Caray, Caray!

Hmmm. Wouldn't accept the introductory invitation/rules comment. Darn.

Anyway, here it is. Clean up to follow. Corrections welcome. Have at it!
 

Lila, your summary was sensational as always.

"Snarls, yips and hissing ensue" and “She takes his arm and gently lays her head on his shoulder and we don’t throw up in our mouths” had me smiling and laughing in great appreciation. "Cande ends up embracing instead of upbraiding her" was my hands down favorite. So many descriptive phrases, including "vomits vitriol" which could not have conveyed the intent than anything else I could think of!!

I know most of us are concerned with Cris' spine but I was glad to see another of our beloved characters showing hers - "Not one to stand still and be ripped, Dominga matches Cande’s shouts in force and decibels!" Dom went toe to toe with the loathsome Cande and I was proud of her for standing her ground.

And yes, I begrudgingly gave Cande props for quickly running to Cris and alarming him about Val's "intentions". I'm still not quite sure what Val thinks is going to happen - it is crystal clear Cris cannot abide her and that no wedding will ever be in the offing. Cande may be deluded into thinking it's a possibility but I'm sure Val has no such illusion, especially as Sev and Cande cannot force their son to do something he obviously has no inclination to do.

I hope Lola does stay to keep an eye on Solatrio. I trust Sev. Not.

I wish Hum had not been Sev's accomplice all those years ago. He must share part of the blame for keeping Eman from his mother all those years. Although he has been kind to Eman, that does not atone for the harm he has done.

I was saddened to see so little of the Padre this evening, although he did dispense good advice to Aldonza.

As far as Pru...well frankly, I could care less...

Now that we know the end is in the foreseeable future, there is much to be done and many secrets to be exposed. I am very interested to see how the rape will be revealed to Cris and how Aldonza and Cris will deal with it going forward.

Lila, thank you!

Diana
 

Thank you, Lila. I always look forward to reading your recaps. Tonight is no exception...especially since I didn't even pay much attention to the episode.

Stand out lines:

"Snarls, yips and hissing ensue."

"Sev caresses her face and Nava looks at them like, 'what the . . .'"

"The clerk gushes and grins right into the camera, torn between whether to flirt with Pablo Lyle and telescope her continuing availability as a novela extra or actually play the part of the hotel clerk." (This one really is the piece de resistance)

"Yes. This is how an Uncle and Niece act...and we don’t throw up in our mouths."

"There is no gleam in Tomas eye, just skeptical disgust."

"SHE SEES SIMONETA’S BODY in the river, her hair floating around her pale face as lifeless eyes stare up through the crystal clear waters. The apparition disappears!" (Oh this part made me jump!)

Really masterfully done, Lila. I appreciate it.


 

Ay! I just noticed the title! That's funny. I can't wait to see your "better" title.
 

Lila! Amiba! Comadre! Gracias! West-coaster checking in. The episode is over, I repeat, the episode is over...the denizens of the Western time zone + Arizona are ready to join the festivities, marvel at the announcement of Ultimas Semanas, and thank you for a rollicking recap!

Sev caresses her face and Nava looks at them like, “what the . . .” I picture Nava showing up on the patio to ask us if we're seeing the same thing he was seeing.

Now, y’all may hate Val as much as I do but the girl is gooood at what she does. *slow clap* Yep. I think the student has surpassed the master with this move. Granted, its exactly the wrong move for dealing with Sev, but that's why he's Sev the Dev. I salute Val's brilliant move. I salute it with a single digit. I won't say which one, lest I be vulgar.

I don't know what Javier the flunky was hired to do, but I don't like it.

I'm no help with the lawyer stuff tonight. I had to rewind that scene twice to figure out where Renato was going and why Aldonza was inviting herself along. In the end I decided to just go with it.

I'm a little disappointed that Em seems to have forgotten Vero, but glad she's not having to see it the way Pato's seeing Lola trying to pretend she doesn't care about Emmanuel and failing miserably.

Actual tense moment there when I thought Humberto might just hand over El Santuario and seal his own daughter's fate. I'm glad he didn't, for everyone's sake including his own. He has enough on his conscience already.

I know nothing about motorcycles, but I didn't think it looked like it was in such bad shape. I would have taken Tomas for a guy who would be into bikes...goes with the whole "tough guy" image...but I guess he's reformed now. Maybe Papa can find him a nice four-door sedan, or a minivan.

She bends over to rinse her face with the fresh, cool waters of the falls when. . . .SHE SEES SIMONETA’S BODY in the river, her hair floating around her pale face as lifeless eyes stare up through the crystal clear waters. I think it's possible that *I* gave the kind of reaction you wanted to see Lola have. It's a really good thing I didn't have an open beverage in my hand!
 

Diana! Thank you, darlin'! Wow, you like it even before I cleaned it up! :D I do so love Dominga! Love seeing her stand up to Cande and really to everybody. Dominga and Mel are Good People! And Cande, she IS delusional! From wence cometh her confidence that Cris will marry Val? She's just full of herself, that's all I can figure. She thinks because she wants something it will happen by the force of her will alone!

This is what has me re-excited, Diana:

Now that we know the end is in the foreseeable future, there is much to be done and many secrets to be exposed. I am very interested to see how the rape will be revealed to Cris and how Aldonza and Cris will deal with it going forward.
 

Sara! Dream Team Recap Amiga, Thank you! Wasn't that weird how Lola acted as if she sees her recently discovered, pregnant and missing mother floating face up in streams everyday? What the!

Come on back tomorrow, Sara! Maybe I'll have a title by then. Can't really think of a theme. Open to suggestions!

:D


 

Ok. I think I was most creeped out by the Simoneta illusion. I really jumped. I'm with you, Lila. Lola almost seemed like "meh. Guess I had dust in my eyes." (Granted I wasn't paying a lot of attention.)


 

Gracias, Lila. BTW, this was Mexican episode 109.

It is high time. As was said in I, Claudius, "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out!" and when they do there will be a flood in SL.

Humberto doesn't need any more weight on his conscience. He needs to let Renato, Silvia, and Pato do the legal stuff and he needs to find out that his grandchild isn't a Mendoza. Maybe he'll overhear an argument for a change.

It will be others' turn to cry tears of blood.

More tomorrow.
 

Diva! Thank you, fearless leader and spinner of such snarky recaps your words of praise delight me!

Girl. Can you help me think of a title. I'm like, stumped.

Anywho, I seem to be in the habit of getting non-blockbuster episodes which is okay cause I can whip out the recap pronto like tonight. I'll have more coherent and insightful things (hopefully) to say tomorrow along with the rest of our patio peeps.

So the end is near and Cris maintains his spine. He needs to hang out more with Dominga and Mel. I guess since the end is near he figures he might as well go for broke and grow a pair.
 

Comment bomb (sung to the tune of AWWWWE-SOME)

Since I suffer from TN malaise (it happens in every one I've watched except two), I would be all for them cutting any screens in which Mari is talking, Lola is mooning over Em, Em is mooning over Lola or Cande is shrieking if it meant the revelations came out quicker.
 

Thanks, Urban! Yah. Let's hit this tomorrow. Love your quote. Let's get it on!
 

WORD, Sara!
 

Lila, I got nothin'...You'll come up with something brilliant at 3am and remember it in the morning.

Urban, that's a lot of poison in this town...it's not the kind of flood they need, but it's the kind of flood they're going to get!

Diana, that's right, we didn't get a lot of Padre time tonight and none at all in the last episode :(

Sara, I'm with you. We could do with fewer Mari scenes. Especially if that gives Don Antonio more time to tell his tale.
 

Thanks, Lila, for this excellent and speedyquick recap.

The scene of Sim mermaiding under the water was muy weird. Lola's reaction was meh. Evidently, the call of the blood works even underwater. However, I was mostly focusing on watching how easily Lola got on and off that big horse. To reference yesterday's final comments, several of us here are 5ft or less, so getting on and off a horse is not an easy affair....without a stepladder or helping hand. Lola is obviously over 5ft.

Pru is going down a slippery slope , and it appeared that even the very self involved Vile is starting to notice. Pru was popping those pills like tictacs.

At this point, I think that Al should just take both Cris and Ren. Now that would be a unique ending for a telenovela. Take a number, guys...and they all lived happily ever after.

Night night.
 

THANK YOU LILA! Loved your recap, appreciated all the detail and wit. Don't have much wit of my own at the moment but here are a couple of thoughts:

Susanlynn--I, too, found myself noticing how easily Lola got on and off that horse. Nice to see El Solitario still among the living.

The apparition of Sim floating in the waters was truly creeepy! Yes, Lola's reaction was pretty bland. I think all of us on the patio jumped out of our seats!

I was surprised to hear it is Ultimas Semanas already.

It's late, looking forward to more comments tomorrow.

J in Oregon
 

Thank you, Lila - on point as usual!

Suggested Title(s):

Marry me or I'll get rid of the kid that ain't yours!

Just catching up with my One-a-days - missed 'em in the pokey.

Why's everybody always picking on me? (says Pru)
 

Hey, Susanlynn! Gracias, amiga!

At this point, I think that Al should just take both Cris and Ren. Now that would be a unique ending for a telenovela. Take a number, guys...and they all lived happily ever after.

You know what? Why the heck not. We see the overturn of so many formerly rock solid social mores, let's go ahead and use novelas to initiate and acclimate the public to a practice not unknown in human societies: polyandry! Yah! DO IT, Aldonza! You're intent on staying in Santa Lucia and your reputation is already shot to hell, you might as well retire that pesky burden of having to choose and just take 'em both on! Both guys are so crazy in love with you, I'm sure they'll go for it!

J in Oregon Yaaay! Thank you for checking in sooo early! You win the Early Bird award! Yah, it's early now for me to, we'll work this puppy over later in the morning!

Anon at 3:53 Thank you as well! Appreciate your crack-up title suggestions. I'd already posted my kinda lame one before I saw your comment. C'mon back later in the morning. There's much mocking to be done!

:D
 

Lila- I woke up and couldn't resist reading your recap, even though I haven't seen the episode yet. Awesome recap. I can picture it all, from the snarky point of view of Lila. :) I'll watch the episode sometime this weekend, but really don't need to anymore.

So Lola had a hallucination about Sim/Viv Underwater (SVU)? Maybe she just thinks her mind's playing tricks on her because she's been thinking of SVU. At the very least it should spur her to intensify her search for her mother.

Just read the last comments from yesterday's recap about all the shorties on this blog. At 5'1 1/2, I can relate!

Have a great trip, Tofie.
 

Fantastic recap, Lila! Had me snickering the whole way:
"Nava, Val and Sev (Los Tres Diablos)"
"Val returns home to find Cande sitting with arms crossed as tightly as her braids."
"Cande promises that Cris will marry her; she should not worry but trust her! Jeez. What show is Cande watching? Well played, heffa."
"Pru gobbles pills and crazily proclaims she is being persecuted for her resolve to defend the morals of Santa Lucia. Crazy ho." All faves!

I thought the hotel clerk played it right: she's not suppose to give out that info, but she's supposed to be swayed by Cris(Pablo)'s thick, wavy hair and cute scruff and beautiful face. Cris could've laid it on thicker, but whatevs.

Lola's reaction didn't bother me. She doesn't know her mom met a watery grave and she only had a vision; S/V's not really there. Had S/V body somehow broken out of the coffee table and floated over, then yeah, I would think Lola would have jumped over all us shorties and landed on Solitario's back, no stirrup needed!

Kudos to Dom and Cris! Dom, characteristically awesome, telling Cande not to snap at her and her grandbaby because her husband can't keep it in his pants. Love it!

Cris! You're finally on board with me wanting you to play detective! You're useful again! Yay! Where was all of this action towards finding the truth when you weren't in the middle of a divorce? And where is it in regards to your wife's accusations, or your supposed child that you have doubts about? It's ok, you've only had this spine for two days, so baby steps.

To clarify: Hum has asked The Dream Team to handle his divorce. Ren has reservations because of the potential weirdness in handling Aldonza's interests since Hum and Al(/Ren, as her business partner) already have murky professional and personal ties with him. Al's ok with it, but Ren wants to think about it and discuss further with Pato and Sil.


 

"mermaiding"

"SVU"

"you've only had this spine for two days"

Ahhhh. Coffee on the patio. My day is starting out with a smile.
 

Oh! Just saw the title! Very well done.
 

Don't they see Law & Order SVU in Mexico? It's high time novela writers turned out police like Eliot and Olivia.

The discovery of Simoneta's corpse should happen within a few episodes. If Humberto is the one to do the autopsy he will realize Sev murdered her.

Now that Sev knows that Vile's spawn isn't a Mendoza that secret will be out soon. Maybe he'll have a fight with her in his office and somebody will overhear it.

I think I will post the Karmageddon discussion next weekend.
 

I think even without an autopsy Hum will realize Sev killed her.

Looking forward to the Karmageddon post.
 

Tofie - Noooooooo! Don't leave us!...j/k- I know you won't leave us hanging on the patio without your wit and humor for too too long ; ) Have a fabulous time! May your offsite cable work flawlessly and your wifi connections be forever strong.

I am fascinated by Pru. She on right on a precipice and I can't wait to see her tumble off. She really had a crazy gleam in her eye last night! She said Nava and Sev don't care about her at all. Does that mean they didn't deal with the case last night (then how did she get out?) or (more likely) that they jut didn't go in to see her?

Cande - when r u going to realize your power is as toothess as your son's threats. He won't do anything (please let that really be changing), and you can't do anything so just take a knee, kiddo.

You know, I was thinking that Don A was more Mel's age than Cande and Sev's, but my beanie only needs slight tightening to believe it original thought, which is that Don A wanted to have a Cande House, but was somehow impeded by Sev. If that's the case, he's proven himself nice enough to deserve a happily ever after, but with Cande? With throws-ashes-around-memorial-service-lies-about-DIL's-paternity-to-make-own-child-miserable-protects-DIL's-woud-be-killer-STEALS-BABIES-and-treats-everyone-like-crap Cande?!

No, no. The Candy House must really have been intended for Marga(? That's candy store lady's name, right?) as other's keep telling me and I keep forgetting.

I want to believe that Pato and Vero will take one look at each other, and Eman and Lola will fade into the background. I won't be mad about it. I want Pato to be happy and Vero's really nice, got nothing against her. As much as I'm tired of E and L moping around, I appreciate the lip service they're giving about having to accept that the other person's moved on and having to do so themselves. It's a load of bupkiss, and if they'd talk honestly to each other for five minutes, they could sort this out, but I appreciate that the minimum of ranting and overt flip flopping.


 

Sara/UA: I was kind of hoping that Hum would somehow discover that Val's too far along for Cris to be the dad and accuse Sev of it and then Sev would throw Val under the bus. Though, that's a lot of rejection for someone who's like Cande but with virtually no self control...

I'm kind of hoping S/V winds up in the San Miguel morgue. At least there, Sev won't have the chance to buy someone off before the first autopsy is done. If he pays for a re-write, doubt will already be in the air.
 

Wow, Vivi! I beat out the actual episode? Cool! Thanks, girl! Vivi, I couldn't believe how nonplussed she was! And yaaaay! You're a diminutive cutie like a whole lot of us! I agree with whoever said we're just more concentrated, so whatever wonderful qualities we have are just more intense!

Please, come on back after you watch it, you're one of my main back up fact checkers and the patio is always fun on the weekend!

Mornin', Hella! Always luuuuv your analysis and observations. Ok, I'll cut Lola some slack:

Had S/V body somehow broken out of the coffee table and floated over, then yeah, I would think Lola would have jumped over all us shorties and landed on Solitario's back, no stirrup needed!

Lola's too hung up on Eman at this point. Maybe later once Cris brings back some information from San Miguel, she'll begin to wonder. Simoneta may need to come to her again!

I'm going to note your clarification on the divorce in the recap. Thanks, Hella!



 

That's another thing, Lila- how much longer can Val hide this pregnancy. I wish the passage of time was easier to determine in a TN.

I guess Val plans to avoid prenatal care/ultrasounds.
 

Love this, Hella!

Cris! You're finally on board with me wanting you to play detective! You're useful again! Yay! Where was all of this action towards finding the truth when you weren't in the middle of a divorce? And where is it in regards to your wife's accusations, or your supposed child that you have doubts about? It's ok, you've only had this spine for two days, so baby steps.

Thanks, Sara!

I'm with you, Urban on the appearance of the corpse. It needs to appear soon. These idiots in SL are so inept, if it takes too long and the body is too bloated and decomposed, they won't recognize it as a human being and think a cow or something fell into a box and got washed down the falls!

Karmageddon! Bring it on!


 

Sara at 8:31 Right, Sara! Last week she slipped and said something about the baby moving. I was surprised Cris was able to realize it's too soon for that. And yah, I could totally see Val skipping prenatal care. She doesn't care about this baby. For all she cares it could die one second after Cris says "I do."
 

Whoa, Hella, you win the creative-stringing-together of adjectives to name a character-by-identifying-her-most-notorious-antics trophy! Day-yum! ;D

Like the Pato/Vero hook up because we know all this face dragging the ground bs means Lola and Eman are going to be together!
 

OOps, Sara Tried to delete a removed comment space but might have removed one of your comments instead. Wanna try again? Sorry!
 

I had completely forgotten about Cande and the ashes. That whole thing was like a walk down a memory lane leading straight to hell.
 

You know, I will admit that Cris's lack of interest is disappointing. Based on what he knows, he's acting like an ass. Based on what he suspects, why is he not more on top of this situation and finding proof? He's kind of lucky Val's a horrible person. If her story were true, he'd be a terrible human being.
 

Lila – Thank you for the recap and the snark!

Seems to me that Renato has a major conflict of interest if he represents Hum in his divorce. HOWEVER,,, Ren does not know Hum is going to screw Aldi (at Hum's doing) about the land lease. Once that land lease stuff commences, Ren would best withdraw as counsel, but telenovela writers might not know that. Or am I remembering that wrong? Or maybe the writers know the land lease won’t become an issue?

Pato has paté for brains, in the "wimmin" department. Bless his heart.

Lola, pay attention. Your mother’s soul/spirit is trying to tell you something. You don’t need the Long Island Medium, if you will just. pay. attention.

” Since I suffer from TN malaise (it happens in every one I've watched except two), I would be all for them cutting any screens in which Mari is talking, Lola is mooning over Em, Em is mooning over Lola or Cande is shrieking if it meant the revelations came out quicker.”
ITA, Sara!
 

Oops --- correction.... Should have said ---- HOWEVER,,, Ren does not know Hum is going to screw Aldi (at Sev's doing) about the land lease
 

Does that river flow all the way to San Miguel? And would the police there be any smarter?

If Lola is the one to discover the body we need to hope that she will be quick and cool enough to realize that she saw that coffee table/coffin on the bed of Sev's pickup outside the house. She'd better call the SLPD immediately and tell them everything she knows. I am thinking that Lola will be the one and that is the main reason she didn't go to DF with Aldonza.

If Don Antonio had been the man with the Candy House I'm sure it was meant to go to someone else. Candela will not have an FPS because she is implicated now in two crimes. She masterminded the kidnapping of baby Emanuel and has not reported the attempted murder of Aldonza. She's going down.
 

Mornin',Doris! Thanks for that on the conflict of interest of Renato as Hum's divorce lawyer. This legal stuff is really complicated. All the relationships and entanglements are just too weird!

Pato has paté for brains, in the "wimmin" department. Bless his heart.

BAM! Love this! And you told Lola, right, too!
 

Urban, I hope you are right about Lola. She's seen the apparition of her mother, she saw the coffee table/coffin on the truck. . .YES, let her use that big mouth and her assertiveness where it will count. Let her call the SLPD and NOT confront Sev as so many novela good guys do! If she does, she'll end up mermaiding with mom!

What's an FPS?
 

Felices Para Siempre.

Candela will at least spend some time in Purgatory if she doesn't go straight to Hell with Sev.
 

*adds FPS to glossary *
 

Thanks, Urban and Sara. (OK, I'm the poster. How am I losing my own comments? I hope they're not appearing on one of the other boards. That would be embarrassing!)
 

What comments are you losing?
 

Does anyone know the name of the actor who plays Adriano? I want to add him to the Karmageddon list if the character is still alive next Friday.
 

Watching now. Busted out laughing at the look on Nava's face when Sev caressed Val's face.
 

Urban- His name is Miguel Angel Monfort.
 

And if anyone is interested, I also found the name of Val's Spanish lover-- Spanish model and former cop, Salvador Corpas: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wFA0tCnOZN0
 

Just watched 10 seconds of that video. Trust me everyone - you're interested.

Thank you Vivi. Were you a reference librarian in a past life? :)
 

Sara- I was a student librarian in my high school library, and did all four years work study in college in the main campus library. Not my profession, but in a past life, perhaps. :)
 

Some of my best friends are librarians :-)

I kind of think of you as the Caray reference desk. I hope you don't mind.

(No, seriously...in real life I tend to gravitate toward the librarians.)
 

Okay, Sara @ 10:10. I've lost about 3 comments. The most recent comment I lost was my first response to you about losing comments! Here is what Blogger said:

"There was more than one attempt to edit this resource at the same time. This may have been because you double clicked on a link or a button or because someone else is also editing this blog or post."

Guess I'm either too slow or too fast on the trigger!
 

Sara- Ditto. One of my best friends was a librarian in the Library of Congress for a few years. Loved visiting her there and going behind the scenes.


 

Blogger might have gas. LOL.

I know there was one of my OWN comments that I deleted and at the same time I think you were deleting something. I saw that comment you made.

And I have had it happen before that I lose a comment because someone is commenting at the same time.
 

Vivi-I am hyperventilating. You know someone who worked at the Library of Congress.

*reaches for paper bag*


 

Lila, you tell it as if you were standing right beside these folk. Thank you.

"Cris leaves Sev using his tongue to count his teeth"

"She takes his arm and gently lays her head on his shoulder and we don’t throw up in our mouths"

Awesome, awesome "Worst That Could Happen"

Whomever is writing the Val character and cast Thelma should get a raise. If Val had a murder or two already under her belt she'd take Severiano in a head to head.

I don't like Lola at all. If Cris wanted a sidekick go ask PJ.

So when is Aldonza gonna tell her bf and business partner they'll be out on their arse in 6 months? Instead she's all giddy over a roadtrip.

Interesting Susanlynn, Aldonza with both boys (she already is), but I don't think even two are enough unless they take 12 hr shifts daily. She needs constant attention and pampering and humanly impossible to maintain over time.

Lila, when Renato was explaining what will happen with Pru; first she faces criminal charges brought by the state for the threat on her life and damage to her property, if guilty may include a fine paid to the state, jail time or both and likely a probationary period and then Renato plans to bring a civil suit against her for the slander, pain and suffering. If proved could be a injunction and/or monetary damages paid to Aldonza.

 

I just loved the way Dominga turned the scolding around on Cande and ended up telling her off. Not a good day for Cande. First, Val twists things around on her, and the Dominga.

Another laugh out loud moment, Tomas trying to block out the image of his parents doing it on the motorcycle when his dad said if not for it, Tomas would never have been born. LOL!
 

I need a mind jog: Sev dreamt Lola found the coffin table, didn't he?


 

OMG, Lila! Your comments do keep disappearing!
 

Sara- Yes. He dreamt it during his first phantom pain episode. Then Sim appeared in the room in his dream within a dream, and chopped his arm off.
 

"Whomever is writing the Val character and cast Thelma should get a raise. If Val had a murder or two already under her belt she'd take Severiano in a head to head."

Word.

I don't think I will ever be able to picture Thelma as a good character ever again.
 

Tofie- Thanks for the explanation of the legal speak.
 

Hey, Tofie! Thanks, girl! That's quite a compliment!

Great point: So when is Aldonza gonna tell her bf and business partner they'll be out on their arse in 6 months? Instead she's all giddy over a roadtrip.

Tofie, I'm going to add your comment to the recap as well. When things get really boiling, some folk don't make it through the comments. Thanks!
 

Thanks, Vivi! You and Sara have saved my sanity! Okay. At least the recap didn't disappear!
 

Maybe she told him already and that was cut out of the combined episode. She told Adelina that she was going to tell him, and Al doesn't usually keep stuff from Ren.
 

Don't either Sara. After watching her as Aranza in PSMA and now she's raised her game as Val. Thelma's got the entitled, manipulative young shrew down. I like it when I see a young actor nail it. Michelle & Sachi should have been paying more attention.
 

I've only seen Thelma in PSMA and Sombra, so I have a hard time seeing her as a "good girl". I haven't seen Michelle in anything else and I still see her more as an antagonista than a protag. She has a smirk that was made for temporaroily crushing a naive young woman's self esteem.
 

Sara said ---"Just watched 10 seconds of that video. Trust me everyone - you're interested. "

Um. Yes. Especially the egg-beater hairstyle w/6-pack abs shots. Whoa. Thank you Vivi. ;-)
 

Doris- I know, right! Lucky Val/Thelma. Still can't understand why she was so laser focused on Cris in Spain when she had THAT in her bed.
 

It's all about one's social ambitions. The Spaniard was gorgeous and probably talented in bed, but Cristobal's parents are the richest and most influential in SL. If Valeria had any real ambition she'd have a career in DF instead.
 

Thanks Lila, wonderful recap. I watched it on Hulu and it numbered this episode #108, so I think we should go by what's shown here in the US.

I knew when Lola was washing her face in the water that she would see something, but I was hoping it was going to be the box. The water is quite clear, so that could still happen.

I also thought that Cris was going to agree to marry Val to keep her from aborting. Maybe he is getting stronger. Why is Cris so shocked at Aldonza going to MC with Renato? Big deal.


 

Cathyx, thank you so much! I totally agree about Cris. From his standpoint, not knowing about what Sev did, it just looks like Aldonza is not only not that into him, but not into him at all. If one didn't know any better, Aldonza could be cast as the villain totally out to play Cris to get his estate and riches. Leave out the Sev rape and licking scenes and she could very much appear to be an opportunist who wants to have her cake (Cris) and eat it, too (Renato).

In fact, there is no woman in this story who truly loves and values Cris for who he is, who wants him to realize his dreams and share a life with him. It's certainly not Val and I'm afraid it's not Aldonza, either. He doesn't even have the sincere love of a mother. If not for Dominga, he'd have no maternal love at all.

I haven't really partaken of the Karmageddon treatise, Urban, but do you or others know if any one has ever made a rating list of leading men and women or is it just available through posts here and there on the board. I know it's not over yet but both Aldonza and Cris are human, yes, but maybe too frail, too human, too damaged.

Wonder if anybody ever did a sequel where a mis-matched leading man and lady divorced, then they did it right and REALLY found true love.
 

Wow, I am on my real patio checking into the caray patio.

Sara..gee. ...I was a senior high reference librarian before I quit to have my babies and then became an ESL teacher at our local community college. One day , we might meet , and I will show you an anonymous gift mug I once received with the words 'Librarians are stacked." I always suspected the guidance counselor , but I could never prove it. Oddly, one of my best friends is one of the Spanish teachers I taught with..as well as two English teachers and a business teacher. In fact, we are going out to dinner tonight with our hubbies, and we meet for lunch every couple months.One of the English teachers is MUCH snarkier than I am. Small world.
 

I know of no rating list of protagonists. Karmageddon is about what happens to the villains when Karma catches up to them. We always hope for the punishments to fit their rap sheets.
 

I remember Thelma is PSMA. Yikes..she has spoiled girl down pat. I hope that it is not typecasting. She has the perfect head of hair for arrogant tossing.
 

Great title, Lila :D

susanlynn, your idea about ending it with an Al-Cris-Ren triangle would definitely be a twist! I wonder if we'll ever even get a true triangle between those three. She's usually very much with just one or the other. And they keep insisting that she's in love with Cris, but making an effort to love Renato. I might have been more interesting for her to think she's in love with both of them, or at least be equally willing to date both of them, instead of it always being that Cris is *the* guy and Renato only gets a chance because Cris is out of the picture...and the second he's back in the picture, Renato gets set aside.

HellaShelle, if it does turn out that Don Ant was the original purchaser of the candy house and gave it to Marga, I would be ok with the two of them ending up together. Especially after her refusing to sell to Cande. Maybe the thing between Don Ant and Sev was business and not personal. I would also be happy with a Pato-Vero pairing, especially if it helps Eman and Lola get back together with a minimum of hurting other people.

sara, good point about Val starting to show soon, and way sooner than would be expected. It does seem ridiculous for her to just avoid the doctors instead of driving herself down to San Miguel or wherever the next closest town is and getting a doctor there. Plus when she finally gives birth, that's going to be an awfully big preemie.

doris, "Pato has paté for brains"...well played :D

Urban Anthropologist, I think you're right about Lola's very contrived stay in SL while everyone is going out of town. I just hope when reports of a box with a body in it start flying that Lola has already told the police about seeing it in the back of Sev's truck and gone into hiding.

tofie, I swear Aldonza is still hoping she can get Hum to change his mind. She forgot the "prepare for the worst" part of "hope for the best." Thanks for explaining the legal stuff.

Vivi, yes! Tomas needs to have more respect for that bike :D

Good point, cathyx. I think I expected Cris to immediately dance to Val's tune and it was a pleasant surprise that he didn't. Am I remembering correctly that even if he did agree to marry her, it wouldn't matter because he won't be divorced before the baby is born? Would the church marry them if he's still married por lo civil to someone else? (I know, I know, wash my mouth out with soap, what a terrible thought to have!)
 

Not that I've ever actually seen an apparition of a family member, but the idea of someone who has passed on making an appearance to a loved one is something I'm familiar enough with that I think if I saw an apparition of someone I know, I would probably think something terrible had happened to them and want to check on them immediately. It would be silly, but at least then I could reassure myself.

Which leads immediately to the thought that the way I would do that would probably be to call or text or use some other technology to do that. But, wouldn't you just know it, Simoneta never gave Lola any of her contact information. I can see now why they did it, but it seems unrealistic for her not to have given Lola her cell phone number, at least. She kept calling Lola's cell from her house phone. If she had a cell phone at all, and had given Lola the number, Lola definitely would have reported her as missing much sooner when Simoneta didn't answer.
 

If you see this message "There was more than one attempt to edit this resource at the same time. This may have been because you double clicked on a link or a button or because someone else is also editing this blog or post." and hit the "back" button on your browser, it should re-load your comment into the comment box, where you can hit reply again. It just has to finish loading the entire page, so you might have to give it a minute.

FWIW, Lila, I didn't see any comments of yours showing up in strange places. I spent a great deal of time last night reporting all the old spam comments I could find as "spam" to update the filter, so when I saw your comment I was afraid maybe the filter was being paranoid today, but no, nothing in there either.
 

Lila, thanks for a good saturday morning recap.
Ok, vile val and disgusting sev, barf barf and more barf!!!!!!!! Thats all that needs to be said about that, for a while anyway.
I am so glad that momma Dom don't let braids-to-tight rattle her. Btt gets in her face, and she gives it right back to her, you go momma Dom.
Hum sounds like he might be about to blow.we're waiting on Padre J to do something, and it maybe the good doctor that lights the fuse to the bomb that will annihilate sev. And then theres Don Antonio. Sev's not going to know where its coming from. that's why it's going to be so righteously good seeing him fall.

 

Even though all the roles I've seen her in since have all been brat or villainess, I will still remember Thelma as the first role I saw her in-- the young protagonist in Para Volver a Amar- sweet, spunky, and a little bit saucy, Pau/Paula.

Start at minute 4:20 to see why she was such a fun heroine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47cDrWlTpiU
 

And you gotta love those braces too.
 

Like you, 5Ft, I've never seen an apparition either, but I suppose it I saw someone I know who is dead, appear before me as if they were really alive, I guess I too would think that there is something they're trying to tell me. That's after I freak out, of course.
 

Whoa! Diva in the house! Thanks, girl! It was getting quiet around here. The comments were idsappearing this morning. No biggie. Just little comment bombs and chatter.

Nina Thank you! There are a whole bunch of us that want to hear what Don Antonio has to say about Sev. I get a feeling it's more business than personal as well. I hope his role is smartly woven into the story and not a tack-on since we just heard about him a few episodes ago.
 

If Simoneta always called Lola on L's cell phone, it would have caller ID, right? My beanie hat is on too tightly, so I cannot remember if Lola ever called Simoneta's house and kept getting no answer.

Whatever Don Antonio has to reveal about Sev should be good, since the viewers are being teased with his comments. Must see TV.
 

Just got back from Date Day with the hubs (we have trouble staying up for Date Night) and COMMENTS!!

Vivi-I do remember Thelma from the PVAA DVD. The probably cut a lot of her out of it, but she was so very likeable in that. In fact, I still think of those braces every time she speaks. I really liked them for some reason.

cathyx and Diva: I don't even need an apparition. I get overwhelmed by fear sometimes and I have to text Offspring. She knows that if mom texts "Are you still alive?" she needs to answer quickly. LOL.

susanlynn:

"She has the perfect head of hair for arrogant tossing." Doesn't she?!

I hope you won't find it creepy, susanlynn, that you do cross my mind often. Something will happen and I think "oh, I should share that with Susanlynn". Especially now that that Offspring has her TEFL and TESOL certificate. She tells me stories about her class and I always think of you :-)

(And is well documented that the Librarians and the Spanish teachers are the craziest ones on a high school staff.)
 

Urban: I don't know how you keep up with all the crimes when you do your Karmageddon posts. I hope we aren't disappointed by the anvils in this one.
 

Why put everything in one comment when I can comment bomb? Because organized thinking is for chumps.

tofie:
"Michelle & Sachi should have been paying more attention."

I bet Thelma has been taking advantage of working with Cynthia Klitbo.

(And thanks for reminding me of Thelma's name in PSMA. I could not remember it and was too lazy to look it up.)
 

Yaaaay! Sara! I love it when you and other members of our team keep things going. I admire y'alls novela experience, depth of analysis, wit and even (sometimes) corny OTs. Nothing's really a comment bomb. Bring it on!
 

er...I'm not real good at the "in depth analysis". But I am good at asking for memory jogs ;-)

Speaking of which...

doris: I feel like Lola did keep calling SUV. Wasn't it while Sev was stuffing her in the coffin table?
 

Sara- Yep. Lola kept calling the house phone, while Cande kept calling his cell phone. He was very annoyed that they were keeping him from stuffing the body in the trunk in peace.
 

Yay! I'm not losing my mind! ;-)

(Well, at least about that one specific event. It is possible that I am losing my mind.)
 

Lila, thank you for this most awesome recap, I read it last night even though the heading said not to cause I'm a rebel that way and your recaps are always too good not to read.

Sara- do you realize how hilarious this line sounds?: Wasn't it while Sev was stuffing her in the coffin table?
 

I read it last night even though the heading said not to cause I'm a rebel that way

Here, Eli...let me buy you a drink.

(I was not intending to be funny with my question about Lola's call. My husband assures me that I am at my most hilarious when I'm not trying to be.)
 

Thank you Sara, if/when you make your way back to LA I'll take you to the super cute bar that I went to last week!

You're always hilarious!
 

HA! Eli! You go, girl! I'm glad you were not disappointed. Just want to make sure I don't spoil the any surprises for the WEST SIDE!! Not that it was a thrilling episode. Thanks, Eli!
 

If I make it out that way I plan on looking you up, Eli. Offspring has been out there two years and I still haven't made it out there. I'm such a horrible mother.
 

I'm never disappointed in any of the recaps (other than my own of course!)

Sara, dooooo iiiiit, dooooooo ittttt. PS: if you have an instagram I have a picture up there that might make you lolz, hint:it has something to do with chickens!
 

Now that our boy cris' spine is making an appearance, I'd like to see hum grow one. Looks like he'd be tired of being sev's whipping boy. Sev has him tied, when is enough going to be enough for him. He's watched, even helped sev destroy peoples lives. Ain't no telling what hes done to Don antonio, can't wait to hear that blockbuster. Hopefully this week will be the start of some much needed spine growin. We can only hope.
Mari and her poor clueless parents, no wonder lardo went to the dark side, his parents over looked a lot of his and lying mari's bad behavior. Ain't no tellin what kind of whoppers she told when she was a kid. Lardo probably took some secrets to his grave about baby sis.
Theres a lot of secrets to be exposed in the next few weeks that are left. It's time for some anvils to make an appearance. The dead do talk. Lola gonna keep having those visions til something floats up.
 

Sara, I am just back from dinner with my teacher friends, and I posed your question about people saying "con muchas gusto" in Costa Rica. She spent some time in Spain when she was in college and said that they speak more formally there than in Latin America , and that Spaniards will say that when they are introduced to someone. Her theory is that Costa Rico has no army , so they put more money into education and therefore speak more formal Spanish. What do you think of that theory?

P.s. When we are rating faculty for crazy, let's not forget those English teachers . They are crazzzyy.
 

sara...I am touched and honored that you think of me from time to time..right back at you. My caray buds become very real to me. People start to feel like old friends who share a special interest.
 

Whoops..the"she"whom I referred to is my Spanish teacher friend. A pronoun cannot be used until the noun is stated.

Your daughter is going to love teaching ESL. I have only taught adults , but every age level has its own rewards.



 

I didn't realize we had so many librarians/teachers on the patio! I need to up my language game!

Susanlynn - that's a VERY interesting theory about Costa Rica! A quick google search reveals that it's had impressive international rankings on various comparison lists in the past few years, though it depends on which list your looking at. I wonder what the history books say about it.

Nina - Looks like that's where we're headed when it comes to Hum. The thing is, aside from not giving him El Santuario, I don't know that there are a lot of opportunities for him to rebel. It's too bad he and Cris didn't team up at some point to gather evidence against him. To many conflicts of interest I guess.

I've been wondering on and off all day about what job Sev has for New Adriano (can't remember his name right now). Last time he had Lardo bumped off, but right now he seems content that Lardo's in a coma. I don't think anyone else is on Sev's immediate chopping block. Theories?
 

Lol, cathyx, "after I freak out" is right! Definitely, there would be some shrieking. Maybe Lola just doesn't get spooked that easily.

Ah, yes, Sev being frustrated that he couldn't hide his crime in peace. Good times. Well, except for Simoneta being dead. All the trouble he had to go through to remove the body was entertaining. Just say "no" to coffin tables.

Maybe Sev needs the new flunky to do something non-lethal, like follow someone around or steal something or *weary sigh* set something on fire?
 

It's Javier, Hellashelle. I can't imagine either what Sev has for him to do. I don't know if much more was said then, but he was introduced on one of the smooshed episodes of Monday, 105 & 106. I think it's going to be plenty bad. Haven't had anything devastating happen recently. We'd better get ready.
 

"Haven't had anything devastating happen recently." Lila, the cynical part of me...or, well, I guess it's really just the me part of me...wonders if they have a calendar on the wall with the days of their biggest events marked out so they can make sure they don't bunch them up too much. Maybe they use little stickers...hearts for big romantic scenes, skull and crossbones for deaths, cross for drama in the church (is there ever NOT drama in that church?), torch for death mobs....
 

Well I can certainly say they haven't used many heart stickers! Wonder what sticker they would have for sickening/near-incestuous liaisons (looking at you, Sev and Val) and for bitchy mean girl and shrewish behavior? Oh, wait, on that last one, that happens everyday so they wouldn't need a sticker!
 

For Val and Sev...a green pukey face!
 

Diva - that calendar sounds like a smart idea, so I'm not sure our writing teams came up with it.

Lila - thanks! I don't know why I didn't just go back and check that recap; brain fog, I guess.

Does/Did Sev know Aldonza AND Adelina are going out of town when he called Javier? Because maybe he's planning to lurk and cause mischief around El Sant while they're gone. Aside from getting El Sant, torturing Eman and bedding Val, his usual obsession is messing with PJ, but he's (unfortunately) progressed on all of those fronts, so I'm not sure what else he's stirring in the pot.
 

I don't know if Sev knows they're going out of town, unless that info somehow filtered through Mari to Val to him? Which, now that I say it, sounds possible.
 

Gee, Lila, you did this one with your usual style and expertise. Love your writing and insight!

"After the three walk away, Val kvetches about how much she HATES Aldonza, Sev caresses her face and Nava looks at them like, 'what the. . .,'" I think Nava signed on board with Sev to falsify a few documents from time to time, but never had any idea the depths of Sev's depravity. I think he will be a good prospect for copping a plea and turning state's evidence against Sev.

I am constantly amazed at the arrogance and stupidity of our antagonists. How smart is it for Sev to be doing nefarious business with someone like Javier whose home phone number seems to be a bar?

Keep growing that spine, Cris. Loved how he jerked away from Val when she tried to touch his hand at the outdoor coffee shop.

Thanks again, Lila.

David
 

I don't know if Nava will have the spine to turn on Sev. I think he's more likely to split and leave town before he can be implicated in anything.

Sev's current level of arrogance is easily explained: He's gotten away with everything so far. He might become more careless, but I think that the discovery of Simoneta's corpse will start his downfall.
 

Hi, Urban.

I think Nava probably has a normal, moderately successful law practice complete with an office, support personnel, possibly a family, and a certain standing in the community, all things he would be disinclined to precipitously give up in order to run from the law into an uncertain future with no resources. Thus, it seems to me he would be more likely to cut the best deal he could for himself by assisting the government. I don't think "spine" would have anything to do with it.

I totally agree with you that Sev's increasingly dangerous actions are the result of the downward progression of success leading to arrogance leading to carelessness. There are plenty of examples of that happening throughout history.

David
 

Good morning, and thank you, David! I am so glad to "see" you! I really like this about Nava:

. . .never had any idea the depths of Sev's depravity. I think he will be a good prospect for copping a plea and turning state's evidence against Sev.

And your reasoning above make me like it even more! Nava has become increasingly involved in Sev's dastardly deeds as the story went on. As big and untouchable as Sev has been, it will probably take many people contributing several pieces of the anvil that brings Sev down. I don't know what part it will be but Don Antonio MUST also be a part of this. I'm sure they didn't bring him in just to be Eman's kindly benefactor and mentor. Lola will have a part as well...

What is scary is the appearance of Javier. I'm afraid he's going to carry out something so vile it will be the catalyst for the pieces to begin to fall together as I described above.

AND, they must be keeping Adriano alive for some reason. I'm going to stand by my theory of a burst of terminal lucidity, hopefully recorded or videotaped, before he dies!
 

What is Sev planning for Javier to do?
I'm thinking that he would love to eliminate Humberto, since he knows now that Val got Humberto to will the property to her. But he would also like Lola to quit snooping into Simoneta's whereabouts, so getting rid of her would also alleviate that problem too. And if not kill Lola, then at least scare or hurt her.
 

It is Lola I worry about most, she will be alone in the house, though the target could really be Aldonza. I think Severiano wants to impress his new girfriend, Val.
 

Lola was the last person to tick him off by revealing to Cris that SVU was pregnant. He knows she also saw him removing the trunk. Hmmmm....
 

Oooo, Tofie and Cathyx, these chilling prospects are very real! We know Sev has enough hate to spread around but he was most recently furious about Lola having told Cris about Simoneta's pregnancy yet he does know how much his "new girlfriend" (so right, Tofie) hates Aldonza, she's a likely repeat target. With Aldonza out of town, and who knows how well Javier knows her, Lola could be a mistaken casualty of an attempt on Aldonza!

Yikes! Next week should be good. Monday through Thursday have been bang-up episodes and my friends do them snarky justice! YES!
 

Lila- I prefer "half-assed and bitchy" to describe my recapping style.
 

And I'm really afraid for Lola.

"How smart is it for Sev to be doing nefarious business with someone like Javier whose home phone number seems to be a bar?"

HAHAHAHA! I love your wit, David.
 

Sara!

Go on! Wit' yo' bad self!

;D
 

OT Susanlynn- Offspring is enjoying the camp for 3rd-6th grade ESL, but says they are very energetic. She wants to stick to high school and up.
 

Thank you for the recap Lila!

I think in this novela the villains just get the better writing. The plot has been stretched so there was a marked dip when that happened and to keep the story going they had to stall the heroes.

Sara, about the words to use to respond to thanks. In Mexico we use "de nada" which means you weren't affected or it wasn't a bother to help the other person out, you did it because you liked it. But, we also use "con gusto" or "con mucho gusto" in special occasions when you are truly happy to help. But you have to do it only when it's something that you did for a special occasion when you made an effort out of the ordinary, not just because it was the right thing to do.

Example: If you give directions to someone on the street you say "de nada" but if you plan a schedule for your visiting friend so that you can show them your city you do it with "mucho gusto".

But also, "de nada" can be a full response, while you don't usually use "con mucho gusto" alone, you need to explain why you were so happy to help as this is part of either the start, the cementing or the strenghteing of a friendship.

We also use "mucho gusto" when you meet someone new and this is used always.

I know it can be different for every country though, so if you prefer to use con mucho gusto in the US instead of de nada because you know Costa Ricans prefer it then I doubt any Mexican would think wrong of it.

Jarocha

 

Thank you, Jarocha! So I guess "de nada" is the better general term.

(PS I'm really trying to like Yo no creo en los hombres. You did say it started a little slowly, right?)
 

Hi, all. Too hot to enjoy my actual patio today, so I will hang out on the Caray virtual patio instead.

gee, so many smart folks here. I wish that you would be available to give me helpful advice. David, you always seem to have intelligent insightful comments about the plot and characters.

I, too, am worried about Lola being alone in the house except for the Butler with the gun. Ha..Who called Don Camilo that ?

Sev is getting careless as his arrogance grows. I have no idea how all his dark deeds will finally be revealed. Maybe he will confess all before he jumps into his beloved waterfall. Where is the ghost of Sim and the phantom limb pain? It is so satisfying to watch Sev squirm and scream in terror and pain. Yikes..I am a bad person.

Does anyone know how many episodes are left ?
 

Ot..sara...I agree with your daughter. I have only taught ESL to teens and adults, but I have taught younger kids in vacation Bible school, and they do have mucho energy.
 

Susanlynn- This was Mexico episode 109 and there are a total 136 (with 136 being 2 hours). 27 episodes or 28 more hours of tn.
 

Hellashelle, did you say something like-"sev will just have to be content with lardo being in a coma"? Or was it somebody else? I thought lardo was dead, did I miss something? It was in reference to that other guy sev hired.
I went looking for it back in the comments but I couldn't find it. I think it was one of your comments but I just want to be sure I don't want to, you know put it to the wrong person.
 

I think Severiano is still at the top of his game. The only thing that has changed is Cris is sniffing around, Humberto has had enough of his old life, PJ has gotta have something cooking. Closest thing to a mistake, by jailing Emanuel, it has brought Don Antonio to town and he doesn't know. Where I think Severiano will screw up again, is his nasty infatuation with Val. His peepee keeps getting him in trouble.
 

Nina, Lardo IS dead, it's Adriano, the man Flavia left Jock for that is in a coma. I am hoping Adriano will have a few moments of clear speaking and thinking before (if) he dies and tell everything on Sev or at least give some valuable leads. I don't know, otherwise, why they wrote this coma into the plot. They could've just had him die when the police shot him.
 

David, I'm laughing at your observation about Javier's phone. I guess he's never made enough money with his previous nefarious dealings to be able to afford a cell phone. I'm adding that to my list of notes for henchperson recruiting: must already be successful enough/have enough experience to have acquired a cell phone. What's the good of a henchperson you can't reach once the cantina is closed for the night? That's the best time for dirty dealings.

Urban and David, "caer por su propio peso" definitely applies to Sev. I think you're right, Urban, the discovery of Simoneta's corpse will start the avalanche going, and good.

Jarocha, thanks for the language lesson :D

susanlynn, I want to claim credit for Don Camilo being a butler with a gun, but it's been a while, and my memories might be clouded by booze and disappointment. Oddly, it's not quite as hot here as it has been (by that I mean, it's under 100F) but still too hot for my taste for anything more than going from my air-conditioned car in and out of air-conditioned buildings. The Sombra patio is much more comfortable.

Lila, they'd better be keeping Adriano alive for a reason, I agree, or there's no reason to have put him in a coma instead of killing him off. And that reason had better not be "to make Sev nervous for about five minutes before he decides Adriano's never going to wake up and it's all good."
 

"His peepee keeps getting him in trouble."

That it does!

"Caer por su propio peepee."
 

I'm really glad I wasn't drinking anything before I read "Caer por su propie peepee."
 

This has been a tofie/Kat/sara production.
 

Diva - "my memories might be clouded by booze and disappointment. " LOLOLOL! Careful girl, you don't want to start channeling Pru and Cande.

David - ita with all that lol'd atyour phone comment. I was visiting my mom when I read it and she looked at me like I was nuts when I started laughing out of nowhere.

Nina - I did say that, my bad. I meant Adriano is in the coma (Thanks to Lila for clearing that up.)

Sara - I'm with you on still warming up to YNCELH. I've still got to finish Friday's episode.
 

David-I don't know how you do it, but you do manage to make your comments "look" dryly witty. The phone quip is an example.
 

HellaShelle, I promise not to mix booze and pills. Or braid my hair too tight. Or own pieces of furniture I could use to hide a dead body.
 

This will only matter to me if you also promise not todo the following: wear a super high ponytail, bop around from place to place and be my nemesis.
 

I can't make any promises on the ponytail...will you settle for 2 out of 3?
 

For you, Diva, I would not only accept that, I would get you ponytail holders AND high top wedge sneakers.
 

Kat...It is 90 here, and I am hiding inside. I do not think I could handle your temps.

Question..Have you heard the concept of "the female gaze"? Do you think that it is employed in telenovelas ? If you have not heard of it, goggle it. I just discovered the term, and my research into it was quite interesting.
 

Susanlynn - I just googled "the female gaze" and it's very provocative. I would like to think the female gaze is often just a human gaze, but I'm not sure anyone can claim that when we have multiple genders. I think the idea does harken back to our discussions on the patio about Sombra is handling/has handled Aldonza's rape, public perception of women's sexuality and sensuality and the idea of romantic love. I see all of these things from within my own female view, so perhaps I could call my disssatisfaction when these elements of Sombra in particular and TNs in general part of the female gaze. If so, I don't think we see enough of it on TNs and I feel it would make for better audience capture and better quality TNs on the whole.
 

Susanlynn-I'm googling and in preliminary studies of "female gaze" right now. I think I'm going to have a lot to say about it. OR I'm going to completely not understand the concept and have a lot of questions.

It's so far fascinating.
 

HellaShelle, this may make me a horrible person, but I really kinda miss scrunchies. I know, I know, soooooo not fashionable.

Susanlynn, the good thing is the winters are mild. The irony is, I like to knit and crochet, so I have a great collection of cold-weather accessories that I rarely get to wear.

I do think they're trying (MAJOR emphasis on "trying") to create shows to appeal to women, but what a fail that has been in some ways. They probably think "chicks dig love stories!" and while that may be true on average, they're missing the mark on what constitutes "love." Including violence...also not something I enjoy when it's part of a "love story." And while I do love big wedding scenes, that doesn't mean all women do, or even that I wouldn't watch a show that doesn't end with a walk down the aisle. Really, I'd be happy to have a good, solid story, even if it doesn't include romance, weddings, etc.
 

A mere 3 years ago I had a female student snidely refer to my scrunchie. So really? They are out of style? They were much gentler on my baby fine hair. (I've since cut it all off.)
 

Kat..good news, I stopped at CVS today and noticed that they were selling scunchies...again. Who knew that they would make a comeback??? As to the knitting, perhaps you would consider making beanies for us viewers in the colder climes.

I discovered the concept of "the female gaze" while I was poking around for info about Outlander . There are several articles about an episode called "The Wedding." It is a very different depiction of a wedding night because the original book was written by a woman and the director was a woman. I found the articles fascinating .I will have to research the episode ...for strictly research purposes.....I started thinking about the POV of most telenovelas. It got me thinking how different perspectives are sometimes .
 

Sara..a snide teen???..I cannot believe it. I was once wearing winter white slacks and sweater, and a little darlin' asked her bff in a stage whisper, " Is it PROPER to wear white in winter???" Meh
 

I was more offended by the disrespect shown to the srunchie. Poor scrunchie. There's always one student every year that tries to say something about what I'm wearing. It's cute how they think I give a shit.
 

susanlynn, with ear flaps and a chin strap so they can't come off accidentally?

Wait, are you telling me all that "no white after Labor Day" thing is still a thing, and teenagers actually know about it?
 

HA! It's cute how they think I give a shit. I LUV it! Sara, you said exactly what I was thinking! Besides the whole female sexuality discussion, what about the female meanness, being a bullying bitch to each other thing. How flat would many a story line fall if the target just "didn't give a shit," about the looks, or the whispers, or the rumors, or the name calling, even "stealing" the boyfriend! I would love to see such a solidly self-confident and grounded leading lady that she carefully picked and won her fights, kicking ass and taking names but knowing when to kill that juvenile mean girl crap with a chilling "I don't give a shit" glare. THAT's the kind of female gaze I want to see. Match her with a leading man who didn't fall for heaving cleavage and fluttering eyes but stood by his lady love once he made the choice, psychotic parents and schizo ex be damned and I'm happy!

YAH!
 

Sara...ha!!!..you are so like my teacher friends. If those young folks really knew what we were thinking. My snarkiest friend was constantly telling subs that I once told a student to do something physically impossible with a card catalog drawer. She always started her tale in the same way, " You *think* she's sweet, but one time she told a student to..." She told strangers this so often that I eventually thought that I actually did that !
 

Incidentally, I know you were talking about real life teenagers but I just thought it would be refreshing to see that quality in a leading lady.
 

Lila, "How flat would a story line fall...." It wouldn't. Not in my eyes. It would be way more interesting for the baddies to have to up their game and not be able to use gossip as a weapon.
 

Lila- That leading lady and leading man would be Dan and Camila from Amor Bravio. She didn't give a fig about what he mean girl sister and traditional mother thought about her life choices. He had eyes for no one but her, and his first wife (it's complicated). They were clearly adults.

Perhaps the issue is that all "young" protagonists should be characters in their 30s with jobs and careers already in place. It certainly makes them more interesting than the teens and 20-something protags.
 

Thank you lila, thank you hella for clearing that up. I was thinking heres another plot twist. And that other guy (Adrieno), maybe they're saving him
To put another nail in sev's coffen when the time comes, when and if he wakes up, if that other guy sev hired don't kill him first.
How many more times do yall think cris will be stricken A-gain before the wedding, come on ladies and gents take a guess.
 

Sometimes I think the problem lies with making a villain. To have conflict, TN villains often go right past mean or selfish oruncaring and straight to petty and crazy (never a good mix).
 

Lila- I would love to see a "don't give a shit" attitude a lot more.

I think a good story can still be told.

Vivi - I would love to see older protags. And I don't mean older actors mis-cast. I would love to see a real career gal. Not some girl with a job who is forced to put up with all kinds of crap because she needs to support her family.
 

Yes please! I'll add a vote for older protagonists. Or ones who act like adults at least. Or not having a mis-match between a characters stated/implied age and the kind of "drama" they're dealing with.
 

Thank you Susanlynn for bringing up the female gaze. I have never heard of it or the male gaze, but it's so true.
As for TNs, without a doubt it is written from the male gaze perspective. From the ramera wear to women having to be virginal for their men when they first go to bed with them.
 

Haven't looked up "female gaze" yet. Intend to. Sounds interesting but Vivi, everything I hear about AB makes me kick myself all the more for having missed it! Darn! Maybe once it gets a little older it will be online in it's entirety and I can watch it.

Agree with both you and Sara that more seasoned and mature protags are what I'm after. Mari and Lola have 'bout driven me up a wall!

You're welcome, Nina Well, we know Cris is going to be rightfully stricken when he finds out that the man who raped his Aldonza, still his wife and love of his life, was dear old dad. Let's see, he'll be happily stricken when he finds out the baby isn't his; also when he finds out daddy was in cahoots to pawn Lardo's spawn off on him as his own; and when he finds out daddy killed his good friend Lola's mom and his own child (he and Lola's half sib; and he'll be stricken yet again to find out Sev has treated his own flesh and blood, his own son, Eman, and thus his brother, like something he scraped from the bottom of his shoe and that it was mommy dearest's idea and she's covered all these years.

How many is that? 5. And I bet I'm leaving out a few. Yes, Cris has been pretty beaten up in this piece and we've seen that stricken look many a time. And it ain't over.
 

cathyx, now that you point out some of this stuff that appears to be for the benefit of the guys watching, it's reminding me of the big shift that happened with Cosmopolitan magazine. I used to be a subscriber back in my early 20s, but there came a point where it felt like it was no longer a magazine "for" women as much as it was "about" men...how to get a man, how to keep a man, how to please a man, how to break up with a man. (Apologies to any faithful readers of Cosmo. I really have no idea what the magazine has been like since I ditched my subscription.)

I don't mind the risque fashions, but the constant emphasis on virginity=worth as a human being leaves me cold.
 

This article did a good job of explaining the female gaze to me.

http://www.flickfilosopher.com/2010/06/defining-the-female-gaze.html
 

"Because most filmmakers and TV creators are still straight men, we are still bombarded with stories that, even when they are ostensibly about women are still really about women seen from a male perspective." Aha...now maybe that's the disconnect I'm seeing.
 

Ooo! Thanks cathyx! I'll read that one right now.

I also enjoyed this one about female gaze-

http://mscinephile.kinja.com/the-male-gaze-vs-the-female-gaze-1566345502

Susanlynn - thank you so much for bringing it up. I am really fascinated by this and had no idea.

I've texted Offspring about it and told her to look it up. Offspring is also a big Outlander fan (the books) and has even met Gabaldon at a book signing.
 

Yes, 5Ft, it's a story told by a man. This is how he sees everything, or thinks this is the way women would respond to what's happening to them. No wonder Aldonza isn't getting therapy. Men never see the doctor for what's wrong with them.
 

I don't know about "never" but it's definitely billed as a "guy thing"...which sucks, because it traps men into trying to fit into that mold. "Tough it out." "Be a man." etc. And then when I consider that it's men doing this to other men even when they're basically in a position of power in society and could change the damn rules....

It makes Kat go all ranty.
 

Sara...oooh..Diana Gabaldon is a fascinating woman. AND..just a bit over 5ft. I would love to know what your daughter thought about her. She evidently has a devoted fan base for her series and a Facebook page. I have been watching a lot of interviews of her on YouTube. Talk the female gaze..Diana's gaze is definitely from a female POV. Her heroine Claire is a strong , intelligrnt, feisty woman who falls in love with a virgin three years younger when she falls back in time to 18th century Scotland. Definitely a female gaze in this love story. Diana has said that a lot of novels are about falling in love but that she wanted to write books about keeping that love alive for 50 years which is the amount of time her series spans. Fascinating that she herself has been married to a guy as big as her hero for a long time.
 

Susanlynn - you are really making me want to go back and read the books again (and even past the first three!)

IIRC Diana Gabaldon is of Spanish descent.
 

I can't believe we're in Ultimas Semanas! I'm getting excited - finally we're going to start seeing truths come out.

Been thinking about it all weekend, and I'm still mad at Cris. Am I crazy to think that he should be more on top of this baby situation?
 

Sara...Yes, her mother was EnglishAmerican, and her parents had a very romantic start. Her mother's parents were against the marriage. I recently heard her attribute her beauty at her age to her heritage. I am in the middle of the second book Dragonfly in Amber. Wow, mama. Cannot put it down ,and I am wondering when my friend will finish book three and pass it along to me . Diana is writing the ninth book and does not know if it will be the last in the series , but she said that she knows the ending and wrote that down 15 years ago ! You have to Google the TV show and see the actors cast as Jamie and Claire ....perfection. The name this long live story comebto life.
 

As to tge femake gaze conceot, I think that women need guys with more than a handsome face and buff bod to fall in love. The best love scenes somehow depict not only a physical joining but also a spiritual one. " I give you my body that we may be one; I give you my spiirt till our lives be done." Yes, please. A sense of humor, faithfulness, devotion, kindness, a sense of purpose are very sexy. hmmm...who has exhibited more of these qualities..Cris or Ren. Al KNOWS Ren so much better than Cris. I think that one thing that bothers me about Cris is his lack of a sense of humor.Granted, it must be hard to smile surrounded by the evil trio. We have seen a playful Ren at times when he thinks that he has a chance with Al. He has been a constat ally and orotector even at his own peril. His hopeless devotion to Al is so intense that it is hard to watch. I think that many of us will be disappointed when Al and Cris end up together. Ren has so many attributes that should make Al crazy for him.
 

Whoops..." They make this long love story come to life." I am a careless proofreader.
 

Again oh noooo...whoops.."As to the female gaze concept"
 

Susanlynn - I agree that Ren has demonstrated a lot more rangeof emotion and has been just as loyal and devoted to his love for Aldonza, if not more so than Cris. I'm not sure why I'm so on Cris's side, but I just really want him to be happy. Maybe it's because he seems to have nothing else in his life other than his love for Aldonza. Maybe it's because he hasn't shown much range, so I feel like he hasn't reached anywhere near his full potential as a character. Maybe it's because he's surrounded by all of these horrible, manipulative people who don't want him they just want his title: Sev wants his heir, Cande wants her consolation prize, Val wants a cover for her affair and a checkbook. All he's ever wanted is Aldonza. He's backed her up and only asked for explanations in return and he's only gotten half of one for his trouble. Maybe I'm just partial to guys who don't push for the physical in a relationship or I"m a sucker for the underdog. Whatever the case may be, I just want him to get something out of this.
 

That's why, Susanlynn, with a little tweaking, leaving out the evil action from Sev the Dev that wins Aldonza sympathy, she could be cast as a villain out to play both Cris and Renato to get their fortunes and Santuario, not because she loves the land her father loved or love either of those men but to stick it to "men" for the pain they caused her mother.

The best love scenes somehow depict not only a physical joining but also a spiritual one. " I give you my body that we may be one; I give you my spiirt till our lives be done." Yes, please. A sense of humor, faithfulness, devotion, kindness, a sense of purpose are very sexy.

We have gotten NONE of this, just rape and vulgar leering and licking, near incest and the only woman who gives her body freely uses it as a weapon of deceit and entrapment.

BIG DISAPPOINTMENT!

Lila
 

Hellashelle, I like what you said about Cris and agree. That's why seeing him with Aldonza feels like a disappointment but if HE loves her and is happy, then OK. All the manipulation you named and which I pointed out in my post yesterday in answer to Nina's question about how many more times will Cris be stricken just really make me feel sorry for the poor sap and I didn't think that's the way one should be feeling for the galan.

Oh, well. It's only a novela. :/
 

Hellashelle..I agree that Cris has been dealt a bad hand as has Al. I think that what bothers me is that he just does not seem proactive and assertive. Ren at least tries to try different approaches not only to win over and support Al but to help and protect her. The guy is severely smitten. Al is lucky because neither of her suitors is pushing for a physical relationship even though neither knows that she was raped plus attacked and threatened repeatedly by detestable Sev. It is very frustrating watching these three go round and round. I wonder how and when the truth will come out and who will hear it first...Cris or Ren. They are both cuties, but Ren is my type of guy. Cris needs a job or some hobbies and interests..otherwise this hombre is going to be very high maintenance. I admire patience, but sometimes action is necessary to move forward. Al needs counseling so that everyone can do that...including Sev moving downward into the firey depths where he belongs.
 

hellashelle said:
Am I crazy to think that he should be more on top of this baby situation?

Well I certainly don't think so. He's seemed oddly unalarmed. It may just be Pablo's acting. Oh maybe the writers think that he's made it clear enough that he's not going to marry Val even if there is a baby. Cande seems more on top of things.

Susanlynn said:
I think that women need guys with more than a handsome face and buff bod to fall in love.

Agree. To me, romance is not about the bod or face. It's about the mind and heart. I would rather have a meaningful conversation.

I want that in my romance too. Not just two pretty people kissing. I want real conversations and situations they have to work through. The love at first sight thing is very hit or miss with me. I've seen some actors that can do it well and I believe it, but more often than not I don't buy it.

A sense of humor, faithfulness, devotion, kindness, a sense of purpose are very sexy.

That's why I have really loved the build up of the relationship in La Vecina. They've made a bigger attempt to show this kind of relationship (but there are admittedly a few wrinkles.) Also, the galan is not just a pretty boy and the prota is pretty, but not just boobs and a low cut mini dress (though they did go there.)

Thinking about it, I find the non-traditional galan much sexier and romantic. I'm not that moved by a Bod with a Pretty Face. There's a Chilean TN I'm watching now and the male romantic lead is older, has a full beard and he hasn't taken his shirt off once (he isn't very buff), but man is he sexy. 'Cause he really has to win the girl with actions and words.

Lila said:

We have gotten NONE of this, just rape and vulgar leering and licking, near incest and the only woman who gives her body freely uses it as a weapon of deceit and entrapment.

I am really starting to lose my taste for novelas simply because they seem to be getting more disgusting. And I think a part of that is the popularity of the narco-novelas.

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but I just want to check my brain at the door for a couple hours.

Hellashelle-I like Cris too and of course I want to see him get the girl. I just want to see more spine (susanlynn said it better.) It's growing though. That's a start.
 

Wait..what.."tries to try". ...this is what happens when you are commenting without having breakfast.
 

Every episode, I want to yell "Despierta" at our sweet, lackadaisical, laissez faire, laid back Cris. Yes, I like the strong , silent type , but John Wayne got it done. And then there is "Speak softly...but carry a big stick."
 

The thing that I am loving about my new obsession Outlander is that terrible things are happening to both of the leads ,but they are fighting together, protecting each other, taking turns sacrificing for and saving each other. That is what I used to see when I first started watching telenovelas about 8 years ago. Now...lots of violence..little real love and devotion. ..few sensitive, touchiing , emotional love scenes which are also hard to find on U.S. programs. . I keep trying to watch at least one tn because I love the caray community. I am hoping that it turns around with the success of romances like Outlander and Poldark coming to TV.
 

Susanlynn, ditto your WHOLE COMMENT above! Absolutely agree! Add to this the build up of the relationship that Sara mentions and I'm a goner! Ah! I hope somebody wakes up and this vile and violent trend we're in is just a passing phase!
 

I am also hoping that the rising popularity in romantic K-drama will open some eyes in Telenovelaland. Now there's some romance.
 

I think that women need guys with more than a handsome face and buff bod to fall in love.

This is what men don't get about the female gaze. My husband doesn't get it either. I like the show Modern Family. I love Phil and think he's the best husband ever. (personally wishing my husband were more like him) My husband doesn't get why I think that.
 

HellaShelle, I don't think it's unreasonable to think Cris needs to be on top of the baby situation or just his life in general. He's saying "I'll take care of the kid" but not asking/demanding to be included in all the prenatal stuff. He's still living with his parents who he now seems convinced are evil. Where does he think he's going to live with the child he says he'll support, and how is he going to provide for this child financially? He's just sort of drifting along.

Lila, I agree, this show has been a disappointment as a "love" story, and for all the reasons you stated.

I don't know that anyone wants a partner who's great to look at, and nothing more. It's the media that keeps promoting the idea that all men want is a hottie and therefore all women should try to be one. For one thing it's very skewed towards heterosexual people...some people aren't interested in "love" at all, some men aren't interested in women, some women aren't interested in men. For another I don't know anybody who is interested in a relationship who is just looking for someone good looking and doesn't care about the kind of person they are. At least, no one I respect or enjoy spending time with.

I agree, Cris' lack of a sense of humor makes him less appealing to me. It would help if his "serious" demeanor was actually serious and not just "bland." If I thought he was thinking and planning and not just staring off into space.
 

Cathyx - Phil is awesome. I love him too.
 

Cathyx...I LOVE Phil..funny, devoted to his family, quirky..a doll.

Kat...bland...a good adjective for Cris. You are right..that faraway ,kicked puppy dog look is not an indication of a deep thinker making plans. WAKE UP, Cris. Do something.

If Ren finds out about the rape, I fear that he will go directly to confront Sev because he has done that at least twice that I can recall. I do not want Ren to die for love. No.
 

You guys, I'm getting all worked up again with these comments! I've been very annoyed with the lack of everything we've been talking about when it comes to rmomance because I LOVE love. It's a BIG pet peeve of mine when TNs only provide a pale imitation of it (a sombra if you will, in (unfortunately) the worst way). I had to go back to a weekend discussion to find my comments about this, but I still agree with myself:

Today, in the US, I'd like to think most people view romantic love as a meeting of minds coupled with a desire for intimacy, physical and otherwise. I think we strive for an equal effort from the parties involved and like to see this declared with words and supported by actions. In the very best novelas, imo, there's a demonstration of that effort. Not just the love and the suffering when the protagonists are apart, but work on both sides to get the relationship back together. There are sacrifices made on both ends to be together. I think that's what makes it a fairy tale love to me, the happy ever after is both earned and granted.
 

There's a trick about making one's eyes look alive and I just want to go whisper in Pablo Lyle's ear "think about multiplication tables!" (Really, it could be anything, but it needs to be something, because just staring off into space without thinking of anything in particular LOOKS like staring off into space thinking about nothing at all.)
 

Maybe it's my age? I'm tired of the end of the story being the couple being together, because I know that's not all there is too it. "Happily ever after" is not the end, it's the beginning. There's still a lifetime that needs to be lived, and after watching a couple struggle with basic communication skills for an entire show, I don't tend to get the feeling that the big finish boda is going to change that at all. Five minutes after the "FIN" I expect them to be right back to arguing about something stupid and calling their attorneys. And no, doing the extended ending that shows them fifty+ years down the road doesn't convince me that they somehow turned the relationship mess of the previous episodes into a solid relationship.
 

Hellashelle..."I still agree with myself" ...I and I agree with you, too.

Kat..right on, right on. Relationships require devotion to each other. You have to save each other from the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune...and disapointments...and obligations....and family members...and bosses...and fairweather friends...and neighbors...and bad decisions...and bills..and illness... not once but over and over again. Let's see the leads doing some of that as the tn develops.
 

My favorite throw pillow ..."Real love stories never have endings."...susanlynn, the cinsistrntky hopeful romantic
 

Did you recognize the word consistently ?
 

Susanlynn- I second that "Right on, right on!" Ladies, I feel like we are on the same cosmic wavelength about this and it is STRONG. May the tidal wave of logic wash over the TN universe and leave in its wake a new birthing ground of Spanish speaking romantic dramas that keep us captivated. Amen.

I will second, third and fourth Vivi's props to AB. Seriously, those of you who haven't seen it, but are looking to do so: Youtube. So good.
 

I'm talking to a friend about the often-repeated idea that "we" are not the target audience for this show. She pointed out that just because the producers have a target audience in mind, and are creating the show to appeal to that audience, that doesn't mean they're correct about what their target audience wants. My thought is that the ratings shouldn't indicate anything other than "how many people are watching," y punto. Doesn't mean they're enjoying it. Doesn't mean they want more of the same. We're all watching, and we're dissatisfied to various degrees.
 

And may I recommend finding Alborada on YouTube. That was the tn that hooked me 8 years ago. Then, I bought Amor Real...still hooked. Then, I followed Pasion when it aired...still hooked. I thought that all tns pwere this good. Then, In watched DA...love Big Ed...still happy. I liked AV. Then, things started going downhill. The romance seemed to take a backseat to..what ?..
 

To the obstacles? I haven't seen all of the shows you mention, but the ones I have seen had long stretches of the couple working together against something else or to accomplish something. Lately it seems to be more about keeping the main couple apart so they have to "fight for their love," which would be romantic if they actually were, you know, fighting FOR their love...but instead, they end up fighting each other while the bad guys peer out from behind the scenery giggling and rubbing their hands together.

None of which answers the "Why?"
 

I could deal with a lot of the obstacles if they weren't ultimately didn't boil down to the immaturity of the protags. The "baby with another person" obstacle is classic to the point of cliche, but it's legit. There are a lot of emotions involved and a lot of things to consider that can make this issue fascinating and heart rending. All four of my top favorite TNs have had twists on this theme that have made me feel for the protags and even the "villains". Why? Because they actually dealt with theissue adn explored those issues instead of just making the situations a black and white mess; he's stunned, she's mad so she dumps him, the villain is smug with self-satisfaction and hypocrisy. Um, no. There are a lot more dimensions to consider. What are the motivations for the characters. How do their backgrounds play into their decisions? How are they dealing with their feelings toward their significant other, the "other" woman, the baby etc. This is part of my frustration with Sombra: the different facets of the emotional spectrum are either ignored, or given surface level lip service. Where's the true angst? Where's the emotional turmoil that makes me care?

Is anyone on any spanish-language forums for TNs? Are other cultures having the same beanie-tightening, teeth grinding problems that make us crazy?
 

Are there any Spanish language forums that are watching with the US broadcast?

I found one for La Sombra a few weeks ago, but it was following the Mexico broadcast so it was spoiler city.

The foros on Uni seem a hot mess and it doesn't seem like they discuss the shows.

Caray seems like the only game in town. Although I guess there's Telenovela World.
 

Wow. I thought I was just not looking hard enough, but there really doesn't seem to be too much out there. And what is out there is just not as awesome as Caray!
 

What have you found, hellashelle?
 

I saw love in TN land shot in the head during CI and taken off life support when Art in PSMA threw away 10 years of marriage, pitched his wife in the street, forbade anyone to mention her name and called her a slut and in the end Isabel took him back. Kinda makes me mad thinking about it. Susana Gonzalez was so good so maybe that is why it seemed so nonsensical for her character to forgive all for a clown.

In this one I think if Michelle was a better actor she could sell this part. I mean, it's a juicy part. Not on the same planet but see what Susana did with a tiny part, Roberta, and though she was a mess and shot her own husband in the back to protect her lover, we were aware her struggles and forgave her crazy. Michelle hasn't sold me Aldonza is in love with Cris. I believe she is buds with Renato but that is easy cause Renato does everything for her and all she has to do is show up. She shows no passion for much of anything and the one time she and Cris really kissed, at the engagement party for Cris and Val, it was like she was kissing a pillow, pretending to be hot for whomever that pillow represented. Hell if you wanted to see passion, you should ask my pillow as a 12 year old. My pillow, I mean David Cassidy, knew he'd been kissed. Don't ask me what my friend was doing on the floor with Donnie Osmond.