Tuesday, March 21, 2017
Vino el Amor, Lunes 3/20/17 Chapter 97: Paternity Blues
Prom night !!! Juan looked very handsome in that tux. Lilian looked better than I have ever seen her. I liked the color of her dress, and her hair looks so much better pulled back loosely. I hope they took those traditional prom pics.
Then, the confrontation. Juan Bond vs. Wyatt Earp. Leather vest #notplayinghere
Let's hope that Dave does not fall into this trap that Martin Mull and Disgracie are setting.
As to the notion of DisGrace and Luciana being sisters, considering that both Lillian and Marta are denying the possibility it is looking like the writers have been reading this blog and decided to have Juan bring this up as a means to either distract both of the women who "attacked" him or to set them more at each other's throats.
I agree about Lillian's hair; that's the best it has ever looked in the series.
"She trembled silently, a look of insanity entering her feral eyes" was my favorite and “Everyone believes you've done a bad thing, Juan,” said Gracie. [Stupidly; this is so bloody obvious.]" a close second.
"[Is anyone else creeped out by the “art” on his walls?]" UA, yes, it makes me uncomfortable and is VERY distracting.
Your recap was far, far superior to the episode. While I enjoyed Graciela's squirming at Juan's untrue revelation of sisterhood, the whole thing fell rather flat for me. There was no build up to speak of and the matter was firmly closed after firm rebuking from both Marta and Lilian. Not that I wanted this to linger, but it could have been an interesting plot development rather than someone's quick idea that flamed out in minutes. Also, Luci reacted to this the same way she seems to react to any crisis - being nonreactive. The character seems rather emotionally reserved, seemingly incapable of emotional displays of unreserved passion, rage or hurt.
If only the cut pipes had been discovered sooner! I'm glad Luci is thinking but shouldn't she have included Erika in asking about the water?? For the first time, Miguel seemed rather put out by Luci's appearance.
"She had told Miguel that Juan had nothing to do with the illegals and Mark was the only guilty party. Juan was mildly irritated" surprised me a bit. First, that Perla told Juan that at all but even more so, that Juan wasn't livid. Neither seems to understand the concept of guilt by association, do they?
Luci and Leon are kind children. While I don't think we were surprised they forgave Marta, they did so at lightening speed. "His answer was “Where there is life, there is hope” as they hugged." Love Leon.
And here I thought doctors had frantic schedules. Not Cesar apparently who can leave the hospital at any time to be by Susan's side. I am pleased they are a couple but Mark is obviously not going away.
"Prom night" indeed Susanlynn. I agree that Lili looked great last night.
UA, thank you!
The one thing that was pointing in this direction was DisGrace's constant rants about "faaaaaaaamily" and denying that Luciana belonged to it. Well, with 40+ episodes left there is still time for Luciana to get pregnant and another cliche is revived.
The water pipes cross NoJuan's land on the way from the river to David's. It appears NoJuan and Erika are side by side and between David and the river, with crossing Erika's land being an alternative now.
David had entered into an agreement long ago with Mr. Kent allowing his pipes to cross the Olive Garden. We were not told whether the agreement was such that it would stay in effect after the sale to NoJuan, but David is talking about suing, so that indicates it was his belief that it did.
Of course this does not mesh with the issues of Lil's showers and requests of water conservation in the mansion, as potable water for the house is probably not coming out of the irrigation water from the river.
We have now seen that there is ONE thing on Earth more important to DisGrace than claiming David. NOT BEING LUCI'S SISTAAAH !
When Marta and Lillian were both asked by their daughters whether they were sisters, neither woman blurted out "What ! are you crazy?" or "No...that is absurd." Instead they stalled while thinking what best way to lie about it, so I am assuming the little Hoes are sistahs.
That is perfect if they are.
Then if David doesn't get what he wants, he can accuse Adolfo of being a little bitch and having NoJuan cut the pipes to knock David out of the upcoming wine competition.
Typo Thank You Urban
Fernanda is horrible and it's not all Graciela's fault.
I believe Lilian and Marta lied and Luciana and Graciela are sisters.
Juan by far the best character in the show. The well timed taunts, smirks and maniacal laugh keep me highly entertained.
Luciana is pulling a power play by going directly to Miguel, forcing him to choose. If he chooses to help her he alienates Erika in the process. Luciana should have told David and the two of them go to Alfonso & Erika the land owners.
If someone possesses an easement for access that easement can be in perpetuity or end upon deed transfer or for a particular use, blah, blah, blah. Either David assumed it was but foolish and it isn't or Juan knows it is but also knows in the time it would take David to fight it in court the vineyard would fail. Even if David wins and Juan had to make him financially whole it could be years but David is out of the wine business.
"Ohhh I really liked that sequined top you wore to breakfast the other morning, David and I have to go to a wine tasting meeting tonight, can I borrow it?" Boom look out for cranial shrapnel.
"Oh Luci, honey, here lay face down here on the sofa and let me give you a backrub". ? ? ?
I swear, I think the only one in this show I trust is Bobby.
I just do not understand the lack of sense of urgency around this place. In every life threatening situation, we see people lollygaging around moping floors etc. when the grapevines are starving.
'Get out. get out, everyone out the building is on fire' "OK, after I finish my nap."
I agree about Fer. This stupid therapist deal is about 15 years too late. She is the way she will be for the rest of her life barring some life-changing trauma. Although we on the patio do see that trauma on the horizon.
OK Kirby and tofie, am I wrong again????
I will say I noticed the first thing Marta did was gulp and stare. Yet, I thought she was simply thrown off by the question and seemed genuine in her response. I didn't see any hint of subterfuge from Lili nor any eye rolling.
Kirby, I appreciate your insight on the water. Makes sense.
Kirby, yes! This vineyard is incompetent and slow to react. Easy pickings for the various villains. Also, why are Tano and Leon mopping when there is a WATER shortage?
I was disappointed we didn't get to see the charity party.
I'm team Lilian and Marta are lying like the lying liars they are.
Anyway, if it happened at the vineyard and Lilian and Fernando already there, Lisa and David had to be married. But wait, why would a young David have Lisa's parents already living and mooching off them? Or, if Lisa and Graciela young adults then Graciela would know the time line and surely David would have and could confirm to Luciana the timeline.
Unless all this happened somewhere else.
This assumes Marta and Lil didn't know each other at all initially or only briefly and they only got to know who each other are much later when they discovered who the other woman was.
Let's see what we know. FerBrat is 18 we know. Luci should be about mid twenties or a little younger to have recently finished college. Lisa would most likely be late thirties, based on FerBrat's age. DisGrace is either younger or older, and she almost has to be younger, as she is not in her forties, it appears. We will put her at low to mid thirties.
If Univision would just give us a Cliff's Notes on these show, Aw shit now my sliderule is overheating. I will have to finish this later.
We know from the other day that Leon had been born prior to the affair. We don't know whether it took place in Mexico or at the vineyard. If at the vineyard you'd think David would have heard about it through the grapevine (pun intended) but he knew nothing.
Luciana was ten years old in the opening episode and Leon 7 or 8. Fernanda looked about 3 and Bobby wasn't born yet. The affair happened years before the opening episode, possibly not long after the Munoz family arrived. I'm trying to remember exactly what Leon told Ingrid about crossing the border with his parents. If he was old enough to remember it first-hand he would have been maybe 4 at the youngest.
I think David is meant to be in his early 40s (GS will be 41 on his next birthday). Lisa was older than DisGrace, and both were in college at the same time as David and Juan. This means that DisGrace is probably now supposed to be in her mid-to-late thirties. Wonder how the actress feels about this, as she is 24 in real life.
Now I'm wondering whether the writers deliberately set up us with these clues for exactly this discussion.
Juan by far the best character in the show. The well timed taunts, smirks and maniacal laugh keep me highly entertained.
Tofie, ITA. Juan is the only character that kept me awake last night.
As the cuckolded one, Lil is in no position to know if Luciana is Fernando's. It's not like he and Marta gave her dates and times of their trysts. Marta is not above lying about this and she is silly enough to not demand Fernando's love child get her rightful inheritance and continue working there taking Lil's guff. But truth is, I think Marta isn't sure who the baby daddy is herself so just buried herself in denial all these years. I'm guessing (wildly without a speck of evidence) that Marcos found out about the affair, forgave Marta, and told her he accepted Lu as his and let's not ever bring it up again.
I agree with everybody who predicts those digs about Lu and Marta not being real family will explode in Lil's and DisGrace’s faces. Lu should start a catfight with DisGrace, grab some bleached strands, and get a DNA test match.
Every time Soosan and FinallySeizedher visit Miguel and Erika in the multipurpose room, I send them a mental message , "Don't sit on that sofa."
That said, Show having Marta and Lilian separately declare that Luciana and Graciela couldn't be sisters...my initial thought upon seeing that was that it was the show swerving away from the mother of all novela clichés, but I can't help thinking that it could just as easily have been a feint. (Albeit, this late in the show...if it was a feint, they'd have to revisit it pretty much immediately. And, since it would also mean that Lilian and Marta would have had to agree on something...yeah, that's a stumbling block the size of a water tank, though this might well be the one and only thing they could agree on. Ever.)
It all does highlight the show's gonzo temporal mechanics, though, as you noted above. And it sort of makes it worse. If both of Marta's kids had been born before she ever met Fernando, was the vineyard even in place then? This had to have been only a few years tops after David, Lisa, Juan and Graciela were all in school together and probably a couple of years before Fernanda was born. And since the show's gone out of its way to avoid any serious mentions of exact elapsed time from the get-go...the mind reels.
Nobody will believe you if anyone else is in the ladies room also.
Yes, the art on Juan's walls is creepy! And so is Juan. When Disgrace slapped him, I saw another flash of The Joker on his face.
Notice how Lilian is getting as much mileage out of this ancient affair as she can? She claims that it's "humiliating," but she doesn't stop talking about it.
And the party? What a waste of a party. Not one single brawl.
And Luci & Leon's anger at Marta has already blown over. That was quick.
Disgrace taking charge of the children: So much for kicking her out of the house.
Good for Susan, though I'm sure Mark's not finished with her yet.
Fernanda, still a brat.
"They couldn't report this to the police because Juan now owned the olive grove." Yeah, right. Police have gotten reports from people at the McDonald's drive-thru who were upset that they couldn't order something they wanted. I don't think the police would mind hearing about this.
I'm confused as to why Grace thought that her mother preferred Lisa because Luci might be their half-sister. Whuh?
Kirby: "this does not mesh with the issues of Lil's showers and requests of water conservation in the mansion, as potable water for the house is probably not coming out of the irrigation water from the river." I think what was happening there is that David and Ramon decided to temporarily use the household water supply (sparingly) in the vineyard until they could find a proper solution. That would be crazy-expensive but there would be no other option.
I knew Luci would be on the next bus to Santa Barbara (vineyard) as soon as she had an excuse, but asking MIGUEL was ridiculous... does Dave even know she's over there? I suppose Luci figures she can say that she's trying to appeal to Miguel as a friend to allow this as a personal favor, out of loyalty to David and yadda yadda yadda, but it's just ludicrous and I hope someone calls her out on it.
The way Lillian goes on and on about the affair she would have had to have spent significant time contemplating whether a child could have resulted from it (Many cuckolded women do that, even to this extent). Maybe Fernando was smart enough to use condoms or Marta has/had an IUD. Marta has spent ages with the secret, which Marcos died without discovering. That might explain why she didn't make more of an effort to reunite with him, although returning to Mexico before being a legal US resident would have meant she couldn't re-enter the US for ten years. She has no reason to lie about this now unless she is seriously afraid of Luciana rejecting her again.
There is nothing to prevent Luciana or DisGracie from demanding a DNA test, either. However, while Luciana is practical-minded and able to deal with it, DisGrace would go off the deep end either way. I think Lillian knows that, too.
We've been mentioning the "art" in Juan's apartment. It points to a deep hatred of women, since their faces are semi-erased in those large-format posters on his walls. I could see him using this Povichism to distract DisGracie and rock those short-circuited neurons from remembering that he has something real to hold over her head. He has Lisa's cell phone, which could carry evidence of the murder. DisGracie doesn't know that. Perla has seen that phone and could end up being the one who uncovers this secret despite that she has no current motive for disclosing it.
And I hope David isn't tempted by Disgrace's offer of financial support. She ought to be running out of money soon.
Both DisGracie and Lillian put their eggs in the wrong baskets. There is nothing shameful in working.
What she could have done is tell David and he speak with Lilian and she convince Alfonso to allow an easement. Fixed.
A. WHY? she had nothing of a personal or secretive nature to talk to Miggy about.
B. AND, it is Erika she should have been asking about the 'pipes' anyway.
It is like the spark plug changer down at the Honda place asking the tire balancer guy what color he wants my car painted.
Lillian out of this..
You want to see Luciana as mean-spirited. She isn't that. The only mean that is in her is when people she cares about are threatened.
Erika is insecure. How much of this is a perceived threat from Luciana or from her medical condition we don't know. I don't think she has ever said anything about her past dating life, but asthma can be scary to those unfamiliar with it.
Given how easily Soo-San was abused by SkidMark, you have to admire Luci's independence and fearless confrontations, but it can backfire just as easily.
I really saw no evidence that she was trying to get Mig back on the hook - but it is extremely irregular for an employee of one place to ask an employee of another place for the kind of favor that should be negotiated between owners. Unless she's profoundly ignorant of how these things work, her motivation is questionable.
My gut instinct is that she misses him and wants to see him whenever she can, regardless of whether it's a good idea and even though she has no intentions towards him. Which is selfish and will only confuse him, even if it's without malice.
Some people aren't aware that there are people who don't like to be friend-zoned and that for those people that is a complete dead end. In Luciana's case I chalk that up to inexperience. And she also might be ignorant of corporate politics for a similar reason.
OK, Graciela would you rather be Luci's sister
OR have cooties and a STD?
Final Answer? Yes
OK, hey cootie guy, over here !
UA, I also don't think her lack of following the chain of command was intentional. She just isn't aware of it, through lack of inexperience.
Agree Kirby she isn't "mean spirited" but I (gently) don't agree she is abrasive. Determined, prone not to think things through, keeping her options open - yes, to all of these.
I am nervous about Mark. The smack Soosan gave him is going to set him off. I like the way Seizedher had his hand on Susy's shoulder when they were sitting on that sofa(bed). . He looked like a happily married hombre. I hope that Marked does not go after Soosy or Seizeher , but I am afraid that he will. I hate looking at his smug face. Jackass.
Ooops I forgot, this is a TN. Mark will kidnap her helpless ass and mix her in with the illegals, until he can ship her to a brothel inYugoslavia,
What is your picture, Kirby? It's too small to make out.
I haven’t had time to read all the comments yet as I’ve been busy at work all day with NO BREAKS (except for lunch, but I ate instead of looking at my computer) and I’m sneaking a peek now. I’m under a deadline here and I have to meet it on Thursday night.
Anyway, I am puzzled at how both Marta and Lilian dodged their daughter’s questions about them being sisters. Instead of Marta saying,”What? Of course not! I didn’t even meet Fernando till after we moved to the USA and you and Leon were already born.” No but she and Lil go through this dodging here and there and “why do you ask” kind of thing and dance around the subject till they could finally give an answer. It was like “Who wants to be a millionaire?” and they both needed a lifeline in order to come up with an answer.
As for Mark, I think he is going to pull something he can’t get out of soon and get caught red handed. Maybe he will go back to jail and stay there. Susan did the right thing standing up to him. Bullies can’t take someone standing up to them.
Julie...weapon of choice..hairspray..excellent tip
Kirby, you are a problem solver, mi amigo. You can tell that you are an engineer.
It fluffed itself up to look bigger and was yelling at me. It had chicks and was really protective
If they turn out not to be sisters then it was Juan messing with their heads, which is what DisGracie deserves considering what she is doing to Fernanda. Luciana can handle this. She may be somewhat naive about certain things but she is psychologically healthy from having had a loving father. She may be more forthright than is socially appropriate at times, but she doesn't sit on things like this forever.
It isn't particularly unusual for women in Lillian's position to bitch and moan about this for longer than is healthy. A friend of mine obsessed about an infidelity for ten years after the divorce. She kept on wondering what in hell was wrong with her that her marriage was ended and what was so attractive about the "other woman" (whom she not only never met but didn't know her name). After the third time I heard her say this I started saying that this speculation would do no good as she had no way of learning the answers.
I confess, I really wanted Luci and Disgrace to be related. The timeline would seem to rule that out, but if the mothers were being evasive for some reason besides dramatic effect, there are still ways that it could work. Like Marta could have had two affairs with Fernando - one in Mexico during the before-time (maybe even before Marcos), and again in Sonoma when they were coincidentally (?) reunited.
Farfetched? Yes. Fun? Maybe!
That"he is not your baby daddy"mystery is solved. As if somebody want crazy for a sister. Lisa can testify to that
O She can't, cuz baby sis cracked her scull with a rock dowwwn by the river.
Lucy you my dear dodged a bullet.
Speaking of that river, couldn't they
Get water from there? Or is it on juan's property? O david, you're in a pickle darlin. And Lucy went to ask
Ericka, wow. I really want see how that turns out tonight.
Fer is so selfish. Tano is workin and tryin to help her dad save hers and Bobby's inheritance,and she cant think about nothing but her selfish butt. She need to go get a job and stop being a pain in the Butt. Never mind he's workin, "granny Could you send for tano?" And stupid granny does it. knowing she don't even like her grandkids.
So glad susyQ grew a pair and put markoff In his place. And shes willin to give "Hale cesar" a chance at love. Im glad To see some action happening This tn. Cuz for a long time it was sleepy Town. But Gabriel looks like this in all the tns he's in. He needs to get back with Lucy so he can smile again.
Thank you Urban, this was yummy:)
Unsure. I don't think the timeline would have allowed that either. But that would have been a major bomb. And Especially for ferbrat, "auntee lucy".
Bobby would have loved it.cutypie.
Actually, I have the impression that the pipes could go around, but that's too long/expensive and it would be much better to take a shortcut through the neighbor's property.
The writers could push this either way as to whether there was anything leading up to Luciana's conception.
I'll bet there are better examples of in-law relationships, but that one's fairly recent.
I tried googling for more examples and didn't find any (didn't try very hard), but I did find this: Bill Wyman's mother-in-law married Bill Wyman's son. EW! (Wyman's wife was 18; his son was 31. That would have been weird enough if it had just been those two getting together.)
the son had no blood relation, IE Father's second wife's Mom married first wife son
All I can say about the "Big Reveal," is QQQue? After the build up we got in the avances, we should have known it was all a set up. Whoever called it, way, way, back, got it right. Marta and Marcos' children were born in Mexico and came with them. Marta says she didn't "meet" Fernando until after they were here. Of course, the two women involved could BOTH still be lying. A child born to one and attributed to another would be an even greater scandal to overcome. So, we're not through yet with the "birther" conspiracy.
Otherwise, why would Lil every have told Gus that her husband had a child with another woman. Maybe it's Erika!!!! Unless, we're back to it again, she was lying to make her look like a bigger victim to Gus than she really is.
Why did Adolfo's wife go back to Spain? Hmmm...
So, if the river does not border the vineyard property, Lisa and Disgrace were on the neighbor's property when they had that rumble at the river.
Lila...Lila...are you there? Are you lurking? Can you comment or are you keeping a low, "I am working" profile?
I assume we are not supposed to think about this, but it is really hard (writers?) not to.
There are a gadzillion other things. Where is the pump, on David's land, or at the intake end? If there who supplies power? David's land is much higher elevation than the river it looks like, so it needs to be at the river. Did they check that first?
He needed an engineer to tell him someJuan cut the pipes? I hope he never buys a boat. !
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