Thursday, September 10, 2020
Weekend Discussion, Sept. 10, 2020: The Evolution of Telenovelas
The following topic is brought to you from someone who has been “away” for a few years (since 2015??). Please help me in welcoming back HELLASHELLE!!!
Hi CarayCaray! Former returning Patio Peep here, eager to get your opinions on a Weekend Discussion: The Evolution of Telenovelas. As someone who has watched a good number of TNs over decades, but has been away from TNs for a few years, I find that they seem to be in the midst of a stark shift. While TNs of the 1990s-2010s seemed to fall into broad categories (family/child, teen, traditional), the dominant Romantic TN That used to rule prime time seems to be giving way to a new breed that is remarkably different. There is plenty to unpack here but to kick it off; I’d like to point out several threads...
Broad Themes: Along those lines, the broad and clear cut themes
that used to be present in virtually every TN have given way to shades of gray.
We used to have love, revenge, and deep religious/cultural traditions as
scaffolds for most TNs. Virginal and naive damsels have moved rapidly through
being strong female heroines still focused on love to today’s leading ladies,
still wanting love but also clearly aware that it must sometimes take a back
seat to careers.
The settings: It seems like it’s been a while since the rancho,
hacienda or tiny pueblo has been the primary locale for a TN. Even those that
may start there seem to quickly move to and remain in a city.
The casts and characterizations: though TNs have always had rich
casts, the focus now seems to fall more evenly among cast members. Rather than
“heroes/villains” and “everybody else”, casts are more fully ensembles, with
“side” characters having weightier storylines that are given more time and far
fewer characters that are relegated to “comic relief”. While we almost never
saw divorced characters as leads twenty years ago (widows or deceased loves
seemed far more common), today’s TNs will now make the nitty, gritty of divorce
a primary plot, even taking us into the settlement sessions rather than simply
using the “I’ll never give you a divorce!” tactic to keep romantic leads apart
for most of the show before dramatically killing off a the villainous ex.
Production: the very look and feel of TNs has changed significantly. Shot more
like movies than TV shows, many of them have a closer feel, with tighter camera
shots making it feel as though the crews are in real buildings and not in sets.
Even the color palettes seem set to cooler filters to correspond with the “real
world” aesthetic.
Even costumes have evolved both visually and in thematic
functionality. While characters often used to have very distinct costume cues,
those have now become far more subtle. I think of the color coded costumes of En Nombre Del Amor where Carlota was
always in shades of purple representing royalty, Romina lived in green (envy),
Paloma in yellow/white (innocence), Camila in red (passion) etc. Or the way
Valentina’s chic feminine clothes and long hair gave way to low buttoned shirts
with corsets, jeans and a cowboy hat to represent her transition to hardened
boss-lady in Soy Tu Dueña or the
similar costuming for Lucrecia in Mi
Pecado. All of those compared to Medicos
where the cast, quite logically, is almost always in scrubs. Have you all
noticed these shifts? Do they make the shows more relatable and realistic? Did
the old cues make it easier for you to understand plots and storylines by
helping you keep track of characters or their roles in a story?
While
there is a world of topics to discuss, that’s all I have for now. Please dive
in!
HellaShelle
Labels: telemundo, telenovelas, Univision, weekend
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Hey HellaShelle!!
I haven't watched TNs in the last couple of years, but among the last few TNs I did watch, I noticed that the obligatory "protagonista gets a new hairdo to match her change of attitude" is no longer obligatory. You used to be able to count on it, and now you can't. Maybe this means that the producers have enough faith in their lead actresses to show the "change of attitude" without a change of hair.
I haven't watched TNs in the last couple of years, but among the last few TNs I did watch, I noticed that the obligatory "protagonista gets a new hairdo to match her change of attitude" is no longer obligatory. You used to be able to count on it, and now you can't. Maybe this means that the producers have enough faith in their lead actresses to show the "change of attitude" without a change of hair.
Hi, Julie, so nice to see you here. I loved your Well written explanation of the changing telenovela. I have been watching telenovelas for about 13 years. I don't speak Spanish , but after my mother died , I was surfing channels looking for some distraction and found Alborado. It was my first telenovela and a perfect distraction at a sad, difficult time in my life.
Through the next years, I enjoyed the historical romances...Amor Real, Pasion .Then , I chose other novelas just to spend time with the folks I had met here at Caray. I was busy with work and babysitting our grandchildren , and watching telenovelas and chatting with patio peeps were pleasant ways to decompress after a long day of real life. It was comforting to see the good rewarded and the bad punished in the end. I also liked the close families because I grew up in a big, close extended family, and there was always one older couple in a strong, happy marriage to advise and support the younger generation . Those themes seem to be disappearing . I think the stress and struggle and changing values of real life have seeped into telenovelas .
Through the next years, I enjoyed the historical romances...Amor Real, Pasion .Then , I chose other novelas just to spend time with the folks I had met here at Caray. I was busy with work and babysitting our grandchildren , and watching telenovelas and chatting with patio peeps were pleasant ways to decompress after a long day of real life. It was comforting to see the good rewarded and the bad punished in the end. I also liked the close families because I grew up in a big, close extended family, and there was always one older couple in a strong, happy marriage to advise and support the younger generation . Those themes seem to be disappearing . I think the stress and struggle and changing values of real life have seeped into telenovelas .
Permalink posted by 
: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 1:05:00 PM EDT
: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 1:05:00 PM EDT
Howdy Steve, Susanlynn, all.
I have noticed what Susanlynn describes. I am pretty sure there was even a TN in which someone dissed his or her mother and DIDN'T die (but I can't remember which one). In a way it is sad for some of these things to fall by the wayside, but on the other hand, it is good to acknowledge some of the ways of the real world.
Though I still want the bad guys to perish horribly. That must never change. I need to see reliable justice somewhere in my life, even if it is only in fiction!
I have noticed what Susanlynn describes. I am pretty sure there was even a TN in which someone dissed his or her mother and DIDN'T die (but I can't remember which one). In a way it is sad for some of these things to fall by the wayside, but on the other hand, it is good to acknowledge some of the ways of the real world.
Though I still want the bad guys to perish horribly. That must never change. I need to see reliable justice somewhere in my life, even if it is only in fiction!
Wonderful topic HellaShelle. You put a lot of thought into your exposition. And anything that brings our long-lost Julie back to comment is always appreciated.
I miss the old-style telenovelas. I loved the importance of the local priest, the cohesion of the family, the respect of one's elders and the clear-cut sense of values. I "get" that the new style telenovela is meant to be more reflective of actual mores. But the reality of multiple divorces, miserable marriages and murky morals is all around us. We don't need to see it on TV. I'm in favor of returning to the old "adult fairy tale" approach, but I'm not in the demographic the networks are shooting for.
But at least they're still talking Spanish! And for that reason, I'll keep watching.
I miss the old-style telenovelas. I loved the importance of the local priest, the cohesion of the family, the respect of one's elders and the clear-cut sense of values. I "get" that the new style telenovela is meant to be more reflective of actual mores. But the reality of multiple divorces, miserable marriages and murky morals is all around us. We don't need to see it on TV. I'm in favor of returning to the old "adult fairy tale" approach, but I'm not in the demographic the networks are shooting for.
But at least they're still talking Spanish! And for that reason, I'll keep watching.
Julie..yes, "reliable justice" seems to be in short supply in the real-world .
P.s. I do love that photo .
P.s. I do love that photo .
Permalink posted by : Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 3:45:00 PM EDT
: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 3:45:00 PM EDT
Judy, I suppose there is a legitimate fear that people won't want to watch telenovelas if they can't relate to the people in them. But I think it's still important to have some "ideals" (characters) to look up to.
On a slightly different note, I think there has been a trend where the heroine being "innocent" and "pure" does not have to mean "gullible" and "stupid." I especially liked that about Hotel de los Secretos. On the other hand, in that Vino TN (I forget the name, was it Vino Amor?) the heroine was just exasperating.
On a slightly different note, I think there has been a trend where the heroine being "innocent" and "pure" does not have to mean "gullible" and "stupid." I especially liked that about Hotel de los Secretos. On the other hand, in that Vino TN (I forget the name, was it Vino Amor?) the heroine was just exasperating.
The bigest change i noticed in telenovelas is the complete absence of traditional villains in most of the recent ones.Before, we used to have a clear antagonist in every telenovela,often more than one, and the conflict between the protagonists and villains was what drove the telenovela. The villains used to have interesting personal history, valid motivation for their villainy, and mostly they were fun to watch and we were eager to see what are they going to do next to our protagonists. We hated them with a vengeance, but that's what made the telenovelas so fun. I still remember great villains like Lafont from Pasion,dona Juana from Alborada, tia Carloca from ENDA,Marcial from Entre el Amor y el Odio, every villain portrayed by Cristian Bach and Sergio Goyri and so many more wonderfully entertaining baddies.And now, now we have entire telenovelas without a single villain or villains that have no motivation other than they are criminals and that's what criminals do. PASL for example had no real villain in season 1 (whiny ex wife manipulating the protagonist using her children does not count). I didn't watch latest Osorio offerings, but from what I gleaned from browsing Caray, his "villains" are mostly teenagers with bad attitude, old ladies with bad characters and various secondary characters whose worst sin is being selfish or boring or failing at parenthood.
Permalink posted by : Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 4:29:00 PM EDT
: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 4:29:00 PM EDT
Another change I noticed is the demise of a traditional male protagonist. Gone are the days of the dashing if misguided hero. Now, our protagonists are cheating and somehow it is o.k, no biggie. They do nothing to win the female protagonist's heart and yet somehow they fall head over heels in love with them. They are boring, they dress in red or pink pants and garish blouses and spend most of the time believing the worst about their love interest and/or being momma's boy and/or my favorite, doing absolutely nothing but whining about how the protagonist "burlo de mis sentimientos".
Permalink posted by : Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 4:45:00 PM EDT
: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 4:45:00 PM EDT
Anonymous....all good points. I would love another good historical romance, but those are long gone never to return . I am sure.
Permalink posted by : Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:05:00 PM EDT
: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 5:05:00 PM EDT
Like susanlynn I miss those swashbuckling, historical novelas featuring Fernando Colunga. He was especially good in Amor Real, starting out as the illegitimate child of the owner of a hacienda, who suffered from being looked down upon because he was half indigenous. His stormy, on again and off again relationship with Mathilde (Adela Noriega) wrenched our hearts again and again.
I also remember En Nombre de Amor. I didn't remember all the colors HellaShelle described, but the purple..oh yes! I really enjoyed that novela.
Not sure why they've gone off rancho novelas, apparently indefinitely. One I loved on Telemundo was Doña Bárbara which wasn't on a hacienda in Mexico, but rather took place on the llanos of Venezuela. Christian Meier was fantastic on that one as was Edith González, QEPD.
Thanks, Anon, for mentioning Sergio Goyri. We in Telemundoland had the pleasure of some of his excellence in villainy in Falsa Identidad. He's a real pro.
I also remember En Nombre de Amor. I didn't remember all the colors HellaShelle described, but the purple..oh yes! I really enjoyed that novela.
Not sure why they've gone off rancho novelas, apparently indefinitely. One I loved on Telemundo was Doña Bárbara which wasn't on a hacienda in Mexico, but rather took place on the llanos of Venezuela. Christian Meier was fantastic on that one as was Edith González, QEPD.
Thanks, Anon, for mentioning Sergio Goyri. We in Telemundoland had the pleasure of some of his excellence in villainy in Falsa Identidad. He's a real pro.
Novelera, Dona Barbara was a wild ride. Edith was fierce in that one..
Permalink posted by : Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 9:10:00 PM EDT
: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 9:10:00 PM EDT
Hi all!
It's so nice to be back on the Patio. I don't have the time I used to, but jumping back onto the TN wagon was jarring when I saw all of these changes! I'm so glad there is a place to discuss these changes.
Currently, I'm only following Medicos. I find it intriguing, but I too miss the simplicity of the "old school" TN. That being said, I appreciate the more balanced drama (as opposed to over the top melodrama). Before coming back to current TNs, I revisited some TNs I saw in the past, the most pertinent being Triunfo del Amor. The huge difference in the whiny, repetitive character Livia Brito played there vs her much stronger, much more focused character in Medicos really highlighted just how different these new age TNs are.
I hadn't yet noted the demise of the traditional male protagonist, but it's a great point Anon 4:45. So far I've appreciated those in Medicos (though the costuming is less jarring than other TNs it seems). Emotionally, they're not all that different from some of those I remember: they still seem incapable of talking through misunderstandings and get their feelings hurt even when they've been less than clear about them. Physically, though, they are far less imposing (but maybe that's just because I got used to shirtless Fernando Colunga and Cristian de la Fuente?? ;)
It is weird to see much weaker family ties though. I was very used to Tias and Tios and Primos etc, so these small family units, while probably more in tune with today's families (at least in the US), have me missing those central families.
Before I forget, thanks for posting, RGV Chick! And thanks for your comments, Patio Peeps!
It's so nice to be back on the Patio. I don't have the time I used to, but jumping back onto the TN wagon was jarring when I saw all of these changes! I'm so glad there is a place to discuss these changes.
Currently, I'm only following Medicos. I find it intriguing, but I too miss the simplicity of the "old school" TN. That being said, I appreciate the more balanced drama (as opposed to over the top melodrama). Before coming back to current TNs, I revisited some TNs I saw in the past, the most pertinent being Triunfo del Amor. The huge difference in the whiny, repetitive character Livia Brito played there vs her much stronger, much more focused character in Medicos really highlighted just how different these new age TNs are.
I hadn't yet noted the demise of the traditional male protagonist, but it's a great point Anon 4:45. So far I've appreciated those in Medicos (though the costuming is less jarring than other TNs it seems). Emotionally, they're not all that different from some of those I remember: they still seem incapable of talking through misunderstandings and get their feelings hurt even when they've been less than clear about them. Physically, though, they are far less imposing (but maybe that's just because I got used to shirtless Fernando Colunga and Cristian de la Fuente?? ;)
It is weird to see much weaker family ties though. I was very used to Tias and Tios and Primos etc, so these small family units, while probably more in tune with today's families (at least in the US), have me missing those central families.
Before I forget, thanks for posting, RGV Chick! And thanks for your comments, Patio Peeps!
Permalink posted by : Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 9:15:00 PM EDT
: Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 9:15:00 PM EDT
My opinion and observations about the overall industry: There has been a big shake up in executives of programming at Univision-Televisa, Telemundo. TV Azteca, etc. The production budgets gave been cut, writers have changed and there has been a shift to a shorter Netflix like story line and time frames. There are new production companies, long term exclusive contracts with actors are not being renewed. The actors and actresses are opting to try new kinds of projects. You can tell by the recent wave of narco-trafficico novelas, that have also appeared on Netflix, other streaming services and online. As I observe there are more options and the targets are more specific. They still have the Rosa de Guadalupe market, but the demographic targets are narrower, which can be harder to fund. I know in Mexico there are plenty of channels that show all the classics, such as Alborrada, Amor Real, Pasion, etc. There are constant reruns of "Tres Mujeres" and others. Whenever I go to a large mercado, the vendors frequently have little b/w sets tuned into what ever is re-running. Great conversation starter if you've seen the novela in the states. Then you can chisme about the story. The vendors like the nostalgia of the more traditional shows.
The overall market, marketing, product and producers are evolving and trying to grab their share of revenue, which has been falling. It is the same for te US entertainment market.
I would like to see more good original novelas, about 60 episodes (therefore not as vulnerable to Univision-scissorhands) with a well written and acted script. I liked the different kind of story of " La Candidata","El Hotel de Los Secretos" "La Bella y las Bestias" among others that had compelling stories and had diverse casts. I am not a fan of the Turkish imports and have trouble with the Brazilian to Spanish translations, but try if the story is interesting.
Long time lurker, minimal commenter
The overall market, marketing, product and producers are evolving and trying to grab their share of revenue, which has been falling. It is the same for te US entertainment market.
I would like to see more good original novelas, about 60 episodes (therefore not as vulnerable to Univision-scissorhands) with a well written and acted script. I liked the different kind of story of " La Candidata","El Hotel de Los Secretos" "La Bella y las Bestias" among others that had compelling stories and had diverse casts. I am not a fan of the Turkish imports and have trouble with the Brazilian to Spanish translations, but try if the story is interesting.
Long time lurker, minimal commenter
SFChicaBonita, thank you for that information . Very interesting .
Permalink posted by : Friday, September 11, 2020 at 9:15:00 AM EDT
: Friday, September 11, 2020 at 9:15:00 AM EDT
Great topic! Thank you, HellaShelle.
Telenovelas probably needed to evolve, just like English language entertainment has. When I think about Leave it to Beaver, My Three Sons, Donna Reed show, etc., those just won’t fly in prime time, nowadays. However, most of what currently passes for a TV family sit-com does not appeal to me, either. And I do not watch any so-called “reality” shows or competitions. Not all my tastes have evolved with the entertainment world. So I’ve been reading more and watching less.
Julie – good point about the change in hair! I’ve noticed the same thing.
The village Padre, often the “voice of reason” , has disappeared from newer telenovelas.
And good points already raised about how our protagonists, both male and female, are quite different from ye good old days. They seem to reflect more real-life people and less the fairytale folk. (I like fairytales. Drama is free and everywhere on the nightly TV news, which I rarely watch anymore for my own sanity. Even local news has gotten frustrating, depressing, stress-inducing, etc., so I don’t watch and my blood pressure appreciates that. )
The narco-velas is a likely result of the evolution of trying to appeal to viewers’ tastes. It is apparently successful, since they’re still here. With so many options that viewers have to watch TV, I think the entertainment market has become diluted. When there were just a few networks, all the really good writers flocked to them. The talent was concentrated. Now they are spread out between a bazillion channels, streaming, etc. and seems to me like the talent has gotten watered down. Ah, well, enough of that. Times change and that, we can always count on.
The biggest thing I’ve noticed in telenovelas is that the actors no longer speak in clear neutral Spanish. I can mostly understand what they’re saying in the older Televisa telenovelas. That rule seems to have gone out the window and I cannot follow without the closed captions. Same thing has happened in English-speaking TV and movies, so it’s not just the Spanish language productions. Or maybe I’m just getting older. LOL
Telenovelas probably needed to evolve, just like English language entertainment has. When I think about Leave it to Beaver, My Three Sons, Donna Reed show, etc., those just won’t fly in prime time, nowadays. However, most of what currently passes for a TV family sit-com does not appeal to me, either. And I do not watch any so-called “reality” shows or competitions. Not all my tastes have evolved with the entertainment world. So I’ve been reading more and watching less.
Julie – good point about the change in hair! I’ve noticed the same thing.
The village Padre, often the “voice of reason” , has disappeared from newer telenovelas.
And good points already raised about how our protagonists, both male and female, are quite different from ye good old days. They seem to reflect more real-life people and less the fairytale folk. (I like fairytales. Drama is free and everywhere on the nightly TV news, which I rarely watch anymore for my own sanity. Even local news has gotten frustrating, depressing, stress-inducing, etc., so I don’t watch and my blood pressure appreciates that. )
The narco-velas is a likely result of the evolution of trying to appeal to viewers’ tastes. It is apparently successful, since they’re still here. With so many options that viewers have to watch TV, I think the entertainment market has become diluted. When there were just a few networks, all the really good writers flocked to them. The talent was concentrated. Now they are spread out between a bazillion channels, streaming, etc. and seems to me like the talent has gotten watered down. Ah, well, enough of that. Times change and that, we can always count on.
The biggest thing I’ve noticed in telenovelas is that the actors no longer speak in clear neutral Spanish. I can mostly understand what they’re saying in the older Televisa telenovelas. That rule seems to have gone out the window and I cannot follow without the closed captions. Same thing has happened in English-speaking TV and movies, so it’s not just the Spanish language productions. Or maybe I’m just getting older. LOL
P.S. about struggling without that neutral spanish-speaking ... yes I had my hearing checked a few years ago and don't need hearing aids. LOL
I am finding this topic fascinating.and very educational because I have not been a great fan of telenovela dramas and have avoided most of them to instead concentrate on the comedies and dramedies. My first novela was PESE and the second was LFMB where the leading men were both morally compromised and only saved by the love of a good woman. Both of those novelas are quite old now. Only lately have I been watching a majority of dramas because there is nothing lighter being offered. I would say I am in the middle of my “rancho” phase LOL 🐎🐄🐂 having just seen LQNPA and currently watching STuD and “Mariana de la noche”, so I will be thinking a lot about what I am reading here.
That being said, I do see one theme present in most of the comedies/dramedies/dramas I have seen and that is the theme of poverty and what it forces people to do to survive. The decisions are fraught with moral dilemmas. That theme is always influenced by omnipresent classism.
I look forward to reading more comments.
That being said, I do see one theme present in most of the comedies/dramedies/dramas I have seen and that is the theme of poverty and what it forces people to do to survive. The decisions are fraught with moral dilemmas. That theme is always influenced by omnipresent classism.
I look forward to reading more comments.
Jarifa - ding ding ding ding ding! Give the lady a prize. Yes, poverty (or the fear of financial ruin) seems to be the most reliable TN theme - even when it is not the main theme in a TN it's always lurking in the background. And along with that goes the crooked justice system which favors the wealthy; I think that's a more recent trend? (last 10 years or so).
Doris..I am with you. The news is scary and depressing . I feel like I should stay informed , but for my own preservation and sanity , I only surf in and out for a few minutes now and then .
Permalink posted by : Friday, September 11, 2020 at 5:58:00 PM EDT
: Friday, September 11, 2020 at 5:58:00 PM EDT
♥️susanlynn - me, too. I see just enough on the internet, which does not traumatize me as much as TV news does.
What a great topic, HellaShelle!
I agree with Judy B and others who said they miss the traditional novelas. Maybe this is why I can't get into the newer ones for longer than a dozen of capitulos... they don't offer me the escape they once did, they don't help my shut off my brain for a little while anymore.
I don't like narco novelas because they really turn narcos into heroes and some of the new series types are too dark, too.
I know that times are changing and that's OK, but aside from the comedies (some of them NOT good at all) there seems to be little to no interest to more traditional settings, like the ranchos (I miss those the most) or the big mansions where everybody ends up living, the sirvienta is a big gossip, the head housekeeper has a secret son with the dueno, the mother is a nightmare, the sister is a little slutty, but redeemable, the male hero is a bit stupid (but so handsome) ...ah, the good old days...
Adriana Noel
I agree with Judy B and others who said they miss the traditional novelas. Maybe this is why I can't get into the newer ones for longer than a dozen of capitulos... they don't offer me the escape they once did, they don't help my shut off my brain for a little while anymore.
I don't like narco novelas because they really turn narcos into heroes and some of the new series types are too dark, too.
I know that times are changing and that's OK, but aside from the comedies (some of them NOT good at all) there seems to be little to no interest to more traditional settings, like the ranchos (I miss those the most) or the big mansions where everybody ends up living, the sirvienta is a big gossip, the head housekeeper has a secret son with the dueno, the mother is a nightmare, the sister is a little slutty, but redeemable, the male hero is a bit stupid (but so handsome) ...ah, the good old days...
Adriana Noel
Permalink posted by : Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 4:17:00 AM EDT
: Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 4:17:00 AM EDT
I totally agree about historical telenovelas with Susanlynn and about traditional telenovelas with Adriana Noel.I used to look forward to my telenovela fix, now not so much.I wish people bringing us telenovelas would realise that you don't fix what is not broken. Traditional and historical telenovelas worked really well for decades, providing a necessary escape from the boredom and hardships of daily life to millions of people all over the globe.I used to root for the main couple to finally overcome all the traditional obstacles(villains plotting, misunderstandings, family opposition etc..) to their love and was very much looking forward to the grandiose wedding and sailing into the sunset etc... before a Fin written in beautiful caligraphy appears on scree. Now,in most of them, I couldn't care less. The heros are all so bland and unromantic, often there is no chemistry between the leads, the romantic love is not important anymore and, to be honest, is ridiculous when it takes places in a narco novela(I couldn't care less about the love life of a drug lord), there are children everywhere all the time and even though I love children in real life,they almost alway ruin telenovelas. Children stopped being convenient plot propellers and became protagonists and it sucks,especially the various teenagers. I do not watch telenovelas to see episode after episode of child characters getting zits or wanting a cellphone. This I could watch on Nikelodeon of Disney, if I were so inclined. Recently, there even was a love triangle between 8 year olds! in a telenovela.
And the finale weddings are gone for some reason too (Ringo, Sin Mirada,Te doy la vida).
And there is staggering amount of telenovelas about "real life" lately, with mundane real life problems for 150 episodes and no villains.What's the point of watching a telenovela if it is like real life? For real life I have my own real life to analyze and be bored from. And Adriana Noel, you are so right about the "big mansions" telenovelas. Really, those are the best kind, the options for fun villainy and exciting love stories are endless, so why aren't we getting those anymore?
And the finale weddings are gone for some reason too (Ringo, Sin Mirada,Te doy la vida).
And there is staggering amount of telenovelas about "real life" lately, with mundane real life problems for 150 episodes and no villains.What's the point of watching a telenovela if it is like real life? For real life I have my own real life to analyze and be bored from. And Adriana Noel, you are so right about the "big mansions" telenovelas. Really, those are the best kind, the options for fun villainy and exciting love stories are endless, so why aren't we getting those anymore?
Permalink posted by : Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:11:00 AM EDT
: Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:11:00 AM EDT
And I am also terribly annoyed by all this second (and third) telenovela season nonsense that goes on recently. A telenovela has to have a beginning, a somewhat long and drawn out middle section where sometimes nothing happens for weeks and most importantly, a happy ending, accent being made on the happy. What's the point of watching a telenovela and instead of getting a Fin there is a "bear with us, we will come back in a year or so, or maybe not at all, but for now here is a stupid and ridiculous cliff hanger, we learned it from American tv series"
Also, a telenovela without a happy ending should not exist. Why would we want to emotionally invest only to get a "you watched their love story for 80 hours, now watch them die a terrible death because we want to be original" ending?
Also, a telenovela without a happy ending should not exist. Why would we want to emotionally invest only to get a "you watched their love story for 80 hours, now watch them die a terrible death because we want to be original" ending?
Permalink posted by : Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:41:00 AM EDT
: Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:41:00 AM EDT
Anon (how about choosing a nice signature, so we get to know you better), have you ever watched Argentina novelas? they were the best at mansion settings - in 5 episodes tops everybody and their mother lived under the same, gigantic roof? I haven't watched one in a while, the last being Muneca Brava with Natalia Oreiro (Mexico remade it as Al diablo con los guapos, which didn't even come close quality-wise). And the Andrea del Boca ones were classic, although they are almost 30 years old now.
Adriana Noel
Adriana Noel
Permalink posted by : Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 9:13:00 AM EDT
: Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 9:13:00 AM EDT
Sorry, forgot to sign my earlier posts.
Yep, telenovelas from Argentina used to be great once. I still fondly remember all the historical ones such as Extrana dama,Cosecharas tu siembra and Mas alla del horizonte.And i loved all the Del Boca telenovelas, especially Antonella. Lately, unfortunately, their telenovelas are unwatchable (full of supernatural elements which have no place in telenovela in my opinion and /or too ridiculous to take seriously).
Irene
Yep, telenovelas from Argentina used to be great once. I still fondly remember all the historical ones such as Extrana dama,Cosecharas tu siembra and Mas alla del horizonte.And i loved all the Del Boca telenovelas, especially Antonella. Lately, unfortunately, their telenovelas are unwatchable (full of supernatural elements which have no place in telenovela in my opinion and /or too ridiculous to take seriously).
Irene
Permalink posted by : Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 11:30:00 AM EDT
: Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 11:30:00 AM EDT
Nice to meet you, Irene :)
I LOVED Antonella! Have you seen Nano? I think that's what it was called... the héroïne couldn't speak because of childhood trauma....
I LOVED Antonella! Have you seen Nano? I think that's what it was called... the héroïne couldn't speak because of childhood trauma....
Ah, Irene, I haven't even been watching the new stuff long enough to wonder about the seasonal telenovelas! I briefly glimpsed the one with lawyers and noted the crossover in Medicos, wondering at the hinted at tension between the two lawyers that made me wonder how that one ended only to realize it hadn't/hasn't! Not completely at least, because of this season by season situation.
Doris! Hello! I hadn't even realized how difficult the non-neutral Spanish was for me until you said it, but it's definitely a factor in my understanding. I thought I was just out of the game for so long and the medical terminology was confusing me, but I think you're right. Gone is the "news anchor English" version of TN (Mexican) Spanish that was so helpful to me years ago...
SFChicaBonita, thank you for that excellent insight into the industry. I had not fully considered the "whys" of all these changes, but your comments make me take the audience into consideration. I hadn't thought about it, but when I was younger, there was just Univision and then, a bit later, Telemundo. Now, not only are there more options, but new Spanish-speaking immigrants have given way to their bilingual or English-only speaking kids who aren't known for patiently waiting for tomorrow's episode when they can binge a whole "season" of a show and then surf the net for hundreds of analyses and predictions about what comes next "season". (Yet another reason the Patio is such a magical place!)
Budget cuts make the move from mansions and ranchos make more sense though, but it has really cut out a lot of the relationships to me. Oh, we still see friendships and romances blossoming, but it doesn't hold the same tension at all.
Jarifa-SUCH a good point about poverty. You are so, so correct! If there's one thing that hasn't changed (though it's mellowed a teeny bit), it's the struggle out of poverty and the characters that are obnoxiously snooty on the basis of wealth. What does it say about the world we live in when romance all but disappears, but socioeconomic conflict remains front and center? Sigh.
Doris! Hello! I hadn't even realized how difficult the non-neutral Spanish was for me until you said it, but it's definitely a factor in my understanding. I thought I was just out of the game for so long and the medical terminology was confusing me, but I think you're right. Gone is the "news anchor English" version of TN (Mexican) Spanish that was so helpful to me years ago...
SFChicaBonita, thank you for that excellent insight into the industry. I had not fully considered the "whys" of all these changes, but your comments make me take the audience into consideration. I hadn't thought about it, but when I was younger, there was just Univision and then, a bit later, Telemundo. Now, not only are there more options, but new Spanish-speaking immigrants have given way to their bilingual or English-only speaking kids who aren't known for patiently waiting for tomorrow's episode when they can binge a whole "season" of a show and then surf the net for hundreds of analyses and predictions about what comes next "season". (Yet another reason the Patio is such a magical place!)
Budget cuts make the move from mansions and ranchos make more sense though, but it has really cut out a lot of the relationships to me. Oh, we still see friendships and romances blossoming, but it doesn't hold the same tension at all.
Jarifa-SUCH a good point about poverty. You are so, so correct! If there's one thing that hasn't changed (though it's mellowed a teeny bit), it's the struggle out of poverty and the characters that are obnoxiously snooty on the basis of wealth. What does it say about the world we live in when romance all but disappears, but socioeconomic conflict remains front and center? Sigh.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 12:53:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 12:53:00 PM EDT
Hellashelle, you sure gave us an excellent topic to discuss; and you started it off with an exemplary bang. And the commentary is exceptional!
Like so many others, I do miss the traditional novelas. I've been watching TNs since the black-and-white TV times, but I did take long breaks in between. I missed the historical novels which seem to have been a hit; maybe if they air them again sometime I can enjoy them as much as those who have mentioned them.
I also agree that we generally watch these TNs to get away from all the chaos and (bad) news in RL. It was so nice to go into our little fantasy world of TNs and KNOW that the main couple would end up together and have a magnificent wedding at the end. And as others have mentioned, we could count on a reliable priest, an older happy couple, and those odious villains who would get their anvils.
My thoughts on why TNs have evolved to more realistic current times--RATINGS. Networks are always competing for ratings and they will "go with the flow." Prime example is the (future) airing of "Imperio de Mentiras" in what is now the time slot for "Medicos"...all because Univision thought that Telemundo's "Todo Por Mi Hija" would outrank Medicos...well, it didn't!! But they are still going ahead with their plan. (sigh)
I also think that the Spanish-language networks are trying to mimic the programming of the English language networks, thus the transition to all these series that we are getting. It'll be an even sadder day when SL networks fill the primetime slots with reality shows!
Like Susanlynn, I tolerate many of the current shows because I have had the pleasure of meeting so many wonderful people here at Caray...and they are dear to my heart. I must, however, admit that there are some more current TNs that I did enjoy, such as "Amar a Muerte" and "La Bella y Las Bestias." And there are some that are aired in "daytime" hours that have some similarities to the traditional TNs (though some are repeats ;-)
Well, those are my thoughts...have a great week-end, Patio!!
Hellashelle, you made this patio ROCK!! Thanks, again!
Like so many others, I do miss the traditional novelas. I've been watching TNs since the black-and-white TV times, but I did take long breaks in between. I missed the historical novels which seem to have been a hit; maybe if they air them again sometime I can enjoy them as much as those who have mentioned them.
I also agree that we generally watch these TNs to get away from all the chaos and (bad) news in RL. It was so nice to go into our little fantasy world of TNs and KNOW that the main couple would end up together and have a magnificent wedding at the end. And as others have mentioned, we could count on a reliable priest, an older happy couple, and those odious villains who would get their anvils.
My thoughts on why TNs have evolved to more realistic current times--RATINGS. Networks are always competing for ratings and they will "go with the flow." Prime example is the (future) airing of "Imperio de Mentiras" in what is now the time slot for "Medicos"...all because Univision thought that Telemundo's "Todo Por Mi Hija" would outrank Medicos...well, it didn't!! But they are still going ahead with their plan. (sigh)
I also think that the Spanish-language networks are trying to mimic the programming of the English language networks, thus the transition to all these series that we are getting. It'll be an even sadder day when SL networks fill the primetime slots with reality shows!
Like Susanlynn, I tolerate many of the current shows because I have had the pleasure of meeting so many wonderful people here at Caray...and they are dear to my heart. I must, however, admit that there are some more current TNs that I did enjoy, such as "Amar a Muerte" and "La Bella y Las Bestias." And there are some that are aired in "daytime" hours that have some similarities to the traditional TNs (though some are repeats ;-)
Well, those are my thoughts...have a great week-end, Patio!!
Hellashelle, you made this patio ROCK!! Thanks, again!
I wouldn't mind the "seasons" if they would finish the story they were already telling first. Finish the story and then give us a taste of next season. With... um... I forget what it was called, the one with Ariadne Diaz as a norteno singing star, and her frightened immigrant friend with the abusive gringo husband, and the mob boss who turned out to be *gasp* a WOMAN... I don't remember how it ended, but it wasn't satisfactory and then there was supposed to be a next season, which I don't know if that ever happened.
On the other hand, there was Tres Veces Ana, which was supposed to have two seasons, but the first season dragged on for so long (and with so much filler) thank goodness they abandoned the two-season plan. What were they thinking? They didn't have two seasons' worth of material, and that should have been obvious from the start.
Actually, "what were they thinking" pretty much sums up my opinion of the last several TNs I watched.
As for the swashbuckling heroes of the historical TNs... yes please. But back when Pasion was on, someone (I think Beckster) commented that they got lower ratings, because for people in Mexico, that was more like "Masterpiece Theater" than a mindless typical TN (like Fuego en la Sangre, which enjoyed high ratings despite its extreme mindlessness). Huh! I got her point... but even a "typical" TN doesn't have to be mindless to be entertaining.
Of all the "evolutions" of TNs that I observed in my 10+ years of watching, the one that was most depressing was the increasing trend of stuffing a TN cast full of big stars and then giving them a horrible, bad, awful, weak script. (Vino Amor, Tres Veces Ana, you can think of more.) What a waste of talent. Like they create an intelligent protagonista and then they don't know what to do with her.
And Univision had its own role to play in making them harder to watch. Anyone remember what they did with Yago? They did a week, maybe two of episodes, then moved it to the middle of the night, then moved it to Unimas or something, I ended up having to get Hulu to watch the rest of it. And that thing Univision does where they double-up on the episodes, a nightmare for recappers and I am at an absolute loss as to how this benefits anyone, including Univision. Or their habit of snipping out scenes which may or may not be crucial to the plot. So even when Televisa provides something that is good to watch, the experience of seeing it on Univision may be spoiled.
Admittedly that last paragraph has little to do with the evolution of the telenovela. It's just my personal tantrum. But I suspect it's a big part of why ratings may be down in the US. Univision shows no respect to its viewers nor to the programs the broadcast. Does't matter how much Televisa "evolves" its TNs if you can't even watch them in a reasonable way.
(I don't watch any more because even though I have cable, I don't get Univision. I have Comcast. Comcast owns Telemundo. You do the math.)
On the other hand, there was Tres Veces Ana, which was supposed to have two seasons, but the first season dragged on for so long (and with so much filler) thank goodness they abandoned the two-season plan. What were they thinking? They didn't have two seasons' worth of material, and that should have been obvious from the start.
Actually, "what were they thinking" pretty much sums up my opinion of the last several TNs I watched.
As for the swashbuckling heroes of the historical TNs... yes please. But back when Pasion was on, someone (I think Beckster) commented that they got lower ratings, because for people in Mexico, that was more like "Masterpiece Theater" than a mindless typical TN (like Fuego en la Sangre, which enjoyed high ratings despite its extreme mindlessness). Huh! I got her point... but even a "typical" TN doesn't have to be mindless to be entertaining.
Of all the "evolutions" of TNs that I observed in my 10+ years of watching, the one that was most depressing was the increasing trend of stuffing a TN cast full of big stars and then giving them a horrible, bad, awful, weak script. (Vino Amor, Tres Veces Ana, you can think of more.) What a waste of talent. Like they create an intelligent protagonista and then they don't know what to do with her.
And Univision had its own role to play in making them harder to watch. Anyone remember what they did with Yago? They did a week, maybe two of episodes, then moved it to the middle of the night, then moved it to Unimas or something, I ended up having to get Hulu to watch the rest of it. And that thing Univision does where they double-up on the episodes, a nightmare for recappers and I am at an absolute loss as to how this benefits anyone, including Univision. Or their habit of snipping out scenes which may or may not be crucial to the plot. So even when Televisa provides something that is good to watch, the experience of seeing it on Univision may be spoiled.
Admittedly that last paragraph has little to do with the evolution of the telenovela. It's just my personal tantrum. But I suspect it's a big part of why ratings may be down in the US. Univision shows no respect to its viewers nor to the programs the broadcast. Does't matter how much Televisa "evolves" its TNs if you can't even watch them in a reasonable way.
(I don't watch any more because even though I have cable, I don't get Univision. I have Comcast. Comcast owns Telemundo. You do the math.)
Julie, the TN with Ariadne Diaz was “La Doble Vida de Estrella Carrillo.” It ended with a cliffhanger—Estela was she on stage singing and she looks to the back and sees someone...which obviously shocks her; and, no, they never had the 2nd season...they ditched the idea.
ITA with your rant about the slicing, diving and doubling up on episodes. It frustrates the heck out of me. I’ll be watching an episode and something happens out of the blue...not even a rocky transition. UGHHH! But even with all that they do to frustrate the heck out of us, Univision keeps reporting that their ratings are higher than any other network. I don’t see how!
ITA with your rant about the slicing, diving and doubling up on episodes. It frustrates the heck out of me. I’ll be watching an episode and something happens out of the blue...not even a rocky transition. UGHHH! But even with all that they do to frustrate the heck out of us, Univision keeps reporting that their ratings are higher than any other network. I don’t see how!
Irene said "And Adriana Noel, you are so right about the "big mansions" telenovelas. Really, those are the best kind, the options for fun villainy and exciting love stories are endless, so why aren't we getting those anymore?"
And those big ole mansions had beautiful staircases for escaleracide, too!
And those big ole mansions had beautiful staircases for escaleracide, too!
Doris...ha...yes....those staircases of doom were in every grand house in every telenovela, and it was just a matter of time before someone went hurtling down them to their demise. Then,you could cross that off your bingo card.
Permalink posted by : Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:00 PM EDT
: Saturday, September 12, 2020 at 6:06:00 PM EDT
Adriana Noel, yes, I watched Nano and almost every other telenovela with Gustavo Bermudez. It was a classic, with every single cliche from missing child to amnesia, evil uncle, jealous sister and long suffering grandmother included. It was a long time ago, so I don't remember whether there was an escaleracide there, but I am pretty sure there was an escalera there.
Doris and Susanlynn, we used to always be able to count on escalera being instrumental either in taking a character out of circulation by preventing him/her from opening his/her mouth to reveal an inconvenient truth or by putting an end to real/fake pregnancy.Those were good old days. Now,for some reason,the villains are way too sophisticated for their own good, using all sorts of risky modern methods, where a good old push from escalera would have been enough.Or maybe they simply don't have escaleras in their reach anymore.
And what about the telephones? How fun was it to see a character (often a villain) aggressively slam the receiver and now the villains don't even have that pleasure! You can't really slam a cellphone(o.k,you can throw it, but it just isn't the same).
Irene
Doris and Susanlynn, we used to always be able to count on escalera being instrumental either in taking a character out of circulation by preventing him/her from opening his/her mouth to reveal an inconvenient truth or by putting an end to real/fake pregnancy.Those were good old days. Now,for some reason,the villains are way too sophisticated for their own good, using all sorts of risky modern methods, where a good old push from escalera would have been enough.Or maybe they simply don't have escaleras in their reach anymore.
And what about the telephones? How fun was it to see a character (often a villain) aggressively slam the receiver and now the villains don't even have that pleasure! You can't really slam a cellphone(o.k,you can throw it, but it just isn't the same).
Irene
Permalink posted by : Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 4:21:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 4:21:00 AM EDT
Yes, SF...we used to watch Sergio like a hawk waiting for the next, cataclysmic throw. He was especially thrilling in Destilando Amor but he threw in a number of other telenovelas as well. Sure hope he's nicer in real life!
Yep, Sergio Sendel is the undisputed champion of telenovela phone throwing. Imagine how great he would have been in receiver slamming!!!
Irene
Irene
Permalink posted by : Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:37:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:37:00 AM EDT
Not to mention door-slamming, vase throwing and all sorts of other mayhem. Good to see you Irene. Is this the Irene who gave us such marvelous and informed rants about legal matters back in the Coroncito and Amar Sin Ley days?
Yes, JudyB, you guessed correctly. The theme is quite interesting so I decided to stop lurking and offer my 5 cents on the subject.
Unfortunately, we get less and less of door-slamming, vase and phone throwing lately. I guess its the new era of telenovelas. The villains are awfully soft-spoken and correct lately. No crazy shenanigans anymore, for some reason. Maybe it's the recession, they don't have vases and phones to spare.
Ire
Unfortunately, we get less and less of door-slamming, vase and phone throwing lately. I guess its the new era of telenovelas. The villains are awfully soft-spoken and correct lately. No crazy shenanigans anymore, for some reason. Maybe it's the recession, they don't have vases and phones to spare.
Ire
Permalink posted by : Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:47:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:47:00 AM EDT
Oops, I inadvertently misspelled my name.Although when I think about it, it's kind of fitting.
Irene
Irene
Permalink posted by : Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:49:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 9:49:00 AM EDT
Thanks, JudyB. I am not thrilled with latest telenovela offerings(including PASL 2 which apparently is getting a third season), but might check out Imperio de Mentiras though I am not a big fan of Boyer.
Ire
Ire
Permalink posted by : Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 10:48:00 AM EDT
: Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 10:48:00 AM EDT
I started watching telenovelas before the dawn of cellphones, tablets, and DNA testing . They have made a huge difference in storylines just as they have made a huge difference in our own lives .
Permalink posted by : Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 12:33:00 PM EDT
: Sunday, September 13, 2020 at 12:33:00 PM EDT
Reminiscing about TNs of days past makes me both understand why they’ve evolved and confused about why they evolved the way they did. Yes, there were plenty of cliches and melodrama, but those things could have been fixed rather than abandoned. One of my fave TNs was Amor Bravio, which has a strong heroine who didn’t spend 80% of the novels crying, no one fell down a staircase (to be fair there was a truth-telling delay but way of car accident and other, shockingly gory methods). I feel like they could have made more such TNs which radically changing every aspect of the formula so drastically.
Also, I really like the idea of flinging a cell phone to substitute phone slamming! So dramatic. Ah, nostalgia...
Also, I really like the idea of flinging a cell phone to substitute phone slamming! So dramatic. Ah, nostalgia...
Great discussion here. I admit I liked the older TNs better--liked the ones with haciendas especially, but the big mansion ones were fun too. It was interesting seeing the standard themes and characters play out, plus any creative twists. Thanks to all the good people on the patio who keep sharing and sending comments.
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