Tuesday, March 21, 2017
Vino el Amor, Lunes 3/20/17 Chapter 97: Paternity Blues
David tried to assure Luciana
that this separation is temporary. She looks a bit doubtful but he
says that these are difficult times but they will get through them.
He misses her. Before they can seal it with a kiss Ramón entered to
tell them that they need to talk about diverting the river water.
Complicated, but the only way at the moment. After he leaves the
room Luciana asks whether that is the only way. And David says they
need also to find out what is causing the current problem.
Perla was relaxing on the bed –
or sulking – when Juan entered, demanding to know whether she was
ready. She told him she was not going because she waited up for him
the night before, he was out forever, and she had no idea where he
had been. He almost begs her to go because it is very important and
she is angry that he had prioritized Mark over her. [Is anyone
else creeped out by the “art” on his walls?]
Luciana told David that she would
talk to Susan about the water problem then asked him about the doctor
for the second opinion.
“Fernanda said she was fed up
with doctors and wouldn't talk to him. I hope the therapy with Dr
Anderson works because I can't convince her to see anyone else.”
Erika and Miguel had another
disagreement over his involvement with the illegals and Carito's
situation. “Let the police handle it!” she said. Miguel told
her that his own reputation was at stake and he needed to make sure
to get clear of all charges. She said she understood but didn't want
him to risk his life. If he did that again she would not support him
in it.
Luciana was in the cava when
Marta came in to tell Luciana that the water pipes had arrived.
David was busy with the doctor inside. Tano said he would take care
of the delivery and left them alone. In an awkward effort to
converse, Marta asked how things were going. Luciana told her that
things were very bad and she wanted to go to the party, but for the
moment did not want any more problems to bother David. She left
Marta alone.
Anderson told David that Fernanda
needed a female role model who would show her love and affection. [I
don't like where this is going.] David said he hoped that
Luciana could fill that role. Anderson said “I don't know this
young woman, but he didn't think it could be a woman that young.
David gave him a look and he said that it needed to be a woman
Fernanda could admire and respect. Fernanda came into David's study,
dressed for a party (in red, like her succubi relatives) and telling
Anderson that she was ready. David gave her a kiss and left.
Luciana and Susan were talking
when David arrived with the conclusion that since the original
irrigation pipes passed through the olive grove that Juan was
responsible for this.
Marta was adjusting Brian's
bowtie when Juan and Perla arrived. The men shook hands, Juan
introduced Perla, and Brian went to the press conference in his
office. Juan teased Lillian about having to spend time with people
she despises. Lillian gloated over the Big Revelation that happened
in front of Fernanda and Luciana and how she “put Marta in her
place.” Juan was amused. Brian came back and they left for the
party.
Susan and Luciana saw that this
riled David up and told him that he needed to be calm about this.
Losing his temper was not going to get him anywhere. David
remembered Juan's threats and couldn't help feeling angry about this.
He was determined to find Juan and force an explanation.
Fernanda was in her room writing
when Gracie arrived asking how her therapy was going. Fernanda said
it was going well, little by little, and Gracie promised to take her
shopping. Fernanda told her that Lillian said she would help with
Tano. Gracie said that was a big step. Her tone showed some
surprise and a little disbelief. Fernando then told her “Dr
Anderson said I need a mother. A female image to model.”
“You need to tell your father.
It's very important that he know that.”
“Yes, but I don't want to fight
with him.”
“No. You aren't doing anything
wrong telling him what you talk about in therapy. Besides, your
father finally threw Luciana to the curb.” She was grinning.
“He didn't put her completely
out of his life. I just don't want him with her.”
Slowly but surely Marta and her
adult children were forgiving each other while Perla returned from
the party with Juan (to his place, of course). She talked about the
event being a big success and Juan puffed out his chest at now being
a patrón instead of being employed by one. They sat down on the
couch and Perla asked if he would keep his word and get rid of Mark.
Juan tried to be dismissive but Perla did not want Mark around. She
had told Miguel that Juan had nothing to do with the illegals and
Mark was the only guilty party. Juan was mildly irritated but became
more so when his cell rang and he saw that it was David calling. He
decided to go over there.
Marta had been explaining that
while she had illusions about Fernando that Marcos had always been
there for her. Luciana said that she and León had discussed this
and concluded that their father would have forgiven her. Marta told
her that the exposure of this secret was like being relieved of a
huge burden. The subject appears to have closed, at least for the
moment. Luciana got up to go to David to make sure that he didn't
get into another confrontation with Juan. She hugged Marta and left.
Marta then confessed to her son
that she had changed her mind about Luciana and David. His answer
was “Where there is life, there is hope” as they hugged.
David was in the office that had
once been Juan's studying a plan when Gracie entered in her tight
jeans and sequined top. He told her he was trying to solve the water
problem.
“Well, I won't take too much of
your time,” she said, leaning against the desk. “Fer seems to be
doing well in her therapy.”
“Yes, that's what Anderson told
me.”
“Well, you're in charge of the
vineyard while I take charge of the children.... it's my way of
helping you.”
“Yes, as you told me since this
morning,” he said, without looking at her.
“Well, I just want for you to
not worry about the children so you can concentrate on your work,”
she said. She looked almost a little desperate until Luciana
entered, at which point she turned around with a gloating expression.
“Luciana, thanks for taking charge of the water problem while I
take care of David's children.”
Luciana did not take the bait.
“How nice. David, did you find
Juan?” she asked David.
“He didn't answer.”
“That can't be.”
“But I talked to the engineer
and he said that effectively the pipes have been cut.”
“What? What did Juan do?”
asked Gracie. She looked genuinely surprised.
Susan was walking alone in town
talking on her cell phone about the irrigation problem. She was not
careful and did not see Mark, who was lying in wait for her. Just as
she ended the call he grabbed her from behind.
“Leave me alone,” she said.
“I don't care what the police
say. You're mine. Don't you ever forget that.”
She slapped him.
“Not any more. I'm sick of you
and I don't have to stand you. Because I'm not afraid anymore.”
She turned her back to him and
took two steps. Sensing correctly that he was trying to close the
distance between then she stopped and turned around, pointing in his
face.
“I told you. Leave me alone.”
She walked away. He looked
embarrassed.
“Now I know why Juan wanted
those lands,” said David.
“So he's deceived us all,”
said Gracie.
“What a wretch,” said
Luciana.
“Well, things aren't going to
stay this way,” said David.
Juan walked in without knocking.
“It can,” he said.
David got up and grabbed Juan by
the lapels.
“What are you doing here?” he
demanded.
“And to think we used to be
friends.”
“What do you think you're doing
here?”
“You want to hit me?”
“Luciana won't stop me.”
“What are you trying to do?”
“What, are you crazy?”
Graciela said.
“Why did you destroy the water
pipes? I had an agreement!”
“I dismantled the system
carrying water to your property that you had with Kent.”
“What? But I had an agreement
with him.”
“Yes, yes; with Kent, but not
with me.”
“We should sue,” said
Luciana.
“Oh, yeah? Ask a lawyer.
Those are my lands and I can do as I please with the water on my
property.”
“What did you do, Juan?”
Gracie asked.
“Do you know what's happening
to my lands right now?” asked David.
“Yes, yes, yes. They'll dry up
and return nothing to you. But we can make peace, be friends again.
Sell me your lands. Or would you prefer your vineyard to dry up?”
Juan smirked while both women
looked at him, horrified.
“You're crazy, Juan. Never
will you end up with my lands.”
“All I have to do is wait on my
lands for you to call me to buy it all. And you know what? I'll
offer you mercy.”
“You are a traitor!” yelled
Luciana, charging at him. David stopped her.
“Oh, no, Luciana,” said Juan.
“It's David's fault that my father lost these lands.” He looked
at David. “It will please me to see you out in the street.”
“I won't give you the
satisfaction. I will find the way out of this.”
“Just try it. When you run out
of money I'll offer your children work on my lands.”
David grabbed his lapels and
shoved him back against the sideboard.
“Don't you speak of my
children!” David shouted in his face.
Juan laughed. Luciana tapped
David on the shoulder.
“David, it's not worth it,”
she said.
“Do what you will, I will not
allow any water you need to leave my lands,” said Juan.
“How did you dare do this?”
asked Gracie.
“You don't know what pity you
inspire in me, Juan,” David said.
“How is it you feel pity?”
“Because I will get out of
this. But you will come out with all this hate and envy you have for
me. And that, 'dear' Juan, is what will destroy you.”
Susan called César to tell him
about what happened with Mark in the street. He said he would come
to her. She was in a restaurant.
“The first thing I will do is
bring charges because I have all the agreements made with Kent.”
“Now I am the owner and I have
all the legal authority to do what I want with my land.”
“Then you will lose money
because we will resolve this,” said Luciana.
“How? How? You think anyone
will help you?”
“Everyone believes you've done
a bad thing, Juan,” said Gracie. [Stupidly; this is so bloody
obvious.]
“You must feel very happy
having two women to defend you, eh?” Juan made mock kissing sounds
at him.
“Stop with this stupidity and
get out. This is the last time I will see you here,” said David.
“We will see each other because
the next time I will be the owner of all this!” said Juan. He
stepped out toward the door. “I'm going, amigo. I know the way.”
He closed the door behind him and
David slammed his hand on the sideboard. Gracie came out from behind
the desk.
“David, calm down. Don't pay
any attention to him.”
“Please, can you do me the
favor of leaving?”
Gracie acquiesced and left,
closing the door. Luciana took David's hand.
“David, calm down. Juan will
not win.”
“Of course he will not win. I
swear this to you.”
Lillian returned home to find
Marta still awake with a dustrag in hand.
“Do you like my dress?”
Lillian taunted.
“Oh, please. When was
it every important what I thought?”
“No. What you think isn't
important to me, but Brian was fascinated and he was happy to present
me to all the important people in Sonoma.”
“Yes, I imagine that you think
your miserable life is good for something.”
Lillian laughed.
“But did you never suspect that
in the end Gutiérrez doesn't love you?”
“Brian adores me,” Lillian
said. “Because he will deny me nothing. Someone as small as you
is not enough for him now.”
“That I am a working woman does
not matter. As opposed to you? Who will maintain you?”
Lillian deliberately picked up a
piece of red pottery and dropped it on the wood floor.
“I dropped it,” she said in
mock-remorse. “Clean it up.”
Lillian headed for the stairs.
She did not see Sonia enter the room from the other side.
“Ay, Marta,” she said in
sympathy.
“Don't worry,” she answered.
“It's unimportant, least of all [???]”
They picked up the pieces
together.
Juan was outside the distillery
as Gracie came out of it.
“I can't believe you were so
stubborn in front of David. I did everything you would have wanted.”
“Oh, so now you own the olive
grove?”
“Yes, and other things.”
“You are crazy.” She turned
away.
“This is only the beginning,
Graciela. I gave you an opportunity to be on my side. We'd do well
together. But you're telling me to go to hell.”
“Well, after your threats I
won't come back to you, Juanito.”
“Then you will know the
consequences.”
“No, it's you who has to watch
out.”
“Your beloved David will be
left with nothing. And from what I've seen, you will be without
him.”
Gracie laughed slyly.
“No, no, no. David will be
mine.”
“Really? You left him alone
with Luciana. He asked you to.”
Gracie tried to wave this off.
“Think what you want.”
Luciana came out of the buiding.
“Look at this!” said Juan.
“It's so nice to see you together. Despite it all you're together
in defending David.”
“What is this foolishness,
Juan?” Luciana said.
“No, this isn't foolishness.
You know all about Marta and your father?” He looked from one to
the other. “Now, the result is that you're sisters.”
Both looked at Juan as though he
were insane. Then they looked at each other. Juan smirked.
Fernanda was in her room; she
appeared to be doing homework. Lillian entered and asked whether she
wanted anything. Fernanda thanked her but said no. She wasn't
hungry either. She then pouted that Tano wasn't paying her any
attention because he was worried about the water. Lillian pointed
out that Tano is always concerned about work and the other employees
and FerBrat pulled the poor little me stuff again. Lillian was
getting impatient but tried to rein it in as she told Fernanda she
would speak to him about this. That got the girl's attention and
Lillian told her to enter through the kitchen. She told her to come
in through the servants' entrance. Fernanda almost balked but said
“You are the best grandmother in the world,” said Fernanda.
Lillian hugged her. [Really, David, you should take this child to
the same shrink Bobby is seeing, or have him recommend someone. What
this girl needs is a child psychologist.]
“Nobody says things like that
to me, Juan,” said Gracie. She was getting nervous.
“Look, for good or not, I think
you could be sisters.”
“You better leave, Juan,”
said Luciana. “If you don't I'll make mashed potatoes out of you.”
“Well, now we know who is the
squeaky wheel in the family. You'll leave your sister Gracie in the
dust.”
“Shut up!” said Gracie.
“You don't have the right to
interfere in our lives,” said Luciana.
“I'm just saying that the call
of the blood is very strong,” he said. He looked at Luciana. “It's
why you wanted to return.”
“You know what? I don't have
to put up with you,” said Luciana. She walked away. Gracie waited
a second.
“How did it occur to you to say
I'm the sister of that idiot?”
“Ay, Graciela. Just question
what you've been told. I think it's a good thing. You have a little
sister. I just hope she doesn't end up like the other one.”
“You are an idiot.” said
Gracie. She slapped him as hard as she could. He paused for a
minute, checked for blood, and laughed.
“You can say what you want,
Graciela. Because this is the best day of my life.”
“Get out of here.”
“Think about all this. I
congratulate you. Now I know it's true.”
“You think it will be fun to
hurt David. Do so and you will pay.”
“Whatever you want,” he
taunted as he left. She trembled silently, a look of insanity
entering her feral eyes.
David told Ramón, León, and
Tano about the confrontation with Juan. He explained that they have
to find another water solution. They couldn't report this to the
police because Juan now owned the olive grove. Meeting concluded.
Lillian was gossiping in the
kitchen with Sonia over glasses of vino. Juan was the subject along
with the money being spent on Perla who wore the most outrageously
colored dress. Mandarina! [Really, Marta, was this more important
than how guapo Brian looks in a tux?] She then sent Sonia to get
David so he would meet Fernanda in the kitchen. Sonia didn't like
this, but didn't argue. Just as she left Gracie came charging in.
“Luciana is my sister?” she asked.
Marta was washing the floor in
the employees' quarters. Luciana came in for the same reason as
Gracie did in the main house.
“I want you to tell me the
truth.”
Marta stopped swabbing the deck
and looked at her.
“Ay, that sounds serious.
What's wrong?”
“Mother, when exactly did this
thing happen with Señor Fernando?”
“Ay, Luciana, why are you going
on about this?”
“Please, I need to know.”
“Why, daughter?”
“It's that I'm very worried.”
“About?”
“Mother, am I the daughter of
Marcos or of Señor Fernando?”
“From where did you get this
stupid idea?” Lillian asked.
“Tell me! Tell me, this affair
with Father and Marta was a long time ago and Luciana... could she be
my sister?”
“Grace, I truly think you're
crazy.”
“I'm not crazy, Mother! Of
course, maybe. You always preferred Lisa. Please, tell me.”
“No. From where did you hear
this nonsense?”
“Juan, when he came to bother
David.”
“Why?”
“Mother, that's not important.
Don't change the subject! First it's the wine, then he made fun of
me, then that stupid Luciana, and then that we could be sisters.”
“That imbecile! He has no idea
what he's talking about.”
“From what I could see he had
some idea about it because he knew all about it. You have to tell me
the truth! Am I Luciana's sister? Yes or no?”
“What are you talking about?”
Marta asked Luciana.
“Mother, everyone accepts that
you had a thing with Señor Fernando. Tell me, am I his daughter?”
“Ay, daughter, you're having
doubts? Why are you asking me this?”
“Mother, I'm sorry but I need
you to tell me this.”
“I don't know why you are
doubting this. Look at yourself.” She put down the mop. “You
have my Marcos' smile. The same gestures. His goodness. I know
you're angry at what happened but you're hurting yourself. From
where did you get this idea?”
“Juan. He said this to
Graciela and to me. He made fun of us and said we could be sisters.”
“How can you think this woman
could be your sister? Really, you must be sick.”
“No! Father could have been
capable of anything after Marta confessed – Luciana and I could be
related.”
“No!”
“Are you sure? Do you know
since how long ago he fooled around with Marta? Tell me.”
“It was a long time ago and I
don't think it was that long. It was just an affair.”
“Mama! Don't suppose! What is
your memory?”
“Do you think this is easy for
me? Do you think it's pretty remembering what your father did to
me?”
“I don't care and I'm very
sorry but you have to clarify because I can't take this.”
“Juan is an idiot and he
doesn't know what he's talking about,” Marta said to Luciana. “You
are the child of Marcos just as much as León. You were born in
Mexico and came here with us long before I knew Fernando.”
“Of course. You met him after
we got here, right?”
“Of course. Dear God, I can't
believe you doubt this.”
“I'm sorry, Mother, but I
believed that you were incapable of doing anything like this to my
father.”
“Ay, daughter, I understand,
but something like this? You think that? It's too much, isn't it?”
“I don't know, Mother. There
were too many lies before this.”
“Of course not, daughter. You
are the daughter of Marcos, full stop. Don't allow that idiot to put
those ideas in your head. He's only looking to hurt you.”
“Well, Graciela took it the
same or worse than I did.”
“Well, then it will bother her
the same or worse than it did you. But this is a lie he has nothing
to do with. Look at you. You're Marcos' daughter. She's insipid
and the daughter of Fernando.”
Luciana laughed.
“OK, I believe you.”
“Besides, what was that man
doing here?”
“He came to brag to David that
he was the one who cut off the water.”
“What a damned wretch.”
“Your father met Marta when she
was married and had two children.”
“Are your really sure?”
“Yes. You and that woman don't
have anything to do with each other.”
“Ay!” She stared at the
ceiling, which was about as close as she would ever get to Heaven.
“Thank God.” She looked at her mother. “I hope you're not
lying.”
“No!” Lillian looked as
shocked as she was capable.
“Alright. That's all I need to
know. Thanks.”
“Now explain to me why Juan
came.”
“To ruin our lives as usual.”
“So what has he done now?”
“He took away the water.”
“What? What a wretch!”
“He's an idiot, Mama. He will
ruin my plans if he leaves David in ruin.”
“Our plans, if you please.”
“Do you realize what it takes
to ruin a water system? And where is David going to get a new system
for his lands?”
“I don't know. David has to do
something. Or wait until we're all in ruin.”
“That could be. The only
solution is to put in new pipes and that will be very expensive.”
“Ah, good. But that is not
your problem. You can lend him the money to irrigate his plants and
not and save them. His pride should take a back seat to something
this serious, shouldn't it? It's his wine.”
César and Susan were together in
the restaurant. He suggested they get closer, even that they live
together. She asked him whether he was sure and he said he was. He
asked her to think about it. It looked like they were going to move
ahead with this.
León and Tano talked in the cava
about girls. León started mentioning his misunderstanding with
Sonia just as she arrived.
Luciana told David about Juan's
lie which only lowered David's opinion of him more. They didn't
waste much time talking about this, but went on about the water
problem. She seemed to get a new idea, but didn't elaborate on it.
Sonia had to tell Fernanda that
Tano was too busy with the emergency to come to see her. She played
the victim again.
Susan and César visited Miguel
at Santa Barbara. She told him that one of Mark's businesses is the
transportation of produce. One of the illegal immigrants remembered
being in a produce truck. Miguel said he would see Gutierrez about
it. Miguel asked how things were going at the vineyard and Susan
spilled the frijoles about the lack of water and that Juan had done
this. They left. Erika wanted Miguel to put everything about his
past job behind him. They kissed and Luciana knocked on the door.
Erika was not pleased that Luciana was there to talk to Miguel about
getting help for the water problem. She asked if it would be
possible to run the pipes through their property. [Erika will not
be happy about this.]
Gracie went into David's study to
start her seduction routine again with loan money as bait. He did
not look interested.
Labels: vino
Comments:
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thank you so much for that excellent recap.
Prom night !!! Juan looked very handsome in that tux. Lilian looked better than I have ever seen her. I liked the color of her dress, and her hair looks so much better pulled back loosely. I hope they took those traditional prom pics.
Then, the confrontation. Juan Bond vs. Wyatt Earp. Leather vest #notplayinghere
Let's hope that Dave does not fall into this trap that Martin Mull and Disgracie are setting.
Prom night !!! Juan looked very handsome in that tux. Lilian looked better than I have ever seen her. I liked the color of her dress, and her hair looks so much better pulled back loosely. I hope they took those traditional prom pics.
Then, the confrontation. Juan Bond vs. Wyatt Earp. Leather vest #notplayinghere
Let's hope that Dave does not fall into this trap that Martin Mull and Disgracie are setting.
Permalink posted by 
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 6:11:00 AM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 6:11:00 AM EDT
For the moment David is too distracted by the irrigation problem to realize that DisGrace is setting a 1950s trap by implying that they already have a traditional marriage relationship with this gender division of labor she is describing.
As to the notion of DisGrace and Luciana being sisters, considering that both Lillian and Marta are denying the possibility it is looking like the writers have been reading this blog and decided to have Juan bring this up as a means to either distract both of the women who "attacked" him or to set them more at each other's throats.
I agree about Lillian's hair; that's the best it has ever looked in the series.
As to the notion of DisGrace and Luciana being sisters, considering that both Lillian and Marta are denying the possibility it is looking like the writers have been reading this blog and decided to have Juan bring this up as a means to either distract both of the women who "attacked" him or to set them more at each other's throats.
I agree about Lillian's hair; that's the best it has ever looked in the series.
UA, another unbelievable outing. A fine, fiery recap. Perfect picture and your conversation translations were once again sensational.
"She trembled silently, a look of insanity entering her feral eyes" was my favorite and “Everyone believes you've done a bad thing, Juan,” said Gracie. [Stupidly; this is so bloody obvious.]" a close second.
"[Is anyone else creeped out by the “art” on his walls?]" UA, yes, it makes me uncomfortable and is VERY distracting.
Your recap was far, far superior to the episode. While I enjoyed Graciela's squirming at Juan's untrue revelation of sisterhood, the whole thing fell rather flat for me. There was no build up to speak of and the matter was firmly closed after firm rebuking from both Marta and Lilian. Not that I wanted this to linger, but it could have been an interesting plot development rather than someone's quick idea that flamed out in minutes. Also, Luci reacted to this the same way she seems to react to any crisis - being nonreactive. The character seems rather emotionally reserved, seemingly incapable of emotional displays of unreserved passion, rage or hurt.
If only the cut pipes had been discovered sooner! I'm glad Luci is thinking but shouldn't she have included Erika in asking about the water?? For the first time, Miguel seemed rather put out by Luci's appearance.
"She had told Miguel that Juan had nothing to do with the illegals and Mark was the only guilty party. Juan was mildly irritated" surprised me a bit. First, that Perla told Juan that at all but even more so, that Juan wasn't livid. Neither seems to understand the concept of guilt by association, do they?
Luci and Leon are kind children. While I don't think we were surprised they forgave Marta, they did so at lightening speed. "His answer was “Where there is life, there is hope” as they hugged." Love Leon.
And here I thought doctors had frantic schedules. Not Cesar apparently who can leave the hospital at any time to be by Susan's side. I am pleased they are a couple but Mark is obviously not going away.
"Prom night" indeed Susanlynn. I agree that Lili looked great last night.
UA, thank you!
Diana
"She trembled silently, a look of insanity entering her feral eyes" was my favorite and “Everyone believes you've done a bad thing, Juan,” said Gracie. [Stupidly; this is so bloody obvious.]" a close second.
"[Is anyone else creeped out by the “art” on his walls?]" UA, yes, it makes me uncomfortable and is VERY distracting.
Your recap was far, far superior to the episode. While I enjoyed Graciela's squirming at Juan's untrue revelation of sisterhood, the whole thing fell rather flat for me. There was no build up to speak of and the matter was firmly closed after firm rebuking from both Marta and Lilian. Not that I wanted this to linger, but it could have been an interesting plot development rather than someone's quick idea that flamed out in minutes. Also, Luci reacted to this the same way she seems to react to any crisis - being nonreactive. The character seems rather emotionally reserved, seemingly incapable of emotional displays of unreserved passion, rage or hurt.
If only the cut pipes had been discovered sooner! I'm glad Luci is thinking but shouldn't she have included Erika in asking about the water?? For the first time, Miguel seemed rather put out by Luci's appearance.
"She had told Miguel that Juan had nothing to do with the illegals and Mark was the only guilty party. Juan was mildly irritated" surprised me a bit. First, that Perla told Juan that at all but even more so, that Juan wasn't livid. Neither seems to understand the concept of guilt by association, do they?
Luci and Leon are kind children. While I don't think we were surprised they forgave Marta, they did so at lightening speed. "His answer was “Where there is life, there is hope” as they hugged." Love Leon.
And here I thought doctors had frantic schedules. Not Cesar apparently who can leave the hospital at any time to be by Susan's side. I am pleased they are a couple but Mark is obviously not going away.
"Prom night" indeed Susanlynn. I agree that Lili looked great last night.
UA, thank you!
Diana
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 7:19:00 AM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 7:19:00 AM EDT
I agree that this would have been a good plot twist except for evidence coming from both Lillian and Marta that this is not possible. It wasn't just what they said in their parallel conversations with their daughters, it was their demeanor. Both dismissed Juan as an imbecile who didn't know what he was talking about. Neither was nervous. And while Lillian didn't say this I'm sure she thought that Juan was looking to provoke DisGrace's crazy.
The one thing that was pointing in this direction was DisGrace's constant rants about "faaaaaaaamily" and denying that Luciana belonged to it. Well, with 40+ episodes left there is still time for Luciana to get pregnant and another cliche is revived.
The one thing that was pointing in this direction was DisGrace's constant rants about "faaaaaaaamily" and denying that Luciana belonged to it. Well, with 40+ episodes left there is still time for Luciana to get pregnant and another cliche is revived.
Oooo Kaayyy we have some definition on the water situation. It appears David pumps water (uphill) from the Lisa's river and it is stored in a reservoir tank at his premises. This explains why NoJuan's work on the pipes was not immediately obvious, as after he sabotaged the pipes, David was still operating on water from his tank(s).
The water pipes cross NoJuan's land on the way from the river to David's. It appears NoJuan and Erika are side by side and between David and the river, with crossing Erika's land being an alternative now.
David had entered into an agreement long ago with Mr. Kent allowing his pipes to cross the Olive Garden. We were not told whether the agreement was such that it would stay in effect after the sale to NoJuan, but David is talking about suing, so that indicates it was his belief that it did.
Of course this does not mesh with the issues of Lil's showers and requests of water conservation in the mansion, as potable water for the house is probably not coming out of the irrigation water from the river.
We have now seen that there is ONE thing on Earth more important to DisGrace than claiming David. NOT BEING LUCI'S SISTAAAH !
The water pipes cross NoJuan's land on the way from the river to David's. It appears NoJuan and Erika are side by side and between David and the river, with crossing Erika's land being an alternative now.
David had entered into an agreement long ago with Mr. Kent allowing his pipes to cross the Olive Garden. We were not told whether the agreement was such that it would stay in effect after the sale to NoJuan, but David is talking about suing, so that indicates it was his belief that it did.
Of course this does not mesh with the issues of Lil's showers and requests of water conservation in the mansion, as potable water for the house is probably not coming out of the irrigation water from the river.
We have now seen that there is ONE thing on Earth more important to DisGrace than claiming David. NOT BEING LUCI'S SISTAAAH !
Tjhank You Urban, great writing, quick too.
When Marta and Lillian were both asked by their daughters whether they were sisters, neither woman blurted out "What ! are you crazy?" or "No...that is absurd." Instead they stalled while thinking what best way to lie about it, so I am assuming the little Hoes are sistahs.
That is perfect if they are.
When Marta and Lillian were both asked by their daughters whether they were sisters, neither woman blurted out "What ! are you crazy?" or "No...that is absurd." Instead they stalled while thinking what best way to lie about it, so I am assuming the little Hoes are sistahs.
That is perfect if they are.
Luci had no business going to see Erika (Miggy). David needs to put Ms. Luci driving one of the water trucks and go see Adolfo himself. Owner to owner.
Then if David doesn't get what he wants, he can accuse Adolfo of being a little bitch and having NoJuan cut the pipes to knock David out of the upcoming wine competition.
Typo Thank You Urban
Then if David doesn't get what he wants, he can accuse Adolfo of being a little bitch and having NoJuan cut the pipes to knock David out of the upcoming wine competition.
Typo Thank You Urban
Loved every word UA. Thanks so much for the dialog.
Fernanda is horrible and it's not all Graciela's fault.
I believe Lilian and Marta lied and Luciana and Graciela are sisters.
Juan by far the best character in the show. The well timed taunts, smirks and maniacal laugh keep me highly entertained.
Luciana is pulling a power play by going directly to Miguel, forcing him to choose. If he chooses to help her he alienates Erika in the process. Luciana should have told David and the two of them go to Alfonso & Erika the land owners.
If someone possesses an easement for access that easement can be in perpetuity or end upon deed transfer or for a particular use, blah, blah, blah. Either David assumed it was but foolish and it isn't or Juan knows it is but also knows in the time it would take David to fight it in court the vineyard would fail. Even if David wins and Juan had to make him financially whole it could be years but David is out of the wine business.
Fernanda is horrible and it's not all Graciela's fault.
I believe Lilian and Marta lied and Luciana and Graciela are sisters.
Juan by far the best character in the show. The well timed taunts, smirks and maniacal laugh keep me highly entertained.
Luciana is pulling a power play by going directly to Miguel, forcing him to choose. If he chooses to help her he alienates Erika in the process. Luciana should have told David and the two of them go to Alfonso & Erika the land owners.
If someone possesses an easement for access that easement can be in perpetuity or end upon deed transfer or for a particular use, blah, blah, blah. Either David assumed it was but foolish and it isn't or Juan knows it is but also knows in the time it would take David to fight it in court the vineyard would fail. Even if David wins and Juan had to make him financially whole it could be years but David is out of the wine business.
I hope the two are sisters, as this will fly in the face of the Faaaaamilyyy broken record we have heard thousands of times from DisGrace.
"Ohhh I really liked that sequined top you wore to breakfast the other morning, David and I have to go to a wine tasting meeting tonight, can I borrow it?" Boom look out for cranial shrapnel.
"Ohhh I really liked that sequined top you wore to breakfast the other morning, David and I have to go to a wine tasting meeting tonight, can I borrow it?" Boom look out for cranial shrapnel.
Luci going directly to Miguel was a power play alright. She even had the gall to ask Erika to get out of her own 'multipurpose' room.
"Oh Luci, honey, here lay face down here on the sofa and let me give you a backrub". ? ? ?
I swear, I think the only one in this show I trust is Bobby.
I just do not understand the lack of sense of urgency around this place. In every life threatening situation, we see people lollygaging around moping floors etc. when the grapevines are starving.
'Get out. get out, everyone out the building is on fire' "OK, after I finish my nap."
I agree about Fer. This stupid therapist deal is about 15 years too late. She is the way she will be for the rest of her life barring some life-changing trauma. Although we on the patio do see that trauma on the horizon.
"Oh Luci, honey, here lay face down here on the sofa and let me give you a backrub". ? ? ?
I swear, I think the only one in this show I trust is Bobby.
I just do not understand the lack of sense of urgency around this place. In every life threatening situation, we see people lollygaging around moping floors etc. when the grapevines are starving.
'Get out. get out, everyone out the building is on fire' "OK, after I finish my nap."
I agree about Fer. This stupid therapist deal is about 15 years too late. She is the way she will be for the rest of her life barring some life-changing trauma. Although we on the patio do see that trauma on the horizon.
"When Marta and Lillian were both asked by their daughters whether they were sisters, neither woman blurted out "What ! are you crazy?" or "No...that is absurd" and "I believe Lilian and Marta lied and Luciana and Graciela are sisters".
OK Kirby and tofie, am I wrong again????
I will say I noticed the first thing Marta did was gulp and stare. Yet, I thought she was simply thrown off by the question and seemed genuine in her response. I didn't see any hint of subterfuge from Lili nor any eye rolling.
Kirby, I appreciate your insight on the water. Makes sense.
Diana
OK Kirby and tofie, am I wrong again????
I will say I noticed the first thing Marta did was gulp and stare. Yet, I thought she was simply thrown off by the question and seemed genuine in her response. I didn't see any hint of subterfuge from Lili nor any eye rolling.
Kirby, I appreciate your insight on the water. Makes sense.
Diana
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 9:05:00 AM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 9:05:00 AM EDT
Thank you UA! I am so glad you mentioned Juan's creepy art pieces. They give me the willies, especially that painting with the big eyes by the door.
Kirby, yes! This vineyard is incompetent and slow to react. Easy pickings for the various villains. Also, why are Tano and Leon mopping when there is a WATER shortage?
I was disappointed we didn't get to see the charity party.
I'm team Lilian and Marta are lying like the lying liars they are.
Kirby, yes! This vineyard is incompetent and slow to react. Easy pickings for the various villains. Also, why are Tano and Leon mopping when there is a WATER shortage?
I was disappointed we didn't get to see the charity party.
I'm team Lilian and Marta are lying like the lying liars they are.
Also, if the competent vineyard helps the dysfunctional vineyard, they will once again be lifting from the plot of the Hallmark movie last fall about vineyards.
Marta spent way too much time on "how could you think this of me" instead of coming right out with the truth. Lilian on the other hand I think doesn't want to go there.
Anyway, if it happened at the vineyard and Lilian and Fernando already there, Lisa and David had to be married. But wait, why would a young David have Lisa's parents already living and mooching off them? Or, if Lisa and Graciela young adults then Graciela would know the time line and surely David would have and could confirm to Luciana the timeline.
Unless all this happened somewhere else.
Anyway, if it happened at the vineyard and Lilian and Fernando already there, Lisa and David had to be married. But wait, why would a young David have Lisa's parents already living and mooching off them? Or, if Lisa and Graciela young adults then Graciela would know the time line and surely David would have and could confirm to Luciana the timeline.
Unless all this happened somewhere else.
The timelines for Luci and DisGrace sisters makes no sense. Unless Marta was already working at the vineyard before David married Lisa, and Marta met FerDonor at the wedding or something similar. If the conception of Luci was soon on the heels of that, and David and Lisa waited a year or two to start their family, that would put FerBrat and Luc at the right age differences,approximately. In order for Marta to have met FerDonor this way, Luci would have to be approximately one generation younger than Lisa. that would put Lisa's age now if alive at least Luci plus 18 or so. IE about 24 plus 18 to 20 or lower to mid forties. How old is David supposed to be?
This assumes Marta and Lil didn't know each other at all initially or only briefly and they only got to know who each other are much later when they discovered who the other woman was.
Let's see what we know. FerBrat is 18 we know. Luci should be about mid twenties or a little younger to have recently finished college. Lisa would most likely be late thirties, based on FerBrat's age. DisGrace is either younger or older, and she almost has to be younger, as she is not in her forties, it appears. We will put her at low to mid thirties.
If Univision would just give us a Cliff's Notes on these show, Aw shit now my sliderule is overheating. I will have to finish this later.
This assumes Marta and Lil didn't know each other at all initially or only briefly and they only got to know who each other are much later when they discovered who the other woman was.
Let's see what we know. FerBrat is 18 we know. Luci should be about mid twenties or a little younger to have recently finished college. Lisa would most likely be late thirties, based on FerBrat's age. DisGrace is either younger or older, and she almost has to be younger, as she is not in her forties, it appears. We will put her at low to mid thirties.
If Univision would just give us a Cliff's Notes on these show, Aw shit now my sliderule is overheating. I will have to finish this later.
Tofie, Lillian and Fernando probably weren't living there full-time. Until the affair Lillian may not have been as insufferable as she now is unless there was a prior incident of Fernando cheating on her but not doing so this close to home.
We know from the other day that Leon had been born prior to the affair. We don't know whether it took place in Mexico or at the vineyard. If at the vineyard you'd think David would have heard about it through the grapevine (pun intended) but he knew nothing.
Luciana was ten years old in the opening episode and Leon 7 or 8. Fernanda looked about 3 and Bobby wasn't born yet. The affair happened years before the opening episode, possibly not long after the Munoz family arrived. I'm trying to remember exactly what Leon told Ingrid about crossing the border with his parents. If he was old enough to remember it first-hand he would have been maybe 4 at the youngest.
I think David is meant to be in his early 40s (GS will be 41 on his next birthday). Lisa was older than DisGrace, and both were in college at the same time as David and Juan. This means that DisGrace is probably now supposed to be in her mid-to-late thirties. Wonder how the actress feels about this, as she is 24 in real life.
Now I'm wondering whether the writers deliberately set up us with these clues for exactly this discussion.
We know from the other day that Leon had been born prior to the affair. We don't know whether it took place in Mexico or at the vineyard. If at the vineyard you'd think David would have heard about it through the grapevine (pun intended) but he knew nothing.
Luciana was ten years old in the opening episode and Leon 7 or 8. Fernanda looked about 3 and Bobby wasn't born yet. The affair happened years before the opening episode, possibly not long after the Munoz family arrived. I'm trying to remember exactly what Leon told Ingrid about crossing the border with his parents. If he was old enough to remember it first-hand he would have been maybe 4 at the youngest.
I think David is meant to be in his early 40s (GS will be 41 on his next birthday). Lisa was older than DisGrace, and both were in college at the same time as David and Juan. This means that DisGrace is probably now supposed to be in her mid-to-late thirties. Wonder how the actress feels about this, as she is 24 in real life.
Now I'm wondering whether the writers deliberately set up us with these clues for exactly this discussion.
Gee, first I have to worry about being sent to detention hall, and now, I am supposed to do thecmath. Kirby, I have never been a fan of slide rulers, protractors , and compasses or math in general, and I often ponder how I gave birth to someone who loves math and was a double major in math and computer science. When I would ask her if her homework was done, she would answer , "EVerything except Algebra. I'm saving it for after dinner." It was dessert. ANyhoo, I have a feeling that we , like Cinderella's evil stepsisters, are trying to fit our feet into a shoe that is too tiny for us. I think that we are thinking about this timeline much more than the writers ever did. Aren't writers supposed to plot all the time and care details out as canon before they start to actually write the story? I have read a book series in which the writer forgot the year a character was born and changed the age in later books.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 10:36:00 AM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 10:36:00 AM EDT
Urban if the writers did----it worked. So Leon is younger than Luci, we know that and the affair happened after his birth and that blows this whole sisterhood thing away. OK thanks. Unless the affair was an of again on again thing for years, but we do not have anything to make us believe that.
Thanks, Urban. Fabulous job. It's the recaps and comments that keep me with Vino.
Juan by far the best character in the show. The well timed taunts, smirks and maniacal laugh keep me highly entertained.
Tofie, ITA. Juan is the only character that kept me awake last night.
As the cuckolded one, Lil is in no position to know if Luciana is Fernando's. It's not like he and Marta gave her dates and times of their trysts. Marta is not above lying about this and she is silly enough to not demand Fernando's love child get her rightful inheritance and continue working there taking Lil's guff. But truth is, I think Marta isn't sure who the baby daddy is herself so just buried herself in denial all these years. I'm guessing (wildly without a speck of evidence) that Marcos found out about the affair, forgave Marta, and told her he accepted Lu as his and let's not ever bring it up again.
I agree with everybody who predicts those digs about Lu and Marta not being real family will explode in Lil's and DisGrace’s faces. Lu should start a catfight with DisGrace, grab some bleached strands, and get a DNA test match.
Juan by far the best character in the show. The well timed taunts, smirks and maniacal laugh keep me highly entertained.
Tofie, ITA. Juan is the only character that kept me awake last night.
As the cuckolded one, Lil is in no position to know if Luciana is Fernando's. It's not like he and Marta gave her dates and times of their trysts. Marta is not above lying about this and she is silly enough to not demand Fernando's love child get her rightful inheritance and continue working there taking Lil's guff. But truth is, I think Marta isn't sure who the baby daddy is herself so just buried herself in denial all these years. I'm guessing (wildly without a speck of evidence) that Marcos found out about the affair, forgave Marta, and told her he accepted Lu as his and let's not ever bring it up again.
I agree with everybody who predicts those digs about Lu and Marta not being real family will explode in Lil's and DisGrace’s faces. Lu should start a catfight with DisGrace, grab some bleached strands, and get a DNA test match.
Attention Lila !!! If you are reading these comments at your work conference , DO NOT LAUGH..., giggle, chuckle, grin, or smirk. They will think that you might be amused , and nobody likes seeing anyone having fun at a work conference. Remember..It is all about work, work, work. Be serious for goodness sakes. ;-)
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 10:41:00 AM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 10:41:00 AM EDT
Ok. Let's say Marta had two young children, Marcos worked all the time and Fernando came around and they slipped away to San Francisco. Who watched the kids?
Urban...Yes, Juan's art work is a little weird. Perhaps, they are gifts from DisGracie from her creepy period.
Every time Soosan and FinallySeizedher visit Miguel and Erika in the multipurpose room, I send them a mental message , "Don't sit on that sofa."
Every time Soosan and FinallySeizedher visit Miguel and Erika in the multipurpose room, I send them a mental message , "Don't sit on that sofa."
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 10:48:00 AM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 10:48:00 AM EDT
I'm not even sure at this point, UA. It's that much of a mess.
That said, Show having Marta and Lilian separately declare that Luciana and Graciela couldn't be sisters...my initial thought upon seeing that was that it was the show swerving away from the mother of all novela clichés, but I can't help thinking that it could just as easily have been a feint. (Albeit, this late in the show...if it was a feint, they'd have to revisit it pretty much immediately. And, since it would also mean that Lilian and Marta would have had to agree on something...yeah, that's a stumbling block the size of a water tank, though this might well be the one and only thing they could agree on. Ever.)
It all does highlight the show's gonzo temporal mechanics, though, as you noted above. And it sort of makes it worse. If both of Marta's kids had been born before she ever met Fernando, was the vineyard even in place then? This had to have been only a few years tops after David, Lisa, Juan and Graciela were all in school together and probably a couple of years before Fernanda was born. And since the show's gone out of its way to avoid any serious mentions of exact elapsed time from the get-go...the mind reels.
That said, Show having Marta and Lilian separately declare that Luciana and Graciela couldn't be sisters...my initial thought upon seeing that was that it was the show swerving away from the mother of all novela clichés, but I can't help thinking that it could just as easily have been a feint. (Albeit, this late in the show...if it was a feint, they'd have to revisit it pretty much immediately. And, since it would also mean that Lilian and Marta would have had to agree on something...yeah, that's a stumbling block the size of a water tank, though this might well be the one and only thing they could agree on. Ever.)
It all does highlight the show's gonzo temporal mechanics, though, as you noted above. And it sort of makes it worse. If both of Marta's kids had been born before she ever met Fernando, was the vineyard even in place then? This had to have been only a few years tops after David, Lisa, Juan and Graciela were all in school together and probably a couple of years before Fernanda was born. And since the show's gone out of its way to avoid any serious mentions of exact elapsed time from the get-go...the mind reels.
And LiLa, if you are being clever and reading it on your phone in a stall, BE QUIET.
Nobody will believe you if anyone else is in the ladies room also.
Nobody will believe you if anyone else is in the ladies room also.
Thanks, Urban! Wow, that was a dirty trick, teasing us with Luci's paternity like that. They were messing with us! I'm still not convinced we've heard the whole story. Thanks for covering all that was said... there was plenty of it.
Yes, the art on Juan's walls is creepy! And so is Juan. When Disgrace slapped him, I saw another flash of The Joker on his face.
Notice how Lilian is getting as much mileage out of this ancient affair as she can? She claims that it's "humiliating," but she doesn't stop talking about it.
And the party? What a waste of a party. Not one single brawl.
And Luci & Leon's anger at Marta has already blown over. That was quick.
Disgrace taking charge of the children: So much for kicking her out of the house.
Good for Susan, though I'm sure Mark's not finished with her yet.
Fernanda, still a brat.
"They couldn't report this to the police because Juan now owned the olive grove." Yeah, right. Police have gotten reports from people at the McDonald's drive-thru who were upset that they couldn't order something they wanted. I don't think the police would mind hearing about this.
I'm confused as to why Grace thought that her mother preferred Lisa because Luci might be their half-sister. Whuh?
Kirby: "this does not mesh with the issues of Lil's showers and requests of water conservation in the mansion, as potable water for the house is probably not coming out of the irrigation water from the river." I think what was happening there is that David and Ramon decided to temporarily use the household water supply (sparingly) in the vineyard until they could find a proper solution. That would be crazy-expensive but there would be no other option.
I knew Luci would be on the next bus to Santa Barbara (vineyard) as soon as she had an excuse, but asking MIGUEL was ridiculous... does Dave even know she's over there? I suppose Luci figures she can say that she's trying to appeal to Miguel as a friend to allow this as a personal favor, out of loyalty to David and yadda yadda yadda, but it's just ludicrous and I hope someone calls her out on it.
Yes, the art on Juan's walls is creepy! And so is Juan. When Disgrace slapped him, I saw another flash of The Joker on his face.
Notice how Lilian is getting as much mileage out of this ancient affair as she can? She claims that it's "humiliating," but she doesn't stop talking about it.
And the party? What a waste of a party. Not one single brawl.
And Luci & Leon's anger at Marta has already blown over. That was quick.
Disgrace taking charge of the children: So much for kicking her out of the house.
Good for Susan, though I'm sure Mark's not finished with her yet.
Fernanda, still a brat.
"They couldn't report this to the police because Juan now owned the olive grove." Yeah, right. Police have gotten reports from people at the McDonald's drive-thru who were upset that they couldn't order something they wanted. I don't think the police would mind hearing about this.
I'm confused as to why Grace thought that her mother preferred Lisa because Luci might be their half-sister. Whuh?
Kirby: "this does not mesh with the issues of Lil's showers and requests of water conservation in the mansion, as potable water for the house is probably not coming out of the irrigation water from the river." I think what was happening there is that David and Ramon decided to temporarily use the household water supply (sparingly) in the vineyard until they could find a proper solution. That would be crazy-expensive but there would be no other option.
I knew Luci would be on the next bus to Santa Barbara (vineyard) as soon as she had an excuse, but asking MIGUEL was ridiculous... does Dave even know she's over there? I suppose Luci figures she can say that she's trying to appeal to Miguel as a friend to allow this as a personal favor, out of loyalty to David and yadda yadda yadda, but it's just ludicrous and I hope someone calls her out on it.
Luciana was looking for a reason to cry on Miguel's shoulder and she knows he'll bite. He'll act put upon but she'll let him know there's no relationship with David and she's there for professional reasons. Miguel gets to act like he's the man in charge and Luciana picked the wrong guy. Small detail Miguel forgets is he's got a job because of Erika and if she dumps him, dude has nothing.
This whole discussion (and several recent others) highlights my assertion that when writers create this sort of stuff that happened before the curtain goes up they shouldn't be making it up as they go along. But this isn't the first time and it won't be the last.
The way Lillian goes on and on about the affair she would have had to have spent significant time contemplating whether a child could have resulted from it (Many cuckolded women do that, even to this extent). Maybe Fernando was smart enough to use condoms or Marta has/had an IUD. Marta has spent ages with the secret, which Marcos died without discovering. That might explain why she didn't make more of an effort to reunite with him, although returning to Mexico before being a legal US resident would have meant she couldn't re-enter the US for ten years. She has no reason to lie about this now unless she is seriously afraid of Luciana rejecting her again.
There is nothing to prevent Luciana or DisGracie from demanding a DNA test, either. However, while Luciana is practical-minded and able to deal with it, DisGrace would go off the deep end either way. I think Lillian knows that, too.
We've been mentioning the "art" in Juan's apartment. It points to a deep hatred of women, since their faces are semi-erased in those large-format posters on his walls. I could see him using this Povichism to distract DisGracie and rock those short-circuited neurons from remembering that he has something real to hold over her head. He has Lisa's cell phone, which could carry evidence of the murder. DisGracie doesn't know that. Perla has seen that phone and could end up being the one who uncovers this secret despite that she has no current motive for disclosing it.
The way Lillian goes on and on about the affair she would have had to have spent significant time contemplating whether a child could have resulted from it (Many cuckolded women do that, even to this extent). Maybe Fernando was smart enough to use condoms or Marta has/had an IUD. Marta has spent ages with the secret, which Marcos died without discovering. That might explain why she didn't make more of an effort to reunite with him, although returning to Mexico before being a legal US resident would have meant she couldn't re-enter the US for ten years. She has no reason to lie about this now unless she is seriously afraid of Luciana rejecting her again.
There is nothing to prevent Luciana or DisGracie from demanding a DNA test, either. However, while Luciana is practical-minded and able to deal with it, DisGrace would go off the deep end either way. I think Lillian knows that, too.
We've been mentioning the "art" in Juan's apartment. It points to a deep hatred of women, since their faces are semi-erased in those large-format posters on his walls. I could see him using this Povichism to distract DisGracie and rock those short-circuited neurons from remembering that he has something real to hold over her head. He has Lisa's cell phone, which could carry evidence of the murder. DisGracie doesn't know that. Perla has seen that phone and could end up being the one who uncovers this secret despite that she has no current motive for disclosing it.
"Ancient affair" ...wow, Julie, you should get an award for those bon mots. It is exactly that ..an ancient affair, but the matrons of misery will just not stop beating that poor dead horse. Geez, Lilian, let it go already.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 11:36:00 AM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 11:36:00 AM EDT
When the episode ended (almost ended) with Luci asking Miguel about the pipes I thought it was a pretty lame cliffhanger, but ever since then I've been thinking about all the different ways it could go wrong.
And I hope David isn't tempted by Disgrace's offer of financial support. She ought to be running out of money soon.
And I hope David isn't tempted by Disgrace's offer of financial support. She ought to be running out of money soon.
And that's another thing that bugs me, the tendency to almost never quantify the cost of anything or the amount of people's assets.
Both DisGracie and Lillian put their eggs in the wrong baskets. There is nothing shameful in working.
Both DisGracie and Lillian put their eggs in the wrong baskets. There is nothing shameful in working.
It's lame because we know the real reason Luciana didn't tell David and wanted to speak to Miguel in private. She wants Miguel to humiliate Erika.
What she could have done is tell David and he speak with Lilian and she convince Alfonso to allow an easement. Fixed.
What she could have done is tell David and he speak with Lilian and she convince Alfonso to allow an easement. Fixed.
And when Luci kicked Erika out of her own Multipurpose Room to talk to Miggs :::
A. WHY? she had nothing of a personal or secretive nature to talk to Miggy about.
B. AND, it is Erika she should have been asking about the 'pipes' anyway.
It is like the spark plug changer down at the Honda place asking the tire balancer guy what color he wants my car painted.
A. WHY? she had nothing of a personal or secretive nature to talk to Miggy about.
B. AND, it is Erika she should have been asking about the 'pipes' anyway.
It is like the spark plug changer down at the Honda place asking the tire balancer guy what color he wants my car painted.
It would never play that way. David will either want to fix this himself or with Luciana's help. It would be better if David spoke directly to Adolfo and left
Lillian out of this..
You want to see Luciana as mean-spirited. She isn't that. The only mean that is in her is when people she cares about are threatened.
Erika is insecure. How much of this is a perceived threat from Luciana or from her medical condition we don't know. I don't think she has ever said anything about her past dating life, but asthma can be scary to those unfamiliar with it.
Lillian out of this..
You want to see Luciana as mean-spirited. She isn't that. The only mean that is in her is when people she cares about are threatened.
Erika is insecure. How much of this is a perceived threat from Luciana or from her medical condition we don't know. I don't think she has ever said anything about her past dating life, but asthma can be scary to those unfamiliar with it.
No typo; tofie suggested that David have Lilian speak to Adolfo. Which makes sense if David thinks Adolfo would be more receptive if his "girlfriend" did the asking.
In don't believe Luci is 'mean spirited' if what we have been treated to here is a refresher course in the meaning. BUT she is abrasive and direct to a fault. She appears to believe she deserves her cake and someone else's and eat BOTH cakes, or is just a corn-fuzed little gal.
Given how easily Soo-San was abused by SkidMark, you have to admire Luci's independence and fearless confrontations, but it can backfire just as easily.
Given how easily Soo-San was abused by SkidMark, you have to admire Luci's independence and fearless confrontations, but it can backfire just as easily.
And given that Lil is out on the town and doing charity things with "her" new sheriff, Adolfo can't help but smell something, or he is like Dave, dumber than a box-O-rocks.
As for Luci being mean-spirited - I don't see it that way. I don't think she wants Mig to humiliate Erika. What I'm less sure of is exactly what she does want from Miguel.
I really saw no evidence that she was trying to get Mig back on the hook - but it is extremely irregular for an employee of one place to ask an employee of another place for the kind of favor that should be negotiated between owners. Unless she's profoundly ignorant of how these things work, her motivation is questionable.
My gut instinct is that she misses him and wants to see him whenever she can, regardless of whether it's a good idea and even though she has no intentions towards him. Which is selfish and will only confuse him, even if it's without malice.
I really saw no evidence that she was trying to get Mig back on the hook - but it is extremely irregular for an employee of one place to ask an employee of another place for the kind of favor that should be negotiated between owners. Unless she's profoundly ignorant of how these things work, her motivation is questionable.
My gut instinct is that she misses him and wants to see him whenever she can, regardless of whether it's a good idea and even though she has no intentions towards him. Which is selfish and will only confuse him, even if it's without malice.
Univision appears to be taking random clips now and showing them as the ending credits previews Without giving away anything, I have seen a couple things days ago which have not happened yet and did not happen earlier either.
At best Luciana is a coward not asking Erika directly. This is not Miguel's property and the only reason she is asking him is to leverage how Erika feels about Miguel to influence a yes, knowing full well Luciana is her romantic rival. Recently single Luciana is leveraging her relationship with Miguel to force Erika to make this decision. But I guess Luciana could be stupid and it never occur to her how inappropriate this is.
Weird (about the random clips). Usually that doesn't happen until ultimos capitulos. I know for sure that nothing in the avances caught my eye last night.
I don't get avances so I tend to ignore closing credits unless I'm looking for music info, which isn't always there.
Some people aren't aware that there are people who don't like to be friend-zoned and that for those people that is a complete dead end. In Luciana's case I chalk that up to inexperience. And she also might be ignorant of corporate politics for a similar reason.
Some people aren't aware that there are people who don't like to be friend-zoned and that for those people that is a complete dead end. In Luciana's case I chalk that up to inexperience. And she also might be ignorant of corporate politics for a similar reason.
A que no puedes!
OK, Graciela would you rather be Luci's sister
OR have cooties and a STD?
Final Answer? Yes
OK, hey cootie guy, over here !
OK, Graciela would you rather be Luci's sister
OR have cooties and a STD?
Final Answer? Yes
OK, hey cootie guy, over here !
Julie, I don't believe Luci wanted to hurt Erica either. I'd go so far as to say that I don't think she is really even thinking about Erica now. She wants to fix things and Miguel seemed the likely place to start.
UA, I also don't think her lack of following the chain of command was intentional. She just isn't aware of it, through lack of inexperience.
Agree Kirby she isn't "mean spirited" but I (gently) don't agree she is abrasive. Determined, prone not to think things through, keeping her options open - yes, to all of these.
Diana
UA, I also don't think her lack of following the chain of command was intentional. She just isn't aware of it, through lack of inexperience.
Agree Kirby she isn't "mean spirited" but I (gently) don't agree she is abrasive. Determined, prone not to think things through, keeping her options open - yes, to all of these.
Diana
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 3:09:00 PM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 3:09:00 PM EDT
I've noticed that Sonia is much better with the kids now, now that she's just being herself instead of trying to impress them to get closer to David.
I think that Luci is just clueless. JMHO . It seems as though she did not date or have novios while she was living with Marcos in Mexico. Perhaps Marcos was a very strict father and did not allow her to date. She seems inexperienced with relationships with other people. Miguel is one of the few people whom Luci seems to be able to relate to .
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 3:15:00 PM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 3:15:00 PM EDT
Diana..In a word, Luci is very young and is trying to find her path in life which often involves lots of twists and turns and mistakes.
I am nervous about Mark. The smack Soosan gave him is going to set him off. I like the way Seizedher had his hand on Susy's shoulder when they were sitting on that sofa(bed). . He looked like a happily married hombre. I hope that Marked does not go after Soosy or Seizeher , but I am afraid that he will. I hate looking at his smug face. Jackass.
I am nervous about Mark. The smack Soosan gave him is going to set him off. I like the way Seizedher had his hand on Susy's shoulder when they were sitting on that sofa(bed). . He looked like a happily married hombre. I hope that Marked does not go after Soosy or Seizeher , but I am afraid that he will. I hate looking at his smug face. Jackass.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 3:39:00 PM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 3:39:00 PM EDT
I'm sure Mark isn't finished with Soo-san. If he comes back for her, I hope she's ready for him. For that matter, I hope Seizer is ready too. Their most recent "meetings" have been in public places. They will be much worse if he gets her alone.
Dr Seizeher needs a loaded hypodermic in his shirt pocket at all times. Fight with what you are good at.
And if Dr Seizher doesn't have SooSan packing a jumbo spray of Bear-Guard he is dropping the ball. She needs that and needs to be practiced in using and aiming it. It could very possibly save her life and needs to be in the purse at all times.
Ooops I forgot, this is a TN. Mark will kidnap her helpless ass and mix her in with the illegals, until he can ship her to a brothel inYugoslavia,
Ooops I forgot, this is a TN. Mark will kidnap her helpless ass and mix her in with the illegals, until he can ship her to a brothel inYugoslavia,
I used to carry a sample-size can of Aqua-Net in my purse. I found out the hard way that it stings like a SOB if you get it in your eyes.
What is your picture, Kirby? It's too small to make out.
What is your picture, Kirby? It's too small to make out.
Thank you very much UA! Loved all the translated conversation, you did a spectacular job!
I haven’t had time to read all the comments yet as I’ve been busy at work all day with NO BREAKS (except for lunch, but I ate instead of looking at my computer) and I’m sneaking a peek now. I’m under a deadline here and I have to meet it on Thursday night.
Anyway, I am puzzled at how both Marta and Lilian dodged their daughter’s questions about them being sisters. Instead of Marta saying,”What? Of course not! I didn’t even meet Fernando till after we moved to the USA and you and Leon were already born.” No but she and Lil go through this dodging here and there and “why do you ask” kind of thing and dance around the subject till they could finally give an answer. It was like “Who wants to be a millionaire?” and they both needed a lifeline in order to come up with an answer.
As for Mark, I think he is going to pull something he can’t get out of soon and get caught red handed. Maybe he will go back to jail and stay there. Susan did the right thing standing up to him. Bullies can’t take someone standing up to them.
I haven’t had time to read all the comments yet as I’ve been busy at work all day with NO BREAKS (except for lunch, but I ate instead of looking at my computer) and I’m sneaking a peek now. I’m under a deadline here and I have to meet it on Thursday night.
Anyway, I am puzzled at how both Marta and Lilian dodged their daughter’s questions about them being sisters. Instead of Marta saying,”What? Of course not! I didn’t even meet Fernando till after we moved to the USA and you and Leon were already born.” No but she and Lil go through this dodging here and there and “why do you ask” kind of thing and dance around the subject till they could finally give an answer. It was like “Who wants to be a millionaire?” and they both needed a lifeline in order to come up with an answer.
As for Mark, I think he is going to pull something he can’t get out of soon and get caught red handed. Maybe he will go back to jail and stay there. Susan did the right thing standing up to him. Bullies can’t take someone standing up to them.
I agree, Cynthia - Marta and Lil did not handle the question well. That's why I think there's still more to the story - though it's just as likely that it was done this way (dragged out) for dramatic effect.
Cynthia..deadlines always interfere with our telenovelas #rude I have a pile of reading tests to correct, and I must make myself do that some time tonight.
Julie...weapon of choice..hairspray..excellent tip
Kirby, you are a problem solver, mi amigo. You can tell that you are an engineer.
Julie...weapon of choice..hairspray..excellent tip
Kirby, you are a problem solver, mi amigo. You can tell that you are an engineer.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 4:51:00 PM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 4:51:00 PM EDT
Kirby, is that a bird in a nest? An eagle?
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 4:52:00 PM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 4:52:00 PM EDT
It is a Bald Eaqle I was photographing and I got too close to the nest.
It fluffed itself up to look bigger and was yelling at me. It had chicks and was really protective
It fluffed itself up to look bigger and was yelling at me. It had chicks and was really protective
Whatever the writers have decided to make of this, I'm sure this is meant to drag it out for dramatic effect.
If they turn out not to be sisters then it was Juan messing with their heads, which is what DisGracie deserves considering what she is doing to Fernanda. Luciana can handle this. She may be somewhat naive about certain things but she is psychologically healthy from having had a loving father. She may be more forthright than is socially appropriate at times, but she doesn't sit on things like this forever.
It isn't particularly unusual for women in Lillian's position to bitch and moan about this for longer than is healthy. A friend of mine obsessed about an infidelity for ten years after the divorce. She kept on wondering what in hell was wrong with her that her marriage was ended and what was so attractive about the "other woman" (whom she not only never met but didn't know her name). After the third time I heard her say this I started saying that this speculation would do no good as she had no way of learning the answers.
If they turn out not to be sisters then it was Juan messing with their heads, which is what DisGracie deserves considering what she is doing to Fernanda. Luciana can handle this. She may be somewhat naive about certain things but she is psychologically healthy from having had a loving father. She may be more forthright than is socially appropriate at times, but she doesn't sit on things like this forever.
It isn't particularly unusual for women in Lillian's position to bitch and moan about this for longer than is healthy. A friend of mine obsessed about an infidelity for ten years after the divorce. She kept on wondering what in hell was wrong with her that her marriage was ended and what was so attractive about the "other woman" (whom she not only never met but didn't know her name). After the third time I heard her say this I started saying that this speculation would do no good as she had no way of learning the answers.
Oh yeah! An eagle. I see it now.
I confess, I really wanted Luci and Disgrace to be related. The timeline would seem to rule that out, but if the mothers were being evasive for some reason besides dramatic effect, there are still ways that it could work. Like Marta could have had two affairs with Fernando - one in Mexico during the before-time (maybe even before Marcos), and again in Sonoma when they were coincidentally (?) reunited.
Farfetched? Yes. Fun? Maybe!
I confess, I really wanted Luci and Disgrace to be related. The timeline would seem to rule that out, but if the mothers were being evasive for some reason besides dramatic effect, there are still ways that it could work. Like Marta could have had two affairs with Fernando - one in Mexico during the before-time (maybe even before Marcos), and again in Sonoma when they were coincidentally (?) reunited.
Farfetched? Yes. Fun? Maybe!
Urban, this was a fact finding episode
That"he is not your baby daddy"mystery is solved. As if somebody want crazy for a sister. Lisa can testify to that
O She can't, cuz baby sis cracked her scull with a rock dowwwn by the river.
Lucy you my dear dodged a bullet.
Speaking of that river, couldn't they
Get water from there? Or is it on juan's property? O david, you're in a pickle darlin. And Lucy went to ask
Ericka, wow. I really want see how that turns out tonight.
Fer is so selfish. Tano is workin and tryin to help her dad save hers and Bobby's inheritance,and she cant think about nothing but her selfish butt. She need to go get a job and stop being a pain in the Butt. Never mind he's workin, "granny Could you send for tano?" And stupid granny does it. knowing she don't even like her grandkids.
So glad susyQ grew a pair and put markoff In his place. And shes willin to give "Hale cesar" a chance at love. Im glad To see some action happening This tn. Cuz for a long time it was sleepy Town. But Gabriel looks like this in all the tns he's in. He needs to get back with Lucy so he can smile again.
Thank you Urban, this was yummy:)
That"he is not your baby daddy"mystery is solved. As if somebody want crazy for a sister. Lisa can testify to that
O She can't, cuz baby sis cracked her scull with a rock dowwwn by the river.
Lucy you my dear dodged a bullet.
Speaking of that river, couldn't they
Get water from there? Or is it on juan's property? O david, you're in a pickle darlin. And Lucy went to ask
Ericka, wow. I really want see how that turns out tonight.
Fer is so selfish. Tano is workin and tryin to help her dad save hers and Bobby's inheritance,and she cant think about nothing but her selfish butt. She need to go get a job and stop being a pain in the Butt. Never mind he's workin, "granny Could you send for tano?" And stupid granny does it. knowing she don't even like her grandkids.
So glad susyQ grew a pair and put markoff In his place. And shes willin to give "Hale cesar" a chance at love. Im glad To see some action happening This tn. Cuz for a long time it was sleepy Town. But Gabriel looks like this in all the tns he's in. He needs to get back with Lucy so he can smile again.
Thank you Urban, this was yummy:)
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 5:34:00 PM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 5:34:00 PM EDT
Urban, my friend is the exact opposite. Her husband was a good looking, funny guy who cheated on her with a steady girlfriend . She finally divorced him when their kids were teens. I have never heard her say one bad word about him or her. He finally married the girl friend last year. On the other hand, our mutual friend and I cannot stand him. The last time I saw him was years ago shortly after the divorce. He gave me a compliment, and I blurted out , "Now, let me think of something nice to say about you." #sorrynotsorry
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 5:37:00 PM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 5:37:00 PM EDT
For a while there lil did seem alittle
Unsure. I don't think the timeline would have allowed that either. But that would have been a major bomb. And Especially for ferbrat, "auntee lucy".
Bobby would have loved it.cutypie.
Unsure. I don't think the timeline would have allowed that either. But that would have been a major bomb. And Especially for ferbrat, "auntee lucy".
Bobby would have loved it.cutypie.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 5:39:00 PM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 5:39:00 PM EDT
Does anyone know someone in real life who married a sibling of his or her spouse? I guess it happened in the past.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 5:43:00 PM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 5:43:00 PM EDT
Nina, the deal with the river is that they can use it, but the pipes have to go through either Juan's place (the Olive Garden) or Alfonso/Erika's place. Apparently, the river isn't immediately adjacent to David's land (or maybe he just isn't able to access it from there).
Actually, I have the impression that the pipes could go around, but that's too long/expensive and it would be much better to take a shortcut through the neighbor's property.
Actually, I have the impression that the pipes could go around, but that's too long/expensive and it would be much better to take a shortcut through the neighbor's property.
The key to the timeline is the age difference between Leon and FerBrat. He is 22 or 23 while FerBrat just turned 18. The affair could have taken place in Mexico say, a year after Leon was born, ended not long thereafter, and the Munoz family went north when Leon was between 4 and 5.
The writers could push this either way as to whether there was anything leading up to Luciana's conception.
The writers could push this either way as to whether there was anything leading up to Luciana's conception.
Susanlynn: I don't want to mention politics... but I'll mention someone's name... Beau Biden's widow is now dating Beaus's brother Hunter.
I'll bet there are better examples of in-law relationships, but that one's fairly recent.
I tried googling for more examples and didn't find any (didn't try very hard), but I did find this: Bill Wyman's mother-in-law married Bill Wyman's son. EW! (Wyman's wife was 18; his son was 31. That would have been weird enough if it had just been those two getting together.)
I'll bet there are better examples of in-law relationships, but that one's fairly recent.
I tried googling for more examples and didn't find any (didn't try very hard), but I did find this: Bill Wyman's mother-in-law married Bill Wyman's son. EW! (Wyman's wife was 18; his son was 31. That would have been weird enough if it had just been those two getting together.)
Woman married soninlaws child (Wyman) OK given those ages
the son had no blood relation, IE Father's second wife's Mom married first wife son
the son had no blood relation, IE Father's second wife's Mom married first wife son
Urban--before the evening comes down and the next episode goes up--thank you for the recap. It's everything it ought to be and more.
All I can say about the "Big Reveal," is QQQue? After the build up we got in the avances, we should have known it was all a set up. Whoever called it, way, way, back, got it right. Marta and Marcos' children were born in Mexico and came with them. Marta says she didn't "meet" Fernando until after they were here. Of course, the two women involved could BOTH still be lying. A child born to one and attributed to another would be an even greater scandal to overcome. So, we're not through yet with the "birther" conspiracy.
Otherwise, why would Lil every have told Gus that her husband had a child with another woman. Maybe it's Erika!!!! Unless, we're back to it again, she was lying to make her look like a bigger victim to Gus than she really is.
All I can say about the "Big Reveal," is QQQue? After the build up we got in the avances, we should have known it was all a set up. Whoever called it, way, way, back, got it right. Marta and Marcos' children were born in Mexico and came with them. Marta says she didn't "meet" Fernando until after they were here. Of course, the two women involved could BOTH still be lying. A child born to one and attributed to another would be an even greater scandal to overcome. So, we're not through yet with the "birther" conspiracy.
Otherwise, why would Lil every have told Gus that her husband had a child with another woman. Maybe it's Erika!!!! Unless, we're back to it again, she was lying to make her look like a bigger victim to Gus than she really is.
Actually, Anita, Erika does look more like a sister for Luciana, but...
Why did Adolfo's wife go back to Spain? Hmmm...
Why did Adolfo's wife go back to Spain? Hmmm...
Julie..oh yeah, I forgot about the example you gave. It was hot news here for awhile.the second example is pretty odd.
So, if the river does not border the vineyard property, Lisa and Disgrace were on the neighbor's property when they had that rumble at the river.
Lila...Lila...are you there? Are you lurking? Can you comment or are you keeping a low, "I am working" profile?
So, if the river does not border the vineyard property, Lisa and Disgrace were on the neighbor's property when they had that rumble at the river.
Lila...Lila...are you there? Are you lurking? Can you comment or are you keeping a low, "I am working" profile?
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 7:12:00 PM EDT
: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 at 7:12:00 PM EDT
Sue there is probably a public easement to provide access to the river. That is uncommon, but the only reasonable explanation I can come up with. I wouldn't have thought it would be "Hey let's run over to Ballestero's or over to Mr Kent's and play in the river."
I assume we are not supposed to think about this, but it is really hard (writers?) not to.
There are a gadzillion other things. Where is the pump, on David's land, or at the intake end? If there who supplies power? David's land is much higher elevation than the river it looks like, so it needs to be at the river. Did they check that first?
He needed an engineer to tell him someJuan cut the pipes? I hope he never buys a boat. !
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I assume we are not supposed to think about this, but it is really hard (writers?) not to.
There are a gadzillion other things. Where is the pump, on David's land, or at the intake end? If there who supplies power? David's land is much higher elevation than the river it looks like, so it needs to be at the river. Did they check that first?
He needed an engineer to tell him someJuan cut the pipes? I hope he never buys a boat. !
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