Marta clomping down the stairs in those black clogs..Clomp..Clomp...Clomp.
That said y'all beat me to it regarding Marta's infidelity coming out: apart from final confirmation that she indeed cheated on Marcos the Sainted, as much as Cynthia Klitbo rocked the scenes she got, it does occur to me that Marta only ever apologized for the whole thing once IIRC. The rest of the time, she tried to explain it and by extension that her experience was why she didn't want Luciana to follow in her footsteps...which in a bubble is perfectly fine, but otherwise here was drowned out by the clomp clomp clomp of the #clogsofthefisherman'shypocriticalbitchwife (apologies to Charles Mingus). And, worse, it really does make Lilian look better--somewhat--even while Lil's gloating about Marta's halo imploding and figuratively tearing Fernanda away from her. (And since neither Graciela nor Lilian really made any of this about Fernando apart from Lil going "Mine mine mine!", well...that may add fuel to Marta's claim that Fernando wasn't all that happy with Lil.)
Interestingly, during Marta's first conversation with Leon and Luciana, if CC3 was right Marta did say that "things were more complicated than [they] knew." I'm still debating as to whether or not that's an allusion to a possible incoming Paternity Rug Pull or just angst.
OTOH: David's sanity tour continued if somewhat checked, since he basically went "I'm not going to get involved in this, it's not my problem apart from how it could affect Fer--and Marta's never hurt her." That was almost blessedly welcome in the face of Lil's full court press. And Ramon just being Marta's friend and also not judging her was a nice touch (if perhaps telegraphed, since he's been jonesing for her for the majority of the show).
And having missed exactly why that henchman showed up at Juan's the first time around: my assumption is that Juan had the irrigation piping cut to Bodega de Los Angeles, and he plans to either force David to pay through the nose or drive him out of business. This probably should have occurred one episode later, though, since it sort of got drowned out by the Marta Palacios Woe Is Me Tour '17.
She doesn't think she is wearing stripper stacks does she?
DisGrace has a new little thing she must be doing just for us, When she has administered another dose of mental Stricknine to FerBrat, she looks over Fer and gives a little 'Hrmpfh' smirk as though to plaster a sticker on FerDummy's back that says "SUCKA!".
Both women expected a financial gain with Fernando. Marta admitted as much saying she wanted to give her children a better life as one justification while Lilian used the children and now the grandchildren as leverage.
Bill, I caught Marta's comment too and believe it could mean paternity but I fail to understand how that absolves her of the responsibility she and Fernando share. I see how she will use it later, however. It is also possible Lilian had a hand in Fernando's demise but just because Lilian is a heifer doesn't mean both are not cows.
I don't think Lilian's rehabilitation is the same as Eladio's in PyP. Eladio was really sorry and contrite and wanted to be a better man, admitting his misdeeds and sincerely trying to make amends. That doesn't mean he deserved the forgiveness he got. Lilian is still a joker, a smoker, mid-night toker and a vile racist.
I think I see them thinking they can pull this "Well, look at her, she had her reasons, and look how she Looooves them kids." number on us. And I'm not buying it either.
Steve Miller, thank you.
No, Marta expressed no remorse. I heard regret for her error, that things didn't work out for her. But her tears were for shame at being exposed. I didn't see an expression of shame for what she had done.
"I don’t know how or when I fell in love with Fernando." Well that's a convenient way of obscuring the timeline! But it sounds like Luciana, at least, was already born.
I'm skeptical of Lil's claim that she kept silent about the cheating for Fernanda's benefit, since she didn't hesitate to torture Fer with it after Marta blabbed.
But I think there is more to this story than we've been told.
So, Grandma and Tia are still being kicked out! Yay!! Or maybe they won't be now that Marta is leaving... boo.
Where will Marta go? And if Luci dumps Dave, will she stay on at the vineyard as an employee? Or go to work for Adolfo? Or Juan (laugh)? Is there room in this story for yet a third vineyard? Annoyed but not surprised that she is bailing on David when he needs her.
And in all fairness to Marta's clogs, I wear army boots to work when there's snow on the ground. But in all fairness to me, I think they look way cooler than clogs.
I also wear clogs sometimes, I think they're considered chef clogs or nurse clogs or something, and they are kind of orthopedic. The soles are wide (and clunky) for much better support than any "shapely" shoe. But I still think my clogs are better looking than Marta's.
Does Lil play her music in the sun?
And I'm inclined to think that for the most part Lilian kept quiet about Fernando's affair on general principle--we've seen that on some level it does still hurt her to think about it, even if it's just in the usual "How dare she take that from me!" way.
I really expected a really scandalous, even terror-filled, twisted mystery (I still like Kirby's idea that they are lesbians and Fernando found Lil and Marta in bed together).
Unless Marta is STILL hiding something, this is not worth 20 years of seeing each other's faces in the same house, neither for Lil nor for Marta. Lil should have moved to the San Diego apartment--wasn't she there once--and Marta should have highed herself off to Mexico to lie in the bed she'd originally made for herself.
No wonder Luci and Leon were disillusioned, as was Fer. OK, on with the shew [not a sic].
Well, I said my piece yesterday. I haven't read all the comments but tofie at 8:35 pretty much speaks my heart!
For Davaid and Erica, I hope she doesn't go running back to Miguel and I hope he doesn't receive her with open arms. I hope this was just a cliff hanger/teaser and that David will talk her off the ledge with some hugs and some of those teeth-baring kisses they apparently like.
Well, now. And there you have it. :)
Diana (still smiling tofie)
Best line of the week, Tofie. I completely agree with it.
Julie, Marta said something about going to Mexico. She is in no emotional shape to work for the moment. However, she will probably be the next Mrs Ramon at the end of the series.
Everyone -- including Luciana -- has made the point that these situations are not comparable. David is a widower and Luciana is single. She's also educated in ways that Marta isn't (and I suspect Lillian wasn't) and therefore has the upward mobility that Marta may envy on an unconscious level. The same upward mobility as Lisa and DisGracie had in their time.
That David still wants Lil and DisGrace to leave is a good thing. Here's hoping he can stick to his resolve.
He's seemed gravely contemplative (well, more so than usual if that's even possible).
I believe he does love Luci but seemed to be wrestling with his own conscience. Her leaving just made it easier for him.
We'll see if I'm wrong tonight.
Just like Deborah Sanders' racism in Telemundo's "Bajo El Mismo Cielo", where she viciously treated her own AUNT like a slave, even burning her with a hot iron!
Luciana almost used the same words and delivery with David in ending it as with Miguel before. She needs practice.
Urban--I must quote you from yesterday's comments, "I personally think they were making this up as they went along rather than thinking about it in advance and planning the revelations along the way. It's all about Leaving Our Options Open In Case the Ratings Fall." How right you are.
Luciana and Leon's reaction is understandable, but they'll forgive their mom cause they're made that way. Nice to see David and Ramon give Marta support. I don't like her, but she's not evil.
To me, the worst thing Marta's done is try to glom her life onto Luciana. Luciana is bright, educated, and assertive and not in some backstreet affair with a married man who seemed to have promised her nothing. If Fernando had offered to leave Marta for Lil, Marta would've crowed about it but she didn't.
I don't blame Luciana for wanting to take a break. She's young. David's got about 20 more years of experience and should be patient. No doubt Luciana and Miguel will be caught in a hug or something that get's misconstrued, but Luciana just isn't into Miguel that way.
Luci is dumping David as she has been a commercial away from for 24 episodes.
But what does Goodbye Mr. Lips have planned for David? I don't think I am being racist when I seem to be rooting more for a few of the men than the women in this show. And poor David needs an ally or the grace ( ? ) of God right now.
They have him thinking his spoiled little brat daughter tried to off herself and it was of course his fault.
The world championship Wine Building Competition is approaching and the only one who remembers is bad hair Soo--San.
He has laready had to talk to Sonia about sneaking behind his back on behalf of his bratty daughter.
His reliable loveable Nanny is not so much.
A yeomanlike scraping has still not dislodged the two human barnacles from his house with no success in sight.
The flaky teenager he was banging the other day is probably going to the other vineyard and dragging his heart along in her wake.
And his former right hand employee is hell bent to destroy him.
The boy needs a miracle or a gun.
I agree ,Dave cannot catch a break. EVerybody just keeps harshing his mellow.The poor guy finally takes off his vest and gets one. ...maybe two... moments of afternoon delight after more than two years of abstinence , and then...it hits the proverbial fan . I hope that Dave doesn't close those drapes and fall back into depression again . Bobby, where are you? Stay under that bed . Maybe that Lisa Memorial Bedroom Shrine should not have been disturbed. It seems to have unleashed some bad juju..like when they opened King Tut's tomb .
Have the writers complete!y forgotten about the Soosan\MessyMark storyline. Those abusive husband stories fill the news in real life. Locally, a woman had a restraining order against a former boyfriend, and four days after it went into effect, he killed her and then himself in her upperclass suburban neighborhood. All the telenovela writers have to do is read the newspapers because real life is often stranger and scarier than fiction. In fact, pick anyone you know who has lived for awhile, and yuou could probably find enough angst to write a telenovela .
Ah want some romance up in this piece, ya hear?
I think Luciana has a good instinct (to break up with David) but for the wrong reason (the going has gotten tough).
I was actually most impressed with David last night. That never happens, but I thought he was pretty reasonable and logical throughout for once.
I think Ramon is just happy to have a chance to show what a great mate he can be for Marta.
I wish the writers would just forget Mark and Susan period. But yeah, their plot has been abruptly dropped. My working theory on this show is that the writers got into David's poisoned Two Buck Chuck at different points.
So, we still don't know HOW long this affair went on; WHEN Fernando died; HOW he died. Maybe this is still a secret to be revealed. Hope it's better than this one was.
Urban, their timeline still does not fit into the story--as given so far. We've been handed a lot of data, none of which forms a perfect backstory.
Also, Urban, thanks for reminding us that Lil did not live at the rancho continuously. However, in the first couple of episodes she was certainly there, harassing Luciana. Luci and David were already aware of her nasty personality.
Conclusion: There is still not enough revealed for us to figure it all out. Geesh.
(Give me Mujeres de Negro over Vino at this point. The reveals started from the first couple of minutes and it hasn't let us down yet.)
I feel sorry for and worried about Dave. Disgrace has been keeping a pretty low profile right now, but if Luci backs away now, are we going to have her getting all handsy with Dave again. Plus more bleating about how the most important thing is faammiillyyy. She will bring up how Marta hurt her faammiillyy by having an affair with dad ,so Luci is cut from that same floral cloth and is not worthy of Dave's magnificent daviness. I cannot wait for Juan to do whatever he plans to do with that cellphone.
I'm flummoxed on how Lisa and David did not know anything of these goings on under their noses. Either that, or this happened nowhere near the rancho. But that does NOT fit the story. Let me add WHERE to the lines of HOW, WHEN, above.
(OK, calm down Anita, it's just a tn, it's just a tn.)
It does sound as if it took place before the deportation, though, because Marta said that Marcos was working all the time (not that he was a thousand miles away or whatever).
I don't have a tremendous amount of sympathy for her now because her reason for the affair seems rather empty and doesn't resonate. And apparently, it isn't sitting well with her children either.
I think both children are kind and loving and that they will forgive Marta. Leon already has one foot in the forgiveness door. All my pity is going to Luci and Leon. The best Marta is getting from me is a cold shoulder.
Luci will need more time. Not only for the betrayal she is experiencing, but for what she perceives as unforgivable treachery against the father whom she adored. The fact that Marta likened Luci's situation to hers was unwarranted, unfair and unrelated.
It's true that Lil hasn't lived there continuously, but it's possible that she did for a while, shortly after David and Lisa were married. It's also possible that Fernando was living there without Lil. I mean, seriously, it's all pretty much wide open at this point.
Of course, if this all happened at the vineyard, then it's probably after Luci and Leon were born, since they were allegedly both born in Mexico.
"I don't have a tremendous amount of sympathy for her now because her reason for the affair seems rather empty and doesn't resonate. And apparently, it isn't sitting well with her children either."
Well said. She almost literally said Marcos was working a lot and it just happened, AIUI, which in English-language soap terms is the de facto excuse for the vast majority of infidelities. It probably hurt her case more than it helped it because it's so hackneyed, and Luciana and Leon's jumping immediately to Marta betraying their father and trying to (incorrectly) compare her situation to her daughter's is the one thing that made sense besides Lilian immediately trying to use the whole thing for capital with David and her anti-Palacios agenda.
And, yet, we still don't even know all the specifics. That's the hilariously forked up part of all this.
Yeah. That's why I feel like there's going to be a second reveal that's supposed to blow our minds, because right now we're supposed to be satisfied that we've heard the whole story. I doubt that we have. If we have, then the writing is even worse than I thought... and I didn't think it was very good.
Anyway, I was trying to figure out if Marta was sorry for having the affair or if she is just making excuses for it because she was exposed. I know she is crying and trying to rationalize the whole thing, but I just don’t see any real sorrowfulness on her part for getting involved with a married man while she was married at the same time. It just seems to me you can’t make excuses for that. And for heaven’s sake, she has no business comparing her situation to Luciana and David. Its’ not even apples and oranges. It’s more like oranges compared to junk food.
I think Luciana and León would be more forgiving of Marta had she said something like this and I’m making this up as I go along because I think I would accept this from my parents had they done something like this:
“Kids, you both were very small children when we came to the USA. Your dad started working very long hours and I was very lonely because I had no friends. Then Don Fernando started coming on to me and I was flattered. I didn’t realize he was taking advantage of my loneliness till much afterward. I have since found out that he was a womanizer and I was nothing special to him, he was simply a predator seeking his own satisfaction with a younger woman. I foolishly fell for him and was too embarrassed to tell your father because I was afraid he would be so hurt that he would divorce me, so I kept it secret all these years. I didn’t want anyone to find out about this but Lilian kept bringing it up. I am ashamed and embarrassed that you had to find out this way. I did not want your father’s memory to be brought up with such hurt like this. I made a stupid mistake and I just don’t want you to hold it against me for the rest of my life.”
If she had said something like that instead of the “Fernando and I were so in love!” kind of thing, I think her children would have been a lot more understanding. Or she could have told her kids that Marcos knew about it and forgave her and that would have been the end of that one as she could have said, “Your father forgave me for this long ago. If he were here now, he’d tell you to forgive me too.” Marcos is dead, so there is no verifying it anyway, but it’s a way to mend things with her children.
APB Alert for Carito!
David needs to sue for that one and go to court to have them reinstalled. Seems to me that should be considered some type of easement.
As evidenced by the "Evil Grand Ruin of David" plan things like this are not left to the mood of an adjoining landowner, leaving all the Davids of the world to lay awake at night thinking "Sheezo I hope that new guy doesn't notice all those pipes."
You writers better come up with something believable, as I have already given you writers an abundance of gifts of belief in the impossible.
I hope Erika catches Miggy and Luci slurping around on each other. It is about time for her to get a dose of reality. And if those two DO get into a fight I hope they tear each other's clothes off. There hasn't been much for us carburetor and spark plug people.
Because on the surface this looks like a hairbrained scheme at best. I mean legal action, an existing easement, water trucks, a well, pump water out of Lisa's River of Death, there is a bunch of water there, is it on David's land? If not it is within walking distance and he has at least foot traffic access to it..
Tano: You're stuck with FerBrat buddy!
That is a helluva upgrade.
Not like from a Chevy to an Oldsmobile.
More like a skateboard to an Oldsmobile
Steve I am looking forward to Luci prissing over to Erika's place now to hang out with her old former, oops, wait, now again BFF Miggy. That should be an entertaining catfight. Now that Luci has found it in her heart to let her love go for the sake of his kids (and some unfinishid business with Miggy) now that she knows WHAT dat bidness is awl 'bout.
I will believe her altruism if she keeps her mouth off what is now Erika's property. We assume Erika properly and thoroughly 'marked' it the other night.
I may be wrong and Luci could always try as she could to assure Erika that she and Miggs are simply childhood friends , in her eyes at least, and that she wishes them the best and will try not to get in the way. San Francisco's newest visitor, Miggy, may see it differently, of course, and think this may be his last chance to claim what is rightfully (in his hayseed size brain) his.
Then the ride could get a bit bumpy
Tano is young and full of hope and energy, he can afford to rehabilitate a few crazies like FerBrat. I just hope he knows that flaky fruit stuff is strictly catch and release.
David's and lucy's. And this dip has a
Lot of bugs and maggots in it,juan,lil
Discrazy,marked off,Dr.Nutjob,the brat
And just all out interfearance. Come
On happy ending.
The situation in not the same, Davy and Lucy are single. Marty and ferny were not. Get it straight lil. That
Marriage was over but marta's wasn't.
And marcos was a good hard Workin man, husband. But kinda dropped the ball in not Payin attention to the wife. Ferny
Took care of the wife. Not good.
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