Caray, Caray!

Vivi another record time recap!

I loved MA telling Miguel off at the end. I only wish Tav had been there too. I think either MA and Solita had a talk abt the fire or she realized the coincidence of her being in jail when the fire occurred was too much.

Lucia looks ready for war. Excited to see the sparks explode!

And I thought it was funny that Tav turned again and remembered Lucia's crime enough to remind Miguel of it. Should we hold our breath to see if he still remembers once in MAs office?
 

Carvivlie- I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. :)
 

If anyone can take a stab at figuring out the timeframe, I'd really appreciate it. We went from women having invisible pregnancies until they were 9 months pregnant, to women looking like they are about to give birth when they only got pregnant what seems like less than a month ago. If Ester is so far along in her pregnancy, then Mari's and Solita's babies should be much older.
 

Vivi, I really needed this recap since I missed the show tonight and didn't record it. I feel that I did not miss a thing with your very excellent recap and insightful observations. Thanks.

I especially liked the title. Yes, the venganza is ON and the MUD is being mixed as we write/ speak. So, glad Maricruz finally realized what happened to her abuelito. I still think Ester should run as fast as she can even if she suddenly looks 6-7 months pregnant.


Jarifa
 

Vivi, nobody seems to worry much about continuity in the few telenovelas I have seen. It seems sloppy to me and is annoying but it seems to not be a big deal to The producers/directors. Some things I just don't get.

Jarifa
 

It's just so odd. One week ago, Ester boinks JA and then suddenly announces she's pregnant. Now, she's super far along. Telenovelas do usually play with time, but this one is b*tch slapping time all over the place.
 

Finally! Let's get with the mud already.

I'm missing these episodes but it sounds like things are finally happening, even if those things don't make complete sense. That's to be expected in this show. MA has been all over the place with the original revenge, then revenge on Carola, then revenge on Doris...hard to keep track of all that. If she had stuck with the original plan she might have known to wait until the venganza was done and THEN reveal herself to Octavio. Make him destitute/alcoholic/homeless/whatever so he wouldn't have a chance to take the baby away. Nice to see her a little more focused.

Kelly
 

Gracias Vivi

I really enjoyed MC giving it to Miguel. It s/b really interesting when she lets Lucia have it.
ABC can do a good job when she has sth to work with.
 

Vivi thanks for recapping a second day in a row! Well MC is about to lower the anvil on Tav and his family. While ITA w/your comments from Monday about not wanting her to go down the Virus path, Tav was so lackadaisical about finding MC while falling in love with MA and becoming Doris's boy toy. I hope the writers don't allow her to back down now that Tav is in cave man mode.

I too hope Lucia can make her date with mud.

The editing and timing continue to be shameful in this tn.
 

Thanks yet again, Vivi!

I do so hope they come out and explain the legal ramifications of being married under a different name. it wasn't fraud, as she truly thought she was Mari Cruz at the time, and then she must have gone through some type of legal name change or something.

I dare not hold my breath though.....
 

When did Ester and JA get married? He kept referring to her as 'mi esposa'. Did I somehow miss the wedding?
 

Thanks Vivi.
Just thinking.....
What if MC did not become so rich and powerful and lucky enough to find her rich father, where would she be.
She would remain downtrodden, sunk in mud, and resigned to her destiny of being poor, marginalized together with her daughter and sister, and forever looked down and loathed by these very rich people such as the Narvaezes and most of all by Octavio who only looks at her with pity.
why she would be forever dreaming of someday she would become rich and do her revenge.
Look how he reacted when he saw his baby in tattered dress. He was going to get his daughter away from the poor illiterate mother.! Oh his insolence!!!
Initially, I was thinking of love will conquer all and I would normally think everything will be forgiven after an initial revenge tasting.
But seeing the Narvaez' reaction to MC/MA, wow, You go Girl, exact your revenge and take no prisoners. None of them felt guilty, all of them are defiant, showing only fear of the revenge and the loss of their wealth. All of them blaming each other. None of them is ready to go to her and cry for forgiveness.
I am not a vengeful person and I probably would forgive readily, but how would you ever give justice to this one. Even if they see MC dressed in her finest and with the knowledge that she is a wealthy woman, in their eyes, (Doris included) she is still nothing. They would probably tell her that no amount of money can cover her stink and no amount of education can change her wildness. That's how cruel and evil they are. Right now for me, Octavio and MC's love is irreconcilable.
But "hope springs eternal" I wonder if there is hope for him, He had already said a lot of hurtful things about MC, I hope he changes.
 

Vida2, you read my thoughts. No one came to say "sorry", because they really don't feel any regrets. And it hurts MC even more. I think, if Los Narvaez came to her for forgiveness MC will feel better and can let them all go out of her life. But they are not sorry. She suffered so much, but they don't care. And I'm sure, never will
Alegria
 

Vida and Alegria- This is exactly what I said yesterday. There actually is no point in going through all this trouble for people who are never going to break. At this point, all she should do is take the ranch, SELL it, give the proceeds to her friend back home, have Lucia and Miguel sent to jail for their murders, divorce Tav, set up visitations where they don't see each other, move away from the island, go live with her sister, learn the rest of her father's biz, find a new man, a real one, not like the Gov, and be happy. Best revenge. She's just going to be frustrated thinking the Narvaez are going to eventually cry, beg, and apologize at her feet.
 

Mari and Tav make a hot couple, but they have never made a good couple. I think it will be pure nonsense when they end with a happily ever after for them. I guess there is lots of tn to go to see if they both mature, but I'm doubtful.
 

Vida- When MC went to the city, we saw she was pretty determined to get ahead by working. Serafina was actually a great friend and very supportive if her and her sister. She sent Mari to the employment agency guy, and he was actually very nice to her and helped her find the job with Don Ale quickly after the failed job with those horrible kids, and Don Ale took her under his wing without knowing she was his daughter. So really, even if she didn't turn out to be a rich man's daughter, I think she would have made her way just fine with her can do attitude, and the kindness of the friends she made along the way. I sure wish she would get in touch with Serafina. Heck, she could even be the go between for Lupita's visits with Tav, with no need for her to see him.
 

Vivi in DC, she is only 19-years old girl. She cant understand this. She thinks, her revenge will make her happy, because now she is not. No one will give her a simple advice - be happy and you enemies will hate you more.
I'm also sad, because no one from the Narvaez family changed. They almost ruined the life of 3 people, one is dead. But they still think, that they are the only victims of this story. And they act like victims. And the worst - our galan is from this family.
Alegria
 

The way time has passed, she should be 20 by this point, maybe even 21, who knows with this tn. :)

If she actually would speak to some her friends like Tobi, Serafina, or Santa, and told them everything that's going on, they would actually be able to give her advice. But she is guarding this so closely, no one, not even Raiza and Juanita who know bits a pieces, know the whole story and what she's planning. And even they have advised moving on at times, since it's obvious these schemes aren't making her happy in the least.
 

Miguel is the easiest one to get revenge on because has such a weak character and he loves the ranch. Very easy to turn into a sniveling alcoholic.

But Lucia is made of steel and hard to break, and Tav is made of Teflon, everything just slides right off. All three of them are missing their sensitivity chips.
 

MC can't be 20. She was 18 when she was pregnant. Lupita is not 2 years old child.
Alegria
 

She was 19 when she was pregnant. She was 19 when she came to live with Don Ale. The age was very significant because it was the same age as his daughter.
 

Poor Esther. She will learn soon that camping is fun and charming for all of two days but after that not so much. And no air conditioning while pregnant has to be the last straw. She'll be back in the mansion before we know it.
 

Carvivlie- In addition to hot/sticky, open to the elements and bugs, pregant, but also on that little hard bed with two people, while pregnant, when you aren't used to that kind of thing. But Ester seems pretty determined. She's already stopped doing her hair and makeup. Does she even know how to cook? And even if she does, cooking in an open fire outdoor kitchen is an entirely different thing than cooking on a stove inside a house. You'd be in danger of burning yourself and the house down. I could never get used to it in Peace Corps. I hired a neighbor to cook for me.
 

Vivi thanks so much for filling in and giving us this great recap. As with everyone, I was checking the date and time on my phone thinking I went thru some time warp after dinner. Those worm holes pop up in the strangest places.

When they bopped to Ester and JA in their happy new home, I thought WTH, a fast forward now? but NOOOOO. So maybe we're dealing with the alternate universe theory? At this rate back at el Rancho, I expect Ester to be giving birth on Monday.

Back at Isla where you can marry people who are married to other people and your children don't age, we're about to see MC going ballistic on Lucia. Let's hope for a really fur-flying, let her rip girl fight.

At this point, how in the blazes MC and Tav make it to happy land at the end of this TN, which we know they will, is beyond me. I agree they have chemistry, but are nowhere suited to each other in "living happily ever after". At this point, I think Ester and JA have a better chance. But then TN's are great for forcing couples together and giving us those miraculous "they are fine now" endings.

Daisynjay
 

Thanks for this well done, straight-forward recap, Vivi.

Of course Maricruz is right in blaming Lucía for the fire that killed Ramiro, but she has absolutely no way of knowing this. In any event, there is not much doubt that a mudslide is headed our way.

Wow, it does look like Ester's pregnancy is moving right along. It doesn't seem that long ago that I was covering the conception. Time flies.

Carlos
 

Thanks Vivi. You're a trooper. And a gifted trooper at that. Clear concise recap and wonderful analysis of the characters and their defects.

Yes, I guess the JA/Ester wedding ended up on the cutting room floor. Once again, we just have to concede that this isn't Masterpiece Theatre and go with the flow. It's in Spanish and we're learning.

Vivi, loved your Peace Corps story. My grandmother cooked on a wood-burning stove and washed the diapers of her 7 children with well water. The outhouse was a bit of a trek...or at least seemed so to me, as a small child, when we visited.

I can't imagine, realistically, that Ester knows how to cook, whether in an equipped kitchen or that smokehouse that JA built. But again, why worry about reality? As long as the story stays in Spanish, I'll watch.

Mud, mud, mud? Can't see Lucia caving. She's a hard woman with a rock-solid sense of entitlement and no capability for self-honesty or making amends. The confrontation will be interesting.
 

"Llego la hora de mi venganza..." MA/MC muses. Shades of both the Old and New Testament - a very biblical theme. But somehow I think MA/MC will not quite be as satisfied since I think Octavio has the upper hand in terms of MC/MA's love for him.
While we can't predict what the TN lawyers/judges will say about a person who thought her name was MC but later found out that it was MA, this does not seem to me to invalidate the marriage. Octavio married one woman who was he believed to be MC and fathered a child with her. She (and he) later learn she is legally MA. It seems to me that both protagonists sill need to clear up the paper work of their union so they both can be free to contract even more disastrous marriages.
 

Judy- I once found a big snake in my outhouse while I was in the PC. OMG! I didn't even have to pee anymore. LOL! I bolted out of there and got one of my neighbors. Haitians hate snakes with a passion, so the poor guy ended up on the wrong end of my neighbor's machete.

My drinking water had to be boiled, but boiling over an open charcoal or wood stove meant that a little ash always got into my drinking water. Yum! Ah, memories.
 

Vivi, impressive with the Peace Corps!

Yeah Esther has certainly let herself go. But her love will keep the bug bites, the achy back, the hungry stomach, the heat, and anything else we can think of, all away. Because this is TN land and love conquers all! ;))
 

Tav is no longer intimidated by Maria Alejandra now that he knows she is also Maricruz. I'm hoping she shows him otherwise!
 

Thanks for the bullet points, Vivi, and I love that you were in the Peace Corps. I almost did it myself 17 years ago.
Yes, Ester and the shack being pregnant. The bathroom becomes vitally important the closer to the due date. I don't envy her with the outhouse, the heat, the makeshift bed, the cooking and washing clothes in the river.

So we have to pretend we know about Ester and JA's wedding taking place, MA finding out that Lucia ordered the shack to be burned down, and Solita's son's name. Anything else?
 

And how does Areceli know Sonia? We never saw them meeting either, and now their best friends.
 

Cathyx- I think we are to assume that since Ed and Sonia are friends, his fiancé Aracely has become friends with her. Obviously, months have passed. Enough time for Ester's pregnancy to advance and for Ed and Ara to have saved up enough for a wedding.

Time passes for some people, but not for others. It's like everyone's in separate, but parallel, universes.

 

We have had to assume an awful lot with this show.
 

Vida2, Algeria, Vivi, and Daisynjay - ITA with you all that Tav has past the point of no return as for being a galan. You wouldn't wish him on anyone but possibly Doris.

As Vivi said yesterday both Lucia and Tav are horrible people who don't take responsibility for their actions. Perhaps if they both spent some jail time,they may be humbled somewhat but it may take actual hospital time because of serious injury for either to change.
 

I finally realized what couple MC and the Luv Guv look like, Salma Hayek and her husband F. H. Pinault. Granted in real life they are closer in age but Pinault looks like older than 51 and Salma looks a lot younger than her 46. Funny bec when they first got married I thought "why is she marrying that old man? He's rich and powerful but she doesn't need it." Can't believe only 5 year difference.
 

Thanks Vivi---What a trooper you are. The brief bullet points recap was excellent.
Even with a bullet recap, you still got in some great lines---He proudly shows her around their holey shack.---They may find another way to come to an agreement
[mud, mud.mud!!!]---He shouldn't be afraid of a women.[Tav obviously borrowed JA's copy of the
Caveman's Guide to Life.

I can't wait for the Lucifer Maricruz meeting tonight. I think that Lucifer would look good with some mud on her wild eyes. What do you think Carlos, a little mud in Lucifer's overly mascaraed eyes?

I want both things---not only do I want Lucifer to get her makeup ruined in the mud pit, I also want Maricruz to take the ranch, like now! No deals, no playing around, do it!!!

Vida2---You're right, none of them feel guilty, they are all defiant.
None of them want to ask for forgiveness. I say, attack like a lion and give no mercy until all three are down on their knees begging for it. Then give them mercy only if they go out and work to help the poor.

Vivi---Lucia is made of steel and hard to break. Tav is made of teflon, everything just slides right off. Yes, but for how long?

Daisynjay---How in the blazes will
MC and Tav make it to happyland at the end of this tn? At this point, it seems impossible unless either one or both of them have a change of attitude.

It is long since past, but I think that the empty gas container is still out in the tall grass by Mari's burnt out shack. Proof positive of the fire and death of Ramiro, but unless Lucifer confesses to ordering the burning of the shack, how can anyone prove it? Maybe Solita can.
the gringo


 

Gringo, I thought Lucia confessed to Miguel about the fire? But then when MC confronted him about it he acted like it wasn't true...Was this another amnesia episode or am I wrong and Lucia didn't confess? I thought she had to everything...
 

Vivi---You are usually the novela expert. I have forgotten how or why are there two birth certificates. They are both green and supposedly both authentic and legal, one for Maricruz and one for Maria Alejandra. Is that possible?
the gringo

 

Gringo-

Birth Certificate #1: Mari was born in D.F. as Maria Alejandra Mendoza Olivares to Guadalupe Olivares Mendoza and her husband Alejandro Mendoza.

Birth Certificate #2: Then Lupe got ticked off at Alejandro, left him and took her baby with her back to Tamaulipas where she was from. She was SO mad at him, that she wanted to make it hard for him to locate them, and she didn't want her daughter to have any trace of him. So she went down to the local city hall, or whatever, and registered her daughter for a birth certificate under the name Maricruz Olivares (father unknown).

Is it illegal what Lupe did? I have no idea. But Mari was MA before she was MC.

 

Both birth certificates were issued by the government. Neither one was fake or bought in some back alley.

But does the existence of the first one make the second one illegal?

And if so, is any legal matter done under the second one not valid?

It doesn't seem that Mari was ever registered in school or had a state id or driver's license before she reclaimed her first id. So the marriage is the only legal matter under debate.
 

Carvivlie- Don't let the writers make you doubt your memory. Lucia did finally confess her crime to Miguel. That's why he became so digusted with her and distant; leading her to fall for Ewsebio's lies about Miguel having an affair; leading to the near rape of Lucia and the killing of Ewsebio (may he rot in hell); leading to Miguel going on the run and becoming a drunk; leading to his drunken confessions (2 occasions) to Tav about Lucia's crimes (the murder of Ramiro during the second confession).

So, yeah. Both Tav and Miguel know that Lucia was behind Ramiro's death. Will any of them ever admit it to Mari's face, or appologize for it? Any time soon? Doubtful.
 

When Tav came in all smiley that he doesn't have to worry because he married MC not MA, I thought he had inhaled something for dinner and was just delusional in happy land.
But it is an interesting dilemma and got me digging. The legalities are actually pretty interesting, but most answers I found online point to the original certificate that was registered and recognized as holding more weight in cases where two are out there for some goofs on paperwork. However, if MA's mother went through the full process of LEGALLY changing her daughter's name and removed the father and that was authorized in the registers, that one can take precedent. Which would interestingly mean that MA's is the name that is no longer valid--could she lose her inheritance? From what I can gather where it gets messy, it's all about the lawyers and proving who is who and bucks are needed to straighten it all out.

But this is a TN, so I'm sure we will see a whole new set of laws we never knew existed to make the plot work.

Daisynjay
 

Keep digging Daisynjay!

Wouldn't the process of legally changing Mari's name mean that Lupita should have presented the old birth certificate to the authorities and said-- this is who she was? Then they would have taken away the first birth certificate when they issued the new one. (Just like when I became a citizen, the took my old passport, and gave me naturalization papers.) There has to be some documentation of the legal change of names, not just giving you a new birth certificate. And wouldn't the father who was on the original birth certificate have to be in agreement with the change to make it legal?

From the way Ramiro told it, Lupita basically lied, and presented her baby as if she was just getting around to registering her.
 

@Vivi and @Daisynjay - A rose by any other name is still a rose. Octavio married the woman, not her name. In this case, MC had lived her whole life as MC, so she logically chose to use the birth certificate that bore that name. There was no intent on her part to deceive Octavio as to her true identity. Intent to deceive is an element of fraud. Since there was no such intent, there was no fraud. The marriage would be valid regardless of which birth certificate she used.
 

Also, the fact that she now goes by MA is irrelevant. Plenty of people enter into contracts under one name and subsequently change their name. That on its own does not invalidate a contracts entered into under the old name, unless the old name was being used in a fraudulent way (with intent to deceive), and in that case the contract would be "voidable" rather than automatically void. Basically, voidable means that the party that was deceived would have the option to have the contract invalidated, but only if that party affirmatively sought to invalidate it, whereas the party that perpetrated the deception would not be permitted to invalidate it by asserting a different identity, since the law will not permit a defrauder to benefit even further from his or her own deception.
 

I think names and aliases are handled very different in the US versus in Mexico.

I'm sure Alejandro's legal team already had everything worked out to set MA as his legal heir - so no tangles can be introduced there. Done deal.

Tav has no clue as to the law regardless. I think he thinks he has found an excuse that can let him ignore the marriage without getting into (too much) trouble. He hasn't thought through though that this also breaks links with his daughter. If he's not married to MA he has no legal claims on the daughter until he can prove paternity and get court ordered visitation.
 

Actually, I think in Mexico you have to be married under your legal name unlike in the US.
 

So Latina's research says as long as the person with the two names did not intend fraud then it's legal. But Audrey's research says that in Mexico one HAS to marry under one's legal name. And that takes us back to the question of which name is legal or if they are both legal. Ay yay yay! I am SURE the writers have not even given this half a thought, so we might as well give up and wait to see how it unfolds.
 

Latina, I'm inclined to lean toward your analysis of the situation:

"Octavio married the woman, not her name."

and it was her full intention to marry him with no thought of fraud or deception. However, like medical truths, it's likely that legal truths in TNs ultimately depend on the opinion of the writers. And lately it looks as though the basic physical laws are also subject to change based on the whims of the writers. Like Cap'n Picard, they simply have to say, "Make it so!"

Carlos
 

Tav isn't Lupita's legal dad anyway, because Mari did not put him on the birth certificate. he could actually refuse to give her child support, until he has a DNA test to prove Lupita is his.
 

Actually, Vivi, if the child was born during the marriage, he is presumed to be the "legal" father, regardless of whether he is the "biological" father or whether or not he was not named on the birth certificate. And I believe that's the case in both Mexico and the USA.
 

Check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presumption_of_paternity
 

Latina- But then we get back to the question about whether they were ever really married. LOL!
 

WOW!!! It get's confusing. I didn't mean to cause all of this trouble with my birth certificate question. But now that I have caused trouble, I was thinking about JA and Ester. When did they get married it was asked earlier today. Maybe it wasn't a mistake from the writers---perhaps they never married and are just living together.
the gringo
 

And here's the Mexican one: check out Article 324 - http://html.rincondelvago.com/derecho-civil_21.html

Sorry it's in Spanish, but the presumption of paternity during marriage is stated in clause I; and you'll note that in clause II it even says that paternity is still presumed if the birth occurs within 300 days after dissolution of the marriage.
 

Lucia never confessed her husband that she sent Eusebio to burn jalal. It was the only lie in her confession.
I think MC is sure that Lucia did it only because she was the only person who could do it.
Alegria
 

The legality of the marriage is a non-issue for me. In my view, they are married.

Sorry, I won't pretend to be an expert in family law, but I am a lawyer and have some knowledge of the concepts involved, under both American and Mexican law. Of course, as Carlos said, the writers are free to make up whatever they want to make up about the law. For example, I've noticed that TN writers don't really know the huge difference between "custodial rights" (which can always be lost or reestablished depending on changed circumstances) and "parental rights" (which once terminated cannot be restored).
 

Latina- What was the legality of Lupe just getting a 2nd birth certificate for Mari with another name? I think that was Gringo's first question?
 

In Spanish, "custody" means "custodia" and "parental rights" means "patria potestad".

Here's the definition of termination of parental rights: "The process by which a parent's rights to his or her child are LEGALLY and PERMANENTLY terminated."

So basically, once a parent agrees to give up a child's "patria potestad", or loses it involuntarily, that's supposed to be the end of it. Kaput, finito, no going back and claiming any rights in that child. Whereas when the issue is just custody, the parent that gave up custody can still petition a court to change the custody arrangement.

Of course, that's in real life. In TNs, it's whatever the writers want it to be.
 

Vivi and gringo, I'm no lawyer, but I think that it's safe to say that Lupe's acquisition of the second birth certificate was both fraudulent and illegal.

Carlos
 

"Latina- What was the legality of Lupe just getting a 2nd birth certificate for Mari with another name? I think that was Gringo's first question?"

@Vivi - Not sure about it's legality, but it should be irrelevant, since the real issue is the legality of the marriage; and I already stated my view that MC did not intend to commit fraud, so there was no fraud, so the marriage is valid, even if the birth certificate itself was legally defective.
 

Alegria- You're right. Lucia always dodges and weaves when Miguel (or Tav) asks her directly, but the time he really pressed her on it after Ewsebio made his insinuations, her denials seemed really hollow and weren't convincing. That's when he became sure she did the murder, and she really didn't deny it.
 

Vivi in DC, she denied it. In the beginning of episode #41 she said it was accident. And if it was true she will say it to him, because she loves him and bla-bla-bla. It's a quote.
Alegria
 

I think Lucia told Esther what she had done, and that's why Esther left the ranch originally ... she was disgusted with Lucia.

It makes no sense, of course, that she would ever come back.
 

I didn't do any research, but the issue of legal names and marriage and contracts came up in Amor Bravio when the older couple (can't remember names) got married in Vegas. There was a discussion about the Cesar Evora character marrying under a false name which would normally make the marriage invalid in Mexico, unlike in the US. But since they were married legally in the US, that would make the marriage valid in Mexico. Anyway, the villain went to a lot of trouble to marry in the US. But he eventually got in big trouble for with the law for using false names on legal contracts, etc.

But, definitely, the writers will decide what the law is anyway. And the law is wishy washy in Isla Dorada anyway.
 

Audrey- How can you forget Dionisio, who thought he was a god to match his name? LOL! And of course poor Agustina/Gussy.
 

Oh right - in Mexico there are fingerprints on the marriage certificate, not so in the US. That was a big reason the Evora character married in the US to avoid giving his fingerprints. Then they used the original marriage certificate to prove his false identities AND that he was a bigamist!

That might be a plot point here, well, except for the writers!

Agree that Maricruz committed no fraud obviously.
 

Thanks, Vivi, was wracking my brain!!!