Tuesday, February 22, 2011
La Fea Más Bella #223-234 2/22/11 You can’t talk if you won’t say what I want.
Capitulo 223.
Read Julie’s original recap, then come back here to discuss it.
1. The fight continues. F: Lety has a commitment to me. It’s a work commitment. Fern punches Aldo and he falls. Lety calls “Aldo,” but does she rush toward him like she did when Fern fell? She tells Aldo to leave, the same as Fern. Lety runs away. Aldo tells Fern his faults:
Aldo: I’m not going to manipulate her like you did.
Fern: Since she met you, she’s been cold to me and serious. You’ve turned off her light toward me.
A: No, you turned off the light she gave you. I’m turning her light back on, and it will be for me. For me! You’re in love with her, right?
F: Why do you ask? You just want to use it against me.
A: You are your own worst enemy. Your love is weak. You put your love for yourself first. Your love depends on Lety returning it. So that she makes you feel good, and so that she rescues your company from the bankruptcy you put it into. All this turned into a dishonorable love and in the darkness. False.
(Aldo continues) Couldn’t you see that? Would you be able to defend your love for her? You will fight openly (not “you would” but “you will”).
F: You can’t (have no right to) judge me. You don’t know what I’ve done or what I feel for Lety. And you cannot imagine what I’m going to continue doing for her.
2. Alicia insists that her problem is the same as Marcia’s – Lety took her fiancé. Marcia takes offense at the comparison.
3. Lety tells Tom that Fern and Aldo fought, and that Aldo declared his love. Tom eagerly asks if Lety accepts he declaration. She says she can’t; she still loves Fernando. She says Fern only defended his company, but Aldo was really defending her. Tom again tries to push her into Aldo’s arms.
4. Marcia stops the fight and asks if it was about Lety. Fern claims that it was because Aldo bothers him.
5. Luigi definitively breaks up with Ruli, saying he’s met the man of his dreams. In the Rage Room he thanks Aldo for the bear and agrees to spend their life together, before he lets Irmita tell him that the bear was from Ruli. Irmita tries to talk sense to Luigi, but Lui doesn’t want to hear the truth.
6. Fernando wants to cancel his trip since he now knows Aldo loves Lety. Omar convinces him that won’t work (Omar’s been getting smarter lately), but Fern puts on a pitiful face to make Omar promise to keep Aldo and Lety apart while he’s gone.
7. Aldo apologizes for putting Lety in that position, but he needed to tell her (an apology with a “but” is never an apology, it’s an excuse). Lety wishes she could return his love but she can’t. He’s sure one day she will. She says she gets strength from him. From today on, he’s going to put all his strength into winning her. She tries to say something about that but he won’t let her. Is that a preview of his methods?
8. Aldo and Tom rehash. Aldo asks what Fernando has that drives women crazy. (How much time ya’ got, Aldo?) Tom briefs Aldo on Ali’s fantasy engagement. Aldo tries to talk to Ali, but she knows what’s coming so she won’t let him burst her bubble.
Capitulo 224.
Read Chapel Hill Fiddler’s original recap, then come back here to discuss it.
1. Lety tells Tom that Ariel insisted on a restaurant because he wants to have the upper hand. By refusing the ride with the chauffer, she returns the first volley. Paula asks Ariel’s chauffer for the address of the restaurant, and Fernando intercepts the it before giving it to Paula.
2. Fern and Omar fight for the comfy chair. Fern is sure Ariel asked Lety out to seduce her. But why would she go, after all he’s done to her? Omar says now Lety has three suitors.
3. Ariel tries to impress and charm Lety, but she cuts straight to business. He asks for an advance. She flatly refuses because of the financial crisis. He tries mind games but she doesn’t budge. Meanwhile Fern, in hiding, throws grapes at him. Lety leaves.
4. Aldo tells his dad that he’s the right one for Lety because he gives a better quality love. Fern only wants to please himself, not her. He says (I think I heard this right), “ If he were to genuinely love her, she would be obligated to forgive him, and she hasn’t. My love is so great, if I knew Fern would make her happy I would step aside immediately.”
5. Fern catches Lety leaving. He warns her Ariel just wants to use her. Lety mocks the irony, an executive who wants to seduce her to save his business, and Fern is telling her because she’s so gullible. See the transcript. He says, “No one can love you like I do. I can't get you out of my heart.” He begs her to go away with him. “Why can’t you see that you were born for me? And I for you?”
6. Lety hopes that when he returns, he’ll stop using people. Fern answers, “When I get back, I will find a way to show you how MUCH I love you.”
Spanish Lesson. Outside Bon Terra.
Note, I started with Melinama’s recap and added to make it a nearly precise transcript. Certain parts will be identical because hers provided the skeleton of mine.
L: Are you afraid we're planning against you?
F: No, Lety. The truth is, I can't stand to see you with another man, not Ariel, not Aldo. Understand me, please.
L: We won't talk about Aldo, but why not sit with Ariel and exchange experiences?
F: That idiot's going to hear about it from me for making fun of you!
L: Don't complicate things for us more than they are already.
F: Since we’re being honest, can I tell you the difference between that executive and this one? That one would never fall in love with you.
L: Be quiet!
F: No, you have to listen to me. Don’t you understand that no man could ever, ever fall in love with you as much as I have.
L: Don Fernando, go home. Stay away from me. I’m begging you. I’ve asked you a thousand times. All you’ll do is make more problems.
Screen 38:55. F: More problems, Lety? I am in the middle of a very serious problem. Do you know what it is? I can’t get you out of my heart. I can't forget the incredible times we had together. Do you remember the weekend we escaped to Cuernavaca? (He’s breaking through.) Our night together? Lety, we can rebuild everything that’s broken. XG at our feet. Against/contrary to ourselves.
L: Yes, against ourselves.
(He starts to move to kiss her and she doesn’t resist, but then he gets an idea and pushes his luck.)
F: Let's go. Right now. You have no idea how much I need your kisses. I need the touch of your skin to live again. You and me. Together, far from here. To start anew. Like the first time. revive me, let's begin again. (He leans in to kiss her. She pulls away.)
L: No. Something’s wrong here.
F: What? You and I can get back together. We can forget about Marcia. There’s nothing to get in our way. I need you because you are mine. I’ll make it so you can forget all the pain in the world, and Aldo too. Can't you see? Why is it so hard to see that you were born for me? And I for you?
L: Do you suspect Aldo of fraud against Conceptos or something like that?
F: Of course not, Lety. Why do you say that?
L: That’s what it is. You’re afraid of Aldo like you were once afraid of Tom.
F: No, of course not. But I’m concerned because I don’t know his intentions.
L: Of course. I’m an idiot. Sr Fernando, I wanted to believe you’re sincere. But you’re still playing your old game. You want to seduce me to save your company.
F: No. That’s not true. I’m just asking for a chance. For us to be together today. Only today. To show/demonstrate to you..
L: No. Forget it, Sr Fernando. Go away. Leave me alone.
F: Fine. I will leave you alone. If that’s what you really want. Starting right now, we won’t see each other for a long time. I’ll be traveling, working.
L: I hope when you return you'll have reconsidered. If only you would mature and stop using people for your personal gain.
F: When I get back, I will find a way to show you how MUCH I love you.
Various significant sentences
These are spread over several interchanges between Aldo and his father, Fausto.
Fausto: The fight with Fernando. Did it accomplish what you wanted? Aldo: Yes...
Aldo: Fernando fell into his own trap. He ended up falling in love with Leticia.
Aldo: Fernando’s fortaleza (fortitude, strength of spirit) depends entirely on Lety’s love for him. His love for her is selfish. He only loves her to make himself happy. He never thinks about what is good for her, what will make her happy. Fausto: And you do XG??
37:50. Aldo: (I think) If he were to genuinely love her, she would be obligated to forgive him, and she hasn’t.
Fausto: When one is aware of his weaknesses, it’s easier to manage them and control them.
Aldo: (Loosely) Fernando is a mess and his love is a mess. Fausto: Yes, but Lety still loves him, doesn’t she?
Aldo: My love is so great, if I knew Fern would make her happy, I swear I would step aside immediately.
Aldo: After the way he deceived her, now the more sincere he gets when he’s with her, the more of a liar he will appear in her eyes.
Fausto: (as if remembering his past) Yes, that’s the price one pays when he deceives the one he loves.
Read Julie’s original recap, then come back here to discuss it.
1. The fight continues. F: Lety has a commitment to me. It’s a work commitment. Fern punches Aldo and he falls. Lety calls “Aldo,” but does she rush toward him like she did when Fern fell? She tells Aldo to leave, the same as Fern. Lety runs away. Aldo tells Fern his faults:
Aldo: I’m not going to manipulate her like you did.
Fern: Since she met you, she’s been cold to me and serious. You’ve turned off her light toward me.
A: No, you turned off the light she gave you. I’m turning her light back on, and it will be for me. For me! You’re in love with her, right?
F: Why do you ask? You just want to use it against me.
A: You are your own worst enemy. Your love is weak. You put your love for yourself first. Your love depends on Lety returning it. So that she makes you feel good, and so that she rescues your company from the bankruptcy you put it into. All this turned into a dishonorable love and in the darkness. False. 
(Aldo continues) Couldn’t you see that? Would you be able to defend your love for her? You will fight openly (not “you would” but “you will”). F: You can’t (have no right to) judge me. You don’t know what I’ve done or what I feel for Lety. And you cannot imagine what I’m going to continue doing for her.
2. Alicia insists that her problem is the same as Marcia’s – Lety took her fiancé. Marcia takes offense at the comparison.
3. Lety tells Tom that Fern and Aldo fought, and that Aldo declared his love. Tom eagerly asks if Lety accepts he declaration. She says she can’t; she still loves Fernando. She says Fern only defended his company, but Aldo was really defending her. Tom again tries to push her into Aldo’s arms.
4. Marcia stops the fight and asks if it was about Lety. Fern claims that it was because Aldo bothers him.
5. Luigi definitively breaks up with Ruli, saying he’s met the man of his dreams. In the Rage Room he thanks Aldo for the bear and agrees to spend their life together, before he lets Irmita tell him that the bear was from Ruli. Irmita tries to talk sense to Luigi, but Lui doesn’t want to hear the truth.
6. Fernando wants to cancel his trip since he now knows Aldo loves Lety. Omar convinces him that won’t work (Omar’s been getting smarter lately), but Fern puts on a pitiful face to make Omar promise to keep Aldo and Lety apart while he’s gone.7. Aldo apologizes for putting Lety in that position, but he needed to tell her (an apology with a “but” is never an apology, it’s an excuse). Lety wishes she could return his love but she can’t. He’s sure one day she will. She says she gets strength from him. From today on, he’s going to put all his strength into winning her. She tries to say something about that but he won’t let her. Is that a preview of his methods?
8. Aldo and Tom rehash. Aldo asks what Fernando has that drives women crazy. (How much time ya’ got, Aldo?) Tom briefs Aldo on Ali’s fantasy engagement. Aldo tries to talk to Ali, but she knows what’s coming so she won’t let him burst her bubble.
Capitulo 224.
Read Chapel Hill Fiddler’s original recap, then come back here to discuss it.
1. Lety tells Tom that Ariel insisted on a restaurant because he wants to have the upper hand. By refusing the ride with the chauffer, she returns the first volley. Paula asks Ariel’s chauffer for the address of the restaurant, and Fernando intercepts the it before giving it to Paula.
2. Fern and Omar fight for the comfy chair. Fern is sure Ariel asked Lety out to seduce her. But why would she go, after all he’s done to her? Omar says now Lety has three suitors.
3. Ariel tries to impress and charm Lety, but she cuts straight to business. He asks for an advance. She flatly refuses because of the financial crisis. He tries mind games but she doesn’t budge. Meanwhile Fern, in hiding, throws grapes at him. Lety leaves.4. Aldo tells his dad that he’s the right one for Lety because he gives a better quality love. Fern only wants to please himself, not her. He says (I think I heard this right), “ If he were to genuinely love her, she would be obligated to forgive him, and she hasn’t. My love is so great, if I knew Fern would make her happy I would step aside immediately.”
5. Fern catches Lety leaving. He warns her Ariel just wants to use her. Lety mocks the irony, an executive who wants to seduce her to save his business, and Fern is telling her because she’s so gullible. See the transcript. He says, “No one can love you like I do. I can't get you out of my heart.” He begs her to go away with him. “Why can’t you see that you were born for me? And I for you?”
6. Lety hopes that when he returns, he’ll stop using people. Fern answers, “When I get back, I will find a way to show you how MUCH I love you.”
Spanish Lesson. Outside Bon Terra.
Note, I started with Melinama’s recap and added to make it a nearly precise transcript. Certain parts will be identical because hers provided the skeleton of mine.
L: Are you afraid we're planning against you?
F: No, Lety. The truth is, I can't stand to see you with another man, not Ariel, not Aldo. Understand me, please.
L: We won't talk about Aldo, but why not sit with Ariel and exchange experiences?
F: That idiot's going to hear about it from me for making fun of you!
L: Don't complicate things for us more than they are already.
F: Since we’re being honest, can I tell you the difference between that executive and this one? That one would never fall in love with you.
L: Be quiet!
F: No, you have to listen to me. Don’t you understand that no man could ever, ever fall in love with you as much as I have.
L: Don Fernando, go home. Stay away from me. I’m begging you. I’ve asked you a thousand times. All you’ll do is make more problems.
Screen 38:55. F: More problems, Lety? I am in the middle of a very serious problem. Do you know what it is? I can’t get you out of my heart. I can't forget the incredible times we had together. Do you remember the weekend we escaped to Cuernavaca? (He’s breaking through.) Our night together? Lety, we can rebuild everything that’s broken. XG at our feet. Against/contrary to ourselves.
L: Yes, against ourselves.
(He starts to move to kiss her and she doesn’t resist, but then he gets an idea and pushes his luck.)
F: Let's go. Right now. You have no idea how much I need your kisses. I need the touch of your skin to live again. You and me. Together, far from here. To start anew. Like the first time. revive me, let's begin again. (He leans in to kiss her. She pulls away.)
L: No. Something’s wrong here.
F: What? You and I can get back together. We can forget about Marcia. There’s nothing to get in our way. I need you because you are mine. I’ll make it so you can forget all the pain in the world, and Aldo too. Can't you see? Why is it so hard to see that you were born for me? And I for you?
L: Do you suspect Aldo of fraud against Conceptos or something like that?
F: Of course not, Lety. Why do you say that?
L: That’s what it is. You’re afraid of Aldo like you were once afraid of Tom.
F: No, of course not. But I’m concerned because I don’t know his intentions.
L: Of course. I’m an idiot. Sr Fernando, I wanted to believe you’re sincere. But you’re still playing your old game. You want to seduce me to save your company.
F: No. That’s not true. I’m just asking for a chance. For us to be together today. Only today. To show/demonstrate to you..
L: No. Forget it, Sr Fernando. Go away. Leave me alone.
F: Fine. I will leave you alone. If that’s what you really want. Starting right now, we won’t see each other for a long time. I’ll be traveling, working.
L: I hope when you return you'll have reconsidered. If only you would mature and stop using people for your personal gain.
F: When I get back, I will find a way to show you how MUCH I love you.
Various significant sentences
These are spread over several interchanges between Aldo and his father, Fausto.
Fausto: The fight with Fernando. Did it accomplish what you wanted? Aldo: Yes...
Aldo: Fernando fell into his own trap. He ended up falling in love with Leticia.
Aldo: Fernando’s fortaleza (fortitude, strength of spirit) depends entirely on Lety’s love for him. His love for her is selfish. He only loves her to make himself happy. He never thinks about what is good for her, what will make her happy. Fausto: And you do XG??
37:50. Aldo: (I think) If he were to genuinely love her, she would be obligated to forgive him, and she hasn’t.
Fausto: When one is aware of his weaknesses, it’s easier to manage them and control them.
Aldo: (Loosely) Fernando is a mess and his love is a mess. Fausto: Yes, but Lety still loves him, doesn’t she?
Aldo: My love is so great, if I knew Fern would make her happy, I swear I would step aside immediately.
Aldo: After the way he deceived her, now the more sincere he gets when he’s with her, the more of a liar he will appear in her eyes.
Fausto: (as if remembering his past) Yes, that’s the price one pays when he deceives the one he loves.
Labels: fea-2010
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Thank you, Pata, for today's screenshots. They really add a lot to the story.
The rehash with Omar was classic! One funny after another! Omar has a new name for Lety: Presidentolita. Fern approves. Fern makes Omar promise to be “like you were me” while Fern’s gone. Omar asks if he has to wear hair gel and talk pompously. Omar resists so Fern puts on a really pathetic face and then says, “Look at the face I’m making. Please?”
When Fern hears Aldo loves Lety, he wants to cancel his trip. He took a step forward when Fern was willing to risk leaving her behind with Aldo. Now, one step back.
Marcia checks on Fern in the boys’ office before leaving for the day. After she leaves, Fern says, “She doesn’t have blood. She has lead in her veins.”
Don’t overlook the conversations between Aldo and his dad. There are some very significant nuggets in there. I included them in the transcript.
The rehash with Omar was classic! One funny after another! Omar has a new name for Lety: Presidentolita. Fern approves. Fern makes Omar promise to be “like you were me” while Fern’s gone. Omar asks if he has to wear hair gel and talk pompously. Omar resists so Fern puts on a really pathetic face and then says, “Look at the face I’m making. Please?”
When Fern hears Aldo loves Lety, he wants to cancel his trip. He took a step forward when Fern was willing to risk leaving her behind with Aldo. Now, one step back.
Marcia checks on Fern in the boys’ office before leaving for the day. After she leaves, Fern says, “She doesn’t have blood. She has lead in her veins.”
Don’t overlook the conversations between Aldo and his dad. There are some very significant nuggets in there. I included them in the transcript.
I think Fern is finally on his way now - beginning with the end of his conversation with Lety at the restaurant. Before that - I think what Aldo said was actually very accurate. Now I wonder if Aldo will truly step aside if he feels Fern truly loves Lety as he should. I think he will.
Why couldn't Fern tell the truth to Marcia when she came out to break up the fight? I think it's because at this point his love for Lety was still based on the condition that Lety actually loved him back. He didn't want to risk upsetting the Marcia situation if Lety wasn't going to choose him. I was very disappointed that he didn't tell the truth in that moment.
I think Aldo serves as the voice of reason in this episode that Fern needs to hear. he may not like it, but it's something that no one had clearly told him. We've talked a bit before on this board about Fern & Lety needed guides or coaches. Fern still hasn't really ever had that - his parents really aren't there for him, Omar is an idiot. So now he has his enemy Aldo to show him the truth. I think he probably realized just how true Aldo's words were in his later conversation with Lety.
Really great eps today. I really hope they don't give us more filler eps while Fern is away. I hope that his growth and learning are all interesting for us to watch.
I def think Aldo is also going full-court press on fighting for Lety's affection and love. It'll be interesting to see how Omar tries to intervene.
Ew to Ariel. He's just the worst person ever!
One thing i missed about yesterday's fight that I saw today and Julie mentioned in her recap is that Aldo threw the first punch, but I think it was because Fern was coming at him. I do think it was a defensive punch - which yesterday I missed (I thought Aldo was more of the aggressor yesterday, today after seeing the start of the fight again - not so much)
Why couldn't Fern tell the truth to Marcia when she came out to break up the fight? I think it's because at this point his love for Lety was still based on the condition that Lety actually loved him back. He didn't want to risk upsetting the Marcia situation if Lety wasn't going to choose him. I was very disappointed that he didn't tell the truth in that moment.
I think Aldo serves as the voice of reason in this episode that Fern needs to hear. he may not like it, but it's something that no one had clearly told him. We've talked a bit before on this board about Fern & Lety needed guides or coaches. Fern still hasn't really ever had that - his parents really aren't there for him, Omar is an idiot. So now he has his enemy Aldo to show him the truth. I think he probably realized just how true Aldo's words were in his later conversation with Lety.
Really great eps today. I really hope they don't give us more filler eps while Fern is away. I hope that his growth and learning are all interesting for us to watch.
I def think Aldo is also going full-court press on fighting for Lety's affection and love. It'll be interesting to see how Omar tries to intervene.
Ew to Ariel. He's just the worst person ever!
One thing i missed about yesterday's fight that I saw today and Julie mentioned in her recap is that Aldo threw the first punch, but I think it was because Fern was coming at him. I do think it was a defensive punch - which yesterday I missed (I thought Aldo was more of the aggressor yesterday, today after seeing the start of the fight again - not so much)
Who does Ariel's chauffer look like? A young Tony Curtis?
GP, I agree. Fern has had no one to teach him how to grow up. Not even Lety. She threw some accusations at him before she left and at Santuario, but nothing more. Now he’s going on this trip to put his life in order, and right before he leaves, look at what Aldo tells him. After Lety runs inside and before Marcia comes out. See the transcript within the first summary. Aldo clearly goes through the list and tells Fernando several of his biggest faults, as if it’s homework for his reinvention retreat.
I’m not going to claim that we see this as Aldo’s goal throughout the series. We don’t! He’s written VERY inconsistently. That’s the ONLY reliable definition of his character! Today he seems like he’s on a mission to force Fernando to change and keep Lety safely away from Fern until he grows up. Another day Aldo seems like he’ll stop at nothing to force Lety to be his, all his. So this idea, Aldo as Fernando’s drill sergeant, won’t hold up when Aldo’s character does some radical flip-flop. But for today anyway, that REALLY seems like what he’s trying to do.
And I think today's screen shots support that. Fern trying to process all this new information. And Aldo looking slightly satisfied that his lesson is sinking in. Later Fausto asked his son, "Did the fight accomplish what you wanted?" Aldo said it did. Fausto also said, "When one is aware of his weaknesses, it’s easier to manage them and control them."
GP, I agree. Fern has had no one to teach him how to grow up. Not even Lety. She threw some accusations at him before she left and at Santuario, but nothing more. Now he’s going on this trip to put his life in order, and right before he leaves, look at what Aldo tells him. After Lety runs inside and before Marcia comes out. See the transcript within the first summary. Aldo clearly goes through the list and tells Fernando several of his biggest faults, as if it’s homework for his reinvention retreat.
I’m not going to claim that we see this as Aldo’s goal throughout the series. We don’t! He’s written VERY inconsistently. That’s the ONLY reliable definition of his character! Today he seems like he’s on a mission to force Fernando to change and keep Lety safely away from Fern until he grows up. Another day Aldo seems like he’ll stop at nothing to force Lety to be his, all his. So this idea, Aldo as Fernando’s drill sergeant, won’t hold up when Aldo’s character does some radical flip-flop. But for today anyway, that REALLY seems like what he’s trying to do.
And I think today's screen shots support that. Fern trying to process all this new information. And Aldo looking slightly satisfied that his lesson is sinking in. Later Fausto asked his son, "Did the fight accomplish what you wanted?" Aldo said it did. Fausto also said, "When one is aware of his weaknesses, it’s easier to manage them and control them."
Paula,
You said to pay close attention to the scene with Aldo and Dad and to listen to what they say.
I found a couple of lines to be very interesting. Im sure of the translation because I had to rewind about 4 times:
A: ....Fernando fell into his own trap (cae en el mismo trampa) and ended up falling in love with Leticia
D: Tambien (also) that is what happened with you
So there is a trampa behind Aldo?..... His Dad so much as said so. And he fell into it and fell in love with Leticia?
The line I absolutely love the best is when Fern askes of Lety "When are you going to recognize that you were born for me and I was born for you?" Its so romantic. And suggestive of a Destiny..... Ahhhhh
Diann
You said to pay close attention to the scene with Aldo and Dad and to listen to what they say.
I found a couple of lines to be very interesting. Im sure of the translation because I had to rewind about 4 times:
A: ....Fernando fell into his own trap (cae en el mismo trampa) and ended up falling in love with Leticia
D: Tambien (also) that is what happened with you
So there is a trampa behind Aldo?..... His Dad so much as said so. And he fell into it and fell in love with Leticia?
The line I absolutely love the best is when Fern askes of Lety "When are you going to recognize that you were born for me and I was born for you?" Its so romantic. And suggestive of a Destiny..... Ahhhhh
Diann
Permalink posted by 
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 5:11:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 5:11:00 PM EST
Hello all, just a quick comment before I run out the door. I didn't get a chance to finish this episode, had to stop right where Ariel asks Lety about her sex life. He is an amazing cad!! She seems to be handling him pretty well though.
Thanks to the recappers and Pata for the great screen shots and the recap so far. Boy oh boy, everybody's nerves are on edge at Conceptos. I wonder how much longer they will be able to be around each other?
Thanks to the recappers and Pata for the great screen shots and the recap so far. Boy oh boy, everybody's nerves are on edge at Conceptos. I wonder how much longer they will be able to be around each other?
Interesting, Diann - I took "that's what's happening to you too" to refer only to falling in love with Lety. Not the earlier part about falling into a trap.
Though, maybe you could say that hiding out in Acapulco and not socializing after his wife's death was a "trap" of sorts.
On the other hand, I didn't remember (maybe I didn't know 4 years ago) that Fausto asked Aldo if the fight accomplished what Aldo wanted. That certainly does make it sound as though the fight was some kind of trap.
I always felt throughout the fight that he was baiting Fernando, but until today I never considered that the fight itself had been in his plans. Now I wonder if he hadn't been seeking the opportunity. I'd like to think not, but Fausto makes it sound calculated.
Though, maybe you could say that hiding out in Acapulco and not socializing after his wife's death was a "trap" of sorts.
On the other hand, I didn't remember (maybe I didn't know 4 years ago) that Fausto asked Aldo if the fight accomplished what Aldo wanted. That certainly does make it sound as though the fight was some kind of trap.
I always felt throughout the fight that he was baiting Fernando, but until today I never considered that the fight itself had been in his plans. Now I wonder if he hadn't been seeking the opportunity. I'd like to think not, but Fausto makes it sound calculated.
Julie,
Dad definitely said, "Tambien " which is "also " at the beginning of "it happened to you". In other words, "And now its happened to you too."
It does make me think the fight was planned (he did throw the first punch). It was if he was trying to force something out of Fern.
So if the fight was planned, maybe everything else has been planned, but Aldo fell in love with her for real, just like Fern did. But Aldo says his love is different that Fern ("if I knew she would be totally happy with Fern, I would let her go") meaning mission accomplished and now time to leave.
Diann
Dad definitely said, "Tambien " which is "also " at the beginning of "it happened to you". In other words, "And now its happened to you too."
It does make me think the fight was planned (he did throw the first punch). It was if he was trying to force something out of Fern.
So if the fight was planned, maybe everything else has been planned, but Aldo fell in love with her for real, just like Fern did. But Aldo says his love is different that Fern ("if I knew she would be totally happy with Fern, I would let her go") meaning mission accomplished and now time to leave.
Diann
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 5:47:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 5:47:00 PM EST
The old recap was pretty thorough with the Lety/Ariel and Lety/Fern conversations, but it really glossed over the Aldo/Aldad part.
Keep in mind, what I posted are selected sentences out of the Aldo/Aldad parts. They are NOT the volley of a conversation. i.e. when Aldad asked if the fight accomplished its goals, the "fell into his own trap" was NOT in response to that. It was at a different point in the conversation. Only when two quotes are on the same line - that indicates a reply. Like when Aldo says Fern is a mess, and Aldad replies that Lety still loves him. Sorry to be so confusing.
The "falling into a trap" part, when Aldad said Aldo did the same thing. The truth is, some things Aldad says didn't make sense to me, and that's one of them.
As for the fight accomplishing something, I think that what Aldo accomplished was to give Fernando homework for his trip.
Keep in mind, what I posted are selected sentences out of the Aldo/Aldad parts. They are NOT the volley of a conversation. i.e. when Aldad asked if the fight accomplished its goals, the "fell into his own trap" was NOT in response to that. It was at a different point in the conversation. Only when two quotes are on the same line - that indicates a reply. Like when Aldo says Fern is a mess, and Aldad replies that Lety still loves him. Sorry to be so confusing.
The "falling into a trap" part, when Aldad said Aldo did the same thing. The truth is, some things Aldad says didn't make sense to me, and that's one of them.
As for the fight accomplishing something, I think that what Aldo accomplished was to give Fernando homework for his trip.
Wow Diann, that angle really shakes things up!
First, thank you for the reminder. Yes, it does seem like Aldo's primary goal in the fight was to goad Fernando into publicly declaring that he loves Lety. He probably doesn't know what happened at Santuario. So if he knows Fern loves Lety and Lety loves Fern, maybe he's trying to force the truth out.
Second. Aldo threw the first punch. I don't buy that it was self defense. Later he said "Let Lety decide," as if he was calling a cease fire, but came up and hit Fern again. That was dirty!
Third, you suggest, "mission accomplished and now time to leave." I don't think so. The criteria was not that Fern love her, but that she would be happy with Fern. And right now, Aldo agrees with us that Fern is too much of a mess to make Lety happy. But if Fern does a good job on his homework...
Finally, and this is the part of your post that really turns everything upside-down. Your suggestion that Aldo's goal was for Fern and Lety to be happy together, but in the process Aldo fell in love. That's the first explanation of Aldo that I've ever heard that makes any sense. I always wondered, why did he probe Fern in the rage room to determine if he was in love? Why did he goad Fern into declaring his love outside?
I'm very eager to see if your theory holds up. Maybe it will take a place in my files. I'll put "Diann's Theory" next to "Megui's Theory" (did I ever tell you that one?).
First, thank you for the reminder. Yes, it does seem like Aldo's primary goal in the fight was to goad Fernando into publicly declaring that he loves Lety. He probably doesn't know what happened at Santuario. So if he knows Fern loves Lety and Lety loves Fern, maybe he's trying to force the truth out.
Second. Aldo threw the first punch. I don't buy that it was self defense. Later he said "Let Lety decide," as if he was calling a cease fire, but came up and hit Fern again. That was dirty!
Third, you suggest, "mission accomplished and now time to leave." I don't think so. The criteria was not that Fern love her, but that she would be happy with Fern. And right now, Aldo agrees with us that Fern is too much of a mess to make Lety happy. But if Fern does a good job on his homework...
Finally, and this is the part of your post that really turns everything upside-down. Your suggestion that Aldo's goal was for Fern and Lety to be happy together, but in the process Aldo fell in love. That's the first explanation of Aldo that I've ever heard that makes any sense. I always wondered, why did he probe Fern in the rage room to determine if he was in love? Why did he goad Fern into declaring his love outside?
I'm very eager to see if your theory holds up. Maybe it will take a place in my files. I'll put "Diann's Theory" next to "Megui's Theory" (did I ever tell you that one?).
Interesting perspective - I'm now trying to wrap my mind around this concept. Aldo's purpose was to help Lety/Fern fall in love again, BUT he fell in love instead. Hmm...I sort of like it Diann/Paula. I'll comment on it more after I've thought about it a while.
I definitely missed that in today's dialogue. I did catch his father saying it, but couldn't find the definition for trampas. So I had no idea what they were referring to...
Yes Paula - you're right Aldo says he'd leave if he felt Lety was happier with Fern.
I def think Aldo started the fight, but it was because he thought he was being attacked. I didn't catch it yesterday as I said before, but you could def see it in today's cut.
One thing I want to point out is Lety's body language after she sees Fern outside of the restaurant. She immediately goes back to their former Boss/Secretary demeanor for a few minutes with full on twitchy eye before she remembered that she was actually Pres of Conceptos. I'd also caught her doing that twitchy eye thing with Aldo and even yesterday outside when the guys were fighting. I was proud to see her pull herself together and tell them both off!
I definitely missed that in today's dialogue. I did catch his father saying it, but couldn't find the definition for trampas. So I had no idea what they were referring to...
Yes Paula - you're right Aldo says he'd leave if he felt Lety was happier with Fern.
I def think Aldo started the fight, but it was because he thought he was being attacked. I didn't catch it yesterday as I said before, but you could def see it in today's cut.
One thing I want to point out is Lety's body language after she sees Fern outside of the restaurant. She immediately goes back to their former Boss/Secretary demeanor for a few minutes with full on twitchy eye before she remembered that she was actually Pres of Conceptos. I'd also caught her doing that twitchy eye thing with Aldo and even yesterday outside when the guys were fighting. I was proud to see her pull herself together and tell them both off!
Diann, I know what "tambien" means. I just don't think there's reason to assume that it applies to the entire statement "he fell into his own trap and fell in love with Lety." I felt that it was only meant to apply to the part after "and"; i.e. "you, too, are falling in love with Lety."
I don't know whether the first punch was self-defense or not. When I did the recap, I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. I also have to question whether he would have thrown the first punch if he had calculated the fight. If he had planned it, he probably would have tried to get Fern to hit him first instead of clocking him right away.
I don't know whether the first punch was self-defense or not. When I did the recap, I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. I also have to question whether he would have thrown the first punch if he had calculated the fight. If he had planned it, he probably would have tried to get Fern to hit him first instead of clocking him right away.
Paula, I am watching these episodes now. Thanks for the great post today and all the wonderful dialouge.
Funniest moment so far is when Fern pushed Omar in the closet to get to the chair first then seemed to get the giggles like a little kid.
Ariel, ugh what more needs to be said.
Funniest moment so far is when Fern pushed Omar in the closet to get to the chair first then seemed to get the giggles like a little kid.
Ariel, ugh what more needs to be said.
Permalink posted by : Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 6:42:00 PM EST
: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 at 6:42:00 PM EST
Pata, here's the conversation I'd like to see between Fernando and Marcia:
Marcia: Fernando, you're so immature!
Fern: Oh yeah? Well you're a booger-face!
Good point, Julie. It doesn't make sense to plan to throw the first punch. Especially considering how much Aldo has been provoking Fern.
Marcia: Fernando, you're so immature!
Fern: Oh yeah? Well you're a booger-face!
Good point, Julie. It doesn't make sense to plan to throw the first punch. Especially considering how much Aldo has been provoking Fern.
Aldo tells Fausto, “After the way he deceived her, now the more sincere he gets when he’s with her, the more of a liar he will appear in her eyes.” In other words Lety won’t believe anything Fernando SAYS or DOES. So doesn’t that eliminate all his options? NO! One option remains. He must change who he IS.
Up until the board meeting, several obstacles kept Fernando from a complete relationship with Lety: family, the presidency via Marcia’s vote, public respectability, etc. He lost all those in the meeting, but those were only the external obstacles. He still had a mountain of internal obstacles to overcome – selfish love, lies, impulsiveness, lack of backbone, etc. Fern can't win Lety back until he convinces her to trust him, but he can't do that until he becomes a trustworthy person. The obstacles of the first movement were external. The obstacles of the second movement are internal. What keeps her away is what he must change: who he IS.
Up until the board meeting, several obstacles kept Fernando from a complete relationship with Lety: family, the presidency via Marcia’s vote, public respectability, etc. He lost all those in the meeting, but those were only the external obstacles. He still had a mountain of internal obstacles to overcome – selfish love, lies, impulsiveness, lack of backbone, etc. Fern can't win Lety back until he convinces her to trust him, but he can't do that until he becomes a trustworthy person. The obstacles of the first movement were external. The obstacles of the second movement are internal. What keeps her away is what he must change: who he IS.
That's actually quite a lot to ask of a person - to completely change who they are...I hope that Fern becomes his best self after this trip and keeps some of what was good about him (yes that's my pyscho babble coming out). I think today was a turning point for him and he finally realized at least a little bit what Lety is thinking. He realized in those last moments she'll never believe what he says (right now).
Another point about Aldo - so far I think the only things inconsistent about him have been his flirting (with Luigi and Alicia) and getting into the fist fight with Fern yesterday. Otherwise I find him to be relatively the same albeit a little flat at times. I really liked the bonding and the love you saw between him and his father. Thought it made a really nice contrast to what Fern's upbringing probably was, but pretty similar to the relationship Lety has with her mom.
Paula - What's Megui's theory?
Another point about Aldo - so far I think the only things inconsistent about him have been his flirting (with Luigi and Alicia) and getting into the fist fight with Fern yesterday. Otherwise I find him to be relatively the same albeit a little flat at times. I really liked the bonding and the love you saw between him and his father. Thought it made a really nice contrast to what Fern's upbringing probably was, but pretty similar to the relationship Lety has with her mom.
Paula - What's Megui's theory?
Megui was a Fea expert on the TNWorld BLF forum. I've condensed her post and changed to Mexican names.
I think Fernando falls in love with Lety and not Marcia, not because Lety loves unselfishly, but because Lety is ugly, and for him physical beauty is a barrier to falling in love. To Fernando women are things. He sees a woman, conquers her, has his fun, and throws her aside without thought to her feelings, as you would an empty pen. You don’t form a romantic relationship with a favorite pen! He never knows any of them as a person, so he cannot fall in love with them.
By contrast, Fernando never saw Lety as a woman (once Ariel referred to “esa señorita,” and Fern asked who he meant; there was no woman in the room, only Lety), so he could see her as a person instead. As such he appreciates her qualities, and she becomes a friend – he has a very close relationship with a PERSON. As he dates her he begins to realize that she is a woman, a woman who loves him deeply. At the hotel he gets a glimpse of the enormity of her love. And when they make love, she becomes completely a woman, and he is able to fall in love because she is already a person, not a thing.
If Lety were attractive, Fernando would have seduced her and then dumped her no matter all her other qualities. Lety’s ugliness is the Trojan horse that got her through the gates of Fernando’s wall.
I think Fernando falls in love with Lety and not Marcia, not because Lety loves unselfishly, but because Lety is ugly, and for him physical beauty is a barrier to falling in love. To Fernando women are things. He sees a woman, conquers her, has his fun, and throws her aside without thought to her feelings, as you would an empty pen. You don’t form a romantic relationship with a favorite pen! He never knows any of them as a person, so he cannot fall in love with them.
By contrast, Fernando never saw Lety as a woman (once Ariel referred to “esa señorita,” and Fern asked who he meant; there was no woman in the room, only Lety), so he could see her as a person instead. As such he appreciates her qualities, and she becomes a friend – he has a very close relationship with a PERSON. As he dates her he begins to realize that she is a woman, a woman who loves him deeply. At the hotel he gets a glimpse of the enormity of her love. And when they make love, she becomes completely a woman, and he is able to fall in love because she is already a person, not a thing.
If Lety were attractive, Fernando would have seduced her and then dumped her no matter all her other qualities. Lety’s ugliness is the Trojan horse that got her through the gates of Fernando’s wall.
Poor Fern has there ever been a man who put his foot in his mouth as often as he does every time he tries to get through to someone he loves. On the other hand Lety is so hellbent on hanging onto her rage that she never really listens. Actually the only person she seems to pay attention to is Aldo.
I thought that Aldo in talking to his dad was just as selfish as Fern. He knows now that Fern loves Lety but he considers it selfish, unlike his which is massive and self sacrificing. Lot of ego there. He even pontificates to his father who seemed to be warning him to be careful.
The push Omar into the closet and the fit of giggles was hilarious and now Fern has enlisted Omar to be his Lety stalker stand in while he is away. That sets up all kinds of crazy shenanigans.
Ariel is such a slimy creep I was surprised Lety didn't pull her hand away and wipe in on the napkin. It must have felt like being touched by a reptile, cold and clammy. I would have loved to see her pull a little naco number and toss the glass of lemonade in his face before storming out of the restaurant.
I thought that Aldo in talking to his dad was just as selfish as Fern. He knows now that Fern loves Lety but he considers it selfish, unlike his which is massive and self sacrificing. Lot of ego there. He even pontificates to his father who seemed to be warning him to be careful.
The push Omar into the closet and the fit of giggles was hilarious and now Fern has enlisted Omar to be his Lety stalker stand in while he is away. That sets up all kinds of crazy shenanigans.
Ariel is such a slimy creep I was surprised Lety didn't pull her hand away and wipe in on the napkin. It must have felt like being touched by a reptile, cold and clammy. I would have loved to see her pull a little naco number and toss the glass of lemonade in his face before storming out of the restaurant.
Permalink posted by : Wednesday, February 23, 2011 at 12:46:00 AM EST
: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 at 12:46:00 AM EST
Paula,
1.) I like Megui's Theory.
2.) But I don't quite "get" the Fern must change who he IS. I don't think he can change who he IS, because then he wouldn't be Fern. Maybe its more of change how he behaves and relates to people? But, his whole being can't change, Lety loves who he is, not a different Fern, then how could she love him if he changes his whole being? Nah, maybe the growing up, the understanding of another's needs, the giving of love....yeah, that part needs to change. But don't take away the lusciousness of our Ferny, he has to stay Fernando, but an improved Fernando version 2. Jajaja
Diann
Diann
Diann
1.) I like Megui's Theory.
2.) But I don't quite "get" the Fern must change who he IS. I don't think he can change who he IS, because then he wouldn't be Fern. Maybe its more of change how he behaves and relates to people? But, his whole being can't change, Lety loves who he is, not a different Fern, then how could she love him if he changes his whole being? Nah, maybe the growing up, the understanding of another's needs, the giving of love....yeah, that part needs to change. But don't take away the lusciousness of our Ferny, he has to stay Fernando, but an improved Fernando version 2. Jajaja
Diann
Diann
Diann
Permalink posted by : Wednesday, February 23, 2011 at 3:44:00 AM EST
: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 at 3:44:00 AM EST
Ooops,
My name got on there more than once...Ooops
D.
My name got on there more than once...Ooops
D.
Permalink posted by : Wednesday, February 23, 2011 at 3:45:00 AM EST
: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 at 3:45:00 AM EST
@deciegirl - you insult all reptiles by comparing Ariel to them. Well...maybe he is like a crocodile or water moccasin.
Paula, Megui's theory is very interesting. Thanks for sharing it.
Diann, your theory about Aldo instigating the fight to prompt Fernando to proclaim his love for Lety is a fascinating idea. I like it. It didn't exactly work out because Fernando had some hesitation but it definitely moved him forward.
By the way, I will be out of town for the next few weeks and won't be able to watch the episodes and likely not be commenting much. Take care everyone and keep the faith!
Paula, Megui's theory is very interesting. Thanks for sharing it.
Diann, your theory about Aldo instigating the fight to prompt Fernando to proclaim his love for Lety is a fascinating idea. I like it. It didn't exactly work out because Fernando had some hesitation but it definitely moved him forward.
By the way, I will be out of town for the next few weeks and won't be able to watch the episodes and likely not be commenting much. Take care everyone and keep the faith!
I have two new songs for you, for this phase.
1. (Can’t Smile, Can’t Live) Without You.
snip:
No, I can’t forget tomorrow, when I think of all my sorrow,
When I had you there but then I let you go.
And now it’s only fari that I should let you know
what you should know.
I can’t live if living is without you.
I can’t live, I can’t give anymore.
2. Amar y Querer (José José)
Casi todos sabemos querer, pero pocos sabemos amar
Y es que amar y querer no es igual, Amar es sufrir querer es gozar (enjoy).
1. (Can’t Smile, Can’t Live) Without You.
snip:
No, I can’t forget tomorrow, when I think of all my sorrow,
When I had you there but then I let you go.
And now it’s only fari that I should let you know
what you should know.
I can’t live if living is without you.
I can’t live, I can’t give anymore.
2. Amar y Querer (José José)
Casi todos sabemos querer, pero pocos sabemos amar
Y es que amar y querer no es igual, Amar es sufrir querer es gozar (enjoy).
I like the Megui's theory. Ah another phase...bring it on!
Good song choices Paula. Now I'm singing along (in my head) to the first songs! Ahh the pain.
I still don't think Aldo planned the fight, I think he probably wanted it - to finally release some of the tension he was feeling between Fern and himself, but planning it for that particular moment - who would expect a mad man (Fern) to come out and interrupt his moment with Lety.
One of the things that I've consistently heard here on this board is that Fern believes Lety is strong and that he has tried to stay out of her way. I think that there have been a few instances in the past couple of day where I see him doing the opposite. It's always when he follows her jealously when she's with another man - it's as if he doesn't trust her enough to resist the temptations of any man. I was especially surprised he followed her to the dinner with Ariel considering he knew how she'd dealt with Ariel in the past. The previous time I saw today was when he immediately ran out to interrupt Aldo's proclamation of love. I think now - that he's finally heard Lety (and Aldo) he'll really be able to believe in his Lety once he makes the necessary changes and his love becomes unselfish. One change he should probably make immediately is that extreme reaction to jealousy, but I think maybe it's probably more cultural than anything.
I had a thought last night as I was supposed to be sleeping - Aldo yesterday made a lot of proclamations about how his love was true and he understood Lety's soul. I now think that perhaps we'll see a little bit of a flip flop as the story progresses and his love may become more selfish as Fern's becomes unselfish. I could be wrong and I truly hope that Aldo will step aside if he feels Lety would be happier with Fern or some other man, but it was interesting that he's the character to say it.
One more thing in response to something I read yesterday - can't remember who made the post (maybe several people did), Lety couldn't believe what Fern said, not because her heart couldn't trust him, but because of all of the actions leading up to that moment. Even his actions from earlier in the day seemed to show that his intentions were for the sake of the company. I've listed a couple of examples that I see supporting this below:
a) Fern accuses Aldo in the meeting of having designs on the company and of being some sort of charlatan pulling the wool over Lety's eyes. (again in my opinion another sign that he doesn't trust Lety's ability to handle her business)
b) outside during the fight he says to her - "you are president of conceptos and you have a business obligation to me." Because he has no right to profess his love to her in that moment because of his relationship with Marcia.
c) showing up to the restaurant during her date with Ariel - seems suspicious especially when he knows how she feels about him. I think it was his showing up here that cemented the thought that he was only concerned about the future of the company...
Have a great trip Silvia!
Good song choices Paula. Now I'm singing along (in my head) to the first songs! Ahh the pain.
I still don't think Aldo planned the fight, I think he probably wanted it - to finally release some of the tension he was feeling between Fern and himself, but planning it for that particular moment - who would expect a mad man (Fern) to come out and interrupt his moment with Lety.
One of the things that I've consistently heard here on this board is that Fern believes Lety is strong and that he has tried to stay out of her way. I think that there have been a few instances in the past couple of day where I see him doing the opposite. It's always when he follows her jealously when she's with another man - it's as if he doesn't trust her enough to resist the temptations of any man. I was especially surprised he followed her to the dinner with Ariel considering he knew how she'd dealt with Ariel in the past. The previous time I saw today was when he immediately ran out to interrupt Aldo's proclamation of love. I think now - that he's finally heard Lety (and Aldo) he'll really be able to believe in his Lety once he makes the necessary changes and his love becomes unselfish. One change he should probably make immediately is that extreme reaction to jealousy, but I think maybe it's probably more cultural than anything.
I had a thought last night as I was supposed to be sleeping - Aldo yesterday made a lot of proclamations about how his love was true and he understood Lety's soul. I now think that perhaps we'll see a little bit of a flip flop as the story progresses and his love may become more selfish as Fern's becomes unselfish. I could be wrong and I truly hope that Aldo will step aside if he feels Lety would be happier with Fern or some other man, but it was interesting that he's the character to say it.
One more thing in response to something I read yesterday - can't remember who made the post (maybe several people did), Lety couldn't believe what Fern said, not because her heart couldn't trust him, but because of all of the actions leading up to that moment. Even his actions from earlier in the day seemed to show that his intentions were for the sake of the company. I've listed a couple of examples that I see supporting this below:
a) Fern accuses Aldo in the meeting of having designs on the company and of being some sort of charlatan pulling the wool over Lety's eyes. (again in my opinion another sign that he doesn't trust Lety's ability to handle her business)
b) outside during the fight he says to her - "you are president of conceptos and you have a business obligation to me." Because he has no right to profess his love to her in that moment because of his relationship with Marcia.
c) showing up to the restaurant during her date with Ariel - seems suspicious especially when he knows how she feels about him. I think it was his showing up here that cemented the thought that he was only concerned about the future of the company...
Have a great trip Silvia!
Paula, thanks for bringing back Megui's theory. Its been a while since I read that. And it rings so true. That is the only way Fernando/Armando knew how to look at women (other than his mom of course). And basically any woman who was not pretty was invisible to him as a woman. But that gave him the freedom to get to know Lety/Betty as a person, like Megui says. See how he treats the cuartel from the get go. For him they are not women, they are 'amigas' and coworkers. So he makes no judgement on them in the beauty category and they are not 'women' to him. In his mind they might as well be men. And since he gets to know them a little as people and human beings with issues at home, at times he becomes their defender/protector.
Going back to Fernando and 'must change who he is', I tend to agree with Diann. Fernando is Fernando, Armando is Armando. They don't need to change the essence of who they are but how they relate to others in general and how they SEE AND EXPRESS THEIR LOVE for Lety/Betty. They need to learn to love without expecting anything back, and to love unconditionally. Fernando is barely beginning to realize that now... that he can't expect Lety to come back to him while he still thinks 'if she comes back to me I WILL BE HAPPY'... he has to change that frame of mind to 'if she gives me another chance I WILL MAKE HER HAPPY'. I agree with Diann that their essence is there and has always been...
At some point in EcoModa (the not-so-sequel of YSBLF), Betty tells Sandra [when Sandra tells her that maybe she can turn Mario/Omar around the way Betty did to Armando] that 'HE(Mario/Omar) is NOT Armando Mendoza'. (meaning no matter how much you want him to, Mario/Omar will never have the wonderful man inside that Fernando/Armando has (and always did)'.
Going back to Fernando and 'must change who he is', I tend to agree with Diann. Fernando is Fernando, Armando is Armando. They don't need to change the essence of who they are but how they relate to others in general and how they SEE AND EXPRESS THEIR LOVE for Lety/Betty. They need to learn to love without expecting anything back, and to love unconditionally. Fernando is barely beginning to realize that now... that he can't expect Lety to come back to him while he still thinks 'if she comes back to me I WILL BE HAPPY'... he has to change that frame of mind to 'if she gives me another chance I WILL MAKE HER HAPPY'. I agree with Diann that their essence is there and has always been...
At some point in EcoModa (the not-so-sequel of YSBLF), Betty tells Sandra [when Sandra tells her that maybe she can turn Mario/Omar around the way Betty did to Armando] that 'HE(Mario/Omar) is NOT Armando Mendoza'. (meaning no matter how much you want him to, Mario/Omar will never have the wonderful man inside that Fernando/Armando has (and always did)'.
Georgia Peach...
you said...
"I now think that perhaps we'll see a little bit of a flip flop as the story progresses and his love may become more selfish as Fern's becomes unselfish."
That might be already surfacing... especially the way Aldo sounded yesterday in speaking to his father... it almost seems like he has two faces, in speaking with Lety or Tomy he wants to portray total concern for her, but in speaking to Carolina or his dad about him and Lety, his selfishness shows up.
you said...
"I now think that perhaps we'll see a little bit of a flip flop as the story progresses and his love may become more selfish as Fern's becomes unselfish."
That might be already surfacing... especially the way Aldo sounded yesterday in speaking to his father... it almost seems like he has two faces, in speaking with Lety or Tomy he wants to portray total concern for her, but in speaking to Carolina or his dad about him and Lety, his selfishness shows up.
I do like Megui's theory. It makes a lot of sense.
I watched the fight this morning ("My Dinner With Ariel" will have to wait till tonight). I do think Aldo's first punch was instinctive and defensive. Fernando was angry, and was coming at him fast. There's even a look of faint surprise on Aldo's face afterwards, like, "what just happened?"
But his second punch was inexcusable. That was an attack. He had a chance to let the fight cool down, or at least be the bigger man, but he decided to go a different way.
The only reason Aldo doesn't come out of this fight looking a lot worse (morally, not cosmetically) is because Fernando was still more physically aggressive throughout the fight... in response to Aldo's constant baiting.
Also, on reviewing the fight again, I saw that they didn't exactly play "tug-of-war" with Lety as I had remembered. But they did each grab her possessively.
Maybe the purpose of this fight is to mark a turning point. If, as Marta suggests, Fernando is becoming more selfless while Aldo is becoming more selfish (yes, ocean-man Aldo puts the "fish" in "selfish"!), perhaps the fight marks the point at which they each begin this progression in earnest.
I watched the fight this morning ("My Dinner With Ariel" will have to wait till tonight). I do think Aldo's first punch was instinctive and defensive. Fernando was angry, and was coming at him fast. There's even a look of faint surprise on Aldo's face afterwards, like, "what just happened?"
But his second punch was inexcusable. That was an attack. He had a chance to let the fight cool down, or at least be the bigger man, but he decided to go a different way.
The only reason Aldo doesn't come out of this fight looking a lot worse (morally, not cosmetically) is because Fernando was still more physically aggressive throughout the fight... in response to Aldo's constant baiting.
Also, on reviewing the fight again, I saw that they didn't exactly play "tug-of-war" with Lety as I had remembered. But they did each grab her possessively.
Maybe the purpose of this fight is to mark a turning point. If, as Marta suggests, Fernando is becoming more selfless while Aldo is becoming more selfish (yes, ocean-man Aldo puts the "fish" in "selfish"!), perhaps the fight marks the point at which they each begin this progression in earnest.
Oops, that was GP's idea, not Marta's. Sorry! Credit where it is due. But I agree with Marta that Aldo is showing two faces.
Of course he can't show his more selfish face to Lety, because that would freak her out (even more than she already is). But we see it too. If he truly loves and cares for her, then getting other people's advice on how to get into her head is obviously wrong - incorrect and unethical. Lety has to be the one to let him in.
What he needs is to get to know her and build their relationship and strengthen their rapport. He has to do that WITH Lety, at a pace that's comfortable for her. Not by pumping her friends for information behind her back.
But that doesn't matter to Aldo if this is more about accomplishing the conquest than about Lety herself. He wouldn't be looking for shortcuts if this was really about Lety.
Of course he can't show his more selfish face to Lety, because that would freak her out (even more than she already is). But we see it too. If he truly loves and cares for her, then getting other people's advice on how to get into her head is obviously wrong - incorrect and unethical. Lety has to be the one to let him in.
What he needs is to get to know her and build their relationship and strengthen their rapport. He has to do that WITH Lety, at a pace that's comfortable for her. Not by pumping her friends for information behind her back.
But that doesn't matter to Aldo if this is more about accomplishing the conquest than about Lety herself. He wouldn't be looking for shortcuts if this was really about Lety.
Looks like New Age Aldo is just another Neanderthal. He says he is giving Lety time and space but yet constantly tells everyone around him that he love her and then tells her. It is WAY too soon and he knows it. Even worse he knows she still loves Fern but he continues to back her into an emotional corner. Just like Fern in the beginning, he wants her and will use any tactics he can to get her. Fern used his charm but Aldo is going at it almost behind her back by pumping everyone about her, getting ammo to use and at the same time convincing her loved ones and friends that he has her best interests at heart. Maybe he does, maybe he is only concerned with himself. In many ways he is just as much a sneak as Fern was only much smoother.
Permalink posted by : Wednesday, February 23, 2011 at 11:26:00 AM EST
: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 at 11:26:00 AM EST
Diann, you asked about “Fern must change who he IS.” Maybe more of HOW he is than WHO he is. Yes, it is Fern who Lety fell in love with. But on the other side, Fern is selfish, Fern is a liar, Fern is a manipulator and user, Fern is spineless, Fern is enslaved to others’ opinions. Those things right now are part of who he is, and those things must change before Lety can trust him.
GP, you said that Fern’s jealous behavior indicates distrust in Lety’s strength. I think, as you said at the end, that it’s cultural. It seems like one of the TN rules, and perhaps it’s in the culture as well, is that jealousy is a proof of love. So Fern is insanely jealous because he’s insanely in love.
Why couldn’t Fern admit his love for Lety publicly? Remember, his inability to admit his love for a fea has always been a weakness for him. He couldn’t even admit it to Omar until the morning of the meeting. Heck! He couldn’t even admit it to himself until well into her rejection.
Lety almost believed Fern's pleas at the restaurant, and then she turned to stone again. I don't think it was based on reason, but fear. Her firm conviction that Fern doesn't love her overrules every rational thought. Then she just grabs at any available justification for her distrust.
GP, I like that observation, “Aldo's love may become more selfish as Fern's becomes unselfish.” And Julie’s point, that the fight may mark the turning point when they each begin this progression in earnest. Good one, Julie: “Ocean-man Aldo puts the fish in selfish.”
I’m frankly amazed that we’re able to analyze Aldo this much. This whole phase of Aldo-ness was the invention of Televisa, and I always said that they painted his character poorly. Now I have to reconsider.
Martaivett: Good point, that Fernando has to change from “she will make me happy” to “I will make her happy.” And remember, that was Aldo’s criteria – if he knew Fernando could make her happy he’d step aside.
Deciegirl, you said, "Backs her into an emotional corner" - exactly!
GP, you said that Fern’s jealous behavior indicates distrust in Lety’s strength. I think, as you said at the end, that it’s cultural. It seems like one of the TN rules, and perhaps it’s in the culture as well, is that jealousy is a proof of love. So Fern is insanely jealous because he’s insanely in love.
Why couldn’t Fern admit his love for Lety publicly? Remember, his inability to admit his love for a fea has always been a weakness for him. He couldn’t even admit it to Omar until the morning of the meeting. Heck! He couldn’t even admit it to himself until well into her rejection.
Lety almost believed Fern's pleas at the restaurant, and then she turned to stone again. I don't think it was based on reason, but fear. Her firm conviction that Fern doesn't love her overrules every rational thought. Then she just grabs at any available justification for her distrust.
GP, I like that observation, “Aldo's love may become more selfish as Fern's becomes unselfish.” And Julie’s point, that the fight may mark the turning point when they each begin this progression in earnest. Good one, Julie: “Ocean-man Aldo puts the fish in selfish.”
I’m frankly amazed that we’re able to analyze Aldo this much. This whole phase of Aldo-ness was the invention of Televisa, and I always said that they painted his character poorly. Now I have to reconsider.
Martaivett: Good point, that Fernando has to change from “she will make me happy” to “I will make her happy.” And remember, that was Aldo’s criteria – if he knew Fernando could make her happy he’d step aside.
Deciegirl, you said, "Backs her into an emotional corner" - exactly!
I'm reconsidering Aldo as a hastily-added character too, Paula. The more we go around and around with all the "clues" we have into his mind, the more of a mystery he is.
Of course, that could be the result of poor planning. But are hastily-written characters usually so enigmatic, so perfectly balanced as to be completely ambiguous the way Aldo is? And if the ambiguity is due only to poor planning, then why is Aldo doing such an excellent job at stirring the pot, both in Conceptos and here on Caray (again)?
Of course, that could be the result of poor planning. But are hastily-written characters usually so enigmatic, so perfectly balanced as to be completely ambiguous the way Aldo is? And if the ambiguity is due only to poor planning, then why is Aldo doing such an excellent job at stirring the pot, both in Conceptos and here on Caray (again)?
There's one obvious thing that Fernando needs to change. He has tried several times to convince Lety that he loves her - but it's all been talk. The last thing she needs from him is more talk. (She gets enough of that from Aldo!)
Fernando needs to DO something positive to show her that he loves her. Passive-aggressive behavior, spying, and fighting with Aldo are NOT positive actions. They don't show love. They just show that he's annoyed that she isn't his.
Fernando needs to DO something positive to show her that he loves her. Passive-aggressive behavior, spying, and fighting with Aldo are NOT positive actions. They don't show love. They just show that he's annoyed that she isn't his.
Aldo’s criteria – if he knew Fernando could make her happy he’d step aside.
that's the problem, with the two-faced persona he is showing lately, I am not so convinced that he would follow through on what he has told others (not Lety), that he would step aside if he knew Fernando really loved Lety. And on top of that, he, like Lety, is predetermined to not trust anything Fernando says because neither Aldo nor Lety consider it even a slight possibility that Fernando is truly in love with Lety, unconditional unselfish love that is.
Back in Acapulco, when Aldo first saw Lety, I think he identified himself in her, in her pain and sorrow for the deception/betrayal they each suffered.
So I am still on the fence regarding whether Aldo loves Lety AS LETY and FOR LETY or if he just wants a 'partner', someone to fill his own voids and loneliness. Because lately he is behaving almost as childish as Fernando, unwilling to lose the contest. on the other side of the coin, I am kind of giving him some benefit of doubt because even his dad was surprised that Aldo would state he is truly in love with Lety (again, Lety not matching his old standard, just like in the case of Fernando).
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that's the problem, with the two-faced persona he is showing lately, I am not so convinced that he would follow through on what he has told others (not Lety), that he would step aside if he knew Fernando really loved Lety. And on top of that, he, like Lety, is predetermined to not trust anything Fernando says because neither Aldo nor Lety consider it even a slight possibility that Fernando is truly in love with Lety, unconditional unselfish love that is.
Back in Acapulco, when Aldo first saw Lety, I think he identified himself in her, in her pain and sorrow for the deception/betrayal they each suffered.
So I am still on the fence regarding whether Aldo loves Lety AS LETY and FOR LETY or if he just wants a 'partner', someone to fill his own voids and loneliness. Because lately he is behaving almost as childish as Fernando, unwilling to lose the contest. on the other side of the coin, I am kind of giving him some benefit of doubt because even his dad was surprised that Aldo would state he is truly in love with Lety (again, Lety not matching his old standard, just like in the case of Fernando).
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