Saturday, April 15, 2017

Weekend Discussion 4/15/17: Vino el Amor Karmageddon comes to Sonoma

Who would have thought that the snake from the Garden of Eden really lurks in a vineyard? Well, it's time he bites the evil ones in this pastoral tale. As usual we will ask the following two questions:

What do you think the writers will do to them?
What do you think they really deserve?

Let's start with the self-styled queen and her spawn:

Lillian / Azela Robinson

Guilty of tricking Brian Gutiérrez into deporting Marcos and Luciana (with the intention of having him deport the entire family), sabotaging Brian's bid for sheriff, hypocrisy (all in the family), embezzling from the Los Angeles vineyard coffers, and of ridiculous self-importance.

Graciela / Kimberly Dos Ramos

Guilty of murdering her sister, enlisting Fernanda in a scheme to frame Luciana for grand theft, unwarranted snobbery, potential sabotage of David's wine promotion, poisoning Fernanda's mind against her father's romantic future, hiring a defrocked psychiatrist to mess with Fernanda's mental health, lack of concern for her alleged true love's financial future, immature Mean Girl behavior, and thinking she is All That.

Fernanda / Sofia Castro

Guilty of planting the earrings and lying in Graciela's scheme to frame Luciana, spoiled brat behavior, hypocrisy, playing with the emotions of a young man (Peter), ongoing conspiracy with Graciela, tantrums (multiple offenses), unwarranted snobbery, and serious self-delusion.

Juan Téllez / Christian de la Campa

Guilty of sabotaging David's wine production (first succinic acid, then illegal pesticide that sickened workers), of sabotaging workers' documentation, aiding and abetting Lillian's scheme to destroy Marta and her family, human trafficking, and taking sexual advantage of Perla while dragging her into the trafficking scheme, using Carito to infiltrate David's winery, setting the phylloxera plague in motion (which caused the death of Erika Ballesteros), unspoken misogyny, and major delusions of grandeur.

Perla / Gloria Aura

Guilty of lying, bullying behavior, human trafficking, failure to report various crimes (committed by Juan and Mark), vanity, and weak-mindedness.

Carito / Yanet Sedano

Guilty of lying, bullying behavior, human trafficking, failure to report various crimes (committed by Juan and Mark), and lack of self-preservation.

Brian Gutiérrez / Juan Vidal

Guilty of deporting Luciana and Marcos at Lillian's behest, false arrest of Ramón due to jealousy over Marta, two-timing of Lillian and Marta, and confusing us as to whether he is good or bad.

[Too slippery to have a mugshot]
Dr.” Anderson / (?)

Guilty of practicing without a license and taking bribe money to gaslight Fernanda with destructive mental manipulation and illegal prescriptions.

Mark / Juan Carlos Serrano Rima (RIP or Rest in Pieces)

Guilty of domestic violence, emotional abuse, blackmail, sexually predatory behaviour (toward Perla), and human trafficking, murder of El Coyote, kidnapping and abuse of Carito, siccing thugs on Miguel, attempted blackmail of Susan through attempt on Luciana's life, being an eyesore, and serious misogyny.

Karmageddon: Shot in the head by Brian Guttiérez during a police standoff.

El Coyote / (?) (RIP or Rest in Pieces)

Guilty of human trafficking, murder, attempted kidnapping, and making viewers lose their lunches.

Karmageddon: Murdered by Mark

Labels: ,

I'm terrible at this stuff. That's why I recap stories and don't write them. Anyway, we'll know more about all of these people in a week. Right now it's hard to offer more than vague guesses, but here goes:

Even if David presses charges against Lilian, perhaps she will get probation or house arrest rather than prison time. I doubt that Adolfo will want to be with her after finding out what kind of person she is and especially that she was once in league with Juan. For sure the biggest blow to her will be the one against her self-importance when everyone abandons her.

Graciela probably has to die, but she could also lose her mind and end up in a state hospital. (Someone has already suggested that she do painting after painting of David naked except for a vest.) Or being disfigured and landing in prison. I don't really have a preference, as long as it's bad.

Fernanda is the victim of a lazy upbringing and a lot of manipulation. Finding out what her beloved aunt did to her mother will be a serious blow. It will more than make up for what she's done.

Juan is also guilty of embezzling from David, but I suppose that's the least of his offenses. I still want him to get mangled in industrial equipment, but the odds of this are small. I think this guy needs to get killed, either on the outside or in prison. I feel that he still needs to learn that he's not as smart as he thinks he is.

Perla will probably get caught in the cross-fire when Juan (I predict) tries to harm Carito. Carito will hopefully be okay and end up smarter and stronger than she was before.

Brian: way too soon to tell since we can't tell which side of the fence he's on. I think he will try to make things right, but on the other hand wasn't he classified as a villain at the Premios?

Dr Evil: Whatever the authorities did to him before obviously wasn't enough if he was still able to prescribe and/or obtain drugs for Fernanda (perhaps it was only a temporary suspension), so this time they need to give him a punishment that will stick. Who knows what else he's been up to lately? Maybe he gets in even bigger trouble and ends up on the news. That would ruin him.

Thanks, Urban. Great lineup of the offenders' offenses.

Juan - Someone predicted earlier that Juan would be driven to suicide, like his dad. I'm going to second this because it would be poetic. He'll be caught, cornered, and refuse to be taken cause he's terrified of prison.

Perla - She'll mourn Juan and join a women's self-empowerment group, in prison.

DisGrace - When the truth is discovered, she flees the country with the help of her art agent and lives life on the lam as a recluse. She slowly goes mad, stops wearing makeup, doing her hair and nails, as she imagines David in Luciana's arms.

Lillian - She lucks up and marries poor Adolfo for his money, prestige, and protection. I don't like it, but they've been trying to redeem her a bit with her empathy in Adolfo's loss of Erica and her concern for the fake psych drugging Fer.

Gut - Not really a villain, but wishy-washy playing Lil and Marta as well as Juan and David. He gets wounded in the line of duty and Lil and Marta fight to see who visits him first at his sick bed. Of course, his chest is bear cause he's not wearing a hospital gown.


Ha ha, Niecie, Gut not wearing a hospital gown!
I just finished adding the deleted scenes for #125, and Gut actually dumps Lil. I can't believe they cut this out. Then Lil has a meltdown. Maybe this is Lil's first anvil. It also puts Gut on the good-guys side for me.

I can't believe they cut that either. It was the first thing I thought of when I read the recap originally.

What I think the writers will do:

Lillian is being set up for partial or conditional redemption. Maybe she gets immunity for ratting Juan out but she gets banished from David's home. She has to live in a modest apartment and -- horror of horrors! -- work for a living.

Graciela will meet a dire end under An Eye for An Eye.

Fernanda will freak out, need a shrink, then will go off to college because she needs to get the hell away from all this.

Juan will go mad, confess all, and end up in a hospital for the criminally insane. This will follow whatever crimes he has not yet committed.

Perla will die. She's used the "d" word too many times for that not to be the case.

Brian will leave Sonoma.

Dr Evil will never be mentioned again due to the writers' leaving loose ends.

If Fernanda gets a shrink, that opens the door to revealing what Dr Evil did - because that shrink will probably know about Dr Evil's past.

Good point. That would be good, but it would also end up as an anti-climax since DisGrace will have the longest and hardest fall of all these villains. Unless the action plays as I mentioned in the episode discussion Juan would fall first.

While Nuria fell first in AQNMD I don't know that this break in the usual rules will happen again. It would be good to take out some of these cliches and not necessarily have the biggest evil-doer fall last.

It wouldn't surprise me either if Evil Martin Mull, a.k.a. Dr. Evil, is perhaps mentioned but never actually seen again. His only purpose at this point is to link Fernanda's therapy to Graciela, and that could actually be sidelined if the writers decided to focus on Fernanda's freakout when she finds out what Graciela did to her mother.

Speaking of Fernanda...since her karma is the aforementioned revelation, and she's already been set up for redemption via helping Cesar out (offscreen, because that makes sense) and her poodle-haired sane boyfriend, her story for all intents will probably end with her putting Graciela on blast for that, and her and Lilian on blast for using her. After that, it almost literally doesn't matter what happens to her; she and Tano can run off to college together.

Juan almost assuredly has to die at the end of things, though I like the idea that he commits suicide. Somehow, though, I doubt we'll get anything that poetic out of these writers; more likely than not he'll get arrested, maybe wounded along the way, and end up getting whacked in prison (another general novela cliche).

Graciela...her fate really is a tossup. Would she get killed? Would she end up in a rubber room? The odds seem to be about even, IMO.

Lilian is virtually guaranteed to survive because she has to live with knowing what Graciela did, on top of her ongoing partial redemption. That said I'm with UA on this: she's absolutely getting bounced from Bodega de Los Angeles at a minimum, assuming she doesn't somehow end up in jail (and the one thing she's done that can accomplish that: party to embezzlement), she loses her one apparent friend in Adolfo on top of her modestly plush lifestyle, and finishes her transformation into Elvira from El Talisman.

As for Perla and Carito...the show can't kill them both, and whomever does die is karma for the other. Carito's definitely a little further down the redemptory path than Perla is at this point, however. So I'm thinking that yes, Perla goes, and she goes protecting Carito somehow (likely from Juan, and cue his freakout over killing his girlfriend).

...oh, right, and then there's Brian. At this almost doesn't even matter. Could the show whack him to up the fairly low body count?

"(RIP or Rest in Pieces)" - excellent UA!

Thank you for posting this and adding the list of the characters wrongdoings.

To me, Graciela is Sauron, though I do not wish her death. Imprisonment among a less than welcoming population would be a just and fitting punishment. I see her descending into madness which in reality is not a far cry from the delusional world in which she currently exists.

If Juan does not die before he is incarcerated, he will likely be murdered in prison.

Lili will be thrown out of the hacienda and find herself alone, forced to fend and "do" for herself. She is educated, and will be able to find employment. Her punishment will be she will no longer be part of society. She will have to live with the knowledge Graciela killed her favorite child.

I think the loss of Juan will be enough punishment for Perla. I don't wish anything bad for Carito either although I will be very uncomfortable if she ends up with Miguel.

Fernanda has been selfish and self centered but has done nothing that she can't atone for. Tano seems too good an "end" for her but it appears it will go that way.

Urban, I like your idea about Brian leaving...I really could care less about him.


If Fernanda goes off to college, she'll be away from Tano. There's a good chance she'll meet someone else.

I have no idea how the writers ended the misery, but I know that the folks here all could have done it better. The whole show didn't make sense , so why should the ending.

I vote for prison for Grace because I would like to see her in orange (do they wear orange in Mexican women's prisons?) Without her perfect hair, makeup, clothes, and jewelry. She would have lots of time to remember slamming her sister in the head with that rock and those hot moments with Dave when she thought that she finally had it all. Plus, who would visit her?

I think that Perla will die protecting Carito. Juan might have a shootout with Gut in which he dies or they both die.

Lilian has been a very unpleasant character , but I don't think that she killed anyone . she is just a horrible human being. I don't think that she deserves a sweet , rich guy like Adolfo, but I am afraid she may get him due to the actual human sympathy she showed him after Erica died. I wish that she was cast out and on her own working in sine kind if service job with people bidding her around . Now that would be poetic justice . Buy some sturdy shoes, Lilian.

I also want Dave to get an anvil because he has been an ass in so many ways. He does not deserve Luci, and I am hoping that he doesn't get anyone else to join him in his pity party. However, I am very annoyed that he will probably marry Luci, pass along to her Grace's sexual tricks, and have several more babies. I would prefer Luci and Miguel ending up together giving Adolfo lots of "grandkids" because I think that Adolfo would be a wonderful grandpa.

Well, I'm between death & insanity for
Gracie.Shes clearly a major nutjob &
She murdered her sister and didn't even give it a second thought before she started tryin to feel up her bro inlaw. Luckily be kicked her out of the house. She must have really hated her sister to just bash her in the head and then leave her there to float
Down stream. This chick is coldblooded
She could go insane and then die. In the same creek that her sister floated
Down stream in.

Juan isn't to far from crashing into the cookcoo's nest. Forget flyin over it.I only see death for him.He'd want
To hurt what or who David loves most.
That would be his children and Luciana
In the process of him trying to hurt them he and David would fight to the death, Juan would end up dead,David would be wounded, holding luciana and his children, blood flowing all over the place. Juan's and some of his.

I said this before, lil would end up a baglady, threatening anybody who'd get
Close to her grocerycart full of junk. She Would scream at them in her snotty British accent "away with you, this my junk. Get Your own".

I really want to see Marta with Brian.
They can leave,and come back for the birth Of Lucy and Dave's twins. Ramons
Wife came back, she wants him back and
She gets him back.This is weird but
Stuff happens.

Clarita finally gets her mig, he and
Lucy remain Bffs. And he and Carito are godmom and goddad to the twins.I know Some of y'all hating that,but hey stuff Happens. This is a tn at times they are unpredictable. And so is some of our thinkin. Ain't this fun?Hahaha! Writing our own finishes.

Bobby will grow up to be a very good psychiatrist, so he will be able to tell the difference between liars and manipulators(like Tia & granny) from people that are being honest.And he'll
Marry Sommer.

Leon and Sonia are married, and about
To have triplets.

Maybe this next generation will be smarter than The present one. Here's hoping.

Thanks Julie. To everybody that celebrates, Have a happy Resurrection Sunday. H A P P Y ☆ E A S T E R.

I would truly like to see DisGrace become disfigured and in prison, like Nuria of AQNMD. She has done so much harm that if this were real Fernanda would need to check into a mental health facility after the big reveal. So, probably, would Lillian.

UA: Here's my Karmageddon List:

1.) Lillian AKA Deborah Sanders 2.0: I see her going to prison due to her involvement in criminal fraud, human trafficking of the immigrants & having Marcos & Luciana deported.

2.) Graciela: Her crime of whacking Lisa will be revealed in the Gran Final or before then.

3.) FerBrat: Her Karma is coming SOON!

4.) Juan Tellez: since he already whacked his wife many years ago, I wouldn't be surprised if he whacks Perla, who is becoming a liability & he needs to answer for Erika's death.

5.) Sonoma County Sheriff Brian Gutierrez: wondering how his Karma will be ?

6.) Perla: She's likely getting whacked. But how she gets whacked is the question.

7.) Carito: With Etika Ballesteros dead, she gets Miguel all to herself.

However, she's slowly heading towards redemption.

Nina: "Maybe this next generation will be smarter than The present one. Here's hoping." Ah, from your lips to God's ears. This Karmageddon post wasn't my doing, BTW, it's Urban's and thank you for it, Urban!

Steve, when did Juan whack his own wife? I don't remember anything about him having a wife at all.

Julie...Well, the previous two generations have set that smart bar pretty low.🐰🐰🐰🐣🐣

Nina, I like your thought that Ramon's wife might return.

I always thought Ramon was better than Marta deserved, but he loves her, plain and simple.

I'm not so sure that Brian is going to survive all this.

One of the first people I thought about this morning was Madeline. I imagine her quietly joining in our frustrations about this TN but enjoying all the comments and camaraderie...

To all of you and to all the voices that are silent but with us in spirit, God bless and Happy Easter.


Hoppy Easter Patio friends.

I don't really care how it is done, as long as Adolfo and Boob--eee attend a bunch of funerals.

David, pleeeease. I wouldn't get my shoes dirty saving him. The guy is actually too lazy to even THINK.

Anybody with below average intelligence could have figured it all out. I learned a loooong time ago that people will try to pass off REASONS as EXCUSES. Big difference. Nice try DaveBunny. Long before Lisa was Murdered, David could have nipped this shit in the bud and didn't.

Like I said, don't try to feed me a load of Excuses for your behavior doctored up to pass as Reasons. I didn't just fall off the tomato truck. If Luci is half as smart as she sometimes briefly appears, she will leave before the radius of insanity has expanded to include her. If not, the the Darwin award includes her too.

Adolfo deserves a smart and dedicated staff. To that end, I hope that Luci goes to LA and takes Susan, Leon, and Tano with her. Marta can stay behind to take care of "her children," and Ramon can stay with Marta because David will need someone competent around to make sure he doesn't accidentally plant corn all over the property or something dumb like that.

Sorry, I meant I hope Luci goes to *SB*.

Accidentally plant corn He He Ha Haw.


It is sad that our "galan" has gone from being too trusting and soft-hearted for his own good, to the pathetic jerky mess we see now.

There is no reason for Luci NOT to go to SB Vines.

Anything she assumed she had with her Mother does not exist and never did.

Knowing what she now does about the Mom makes the Mom flawed enough to leave behind.

Leon is starting his Grown-Up life with Sonia and will always be her Brother, but .................

She has carried David's water long enough, David needs to let DisGrimace do a couple things around the farm to earn her keep.

There is no "Erika Factor", unfortunately, now, and Luci has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt her altruistic motive in SB Vineyard.

Adolfo deserves more than one decent human in his life, and hopefully Luci would be a "Deep Woods Off" Lill repellant.


I'm sorry Urban, thank for this Armageddon page.
If I didn't like the idea of discrazy
Gettin her comeuppance, and seeing her
Face when Lucy gets Davy back,I'd like
To see Lucy and Miguel together again.
But mig's heart isn't there anymore,it
Is with erica. Wouldn't be cool if lil
Had a sister who she don't like, and she came to visit? and she got with adolfo? Right in front of lil?She lost gut and adolfo.HaH goody for her.

I want Adolfo to be with a decent woman. He deserves far better than Lillian, who would only be interested in his dinero while lusting after Brian's hot bod.

Carito looks like she will be a casualty of Juan's evil, along with Perla. Miguel deserves better than either of them.

UA: I'm hoping Carito makes it to the Gran Final.

Nina, that's an interesting idea for Lil to have a sister (let's imagine she's a nice person) who gets together with Adolfo!

He's so nice and so sad, it would be great to find someone for him. I don't especially want it to be Lilian unless Lilian undergoes a major transformation (which wouldn't be believable).

I've seen the final and some other spoilers so no comment on the possible karmageddons from me.

That said, it strikes me reading your summaries UA (and thank you for them!) that the villains on this show weren't so villainous in terms of things like body count. El Coyote and Mark are among the worst, and they already have gotten their just desserts. Of those remaining, I'd only count Gracie and Juan as real villains (and maybe Lilian but I think she's more a bitter person who is not above some crimes).

I agree that most of these "villains" have been petty compared to Grace and Juan (and a little bit Lil). Knowing that Grace killed Lisa will be anvil enough for most of these people.

I feel the worst for Bobby because he held out the longest. In fact, at first he even resisted Grace. He's done nothing wrong except be a little spoiled and whiny, which is what he was taught. Seeing him and Fer suffer will be an additional anvil for David.

I will tell you what these writers are going to do to us.

We will all be huddled around our TVs on the patio wondering how long until something happens. Fer and Boo-eee will still be brats, Luci will be crying over Dave, David and Grace will be in the wine cellar rocking a barrel of wine, and NoJuan will be rolling out from between the sheets with Perla and plotting what he can do to David.

Then up from the bottom of the screen will roll F I N.

And it will be over.

They will not do anything.

Kirby, I feel like there's a 50% chance that your ending will be better than the actual one.

I didn't see the awards last night either. And I'm hoping that peice you
Saw miss Cynthia, isn't true, but if it is :( I had hopes for gut n marta.O
We'll can't always have what you want.
Especially in soap/tns.
I looked ahead too but will not comment on it.I'm interested in seeing what leads up to what I saw.

David is one of the dumbest galans I've ever seen. I hope the writers do
Something to smarten him up. Hes not
Even tryin to see past the surfice of
All the crap that lil & Grace has hand
Fed him for the past 2 months.And LUCY is Right, he will not listen. And because Of his stubbornness hes into sex-capades all over the house with Gracie. Yuck yuck, and more yuck!!!

Karma will get everybody she's suppose
To Get.We just gotta wait it out. Ooo boy.

Karma doesn't always get everyone. If you were around for MCET you might feel as I did that Isabella didn't get what should have been coming to her. She did a number of things that should have gotten her at least a dozen years in the slammer but the leads decided to forgive and not press charges against her.

I was boiling mad over this. I wonder how viewers in Mexico felt about it.

I am sorry I didn’t have the chance to chime in on this discussion this weekend. But between taxes, Easter, and a daughter in law who will be giving birth any day now, I didn’t have a chance to weigh in on any of this.

I did see the awards last night. I was happy to see Juan Vidal win his award, for Veronica Jáspeado getting her award for “Sonia” and for Azela Robinson for her portrayal of Lilian. Even though this novela seems to have some poor plot writing, these actors and actresses have done a very good job of overcoming that and making the characters really stand out and shine.

I wonder what happens to Adolfo in this novela. I am positive he doesn't end up with Lilian either. His character is really a nice guy who needs to be with a woman who appreciates him. There just doesn't seem to be another female character around to pair him up with.

I am sure Carito will make it through the end, or at least I hope so. The one to watch for probably is Perla. To me, she seems to be in the most danger, either from Juan himself and a meltdown or being in the crossfire of this human trafficking trade that Juan is starting to do again.

I hate to see characters die unless they are really bad. So I truly hope that DisGrace dies an awful kind of death that is painful because she deserves it!

I know some found offense in the fact being overweight and working as a Zoo Custodian was portrayed as a punishment.

Urban, thank you, this is always fun. Most ALL the anvils are properly placed and we await the great hand in the sky to cut the ropes.

I only wish you had added DudVeed to the list of characters needing a Karmageddon and a good sized anvil. Especially after Monday's episode. His treatment of Luci has, throughout, been condescending, arrogant, selfish, and lacking in love, companionship and support (not that Luci was all warm and fuzzy herself). He should have recognized from the very beginning he was dealing with a very young girl, lacking experience, but full of spunk and high spirits who has a crush on him. He killed all that. He needs an anvil.

After keeping Gracie away from him physically and emotionally with great resolve, he collapsed and fell into her bucket of slime, based on Faaaaamily Togetherness--which seems to consist of popcorn and a DVD of Boobee's choice.

How dare he formalize his relationship with DisGracefulness, giving him permission to fornicate like a dog smelling a bitch in heat for the good of the Faaaaamily and turn around and tell Luci he doesn't want her to leave the Vineyard. What does he want her for? Not for traditional Faaaamily values, certainly. Or does he just need her expertise?

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