Caray, Caray!

Hey, Peeps! Well, Sev made this a truly sickening episode. I really feel like showering, throwing up and well, just yuck! An the way Aldonza said "he didn't hurt me"! WHAT! I may go back and bold that! As usual, I welcome all corrections and expansions.

Please. Please have at this episode and don't hold back, all opinions and perspectives welcome. Candy and Sev were so disgusting this episode I just don't know what to say. Come on peeps, have at it!
 

Lila, this was a difficult ep to watch and probably even more so to recap. Thank you so much for a terrific job. I felt slimey watching that horrific scene with Sev, ugh! Wish I had invoked my PPPC (Patio Peeps Privilege Card) and skipped it. I think all my lights flickered off briefly when he licked Aldonza's face, did that happen on the patio too?

Well, couple of offhand comments:
Please, don't let anything happen to Camilo, he is my senior hottie.
Where is the parakeet Dona Irma gave Adelina?
What, Aldonza is draining off all the Santuario's water for the townspeople, what?

J in Oregon
*Can't get that scene off my retinas*



 

Lila, wow you are fast.

Al was really stupid to go out alone after dark. The whole thing with Sev is just sick, sick. I think it is time for Al to do a little target practice on him.

I am surprised that Dom doesn't know what is going on. She really needs to ream Cande out for this one so someone needs to tell her pronto. I hate to tell Cande this but I do believe that Dom cares more for Cris than Cande and if she needed to choose sides, it would be Cris.

Mari is so wrong for this part, I just skip over her scenes.

I hope next week brings us better episodes, this week has been just awful.

Rosemary Primera

 

Thank you J in Oregon! I'm nearly speechless with disgust. I'm not mad at anybody for wanting to make money, but this kind of perversity is not necessary to turn a buck or for ratings.

So, I know Camilo needed to be tended to but the way Aldonza's reaction was written. . .what, he didn't hurt me and later that night she's having fuzzy flashbacks about this animal's son?

I KNOW CRIS IS NOT THE RAPIST but the foundation of this whole story is so perposterous. This whole relationship would be a no go after yo' daddy rapes me? Twice? I'm sorry, that was sexual assault tonight which he executed specifically stating that he was doing so under her conviction that he is her father and confirming for us he would have raped her anyway even if he knew that to be true.

Damn. Damn. I just don't even know what to say.
 

Thank you, Rosemary Primera. Dom DOES care more about Cris than Cande. Her sick gloating as he sat slumped in his room totally dejected was just SICK.
 

We might need counseling on the Patio.

J in O
 

J, I know it's a Friday night after a long work week for everybody. I'd hope there'd be some gathering and talking tonight but I need to get on to bed and pick this up tomorrow. I was warned this novela was dark but I guess sick should have been added.

I just commented on the weekend post in response to someone's saying they held back from saying on this board that Aldonza should have fought back. My response is I agree with her wanting to see some fight in Aldonza. To want that is NOT blaming the victim. WE are the ones being victimized with the way the villain IS portrayed as all powerful and the victim as submissive and even denying any harm was done. That is vile and vicious! I repeat. This was a second sexual assault on Aldonza. This, combined with the way they have written her as flighty and flaky, NOT struggling against the PTSD of the first assault earns them a big FAIL in selling this love story. There is NOTHING they can do to make this believable when "they" have raped the leading lady for a second time and rendered her too terrified or oblivious to the gravity of it to report it! A leading lady who can gloss over this kind of violation yet love the perpetrator's son with undying love that flip flops as if she were picking petals off a flower saying, "he loves me, he loves me not." Shame on them!

Ok. Let me get my tail in the bed. I'm out here railing on the patio all alone! See y'all in the morning!
 

Thank you, Lila, for struggling through this. I'm feeling pretty hopeless after watching it.

I must beg everyone to realize that it's not just "fight or flight"...it's "fight, flight, or FREEZE." As painful and confusing as it is to watch, Aldonza's reaction is one of many completely normal and common possibilities. Every person reacts differently in times of crisis. As difficult as it is to watch this fictional version of events, there are plenty of factual accounts, easy enough to find online, from women who froze. Rape is bad enough without asking a victim to meet certain behavioral expectations.

We can't even get people to not get defensive when something happens on the show that mirrors their real-life experiences that's a far less sensitive situation than this. So, clearly, all our talk does matter to people, and sometimes they get hurt without us having any intention of being hurtful, so can we please be careful with this topic?

And, let's be real. She's a character. She has no agency that the writers didn't give her. There's no point talking about how "Aldonza should have...." It's "The writers should have..." or "I wish the writers would have...."

I really want to stress that Aldonza's reaction is NOT unrealistic. It's not the way we think things should be, but it's the way things very often are.
 

Gracias, Lila. This episode may have been even more difficult than the original rape episode in the beginning of the series. I especially thank you for translating his lines because I was too busy screaming at the screen for Aldonza to fight, bite, scream, whatever.

Kat is right in that her reaction wasn't unrealistic, but it was also inconsistent with her character. If I were the one female writer on the team for this series I'd have her fake her own death, leaving a suicide note that blames Severiano, and disappear for a while, lamenting that I couldn't watch the investigation. Candela's brain would explode from her increasingly tight braids, Cristobal would disown both parents, and Renato would apply for a job with the county prosecutor's office.

More after caffeine, but once again, Lila, you really took one for the team this time. I have never shrunk from difficult episodes but this one could have done it for me. When it was over I desperately wanted to take a shower and have a stiff drink.
 

Well. This was difficult. Thank you Lila for escorting us through this mine field.

I think Cris is beginning to get the measure of his parents. In an early scene, Sev tells him "You are my only son, my only legitimate son. So you will inherit however little or however much I have."

Cris responds: "Keep it. I'm not interested in anything that comes from you."

(Okay, you all know how bad my Spanish is. If I didn't get that right, please let me know.)

As for the sexual assault scene, I simply don't know what to say. I come from a time when men were expected to use their superior strength not to abuse weaker people, but to be the "head of the household" which meant to provide for, and protect your (weaker) wife and children from whatever harm might exist. I simply don't have a context with which to intelligently discuss what happened last night. I was appalled.

David
 

Last night made my stomach turn.

You really took one for the team, Lila. Thank you.
 

Half a mug of tea later...

David, you're right about that line. That is what Cris said.

I am wondering whether Camilo will resign or say that this is a job for a younger man. I would recommend at least a half dozen men in shifts and an expensive alarm system they can't afford.

Adelina will probably continue to press Aldonza for why she was upset. She has to talk because of Sev's threat that he will return as many times as he pleases. That could equally be an empty threat but Aldonza can't afford to take that risk. Adelina will suggest that they return to DF and Aldonza will refuse again.

She needs to tell the Padre. She can tell him in the confessional booth to prevent him going apeshit on Sev and endangering himself. Actually, it will not matter who tells him at this stage; the confessional is the way. If villains can get away with boasting of their crimes in every other story and they are not currently doing so (I'm looking at you, Candela) why not give us something different for a change and have a victim tell on them?
 

Lila: Both Severiano & Candela need ANVILS big time!


 

Steve, I see you can thank Urban for her post, but you can't thank Lila for watching, translating, summarizing and posting. Clearly you are deliberately choosing not to thank the recappers.

It is rude and frankly I think that you purposely want to be rude.
 

Absolutely awesome job Lila. Don't know how you got through this one.

"Cris’s voice, demeanor, posture all scream defeat but the sick and twisted Cande looks for all the world like she just busted a nut as she clutches the phone and follows her shit-eating grin out of Cris’s room"

I had to keep telling myself this is a show, this is a show but I'm just sick this morning and it won't go away. I kept pleading for her to scream but that was easy for me to say. I understand why she shuts down and if I'm honest with myself may do the same. I want Aldonza to tell Silvia.

What an ass Emmanuel has become. He is buttering both sides of Mari's bread cause she has promised him a pony. He's one of those cute but stupid guys and you don't marry them.

Least Renato & Aldonza could have done is have Pato serve the divorce papers or given him a heads up. Guess they want to destroy the guy.

Why in the heck Cris still stays at that house I cannot figure.

I thought Simoneta would break in to speak with Flavia and urge her to reconsider, she too abandoned her child.

 

Lila, my dear, you have our thanks for having to take a very difficult episode for your recapping. You did it justice and just the right amount of detail for us. Thank you. The hugs on the patio are waiting for you. <<<>>>

I'm with David, what is there to say. It was disgusting. From an acting perspective, the actors were amazing, but from a story telling perspective, I'm not sure all of it was necessary to get the point across that Sev is still Allie's nightmare come to life. I someone gulped down my whole glass of wine in that short time and didn't even realize it.

I agree with you Kat that in reality, there would be many different types of reactions by the victim, but as we watch this TN, our reactions are one to hate the villain and want to save or protect the heroine. We want her to kick the hell of him, to scream till the rafters ring even if he threatens, you get my meaning. So we do have a tendency to what if and why didn't she because we hurt for her.

Like I said yesterday, she already is a broken young woman who no longer is the same person we even saw roll into town. She keeps trying and she keeps getting shut down. She is starting to close people off and taking advantage of others in her desperate attempt for this plot of land she's hung her star on. But what I have to say in how this story progresses, we have her dealing with the trauma right now that it may be her own father abusing her, and then even if that proves not true, that scum is still the father of the man she loves. Frankly, I don't see how you get past that, especially with her not having professional help or someone to really work all this through. I tell you, and I have no idea how this ends, but to me, the only way you put a pink bow on this is to discover Cris is NOT Sev's son after all and everyone can disassociated the rape with him in the context of being related to Cris. It's still horrid, I still don't like she has no one to really talk all this thru with (I'm sorry, Ade has proved worthless in that regard), but it may make it more palatable in a writing perspective.

Enough with this stupid E-man confusion stuff. I hate they are painting him so stupid, and again with the booze. I feel like that's a big old red alarm bell for something coming up.

I don't like where the dialog with Mel and Dom was going. Hum better get there and get that man the help he needs for whatever ails him.

Off for errands before the storms move in.

Daisynjay
 

I have previously said that Candela couldn't give an infinitessimal damn about Aldonza. However, I think her brain would explode if she realized she is married to a rapist.

Am I imagining it or do her braids look tighter in every episode?

I agree that Dominga cares a lot more about Cristobal than Candela does. Candela's gloating over the Valeria situation is sickening. I hope this won't be the case for all 63 of the remaining episodes.

I dearly hope that Emanuel can settle his love life before finding out that Severiano was his sperm donor. He doesn't deserve this. As someone who had a toxic mother I would tell him that it is better to have grown up without that kind of abuse from a bio-parent. He has a good perspective on Prudencia and Valeria, but probably still needs to realize that Humberto was too weak to fight back.

Did I hear it correctly a few episodes ago that Sev gave Hum child support dinero all those years? If so, why would he have done that?
 

Good Morning, Y'all! Only read 2 comments so far. Thank you Urban and Diva! I may not be able to respond to everyone individually in bold and I really want this discussion to flow so I'll pop in from time to time but I do intend to read EVERY comment. I NEED to, after last night's show. I thank you all in advance for being a part of this community on this dark morning on the patio and I appreciate every point of view. What will be difficult here is realizing this IS a fictional portrayal which will touch some real life and personal events and that the line is thin and sometime blurred between what we express about the episode and writing and how that may impact some real life experiences.

Sorry for that long sentence. My point of view is that the writers are raping our strong heroine who has been given an impossible foundation as the beginning of a love story: to build an enduring bond with the Love of her life who is also the son of the man who was her mother's lover, for whom her mother killed the heroine's own father and who viciously raped her and has sexually assaulted her again making sure to use the humiliating and demoralizing factor that she believes the rape is being done by her own biological father. This is vile and an assault on the viewers and feels as if the writers are punishing Aldonza for the sins of Roberta. It truly feels as if we are being subjected to the writer's sadistic and auto-erotic fantasy dressed up as a love story.

The ARE being inconsistent with Aldonza's character and I feel like they are not only punishing her for the sins of Roberta but for BEING a strong, smart, survivor of the trauma inflicted upon her by Roberta and Severiano. AND THAT SUCKS HARD and is a separate issue from whether her freezing was realistic or not.

My ire and judgement is directed SOLELY at the writers and not at any man or woman who has been the victim of a sexual assault!

Uuuuf! I feel better. Let me get some breakfast. I'll be back. I love you all patio peeps and any heat is directed at these people who ARE perverting a beautiful and entertaining art form.
 

Lila...Thank you for covering this mess with restraint. Some points I would like to make. How can a man with one arm, using that arm to caress the face of his victim hold her so firmly that she could not get away from him? I have an unpopular take on Mari/Eman. At least the woman knows what she wants and go after him, unlike Lola who has her head up her rear. Am inching my way into the M/E camp. I agree, why would Aldonza not confide in Padre J? He is her uncle and confidant, surely her would take action on her behalf. Serving Don Camilo after she and tia have eaten (left overs for him) how demeaning. Is it just me or is their house really creepy. Even Pru is disgusting me now, as I have always kind of liked her. I still maintain, the woman can really dress. Ser/Cande.......No words to express my dislike for them. Cris and Aldonza, a perfect match, both stupid.

I do really like Silvia, Renato and Pato. Silvia seems to have her head on straight, Renato and Pato.....LOVE. Padre J.......LOVE even more.

I guess I will be sitting alone at my table this morning, but just had to get my thoughts out there.

With all my complaining will see you all Monday. Happy week-end fellow peeps.
 

"It truly feels as if we are being subjected to the writer's sadistic and auto-erotic fantasy dressed up as a love story." *nods* And I'm with you on feeling like there's no way to come back from this. I know they're going to give us the big finish with some kind of happy ending and a big church wedding, but I don't know how.

Meanwhile, Cris now knows that he was taken to Val's house against his will and woke up naked in her bed with no memory of how he got there or what happened. His mom is jumping with joy that her son was kidnapped and might have been raped, because in her eyes it was done by the "right" woman. She's forcing him to play nice and talk to his rapist on the phone. And if she gets her way, he'll marry his rapist and be stuck with her for life. But other than a little awkwardness in getting out of Val's house in the morning, the show is choosing to present this as not really being a big deal.

And on top of all the other stuff that's going on, they're threatening us with danger to two of the protective figures on the show--Don Camilo and Melesio. If they were trying to create a massive sense of unease, they've succeeded. But I think they misjudged how much unease I, for one, can tolerate, especially going into a weekend, when we can't move on to whatever is going to happen next for what's going to seem like an eternity.
 

Thank you, David, I come from a time when men were expected to use their superior strength not to abuse weaker people, but to be the "head of the household" which meant to provide for, and protect your (weaker) wife and children from whatever harm might exist.

I come from this time as well, David. It IS apalling. I am continually amazed at how the censors have no problem with sexual violence yet cut and edit the hell out of loving expressions of sexuality. There are no words.

Thank you, Sara! I hope you hang out with us more on the patio today.


 

Thank you, dear Tofie! I was able to do it knowing you guys would all be here. WE would be here together. It IS sickening, Tofie. The writers have had Aldonza turn on us: they've stripped her of her smarts, she won't listen to reason from any quarter, she runs immediately, mocking her own vows of undying love to Cris. She claims to be destroyed by the possibility that she and Cris are siblings but REFUSES to take the DNA test even once Cris assures her it can be done without Sev and then the write in this second graphic, stomach-turning sexual assault! No wonder you feel sick! So do I!

Least Renato & Aldonza could have done is have Pato serve the divorce papers or given him a heads up. Guess they want to destroy the guy. Yes, Tofie! This is why I say they have turned Aldonza into an ally of Cande and Vile. What the TOTAL F***!

Good call on Simoneta, Tofie. Thank you!
 

Thanks, Daisynjay! Like I said yesterday, she already is a broken young woman who no longer is the same person we even saw roll into town.

Amen. It feels like a cruel joke and a stiff middle finger in the face of the admirers of this strong and proud woman! On top of that they have isolated her and she has NO ONE to confide in through the first, and now the second horrendous assault.



 

Thank you, Emeraldrose. The Mari/Eman/Lola/Pato/Silvia thing is getting infuriating because I notice how dumb and flighty the two "country bumpkins", Eman and Lola, are being made to look. Pato and Silvia are the most sensible and really need to be together. Renato's going to go crazy and lose his life over Al-Dunce-ah (I claim and need to trademark that) not a spoiler and the two "dumb" country folk are going to end up together.

Happy weekend to you, too, Emeraldrose!
 

Thank you, Diva:

His mom is jumping with joy that her son was kidnapped and might have been raped, because in her eyes it was done by the "right" woman. Yah. That's how sick it is! I could quote that whole paragraph, Diva.

And on top of all the other stuff that's going on, they're threatening us with danger to two of the protective figures on the show--Don Camilo and Melesio. If they were trying to create a massive sense of unease, they've succeeded.

Diva and y'all. I feel like we're a frog in a pot of water that has been slowly heating until we find ourselves in this offensive, boiling mess and now we can't jump out!

Hang with us, check in from time to time throughout the day. I know you all have chores and errands and hopefully fun stuff as well this weekend but stop by, I will as well, and I think this can help us get over this latest shock and outrage. We can make it!
 

Lila, I agree with your assessment of the writers' motives for doing this to Aldonza. This is an example of really sick misogyny in a culture that should know better. I wonder sometimes whether some of these writers wouldn't prefer to take us back to the Stone Age.

Except that had there been no strong women then, there would now be no human race.
 

Before La Sombra gets up to 100 plus comments which has been the case lately, I'm going to publish my rant/comment, call it what you will. Here goes---Last Thursday
there were comments posted with the general drift that Michelle Renaud was doing an
"ok" job but that she needed or could use a little more experience. The gringo says nonsense to that as Michelle is doing an excellent job. She started acting as a child in 1992 and although being in her 20's not 30's or 40's she is doing great work. Being what is sometimes referred to as a "seasoned" actress or performer doesn't hold water to me. Sometimes expertise comes with long time practice and work but not always. As an example---I have watched and am watching programs on both Univision and Telemundo consisting of young children and early teens competing in singing competitions. While watching I have found that several of the children sing as good as some of the established artists. One might say that in no way are they equal to a Shakira, Thalia or a Jenni Rivera. True, but those are exceptions not the norm. In the same way there are those rare exceptions in acting as well but
as I said in the beginning, Michelle is doing an excellent job---certainly as good as many established well experienced actors. Some may not agree but that's how the gringo sees it.

Ok I said it, now on to the recap.
the gringo
 

I agree and I think she is being short-changed by the writers who have dumbed her character down to create this situation to possibly test her ability.

Which isn't really doing her any favors. Playing a scene like this isn't easy, even if something like this never happened to you. Is there a shrink on the set?

On that note, I really am upset that Cristina Saralegui's Monday night program disappeared years ago. I'd also love to hear what Alexis Ayala thinks of having to play this disgusting scene. Did he have to take a shower and see a shrink?

As for how a man with one arm can do this, remember that Severiano was an expert horseman before the loss. He would have very strong legs that 20+ years later would have developed even more to compensate for the missing arm when controlling a 1200-lb (or bigger) horse. He would also use the element of surprise and trap her against something as he did last night.

What made me angry is that she didn't even scream, kick, or do anything. When he put his fingers near her mouth I was yelling "Bite him! Bite! Scratch!" which is why I didn't hear a lot of what he said.
 

Lila – Thank you for the recap! Bless your heart, you took one for the team … er … Patio by having to recap that sleazy slimy Sev/Aldi scene.

Kat – very good point on the flight, fight or freeze. Thank you for reminding us.

Telerisa hit an all-time low with that scene. Me da asco! And to have Aldonza dreaming of Cris that same night? QTH? A woman having trouble going to sleep would be more believable. Ugh…
I suppose the purpose of the scene was to further exhibit just how sick and demented Severiano is and further seal his condemnation to hell.

Have any of you seen El Manantial? Was that scene in it, too? I am curious (and the answer would not be a spoiler).

It struck me, while watching this episode, that one of the characters will kill Severiano by the end. Most likely: Adelina or Humberto or Simoneta/Viviana.

”Why in the heck Cris still stays at that house I cannot figure.” He stays because he is still completely co-dependent on his parents and has not grown up yet. JMO

Eman’s behavior is so much like Roberta’s … poor judgment, a bit flaky, gets tipsy often, can’t handle a monogamous relationship. Most likely he was “maintained” by Hum & family but not raised, counseled, taught. Oh, wait! Looking at Vile & Pru, that family has no idea about sane behavior, either.


I still don’t get how Mari thought Eman was proposing to her . . .

Joc and Eman and little Ray are now the SL version of "Two and A Half Men".
 

I personally think that Mari wanted to trick him into a proposal. She put out the bait (the loan) multiple episodes ago and took advantage of his drunkenness. She is grossly immature to think that this will work in her favor in the long term. I am assuming that her character is meant to be Aldonza's age and this behavior is bad enough at 20-something. Maybe casting an older actress (30-something?) is really for emphasis on how inappropriate this is.
 

I'm curious, if someone can tell me. This sort of plot line, a young girl raped and bullied by her love's father, at one point thinking it's her own father...what was the reaction when this first ran in Mexico?

If a similiar plot line ran here, my guess is it would be discussed in our media since it would be ab ongoing plot and show, not just a one time episode. We would be seeing articles, reviews, and "experts" would be coming out on how a young girl should handle a situation like this, the help she could get, legal issues involved.Maybe magazine articles as well. This is a more disturbing type ongoing plot line and it would get the attention.

Was there anything similiar locally there? Was this bringing out those discussions or is the audiences there more jaded with these type story lines since, hate to say it, rape does seem to come up as a plot point more regularly in TN's. This one is especially difficult to watch, so wondered if it spurred some PSA type discussions.

Daisynjay
 

Hey, Doris! Thank you for joining us here today. On Mari, while I didn't hear Eman ask "will you marry me" I kind of see how she jumped to that conclusion because he actually swore that he would never leave her! Not that he would never default on repaying her loan: he swore he would NEVER leave HER, not the horse, Solitario. Now. The whole interchange was dumb if you ask me, and he came out looking like the horse's ass!
 

That's a great question, DnJ. I'm interested in hearing the answer as well. I tell you what. If this is the way telenovelas are going, I'm going to have to find me another amusing Spanish-based passtime or we need to develop a pre-screening committee to provide spoiler-free ratings on upcoming shows. Once is enough for this kind of perverse story. This is the only thing I watch other than HGTV and the Weather channel. I pretty much look to carefully selected internet offerings or old tv and movie favorites. Basta!
 

Urban at 11:52. Yes. It is tiring, isn't it?
 

Lila, thanks for the excellent recap! and for handling the disgusting parts so smoothly.

Doris, as for how Em finds himself engaged, he used the verb "comprometerse," which has a range of meanings, including to promise, to commit oneself, to become engaged. Similarly, "compromiso" can mean a dinner date, a doctor's appt, or an engagement to be married. The context was Mari's loaning him her savings and her support of the Solitario project, and Em was trying to say he was committed to her and to seeing the project thru, but Mari took it in a different direction. I think in the later scene with Joaquin, Em explained this confusion to Joaquin.

 

Thank you, Anon @3:00 Thank you for expanding on the confusion between Eman and Mari. I really could see her thinking what she thought. Eman used to be very clear-thinking and wise in his advise to Cris in the early days. Yah. I know, this is a woman, his novia, and he's all twitter-patted. Ok, but silly mistake anyway.
 

Thank you Lila. My computer is off getting a tuneup so I couldn't watch this one and after reading it I'm glad I couldn't watch.

The portrayal of the weak males is bothering me. Cris lets everyone tell him what he's to do, start accepting Val back into his love life, and Emanuel getting involved with Mari against his true wishes, is equally annoying. And the portrayal of the females who won't listen to reason is also maddening. Aldonza willing to go along with what her rapist and his wife tell her without question makes me want to pull my hair out, and Lola acting as if she hates Emanuel and then has the audacity to be hurt that he's finally accepted her decision that they won't be a couple makes me want to move down to my eyelashes and start pulling them out next. I'm not liking any of these key players very much right now and it's making me not want to watch.
 

Thanks, Lila, for taking one for the team and recapping this madness. Wow..I guess that I should feel fortunate to have missed that horrible portrayal. I have no idea how this mess of a mess will be resolved. The actor playing Sev is doing an amazing job of portraying this dreadful excuse for a human being. I wonder what anvil the writers have forged for this despicable character to justify his evilness.

I am currently watching ''Outlander'' on Starz which is fascinating storytelling but brimming with violence and sex , and remarkably it has a villain even viler and more sadistic than Sev.
 

Hey, Cathyx! You are welcome and I'm glad to take the hit for ya! What an excellent point about the weak males and head-strong but wrong-headed females! You should've seen Cris last night! He needed to be on suicide watch and Lola is turning not just stupid, but mean! Do all novelas go through this stage where you wonder what the writers are smoking? or why they hate the character. . .or us?

Susanlynn! Thanks! Did you miss it too? Good! It was nauseating! Susanlynn, I guess I'm just an ol' wimp: I can't take all this vileness! Guess I should watch the Care Bears: even the Gummi Bears might be too offensive for me! Why is everything getting so nasty and dark?

If Sev is killed, he must suffer first and everyone must know and revile him for all his despicable depravity and he must KNOW everyone knows, including Cris! It had better be good or this writing team is going on my sh*t list!

 

Thank you urban for the post, And thank you lila for the recap, I know that was hard not to mention sickening. And I agree with you one hundred percent lila, I know this is supposed to be entertainment, but this is kind of abusive and like I said when I gave my comment in the post, I'm just about to quit watching this telenova. the writers have this poor girl being weak and in freezing mode and I know that in certain situations some people react differently but in other situations, this man would have had the crap beat out of him he'd have been bit and slapped and scratched and kicked, that he would have known that he was attacked by his victim. To hell with effect they need to do something to help this woman get over this victim slump she's in.they're not giving her any therapy help. she can go and confess to a padre J they need to give her some help do something cuz this is very depressing to watch.. I read, I think it was In the post one of the post comments where somebody was saying that all the writers of the show are men they need to talk to their wives if they have wives and they can give them a heads up this aint working. Have some empathy for this character.

I thought I was through ranting I probably should give it a break this is the weekend I'm supposed to be relaxed and happy. I don't get how a mother could be so happy knowing that her son is about to be married to such a vile disgusting person.she'd rather see him miserable than to see him happy with someone he loves and someone who loves him. that Is how sick cande bitch is. I wouldn't mind one bit if they killed off candela & sev. But they wont. Have a good weekend peeps.
 

Whatever happens to Severiano he's gotta be taunted, licked and slobbered on first
 

Lila..heh...I am with you. Right now, I am watching CozyTV...''Gidget Goes Hawaiian.'' The worst that the bad girl has done is spread unfounded rumors that Gidget went '' all the way ''with Moondoggie. The bad girl's anvil will be going out on a surf board with the Gidg.A simpler time in films and TV shows, for sure.
 

Tofie...that means that Sev should end up in prison where he will become the abused instead of the abuser.
 

Lila,

Thank you for your recap. This was not an easy episode.

All you recappers are great, Diva, Sara, Eli. You guys bring it every night! And thanks to the patio peeps. Mr. LN and I are usually a few days behind so I don't comment very often, but we read each other the recap and comments over coffee and find our outrage and amusement supported there.

I agree with the points being made about the "freeze". That's the whole point of terrorizing someone: turning them into someone who can't fight. Aldonza can wallop Cande, Abelardo, and Val, but when faced with Sev, she becomes helpless. I hope the writers allow her to recover and work through this, I'm hoping she gets to deliver that final anvil herself.

I'm so irritated with Lola's actions and the actress' cloying, whining petulance that I hope she ends up alone.

I cannot comprehend any reason for Adelina's actions re Emmanuel. If her whole reason for living up to now has been caring for Roberta's child, why doesn't she show any interest in finding and caring for Roberta's other child.? I realize she thought she/he was dead, but now that there is a distinct possibility the child lived, why isn't she hung ho on finding him?

Love Padre J. Love Silvia (but I have a hard time understanding her, is it just me? ). Love Pato. His scene chemistry is great with EVERYONE.

Emanuel needs to stop drinking and spend more time at the barn working on his dream.

I was totally traumatized by little Ray's crying two episodes ago. It looked like they told that little actor that his dog was just hit by a car. Not cool.

I'm also traumatized ever time I see Juaquin's beautiful blue eyes. He is killing me.

Uriel and Irma are killing it!

Thanks again all you Caray Caray people.




 

Lila- I have to run, but wanted to thank you for the recap, and for taking one for the team. Wow! Sounds like this was a good episode for me to miss. Maybe I'll just watch the part with little Ray.

Best comeuppance for a rapist I've seen in a tn was La Malquerida, where Alberto Estrella's pump was attacked by the women he pimped out with fists, nails, high heels, and many blows from a knife to his groin, leaving him without his member. Then he was made some dude's prison girlfriend, before being set on fire. Yikes!

All I can say is at least Aldonza doesn't think her rapist is s nice guy, like Renata on Perdone, who has been duped into thinking that the husband who raped her THREE times is a changed man. Ugh!
 

To the point about Candela gloating over Cris and Val, I think one of two things is going on here:

1. She is delusional. She has lied to herself for so long about Aldonza that she is actually believing her own lies.
2. "If I'm not happy, nobody can be happy." Whom have we heard say that in a past series?
 

LN
You said:

Love Padre J. Love Silvia (but I have a hard time understanding her, is it just me? ). Love Pato. His scene chemistry is great with EVERYONE.

I also have a hard time understanding her!

I absolutely love Jauma Mateo(Pato.) Such a presence!
 

Thank you, Nina for your passion and coming to share during this time when the patio seems to have turned into a forum for protest and support. I agree with you:

. . .they need to do something to help this woman get over this victim slump she's in.. . .

That along with making her refuse to tell Cris, or Padre. Adelina knows about the first assault but not the second. Sev even threatened Adelina's life and Aldonza is going to remain mum about it! And yes, Cande's attitude toward Cris is unforgivable. Her hatred of Aldonza is such that she might as well have told him to rape her. She disgusts me!

Tofie: Whatever happens to Severiano he's gotta be taunted, licked and slobbered on first WORD!
 

Susanlynn at 4:41, Girl, I tell ya! "Gidget Goes Hawaiian" sounds darned good to me!
 

Thank you LN and Mr. LN Your point about the freeze, first pointed out by Diva, is well taken. And your observation fits in with my sentiments and those expressed by Nina, above: I hope the writers allow her to recover and work through this, I'm hoping she gets to deliver that final anvil herself.

Here's something that has gotten lost on me in the frustration and outrage over Aldonza:

I cannot comprehend any reason for Adelina's actions re Emmanuel. If her whole reason for living up to now has been caring for Roberta's child, why doesn't she show any interest in finding and caring for Roberta's other child.?

What a great point! I hadn't even thought of that! That is absolutely puzzling! Maybe her fear of the havoc Sev would wreak on her and Aldonza for revealing that 20-year old coverup overcomes any love she might have for Roberta's "other child." Poor Eman's origins HAVE been rejected by everybody except Padre J!

Yah. I pride myself on watching without (Spanish) captions and only using them to clear up fuzzy stuff, but I cannot understand Silvia! She sounds like she's blowing raspberries in Spanish! Sheesh!

Little Ray WAS crying for real and Jock's eyes are mesmerizing but somehow it didn't hit me til the episode where he caught Flavia sucking face with Adriano in the plaza!

LN, it is interesting the amount of sensitivity and respect the grief over Lardo's death is being treated with yet rape and continued bullying and sexual intimidation is just a plot device and no consideration is being given to Aldonza's emotional reaction at all! Even to having her say Sev "didn't hurt her" in this last lewd and piggish assault!

I thank you for your appreciation of this Sombra team for Eli, Hellashelle, Diva, Sara and me!

 

Vivi! Hey, Girl! I was wondering where you were! Yah, Vivi, y'all who didn't see it make me feel even better for having given it the detail that I did. As Sara said, "Recappers: We watch the crap so you don't have to!" (Where do you guys get that little TM symbol?)

Vivi, we all long for Sev to lose the offending appendage but that would mean death because his whole person is vile and offensive. He MUST suffer terribly. I want Uriel to half kill him and then have him live intubated and unable to do anything except swallow for an extended period of time while that Univision eposè show, "Aqui y Ahora" does a comprehensive series on him. Sev will be propped in front of the tv and forced to watch it over and over. One day Uriel will get a hold of him when he's alone and finish the job.

Ok. I know that's silly but it's the closest to mirth I've gotten about this show all weekend!
 

Maybe it would be boring to most, but I could get behind a break in the tense action and have a day in the life of the working stiffs of SL. That would give us the Scooby Gang at the law firm (Sylvia sure seems busy), the action at the manse with the beautiful horse, Irma and Lola actually waiting on people at that adorable ribbon shop, and Mr Gorgeous Eyes and E-man of the Bod Squad actually showing us what the heck Allie wanted to plant.

We would have no Sev, Cande Pru, Hum, Val or Mari. Especially the last two since they don't know how to earn a living.

Daisynjay
 

Urban at 5:11, you are right on both counts. As sick as the action has gotten and the way she bursts in on Cris and is salivating over the prospect of him being with Vale, I'd have to add this one:

3. Cande sees Vale as an alter ego and if Vale gets Cris, it is like she, herself, has wed her own son.

How about THAT?
 

Lila - trademark symbols is word( & trade ; Person's name ) with no spaces.

word(™Diva)
 

Okay, let me see.

Poopy cakes!( & trade ; Lila) is a substitute expletive for SHIT!

Thanks, Sara! If it didn't work, it's totally my fault!
 

oops. Hmmm. I'll delete these after I figure it out.

Poopy cakes! (&Trade Lila)
 

Okay. Enough wasted space. I'll practice in an html editor!

:/
 

No spaces. I had to type the spaces so you could see the characters to type.
 

Daisynjay! Hear! Hear! for a beak in the action!
 

Poopy cakes!(™ Lila) is a substitute expletive for SHIT!
 

I DID IT!!!

Thanks, Sara!!

:D
 

My take on Adelina; she's the type of personality who doesn't make waves and doesn't want anything to upset the apple cart. She goes along to get along, we've seen her keep mum about some serious secrets in order to keep the peace. Emanuel is just another complication that she's suppressing.
 

I guess so, Cathyx. Eman IS connected to some pretty big complications but it is strange that she didn't even express any anguish or excitement that the "lost baby" had been found. I think I remember a tiny bit of excitement when she thought the "baby" was Lola. I remember her encouraging Aldonza to stay close to Lola. The prospect of it being Eman didn't seem to awaken any such feelings. Weird.

GET E-MAN SOME FAMILY LOVE!!!
 

Yall heres a thought: what if the powers that be are workin ally up to a "I 've had enough moment." Remember the movie jlo was In called "enough" where she married this twisted guy she met in her restaurant where she works, she married that SOB and he would beat her all the time and she just got so sick of it until she decided she needed to do something about it, and this guy taught her how to fight and what to expect and he told her what to do where to find certain things in the house, and then when he came home looking for her thinking that everything is going to be alright she was ready for that bastart and she was mad.She beat the crap out of him.He was cocky just like sev is. she didn't kill him but she beat the crap out of him so when he got up he stumbled and fell over the balcony.
she got fed up and maybe Aldonza needs to get fed up.

Nina
 

Works for me, Nina! Anything that causes maximum pain without immediate death is what Sev needs. He needs to be exposed and demoralized and shamedbefore all of SL and all the people who look up to and fear him as big boss man or good ol' boy. He's got to go down LOW and HARD!
 

My ideal comeuppance for Severiano is that Cande, Cris, Hum, Val, and Melesio learn of his raping Aldonza. These are the characters whose shunning and disgust will have the most impact on him. And that's not to say I don't want him to go to jail for everything he's done, but their knowledge of how vile he is will have more of an impact on him than jail will.

 

More and more, Sev and Cande remind me of Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner in "The War of the Roses". This is not going to end well for either of them.

One day soon, I would love for a very large, hungry alligator come out of El Santuario and eat Sev limb by limb. Of course, all of SL would need to be there cheering the alligator on!

Rosemary Primera

 

Thank you Lila and all the rest of the recappers. Y'all are the best!
My hope is that Aldonza takes a machete to Severiano's good arm. Watching Sev totally dependent on others for everything, even wiping his behind (although please, writers, don't show us that!) would be better than just seeing him in prison.
 

Cathyx, you are right! Having Cande, Cris, Hum, Val, Mele, Dom AND Pru know he raped Aldonza is only the beginning of justice! Everybody should know, of course Padre J., Irma and Uriel, Lola, Eman, Renato, Silvia and Pato, the Chief of Police, EVERYbody! The burning of the huerto and his role in burning Raimundo's body and Roberta's apartment and Abelardo's murder. EVERYBODY needs to know EVERYTHING! But yes, the ones you name are those whose rejection and condemnation will effect him the most!

Rosemary! I like it! I like it!

Thank you Anon@10:24! You reflect my wish for Sev in my comment at 7:06. Helpless, dependent, shamed and preferably in great psychic and physical pain. Anon, are you Nina having forgotten to sign her name?

:D
 

I can't help thinking that Sev and Cande's horse farm is being set up for some hard financial times what with his last knowledgeable employee, Mel, now in questionable health, and with the drought.

Sev needs to be exposed publicly for each and every thing he has done, then convicted for life to the worst prison in Mexico where he will be very popular with the inmates because, since he only has one arm, he keeps dropping his soap in the shower.

I wish we could get some history of Sev and Cande to explain why they became what they are as adults.

David
 

Thanks, Lila. I think you're right.

Candela probably would not care about Sev raping Aldonza, whom she irrationally hates. Neither would Valeria. However, would they make the leap to the idea that there could be other victims?

I have no doubt that Cris, Melesio, Dominga, Uriel, Emanuel, and Humberto would do something.

It's a foregone conclusion that Candela and Sev will rack up more points toward serious Karmageddons. For now my guess is that he will commit suicide and she will end up in the manicomio. Considering how those braids are constricting her brain I'm surprised she's not there yet.
 

I agree that everyone should know about the rape. But I listed only the people whose opinion would have even the slightest impact on Sev. So I didn't include Pru on purpose. And she's one who would overlook bad things if it got what she wanted. Cande, Cris, Hum, Val, and Melesio are the only ones who he would care even a tiny bit what they thought of him if they knew the extent of his depravity. Actually, now that I think about it, Hum could be off the list because he already knows and is still on his side.
 

David, I agree about Sev's punishment, absolutely! More back story would added much to the story and maybe reduced the need for so much sneering and violence on Cande and Sev's part. As I stated earlier, Cande's expression of her hatred for Aldonza has become almost comical. No. I wouldn't want my son to marry the daughter of my husband's lover but this displaced hatred of Aldonza is just psychotic! Aldonza is NOT Roberta! Yet, she continues to live with the man who actually had the affair with Roberta when all the golden eggs are in her basket! Ok, Ok, Sev brought the prosperity with the horse business but he is floridly psychotic as well! Why does HE hate Aldonza so! Because she has "his land" that his grandaddy "gave away" in payment of a poker debt? (Grandaddy had a habit not unlike Lardo, whom he had murdered). Sev said he covered the loss of his arm with the rape of Aldonza. How sick is that? When she was a baby did he fantasize about raping her when she grew up? And now he continues to torment her and fully intends to sexually assault her at will? I think he hates ALL women! He SEEMED to be deeply affected when Cande busted him and cut him off but I don't think he really loved her: she was just part of his facade as faithful family man and prosperous, benevolent boss of Santa Lucia. Aldonza seems to continue to represent Raimundo, Raimundo's grandfather, all women and even Cande. He HATES her dominance over him. He cannot have her sexually and so he symbolically rapes her and all the aforenamed in his sick thirst to feel powerful.

Castration and loss of the other arm seems a minimal punishment!


 

Mornin', Urban! Couple questions: Right about Cande somehow wanting to be Cris's bride through Valeria? And. . .

I have no doubt that Cris, Melesio, Dominga, Uriel, Emanuel, and Humberto would do something.

Do something to Sev? I guess I should go back and read the comment you're responding to! :)

Thanks! Back in a bit! I'm hungry!
 

LN & Lila, good points about Emanuel and the only person that cares is PJ. He knows he is not related, yet wants to uncover the mystery. Five people knew of the child and all have frustrated his inquiry and one of the reasons I have no respect for Adelina. None.

Cathyx, perhaps wishing something away as a coping mechanism is a family trait and see it in Roberta, Adelina and Aldonza.

No way Cande, Pru or Val would believe Severiano raped Aldonza.

The only person I've seen clever enough to lay a trap for Severiano and catch him is Silvia. Even if it didn't work initially she would not rest until they do. Severiano would be a dead man walking if Aldonza told her, Silvia would get evidence and the beast wouldn't know what the hell happened.


 

The only person whom Severed has show the tiniest bit of real affection for is Chris. He is an egotistical loner, but he might be hurt when Chris FINALLY learns about Dad's dastardly deeds. Also, the waterfall has had such an important part in this tn, so perhaps SeVered will finally be reunited with the real object of his desire and meet a watery death..glub..glub..glub..goodbye. You have been chasing after this place your whole life...now you have it.
 

Tofie...ahhh...great idea. If Silvia finds out , she could become Al's best ally and Severed's worst nightmare. She is smart, persistent, and focused. Yes. I would love to see that.

I am a little confused about Sim/viv approaching Flavia. Did that have any meaning , or did Sim just remember Flavua from SL.
 

Not sure about why Sim/Viv hovered or if she overheard the conversation. She noticed a woman weeping and it seemed wanted to comfort her but when Adriano arrived and they chatted backed off. I'd like to think she heard Flavia say she abandoned her child to be with Adriano and the difficulty she was having with leaving her child somehow mirrored what Sim/Viv did. Perhaps Sim/Viv will seek her out to warn her of the folly but I heard Adriano say they needed to get out of town.
 

David..Yes, our backgrounds have a lot to do with the people we become...for better orfor worse.Some people can overcome a less than ideal childhood while others cannot and it shapes and directs their lives..tragically so. All we know about Severed's background is that his abuelo was a drinker and a gambler who lost the family lands. Then, Severed managed to marry a rich woman while having an affair with a hot mama. We know nothing about Candy except that she grew up wealthy on that beautiful estate with Dom as her nanny....who evidently braided her hair.
 

As I'm not an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth type of person, I don't like the vulgar examples of punishment. If we believe what he has done is wrong, how can we commit the same vulgarites that we condemn? So a long prison sentence is what I wish for Severiano.
 

I agree that Adelina has become useless.

In the beginning of the series I wondered what sort of a backstory there was to that family. What sort of family environment produces one daughter who is a whore and the other a virginal martyr? Now I want to know why she was so hot to find the daughter she thought Roberta gave birth to but now no longer cares at the prospect of that baby being a young man instead. Does she seriously think that Emanuel was OK growing up in Humberto's house? Humberto who was Satanic Sev's accomplice is taking him away from Roberta and almost killing her in the delivery process? Humberto, who is the father of Valeria?
 

Adelina got some explaining to do at some point if this thing ever unravels. Yes, she wanted to be with her sister for the newborn Aldonza but it had as much to do with her love for Ray. She also blamed herself for sending Ray to his death by intimating something going on between Severiano and Roberta. I wonder what she would have done had the murderer not been her sister but Severiano and Roberta asked her to remain mum?
 

Tofie! Yes, she wanted to be with her sister for the newborn Aldonza but it had as much to do with her love for Ray. Oh my goodness! Let it not be that Adelina care's less because Eman is Sev's, not Ray's! That could be it, that she is as much or more bound to love Aldonza because she is Ray's but willing to overlook Roberta's parentage because the father is Sev?

Cathyx, point well taken about those whose opinion would affect Sev more as I did note in my listing of the other people. It certainly is more impactful for those he "cares" about most to know what a dog he's been. Those people you names are the ones who seemed to respect him despite knowing "he has his character". And please pardon our gory and sometimes vulgar comeuppance scenarios: expressing them is both stress relief and a response to the vulgar Severiano and I know I've contributed heavily to that nasty list of anvils!

This portrayal of evil has been shocking and vulgar describes Friday's sexual assault perfectly. I'm just glad that in whatever zeal drove the writers to these extremes, they didn't have Aldonza get pregnant! I would have to have bailed if THAT happened!
 

Interesting point. My recommendation to her would have been to take baby Aldonza and run without looking back.

No matter what made Roberta become what she was she was useless to Aldonza. Adelina was her real mother in every way that mattered. While nothing seemed to endanger Aldonza during her childhood there was always the possibility that Sev would have harmed her to be rid of the possibility of a future Alcocer descendant coming after him. Had he been Ray's murderer and Roberta demanded that Adelina keep quiet this would have been far worse.
 

My take on Ade is that the thought of a girl, or Lola, being Roberta's gave her another child she could help replace her sister. E-man, as the man child, is more the reminder that Sev is the father. In her own way, she is doing a subconscious pairing like Cande, but not nearly as overt or full of hate. More interference.
Her character has bothered me repeatedly in this story as someone on the surface who seems to be caring and understanding, but if you listen to her, see her lack of trying to truly help or bring in Padre J to what is happening (if anything she fights him), she seems to be ineffectual and a problem more than a driving force for good. She also has a little too much of a "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude when dealing with people that is bit off-putting for me.

I like some of the symbolism in TN's--at times, and we seem to get one with Sev in the use of fire. I wonder if that will be a clue to his undoing...or how he loses everything. No spoiler, but I could see Cande losing it and as her revenge against HIM and everyone else, she burns the manse down. Boy, I could sort of get behind that scene. (As long as people and horsies are safe.)

Daisynjay
 

That should have been Indifference with Ade!! Hate the auto changer on this thing.

Daisynjay
 

I can't imagine that. The mansion is her inheritance and Cris's future one. I do see her losing her mind eventually, but maybe the crazy will do something like give her the strength to kill Severiano defending Cris or something like that.

Or, who knows? She might get cold enough to offer him the Roman option: Suicide or disgrace. He did say in a recent episode that he would kill himself if he received a revelation like being married to his own sister, as they were lying to Cristobal. However, he might kill her first.
 

Lila, you took the words right outta my mouth. Severiano is the father and I don't think Adelina wants to know the truth. While upset it was Roberta's child it was much easier to believe the child dead.

I still want PJ to know what really happened to his brother.
 

WOW!!! WOW!!! Friday's episode has set off a firestorm. I think that the peeps out on the patio are near ready to riot. More coming but first------

I don't want to be accused of being rude and I really, really do appreciate the recappers. At least now I am not on the street asking strangers that look Hispanic if they saw the novela and if they did, can they please tell me what happened at that point when----

So THANK YOU Lila. Good grief you are on fire this weekend. I don't think that I have ever seen you or the patio crowd so worked up. Lila you said have at it, so here goes what may turn out to be several comments.

Ok---I will get this out of the way first as it is the point of most of the anger for both yesterday as well as today. The assault on Aldonza. At first I was angry at Ali. I was nearly yelling at my tv to scratch him, stomp on his foot, kick him in the shins etc. What I wanted most--MOST, was when Sever had his lips on her, I wanted her to bite him so hard that at the very least he would need stiches on his lip and at the very most, he would need surgery to repair a half bitten off lip. However, I got none of that. All that I got was a whimpering Aldonza afraid to do anything. Did I say that I was angry? Damn I was mad. If Ali had done that, she probably would have taken a strong blow or maybe two but corrective surgery on Sev's lip would have been worth it. As I think back, I guess that I wasn't so mad at Ali as I was with Sever. I wanted him to suffer, to get back some of his own medicine. However that isn't what the writers wanted to give us.

I remember a long time ago when I was in the 7th? grade. It was on the weekend and I was playing with a friend. A much bigger boy, a bully came by and started causing trouble. It was scary but somehow I managed to say something to my friend that made him laugh. This enraged the bully didn't hear what I said but assumed that I was making fun of him--I was. He was going to beat the living daylight out of me. I froze in fear---pretty much like Aldonza did. I don't remember everything that was said but between my friend and I, we managed to talk ourselves out of the confrontation.

Diva said that people react differently in those kind of situations. True. Some get angry and go into fighting mode, some try to talk their way out while others tremble in fear. I am no longer angry at Ali, she did what the writer told her to do
Sev will get his at some point down the road or lake. Alligators? Well we have had hungry wolfs before.
the gringo

 

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Daisnjay, I like this, very plausible: My take on Ade is that the thought of a girl, or Lola, being Roberta's gave her another child she could help replace her sister. E-man, as the man child, is more the reminder that Sev is the father.

Tofie. Ok, get you re the taint of Sever as the father of the lost baby. Him/her being an Angel is MUCH better than being the living seed of Satan! And yes. PJ HAS to know what happened to his brother! AND his colleague, Padre Sixto. Would Hum out Sev if Sev is disgraced knowing that he, Hum, is an accomplice to that murder?

Brother Gringo! YOU are the riot! At least now I am not on the street asking strangers that look Hispanic if they saw the novela and if they did, can they please tell me what happened at that point when---- HAHAHAHAHA!

You are right, Gringo, the lurid and graphically suggestive and filthy assault by Sever using his mouth and words coming out of them did indeed start a firestorm. The writers catapulted us right into the middle of sensitive ground as we have been seeking to critique and criticize the writer's offering vs. that of a person being violently and sexually assaulted. They hit a sore spot and we're all still throbbing! I think all of us probably yelled at our tvs and those of us who didn't see it are happy we didn't.

Now we're dealing with the aftermath and some of us are describing the anvils in details which match the action we saw Friday and the feelings it awakened in us and THAT can be sensitive, too. Surprisingly the four letter words have been few and those used have probably come from me but I meant it when I said "have at it" and all viewpoints welcome as long as we don't go after each other, we are fine.

So. Come on back, Gringo. I just hope the writers don't give us anything much darker or perverse than they've dished out already!





 

Wow. Sara. I could just quote your whole comment. We know Roberta sure had her faults but your comment is a fair defense of what she tried to do for Aldonza.

Sara. How would you and others, IF you would, compare Roberta to Candela as a mother from what we've seen thus far, not speculating on an unseen past?
 

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Sara, she was emotionally abusive to Aldonza. That is much bigger stuff than living in poverty. The inheritance she left may have come from her guilt.

Both she and Adelina failed Aldonza in their inability to have normal relationships with men. Roberta had no self-esteem and a person in that situation has no ability to teach self-esteem to her child. That would be like me trying to teach you how to speak Russian. They can talk a good game about "You have to have self-confidence!" but they have no clue how that happens. Adelina appears to be psychologically healthy until you see that she has a martyr complex. What did she do for so long other than cleaning up Roberta's messes?

As for the Padre, he is a psychologically healthy person, but doesn't lead a normal, secular life. His status as a priest stands in the way of Aldonza getting a proper picture of the sort of man she should hope to marry and have a future with. And what happens when she brings a male friend home to meet her family? She and Renato find Roberta and his father in flagrante delicto.

Money isn't everything.
 

Aldonza would probably have been better off if she had gone away to school, just as Cristobal was.

True, Candela is far more controlling and she has a streak of sadism that Roberta lacked. But whether Roberta's emotional abuse (we did witness her alternate between neglecting Aldonza and yelling at her) would have a similar effect. A child can't figure this stuff out and even knowing this years later doesn't help that much, especially if there are forces trying to destroy you.

Don't ask how I know.
 

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Hi everyone! THANK YOU LILA! I had a hard time keeping my dinner down when I watched Friday's cap, so I am in total awe that you recapped it and so very well. Golly Gee, just wait and see, Tia! Yeah, what is with this girl? Sigh. I must comment below on that. But this is just a great example of how you really captured the feel of the scene and the reactions. Your recap of Sev and Aldie's traumatizing scene perfectly captured the nauseating effects of Sev's actions. A hat of to you, ma'am.

Kudos to the writers for giving us characters that we want to know more about. Negative kudos to them for not giving us that "more". I would love to get into Aldie's head and see why she denied that Sev hurt her to Adelina and Lola. Is she minimizing his stomach turning assualt because she considers her earlier rape so much worse as to render the psyhological torment and LICKING insignificant? Does she just not want to worry them further? Is she starting to believe she's bringing his torment on herself? What is going on in there?

Also, her opening scene with Ade, in which she refuses to discuss actual and current situations (Cris's night with Val and his desire to make his marraige work, her refusal to do DNA testing) and instead gets pumped over her imagined ability to get Hum on her side, even though she misled and embarrassed him in front of the most dangerous and powerful man in town, and even though she's asking him to give up what may be his most valuable financial asset "because he doesn't care about it like she does." Is Aldonza actually delusional?

My take on Adelina - Back when PJ brought Eman's possible connection into the DNA discussion, I also wondered why she seemed content to let things lie when Eman could be her nephew. I agree with those who say it's cold that she'd rather just not know. I think when the missing child could've been Lola, she felt like a stronger connection would be pleasant; Lola's already besties with Aldonza and gets along with Adelina. There's little distance there. I don't think Adelina would know what to do with fully grown, man child Emannuel. There's a much weaker connection there and she has little experience with men. Having Lola around is like having Aldonza around. Bringing Eman into the equation is like having a strange man in the house. And having someone who has a great motivation to try to attack Sev physically, and way more brawn to back that up. She's not consdiering that Eman might want or need a family, emotionally if not financially (thought right now, financially too). The only reason she might see the need to tell him is if he and Aldonza started dating, and she doesn't need to worry about that because of Lola.
 

Not that I'm not reading all the comments (though my brain isn't comprehending everything very well today), but when Adelina asked Aldonza if Sev hurt her Don Camilo and Lola were right there. I haven't seen that brought up as a reason why she maybe didn't want to talk about what happened. I never thought she was actually thinking that she wasn't hurt.
 

I think the lack of Roberta trying to get her life together for the sake of her child had a profound affect on Allie we see now manifesting in all her Mis Plans nonsense. Up to the moment she was discovered with cancer, Allie had little or no respect for her mother. The "mothering" on a daily basis was what Ade was for. Not to say Roberta didn't love her daughter, but she had no clue had to show it, didn't change for her, and continued on a very self-destructive streak over what happen to Allie ( knowing she put Sev in her daughter's path) instead of helping her daughter seek the help she needed and maybe healing together. Then she gets sick, tries to commit suicide and her DYING wish, then tells Allie she needs to not let Sev ruin her life, etc.

Hello guilt trip. Now Allie is all about feeling bad about how she treated her mother and getting back at the man who she think ruined both their lives ( we could have an argument on how much Roberta was responsible for the mess with Sev and leading to Ray's death and Allie has no clue). I argue that if Roberta had made sure her daughter got REAL help for what happened, she would still be hurting, but in a better place mentally and much better able to react and handle things. Cande may be a total control freak NOW, and she has a mental block against Roberta the size of the Great Wall, but she actually was a loving and supportive mother until Allie strolled back into town. So we get the flip, Roberta was a mess as her daughter grew up, Cande is a mess now that her son is older and both these kids are suffering the consequences.

Daisynjay
 

Oh, boy! Can't wait to jump back in gotta run but a few things:

Sara--It's got to be painful thinking you are worthless and not worthy of affection or compassion. Sara and all, THIS is EXACTLY what Sev started with the rape of Aldonza and what he did with Friday's assault, specifically under the conviction she has that he is her father to make it more odious. THIS is EXACTLY how intends to make and keep her feeling!

Thank you, dear Hellashelle I will be back to comment more and also to your latest comment, Diva. Gotta get on the road now, see y'all later. Carry on!
 

One of the issues about entering situations expecting people to hate you is that it's often a self-fulfilling prophecy. Nothing in Roberta's behavior from the get-go was ever going to get her any friends, whether in high or medium places. It really bugs me that we know nothing of her youth.

Candela must have been a normal person before the discovery of Severiano's adultery, which I still think was all about humiliating Raymundo. Or could he have been thinking of killing Raymundo himself and taking advantage of Roberta afterwards? Anyway, the irony of Candela and Sev sending Cristobal away to school is the consequence they didn't anticipate: He's relatively independent of them from an emotional perspective.

No, Renato's father doesn't get a pass and kudos to Renato for not giving him one. I suspect he was a very absentee father in Renato's youth or Renato wouldn't be so desperate for the love of someone distant (Aldonza).

I agree with Hellashelle's assessment of Adelina's failure to embrace Emanuel. She knows little or nothing about men and probably saw Emanuel as too much a reminder that Sev was his father. I'm sure she knows nothing of how he was treated in the Zapata household, but I'm not sure whether she would have any compassion for him if she did.

I also agree with Diva's point about Aldonza saying nothing about Sev's latest attack, but I want to add to it. Most social services agencies and legal authorities don't recognize the effect of this particular kind of attack. It's a sexual attack because of the slobbering and the threats but because no genitalia are involved and Aldonza has not been physically injured there is nothing she can do about it, even if the legal authorities in SL would be anything worthy of their title. No witnesses, so she can't prove it. She is also likely to be concerned about how anyone she would tell would react. Adelina would probably want the two of them to leave SL and go back to DF. Padre J would go apeshit and possibly look to confront Sev. We know where such things usually lead.
 

I want to put everything Roberta has done or was aside for one minute. When Roberta shot her husband in the back and deprived him of his life and to have a life with his child and took away a father to Aldonza, she became a horrible human being. I don't care what happened to her prior. She killed him and desecrated his body to cover a murder and to protect her lover. She then was the beneficiary of the land that was in her husbands family. That was not her land except through marriage to a man she shot dead. She should have squirreled a bit aside for the daughter of that man so in my book, doesn't buy her sainthood.
 

Lila---My story is true. Many have heard it already, some have not. After my first novela which I found by accident, I was hooked. Even though I don't speak Spanish, I found that I could figure out about half or more than half of what was going on but there were places in which I was completely out of luck. I searched the computer for answers but didn't know where to look. I was going half crazy for answers and so I took to the streets asking strangers to help in understanding what I had seen in the novela show. This went on for a while but I never gave up my computer search---one day I found the Caray blog. So it is really true that when I say thank you to the recappers, I mean it.

I really liked the "hell hacienda" that someone wrote. That's so true isn't it.

Here's another quote---"They've come and done the bait and switch. Star agricultural
student to hand wringer". That statement is true too. Aldonza was once smart as well as brave. all of that has now (after her two trauma's) pretty much vanished. I know that the ladies on the patio are angry at her or is it the writers but---in some respect, Cris has done pretty much the same. I remember early on when Cande and Sev forbade Cris from having contact with Aldonza, he defied them. There was talk on the blog that finally a leading man that didn't start out as a wuss. Now however, to some extent, he has lost all of his earlier defiance, I'll do it my way, it's my life attitude.

An example---the phone call from Vile made me nearly as furious as did the scene with Ali and Sev. The phone rings and mommy dearest tells Cris that it's Val and that he "must" talk to her. He didn't want to but mommy said that he had to. At this point Cris doesn't know that Vile is going to pull the I'm pregnant trick on him and so there was really no reason, in his mind, that he had to or should talk
to her. He could have refused the call or taken it and then hung up on her but he didn't. So you see that they are working the bait and switch and soon to be hand wringing on Cris too.

Nina---Cande doesn't think that Val is a vile and disgusting person. She sees Val as a bright upper class lady who is worthy of her Cris.

enough for now. Back later with a question for Susanlynn.
the gringo
 

Another thought---Cris is turning into a hand wringer too. He doesn't love Val and should tell her that flat out. He doesn't love her now and he never will. Also, if she is trying to trick him (Val and him in bed together) into a marriage, it is going be a marriage from hell because he will make sure of it and never forgive her of her tricks.

What do the writers have in store for Cris? I don't know but I'm sure that it isn't what I have just written.
the gringo
 

Let's hope that if Val corners Cris into the idea that the baby is his, that he will get a paternity test for it first. But I doubt he would.
 

Thank you, once again,Hellashelle for your kind words. After our initial shock of the rape, an arson and a hit ordered by Sev seemed tame but I, for one, was not ready for the second assault. Re Aldonza's saying she wasn't hurt, perhaps she was thinking of the immediate need to have Camilo's head tended to but all of these seem plausible:

Does she just not want to worry them further? Is she starting to believe she's bringing his torment on herself?

I believe it's that and the intended effect of Sev's assault which I saw reflected in this comment I quoted from Sara: It's got to be painful thinking you are worthless and not worthy of affection or compassion.

Because Donnie hasn't gotten counsel, either secular or religious for her assault and seems to want to go this alone, she is emotionally isolated and without support!

Why did the writers make a big deal of Roberta making Aldonza swear tha she wouldn't let Sev hurt her anymore and then he's done so repeatedly? Do they narrowly define "hurt" as involuntary penetrative sexual violation. Pardon my being graphic but why did they make her swear and then make her powerless to fulfill the pledge? I hate that! Or, is the only thing that can "hurt" her is his getting that dat-blasted piece of dirt with the water running through it!

As David noted, LA is in for trouble with their water running out. This would be a perfect chance for Aldonza to "hurt" Sev, but we know she won't. Anyway. I'm repeating myself. Let me work my way down comments.

You and others make very excellent points about Ade's not warming up to the idea that Eman could be Roberta's "lost baby." (HS@12:07).

Ade doesn't have any experience with men but look like she's ready to learn with Jock?
 

Hey, Diva at 12:11. I could see Donnie being in shock. Maybe it's too much to think she could say, "I'll talk to you later." Ade knows about the rape but Donnie is so HELL BENT on her dream of a fruitful huerta, she knows if she told Ade that Sev assaulted her again and threatened to kill them both, Ade would tell Padre and try to get him to pressure her to leave Santa Lucia.


 

DnJ--Hello guilt trip. Now Allie is all about feeling bad about how she treated her mother and getting back at the man who she think ruined both their lives. .

You all have probably discussed this extensively and maybe I should read ALL the comments before commenting. Let me just say, though it may be unpopular, that while Sev is wholly responsible for treating Roberta like crap, burning the huerta and all the other crap he did during Roberta's lifetime, Roberta brought that devil into her life and into Aldonza's. Roberta's resuming sexual activity with Sev before her own husband is one evidence of the disrespect/contempt she felt for her husband and the vows of her marriage. And delusional? Roberta was delusional to actually think she was more than a plaything to Sev and that he would leave his rich, social prominent life/wife to take up with the (rightly or wrongly labeled) town slut.

Any guilt Donnie might feel over Roberta is wholly unwarranted.

True: Roberta was a mess as her daughter grew up, Cande is a mess now that her son is older and both these kids are suffering the consequences.

Okay. Let me try to go thru comments so I don't back track the discussion.
 

Gringo - Cris has told Val that he doesn't love her, repeatedly. As far as he knows, he proposed to her, cheated on her, broke up with her/cancelled the wedding mere weeks before it was scheduled, got drunk and begged to be with her, slept with her, bailed on her the morning after and then asked her dad to help him prove that he's not married to his sister so that he could stay married to Aldonza.

In his eyes, he's been a jerk, so taking her phone call is the least he could do.

Can he be firmer with her? Yes, absolutely. But all things considered, he's trying not to be a bigger jerk than he's already been.

As for fighting his parents, he's also been pretty clear on that score as well. He was even set and ready to move out, before Cande lit the incest card and all his dreams went up in smoke. He can fight for his love til the horses come home, but when his wife has bailed on the marriage, there's not a whole lot he can do.
 

I'm actually worried that Cris will briefly consider DNA, but as Val will swear she and LArdo jusr flirted/kissed and all parents will sh** bricks about how rude of a possibility that is considering all he's done, he'll bail on the idea (and then, hopefully, please Lord, secretly get one done post-birth).
 

Another point, and I swear that I was thinking about this during Friday nights episode. Even though it has been mentioned once already, I have to comment about this. --- Ok, so Donnie is afraid and in need of protection and so upon Mel's recommendation, she hires Camilo as a guard for both her and Adelina but also for the property that she is renting and plans to grow crops on. Camilo is given his own room or a little guest house to stay in. Ok, fine. At first maybe no but after the ladies get to know him, one would think that they could all eat together at the table in the dining room. I know that there are cultural differences between Mexico and the US but good grief, take Camilo's dinner out to him on a tray? Really? What if Camilo would like another spoonful or two of beans? Is he out of luck? I was appalled at the dinner arrangements.

It has also been said that some would like to see Donnie and Silvia together on the same team. I LOVE THAT!!! Let it be, please let it be. With Silvia and padre J. working together on the A team, for sure they could stop Sever and his evil.
the gringo

 

Gringo! Wow! So you weren't joshing about what you said! Man! I'm glad you found Caray! You must've gotten some real cockeyed looks when you were beating the streets for novela recaps! You're a brave soul!

I agree with you and the originator of the "bait and switch" comment. Both Cris and Aldonza are low, tortured, powerless and confused. Aldonza may seem less powerless because she's chasing the huerto dream which is all consuming for her. With Aldonza having just turned her back on him and served him with divorce papers, Cris must feel more impotent than ever. I'm not going to like it but looks like we may be in for the "marriage from hell" for him and Vile.

Agree with you, Cathyx, please let Cris do a paternity test and let him shut up about it so Cande and Vile won't derail it with fake samples and/or phony lab techs.


Whew! What a weekend this has been on the Sombra patio! I hope we will soon have something to cheer about, the laugh about, to swoon about, because this kind of "action" is kinda hard for a bunch of good-hearted, smart people who just want to have a good time!

Gone is the vacuous buffoonery of La Gata. We really got something to chew on here, don't we peeps?

Here's my last controversial question of the weekend: Does it make a difference in our assessment of Roberta if she really intended to just scare Raimundo as she said later, and mistakenly hit and killed him?
 

Gringo, someone else noted, I think it was Nina, that it seemed Camilo got left overs. It seemed that way to me too. Right after Donnie mentioned taking Camilo his plate she started scraping her and Adelina's plates. I think that was just coincidence. I like to think she went in to the stove and made him a fresh plate. I can see them not all eating together at the table, but if it were leftovers. Well. That's unspeakable!
 

Susanlynn---I am not trying to pick a fight with you but I must say this. I read your comment about your watching of the Outlander. I have never seen that one but you say that it is filled with sex and violence and that it has a villain that is more vile and sadistic than Sev. Really, that blew my mind. I could be wrong but weren't you the one that thought that the skirt that Acacia wore in La Malquerida was a great abomination, way--way over sexy and just an absolutely terrible piece of clothing for a lady to wear. You also thought that Acacia's jeans were too tight.
I remember going round and round with you over the clothing issue saying that Acacia's skirt was a normal type worn by millions of women every day, same with the blue jeans. You flatly disagreed with me thinking that Acacia dressed disgracefully.
Diana's skirts and dresses in Que Te Perdone Dios and Macaria's, ines's, and Irma's
jeans all in recent novelas are everyday examples to me. I will never forget those Acacia comments. I had thought at the time that maybe Disney movies would be good for you and now the Outlander which you say is worse than La Sombra? I confused. Well you did mention Gidget goes Hawaiian. That's more like Disney.
In a company that I used to work at, there actually was an employee named Gidget. I thought that she was playing a joke on me when she told me her name but it was her real name.

I can't wait for Monday. Did anyone see the advances for La Sombra?

When will Humberto crack and finally tell the truth? It could be his death warrant if he does but if Sev is down and nearly out for some reason, Hum might just have a change of heart/conscience.
the gringo

 

I don't think what Roberta did was an accident. She wanted to stop Ray and she did. Had she wanted to scare him she could have fired into the ceiling not square in his back. I think she intended to hit him but hadn't considered what is was like to kill someone and her way to absolve herself of guilt by saying oops after the fact. I hope the look of disbelief in the eyes of a dying Ray haunted her. She then moved his body to the truck to make it seem an accident, set him aflame and buried the evidence.
 

When Roberta shot her husband Ray---I have never been able to decide if she did it on purpose or by accident. Yes, it was a great shocking moment when Roberta was with Sev and Raymundo's truck suddenly came crashing through the side of the barn.
During the turmoil, Roberta picked up the gun. She was in panic mode, screaming, shaking trying to stop the fight and get things under control. Ray turned around maybe trying to leave after striking Sever with the machete but at that point the gun fired and Ray fell dead. Roberta was not proficient with guns and was panicking
because of the situation she had found herself in. I would like to think that she pressed just a little too hard on the trigger and that it was a tragic accident but I guess that I will never know.
the gringo
 

Thanks, Gringo and Tofie. Even if it happened the way Gringo described, the coverup that Tofie describes and that we all saw take place is pretty damning.

Here's a more pleasant question:

Any good events, possible developments, or any of our old "friends" surprise us in a positive way?

I'll say the Father and Son reunion was positive: Jock and Little Ray. Ray's joy when eating is something the director does not have to orchestrate and is a joy to behold! those waffles looked yummy!
 

Lordy, I'm watching this week's episode of Outlander now. Sever and Black Jack would make fast friends.
 

Hey, Vivi! I don't watch any American tv shows. Maybe I should check some out. Got enough evil, though. Enjoy!
 

Not on the show but I Googled the actor playing Joaquin. He's a former model. Be sure to check out his portfolio. Hubba hubba.

And before I knew where he was from I just heard a Televisa accent. The minute I found out he was from Spain I totally heard a touch of the castellano.
 

I meant that in response to the "something good" question.
 

I'm scared to search for his name Sara. . . .afraid I might see a spoiler (or lazy). . .what's his name, please?
 

Google Fernando Cermeño Sanchez modelo.
 

Joaquin a model? Ooh! Must go look.
 

Meant to say I don't watch much US TV either. There are some shows hubs and I watch together, but mainly Spanish language television.

In fact I am settling down to watch La Voz Kids right now.

Team Pedro!

Team Yankee!

(I can't decide.)
 

Joaquin is beautiful.
 

Thank you, Sara. That was some nice eye candy.

Still not sure I'm ready to watch this episode yet. Outlandish sort of used up my rape quota for the week. But I do want to see that adorable Ray.
 

Outlander not Outlandish. But, nicely done, Tablet. I like it.
 

You're welcome Vivi. As we get deeper into La Sombra the more I appreciate shows like Amores con trampa. I really need the laughs after some episodes.
 

I remember reading the first three books of that series back in the 90s,but I stopped after 3. Offspring is re-reading them now and even got to meet Diana Gabaldon at DragonCon a few years ago.
 

Ooooo, Lawdy, Lawdy! Looks like I picked the right nickname: Jock!

Man. He didn't seem necessarily hot right away but one days his eyes slapped me in the face and I was like. . .Day-yam! Pardon my expression but that boy is built like a brick shit-house!

Thanks, Sara!
 

Just giving back to the community.
 

Lila---I'm not really sure that I understand your question. Good events? That kiss in the middle of fire and a little later I would say was a good event. I'm jealous,
I wish that it had been me instead of Pablo Lyle. Oh well, what would Michelle do with an old gringo anyway? A kind of a good event it Dom and Mel. They seem to have a loving marriage.

Lila again---I'm pretty much with you in that I'm not watching any American tv shows. Not that I wouldn't like them but right now my novela just won't let me---I don't have time for both so for now, novelas it is.

La Voz Kids in 20 minutes. TEAM NATALIA!!! Natalia and La Quinta Estacion was my first love in Latin Pop Music. I love her so much. Got to see her perform with her grupo when they were still together. I will never forget that magical night of music. Reik was the opening act.
the gringo

 

Well, gringo after tonight I'm firmly Team Yankee. I'm hoping Jersen or Franser wins.
 

Guess I wasn't clear, Gringo. I meant what good thing happened in Friday's episode specifically since it was such a stomach-turner. Maybe that's corny, just trying to get some more positive vibes flowing on the patio.

:)
 

I think that's what the whole engagement misunderstanding was supposed to be. Kind of a light counterbalance to the gross factor.

Unfortunately Alexis Ayala and Michelle Renauld did such a good job that I still feel icky.

So... Good acting? That's one of those scenes I would like to see a blooper of just to make me feel better.
 

Well. I Googled "La Sombra del Pasado bloopers" and a link to La Gata bloopers come up. That whole durn show was a blooper. And not the funny kind.
 

Ooops! Hee Hee! Well, you tried, Sara! See y'all tomorrow.

Oh. Gringo. Re previews. I decided this week not to watch them. They color my perception of the current episode and just tell too bleeping much!
 

Lila, thanks for your thorough and thoughtful recap. Lots of excellent comments and reaction. The slime scene was enough to make me want to give up watching, although I want to support Padre J in his search for da truth!
 

There are too many huge truths that deserve to be uncovered in this tale. If it ends with those unrevealed I will be severely peevish.
 

Good Morning, Peeps and thank you, La Paloma! Yah, darn it. Sometimes it seems like "they" are trying to run viewers away! Padre J is one of my heroes as well. Sev tried to off him once without success so I believe he's bullet proof and a refreshing level head - and big heart - on the show. I especially love how he cares about E-man!

I hope we're all recovered from the weekend. ¡Tenemos que seguir adelante!
 

You and me both, Urban!
 

Sara- This isn't a blooper, but does show what good friends Rene and Michelle are in real life: http://tinyurl.com/jwfdybj

 

I just read this article on the season finale of Outlander. You don't have to know anything about the show or have read the books, because the article focuses on how rape in portrayed on television. It's a good read and relevant to our discussion about this tn: http://tinyurl.com/ozqr7g8
 

Thanks for that picture, Vivi. Alexis Alaya is doing such an incredible job that I almost forget Sev is just a character. I like to think that after that scene everyone started laughing, Michelle jokingly punched him in the arm and said "¿por qué no me avisó que me ibas a LAMER rabo verde?
 

I don't know if any of you have seen the relatively poor remake of The Forsyte Saga, but the actors who played Soames and Irene had a really tough time with the rape scene in that series. What compounded it was that it was shot on 9/11/01 and as soon as they finished they got our tragic news.
 

Ay de mí...

Por que no me avisaste...

(because supongo que ellos se tutean.)
 

Aw, what a cute pic! Thanks Vivi!

Sara - THANK YOU! I knwe there was a verb that means to call someone by the informal "Tu", but everyone I've asked looks at me like I'm crazy! also, thank you for the heads up. Mmmm, Joaquin is SO FINE!
 

You're welcome, hellashelle.

Hmmm. Maybe I should retire my ho melon and use Joaquin.
 

Ooops! I did mean Alexis, not Rene. He, Michelle and Fernanda (his wife/Mari) seem to be very good friends in real life, so I am sure after their intense scenes they have a tequila and a laugh to decompress.
 

I hope that I don't get in trouble for being off topic.
But to Sara---I tend to favor the female voice and with Daddy Yankee, considering the kind of music that he sings, I didn't think that he would be fair to the young ladies---Samantha didn't have a chance. In fact, at this point. none of the girls have a chance. The boys have pretty much taken over.---The little guy with glasses, Jonnel had everyone raving. Is he the best? I don't think so but the people love this little guy. He might take it. I think that it will come down to who chooses the best song and not necessary who is or sings the best. Alberto--Jersen Maybe.

My previous comment I said the kiss in the fire and I meant to say that and later the kiss by the waterfall were great moments. As for Friday night's good moments--I don't know. After Sever assaulted Aldonza the way that he did, my mind pretty much went blank. OMG! How can one try to think after that scene? I would say though that after what happened to Aldonza, she should never be going outside alone especially after dark. Two security guards? $$$ She is running out of money. That is unless she goes deeper in debt to Renato.

Twelve hours and counting---I can't wait for much see tv.
the gringo
 

On the one hand, I want to say that I don't see why others say she shouldn't have gone outside: she was still on her property. She only went out to give Don Camilo his dinner and wouldn't have even gone as far as she did (the gate) if he hadn't been knocked out on the front lawn.

On the other hand: somehow, it would make sense to me if she were a little more afraid to be out after dark. Before, not so much, but now, after the horrendous Sev slobberting attack, absolutely. Maybe if she starts to demonstrate more obvious signs of trauma, she will decide or others will point out that she should really begin to deal with what Sev has done and continues to do to her.
 

The problem with not going outside isn't that it's "her" property, it's that it now doesn't matter.

Sev will find a way to get inside one way or the other unless she has an industrial-level alarm system and six security men.
 

When Sever first raped her, he did it in HER home, in HER bedroom. He invaded her most private space as well as her body. I'm shocked she could actually return to that house, and we saw when she first got back that she was afraid to be alone in the house (probably still is) and has hallucinations about Sever coming in. I'd personally feel safer outside and far away from that house.
 

Renato should put Cande and Val on his Christmas card list, send them a thank you card or something. He didn't have to wait very long.

Wished Aldonza would just shoot Cris and put him out of his misery or marry Renato before the ink dries on the divorce papers, same thing.

Really too bad there is not a viable alternative for Cris, other than nutcase Val, to make it interesting again. I think he's just stupid and allows his mother to treat him like he's 10, Val to manipulate him at will and won't cut her off and chases Aldonza who is emotionally and physically unavailable to him. Is he hooked on humiliation? I'd like to see a galan that is respectful to women but doesn't roll over for them.

I can fix this for you Cris, really can
1. Mom I love you but I've got an apartment in town and I won't let you in unless you call me first.
2. Don't tell Val where you live and block her number, and if seen on the street cross to the other side, she'll get the message.
3. Wish Aldonza a nice life and hope she finds happiness with Renato as you sign the divorce papers.
4. Call Silvia up and ask her to dinner. WIN

 

Love that entire post Tofie, I couldn't agree more.
 

I love #4 Tofie.
the gringo
 

LILA- when he (sev) was telling her that he owned her and would have her sexaully when ever he wanted, sounds like something he did to her mother. Roberta never seemed happy about being with that monster.

I wouldn't be surprised if he raped her at one point and made her feel like she was something under his shoes to the point where she didn't feel like she was worth anything. That bastard want's to continue tradition.


 

UA and Vivi: That would make sense, but given how she's approached Sev up to this point, it didn't surprise me that she went outside without worrying, especially since she was going to her bodyguard.

Honestly, if this is one of the two glaring weak points I see in this story. The first, imo, started at the waterfall rain kiss. I literally laughed out loud when Cris began professsing love because wth? You JUST MET HER. Their, what, 3? interactions up to that point were not enough to add up to this sudden, intense love story. It would've been more believable to me if he had seen her and right away said, "I don't know why, but I think I'm going to marry that girl. I don't understand it, it doesn't make any sense, but I just feel connected to her."

With that, I can tighten my beanie and chalk it up to love at first sight. As it is, it looked like a regular meeting, adrenaline charged yes, and a little more intense on the white knight factor, but no, while intrigued, neither seemed ready to fight the world to be with the other.

The second is that they have Aldonza having these very weird reactions to her situation without backing it up with insight as to why. Why no therapy? Was her mom against it? Is it stigma against mental health? A stubborn insistence that she can do this on her own? No, they simply never mention it as a possibility. Why the flip flopping on Cris? Where do we get to see the extent of her turmoil over his being Sev's son? The nightmare she had in the first etapa was genius and real drove home her internal struggle with that situation, but that was years ago in the TN and ever since we've seen very surface level arguments on her side of why this won't work. This whole TN would be so much stronger if they spent more time developing and showing us Aldonza's core struggle, the way they have with Uriel and Irma, rather than wasting time with the boppy Mari/Eman/Lola/Pato quadrangle (which could also use some depth. Right now Pato's the only one that's taken me in more than 3ft).
 

While Aldonza does taunt Severiano with acquiring the land she doesn't chase and beg him like both Roberta and Simoneta. Yes, they were miserable but crawled back for more. Even Cande cannot let go of Severiano no matter the humiliation.

Hellasella, Aldonza experiences giddy high highs and low lows. One minute she is confused and grief stricken over the possibility her marriage will end but within minutes all excited, seemingly without a care when Renato gave her money to offer Humberto. I mean she is like a yoyo.
 

Tofie - yes, sometimes it's like she doesn't think two things are connected (her glee over any hit to Sev's empire and Cris's confusion over why she's so focused on destroying his father). I can see her being happy that something is working out the way she wants, despite another thing being a mess, but I feel like there's little transition. Just a few moments of self-reflection on her part would go a long way to helping the audience sympathize with her, imo. In fact, so much of what she does and why she does it appears to happen only in her head, that it's no wonder we (or maybe just I) feel for Cris more than her, even though she's the one that's suffered most.
 

Stigma about psychiatry? That is possible, but we just don't have enough information about Roberta's family of origin to know whether this is truly the case. As a narcissist she would have never thought she needed this kind of help herself. This, however, provokes a different question that is always bugging us about the medical profession in Mexico:

Confidentiality.

Many years ago I worked with someone who saw a psychiatrist on his Thursday lunch hours. He paid for it out of pocket although the insurance policy would have paid because he didn't want our employers to know he was seeing one. This would not be a concern now in the US, but if confidentiality is a joke in this area of medicine I can understand the hesitation.

Some women who aren't narcissists don't seek help out of a need to think they don't or shouldn't need it. They don't want to face their pain or their shame at being helpless in the situation, or even the antiquated idea that this makes them "damaged goods." Considering how behind the times the attitudes in this town are, this is a serious possibility.
 

Nina, I agree with you and noted this right after the rape: That bastard want's to continue tradition. We wants to isolate Aldonza, humiliate her, make her feel worthless and I believe he's sick enough to think she will leave Cris along and become addicted to his sexual attentions as Roberta did at one point. He just wants to use her.

Tofie and Hellashelle, love your discussion and agree with what Hella has said:

Why the flip flopping on Cris? Where do we get to see the extent of her turmoil over his being Sev's son? . . .This whole TN would be so much stronger if they spent more time developing and showing us Aldonza's core struggle, the way they have with Uriel and Irma,

In fact, so much of what she does and why she does it appears to happen only in her head, that it's no wonder we (or maybe just I) feel for Cris more than her, even though she's the one that's suffered most.

Guys. I think I've said this in several different ways but whoever wrote this can feel the emotional depth of the loss of a child (witness Irma and Uriel) but apparently rape and sexual assault is no problem: "Ah, they really ask for it and secretly like it: it's just a sexual encounter that's unexpected and a little rougher than usual."

And/Or, they sickly think it's hot and are getting off on it's portrayal because Aldonza's assaults have not received one iota of a fraction of the depth and sensitivity of coverage that Lardo's murder and aftermath have!

Shame, Shame on them and too bad for us!




 

I have heard the argument on this comparison that anything is better than being dead.

Being regarded as garbage is not better and Aldonza is being treated as garbage not only by Satanic Sev, but by his minions (Candela, Prudencia, Valeria) who have fed the appetite for salacious gossip about her. Nobody would ever believe her accusation except Adelina,Lola, the Padre, and Joaquin.
 

You said it, Urban! *sigh*
 

I think perhaps Humberto would. Aldonza stabbed Severiano with the letter opener in Humberto's office and he knew something amiss. Doesn't mean he'd stick his neck out and support her accusation.

At this point perhaps the only way she tells anyone is if she and Renato attempt a relationship, she tells him of the rape and the perpetrator. They put their heads together to catch him. I don't care for a Cris and Aldonza pairing now and don't believe either are in love. He's obsessed and stupid and she's attempting to rekindle an innocence lost, a broken mess and more a mess with him.
 

Lila - yes, you have said that. I"d like to believe that maybe they just assume that the act of rape is enough to just have us fill in the blanks of her mental anguish. Maybe they're scared to delve into it or maybe they think the sinking to the ground and sobbing immediately after an assault and the dazed and numb sitting on the stairs says all they need to say. Maybe culturally it really doesn't carry the same weight and they feel that the Uriel/Irma focus vs the Adlzona's rape focus is appropriate and balanced. From purely a point of storytelling, I'm just surprised they have seen sit to explore this deep well of emotion, especially since it will make the audience feel for the protagonist.

UA - Even if there's no history or a serious family history of mental health issues, I'm just looking at it with my TN experience. Psychiatrists and psychologists are often portrayed as corrupt (which is often true of all TN doctors, I guess) or as mentally ill as their patients or abusive or just ineffective. In one TN I know, a characters parent was all for her getting therapy, and she had no other family to weigh in. Every time it was mentioned, she immediately accused her mother of thinking she was crazy. This reaction didn't change no matter how many people brought it up or how much she cared about their opinion.

Smh. I just don't get it and unless they give us a breakdown or an in depth look at her feelings, I probably won't get it. Just seems like an obvious weak link in the story.
 

I agree about Humberto. He is too afraid to stick his neck out for her because he knows that Sev is likely to kill him for such a "betrayal." And thanks for the reminder about the letter opener incident.

As a lawyer, Renato has a confidentiality obligation. Aldonza should tell him about the rapes. The issue is that he will want to do something about it but she will tie his hands, just as she tied Adelina's about telling anyone else, including the padre.
 

Lila- you'er right her sexaul assaults aren't getting any depth of any size of attention in this tn, like lardo, and he was a crook. Because the writters aren't writting that she tells anyone. Do you think if there were women writting would there be a difference? I do." It's just a telenova", No, I think it would happen the way it has, but it wouldn't take so long for it to be exposed. There have been some heavey comments about this episode. I wonder if the powers that be the (writers and directors) are taking notice? Even televisa.
 

I'd prefer she told Silvia about the rape and that it was Severiano. As a woman perhaps she would advocate getting him off the street to protect not only Aldonza but other women he will abuse. She could stay within the law, keep her mouth shut, keep emotion out of it and hunt him down. Oooh, I would love it.
 

I want the discussion about greater security that Lola and Aldonza mentioned to result in hidden cameras. I want Sev caught on film and those images to be splashed across newspapers across the state so that his image is pulverized. I want Cande to feel the sting of guilt by association and how many doors get slammed in her face as a result.
 

Nina, you took that right off my keyboard.

Is it some kind of value judgment that the writers have Uriel and Irma lamenting the death of a son who was worthless as both a son and a human being in painful detail while short-shrifting the suffering of a virginal young woman who was raped both physically and mentally by the father of the man she loves? Is this a message that we should also not take her suffering seriously because her feelings are unimportant?

The latest stats I've been able to find say that Mexico's rate of reported rape is 13.2 out of 100M population, which is low. It is half that of the US and far lower than South Africa at 132. This, however, is complicated by the variances in definition of the crime and any ability to estimate how under-reported this crime is anywhere.
 

I believe that Aldonza said that Severiano didn't "hurt" her for a couple of reasons:

1) She wanted to see that Don Camilo was taken care of;
2) She didn't want to say anything in front of Lola (probably not to scare her, although she HAS to say something in order to warn them all); and
3) She's so hard-headed and insistent that she's going to "bring" Severiano down that she doesn't want anyone to think she can't handle it.
 

Nina---Is Televisa taking NOTICE? No, not unless they get hit with hundreds of emails and letters.

Hidden cameras wouldn't do the trick because Sev believes that it is his land.
It's going to take more than a camera to bring Sev down. I just keep hoping that Silvia will somehow play prominently into Sev's takedown. Seems like she is the only honest one with brains and knows how to use them.
the gringo
 

OT to gringo - is Jonael the best? Oh I don't think so. But he is cute as a button and REALLY knows how to work the crowd. Both Jersen and Franser need to work on that. Jonael is a good and I think when he is older he will go far.
 

Hundreds of emails?

Televisa is kinda the big enchilada in Mexico. Even thousands of emails wouldn't make a dint.
 

Gringo - what difference does it make whose land it is? Footage of Sev torturing Aldonza would at least give some support to her story when it finally comes to light. Audio of him confessing would be best, but if the police, or Cris or Silvia etc has seen Sev whack Don C over the head, pin Aldonza to her gate and lick her face, followed by her sinking to the ground in a sobbing heap, I would hope that someone would take at least one of her accusatios seriously.

I don't know how much they care about the opinions of their American audience, especially for the primetime novelas and especially since we get them after production is largely, if not completely, over. We can only hope they take note for future TNs, but I think we'll only gradually see that as TNs make their way into American media conversations i.e. articles, radio debates, etc and become a more common part of the cultural currency.
 

Just to get one final thing in before tonight's episode airs:

Due to the limited television networks targeting the Hispanic audience in the US, Univision is frequently #1 in the ratings. Finales of the big novelas get into the top ratings for the night and this didn't happen yesterday, either (Alborada was the first to do this).

I don't know how many viewers of novelas are outside of its primary audience, but I believe the number is growing. We can't be the only gringos who realize that this contributes to our learning and who also get addicted. As long as we express our opinions eloquently and politely we will eventually be "heard" by the right people.
 

Wow, Sombra peeps! We had a great hang out on the patio this weekend. I've always looked forward to Sombra but tonight I'm almost scared!

:/