Caray, Caray!

...not to mention that Alejandra is finally starting to tell it like it is.
 

...and Im Gonna love watching this Monday night. And he sittin over there
Spending money and using credit cards
He stole from her. They Havin one of them southern beat downs on a Friday night. Yall know they're gonna end up in front of the judge. Lol, but they R
Havin so much fun beatin The blue crap outta Him.

So is Mel goin to jail? Is Isa gonna
Forgive Gus? Is letty gonna kick Benny
To the curve? Is Roberto gonna kick the crap outta Arturo for comin on the Vicky outta jealousy or because he dooped oli? Either one is fine with me. the guy is a major jerkoff.

Thanks for the discussion page Urban.
Y'all have a safe weekend in the upper
Regions, and y'all like me in here the southern regions. This is gonna be an action packed weekend weather wise.

 

I'm playing catch-up, and I'm on Episode 11.

I just wanted to make some trivial comments and ask a few questions without spoiling the next 15 or so episodes I have remaining.

In Episode 11, Ana Brenda C. is carrying an ~ $2,500 Gucci pocketbook ! Boy that's royalty ! I carried knapsacks (field engineering)!

Some of the shoes of the female lawyers have toothpick-high heels in the style of Christian Louboutin (red painted bottoms & heels). OMG, the heels are like toothpicks ! I wore construction boots for decades, and dress flats only on occasion. I'd never be able to walk in those things. Especially, on grass ! It would be like sticking a golf pick into the fairway.

And what is up with Ana Brenda's butt zippered dresses/skirts and the low plunging necklines on the females ? We haven't seen such provocative work clothes since Ana Leticia ! TVA

What is up with all these tight-ass suits the males are wearing ? The pants, to me, are 6 inches too short, and their biceps seem to want to break open the sleeves. One lawyer, I don't remember whom, was actually wearing a PURPLE suit. Do people really dress like that now at work ? And all the neatly folded pocket handkerchiefs. I guess they don't blow their noses👃.

Univisión edits/censors the cuss words, but leaves in the naked butts and the boobs ready to pop out ! Give me a good old fashioned cuss word any day of the week.

Carlos is a sleaze bag. He gives me the cooties! Steve, do you vote on him having killed the 'ballerina' (are hookers considered 'ballerinas'? Or did his cousin set him up ?

And if someone would be so kind as to tell me what the organizational chart is for Vega & Associates, I would appreciate it greatly. I can't figure out Partner vs Abogado Senior vs Managing Partner vs Abogado Junior vs Law Clerk vs Secretary vs Receptionist, and on and on? I can just figure out the clients.

I know that Alonso is the head honcho and it's his business, but everyone else ? At least Alonso seems to be very democratic and involves the other lawyers in his decision making process, even though he has the final say.

Thanks Urban for suggesting this novela. I’ve been able to put my dislike of DZ to the side.

 

Victoria, Alonso is the managing partner; there does not appear to be an administrative partner, unlike in L.A. Law, which this series closely resembles (see the weekend discussion on this). The other partners are Ricardo, Roberto, and Victoria. As far as I can tell Gustavo, Alejandra, and Benjamin are senior attorneys. Olivia probably also is. Benjamin has campaigned to be made partner but has not been invited to it because of his attitude.

The murdered hooker was a dancer (bailarina) in men's clubs as were the others who were at the bachelor party. We all think that Alan set Carlos up. If you haven't read the recaps from the past week, the backstory about their relationship is waiting for you in episode 25.

The visible zippers are a total mystery to me. I just don't get that. As for the stiletto heels I envy women who can wear them. Thanks to an unstable left knee I can't wear those now. They do lots of great things for one's attitude in normal situations.

The pocket square and matching tie are a very noticeable thing in Alonso's wardrobe, more so than in the other men's. What I'm not getting are the tweed suits in Roberto's.
 

Nina, Monday's episode is on my watch and since I had playback issues I need to re-watch last night's after my first dose of caffeine today. Leonardo throwing the first punch is definitely going to have consequences for him and the firm, since most of the firm was there with him. Victoria acting as the bait came as no surprise and she did her job well there.

That courtroom scene could never happen here. Irene, is there such a thing as contempt of court in Mexico? At least I expected the judge to tell Milena's lawyer to control his client or call a ten-minute recess to allow him time to do that.
 

We on the East Coast missed the first part of this because of the announcement from the Pentagon about the bombing of Syria. But there was certainly a lot of drama in what we did see. Does Leonardo's incendiary reaction to Edgar/Arturo mean that he has unacknowledged feelings for the tender, victimized Olivia? Certainly hope so as I am so very tired of her mooning around, heartbroken and yearning. Would like to see one office romance bloom a bit.
Thanks for putting up the discussion page and giving us a thumbnail synopsis. Very helpful. Happy Saturday everyone. After a brief balmy day, we are back to gray skies and threatening storms. Looks that way for Amar sin Ley as well!

 

Thank you Urban for the discussion page. And thanks to all of the patio peeps for keeping me up to date! I'm a morning person (west coast) so even when I stay up at 10:00 pm to watch, I end up dozing. At least I caught the bar brawl.

But in the scenes with Letya and Benji I missed most of the dialog, other than it seems like Letya finally grew a spine. Can someone fill me in?

Monday looks like fun with Ale and Carlos. I hope she sticks to her guns. Even tho I'm not feeling the love between Ale and Ric, he's a far sight better than Carlos.
 

I could swear that there was a thoughtful look on Leonardo's face when he was comforting Olivia the other night. He's probably gun-shy after Ana Maria cheated on him with Roberto. Since these series don't give us a good sense of how much time passes between these things -- they could at least show changing moon phases -- we don't know how much time has gone by since the opening episode. Even Carlos doesn't mention how much actual time he spent in the slammer and you'd think he would.

While I don't approve of office romance in general I'd like to think that Leonardo and Olivia will get married at the end of the series.

I was a little creeped out by the scene in Alonso's office. I'm not sure what to say other than this would never happen here in the US. A boss would offer an employee time off for something like this but would never touch her or make the sort of comments he did. I don't think he has wrong intentions toward her but this treads into something that isn't done here.
 

Victoria: I felt that he whacked the ballerina from the get-go.
 

For those who missed the opening segment:

Ricardo, Roberto, and Victoria went to the bar and talked to the bearded bartender. They waited around for a while but the culprit didn't show. After a while they gave up and decided to go home. Roberto talked to the bartender and asked him to call him when the guy came back. He was to tell "Arturo" that there was a pending business proposition for him if he asked questions. Next morning the whole office knew. Sympathetic words from Carmen, Rosita, etc., and the scene I referred to above in Alonso's office.

Back later, because I'm going to the opera today. Live in HD is Luisa Miller by Verdi. The tenor is Piotr Beczala, who is seriously good.
 

Thanks for filling that in, UA. And enjoy the opera.
 

I'm not sure how much I missed. The press briefing pre-empted the first 20 or so minutes, but I definitely didn't see the scene in Alonso's office with Rosita. Can someone elaborate?
 

Urban, thanks for the space.

So Carlos swoops into Ale’s office unannounced in the morning (again) with pushy kisses and she halts it and finally says she can’t go on like this, with him acting like nothing happened. He apologizes and they’ll have dinner that night at his place to discuss it all. Will she lower the boom, or will he come up with another delay tactic?

Since Ale is the one calling the cops, I suppose Arturo and his buddies will be taken as the aggressors, even though Leo threw the first punch. To Ric’s credit, he initially moved to break up the Leo-Arturo fight, but once Arturo’s buddies entered the fray, he had little choice. But in the end, looked like Ric was going for a knockout.

Victoria, on my TV station, side boobs are blurred, but butts go unedited. Of the partners, Ric serves as Alonso's right-hand man but I'm not sure if he has a different title from the other partners.

Loriloo, here's what I got from Leticia and Benji. Before sex: Whoopie, we are the best lawyers at Vega and should start our own firm! After sex: Leticia gripes that Benji has his wife, kid, and her, but she has only herself. Since he won't leave his wife, she's going to start going out with Elena to meet another guy. He says te quiero (but not te amo) and says he doesn't even have sex with his wife. She tells him to hit the road.

Anita, I think you're referring to the scene in Alonso's office with Olivia? There's a scene with Rosita, Olivia, and the secretary (Carmen?), where the ladies give Olivia sympathy, then Olivia resumes telling Rosita the next steps in the case against her husband. In the Alonso and Olivia scene, Alonso is father-like in telling Olivia she's lovely, hardworking, and smart and she needs to be careful whom she gives her heart and body to. He's so sorry she learn this the hard way. He holds her face and they hug. He's sure she'll find the right one.
 

I assume Milena is only going to fuel her anger and hate during the time she's in prison. So Gustavo only has relief for two years.

Everyone babies Olivia. Thats why she acts the way she does.

It really didnt occur to Edgar that with olivia being an attorney she would find a way to press charges against him? People with common sense wouldn't frequent the same establishment, at least not so soon.

Anon1146
 

I like what Alonso told her about being careful who She gives her heart to and her body. I Don't know if the others heard him tell her that. But he told her what a father would tell a daughter(no he is Not her father) but maybe she needed that at this time in her life. Maybe her father told her that and she forgot, as children do sometimes forget what they were taught after they've grown up and going out into the world on their own.this was a good time for her to hear it again. Anyway they're going to get the jerk for what he did to her.

As for leticia, from what I saw last
Night she can do a whole let better
Than this pipsqueak. But when you act like trash, you get trash. He says he don't Have sex with his wife. I say she's not missin much.

Monday night should be fun, if we're not pre-empted to anouce we're at war.
And I really hope that never happens.
 

Ok is his name Arturo or Edgar? And he
Is a dumb crook.
And what exactly is Melina going to prison for for 2 years?
 

The jerk who scammed and robbed Olivia is Arturo (played by normally nice guy Alex Sirvent).

Edgar (played by frequently bad but sometimes nice Fabián Robles) is the client of Ale's whose ex is hiding his kid from him.
 

The server knows Arturo by the name Edgar, but for all we know it could be something else entirely.

Milena was sentenced two years for extorsion.

Anon1146
 

Ok thank you Niecie : )
 

Nina, glad I could clear up Arturo.

Anon1146, any chance you caught the name of Ale's client who I thought was Edgar?
 

Niecie--Thank you for all the information. I guess I was confused by an earlier comment on who was in Alonso's office with him.

Yes, Arturo was the name he used posting and with Olivia. The server knowing him as Edgar is correct.

Mr. (Fabian Robles) has always been referred to as Sr. Perez by Ale.
 

Alonso's tender treatment of Olivia did seem very up close and personal by our Anglo-Saxon standards, but I've noticed that Latinos are much more expressive and physically affectionate in general. Hugs and kisses right off the bat. And I remember when the Dominican Republic maintenance gal introduced me to her mom. Mom pulled me right across the desk into a big Mama Bear hug. Encantada and then some as I flopped around and tried to mumble "mucho gusto"! I'm all for it, but I understand how more reserved people, especially those living in big cities, might be a bit taken aback.
 

So far I've only heard Alejandra referring to the Fabian Robles character as Señor Perez and his ex wife as Marcela.

Anon1146
 

CARLOS really has some nerve. When Ale tells him they should end their relationship, he responds (looking genuinely puzzled), "Why??" Does he really not know how much he hurt her? Or does he know but doesn't care? Does he really "love" her? Or does he just not want Ricardo to "win?"
 

That is so true. how can he think that this infidelity was "nothing" on the eve of a wedding? He is not All That.
 

I watched him when he was walking out of the hotel room, that smug look on his face leaving the hooker some flowers thanking her for the night before. Like he was thinking "well I done hit that now I'm gonna go and hit that at the altar". He does think he is all that. I like gustavo better than I like him, at least gus seems like he's sorry he did what he did. I think that he is now just seeing how much damage and hurt he caused his wife and his son. I think both of them is sorry they got caught, but Gus is more remorseful than Carlos is. Carlos
Don't like to loose. And ale better stick to her guns.
 

Good morning, patio friends.

I finally managed to watch the last two episodes and am ready to moan and ramble about the absurdity of it all, but first, I would like to join the choir of compliments about Jardinera's absolutely stellar recap of episode 28. Jardinera, amiga, if you happen to read this please know that I appreciated and enjoyed it very much.

Now, I am going to rant about second most absurd trial in the history of this show, where an innocent woman was sent to prison for a crime of extortion she did not commit in a case in which criminal charges were filed by a private citizen and a prosecution conducted by a family law attorney.

Article 390 of the Codigo Penal Federal states the following: "Al que sin derecho obligue a otro a dar, hacer, dejar de hacer o tolerar algo , obteniendo
un lucro para sí o para otro o causando a alguien un perjuicio patrimonial, se le aplicarán de dos a ocho años de prisión y de cuarenta a ciento sesenta días multa."

It means that in order to be guilty of extortion one has to, without having a right to it, to oblige another to give,to do, to avoid doing or to tolerate something, obtaining gain for himself or other or causing someone financial damage.

Now, if we apply this article to the fact of our case, it is obvious that Milena did not post this tape to force Gustavo to do or avoid doing something and neither did she obtain a gain from it nor caused financial damage.

Moreover, Leticia herself said in a previous episode that the only thing Milena could be charged with is privacy violation, which, in PASL universe, is only punished by a heavy fine.
In real Mexican law, violation of privacy is not even a criminal offense, but a tort-a wrongful act or an infringement of a right (other than under contract) leading to civil legal liability.
According to article 1916 of Codigo Civil Federal: "Por daño moral se entiende la afectación que una persona sufre en sus sentimientos, afectos, creencias, decoro, honor, reputación, vida privada, configuración y aspecto físicos, o bien en la consideración que de sí misma tienen los demás. Se presumirá que hubo daño moral cuando se vulnere o menoscabe ilegítimamente la libertad o la integridad física o psíquica de las personas".
So, there is only civil legal liability for violation of privacy according to Mexican law (maybe there is a specific offense regarding what Milena did (posting a private video online) but I couldn't find it).


Irene


 

Copied and reposted:

Anonymous said...
According to presumption of innocence, which is a fundamental basis of criminal law in Mexico, a person is innocent until proven guilty. In consequence, it is up to the accusing party to prove beyond reasonable doubt that a crime was committed.

In our case, Leticia definitely did not prove that Milena extorted Gustavo. Both Isabel's and Bricardo's testimonies were of no value whatsoever as far as the extortion charge is concerned and I don't understand why on earth would they play that video, since nothing in it could prove or disprove extortion. It has to be understood that the existence of the video was not contested and neither was the fact that Milena made it public. The only thing that was contested was whether by sending the video Milena extorted Gustavo.
Moreover, Gustavo himself in his testimony did not even claim that Milena extorted him.
There is no way that any judge would have found a defendant guilty of extortion without a shred of evidence. The trial was not about proving that Milena is a skank or the fact that she posted a private video online, the trial was about proving that she committed a crime of extortion. Furthermore, the judge should have given motives for his sentence. He should have explained how he came to the conclusion that Milena is guilty, and no, he can't say that he decided to convict because the poor aggrieved wife cried in his courtroom and the prosecutor wore an enticingly tight dress.

And I am not even going to go into the whole Leticia the family law attorney charging someone with a federal crime and prosecuting it, when it is the job of the Ministerio Publico.

I get it that Milena did something very unbecoming and should have been punished for it to the full extent of the law, but being sent to prison for 2 years for a crime she didn't commit is a serious miscarriage of justice and no one deserves that.

Irene

P.S. is removed due to sensitivity of information. We do not reveal these sources.
 

Irene--
You are a most welcome commenter to the Caray Patio and we want you to keep on adding to the fun of watching and interpreting Spanish-speaking telenovelas. Many of us use the excuse that we are trying to improve our Spanish while hiding the fact that we really enjoy watching the daily trials and tribulations of a cast of characters with complicated story lines.

A lot of us have been on for years and if there is one thing we have learned, it's that Univision regularly skims our blogs. How do we know this? Well, when someone posts where we can watch future episodes, they are immediately taken down. Even something as vague as YouTube. Could we ask you to please, in the future, refrain from mentioning any locations?

Univision wants to keep the rights to their broadcast a monopoly as long as possible and that is why they finally cried "uncle" and started putting up episodes as soon as the next day--which doesn't help some of the recappers. But ni modo. We hope you understand our dilemma--we wish to bring you a recap of the episode as soon as possible, so we devotees can start reading and commenting with our morning coffee.

By the bye, it would be wonderful if you would sign up for a blog account since you are now family. You don't have to use your real name, but you will be asked to give a working e-mail address.

With kind regards,
Anita (who doubles as a very poor sub-administrator and recapper).
 

Irene--I did not remove your post script. Each recapper can do so on her own blog.
 

Whew--Irene gave us a really good lesson about extortion vs. invasion of privacy and criminal trial procedure vs. civil. Does anyone think that Mexicans and others watching telenovelas actually believe these legal short cuts in telenovela law are actually true? Hmmm.
 

I'd like to know the answer to that one. When the original Law & Order aired many lawyers posted to IMDb's message board about legal fictions in that series and where lawyers went wrong, got out of line, etc.

Most people in the USA are aware that criminal trials are rarely as interesting and almost never as juicy as the ones that were on that series. Due to my history of having been a crime victim I will never get to sit on a criminal trial jury but if I had become a lawyer(I did think about it back in the day but couldn't afford law school) I would have been just as intimidating during cross-examination as Jack McCoy.

Getting back to our episode, the trial should have been a tort case demanding punitive damages and a formal apology, neither of which Milena would have given. Nor would she have obeyed a restraining order. Could the judge have ordered her sent to a manicomio based on her courtroom behavior? I also came to believe that her lawyer encouraged that behavior so that it would rattle Gustavo and Isabel.
 

Well Urban it did rattle them, but it
Also rattled Mel into prison where she does Not belong. Now they need to make this up her. Let her be pregnant and brakeout, Have the baby, leave said baby on their door step,and Run. Well everything else is screwed up about this situation so why not let her have that. They sent her to prison on bogus charges so let her have that.
Of course the writers aren't listening
To me, or any of us for that matter.

Anita Iam one that don't watch for the
Spanish,lol. I watch cuz the people R
So beautiful to look at. And I love The way they get to the end of the situation. The soaps over here,the bad
Go on for years and never get their
Anvils. Case in point: Victor Newman
Would have died years ago, and he is still destroying lives, Erica cane would have been pushed down the windin
Staircase of her Immaculate mansion by one of her many millionaire husband's wives she stole back in the 80s.I like the slaps when they're nessessary &
The endings. Now I like these soaps here too.
Now if we can just get the ball Rollin
With ale,ric,Carlos,elena. And asslan.
This week will probably be a turning
For Vega & Associates. Looking forward
To it.
Irene, I'm lookin forward to more of your astute knowledge of the law so we all know how bad these people screwing up in the courtroom. They should have had someone on a legal research team so that the viewers would understand a little bit more about what's going on with these lawyers in the courtroom, because they seem to have repositioned everything. Family Court Lawyers being prosecutors and charging folks with bogus charges sending people to prison for things they didn't do. I'm gonna
Enjoy that bar fight tomorrow night.
 

Anita, as they say, a road to hell is paved with good intentions. My intentions were purely altruistic, but I failed to consider the bigger picture. I promise to never mention this information again.

Maybe Televisa will read this blog too and finally hire a legal consultant? I volunteer, free of charge.

Urban, as far as contempt of court is concerned, I couldn't find such offense in the Codigo Penal Federal. This, however, doesn't mean that this concept is foreign to Mexican law.

It is very possible that one of the articles concerning "Desobediencia y resistencia de particulares" is constructively interpreted to include contempt of court. I, unfortunately, have no access to Mexican jurisprudence to be able to ascertain this.

Article 178 of Codigo Penal Federal states the following:"Al que, sin causa legítima ...desobedeciere un mandato legítimo de la autoridad, se le aplicarán de quince a doscientas jornadas de trabajo en favor de la comunidad".
It means that whoever, without legitimate cause, disobeys a legitimate command issued by the authority, will be punished by 15-200 days of community service.
I can see judges using this article to punish a failure to heed to their orders during proceedings, but of course it is only a speculation on my part.

Irene



 

Nina, in a classical telenovela, your scenario of pregnancy and prison break is exactly what would happen to Milena. However, with Milena's bad luck in this telenovela, I doubt she would be able to escape from prison or maybe she would be caught and sentenced to additional thirty years(even though Mexican law doesn't punish inmates that escape from prison unless someone got hurt during the escape or the escapee aided another person to escape).

I wouldn't want this poor woman to also deal with pregnancy and giving birth while serving time in Mexican prison. From human rights reports that I read about incarcerated pregnant women, the prenatal care they receive is very poor and the mortality rate of newborns is much higher then in general population. Both the mothers and the babies suffer high amounts of stress and anxiety and the conditions in Mexican prisons are definitely not appropriate for raising a child.

The recent Ley Nacional de Ejecución Penal, which established the norms that must be observed during imprisonment, recognizes that women have specific needs and problems, therefore the detention centers will have all the necessary measures to address them and resolve them. In addition, the law allows mothers to keep their children in the penitentiary with them until they reach three years of age.
In practice, however, almost nothing changed regarding treatment of pregnant inmates and it is still very dangerous to be pregnant while incarcerated.

Irene
 

Bless you for doing all this research Irene. I can't think of anything more tragic than trying to carry a pregnancy to term in prison. And then trying to care for the baby after that. Motherhood is daunting under the best of circumstances.
 

JudyB, motherhood is daunting indeed. I can't even imagine the despair of a mother that is separated from her child when he turns 3. And how terrifying for the poor children, after having such a terrible start in life, to also be ripped from their mothers arms and taken to unfamiliar places to be cared by people they often never met before and they are just toddlers who can't understand why their mother, who was all their world, is suddenly not there anymore.

Irene
 

Despite the legal misinformation in this series I have no pity whatsoever for Milena. She has no dignity and she was intentionally and visciously hurting Isabel in her sick quest to corral Gustavo. Luis almost saw the video as well. That is likely what provoked the judge's decision. As I pointed out before, there was a better case to present.

If she is pregnant -- only likely because she once mentioned babies and might have used that as entrapment -- that will be a disaster for Gustavo in addition to being monumentally unfair to the child.

Thus far we haven't had a news anchor talk about this on the air, but while sexual misconduct in men is winked at in many countries Milena would likely be raked over the coals. To be The Other Woman doesn't have to mean one is a stupid slut, but that is what she is.
 

Irene--Nice gig if you can get it--spend a few weeks in Mexico, on location, rubbing elbows with favorite celebrities, arguing with the script writers, what's not to like--unless they decide they can make you "work from home."

JudyB & Irene--We've had at least two earlier tns I watched that dealt with this: Un Camino Hacia el Destino and YNCELH. In Un Camino, at least, Fernanda was able to give her baby to her father to take care of until she got out of prison.
 

Well, the 24/7 of parenthood would be amplified a gazillion times by raising your child in one small cell. Even Mother Teresa would find that daunting! Nowhere to go for those all important "time outs". In real life, I would hope that other inmates would step up to help if a mother was going crazy, but is charity and compassion rampant in prison? There's always at least one "good soul" in these stories, but what is the case in real life where all the women are under stress? I'm surprised that anyone survives.
 

Urban, I agree with you that Milena is far from being a blanca paloma. She has no dignity and is most definitely a floozy, but I do pity her for having to endure 2 years in Mexican prison, when ultimately everything that happened was Gustavo's fault.

Gustavo used her for sex, willingly made several sex tapes with her(and probably initiated them too) and then discarded her like a dirty kleenex, with an outrageous excuse that it is for her own good. She was scorned and though her reaction was outrageous and she deserved to be punished, incarceration is too extreme a punishment for what she did and if she is pregnant, then the her poor innocent child is going to suffer too (in addition to having Gustavo and Milena for parents). Even Isabel was indignant that Gustavo would want to imprison the woman with whom he had a year long affair.

Irene
 

Anita, giving the child to a relative to care for is certainly possible. The problem is that if the mother has no relatives willing to care for the child, then the child goes to an orphanage until the mother gets out of prison and this is a heartbreaking situation to both the mother and the child. I think Milena doesn't have relatives (or friends) since nobody came to support her during the proceedings.

JudyB, I am now watching Enemigo Intimo. Most of the plot takes place in a mixed-gender prison and the female part of this prison is so horrific(vicious bullying and abuse, predatory inmates forcing themselves on newbies, guards raping and murdering inmates etc...) I doubt Milena or anyone else would last a day there. There is no way a pregnant inmate would give birth to a healthy child under such circumstances. Of course, it's probably a bit more extreme than what really happens, but I doubt that Mexican prisons are filled with nice grandmotherly ladies that would gladly take care of your infant, all the while protecting you and dispensing good advice.

Irene


Irene
 

When we think back to the original idea for prisons...as an alternative to harsh physical punishments or executions, how sad that it has become a hell on earth instead. I believe there is one country that has a prison system that actually rehabilitates inmates...somewhere in the Netherlands I believe. A campus like atmosphere with real job trainig etc. They floated the idea here but those in charge countered that it was not punitive enough and would never work in our country.
 

Milena used Gustavo for money. Not big money as far as we can see, but did she even have a job? We were never told that. As for her boasts about having children would that be a guarantee that he wouldn't leave her once she lost her figure? She didn't know that.

She was an idiot.

"For your own good" in this case meant that since he was never going to leave Isabel for her he was breaking up with her so she could find someone else, someone available. Not an ideal way to go about it, certainly, but I don't see that he led her on.

As far as the sex videos go we don't know who initiated them. He was absolutely foolish to trust her with them. If not for Isabel and Luis I wouldn't care how much the exposure would hurt him.

If there is any publicity no man would ever trust Milena after this and she might finish her days cleaning toilets at midnight in office buildings.

I am still wondering whether her lawyer encouraged her embarrassing behavior in the courtroom. He wasn't doing anything to stop her.
 

...and at the end of the trial, Bric congratulated Leti on "una buena defensa." Wait: weren't they the accusers? Nobody knows what's going on around here.

The one I feel sorry for this week, though, is poor Flaco the Man-Bun. He specifically asked Roberto not to do anything -- "I don't want any trouble" -- and Roberto assured him that "all we want to do is talk to him." Then all hell breaks loose. Those generous tips aren't going to do him much good if he loses his job.
 

Blue Lass, I suppose "great defense" sounds better than "great groundless and undue prosecution". This episode was so absurd, my triple strength cutting edge beanie couldn't handle it.

Irene
 

Urban, I doubt Milena's behavior was due to her defense attorney's strategy, since he probably didn't have one. He was outright useless and a first grader would have done a better job of defending Milena. All he did was mumbling "no hubo dolo" on every occasion when the question was not whether or not the tape was published with malice, but whether it was in order to extort Gustavo. Even if the "prosecution" would have managed to prove that Milena published the tape to hurt Gustavo, it wouldn't have helped to establish that extortion was committed or attempted. This stellar defense attorney never asked any of the witnesses for the "prosecution" the only important question in this trial :" Did you witness the defendant extorting Gustavo over the sex tape". The answer would have been a resounding no from every single one of the witnesses, including Gustavo himself. Then, in his closing arguments he could have mentioned the presumption of innocence, the fact that the prosecution is completely groundless and there is no evidence whatsoever that a crime was committed and maybe even pointed out that we are dealing here with a malicious prosecution, brought on by a vindictive ex.

Irene

 

I too feel bad for Milena getting two years behind bars. Recklessly sending that tape to Gustavo's home where his 10 year old could see it (though she intended it for Issabela) was the worst thing she did. Thankfully, he didn't see it. The state will waste money keeping someone behind bars who is not violent and not a physical threat to society. I prefer she be forced to do community service, have a curfew, and get some counseling. If she must do time behind bars, maybe a few months.

Milena's attorney was ridiculous, even asking Issabela if she and Gustavo had made a sex tape, and claiming that Gustavo was just exploring his sexuality. All nothing to do with Milena making private tapes public without consent.
 

In order to save Irene's beanie from melting her brain cells, the only solution to the "legal" problems in PASL is to have all the courtroom stuff done off camera (or at least until Televisa can get it right) and concentrate on the triumphant return of the attorneys to the offices, congrats, celebrations, pairing off, interpersonal relations and fighting tooth and nail for a better position within the firm, backstabbing and bedding included. (How's that for a run-on sentence...)
 

Niecie, you are spot on about a waste of money to keep someone like Milena behind bars. That's why only prosecutors, which are supposed to be impartial professionals, have the power to decide whether a given case warrants a criminal prosecution. Often, charges are not filed even with good evidence, because the case simply doesn't warrant the waste of time and resources, both judicial and penitentiary, especially if we are talking about offenses that are of no interest to the general public or first time non violent offenders. For the same reasons, plea bargaining is so very common, even in case with a solid evidentiary basis.

Of course, the contrary is also true- even if the victim wants to drop charges, it is not up to her to do so. It is the discretionary power of the prosecutor, and very often we can see this conflict in domestic violence cases, where the victims beg the prosecutor to drop charges because children need their father/he promised not to do this again/ he is the sole provider etc...

Anita, I think PASL without all the legal stuff would only run for maybe another 30 episodes and those 30 episodes would be so boring (based on the pattern of almost complete lack of bedding/fighting/backstabbing and villainy in general in this telenovela) that everyone would stop watching. So I am willing to sacrifice my beanie and brain cells for the greater good, occasionally venting my frustration through boring exegesis of the applicable law .

Irene

 

I don't allow anyone to take photos of me that aren't necessary for legal identification or my headshot on Meetup.com because I am an organizer. The reason for this is that once it's e-mailed or posted out of your own possession you lose control of it. Therefore, this entire story is probably intended as a PSA about the risk of making sex tapes and taking nude photos. There have been actors whose sex tapes and nude shots caused temporary setbacks in their careers. I can only imagine what such things can do to a family law attorney.

Based on Mexican machismo in the age of #Metoo, this could go either way for Gustavo.


 

Gustavo is pathetic. He showed his desperation, again, with Isy on the way out of the courtroom. For a formerly virile, handsome leading man, the actor playing Gustavo is doing a fantastic job pulling himself into a depressing, "poor me" character.

Irene--I have such mixed feelings about non-prosecutions, plea bargaining and settlements. Where I worked, it was the city's money. Their mantra was (and is, I presume) do whatever is possible to avoid a trial. This principle was based (for us) on the absolute impossibility of getting the necessary documents to form the defense or prosecution out of the various agencies in a timely manner. Trials alone cost many, many $$$ that a settlement was the better bargain, even if the case didn't merit it (or regardless of the seriousness). Some of the trial cases we had went on for 15 or more years, especially if we lost and had more than just money imposed (such as court orders to improve care in hospitals, special education in schools, etc.) I am actually ok with this strategy.

Now that I'm retired and keeping an eye on our town's crime statistics, the damage caused by vandals, drunk drivers, drug use and distribution, auto thefts, household break-ins, street robbers (with guns or knives), spousal abuse, etc., makes me wish they could throw the book at these miscreants....and this is considered a safe town!

I guess coming from an urban planning background I believe in the broken window theory. Go after the small stuff before it gets to be bigger stuff. Regrettably, the statistics are against us. I don't know what it is now, so this is purely anecdotal, but the number of cases dismissed or not prosecuted or settled make the base of a huge pyramid for every ONE criminal convicted and sent to prison. Still, how sad is it that the U.S. has the highest number of incarcerated men and women in the whole world (that is, from 2013 data).
 

Anita, the problem with going after the small stuff before it gets to be bigger stuff is that our prisons are factories that produce toughened, more sophisticated and often irredeemable criminals.

Advocates of incarceration for every offence claim that the offender cannot reoffend while incarcerated; that the harsh reality of incarceration will cause the offender to never want to be incarcerated again and thus will prevent him from reoffending once released from prison and that the awareness of penalties will discourage potential offenders from choosing a life of crime.

However, prisons are top notch universities of crime and incarcerations can actually increase recidivism rates.
Statistics show that recidivism rates of people incarcerated for some categories of crimes reach as high as almost 80%.
And furthermore, the mark of Cain of being a convicted felon changes a person's life forever, try as he might to keep to the straight and narrow.

Therefore, for lower-level first time offenders, alternative sanctions might actually work better than incarceration to help them steer clear of criminal path and become productive members of society.

As far as plea bargaining is concerned, it is harshly criticized by legal scholars. They say that it endangers the correct legal outcome since threats, rewards and coercion are involved. People that might have been acquitted due to lack of evidence and are truly innocent, might plead to lesser charges due to buying into the prosecutor's bluffing regarding the available evidence and believing that they might actually be convicted of a more serious offense.When a guilty and an innocent party are charged as accomplices in a crime and a prosecutor offers a deal to the first one to confess, it is of the interest of the guilty party to confess and implicate the innocent one to get a deal.
In addition, the prosecutors, might coerce plea bargains to keep high conviction rates and defense attorneys might have an incentive to push for plea bargains if they operate on a flat fee basis, and by getting a plea bargain they will avoid the expenses associated with a trial.

Irene
 

Poor Irene! We need to all chip in for a beanie large enough for her to hide in. ;}
 

Blue Lass--I'm with you there!

Irene--So, D.A.s and prosecutors don't always have clean hands!

I am fully aware of prisons being educational centers for graduating "better" criminals. Also am in sympathy regarding people, especially men of color, emerging from prisons with a life sentence of being an ex-con. I was a little fast and furious with my condemnation of throwing the book at minor offenders. What we need are 1) better opportunities for employment in communities that engender crime; 2) community service "sentences" with intensive monitoring; 3) counseling, medical and mental health support services; 4) better nutrition; 5) better education 6) parenting classes--in other words, EVERYTHING a society has to offer to build successful, self confident, law-abiding youth. It takes money and commitment. How are we going to do it without either. Here I've been referring to violent opportunistic crimes. White-collar crime is in a much different category. Sorry, I'll get off my soap box.

See you all tomorrow.
 

Irene, it is really good of you to go
Through all of this with us. This must feel like practicing law again to your
Brain, explaining all this complicated
Law Jorgen. What this shows me is that
this is for effect. The writers and
Producers don't seem to care if this is being done right or not. Just make
It look like they know what they're
Doing, ya know? Surface stuff.And if I
Didn't read what you were saying Irene
I'd say they had all their ducks in a row.
But they just hamhawked a woman with
Charges for something she didn't do,&
Now she's gonna be sitting in a prison
Cell and quite possibly pregnant which
I hope is not the case. And all for effect. Because she's considered to be the Home wrecker. Well she didn't wreck the home by herself, it was an inside Job. I don't like her or what she did, but She didn't do it by herself. I don't Think Gus should be welcomed back home while Mel sits in prison on a trumped up charge of some thing she didn't do.But she should be
Punished, but this a bit harsh, I also
Agree with community service.Or public
Apology since she publicly harassed
Isabel.