Thursday, April 20, 2017

Vino el Amor #129; Wednesday April 19, 2017: The Bad, the Ugly, and it just gets Worse!

We begin where we left off yesterday, with DisGrace and David telling the family that they are now engaged to be married as they are so in love (according to DisGrace).

Still at dinner in the restaurant where David proposed to DisGrace, Miguel and Adolfo talk winery business, Adolfo asks for Lu’s opinion, but Luciana is not listening to their conversation. Of course Lu is depressed and thinking about what just happened with David and his engagement to DisGrace. Adolfo in a fatherly way is very understanding and tells her she really needs some relief from all this and it’s just better that they just all leave the restaurant. Adolfo says, “You don’t know how badly it hurts me to see you suffering. Now why don’t you finish what you were eating and you’ll feel better soon.”

Juan comes home and wants to know what happened with Carito. Perla tells him Carito refused to help out and is going to go to the police. Juan gets very angry and says that Carito is a traitor and must pay for it! He can’t trust either Carito or Perla. He abusively tells Perla that she and Carito are good for nothing and Perla cries. Juan says, “I’m not going to lose everything on account of the both of you!”

Carito continues to tell Marta about her problems. Carito says she needs to talk to Gutierrez and Marta comforts her. Marta calls Gutierrez and he agrees to come over. Marta assures Carito that after she talks to the Sheriff, everything will turn out fine. Gutierrez arrives at the employees’ house, Marta goes upstairs and Carito tells Brian the whole story about the human trafficked immigrants. He asks if she is willing to testify in court and she says yes. She also tells him that Juan is responsible for the wine sabotage, the human trafficking, and was an accomplice with El Coyote’s murder.

Carito says she is very afraid of what will happen, but Brian offers her “amnesty”. (I think he means IMMUNITY from prosecution. These writers do not know their legal mumbo jumbo. They need to tune into Investigation Discovery or something.) He promises to protect her and tells her she needs to go to the station to give her statement. Carito also asks that Perla not be held responsible as Juan has her under threat as well. They get ready to go and Carito asks that Marta go with them.

Perla tries to call Carito but she will not answer her phone. In the meantime, Juan calls his thug buddies and puts out a hit on Carito, sending her picture to the hitmen. Then a worried Perla tells Juan and says she has packed their bags so that they can go on the run. Juan says, “That wasn’t necessary. Everything is going to be fine. I made a few calls and everything will be fine, I promise.” Perla is not believing Juan and tells him, “What did you do, why are you so calm? I know you Juan, and I want to know what you did!” He claims he just bought some more time. (ha!) Perla just looks at him and doesn’t believe him but Juan has another story about how he is going to blame Mark.

In the vineyard, Susan is trying to get David’s attention but he’s not paying attention. Finally he turns around and Susan says she needs him to go over some files she has ready for him. Of course David is far away in his thoughts and says he will see them later. He tells her that he thinks she is doing a good job. But Susan says that she is glad that he has faith in her, but everything is a lot harder and a lot more work without Luciana. Susan tells him, “I think you made a terrible mistake in letter Luciana go.” But Dave says, “Well it’s better this way, so she won’t have to go through all the things that will be coming up soon.” Sue says, “Whatever do you mean by that?” Dave then gives her the news, “I’ve decided to marry Gracie.” She looks at him with a combination of disbelief and disgust.

“You can’t do that David”, says Susan. (Sorry, I’m thinking about HAL in 2001 Space Odyssey). Actually she says more like, “I know it’s none of my business about your life and all but I think that Grace is pressuring you to do this.” But Dave says, “You have to respect my decision. I’m doing this for the good of my children.”

Fer and DisGrace talk and Fer tells her how EXCITED she is about her marrying her daddy. Grace tells her it’s a dream come true! Fer tells her finally things are going well for them and shares how she got a scholarship too. She also shares that she has learned what is important in life and she owes it all to her Tía Graciela. Fer tells Grace how well things are going with Tano and Grace says now that she is getting married to her father, everything else will fall into place and go well too. Fer also asks a promise from Grace that she will take good care of Bobby and her dad when she goes to the University.

Fernanda comes to Tano in the distillery and gives him the happy news about her dad and DisGrace. He’s a little surprised to hear the news but for Fer’s sake, he does feign some excitement and happiness. He pretty much says, “Well, if you are happy, I’m happy too.” But the first thing he does after she leaves is run out to the vineyard to find León to tell him.

León is shocked and Tano tells him that he wanted to make sure he knew right away so that he can let Luciana know, since she shouldn’t have to hear it through the grapevine. (Sorry I had to use that metaphor, LOL) León says it is so unfair that all this has happened to his sister.

Cesar goes to see Susan in her office. They hug and Cesar asks what is wrong. She says, “Your friend David is about to make the biggest mistake of his life. And you being his friend have to do something!” She explains that Dave is about to marry DisGrace and Cesar is shocked. He says, “I don’t know what I can do. If he’s already made up his mind it will be hard to change it. Dave tends to be as stubborn as a goat once he’s made up his mind to do something. But I’ll see what I can do when I talk to him.”

Back at the employees’ house, Carito and Marta come downstairs ready to go with Brian. He tells Marta that she can count on him for anything. The three of them get ready to head off to the Sheriff’s station.

León calls Luciana on the phone and tells her the bad news, but she tells him she already knows. She is just tired of it all and feeling horrible and desperate right now. León tries to comfort her saying, “It’s his decision and if he’s making a mistake, then let him deal with his own problems.  But you, if you need to vent and talk to me, I’m here for you. I’ll come see you soon when I’m done with work, I promise.”

Bobby has his bag packed and is ready to go to his fútbol school where DisGrace is talking with him. They talk about how she will “always” be there for him and his dad. “And you and my dad will go to all my games, right?” “Of course, I’ll be here for you. Oh by the way, when we go to Spain, I’ll see you get in to that school too.” Bobby says, “Nope, I don’t want to leave this place.” Grace says, “Oh well, I mean when you are all grown up. One day you will be a star.” She quickly turns around to make an exit with him.

Tano and León talk some more in the distillery about what bad luck Luciana has had recently. León can’t understand why “el patrón” has decided this. Tano thinks it’s because DisGrace got to Bobby and Fernanda. León says that DisGrace just wants to hurt his sister. They both know that David loves Luciana. León adds, “I know that if someone marries someone that they don’t love, they will end up in their own hell. One has to get married for love only. I am so glad that Luciana no longer works here so she doesn’t have to see the upcoming wedding.” León wants to go say something to David and tell him he’s making a big mistake but Tao tells him to stay out of it.

Cesar comes to see Dave in his office. Cesar mentions that he knows that Luciana has gone. Dave says is not going to deny it, he misses Luciana. So Cesar tries to give him advice. Cesar says, “Can you imagine being married already to Grace and feeling how much you miss and desire to be with Luciana?” But Dave says, “In time I will learn to love Graciela and I will forget about Luciana.” Cesar goes on to warn him to really think through this well and that if this doesn’t turn out, divorces are VERY expensive. We see David scratching his beard again…

David explains that Grace is the woman his children need. So Cesar says, “So if Grace is the woman your children need so much, why do you look so agitated?” Dave says, “Because I didn’t like the way Luciana did things with the children. It just wasn’t my way and I feel responsible. But for right now I feel very badly about Luciana.” Cesar advises him to go find Luciana and talk to her about his feelings and talk to her sincerely.

Dave tells Cesar that after he finishes his work, he is going to go talk to Luciana. Cesar also tells him to reconsider his decision about DisGrace. But Dave goes on with the same ol’, “I’m doing this for my children, so we can have a nice and unified family.” Then DisGrace barges in….”Oh did I interrupt?” She says, “Oh since you are David’s best friend, you will be his best man, right?” “Yeah, sure” says Cesar. “Well, I need to go to work now. Later.” DisGrace has some wedding magazines she wants to show David. She asks if he’s excited and he’s like, “oh yeah, so excited.” (NOT). So he tells her that whatever she decides is fine with him.

At the SB vineyard, Luciana walks outside crying. Miguel finds her and tries to advise her about her feelings. He tells her that it is very unfair the way David has treated her. Lu tries to say, “But it’s really all DisGrace’s fault.” Miguel then retorts back, “But you didn’t see her put a gun to David’s head now, did you? This his David’s decision and he is the one responsible for it.” “Well maybe, I don’t know.” says Lu. Mig then says, “Hey, I’m always going to be here for you.” They hug…

Susan calls Lu and she tells Susan that that she’s just throwing herself into the work. Susan tells her she needs to stop suffering on David’s account so much.

Perla made a pie for Juan, his favorite dessert! He asks for her trust again and Perla swears to trust him from now on.

León calls the SB Vineyard and speaks with Miguel about Luciana. Mig promises he will take good care of Luciana during these rough times.

Susan comes to Dave’s office with the files he asked for. He asks, “Have you talked to Luciana?” Susan explains she has and tells Dave not to hurt Luciana anymore.

Gutierrez, Marta, and Carito walk through what I think is the seedy side of Sonoma. (Why they are WALKING to the Sheriff’s office, I do not know.) Brian tells Marta there is something very important he needs to tell her about. Marta says, after the get to the office, he can tell her. Nearby, Juan’s hired henchmen have Carito’s photograph and start following the trio. The hitmen are not afraid of the police and get out their guns.

At Casa Robles, Lilian answers her phone and says something to her friend Gloria as to whether or not she has received her note. (I don’t know what she means, but it sound from the way that Sonia is talking that Lilian has something on him that will ruin his life and career.) Sonia says, “Think about this well. You shouldn’t do this to the sheriff. You can do something irreversible to him.” But Lilian just laughs about this and thinks it’s the perfect excuse to get him to come back to her. (I don’t know what kind of books on toxic relationships she’s been reading lately.) Sonia advises her that love forgives and to give it some time to get close to him. “I’m no expert, but it seems to me that you need to fix things with him and leave your ego behind. Are you going to tell me you don’t love him?” Lil admits that she does. Lil says she will go see him, but it will have to wait because of things she needs to do now since Grace getting married. Sonia is surprised.

The hitmen come up behind Gutierrez, Marta, and Carito. They try to take Carito, but Brian pulls out his gun and shoots. One of the two men fires his gun, hitting Brian. Brian falls down, shoots the other perpetrator. Brian is down and both perps are dead. Marta cradles Brian in her arms while Carito calls for help. Brian keeps spitting blood, but dies before he is able to tell her what he needs to tell her. 


Cynthia, thanks for yet another great recap of the good, the bad, and the ugly....Em...Mostly bad and ugly.

If I hear DAve say, "I am doing this for the good of my children" one more time, I will scccrreeaamm.

Wow... GUt's death scene just went on and on. I had to look away. Awful. Now, what will Carito do , and who is going to bring Juan down? Uff These writers are a disappointment.

I won't be smiling when Lulu rushes back to comfort Dave after Grace is revealed as Lisa's killer. I hope that AFokfo doesn't join her to embrace Lilian..Bblleecchh.

Make it all stop.

Adolfo;-);-);-)sorry..It is early, and I am still half asleep. Have a good day everyone. Yawnnnn.

Smart Recap, Brilliant recapper, S T U P I D show




Entertainment? Nope. More like seeing a pet get hit by a car.



Brilliant implies Thank You, but I forgot to actually type it. I was busy.......................

Thank You for recapping this episode Cynthia. The recapping troops are Saints.

Cynthia: Karma finally struck Gutierrez. The Red Flags & Signs were there in recent weeks.

Kirby: Diva David is STUPID & POS! He's intent on marrying Graciela & I'm looking forward to seeing the look on his face when it's revealed that Graciela whacked Lisa.

FerBrat & Bobby are bigger fools & idiots! They need to be slapped!

Susanlynn: Perla's Karma is coming! Univision likely cut scenes from this episode too from what I can tell.


Yo ! Up here. You lookin for me?

Was time for a new bird to cheer us up

Muchisimas gracias, Cynthia!

Jeezopete! Brian's death scene was long, and graphic and too realistic-looking. No, I haven't seen anyone die whether from natural or provoked causes but did he "finish" dying last night? Not trying to be funny, just wondering if they left him sputtering blood but still hanging on to a few breaths. In the death scene I saw Brian confessed his love to Marta again and told her that it was Lil who told him to deport some people and he had NO IDEA that it was her family. As he is spitting out his life blood, this testifies to his veracity. Anyway, she forgives him and also declares that she loves him and she kisses his bloody face and he tells her he loves her with his last breath and she keeps repeating the same, WAILING for him not to die and that she loves him.

Did they leave that out? If they did, they are unforgivable hacks! This is NO criticism of the recap, just wondering if they made Brian's death into a cliff hanger and if they didn't, why did they leave out Brian FINALLY outing Lil as the orchestrator of the deportation?

In other news. . . .

León is shocked and Tano tells him that he wanted to make sure he knew right away so that he can let Luciana know, since she shouldn’t have to hear it through the grapevine. (Sorry I had to use that metaphor, LOL)

YAAAY! Cynthia, you HAD to use that metaphor and thank you! Love it!

“Your friend David is about to make the biggest mistake of his life. And you being his friend have to do something!”

NO, he's a grown-assed man and this is the problem with the whole story" we're supposed to believe this is Vino el Amor when it's Vino el Brain-dead, spineless "galan" who let his children run his "love" life while the woman who ran his business gets run off the joint and pines away pitifully for his useless ass!

“Because I didn’t like the way Luciana did things with the children. . . WTF is he TALKING about?

Here's another example of these writer's sick, twisted idea of what love is or at least the kind of love they think viewers want to see:

You shouldn’t do this to the sheriff. You can do something irreversible to him.” But Lilian just laughs about this and thinks it’s the perfect excuse to get him to come back to her. . .Are you going to tell me you don’t love him?” Lil admits that she does.

WHAT?? Okay, with this demonstrated definition of what love is, Lil MUST have killed Fernando!

One last thing, for now:

Marta declared her love to a dying Brian. She DOES NOT love Ramon and I wish he could have witnessed this "touching" scene!

The greatest "love" story in this effed up novela is that between Lil and Marta -- they have only loved men that the other "loved" and shagged, now both of those middle men are dead. Just cut to the chase, heffas!

Thank you Cynthia!


I shot the Sheriff.....But I didn't shoot no deputy..................

Steve. Will Perla of Juan brain cell figure out that NoJuan had the Sheriff whacked in his botched attempt to kill her only friend on planet earth, Darito? Of course NoBalls NoJuan would not try something like that himself, because he doesn't even know how to shoot a gun. When he had just bought his little plastic toy Glock (looked like) Perla asked him how he thought he would use it, as he did not know how, and he said he would take a class.

Yup. David needs a wake up call. Trampled by elephants, Bitten by King Cobra, Epicenter of earthquake, participant of 50 car pileup on the interstate, MARRY DISGRACE. There is your answer. He will one day be Wide Assed Awake, much to his chagrin.

If I took my car to a dealership on the par of this S T U P I D show to be repaired, I'd be leaving on a unicycle with a flat tire.

Gracias, Cynthia.

I was under the impression that Brian was still alive at the end of this episode, but barely. He should have told Marta about Lillian's role in this long ago when he found his conscience. He especially should have done so as soon as Luciana came back. This is something Marta should absolutely know.

Is David ever going to remember those boarding school brochures that Bobby found in DisGrace's room?

More later. I will need breakfast before getting back to my last recap for MdN.

LiLaaa ! Thanks. I didn't see the deportation confession, so I am glad he did. This should make for a friggin hoppy reunion when Marta gets back to the house and chats with Lillian the SHREW about their common law boyfriends.

Hoppy in that I predict Marta will do the first useful thing in her miserable life and HOP on top of Lillian. Both of these old prunes are so unremarkable that I could care less which one wins, just one of you kill the other so we can adjust the body count. David needs to take time out from being DisGrace's toilet paper to brush up on his refereeing, Those skills will soon be needed.

Why, Oh Why do they need to stand there for an eternity before Marta, turns to Dorito and says: Um, looks like he is hurt, maybe you call nine Juan Juan.

The most important case (as we have seen anyway) in his watch and his witness is escorted by the Sheriff and his on off on off on off girlfriend? No other popo. no vests, nuttin Honey.

You know why do they bore us with this shit. Just let him park his Harley to write a parking ticket as Marta drives by with Adolf and lightning strike Gut.

Anybody think Darito neeeds a change of drawers? "Sheezo Marta what did you talk me into? That turned to snake shit in a hurry. Last time I will listen to the nanny."

Urban, yes it was a clue when DisGotcha! mentioned to Bobby how she could pull some (ropes) to get him into a school in S P A I N. ! ! ! He recoiled at that like he wasshot too.

was shot Samsstrung

She can't wait to isolate David. Once she gets rid of his children and her mother she intends to get him to sell the vineyard and then what? She'll spend the money?

At this point she may have to die for anything to be put right.

This is great Cynthia, thanks

"Dave tends to be as stubborn as a goat once he’s made up his mind to do something"

At least they didn't shoot Carito but since Brian is the only law enforcement official in the US I guess Juan is safe.

I hope Graciela continues to be patient with Bobby. If Bobby becomes more involved in soccer he'll ask her to talk David into sending him to the school in Spain. Strategic Patience, Graciela.

If Sonia is so concerned about what Lilian is doing then why didn't she tell someone?

Uncomfortable as it is to watch, I feel Luciana, unable to turn off after a day.


David needs to take time out from being DisGrace's toilet paper to brush up on his refereeing,

Anybody think Darito neeeds a change of drawers? "Sheezo Marta what did you talk me into? That turned to snake shit in a hurry. Last time I will listen to the nanny."

Gosh, man, you're on this early! Crackin' me up!

Well, I hope what I shared isn't a spoiler but it occurred to me that the death scene was sooo long that maybe they made his torturous demise a cliff hanger but sounds like he died at the end of this episode and if so, MAN, they left out a key plot point!!

I apologize if indeed this is going to be shown at the beginning of today's show but y'all know he's going to die, not sure why they treated the confession like this.

Not sure why I keep wondering why these darned writers do whatever they do whacka do!

Yah, anyway, Carito maybe doesn't need a change of drawers cause I'm sure that scene scared her shitless! Indeed, as Cynthia said, why were they WALKING to the Police Station and why were they right there at the scene of the human trafficking bust stop and site of Juan's major ass-whuppin?

DOH! Maybe this whole novela is a story written by Dud-veed who is also a secret romance novelist like Sonia and soon the cover will be closed and it will be Luciana and Dave reading this story to their triplets, Milk Dud, Furbrainita and Boobie!

Yah, that's it!!! ;D

Sell the vineyard....Urban, that is what has me corn fuzed. What exactly is her game plan?

She wants to Marry Dudley. Not just 'get' him, or make him fall for her, but legally married is this stage of the plan, apparently.

BUT then what? OK so get the kids out of the picture. Then what? ! ? ! ? !

Sell it and take her share? Sell it and they move into town and become socialites?

Buy her a side boyfriend that she actually likes.

Just call me corn-bread.

Get the kids out of the picture, sell the vineyard and live in a little cottage at the top of a windy hill where she's had Dudley DoWrong stuffed and permanently seated at the head of the dining room table. . . .

. . .or permanently plopped atop their "marriage" bed. Use your imagination.

Okay, Cynthia, I'm genuinely shocked that (AFAICT) nobody's used "hear it through the grapevine" before you did. You're slipping, people!

And you and Lila beat us all to it on two points:
1. Magic Brian escorting Carito and Marta to Sonoma PD HQ...on foot. How the fork did he get to Bodega del Disfuncion in the first damn place?!? Does everybody walk in Sonoma? Do only tourists own the cars we see in the establishing shots?
2. It looked like Brian wasn't quite dead at the end of this episode, though with all his flopping around like a dead fish...OTOH, it wasn't as long as Cristian de la Fuente's death scene in Corazon salvaje '09. (Yet.) But it'd be oddly hilarious if, going off the apparently uncut scene, the editors we love to hate snip out the bit about Marta declaring she still loves him--the only edit that might actually help, since she's supposed to be moving the fork on with Ramon. Marta's relationship, woes are the one thing that rival David's all-over blazing hot mess for THE WORST EVER, and even if the groundwork's been there for weeks we don't need to see this bit!


How the fork did he get to Bodega del Disfuncion in the first damn place?!?

Bill, I could just SCREAM!!!! They just don't care, do they? They just don't a flyin' fudge! THIS MAKES NO SENSE!!!

Ok, even if we give them that they drove to the Police Dept., why did he park so far away, again, parking at the slave bus stop and walking. . . .oh, no, I can't.


" their "marriage" bed. Use your imagination." I shouldn't have, Can Taxidermists do THAT? :-)

If that bullet doesn't do him in the four blood capsules he was crushing in his mouth were making him gag.

One more before I head off to Encino Blanco, the fountainhead of corruption...

Lillian's original plan when Lisa was still alive was to steal the vineyard out from under David. If she could have gotten him indebted to her to have to sign it over to pay the debt (unlikely) or gotten him to somehow put it in Lisa's name under some false pretext, either would probably have satisfied her. Then a few years later Bobby was born.

Remember that Lillian did try back then to get DisGrace to back off on trying to seduce David. She didn't want her boat rocked. It took a while before she realized that she couldn't trust Juan and that was when she backed DisGrace's efforts to bag David. She wanted a cushy life so all she had to do was read her books, drink David's wine, and go into town at will.

DisGrace is still the disfavored daughter three years after she killed Lisa. She wants to be rid of her mother. That is the only thing about DisGrace that I can sympathize with. However, you don't separate a father from children who need him or separate him from land that means something to him that you don't get. That exchange with Luciana last week in which DisGrace mocked the concept of loving the land was getting to the heart of this situation.

I don't think there are enough episodes left for this to go there but what could David do for a living if he sold the vineyard? DisGrace obviously thinks that all he would do is spend time with her. Well, whatever bedroom tricks she knows will only go so far before he would need more. She's a silicone doll with no heart and no soul and he would realize that before she would need botox.

Which, now that I think of it, she might be getting as prevention.

I don't think there are enough episodes left for this to go there but what could David do for a living if he sold the vineyard?

I don't know, is there any money in request-a-depraved-act-on-camera porn sites?

DisGonebonkersalongtimeago HAS no plan! She doesn't understand or care about the vineyard or the concept of love of the land, SHE'S CRAAAAY-ZEEEEE!!!

Cynthia, I had to add a thank you for all those great screen caps. I also wanted to tell you that Gladys and the PIps would be flattered by the way you worked in their signature tune.

Regarding Brian dying: I played back the end and I assumed he was dead because of all the blood he was spitting up and the very last couple of frames he goes limp and motionless, but his eyes are still open. I think he's dead, maybe not all the way dead, but mostly dead.

Thanks, Cynthia. So they're going to play the confession on tonight's show. Again, I apologize if this is a spoiler. They just had better not cut it out!

Also, I always neglect to mention the screen caps. They are amazing and add so much to the enjoyment of the recap which is more enjoyable than the show! Thank you!

Thank you, thank you, Cynthia. I just scrolled through the screencaps, and they are perfect.

I've also read the comments and was struck by this:

Lila "The greatest "love" story in this effed up novela is that between Lil and Marta -- they have only loved men that the other "loved" and shagged, now both of those middle men are dead. Just cut to the chase, heffas!" THIS. It's sad when the most reliable relationship in a TN is this one. Even Leon and Sonia have had dumb spats, but Lilian and Marta are SOLID.

I wonder if Lil will blame Marta for Gut's death.

NOW I will read the recap.

The longest death scene I have ever seen is at the end of ALborada. The guy is run through with a sword at the top of a long outside staircase and does a backwards sommersault down the staircase. Not dead . He is put to bed. Then, he gives his goodbye deathbed speech over the next three or four episodes. Hubba would wander into the room every night and ask me, "Is that guy still alive?"

I still do not know what the message of this show is supposed to be, but I notice that at the beginning, the baddies were all hooked up with someone , but we had a lot of single goodies. Evidently the message is that if you are a good person , you will eventually after going through a lot of manure find a pony ...In other words , you will get a significant other as your reward...SusanCEsar, CubbySonia, FerTano, MartaRAmon, DaveLU...MAYBE miguelCArito ugh...But no one left for sweet AFolfo...Please not LIlian.

Who gets blamed for his death is pale in comparison to the deport reveal. But contrary to TN logic I would say the one responsible for his death is the other fellow who was shooting a gun

I wonder if Lil will blame Marta for Gut's death.

Of course she will and in the sick emotional web these two are entangled in, this new death and battling over who really loved him, and who loved him more will be the center of more years of the kind of mind-effing these two pitiful broads love so well.

Lila Kirby, and BIll..You guys are on fire this morning.

You are all thinking about the whys so much more than these writers ever have.

Grace WANTS Dave..Period. THat's it. She has not thought about the long-term. She got him in bed. She got the ring. She has plans simmering for getting Fed and BIbbity Bobbitty Boo out of the house. After that??????? She is like a kid begging for a toy. Once the kid actually gets the toy, it is often left in the toy box or traded with the neighbor. Uh oh, Dave, there could be a box or a new owner in your future. Is there a market for middle aged bearded guys who wear vests , are depressed, and not too bright? Probably not...Then, it's the box, DAve.ADios, Pappy. QUe lastima.

" I shouldn't have. Can taxidermists do THAT?" Now, I will have that image in my mind as I go off to listen to speeches about technology, pollution, and robots,

Lila, you are winding Kirby up. Pace yourselves, guys,. It is still early in the day.


Thanks, Cynthia!! "Sorry, I’m thinking about HAL in 2001 Space Odyssey" ha! I'm glad you made that joke! And I especially like the screencap where DG is talking about wedding plans and David looks like he's thinking of running away to join the circus.

Why did Gut come to the house when they were all going to end up going to the police station anyway?

When Susan told David that there was more work at the vineyard than they could handle, I thought he'd say he was ready to roll up his sleeves and help. But nope.

Poor Cesar. He's always right, and David never pays him any heed.

DG still laying the groundwork to send Bobby to Spain. I guess she was just testing the waters. It may actually be harder to get him on board with going to Spain now that he knows he can go to a futbol school in SF.

While I feel sorry for Lu, it's not right for her to blame DG for this. DG did manipulate her way into this engagement, but David is the one who let Luciana down. (This reminds me of Lil blaming Marta for ruining her marriage. Marta never made any vows to Lilian. Fernando did. Put the blame where it belongs.) (Marta did make vows to Marcos, but that's a separate issue.)

So the Spanish word for "pie" is... "pie"? Wish they had said what kind it was. These things are important to me.

Sad to say, I was dividing my attention last night and didn't see any of David's beard-scratching. But I'll bet there will be more tonight.

Susanlynn: "Is there a market for middle aged bearded guys who wear vests , are depressed, and not too bright?" welll... he'd prolly have to shave. I don't mind the vests. But he's going to have to either cheer up or smarten up. I can take gloomy or dim, but not both. This comes with free wine, though, right?

Susanlynn, are they evil space robots?
Ask them if they're available for a quick job on the side?

Julie..I will check. The two people giving that speech are from CHina and Albania. I will take notes and get back to you. My students often surprise me. And you are right..."gloomy AND dim" is always a deal breaker for me, too.

Susanlynn at 11. I wish we could chat live while the show is on! Then you'd REALLY see how naughty the Patio can be!


I will work on the chat thing a little more tonight. I found a site but haven't had a chance to test it yet or research to find out what kind of reputation it has.

Why did Gut come to the house when they were all going to end up going to the police station anyway?

Well, when Maaaarrtyr called him she was very vague, just said she HAD TO talk to him and couldn't go into detail over the phone. As he left, one of his underlings offered to come along but Brian said, "No thanks, this is personal."

Poor sap.

The need to be prompted to call 911 was as koo koo as walking to the Police Station or either parking a mile away from it walking through the underpass of ass-whuppin and death! She should have yelled into the phone OFFICER DOWN, OFFICER DOWN!!

David scrstched his beard twice early on. First out in the fueld wgen Sue first confronted him. It was a three finger cheek/beard two stroke. Then in his orofice qhen SiezeHer was talking it was a four finger claw with a three stroke duration.

So... Sue and Cesar make him itchy.
Or, truth/wisdom makes him itchy?
We will continue to study this.

can'type on a fone. butt it is stihl reedable.

it appears to be a nervous tick. Of Sorts. Kinda like that little noise the car makes to let you know it is preparing to leave its engine on the next overpass.

Hi Julie, thanks for your comments, just wanted to address what you said: "So the Spanish word for "pie" is... "pie"? Wish they had said what kind it was."

A lot of English words have made their way into the Spanish language, one of them being "pie". There are a number of words to designate pastry, one being "pastel", another being "empanada" (which is actually a turnover). Sometimes the generic word for dessert is used, that being "postre". But there is no one real word in Spanish for a pie as we know it, like an apple pie. Sometimes they use the word for tart, which is "tarta", but that still isn't a pie. When I go to Mexican bakeries, pies are just not there. You can see a number of different kinds of pastries, pan de huevo, empanadas, but no pies made in a 9 inch pie plate, double or single crusted with fruit or cream.

Wow! I didn't know that, Cynthia. Thank you.

Why concentrate so much on what Graciela plans post marriage. I think Graciela will be just as successful keeping David and if she slips Lilian will be right there to coach. David will get into a groove and I see extended travel, romantic getaways, robust social calendar and getting their freak on in an empty nest.

Randy, Graciela humphing Dave didn't think about Luciana much though he saw her everyday and he wouldn't even be thinking of giving her some closure had Luciana not been at the restaurant and he had to see her sad face. How dare Luciana ruin the evening for him.

How arrogant of him, deciding the squeaky wheel shouldn't squeak if only it understood.

While we are a teensy bit off topic, has anyone else noticed the trend in TNs lately for Spanglish? In this one a character will be speaking along in Spanish and an occasional English sentence escapes. There was a TN before this one where it was much more frequent. It was really pretty good, Despertar Contigo, (waking with You) The main good girl's bestie just constantly flipped back and forth from one language to the other. And in La Piloto they do a bit of it too. The Lucios will be blibbidy blabbing along and then one will just say "why do you think that?"

ToffMaster: One minor little detail, after Dudley pays for this wedding he will be broke, and as of now his Vineyard is going to hell in a handbasket and he is oblivious. He, AFAIK, has no other means of income, as he was accepting money recently from the Succubus. She'd make a great hooker. We will see.

College for Furby and soccer school in Spain is not cheap and his business is on autopilot with dead batteries.

I agree with everyone here that Gut's death was just too long and drawn out. I do NOT like bloody death scenes and the spitting up blood is just too much for me. I was careful to get screenshots that didn't show so much blood. I really had trouble looking at it and I just assumed at the last couple of frames as he slipped into unconsciousness that it was death. I cannot see him coming back from this since he was spitting up so much blood, it was obvious to me that his lungs were filling up with blood and that this was it. I don't think even paramedics could have done anything to help if he had that much internal bleeding. Where is Miracle Max when you need him?


Cynthia: With Gutierrez dead, who's going to be the new Sonoma County, CA Sheriff ?


Regarding the Spanglish, I've noticed a couple of times that while conversing with Lilian, David will say something in English (like "thank you") and that seems to effectively end the conversation. There must be some point of etiquette here that's going over my head. Like speaking to someone in her (supposedly) native language is tantamount to telling her to stfu.

Steve, well we don't have enough time to have another election. But if this were to go on and on, I could see Juan running for office, so that he could be the EVIL Sheriff of Sonoma County.

These writers or the director has a thing for the soon-to-be-dead to wax poetic and passionate with their last phlegm-filled breaths: witness Erica as she lay gasping in Miguel's arms and now the hapless Gut, mortally wounded in the Gut confessing the major sin of his life --- as we will apparently witness tomorrow. Somebody is getting off on these graphic death scenes.

Now, let's have one for noJuancaresabout you and DisGraveyardbound.

Re the Spanglish, very interesting! Maybe most times it's hip/funny/cool or whatever but like with Dud and Wilted (Lil) I think you nailed it, Julie: Like speaking to someone in her (supposedly) native language is tantamount to telling her to stfu. Yah, like, "I heard you, dammit, now STFU"!

Maybe Brian Gutierrez has a long-lost twin, Ryan, who can take his place.

What will Carito do now?
This murder appeared to be within the city limits, and even though there is not now a Sheriff, it is in the jurisdiction of the city cops to investigate, and to carry on the investigation.

If there is one and only one truth about modern law enforcement, if you kill one, every one of them within a hundred miles is now gunning for your ass. Why do they remind me of my Fire Ants? That said, we assume they will somehow tie this to NoJuan.. I can't remember if both perps are dead or not. I think Gut got both of them

Will Carito's Near Death Experience make Perla realize that NoJuan is a lying murderer?
Will Perla be able to put one juan and juan together and get too? :-)
Will Carito be on the next FAST bus back to Mexico?
Does Marta (not that it will make any diff) know what Carito told Gut?
Did Gut's body camera record all this?


I see two movies coming out of this, Julie! Brian's Song and Saving Private Ryan!

Dud-Leigh has the body, and if he does not get off his arse he is going to need to find SOME method to generate an income....just sayin

And we still don't know what the underling was trying to give Gut when he rushed off to see Marta (he thought).

Perla is one dumb cluck but I'm hoping she will put juan and juan together and get the hell away from NoJuanwillprotectyounow. She said if he hurt Carito, she would go to the Police and sing like a canary. Does attempted hit count as "hurt" in Perla's world?

I'm not sure how much Marta knows. She discretely went upstairs when Carito was talking to Gut. Both these chicks witnessed the shoot-out (yah, the two other perps are dead) which resulted in the death of The Sheriff: they must needs go under police protection 24/7 like Gut-man promised, don't ya think?! Carito should be even more motivated now to tell her story to authorities.

Body camera? Wake up man! Remember, they walked to the Police Station through the seediest part of town!

And we still don't know what the underling was trying to give Gut when he rushed off to see Marta (he thought).

Oh yeah! That's right!

Ok, time for me to do other stuff and stop spamming the board. See y'all later!

Excellent recap, Cynthia - thanks! I just laughed so hard: Tano tells him that he wanted to make sure he knew right away so that he can let Luciana know, since she shouldn’t have to hear it through the grapevine. That was fantastic. What a little gossip, albeit this time well-intentioned, Tano kind of is.

Poor Gut. RIP. You were fun to screencap.

Julie - couldn't agree with this more... DG did manipulate her way into this engagement, but David is the one who let Luciana down.

For anyone who wants to live chat any telenovela (except La Piloto because no one talks about that as it's awful), just go on Twitter during the show and use the hashtag that Uni gives you. You'll find people chatting it up who are very friendly. I'm in the #vinoamor tag almost every night. I'm not watching it, but many Twitter users are into Mujeres de Negro right now.


Six months from now, I won't remember a damned thing about this TN, but I will always remember our Patio fondly.

Twitter yes, dy77, but I was looking for something that doesn't require any special kind of account or login. Not everyone here has or wants a twitter account (or wants people to know what it is).

In retrospect...and as weird as it is...this may actually be the first novela I've ever seen where none of the characters owns a car. Hell, we've never seen any of them with a car except for Leon and Sonia's field trip to Mexico City (actually, wait--didn't David have a big SUV up until Lisa died?). And considering it's set in Wine Country,'s such a weird disconnect, even with the show basically glossing over/ignoring it. Since the show comparatively seems to have been shot on a budget (the dark side of actually shooting in California?), maybe they didn't have money left over for even a cruiser for Magic Brian...

Cynthia--Have to thank you and run. What a blessing it was for you to not only have just one episode to recap, and very well indeed, but to get the mortal agony of our resident hunk. (I didn't say he was our hunk, but he was certainly Lil's and Marta's.) RIP--or is it too early to send condolences.

How many times have we seen someone ripped through the chest by a bullet and survive? More than I can count. So this one is fatal? There was a lot of blood.

Agree to the idiocy of the three "victims" having to walk to the station. (Hmmm all the way from the Incompetent Vineyard?) I think it was near an underpass where, was it Miggy who got beat up? They could have made it just as dramatic to have them drive up to the station, get out and there is a shoot-out between Gut, the two hitmen and other police to come running. Gut could still have been mortally wounded and the two hitmen could be dead and we would be much more satisfied. Arrrgghh.

Now a quick look at all the comments. They have to be terrific.

BillC--Yep, think budget. Renting cars can get expensive for 140 episodes. And, haven't we all noticed that the Sonoma Police Station is not a Police Station but a Community Building--always an outside shot. Man these folks were cheap.

Yes, Anita, that looked like the same place Mig got his beatdown.

Bill, I didn't see the one where Leon and Sonia went to Mexico City, so I didn't realize they'd shown anyone in a car since the day Lisa died. The only cars I've seen since then were parked on the street in downtown Sonoma. I was starting to think they must all travel by Segway.

Leon and Sonia went to Mexico City? It must have happened while I was gone. All I remember was Leon and Luci running around Mexico City waiting for her interview. Man, how could this have happened? Did they get to San Francisco in Mexico City?

Ah, well if it was Luci and Leon in MC, then I do remember that and I even remember missing it! So I never saw that car, either. Oh well. It's not like I rely on TV for looking at cars!

Anita: Luciana bailed for Mexico City for a bit about sixty eps back due to her work visa being about to expire, and Leon went with her. They ended up on a bus (or in a cab, I don't remember which) running around so Luci could make a meeting about said visa. That was literally the last time we ever saw a character in a vehicle on this fakakta show.

And since you put the thought in my head: as it turns out, the Sonoma PD HQ in-show is apparently the actual PD HQ. But, since we literally never even see anybody coming in or out of it or anything other than that one damn establishing shot, it's just as bad as if it was some other building.

Do cities normally have sheriffs? I thought sheriffs were for county-level law enforcement.

Julie..Yes, in the country, we have sheriffs and the state police. Some areas have what they call around here regional Police. I think that most cities have police departments.


1.) Lisa Robles

2.) Marcos Munoz

3.) Immigrants from the Smuggling Fields

4.) El Coyote

5.) Don Fernando

6.) Mark Evans AKA OJ Mark

7.) Juan's Wife

8.) Erika Ballesteros

9.) Juan's Hired Thugs

10.) Sonoma County, CA Sheriff Brian Gutierrez AKA I'm Ashamed of Being Latino!


Steve, who is Juan's wife that you keep referring to? I don't remember Juan ever having a wife or anyone ever mentioning such a person.

Adolfo told Lu, "Finish what you were eating, and you'll feel better." Ahhh....that is such a dad thing to say. Adolfo is such a good guy. I hope that Miguel becomes like a son to him.

Me, neither.

A few points here to be added to the list of felonies and misdemeanors being committed in the production of this series.

Somewhere in the beginning we saw Fernanda in a car with her friends, one of the friends at the wheel. There have been a few cabs here and there.

Maybe the network blew the automobile budget on MdN. Lots of cars in that one.

There are slews of cars in Morphodite Airplane Driver (La (female adverb) Piloto (male noun)). Cadillac SUVs and Ford F150s

Cynthia, another blockbuster. I did not like the last scene of this episode. Why the he'll didn't gut have
On a bulletproof vest? Aren't they suppose to wear vest? Especially when
They're lookin for peoplestrafficers.
I hate that they killed him off. Maybe that's why he got the award, he died really well. He died loving Marta. Lil
Is going to find a way to blame marta.
What else is new. I saw how gosh darn
Hotlookin he is.And they kill him off.

O, stupid stupid dud-vid."In time I'll
Fall in love with graciella and forget
About luciana",Jackass! It don't work
Like that in some worlds.He didn't even believe that when he said it. She
Come floucing in the office with many
Wedding mags, "whatever you do is fine
With me",now here's a man in love(Not)
Meaning she can wear croker sack, he'd
Be fine. He Is lying to himself for the sake of the kids. He's gonna blow.
The pressure is building.

She wants to ship Booby off to far away Spain. Booby ain't Havin it. She
Plottin now, cuz he said unequivocally NO!! I'm not leaving. We'll he said nope. But we get it. He ain't leaving.

Lillian is going to be inconsolable when she hears about gut.I hate it, he
Was so pretty.Why'd they have to make
Him so gorgeous and then kill him off?
We'll thats tv forya.

So Dave is gonna go see lucy? He may
Have to make that trip to the hospital
Cuz that's where they may be, as mom will be there with brian.(O brian, don't die, let this be a nightmare of lil's and she wakes up screaming NOOOOO! and he only got shot once and survived). Ok I'm back. Stupid writters. Just my wishful thinkin.
I guess fer is really blind,or she don't want to see her dad is in a
Miserable state,cuz shes too into her own selfishness. Yeah, that's it.

Cynthia this saw good. Thank you.

Few of them make it through a whole episode without being shot full of holes or blown up with dynamite.

Fun show with the stewardesses, but feel awful about all those F150s.

Adolfo such a sweet man, and he's really daddyish to Lucy. Just what she
Needs. Ok, now I'm done.

That's not a pretty bird!!

I think Televisa is looking at Juan Vidal (Gutierrez) as a future star. He certainly looks good with that nice thick hair and that totally fine physique that we didn't see often enough. Death scenes are a good test of acting ability. That he is also bilingual is also a plus.

I think Juan Vidal might do well in comedies, too. His timing and his facial expressions/reactions are perfect, and he seems a little bit hammy. I would definitely like to see him again in something good.

The Bird was supposed to show the look on David's face when he finally wakes up with succubus one morning and realizes what he has done.

Word got around that I am a Bird Whisperer and that little owl decided to visit one night.

WHAT he has done?
Or HOO he has done??

Kirby..yeah, that would be the look. Well, he made his bed, so...

I am not going to be happy watching Lu forgiving and forgetting and taking Dumbo back. She should move on. Dave is high maintenance , and I think that things are just going to get worse as time marches on. Old Dave will most likely be even needier and grumpier than middle aged Dave. Run, Lulu, run.

Probably hiding from a bigger bird. He just showed up, sat up there for about an hour, then as unceremoniously flew back out. They are not naturally afraid of people like most birds.

Sue if she takes him back and rehabilitates him AGAIN....she deserves the emotional cripple she will be with.

That "One true Luuuurvvve" that she can just not forget. Baloney. Some people are lucky and fall in love for a lifetime. I, OTOH have had more "One True Loves" than I can count on all my paws.

If LuLu could find a Tanoish guy right for her,. a year from now she would not be able to tell you David's last name.

Kirby..perhaps it is all about luck...meeting the right person for you at the right time.

Tano is a great guy who would make a good boyfriend and husband...kind, intelligent, sensitive, thoughtful, and respectful. I saw an old photo of my dad when I was a baby...he had hair just like Tano's!!!

Lu and David's is a budget love story: don't show the audience, just let at least one of the characters declare love over and over, whine, cry, piss and moan while the other character sucks face, fornicates in every room of the house and even marries someone else.

Lila, you know I forgot to mention something Bout what jackass-vid said
about Lucy "I don't like what she did
With my kids", where the hell did that
Come from. Lucy did nothing but try to
Get along with those unbearable little
Selfish monsters. He and Lucy tryin to work to keep the vineyard from goin under booby whines "that's all you and
Lucy do is work" what about me what about me what about me. And then he's
Got the nerve to say Lucy isn't good
Enough for his brats?!?!That koolade
The hellion been giving him has gone to his bearded head. He's a grown add
Man let his spoiled braty kids and his
Manipulative bottom feed twist him all
In knots. And now got him marrying that succubus from he'll. He must not have been paying attention all those years when Lisa was pushing her away from them. He wasnt paying attention. Stupid jackass.
Ok done venting for now : )

Grownass man" above.

Lila..I guess this is the new idea of romance..????? It will be interesting to see how these daffy writers wrap up this messy mess. What lessons were we supposed to learn? Sibling rivalry can turn deadly? Wine is fine? Tantrums are effective in getting your way? Spend your life carrying a grudge? Live with your motherinlaw..forever? Let your kids micromanage your life?

So...will Grace manage to drag Dave to the altar? Will the roof fall in if Grace enters a church? Will the marriage constitute bigamy for Grace since she has been in an unholy alliance with El Diablo for a long time ? Will a fammiillyy member kill Grace when she is unmasked as Lisa's killer? Or will Grace end up BSC in jail or a mental institution? If so, will she ask Dave for conjugal visits? Will Dave actually consider this request?

Good question, Susanlynn... can Grace even set foot on hallowed ground?

I would like the wedding to take place in the vineyard that Grace loves so much, with all of its dirt and snakes and manual laborers.

Say... if a snake bites her, will her venomous blood harm the snake?

If Grace goes to prison, David will not do conjugal visits. He will visit her frequently, though, with his new girlfriend and say how much better his life is now. Then he will give her all the technical data on the current season's crops and drone on and on until she wants to stab herself in the eye, but she won't be able to because the sharpest thing they let her have is a pillow. (She has to eat with her hands.)

As for lessons, I learned that police make house calls, but they won't drive you places. They don't need to. They know all the back-alley shortcuts.

I'm off to forage for my dinner. If I get home before 9 I will try to open up a chat room. If it looks good, I will post the URL here in case anyone happens to be online so we can try it out.

Julie Great Idea. I will keep this site open and peep here on and off. I did that years ago with some show and it was hilarious. Like: "Ooooohhh did you see that. Has he gone beserk? No. I think his pacemaker rebooted."

Nina at 6:27. Yah, girl, that really peed me off! You're right, Dumbveed drank the koolaid and gets refills everyday. He's already dead, you can see it in his eyes!

Susanlynn at 6:35. Yep! Apparently that's the lesson, at least for psychopaths and looks like Luci is going to join the ranks of the emotionally disturbed because she's already declared that she luuuurves Dudveed no matter what!

Julie.."foraging for dinner" made me smile because we often do that. After years of cooking for the family, I am not interested in cooking. Hubba does most of it, but we often "forage." Who wants to cook!

"Hallowed ground"... Were you a " Highlander the TV series" fan? I know that Carlos watched that show. There can be only one! Maybe I'll do a marathon of that series one day.

Any bets on if a wedding will actually happen , and what episode the rocking will be revealed? How many episodes are left?

I think if DisGrace enters a church, there will be an earthquake and the building will collapse on her.

Isn't it 10 to 12 episodes left? So hard to predict when the rocking will be revealed with these "amazing" writers.

If Juan hasn't self-destructed by then, I'd like him to crash the wedding or reception, something public, something that will freak DG out and make her melt down and confess and get her ass dragged away by the police!

What is extra specially to the Moon maddening is DisGrace with her over thr top fake fawning and pawing DudLeigh and the kids. Any normal kid would tell her to cut that shit out and keep her cootie hands off.

"Oh I'm just soooo happy I could blah blah blah, and suck out your blood, I Looove blood so um you kids so much."

What happened to normal kids testing the boundaries? The first thing kids usually want to know is how BIG a liar any freshly minted grownup is. They will in many situations risk punishment just to find out if you mean what you say.

These vanilla Stepford zombie kids are nothing like that.

" ......Let him speak now or forever hold his...HRMPFH Father, may I?"

"Certainly, and you are, Sir?" "NoJuan Tellez, Father, and I have......."

"Grace, Grace? Daughter, what are you doing?"

"If I can't have him, nojuan can."

She bites him and gives him Rabies.

Yah, you're right! They were easy to sucker, just look at their sperm donor! That's what's got me just itching for the BIG REVEAL! I will squeal with delight as they run around screaming, bumping into each other and looking for something sharp or something high to jump off of. Hey, maybe Fer can get a ladder and climb up to the top of the employee luxury condo like she did back a few eps ago.

Yah, that sounds cold-blooded but it's not my fault! Graceless and Dumbnuts made me feel this way!

I would bet the Rocking reveal will be on the heels of the wedding. Why would they waste any time? That is what H A S to happen, TinyBrainNoNuts has to actually be married to her, and then find out what he has done/she has done.

Of course he will not get a prenup, because that would prove to DisGrace that he is still pining for LuLu and does not trust DG after all she has done for his Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilllly.

OMG yes Susanlynn, I even had a Highlander viewing party once (1995 I think). I snicker every time you say "unholy alliance," that was one of the best episodes.

Rabies doesn't get used as frequently in TNs as I would like.

Another lesson learned: blondes have more fun. I mean, look at these people.

I will fire up a chatroom after I finish my sammidge.


I think that Juan cannot wait to put this final knife into Dave. He will do it in front of Grace and perhaps the whole Fam damily . It will be glorious to watch Grace denying, crying, lying , and grabbing while Juan grins and gloats. I need to get a bottle of wine and maybe popcorn. I hope that it is epic.

Sorry I am so late Cynthia.

Another fantastic outing. You have added so much here! Insightful and thoughtful as always.

Did anyone else notice Tano is scratching his face as David’s been doing? Any significance? No? Probably I’m just desperately trying to find something to divert me from this never ending angst.

While I agree Brian’s death throes seemed long, drawn out and painful, I am going to make a comment I don’t think I’ve ever made. The actor completely dropped the ball IMHO. He was flailing about, and felt (strange as it seems due to the circumstance), was just overly dramatic. I think he’s done a good job overall but in this scene? Nopis.

I still fear for Carito.

Now I hope David does marry Graciela and that when he finally realizes his mistake, he will lose Luciana and his fortune. Good luck. Adios.

Thank you for all the insightful comments everyone. The marvelous recaps, fascinating comments and Kirby's avatars always impress and cheer me daily.

Cynthia, thank you!


Julie...I loved Highlander's Adrian Paul. I used to go on a site with other fans , and I went to someone's house for a "gathering" teehee. My daughters were worried about me meeting strangers I met online and wanted me to "take some kind of weapon." We had a couple gatherings at this person's place and also went to one of the later Highlander movies and lunch. Some of the folks went to conferences with the actors. Very nice ladies. There were two camps...Duncan and Methos. I still drop into the site, but not many people go there anymore.

Diana ..yes, the "never ending angst" is weighing me down, too. And I also agree that Gut's death scene was much too much. Geez, dial it back.

Julie..did you cut the crusts off the sammich? If so, how long did it take you to decide to do it?

Diana, maybe Tano is subconsciously mimicking his idol with the face-rubbing.

Susanlynn, I went to a Highlander convention in 1995 and saw AP in person. I confess I got tongue-tied and said stupid things. Ditto with Stan Kirsch. I bailed in the final season when Duncan killed Richie. Apparently, I have limits.

My sammy was on a long roll, so there was no way to cut off the crusts. But I still pondered it for a little while.

Back in a few...

OK here goes nothing

If it asks for a password, it's:


The chat room disappears after the last person leaves.

Oh no, the chat room is frozen!


Reload the page, Lila!

reload = f5

Awww. . . fudge! No matter how many times I reload the chat is stuck in the same spot!


Mine updates when I reload... but I think that will not be a long-term solution for us.

Can't wait to see you guys on the Patio tomorrow, great show! Thanks for setting up the chat room, Julie. I'm sorry it pooted out on me, at least I got to hang out for a bit!


Yeah, I bailed too. I'll find something else.

I rather liked that death confession of Brian. He was shot in lower front,
Looked like it could have been the in the liver and then the other bullet may have hit the heart. That would explain the blood upchuckin. Doin that and talkin and tryin to breath at the same time made the death scene last that long. I guess.
Maybe that's why he got that award, he
Died good.Lol.

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