Caray, Caray!

The preceding recap is original and written exclusively for Caray, Caray!

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Sorry about no long/short guys, maybe later in the day.

Also: WOW. Can't wait to read today's comments!
 

please, no need for any apologies as fas i am concerned! thank you for the recap and for posting it so early! i think you all are so very nice and funny and i appreciate all of it very much!
i was simply horrified and scared for candela...i do not care for the things she has done and said, but i genuinely felt sorry for her, especially when she was crying and clinging to dominga.
*sigh* i really really really really did not want to see pato and mari together, but i just am so very tired of lola. i will just hope that maybe pato will bring out the better side of mari and she will no longer be the nasty piece of work she has been (i think that iis called "growth").
i cant believe it is all winding up to wind down :( i dont want it to end, waaaaaaaah!
ithank you again for the recap!
PS
Thank you, all you kind and smart and funny patio people for the explanation! i am most delighted to pull up a seat and enjoy an adult beverage with you all! to those who asked about the name, it comes from a conversation years ago. i had announced to my boyfriend and some of his friends that i was going to start a blog. one of his friends asked teasingly if it was going to be all long and rambly like me? my boyfriend laughed and said, "she may be a girl that rambles on a lot but the girl is mine.". so my blog became HisGirlRambles and my username The Girl Is Mine.
and yeah, i do tend to ramble. :)
 

Thanks hellashelle, always a great pleasure and so early too! I agree Mari doesn't deserve Pato, but whatever. I bet she was the one that paid off the debt interest, I think I remember her eavesdropping on that convo.

Honestly, I'm only watching this show now to find out who kills Sev. That's the only real mystery, considering just about everyone wants to do him in

Daniel
 

Good morning and welcome The girl is Mine and Daniel (I haven't been on the Patio as much as usual this past week, so forgive me if my welcome is late and redundant.

Mari is my archnemesis, so her redemption is not something I appreciate. I just wanted to see her humiliated and maybe then repentant. The reverse just turns her anvil into a dark cloud and passing rain. Not the same level of satisfaction for me, but then much of this TN has become unsatisfying for me.

Which leads me to agree with Daniel: most of my interest rests in finding out how hard Sev will get hit at the end of this. But a quick correction: Lola paid off the interest on Irma's loan with her life's savings. Mari witnessed Lola speaking to the loan officer, but doesn't exactly know what she saw.

ITA, Lola is often very annoying. The way the actress plays the character always makes me think that the character description says something about child-like exuberance.
 

Great way to start my morning hellashelle with your great recap. But I didn't like the episode and am starting to feel like there will be a lot of that these next couple weeks.

I agree that Sev's attack on Cande was loathsome and wouldn't wish that on anyone. The ironic justice, when she learns he did the same to her not so favorite future daughter in law, she will change her tune. Clever writers but thoroughly disgusting.

I wish Lola didn't do that whiney two year old voice. Drives me batty. I couldn't concentrate when she was with Cris. Poor E-man.

But can I say--lord love him, maybe it's because life dealt him a barrel-full of lemons, but damn E-man acts and he means it when he does. For the love of all that is holy, Cris needs to just stop whining!!!! He's become a pretty ineffectual galan. He sees Sev day after day being accused, hurting his mother, and he still just sits outside moping. ARGH!!!

So two weeks from happy ever after, and the two are still seeing they can't be together because of all that Sev has done. We know show...we agree. Now let's see what rabbit is pulled out of a hat to make these two work.

Daisynjay
 

Thank you bunches, hellashelle! I was only able to catch the last 30 minutes of this last night and I was indignant on your behalf. I actually said aloud to the TV "why does hellashelle always get the Mari BS episodes?"

I'm pulling up a chair next to you because I am disappointed in this repentant Mari story. Pato deserves better.
 

Great work, Hellashelle.

Now that the entire crew at Las Animas knows that Sev has been abusing his own son for all the time he's worked there let's hope they all watch him when they can and help in his downfall, which has finally begun.

I'm certainly no fan of Candela (having had a toxic mother myself) but I was almost cheering her. I'm sure Sev is still among the living, as there are too many episodes left (I think the last one will be 2 hours) so I'm now wondering whom he will drag down with him.

The report of Adriano's death could be greatly exaggerated.

Mari better pay back the interest that Lola paid for Irma. But that still won't make her worthy of Pato.

More later.
 

Clever title Hellashelle...and loved your line about Candela "battle braids back in place".Terrific image.

I was out of town yesterday and well into the night so didn't see this episode. Let's just say I read your recap with my mouth hanging open in surprise and horror. Not at the recap which was excellent...but at the events.

Well, so far there's this one has turned out to be heavy on atrocity and sacrilege and light on romance. A very odd choice for the early family hour in television land, I must say.


But thanks to the excellent recappers and lively patio, this has been a good run anyway. Thanks again Hellashelle.
 

Hellashelle- What an eventful episode, perfectly retold by you. Gracias!

Sever starts and ends the episode with a gun to head. With a few additional death threats in between. Who's going to point a gun at him next? His arrogance thinking he could rape Cande and just go on being king of the manor was a thing to behold.

What will PJ do now that he knows about the rape? He's got until tomorrow night to decide if he's going to obey his orders and leave town. Hardest decision of his life, I bet.
 

Hey, hellashelle, great work, and greatly appreciated.

This episode was frustrating for me because so many of the principal characters misunderstood the motives and capabilities of others, primarily Aldonza who incorrectly asserted that Cris would never break from his father, when that is exactly what he is intending to do.

There was a time when it was supposed that married women were obligated to submit to the sexual desires of their spouses. Thankfully that time is gone. What Sev did was another rape. I am hopeful that Cande will begin to understand how Aldonza and many other women were mistreated by her husband, and begin to get some insight into why Aldonza is not the town slut.

It bothered me that, with the exception of when someone had a gun to his face, Sev had that self-entitled expression on his face. This man will not quit his abusive, murderous ways until someone snuffs the life out of him.

Really creepy seeing Sev's spy watching the comings and goings of Aldonza.

Urban, I agree that it is unlikely that Cande killed Sev. Is it too much to hope that, while she missed his head, she might have hit his good arm?

What happened to the investigation into the body in the coffin table?

Thanks again, hellashelle. Very nice work.

David
 

Thanks for the correction hellashelle. I always kind of zone out when they speak.

Also, anyone realize how padre J could have reported the attack since he had proof (visible wounds and Tomas as a witness)

Daniel

 

Thanks and good morning Daisy, Sara, UA, JudyB, Vivi, and David!

I imagine PJ doesn't want to report the smack because Cande's kiss would come out (though Sev pretty much shouted that Cande was his wife when he delivered that slap, so I guess he doesn't care if that gets out).

Vivi - Sever starts and ends the episode with a gun to head...His arrogance thinking he could rape Cande and just go on being king of the manor was a thing to behold. YEAH, all caps. 1) I thought that was a nice full circle with Antonio as well, especially since she also compared him to a dog (that's what inspired my title today). Yeah, Sev's arrogance has gone beyond caution or prudence since he stopped panicking after killing S/V. That was his one really unplanned murder and since he thinks he got away with he, he's begun thinking he's untouchable.

Yeah, only like a leper, Sev.
 

hellashelle, thank you for the carefully constructed, thought provoking recap. It was a(nother) very dark and disturbing night of events. Excellent.

"she begins to unravel within her tight ball of hurt" and "indolent smoke" were fantastic.

"Unwittingly, she is repeating Aldonza’s reaction almost exactly". Perfectly stated. For the first time, my heart went out to Cande. Ravaged, she was devastated and initially cowered. But it appears her outrage fueled her to retaliate. Just how far remains to be seen.

There is no doubt Dominga loves Cande. She always has. However, the anger in her face after Cande was raped rivaled Sev’s expressions in his darkest hour. As you noted Dom’s own face suggests "she’d murder the monster himself, were he in front of her". Sev be afraid. Be very afraid.

While the Padre should never abandon his calling, I do hope he stays until Sev's demise. Realistically, as he is a man of faith and love, it wouldn't be in his character to leave Aldonza at this point. His righteous outrage was so sad.

I understand Don Ant not committing the deed but do believe the fact Sev is Eman's father saved his life.

I've said all along that Mari does not deserve Pato. I wish she'd take her swishing ponytail and sashay out of town. On second thought - no. Irma would be sad. She and Uriel would be the only ones but they've suffered enough heartache. I'm bucking up for the Mari/Pato pairing. Sigh.

Welcome the girl is Mine.

Diana
 

Holey Moley Hellashelle you've done a masterful job, Thank you.

"she begins to unravel within her tight ball of hurt"

Rape for redemption, we got some twisted puppies writing this show.

Except for the murder for hire of Abelardo, surprise attacks on PJ and threatening to kill a horse, Severiano above all else is a hit and run rapist in anger. If ever there was an argument for reporting rape to take these monsters off the street.

That little pissant Cris hasn't a thing to mope about
 

While it might have been logical for Don Antonio to kill him without witnesses and get away with it, it's not big enough. The entire town needs to know everything this devil has done before Satan pulls him into the fiery depths. Think about all the talk about what was going on behind closed doors! That would keep SL awake for weeks.

I am imagining Sev thinking about raping Veronica. She'd be the one to do a Lorena Bobbit on him, don't you think?


 

Well, she certainly wouldn't let it go unreported! Sigh. I'm still upset she's not Pato's new love interest. (Why, TN gods, why?!)

Thank you, Tofie :)

I remember back when we were deeply considering Cande's reaction to finding out about Aldonza's rape. The general consensus was she would be more upset about the family image taking a hit than Aldonza's pain. Someone may have thrown out that she wouldn't get it unless it happened to her, but I don't think anyone of us seriously thought Cande herself would experience that pain. Now that she has, and Aldonza's taken a step towards introspection in light of hearing Antonio's story and Adelina's death, do you think this will change Cande's anvil(s) (is this Cande's anvil?) or the possibe future relationship between the two women?
 

I don't know if this is Cande's anvil, but it's certainly one of the few things that would make her understand the true horror and damage Sever inflicts on people. And she many times has been the one to spur him on to his atrocities.
 

Oh. My. Total. Gosh! Hellashelle! Girl, thank you for this masterfully fluid and gripping recapitualation of last night's epic and pivotal episode! I haven't read what my friends have to say and that's a treat in itself. I just want to highlight this. I don't know how it's going to turn out but this is what I was talking about on the weekend about PJ being willing to "rip off the collar" in defense of Aldonza:

She wants to spoil him a little on his last night in town. No, PJ says, he’s not leaving. Even if he has to leave the Church, he’s not leaving her with this monster. She claims that when Sev attacked her, she didn’t know how to defend herself, but PJ points out that he’s a man with two arms, and Sev still successfully attacked him! He couldn’t bear it if Sev attacked her again.

Now. Back to the exciting recap!
 

Hellashelle....Muchas Gracias. I am sure Sev will wake from his dream that Cande shot him. As much as I complain about the story line, the actors are incredible. I will hate to see this TN come to an end. Have not enjoyed one as much since Que Pobre. Am going to linger on the patio a bit this morning and enjoy the conversation of the peeps and have another cafe con crema.

 

Hellashelle - Wow. Thank you for this excellent recap.

I really wanted to see Dominga's face as the person holding the gun to Sev's head. She looked mad enough to kill him. Actually, everyone is mad enough at Sev to kill him.

Cande was really stripped down to her most vulnerable self in the scene with Dominga. Hair down, no scarf on the ugliest-on-earth cervical collar, completely in pieces after Sev raped her. She probably took a bath in Clorox to scrub him off her. Poor thing. Yes, I feel for her. Perhaps she has hit her own personal emotional bottom with him. She has nowhere left to go but up.

Redemption Mari ..... blech. She probably used her savings to pay off Irma's loan shark, too. We never were told who paid that debt. Whatever. I'm glad she is redeeming herself. Whatevs.

Chris = anti-galan; the most ineffective, disappointing male protagonist. Ever. Patio Peeps, is it just me, or does Cris's default facial expression look like his I.Q. is barely above that of plant life? Okay... rant over.

I am so ready for this turkey to be done. I'm only watching to see what happens to Sev. And I'll probably be disappointed. Gah...
 

Using the crowbar as they are to make room in the story for a Mari redemption and pairing with Pato is one of the bad habits in TN's you always see towards the end. I'll never understand this idea that people have to be PAIRED up, and forcing a pairing if the writers have to.I'm surprised we don't have babies falling from the sky either, another trite habit at endings. There's nothing in Mari and Pato to this point that even remotely hinted he was falling in love with her...and voila, he's smitten. And she was smirking what would have been days ago about Lola and happenings, but voila, she is suddenly all aware of being a cad and shrew. (And she couldn't do that after her parents were destroyed when her brother died? Whatever). It's just all patching the cake that fell out of the pan wrong so you can put the icing on it.

Go ahead, redeem Mari, but make her confess stealing the money and being a genuinely selfish daughter. And keep her single. She does not deserve Pato, and he certainly shouldn't be stuck with her.

Daisynjay
 

If Cande's rape not redemption, then what is? Should she lose an arm or imprisoned for being a bitch or Severiano kill her? Yes, she suggested Emanuel be taken and hidden from public, she slut shamed and frustrated any effort between Cris and Aldonza, slapped Aldonza in church, kissed a priest twice, tampered with DNA and wished someone would kill Aldonza a few times. Her biggest crime was providing a safe haven for a serial rapist, preferring to remain ignorant to divorce.
 

"Patio Peeps, is it just me, or does Cris's default facial expression look like his I.Q. is barely above that of plant life? "

OMG doris, we crossed comments but I am now mopping coffee off my work desk. That is a sidebar worthy comment if ever I saw one.

And I stated earlier, he's mostly whiney and mopes. No guns blazing with this lead. That's been left to Ren and E-man, not that I'm complaining on that front, since I've loved watching both. But except that Cris snogged the leading lady on a couple early hours, then had the briefest marriage on a TN I've seen in awhile (without the atypical wedding night understandably), he somehow wins the girl at the end while everyone else does the heavy lifting. What a guy. Not sure I'd want to see that in my better half in case of future times of crisis.

Daisynjay
 

Daisynjay - I am SO with you on the last minute pairings thing, esp. with Mari. The telenovela beanie hat is on my head with double chin straps engaged!

Wouldn't be nice if, instead of all the rush, rush, rush to get closure on subplots, a telenovela had a two-hour final with the second hour being an Epilogue? Lots of women's contemporary fiction novels do this, and it works. Movies do it often, right before the credits.
 

Had to stop again, Hella, to consider this question:

do you think this will change Cande's anvil(s) (is this Cande's anvil?) or the possibe future relationship between the two women?

Wow. I hate to say it, but if Cande lives, I think it could. I say if she lives because we heard the gunshot but we do not know what has actually happened. (And I DON'T watch previews). These writers, as someone noted, ARE so sick and twisted, I could see Cande missing, Sev getting the gun and literally strong arming her with his amazing right arm of doom and SHE ending up being the one dead. If not this night, then later he could pull on her what he pulled on Simonetta. Rape again followed by murder. That's how dark this thing is.

SO. If she lives. Yes, I could see this rape leading to a healing of the hatred she has for Aldonza, as sick as that is.

Okay, no tomatoes guys and not that I want to see it but seeing the kind of story these people are crafting, I wouldn't be surprised if, on top of the above, PJ "rips off his collar" to avenge Aldonza and Cande ends up getting Jeronimo, the love of her life, having "taken him back" from God.
 

Popping in to say no to last minute pairings and yes to the plant life quip. I've two long meetings today. Keep the entertainment coming. I plan to sit in the back and just read comments. I doubt they will be saying anything important in the meeting.
 

Redemption is the good that you DO with your life experiences. When bad stuff happened before to Cande, it just made her harder and less sympathetic to others. We have not seen yet how this experience has changed her, other than making her want Sever out of her life.
 

Cande did more than just suggest the kidnapping of Eman. She planned it, and actively participated in it when she signed his baptism cretificate. And she also helped cover up the attempted murder of Aldonza by Val, even transporting the weapon back to her home.
 

"Patio Peeps, is it just me, or does Cris's default facial expression look like his I.Q. is barely above that of plant life? "

Doris, I know you're angry about Cris and I'm going to attribute that insult to plant life as born of immense frustration!

Girl! Plants do photosynthesis, there is nothing on a human level Cris does that can come anywhere NEAR that! He drives me crazy!!! Rant some more! We've got to let this frustration out cause I fear there's more ahead!
 

Although I don't like it, the pairing of Mari and Pato is not a last second pairing. They were channelling this from the first moment they met, and we all noticed the spark. But he had set his heart on Lola, and that was that. But since then, he's actually spent MORE time with Mari, but just as friends and at work. We may not have been privy to their feelings for each other deepening, but did we all really want to spend any more time with Mari than we had to? We know they were spending time with each other off screen, even though we haven't seen it all.
 

Cande's violation was horrific.

Still I don't know how Aldonza could ever forgive her. But forgiveness is a virtue that many possess. If she does, she will go down in the annals as being one of the kindest, most generous TN characters ever.

But, it is not just about Aldonza. Cande masterminded what happened to Eman. He was robbed of his mother's love. His family. He must forgive also.

She has many sins to atone for. And in order for forgiveness, you must truly repent for all of your sins. I do not think that is possible for her. She wears her sins as a cloak of self righteousness.

I see no redemption for Cande. If the writers take that route, I will be very sad.

Diana
 

Lila...I love your defense of plant life! Here, Here! (But Doris' rant was still awesomely funny.)
 

Vivi, our comments crossed. We said the same thing about Cande masterminding Eman's abduction.

I had forgotten about Cande's helping in Val's attempted murder cover up. Thank you. Well, that only strengthens the argument further.

Diana
 

Oh, it was, JudyB and I totally agree and was trying to express my agreement by being funny with my quip! Yes, Doris it IS hilarious AND sidebar worthy!
 

Ladies, I am with you. And it makes me mad at myself because I really appreciated Cris's level headedness at the onset of thid TN, but I did so with the belief that as crimes mounted, his level of action would too. I submitted this before and submit it again: WHY did we not get Detective Cris, searching for clues while he lived in that madhouse? That's the most (only?) logical reason for him staying as long as he has, especially after finding out that his parents are emotionally abusive kidnappers. I mean, he knows his father has abandoned two children, at least. He witnessed E's abuse. He's struggled with Aldonza's threats and the wedge those threats made between them - why have him do all that and make all those empty threats, and not show him even trying to back things up with some evidence, either for or against his folks? This makes NO sense to me. Who does it serve to have him in the house sadly moping/seething with impotence all day?
 

Pato and Mari has spent more time together than any other young couple in this tn. Even more than Al and Renato.
 

Don't serve nobody and nothing, Hella. Doris, should we take the pin up of Cris in his pre-shower scene (which nobody mentioned and which happened on the same day that Eman ripped off his shirt in grief) down where it hangs near the Cougar table? I'm good either way.

;D
 

Candela masterminded the kidnapping of Emanuel and knows about Vile's attempt on Aldonza's life, which she did not report. Both of which could send her to prison.

From her perspective the worst thing that could happen is the loss of Cristobal. However that could also lead to what I had in mind for her, which is the manicomio. Between the loss of Cristobal (once he knows about her role in Emanuel's kidnapping), what has happened to her recently, and ultimately learning about the murders I think she could lose what's left of her mind.
 

If Cande isn't allowed to live and in seeking a redemption for herself,made to make the big speech to Aldonza and her son( and I would want E-man thrown in too) for her part in all the travesties, just offing her somehow and then most assuredly Sev leaves a big void to me in trying to allow Allie and Cris to move forward. I don't see how Cris can just go sailing on in the near future with both parents being killed, all the secrets we need to be spilled and no resolution between Cande and Allie.

So, I'm still of the mind she will survive, but give up on life, hand over everything to Cris and cloister herself to pray for forgiveness the rest of her days. That would align with her chastising of PJ for turning to God, when she winds up having to do the same herself for her own reasons. Either that, or she does something that lands her in jail. Either way, I think we need her to spill her part and beg for the forgiveness from all concerned, including Dom who stood by her and she deceived as well. Someone has to have the big dramatic "I realize the errors of my ways" of the parent crowd. Hum isn't part of the feud group to count, though at least he made his peace with Eman I think.

Ok - like Sara-- time for the meetings.

Daisynjay
 

thanks, hellashelle, for that excellent recap of yet another disturbing episode.I especially enjoyed "battle braids."

The show is turning into Murder She Wrote. Sev is just asking g to be out bout of his miserable self. Who's gonna do it ?

I, too, do not want mean Mari to have a sudden redemption and a happy Pato ending.

I, too, have had enough of Lola's baby voice . ughie

How ironic that Candy has now been raped by Sev. Did she ever suspect that he got Al out of town in this way.

Sev is getting creepier and creepier..his one eye is a need slit.

Cris..please...galan?...no way. I need a hero. Get proactive.

as for that final scene...Did Candy really shot Sev or just dream about it?
 

Need???...that was supposed to be "meer'...his one eyebis a meer slit.
 

Disclaimer --- I meant no insult to plant life. (LOL!!!)
 

Susanlynn - I think your tablet/auto-correct is mocking you and is in dire need of redemption. ;-)
 

My biggest problem with La Sombra is this:

LSdP is a very dark tlenovela. with horrible themes of abuse, rape, crime, you-name-it and Looneyvision has it on at 6E/7C p.m. Most of the time, this is the hour for more family-oriented viewing, kiddievelas (e.g., Rosy Ocampo), etc.

WHAT was LOONEYvision thinking when they put it on at this hour???
 

Susanlynn, I have noticed that about this actor's eyes. I wonder whether one of them is glass.

I don't think Candela ever thought about how Sev forced the Alcocer women out of SL. I'm not sure she will think about it until and unless Cris tells her that Aldonza was raped. She would make the connexion then. One way or the other he has to know that Sev did that and it will either be:

-- He tells Candela about Aldonza's rape
-- He overhears Candela and Dominga about Candela being raped by Sev (which she is determined not to tell Cris)

There are three other rapes that we know about:

-- the young prostitute
-- Simoneta
-- Don Antonio's sister

Aldonza knows about the last one and Simoneta is dead. If the young prostitute resurfaces that could become known, but didn't that happen in DF?
 

Doris, they might be trying to boost ratings in that time slot, although I think that Trampa should have been put there instead and Sombra put in at 9 or 10.

7PM EST is a difficult time slot because of a whole section of the country getting the program at 6PM. Unless everyone has VCRs and DVRs or watches it on the website.
 

UrbanA - It comes on at 6pm here (Central Time Zone) and there is no way I could eat a meal and watch it at the same time. Lots of families watch TV while eating supper, and those kids do not need to be seeing this stuff, IMHO.
 

Thank you Hellashelle, wonderful job. It's only 8:20am here and there are already 48 comments. Sheesh!

I was wondering too if that final scene was a dream by either Cande or Sev.
They seem to be lining everyone up with a desire and a motive to kill Sev. So I'm guessing that he will be found shot dead but we may never know who did the actual shooting. I personally hope it ends this way, that would be so cool.
 

Well that was a worthless meeting.

If I remember right, there have been other dark 7:00 pm EST TN's too. En Nombre was at 7:00 when it ran, or am I mistaken? This TN does seem to be taking the murder and mayhem to extreme levels. But have to admit, those doing it are acting the blazes out of it and that makes it, I daresay, watchable. In other actor's hands, I probably would have given up on this. This cast has been pretty amazing outside the leads ( and poor Pablo was just written hang-dog and not much to work with.)

I agree, it seems odd to throw in a show like this, but technically since it isn't being shown in what is considered "prime time" viewing, they don't have to adhere to the Family Hour rules. That's why you see so many more of the lighter, comedic shows at 8:00 pm EST which is the start of the recognized prime time schedule.

Daisynjay
 

I think the family hours rules probably have more to do with sex than violence, and let's face it, there has been next to no sex in this one. The only sex we had privy to is Val's. And no skin ever showed.
 

Doris..It is not all my tablet's fault. I am always multitasking while trying to quickly comment, and I do not proofread when I am rushing. Today, I am trying to tear myself away from the patio to hang out the laundry and go to the grocery store.

I sincerely hope to have a true galan in the next tn that I tune into. I do not care if he is flawed because that is human, but The galan has to have a core of strength, honor, and goodness to represent the best of human nature. It seems that the villains are getting more and more dastardly while the galans are becoming weaker and less centered, intelligent, and proactive . Come on good guys.
 

Have you guys seen that house and grounds, no wonder Cris never left. Sure he gets an allowance, his laundry done, his bed made and Dominga serves up a sit down with china three times a day. Speaking of Dominga, why is she still there or Mel? They have had a front row seats. Multiple times they knew something stunk, talked about it and decided to blind themselves.
 

UA - Cande did ask Sev how he got the Alcocer's out of town, but he told her not to worry about it and she dropped it.

Pato and Mari has spent more time together than any other young couple in this tn. Even more than Al and Renato.

Which is the worst part! She's given him excellent advice and great support. And if she had just stopped after the forced public kiss and failed noviazgo, I probably wouldn't have come to want her downfall so much. But then she told her parents and Lola E "took" her virginity and her money and left town, tried to turn her parents against Lola (guilt trips and stolen cash), withheld the Val baby info, and vowed to "steal" Pato away in her very public insult match with Lola. And now all she has to do is utter a few "mea culpas" and she gets to end up with the funniest, most adorable galan (I find him the cutest, if not the hottest)?! After spending so much of the TN manipulating and lying to people, this just rankles my nerves and my sense of injustice to the point where I am not happy that her anvil has turned to a heavy pillow and I still want a Vero/Pato ending. Sigh.
 

tofie, you ask very valid questions.

I was surprised Mel and Dom did return. I think they have a strong sense of loyalty, especially Dom to Cande. I don't believe they any idea of the extent of Sev's deeds but they certainly have more than an inkling now. Dom will stay to protect Cande now. And to a lesser extent, Cris as well.

I laughed at your explanation of why Cris stays there. Seeing everything you noted that is done for him - you can hardly blame him!

Diana
 

Mari isn't a prize for Pato but Veronica would eat Pato for a snack. Not on the same planet. I still want Pato and Lola a better match, Emanuel and Veronica, Renato and Aldonza and flat don't care what happens to the side show Mari or the satellite Cris that has spent the bulk of the show in orbit. I want Veronica and Silvia to become buddies and when Silvia is ready after her career and travel Veronica introduces her to a really cool, ghst (got his s... together) guy. Though I won't get this on the screen at the end I'm gonna pretend it did.
 

I get what you are saying about the relationship between Dominga and her "girl" but that girl left the building long ago and Dominga knew it. Mel and Dominga had cushy jobs and silence pays when you work for Severiano. So now Dominga is mad. For all the begging Cande did to get Mel and Dominga back, the drama in the house has gotten worse not better, they are also guilty of being delusional along with Cande cause Severiano was always in charge.
 

Pato and Lola - no way. Breakfast table test has failed again and again with them, as evidenced by their many tables, with Lola staring off into the sunset while Pato tries to share a story with her. So what would they talk about over the breakfast table? Nothing, b/c she rarely listens to anyone, but virtually never listens to him.

Honestly, Lola and Cris have probably been the best two-gender friend couple on this show, so they can just have each other. But I'd always feel bad for Cris because he's always wanted his relationship with Aldonza. Even if he hasn't been proactive in dealing with the surrounding issues influencing that relationship, he's never fought against it and has always been vocally for it.

Eman and Vero - I have nothing really against them, but he's the one I could see Vero riding over. Not out of malice mind you, just because she's so ready to embrace life and have fun and I'm not sure Eman will ever be able to be that open or carefree.

Renato and Aldonza - Eh. Sure, why not.


 

I'm with Tofie on Mel and Dom. They admitted it themselves when Lola asked why they didn't leave - it's hard to get a new job when you're that age and they don't want to leave Cris. Dom didn't mention Cande, but that's been made clear. Ignorance, real or deliberate, is comfortable, if not bliss.
 

Thank you, HellaShelle! This was quite an episode, and a great recap! You really came through, despite having to deal with both Sev's latest horror AND your arch-nemesis Mari.

I was only kidding yesterday about having everyone take turns holding a gun to Sev's head, but here we go again! I can't say I mind seeing Battle Braids Cande being the latest one to give Sev a taste of being helpless and at someone else's mercy. Just when I thought Sev couldn't sink any lower...bottles and bottles of who-knows-what kind of knockout chemicals in his closet? That is not right! And I keep worrying about him accidentally breaking Cande's neck, but hey, what would that matter to Sev. He's been there, done that, dumped the body.

"Gag me." Ugh, yes. I guess I was supposed to feel all moved or whatever, but she has a long way to go. It's a good start. I guess. She still doesn't deserve Pato! And all this is because Vero gave her a talking-to? Well, sign Vero up to do seminars, then! A few more people could use them.

I'm glad Aldonza is starting to tell people about being raped. It's good for her to get it out and not having to carry around this big secret. I don't think it's enough to get her to the point where she can be with Cris, but it's a good start. And I like that Padre J pointed out that even with two arms, he couldn't prevent Sev from doing what he wanted. Sev doesn't attack openly. He sneaks. He's gotten into the house at El Santuario twice now when the door is supposed to have been locked. I don't know if they'll ever explain how he does that, but it's something that bothers me.
 

Urban Anthropologist, "Now that the entire crew at Las Animas knows that Sev has been abusing his own son for all the time he's worked there...." And you still had them insisting to Cris that they had to throw Em out or Sev would punish them. Ugh!

David, "What happened to the investigation into the body in the coffin table?" They know it's a woman and they know she was pregnant, but that's the last we heard. I don't think anyone but Lola even suspected that she was missing, but I think she backed off on thinking that after Mel reminded her that this is pretty much how she left the first time. Since Em hasn't mentioned finding the body to her or Aldonza, Lola hasn't made the connection.

HellaShelle, "do you think this will change Cande's anvil(s) (is this Cande's anvil?) or the possible future relationship between the two women?" I hate the thought of this being her anvil. Nobody deserves that. If anything, the anvil is realizing that she's not safe and there's no way her perfect-to-the-outside-world life can continue. I can't see her ever being buddy-buddy with Aldonza. Maybe they'll be able to be in the same room without clawing each other's eyes out, but I don't think it will get any better than that. They've both hated each other for too long.

doris, your quip about Cris' default facial expression cracks me up! He sure does try to keep any expression OFF his face. Makes it so priceless when he finally HAS an expression!

Daisynjay "Go ahead, redeem Mari, but make her confess stealing the money and being a genuinely selfish daughter." YES! And apologize to Em for lying about being with him in San Miguel, and apologize to Lola for being so horrible to her, and talk to her parents about how she suspects it's Lardo's baby that Val is carrying.

Lila, "Plants do photosynthesis, there is nothing on a human level Cris does that can come anywhere NEAR that!" This is hilarious! He walks upright and uses tools...can we give him credit for that?

tofie, "Multiple times they knew something stunk, talked about it and decided to blind themselves." I guess we could say that about all the staff, not just Dom and Mel, but they are privy to a lot more of the information. I get that Dom feels attached to Cande, but come on! Move out. Get another job and visit every once in a while. OK, that's pretty snobby of me. It's not easy for most people to just get another job whenever they want one. And Mel's right when he worries that he's going to be seen as "too old" vs. "has a lifetime of valuable experience."

I'm a DVR-er when it comes to this show. It actually works out better than a lot of others, because if I'm not going out for the evening I can watch and recap in real time. But if I am out, or if I don't want to watch it with dinner, then whenever I'm ready, it's on the DVR waiting for me. The problem with the later shows is, if I'm home, I'm waiting for them to start. I got to this time slot entirely by accident when some other show changed its schedule, but it's really working for me. Time-wise anyway. Topic-wise...I can't figure out QTH they're doing!
 

For all intent and purposes, I would guess Dom is the one who really raised Cris within the house, and Mel with the love of horses. They have an attachment to him that is one step away from being his grandparents ( which apparently he never had since that was never discussed.) And face it, Dom treats Cande like her daughter, albeit a spoiled one who throws tantrums and tells her off. Haven't we seen those type familial relationship ourselves?

But Cris has always been a mystery to me in that he can't get further than the stables when things go bad. Cripes, he could have moved in with Allie when still married to her, with Joaquin, heck that hotel wasn't so bad either. But I love your analysis tofie...when you have that big of a place and everything has always been done for you, well, let's be honest, he doesn't really know how to get out in the world and fend for himself. Going to college doesn't count either...you're on a campus, mumsy and dad were sending cash and he didn't have to actually work and run things for himself. Sort of sad...

Let's be honest, Allie and Cris are like the Jane and Mr. Bingley in Pride and Prejudice. Lovely people, not the brightest tacks in the room for all their education, not good in a crisis unless others are there to help, reign them in, or frankly figure out what to do for them. They will live happily ever after as long as the Bod Squad and Scooby gang are around to take care of things.

Daisynjay
 

Holy moly while I have not catched up to the show Sev is a terrible monster but he will most likely evade the bullet somehow or this was just for show ( Maybe Candy fired the bullet upwards just to creep Sev out ) . He deserves a very very big anvil but I suppose he might not be getting it in grand packages telling from experience ( The really great and cruel anvils were in older shows . Nowadays its just one gun / knife fight that ends their reign of terror when they deserve something much crueler. I liked the anvils from La Patrona a lot.)
 

Hey now Daisynjay, don't hate on P&P! :P

I want to give Cris some leeway. Aldonza has accused his dad of everything, with basically no evidence. She hasn't told him what the foundational reason for her hate is. She's hot and cold for their relationship every few days.

And, most importantly, these are his parents.

The fall has been slow and painful, but when you love people you give them the benefit of the doubt. You give them multiple chances. You hold out hope that the other person is wrong, it's a misunderstanding. It's the reason why so many TN couples break up and make up over and over again: the drunken one night stand, the overreaction fight, the condemnation based on false facts. I'd like to believe Cris is like the Titantic: He was confident, even overconfident, that his parents were good people and that his and Aldonza's love was the most important thing. The initial hits with Aldonza were like the iceberg: He didn't see it coming and he still doesn't know how big it is under the surface. The same way the Titanic stayed afloat for hours afterwards, he's been thinking everything would be ok for months. Now, he's realizing that that his parents are the iceberg and it's a way bigger problem than he thought. There may not be survivors.

But just like those people first thought everything would be ok he's been thinking it can't be as bad as it is. Because these are his parents. He's only now realizing it can't be fixed and he has to get out. He's either got to climb onto a piece of wreckage and make it his new ship or freeze to death like Jack.
a pin prick, catastrophic in the fabric
 

Hellashelle--Masterful piece of work. You got some guns of your own in your arsenal of words. Thank you.

Before I finish reading the comments (about 1/3 of the way through), might I interject something to think about? (And pardon the duplication if already mentioned.)

As horrifying as Cande's reaction was to the rape, Aldonza had it worse. She was conscious through the whole thing and a virgin; Cande was chloroformed and only knew what was "about" to happen. I'm not saying that minimizes the criminality of the deed, just that when we assume that Cande and Aldonza might bond over this experience, it wasn't quite the same.
 

This is true. Rape has to exponentially worse for a virgin than for a woman with multiple years of experience.
 

"Let's be honest, Allie and Cris are like the Jane and Mr. Bingley in Pride and Prejudice"
SNORT! and WORD!!!
 

I don't think comparisons are a good road to go down. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Cande tries to make one--that she has only ever been with one man, who then betrayed her trust in multiple ways, whereas she "knows" Aldonza has been with other men. See what I mean about comparisons not leading anywhere good?
 

Hey I don't hate on P&P. I love me my Austen!! It's just more and more Allie and Cris remind me of them. Cris the privileged rich nice young man who had to have direction from everyone before doing anything, you know the drill.

I think I would have loved those two to be more Elizabeth and Darcy. Feisty and pigheaded, but good hearted and a man of action when needed. now THAT would have made for a couple.

Daisynjay
 

Now I need to go watch P&P for, like, the umpteenth time. LOL :-)
 

True, Darcy and Elizabeth were dynamic...Jane and Bingley were sweet, but too malleable, and probably why they weren't the ones at the center of the story!
 

The six-hour version with Colin Firth? ;) It does stand up to repeated re-watching.
 

I have been happy to see how Aldonza and Eman have bonded over the last many episodes as siblings, and how he has taken Padre's words to heart about protecting her. I appreciated how he gently convinced her to come along with him into town-- both to break her out of her mourning and sadness a bit, and also to keep her safe. The ease with which Sever has broken into that house multiple times always made me think his grandfather had shared with him the layout of the house and ways to get in without people knowing.

Also happy that Eman made peace with Cris, but made it clear he will never consider THAT MAN his father.
 

Noticed last night since Adelina is gone and Renato no where in sight it is Emanuel who does everything for Aldonza, he's the new gofer. She rarely had done anything for herself, not even a phone call. Talk about an entitled princess and Cris thinks he's the guy for her when he's never gone grocery shopping.

We've said it a hunert times but Aldonza has never been as into Cris as much as he is into her and he's looking more a pathetic beta loser. I didn't feel brotherly love as he and Emanuel began to speak and what did Cris jump to, why come on bud tell me every thing Aldonza is doing.

Guess no one is trying to find the guys that attacked Silvia either. For such an idyllic place, SL is not safe, even in broad daylight.
 

I have not seen Eman as Al's gofer at all. Just a supportive brother while she grieves. She's been keeping herself to herself mostly since Adelina died. Not coming out of the house or doing much, so there's not really any gofering to do.
 

silly tofie. Cris plans to have staff, obvio! Ok, maybe not. He did manage to look after himself in Spain, and at least part of that time was as an adult and before Val went over. I suppose he could have lived in some kind of swanky apartment that had staff included, but I dunno.
 

Aldonza doesn't bark orders but she has everybody offering cause she stays in a pout, justifiable pout at times but everybody does everything for her. Now it's her younger brother. Oh wait, she did take the initiative to file for divorce.
 

Ah - Jane and Bigley! My bad; in that case, yes, particularly on the Bingley. In fact, Cris plays both of those parts pretty well.

Recommendation: Mr. Darcy Takes a Wife. Apprently, not for purists, but I loved it.
 

It's nice that she has people around who help her in tough times, but as much as she depends on them, it's a really good thing they're trustworthy! If Renato was still going through his crazyjealous phase, he could do a lot of damage just because she says "OK, you take care of it," so often.
 

Funny you mention that Kat, I spoke before on the thread of Yo No of a university friend, co cheerleader and trust fund baby who had no concept of how the world worked. Her parents had bought a townhouse near university for her to stay and had a woman come three times a week to clean and do her laundry. I don't think she ever turned on the stove or had been in a grocery store.
 

When Eman was having his bout with depression, Aldonza made meals for and watched over him. We just saw her caring for her uncle and cooking for him too. When something happens to a person you care for, especially a family member, you step up. That's what Eman is doing. Plus, he has the added charge by Padre to protect Al from Sever. They both know she has a big, and very real, target on her back.
 

It sounds cushy, but it's a scary kind of cushy. It's all great while there's money, but if the money runs out, then what? I don't think either Chris or Aldonza is totally defenseless in that way, but I'm not sure how far their domestic skills can get them. It might be cereal for breakfast and sandwiches for lunch and dinner, but they'll survive.
 

I would like to see Cande join the same convent that Aldonza ran to for protection. While there, the young still-on-probation nun (novitiate?) could show her the ropes. She could spend most of her time praying and bemoaning her lifetime of bad behavior, agonizing over every perverse thing she has ever done.

I certainly don't want Sev to take a bullet to the head from anyone. It would seem more fitting if he had to live the rest of his life incapable, impotent and irrelevant to the flow of life. I think that would put him in a mental state of anguish that would be impossible to overcome.

Madelyn has informed me that it's good to have ants in your house because they take everything on the floor back to their ant hill, so you never have to sweep the floor.

David
 

Lol, David, Madelyn is wise :)
 

Aldonza can cook. Cris, not so sure about him. I'm also pretty sure she knows how to clean. Again, Cris, not so sure. They'd figure it out if forced to be on their own.
 

Indeed, Madelyn is very wise. Although, when the ants start stealing the food you actually want, then it gets to be a problem.
 

Diva - I have the 6-hr version, while even the 2-hr movie with Matthew Mcfayden and Keira Knightly always give me a quick fix. ;-)

Let's be glad La Sombra doesn't have Mr. Collins!
 

Perfect recap, Hellashelle, of a perfectly awful episode.

Cande's anvil has begun. I don't like that she was raped, but I don't feel sorry for her. Nobody "deserves" to be raped, don't get me wrong, but as horrible as she's been to Aldonza and Eman and, yes, even Cris by not allowing him to be happy with the woman he loves, nothing that happens to her will make me feel bad for her. If she were my mother, I could very well see myself leaving her and never looking back. Redemption schmedemption!

I won't even go into the subject of Severado.

Which is why I don't understand el idiota de Cristobal still living at home with Mommy and Daddy Dearest. But as ineffectual and clueless as he is, I still prefer him 100% over Oblivio from CI and Pablum from TSTSNBM (hmmm same actor, these two) ... by a mile!
 

I think Aldonza can clean she knows you wear white pants when you dress for it. Cris I bet has no clue.


 

I intensely dislike the framing of Cande's rape as punishment. It puts Sev in the position of being an instrument of justice, which...no. Just no. This was another crime of Sev's. That it was perpetrated upon an unlikeable character doesn't make it anything more than that.
 

What a sweetheart, David!
 

Housekeeping chores--As I recall, Cris' apartment in Spain looked spare but clean. I'm sure his parents could have provided someone to cook and clean, but we don't know. I'm enjoying watching my grandson and his girlfriend set up housekeeping in their first very own apartment. They are recent college graduates starting their first full-time jobs. They aren't as inept as the Patio is making Cris and Aldie out to be, but learning how to divide up the chores and the expenses.
 

I agree Diva-- no way should Cande's rape be taken as her "punishment". it's just wrong, it is a crime, and she be treated as such. Now, does it make her more sympathetic to the audience, yes. But what it should serve to do, crappy as it was to put it in, is to pave the way for her to have better understanding of the evil that is Sev and when everything spills out he had done, realize that much of that was aided and abetted by her as well.

I for one would like nothing better than for TN's to just plain stop "rape" as a plot ploy used and tossed around like some woman simply got injured in an accident or got a boo boo that just needs to heal with a bandaid.

Daisynjay
 

Hellashelle, thank you for a really wondetful recap.
Sev has just really gone to hell now, he don't really care any more. This is what It looks like when a person is dead inside, no soul and no heart, an absence of humanity, just total black evil. DEATH IS IMMIENT!!!!!!!
Mari should keep on confessing about:
Lying about Eman taking advantage of her, to
Get her money, he didn't.
Stealing the money, makeing them think lola did it , she didn't. and probably some other stuff she did she need to confess, cuz if she don't I ain't buying this turn around I don't care if 48 more hours left.
DID she or didn't she? (Kill Sev Mendoza ) what y'all think? I guess we'll just have to wait and see tonight. Some of us sooner than others.:-D I like what mel told cris, " mel tells him to take it one step at a time, like the night
Your problems will also pass". Wise old guy, the best granpa cris never had.
Cris has alluded to leaving twice but yet he's still there. O cristobel, leave aready!!! He might do it now. We'll see.
 

I agree, it's unnecessary. The whole point was to get her to leave town. There were plenty of other ways to do that. It's just lazy, crappy writing, and at this point, they're struggling to undo the damage they did, because none of us are going to find it believable to have Aldonza and Chris together in the end.
 

Again, I wonder how folks felt about the rape of the heroine by the galan's father the first few times in was done with this story. It's clearly meant to be central to this particular tale, so the question should be put to the original writer. Why did s/he feel it needed to be part of the story? There must have been some reason.

Usually, rape of a heroine early in the story is used as a device to make her hard/bitter, and distrusting of others (e.g. Dona Barbara; La Patrona). This is not the case with Aldonza, but having the rapist be the father of the guy she loves, sure served to screw up any chances they had of running off happily into the sunset and forgetting their problems (even if it was just for a little while). Was that the point? If so, yes, it was successful. But I can't see how in this version, or ANY of the last versions, the writers can come back from that and make everything ok.

 

Why did the original writer feel it was needed? Because they couldn't think of anything else. Simple laziness.

No, I don't know what I would have done instead, but that's why I'm not a writer!

It's the same laziness that leads them to fall back on multiple breakups and makeups and a lack of trust to...well, not even to move the story FORWARD, but to keep it stagnant for just long enough to get to the right number of episodes, and then it's "ok, take off the brakes!" and suddenly people start thinking again just in time for the gran final.
 

One of the elements I've thought they were trying to explore is the core element of this story: sins of the father (or mother). In this case, Aldonza has been villified by the townspeople because of her mother's...flirtatious ways. Cris has never held that against her, but Rob's flirting wasn't a crime against him. The question has always been if Aldonza can seperate Cris enough from his father's crime against her to be happy with him. Cris didn't do anything; he wasn't even involved.

SPOILER (for those that haven't seen DQTQTQ)




This would've been even more prevalent in DQTQTQ, but I didn't follow that discussion so closely, though I watched the TN. A man tries to rape the protag. He doesn't succeed, and ends up in a coma. Years later, the protag falls for his identical twin, though at first she thinks it's the same guy with amnesia. I can't remember, did the Patio struggle as much with that happy ending? Or was it less so because the assault was stopped before the protag was raped (though she was still traumatized)?
 

That's one reason I"m getting tired of these rehashes of old TN's. What may have been the way society looked at things, or was the way a woman had to deal with things, may have been fine to portray if this was historical. But they are moving these plots to the 21st century and then trying to force-feed the plots into present day.

If Allie felt she had no one to trust in SL, and we can get that, her auntie did her no service not encouraging her to seek counseling when they left town. Heck, at the college campus there are always counselors or even expert professors/psychologists should could have confided in. She could have reached out at the local hospital. What a great PSA that could have been. There would still have been drama being Sev didn't leave her alone. But no, she got NADA and so this whole "Cris reminds me of his father" becomes insane to think it makes sense and will magically be a non-issue when dear old dad is out of the picture. For that matter, They should have shown Cris seeking guidance and understanding so he can be a better partner to his wife who has gone through this.

They gave us nothing!!! And to that, I say Shame on the writers and everyone involved in putting this on the screen because I can see it looks like they are going to just try and make this better with the villian's demise and maybe now Cande's understanding and then the love birds will be ok.

If they aren't going to be smart and at least put a present day spin on things, then stop these plots. I'm amazed there isn't more outrage at these tired old plots with the poor way the women are shown to have to deal with it.

Daisynjay
 

ITA Vivi, "but I can't see how the writers are going to come back from this version, or any of the versions to make this OK. Well they could do one of those time lapes things, where time passes and theres healing, people had time to think about stuff, forgive
Stuff people have done, ( not the rape).
Maybe she can look pass sev and just see cris for who he is. I don't know what the hell they're going to do with this, cuz they got three nights left so it will be interesting to see how it turns out in order for these two people to get together. Happily. Talk about pulling a rabbit out of a hat!!!!
 

Nina- We actually have another week and a half to go, so they have quite a few more hours to try to get us to a place where we can accept the happy ending.
 

I hated the end of DQTQTQ, it was stupid and didn't want them together

I'm ok with the story line including something so horrible as rape but where I think this ran into the ground is when jr high drama juxtaposed the relationship between Aldonza and Cris. Not like there were more important issues that could have been explored instead of a mean girl kiss and some jealously because there is another guy in the picture.

I think they can do remakes. Watching Yo No Creo En Los Hombres (UA referenced a 1971 version in one of her recaps) and the cast in particular awesome and story entertaining but it too might run aground.

I'd also add there is a huge difference in the ability of Adriana Louvier and Michelle Renaud

 

We've discussed this "evolution" of plots before - the almost inevitable ramping up of violence, sex, and other controversial topics across all of television as producers try to find something "edgy" that they think will excite viewers and therefore capture their attention.

I think I'm getting so used to it that the act itself in a drama doesn't shock me, but the follow up (or lack thereof) does. And maybe that's the way it's designed, but I'm with Daisy in saying if they're going to use this plot point as a cornerstone for drama, then give its aftermath a fullness worth or such a serious crime.

On the other hand, as I type that, I realize I've almost discounted Sev's murders. I insist on a worthy follow up for rape, but haven't put nearly as much thought into his multiple murders. Is that because the victim is gone while Aldonza has to continue living with the trauma?
 

Typo: worthy of*
 

And I admit I have no emotional reaction now to knowing Roberta put a hole in the back of her husband to save her lover. That alone pretty nasty doings and how would an Aldonza come to terms with that much less a rape
 

Within just a couple of days Aldonza found out she had a brother (the product of an affair between her mother and her rapist), and that he had been kidnapped by said rapist; that her father was murdered; that her mother murdered her father to protect her rapist; that her beloved uncle was leaving town; and then her aunt (real mother in every sense but biological) was murdered. Not many would be functional right now with all that within a few days.
 

Kris, thank you for the recap.

I just finished my recap for LI which included a rape and quite frankly I'm tired of seeing rape on my tv. There are other ways to move a story along and not have a character endure that, to me it is lazy writing and I'm disgusted that this seems to be a trend in novelas.

1. La Reina Del sur
2. Amor Bravio
3.Lo Imperdonable
4. Que te perdone dios
5.La sombra Del pasado

5 novelas (and I think I'm missing one) all had a rape happen, hell I think QTPD had more than that, am I the only one disturbed by this?
 

Eli, no, you're not the only one. My outspokenness in the comments is part of the way I cope. I critique, I try to counter the narrative. I can't keep it from being included in a show, but I can damn well NOT go along with the BS narratives they try to create around it. No, killing the perpetrator doesn't magically bring recovery. Yes, taking advantage of someone while they're drunk IS rape. Yes, men can be raped. No, not everyone is physically or psychologically capable of fighting back. No, it is NEVER the victim's fault. They are NEVER asking for it. It does NOT lessen a person's worth.
 

Eli- I actually think the list of tns that DON'T include a rape or rape attempt is shorter than those that do, and mainly contains the comedy tns, and even those aren't immune. Honestly, this is one of those things I scratch my head over and wonder if it's something cultural we're not getting about the meaning and implications of rape in Mexican society.
 

There were at least six rapes or brutal attempts in Que te Perdone (three to the same woman, who later gave the bastard a second chance). Not a single one was punished by law or really explored in any real way.
 

It's not just the TNs, Vivi...it's English-language TV, movies, and books as well. I'm somewhat comforted by the fact that people are starting to take notice and objecting. If you Google "stop using rape as a plot point" there are plenty of entertainment criticism blogs and blogs for writers talking about why this needs to stop.
 

Maybe part of it is the weight we now give to sexual assault catching up to the media. It was only a couple of generations ago that rapes could be ignored without people demanding action. Sex sells is a saying for a reason, but the mainstays -- virginity vs. slut shaming -- have had the wheel forever. Perhaps rape is considered "the next level," so to speak.
 

But they're not giving it weight. They're treating it too lightly. It's not a last resort when nothing else will work to move the plot in the direction they want, it's becoming the default every time the writers decide they need something bad to happen to a woman.
 

It's actually a shame that Cristobal didn't turn out to be the son of Jeronimo instead. However, the writers would have had to have made him Raimundo's cousin or best friend to remove the Ick Factor of Cristobal and Aldonza being first cousins.

That could be in the next version in about 5 years or so.
 

Thank goodness I seem to be missing those American shows. Outlander definitely had the most explicit rape scenes I've ever seen, but it felt historically accurate and true to the story to me.
 

I take that back, because I'm obviously forgetting Game of Thrones. I guess it is all over US tv too.
 

Yep. Pretty much. And when something like GoT uses the "historical accuracy" excuse, it really falls flat. The have dragons. It's fiction. Writers make decisions all the time. They need to quit acting like they just "had" to include rape.
 

No, I mean the weight we give to sexual assault in the real world (or at least the lip service we give to weight of sexual assault). Producers know that it's (supposed to be) considered a heinous crime and that we're tired of the virginal vs slut dynamic that has reined over TNs for so long.
 

Then I'm really not understanding, because what you're saying, HellaShelle, sounds like a reason they need to stop, not escalate. Unless you're saying this is some kind of really terribly misguided attempt to be relevant.
 

Thank you Vivi for telling me that. I don't know where I got 3 more nights from but still they're gonna have to do a lot to bring these two people together because there are a lot of unfinished stuff and unanswered guestions, and confessions.
Its sad but apparently rape sells or violence or whatever these sick people can think of to bring the audiance in. and some might say sex sells but rape is not sex there is a difference unfortunately there are those that don't think so. So we're going to have these rape scenes as a plot point.
And it's not just Game of Thrones it's that other show thats on with this woman goes back in time, Outlander.
 

YES!!! LOL, That's exactly what I'm saying!

I think this is a pattern across TV in every genre. I feel like this conversation happens every decade with whatever the new gate the media decides to jump. And maybe this is just speaks to my TV tastes in the 80s, 90s, but I feel like there was a premium placed on family shows and programming that died down into "drama" that was rife with significantly more violence.
 

I get that they're trying to be realistic and not have everything be all fake sugar-coated junk, but you don't just get that by adding more violence. They have to work on solid stories, and maybe, oh, I dunno, actually LEARNING about the effects of the violence they want to include to make an informed decision about whether that's really the direction the have to take the story.
 

I don't think male writers really know how to do that.
 

Vivi...and in Outlander, the rape victim was the hero just as in the book which was written twenty years ago. It was a very graphic scene, and it was so much worse seeing it than reading it. The trauma of the aftermath was also depicted and will continue to be addressed in the next season. The effects of the rape will not just disappear.

 

Know how to write well? That seems a little harsh.

No, I'm kidding. I know what you mean. And that's a cop-out. They need to try. They need to run the writing by a survivor. Or they need to just cut it out. It also assumes that women would somehow automatically know better...and that's not entirely correct either.
 

I think we can all agree with that. I've only seen Sombra and AB off of ELi's list, so I can't speak for the other TNs, but (again, possible spoiler below for those who haven't seen AB)












I was VERY impressed with the way AB handled its storyline and imo, it was even more horrifying than Sombra's. But the way the galan in question handled the fear the protag experienced was amazing, people actually suggested therapy and the protag actually WENT, things didn't work out perfectly, but she was given options and supported. I thought it was great.
 

I too am a avid watcher of GOT and while I understand that the show ( And the books) are based in the mediaval times, the violence is just too strong. Especially to women. There is a rape occurence or a mention of it in every season. I love the show very much but they should focus on more character development rather then shoveling sex crimes on us.